As I heard a wise man once say: "Widow is the only hero in the entire game which every other character has a voice line dedicated to announcing her presence."
@@kalebk9595 No. It's only for Widow. I think the reason for that is because Hanzo and Ashe aren't "true" snipers like Widow is. Sure, they're long-range with high damage capabilities, but not to Widow's level. Hanzo and Ashe aren't nearly as deadly from 30 meters away as Widow is.
Widow is literally the 1 reason I refuse to climb in this game, love it to death but getting one tapped even once or twice by even a horrible widow that got lucky (don’t even mention the server admins) sucks the fun out of the entire match. You play tank and your team expects you to dive her, You play DPS and your team expects you to counter swap her, You play healer and your team gets dropped like a sad sack of potatoes while you watch in abject horror as there’s nothing you can do but try to dive as Lucio as the third DPS in the lobby.
I agree mostly. Kiriko is another option on support. you have to take unexpected angles but it does work. but overall I'd rather the game have less 1 shot kills in general
You can throw Zen in the mix too then but projectile vs hitscan at the ranges widow can take really blow, I know you’re supposed to wait for the shot then peek but at any ping higher than 100 she’ll have full charge before it even registers that she’s venerable for 1 full second. Not to mention if it’s a good widow it’s likely they’ll have an off healer to pocket if she’s server admining, or in that one shot took out a dps or support already.
So are you a support, tank or dps lmao? Looks like you're dabbling in three instead of just comitting to one wondering why you can't climb. Dive tanks should dive the widow that's their job (should be diving the backline in general, as a doom main I have no problem with it. It's literally the job of a dive tank to kill squishies and next to zen she's the easiest squishy of them all), DPS's should counter widow if they can she's too easy to counter to just ignore her and if none of the aforementioned is happening then you deserve to lose, there are even supports that hard counter her
@dddd-uk4vn there are no support hard counters to widow. There are soft counters though. A hard counter would mean that character would almost always win in a fight between evenly matched players. I'd call Kiri, zen and certain styles of Lucio play a soft counter. A hard counter would be more like what happens when a dive tank lands on widow
An immediate, untelegraphed oneshot in a game where ~80% of fights are decided by the first kill and ~60% of games by the first fight is insane. (offician OWL stats) Widow is not the only offender, but the worst one.
I think a fun widow change could be to give away her location (with a similar visual to the post shot trail you see with a near miss) when she holds a full charge for more than x amount of time. It would give players a way to react before getting sniped if the enemy widow if just hard camping one sightline with a full charge waiting for some bozo to walk around the corner. And it would punish widow players for charging up without a target in mind so they would have to be more decisive and not hold their charges waiting for something to come to them
One shot at a range that isn't interactive doesn't exist on any other hero. The higher rank you go, the more likely you are to auto lose to a good widow. She doesn't fit the game at all. No other character forces your entire team to play a certain way. You always have to use cover, but someone has to leave cover to touch point
4:08 they're right about mercy being unimpactful as you get to higher levels but they were entirely wrong with their suggestions Moira and Lucio are far better suggestions if you want less aiming.
@Absorbant if you're not playing frogger style then most of the shooting you'll do I spamming from a distance with most of the value that you generate being from correct use of your aura and significantly less from aim
The problem I've always had with Widow is the feeling of getting CoD style quick scoped. I should not be getting 1 shot by a less than half charged shot. If it was mandatory to be full charge to 1 shot, I would not mind the 1 shot since, at that point, that widow player had to have zeroed me in for at least 2-3s.
That Mercy one trick guy kinda sounds like they were just venting since all they did was shove win rates in our faces. They could play brig or moira if their aim sucks and get just as much value if not more since you (the individual)can provide impact instead of probably what they're doing which is holding their stick behind a dps or tank and thinking "golly is way better then bap or ana play".
Exactly. If aim was a problem he should have gone Moira or Brig. mercy is so annoying to have on your team now. Especially since she’s not even good at pocketing Pharrah anymore.
it does come across as venty, but i think his overall point is correct. people heavily exaggerate the importance of meta picks in lower ranks, and tbh by lower ranks its pretty much anything below GM. its far far more important to play a hero youre comfortable with, synergizes well with the comp or map, then picking the most meta option. i agree mercy is one of the weaker supports but people HEAVILY exaggerate how bad she is. she perfectly suffices as a support for 99% of the playerbase.
@@SoloKrypton if they deserve their rank a tracer or a Genji should be able to counter her just fine. But it isn’t just them. Reaper is pretty good against widow too. Kiriko is also great against him. Lucio. An Ana with good timing as well. Dva, Winston, etc. she gets flanked she’s dead unless you move like a bot.
I feel like calling it "Movement creep" suggests that it was unintentional. With damage and healing it makes sense, because constant minor buffs caused the overall values to creep up over time. But movement feels like it was very intentionally injected into the game in order to make it feel faster
The comment saying "Some of the common Overwatch hero advice seems poorly rooted in reality..." felt very grounded to me. I've been trying to play a lot of Widowmaker in the my Bronze 1 - Silver 5 games, and it's clear that low rank players don't really know how to play with a Widow on their team. Once I gave up on my forcing Widow every other game (I just wanted to learn her on the maps she's good on), I started picking more to suit our team comp, and my win rate went way up.
Hot take; we need an alternative hero to mercy. While mercy is a pretty awesome hero with great movement and some cool abilities, and incredible character design, I wish we had more flying supports (we almost got there with Juno) simply due to boredom. I personally get tired of seeing a mercy every game (which is why that one guy was comparing her higher win rates, she is simply picked more often) and wish we didn’t have to focus on killing her first. Let me shoot at another character model, I’m tired of shooting the moth only for her to fly across the map and heal up before you can get her back in LOS. The only counter is to pressure her first, which almost always leads to picking a hitscan or hard diving her. It’s pretty one dimensional. I like the character, I just wish we had more variety of flying supports to fulfill that player fantasy but also spice it up for dps players tired of shooting a cute lil bug.
You know what's funny The same people complaining about hanzo pre s9 said '' Atleast Widow needs aim, Hanzo just shoots log'' Everyone one saying how widow was more manageable then hanzo. Then they nerfed him, Character literally went to shit and still is C tier even today after the OS buff. I've Said many times stop killing Characters identity and buff the counters. Revert Sombra, Bring Back Hanzo with Wall climb shot and chargerate, 28 Shuriken Genji and you will see Widow Fall off oh and nerf Every Hitscans Bullet Size to pre S9 Dumbest Change Ever.
revert the entirety of the s9 changes. I hate how almost every established breakpoint in the game was ruined, and theyve continued to just randomly buff characters' damage and healing output anyway so there was really no point. This balance team just has an excess of chromosomes and there's nothing they can do to fix their mistakes at this point without starting over
@@tspooner01 and if they start over you all will rush online and start making comments that "why did they do it in the first place" meanwhile you req the revert
I just wondered what would happen if we were somewhere able to make her hitscan shot a projectile after it goes a certain amount of distance meaning say if you’re out of her own shot range she should have to guide her shots a bit because distance
I've been talking about a single widow change with my friends that would make it easier to play against her just decrease the speed of the charge scoped shot. The charge time is so short it may as well not exist
275 is smart. As a ball, half th3 characters in the game are difficult to get value one, but also don't stop me from going and doing my thing elsewhere. That is the perfect counter.
I am of two minds on the Classic mode. On one hand, it is nice, especially for newer players, to experience just how far the game has come. On the other hand, it has been over eight YEARS since the game released and it is a live service game. It damn well better have improved in that time or no one would still be playing it. I also don't think Classic mode actually addresses the 5v5 versus 6v6 debate because it doesn't compare the pros and cons of both modes fully. Especially when it comes to 6v6. It is an interesting one week experiment, but I feel like like it is getting dragged out and no longer productive.
I always wondered if making her headshot damage have a base damage and the rest be like damage over time, for example : 190instant, 60DOT (like her venom mine has DOT) in like a 1-3second duration idk. The idea is to still be able to kill outliers who don’t have any healing out on them in the moment so Lucio or brig would play better against widow by simply group healing preventing a quick kill by widow. I haven’t thought too hard about the numbers, just basic idea of implementing more of her spider venom in a way that also relieves the frustration of one shot without just a damage number nerf to her. I think the damage over time should be fast enough that it’s a threat but allow reaction speed to show through from healers.
Is widow annoying to play against? Yeah. Is it frustrating when you die from a character who can hide 100 miles across the map? Yeah. Is it difficult to counter her without a mirror? Yeah. Would I prefer if she got nerfed? Yeah. I think the real problem here, at least for the last several weeks, is that she got the recent mythic skin, so everyone wants to flex their new purchase. Say Zarya gets the new mythic next season, everyone will start complaining about her next whether she’s broken or not. The real kicker is that she’s fine right now, but they’d give her a micro buff to incentivize the skin purchase.
I warned yall who wanted sombra to get nerfed, I warned yall and said that if she gets nerfed. Widow will DOMINATE, and what happened? Reap what you sow
I’ve suggested this rework for Widow before, but I feel like her headshot is a part of her identity so straight up removing it wouldn’t do any good. I feel like she needs a passive that enables her to do more headshot damage on targets she can see through walls, so that way when you get hit by a venom mine or her ult, you know there’s a condition in which you CAN get one shot, but it’s on you to use your discretion. Also give her multiple venom mines lol.
That's what the idiots who cried for Sombra nerfs get. With her out of the equation, the only counterplay against a good Widow is a better one. But she is a character that takes actual skill, so you won't have one. I doubt that Blizzard will do anything, because her win rate will remain low, no matter how oppressive she gets.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness Fair enough, but I think having an entire characters role being to harass a Widowmaker is a band aid solution to a larger issue with the character. The entire game revolves around out playing the other team, whether it be by utility use or focusing a certain target. When you have a character that can instantaneously turn a 5v5 into a 5v4, the fight is immediately lost for the opposing team. Its a relic of 2016-18 OW1 and needs adjusting to make it more readable.
I think the rest of the DPS roster being ass has catapulted Widow into the best dps over the past couple seasons. All the other rising dps characters like reaper and ashe (outside of some shotgun pellet changes, ashe got hs damage nerfed because mercy boost got buffed) didn't get major buffst buffs, but didn't get nerfed into the ground. There's so much sustain and mitigation in the game that dps feels like you're shoehorned into picking character that can do just enough to survive. It's why I swapped to playing support since ow 2 came out, there's so much more impact on the game because I can dps and give heals.
Im pretty sure the movement speed in ow 2 is faster by default (I remember while some streamers tested the beta that said that everything is faster and ow 1 feels slow when they go back) + addtional heroes that give speed boosts (kiriko ult, junkerqueen shout, juno ring, zen during ult, cass during ult)
Base move speed is the exact same. Just a lot of things were clunkier when Overwatch released (a lot of heroes would lock your aim for longer than they do now, for example.) You might be thinking of the first DPS passive, which gave all DPS heroes a slightly increased movespeed (which was the same move speed Genji and Tracer have always had by default). It just feels a lot faster because it is more fluid and with one less tank in the fray that's a lot less health to go through to end a team fight.
In Classic her rifle charges faster, and the recoil is normal (like with Ana), and not the huge, insanely long, and broken one we have in OW2, that throws of your vertical aim constantly, and returns to a random vertical position based on how much you move your mouse after the shot.
base movement speed has been increased to everyone but genji and tracer. Genji and Tracer were faster than the rest of the roster, but that's been changed in OW2
That dude is so wrong about mercy. If he wants to win now then pick miora mercy or lifeweaver and get stuck in silver/gold If you want to actually improve and climb over months and months slowly then actually get better at the game and don’t shit on people for saying the truth that Ana and bap are better long term He simply has a skill issue and doesn’t wanna dedicate time to improve aim and positioning for them
Ya fr. Saying “my aim sucks” is okay but then saying “therefore I’m going to play mercy” is dumb. Play mercy and your aim will continue to suck lol. Play who you want but let’s not act like mercy is doing more than Ana
They just need to revert hitbox for her gun to 0.00 like how they reverted hanzo hitbox so they kept one shot. That is a big big reason widow is so prevalent and why is feels like every widow is a god. Just revert hitbox back to pinpoint and then see how it feels from there
Yes, since forever. Since based design from TF2 Sniper. It’s just been amplified because they gave her a mythic skin for this season in a format this stale.
About open Q queue times, in America if it’s midday it’s faster than all roles role Q, but at night it was almost impossible to find a game. I do think the system now is kinda worse though, you soloQ into unbalanced games and Iv gotten 6 mmr for a win as a soloQer cuz the win was expected
The Mercy One is just someone using Numbers without any knowledge, for example on league some characters are balances to have under 50% wr, because they are hard and players that cant play them Will bring The winrate naturally down, if Ana or Baptiste had The same wr as Mercy it would just mean ubron5 need to know how to play them to win, ence they are too strong
Most people who play this game are either plat and lower or playing unranked for fun, Widow is just not fun to play against, no one cares if she’s played in top 500 or not and if they think she’s broken or not, it’s just extremely unfun to play against in the maps where she works on Personally I know how to deal with widow as a support or dps, but you can’t expect everyone to know, especially when the widow is good, they either keep getting farmed or change to widow and try to match the enemy widow but they’re not as good so you play -1 dps the whole game against a good widow + her team. IMO one taps in general are unfun, log Hanzo was unfun, Widow is unfun.
Reduce widow headshot multiplier but then increase it during sight. Sight becomes extra deadly but widow becomes less deadly otherwise. might need some cost changes and maybe no longer buff the team though
Survasa is pretty good. New Junk City is the worst map in the game. New Junk City is tighter with a lot more choke points. That translates to being very defender heavy where is you cap first it's way easier to hold the point and it *strongly* favors brawls/AOE heroes. This makes it feel more luck based than other maps, especially when solo queing, as in, if their team picks Junkrat or similar heroes, the odds of you getting steam rolled are pretty high.
4:17 he asked about the echo chamber to someone in the echo chamber. Win rate does not lie. It is literally the only metric that matters when discussing hero strength. This guy has no idea what he is talking about.
It would not. Most times you already are seeing the widow and know where she is. This laser pointer/sniper glint argument has been debunked so many times. What she needs is a wayy longer charge up, 200 damage headshot and 50 damage poison to kill.
Make Illari a threat to Widow again by making her viable as a sniper like she was at launch. She's terrible right now, make her A tier like practically every other support and a Widow threat. She won't be oppressive as long as you keep her Ultimate where it is now. It was oppressive at launch and it's pretty crap now.
Illari isn't even that bad, her pylon is one of the worst designed and obnoxious things in the game. Then she has coach gun 2.0. Don't buff one annoying poke hero to shut down the most annoying one. Just have them both not be great.
@@SpeedKing.. Maybe because it's a braindead 100% uptime auto locking (to lowest hp target) mercy beam which basically makes it a 5.5 v 5 and if the illari has common geometry understanding and map knowledge will place it in places that are uncontestable and require full cooldown cycles or engages to even attempt to destroy which put you at risk of dying. For example, on tracer you need to blink in and kill it while getting shot at and booped etc. Which almost always forces recall which has basically the same cooldown as pylon if you do even manage to destroy it. It's not like sleep dart or suzu where atleast you can force it because remember 100% uptime. Also, you can't duel her on most dps in the game. Also, I believe it is 125 hp. Oh yeah, and if illari anticipates the push she just places it further back for free.
Hot take is, Widow has always been an issue and the character as it is should not exist in Overwatch. I saw this suggestion recently, but simply making it to where she cannot one shot kill you across the map (AKA use her sniper) unless she ults is the only way I could see her sniper identity remaining without being a fundamental issue. Even in lore and cinematics, she only shoots her sniper while her infrasights are up, otherwise she blasts people with the SMG.
Sometimes this is y i dont like ow help or training videos its always pick meta with high skill ceiling when most players never gonna get good or have fun playing those characters
I actually have the opposite problem with the 2016 widow. I hit so many shots on current patch but in the original patch it’s so clunky and slow I can’t hit too many shots. Not that I hit none of them, I have had several classic games where I just still dominate regardless but they are fewer than I’m used to.
I legitimately don’t understand why anyone complains about wide matches. It usually means some players on both teams are higher and some on both teams are lower. So for those lower players, yes you’re going to struggle a bit against the better opponents, however this is a great opportunity to learn and get better. Bad plays won’t be rewarded just because the enemy is bad too, so you learn what actually works. For the better players I can understand it being frustrating when your team doesn’t know what to do, but just think of it as an opportunity to bring these players up which is good for everyone. If more players are competent and end up improving, your queue times get better, and wide matches more rare. I would legitimately love to just be dropped into grandmasters, and be punished down to my proper rank, I think it would make my actual rank higher than it is trying to fight my way up from the bottom. Just to prove a point, I opened an alt account, and got placed in high gold, ended up being able to impact the games pretty well, and climbed into mid plat. My main account has struggled to get out of mid silver.
Because I always end up being the player with the highest rank or close to it. I don't find it fun queuing into comp just to find some idiot Gold player on my team thinking he can play Ball in a low diamond/high plat lobby. I shouldn't be suffering because someone cannot play the game, and it certainly isn't my job to "teach" them.
@@ragerasse7616 it is actually not my job to play with smurfs who can’t hack it at their own rank, but I don’t cry about it. Lmao, you sound like the babies on Reddit making believe the game is targeting you personally with leavers and mismatches. Btw, It’s a public, online, team based game little bro; it is actually your job to help whoever is on your team and for them to help you learn, that’s how this works, it’s how all team based activities work.
@@Matthiass721 Who said it was your job? Smurfs are just as bad as wide matchmaking players. And no, it isn't my job to carry the bad players. Yes, I work as a team, but there is so much you can do as a team if you have someone like Kobe, Lebron, and then some fool Matthiass721. That team is going to lose every time.
Overwatch players are to entitled, they got to used to op characters and abilities so when the idea of changing a character comes up they cannot fathom changing them because they are so used to getting cheap and easy kills/wins. Identity doesn't mean you can't change a character.
Widow rework: Scoped shots now deal 90 damage with a 30 damage of 2 seconds poision effect that also reveals them for the duration. Headshots increase both instant damage and poison damage by 2.5X (dealing 225 immediately and 75 over 2 seconds). This keeps her lethality of one-shots with more chance for people to fight against it.
It's like when one hunts an animal until extinction. When its removed from the environment it allows certain predators to rise and dominate. This is why old Sombra should be appreciated.
If they can’t think of an actual creative solution for widow, then they should just reduce her health by 25. Yes, she will be easy to kill, but that’s the point. Widow doesn’t need health to perform her function of one shotting across the map, and she shouldn’t be able to get high value if people counter swap. It’s okay if she’s forced to swap in order to get value sometimes; too many people hate her.
Before I watch this video I'll give my opinions on Widow right now. Yes she has the most egregious one-shot in the game, but she trades it off with massive personal vulnerability. She's basically a sitting duck while shooting, has 50 less health than most of the other heroes, and is basically useless in close range unless she hits a godlike shot. Even if she can line up the godlike close range shot consistently, if you're already in her face, you should be able to blow her up before she can even charge the shot enough as most other DPS. Hanzo has a one-shot too, but his one-shot is much harder to hit; and therefore Hanzo has a lot more mobility while shooting, and has a higher rate of fire. I will add an "edit" notice below with my new thoughts if this video changes my mind.
I hate the argument of she has less health or just dive her. Sure in concept that works but in practice that’s not how the game works. She has a grapple and 9/10 has a support that can save her life. If your team isn’t running a coordinated dive, which they won’t be unless ur gm or higher usually that isn’t gonna work. As a tank you can’t solo dive her or else your team is left exposed to the rest of the team. The only other option is to mirror her and just be better. The simple solution is to add a sniper glint and a laser on where she is aiming.
From the comments, it seems like people just instantly mald and start crying when they see an enemy widow. I’m gonna have to start maining her now if it’s that crazy. I play Ana anyways, should be easy enough.
I am shocked to see so many people suddenly complaining about Widow. I have played since 2016. Is it all new OW2 players complaining about her??? It's like they've never seen a sniper in an fps before.
Many Overwatch players have little or zero shooter gamesense. The amount of plat or even diamond players who can't figure out angles, sightlines, and soundcues is astounding. I was never good at Counterstrike, but coming from a more "pure" shooter gave me a huge tactical advantage because I understood concepts like cover, proper peeking, audio cues, baiting shots, etc.
Overwatch is not a typical FPS. The one-shot sniper gimmick has never been engaging or healthy for the game. It was tolerable pre hitbox change, not so much anymore. People are complaining about it more now because with the sombra nerfs and the new mythic, you're just seeing more widow.
I swear if I hear someone ask a question then karq just victim blames them then I'm done with this series. You always either blame or make up a scenario which completely discourages the question
Nah widow is not that big of a problem, a good sombra always win, a good genji always win, a good hanzo aways win. But if your team is bad, well it’s over
Missed those days when widow is a really fun hero to play, either you 1 shot 1 kill or you just suck at aiming and missed basically everything other than a deflecting Genji 😂
Movement creep made the game worse. There's no room to punish mistakes anymore on characters that aren't designed to put themselves at risk and classic shows this like crazy. At least Genji needed to risk himself to get value when he was the only mobile hero.
That'd just make the hero not fun to play as. They did the same thing to Hanzo and he was so bad and frustrating to play as they just rolled him back. It's more of an issue with flank routes (or lack thereof) in some maps.
As I heard a wise man once say:
"Widow is the only hero in the entire game which every other character has a voice line dedicated to announcing her presence."
Literally this
Tbf, if there was another ACTUAL sniper in the game, it would apply to them as well
Do the sniper voice lines also play for Ashe and Hanzo? I thought they did.
@@kalebk9595 No. It's only for Widow. I think the reason for that is because Hanzo and Ashe aren't "true" snipers like Widow is. Sure, they're long-range with high damage capabilities, but not to Widow's level. Hanzo and Ashe aren't nearly as deadly from 30 meters away as Widow is.
@@kalebk9595 they do i belive
"Ahh it's always the widow"
That's a voice line sojourn has
The fact she predict 1 year ago...
Give Widow Tracer HP, fuck it.
Zen classic HP
thats the thing tho, u can make her literally have 20hp, but if the widow is him. Its still holds the game hostage
@@slump8665not with 20hp bro lol a helix sent dead at her body ending her and that isn't as hard to do as people think
Widow is literally the 1 reason I refuse to climb in this game, love it to death but getting one tapped even once or twice by even a horrible widow that got lucky (don’t even mention the server admins) sucks the fun out of the entire match. You play tank and your team expects you to dive her, You play DPS and your team expects you to counter swap her, You play healer and your team gets dropped like a sad sack of potatoes while you watch in abject horror as there’s nothing you can do but try to dive as Lucio as the third DPS in the lobby.
I agree mostly. Kiriko is another option on support. you have to take unexpected angles but it does work. but overall I'd rather the game have less 1 shot kills in general
You can throw Zen in the mix too then but projectile vs hitscan at the ranges widow can take really blow, I know you’re supposed to wait for the shot then peek but at any ping higher than 100 she’ll have full charge before it even registers that she’s venerable for 1 full second. Not to mention if it’s a good widow it’s likely they’ll have an off healer to pocket if she’s server admining, or in that one shot took out a dps or support already.
So are you a support, tank or dps lmao? Looks like you're dabbling in three instead of just comitting to one wondering why you can't climb. Dive tanks should dive the widow that's their job (should be diving the backline in general, as a doom main I have no problem with it. It's literally the job of a dive tank to kill squishies and next to zen she's the easiest squishy of them all), DPS's should counter widow if they can she's too easy to counter to just ignore her and if none of the aforementioned is happening then you deserve to lose, there are even supports that hard counter her
Drama queen
@dddd-uk4vn there are no support hard counters to widow. There are soft counters though. A hard counter would mean that character would almost always win in a fight between evenly matched players. I'd call Kiri, zen and certain styles of Lucio play a soft counter. A hard counter would be more like what happens when a dive tank lands on widow
Widow has always been a problem.
skill issue
@valentinecult Elaborate.
Not really shes being played this season more than ever.
Except now she has no counter play.
Agreed. Widow is a skill check for the widow player. This runs counter to Moira who is a skill check for who Moira is fighting.
An immediate, untelegraphed oneshot in a game where ~80% of fights are decided by the first kill and ~60% of games by the first fight is insane. (offician OWL stats)
Widow is not the only offender, but the worst one.
why is karq looking directly into my soul
He's reading off of a script
It's his now. Your soul belongs to him
You know what you did
I think a fun widow change could be to give away her location (with a similar visual to the post shot trail you see with a near miss) when she holds a full charge for more than x amount of time. It would give players a way to react before getting sniped if the enemy widow if just hard camping one sightline with a full charge waiting for some bozo to walk around the corner. And it would punish widow players for charging up without a target in mind so they would have to be more decisive and not hold their charges waiting for something to come to them
Like a laser sight indicator, but only if she holds her charge for too long
Yeah why tf doesn't she have a glare on her optic, or some kind of laser sight?
One shot at a range that isn't interactive doesn't exist on any other hero. The higher rank you go, the more likely you are to auto lose to a good widow. She doesn't fit the game at all. No other character forces your entire team to play a certain way. You always have to use cover, but someone has to leave cover to touch point
In classic mode I de-meched a Dva with two shots from across the map on Ilios Ruins and felt so bad about it that I had to apologize in game chat
4:08 they're right about mercy being unimpactful as you get to higher levels but they were entirely wrong with their suggestions
Moira and Lucio are far better suggestions if you want less aiming.
Lucio is hard asf to aim with what are you on?
@Absorbant if you're not playing frogger style then most of the shooting you'll do I spamming from a distance with most of the value that you generate being from correct use of your aura and significantly less from aim
The problem I've always had with Widow is the feeling of getting CoD style quick scoped. I should not be getting 1 shot by a less than half charged shot. If it was mandatory to be full charge to 1 shot, I would not mind the 1 shot since, at that point, that widow player had to have zeroed me in for at least 2-3s.
Another round of how much KarQ can I listen to before Reddit tilts me and I click off the video. KarQ is a hero for answering these people.
That Mercy one trick guy kinda sounds like they were just venting since all they did was shove win rates in our faces. They could play brig or moira if their aim sucks and get just as much value if not more since you (the individual)can provide impact instead of probably what they're doing which is holding their stick behind a dps or tank and thinking "golly is way better then bap or ana play".
Exactly. If aim was a problem he should have gone Moira or Brig. mercy is so annoying to have on your team now. Especially since she’s not even good at pocketing Pharrah anymore.
What exactly was wrong with the winrates they mentioned though?
it does come across as venty, but i think his overall point is correct. people heavily exaggerate the importance of meta picks in lower ranks, and tbh by lower ranks its pretty much anything below GM. its far far more important to play a hero youre comfortable with, synergizes well with the comp or map, then picking the most meta option. i agree mercy is one of the weaker supports but people HEAVILY exaggerate how bad she is. she perfectly suffices as a support for 99% of the playerbase.
Widow has always been a problem;
We didn't notice her coz Sombra kept her in check.
Good luck now.
Many other characters can keep her in check, the meta just favors her right now.
@@SocialExperiment232 None as effectively and properly as Sombra.
I can't see Tracer or Genji scaring widow
Even before Sombra was even in the game?
@@SoloKrypton if they deserve their rank a tracer or a Genji should be able to counter her just fine. But it isn’t just them. Reaper is pretty good against widow too. Kiriko is also great against him. Lucio. An Ana with good timing as well. Dva, Winston, etc. she gets flanked she’s dead unless you move like a bot.
@@SocialExperiment232you gotta be plastic rank on god😂
Also classic gamemode has no MMR based matchmaking, so if you are a good player, the majority of the opponents will feel easy to you.
That doesn't explain why I'm winning more playing dps in classic than as a bronze dps is comp and quickplay
@@jfp4lifeeasy. Skill issue.
I feel like calling it "Movement creep" suggests that it was unintentional.
With damage and healing it makes sense, because constant minor buffs caused the overall values to creep up over time.
But movement feels like it was very intentionally injected into the game in order to make it feel faster
The comment saying "Some of the common Overwatch hero advice seems poorly rooted in reality..." felt very grounded to me. I've been trying to play a lot of Widowmaker in the my Bronze 1 - Silver 5 games, and it's clear that low rank players don't really know how to play with a Widow on their team. Once I gave up on my forcing Widow every other game (I just wanted to learn her on the maps she's good on), I started picking more to suit our team comp, and my win rate went way up.
Hot take; we need an alternative hero to mercy. While mercy is a pretty awesome hero with great movement and some cool abilities, and incredible character design, I wish we had more flying supports (we almost got there with Juno) simply due to boredom. I personally get tired of seeing a mercy every game (which is why that one guy was comparing her higher win rates, she is simply picked more often) and wish we didn’t have to focus on killing her first. Let me shoot at another character model, I’m tired of shooting the moth only for her to fly across the map and heal up before you can get her back in LOS. The only counter is to pressure her first, which almost always leads to picking a hitscan or hard diving her. It’s pretty one dimensional.
I like the character, I just wish we had more variety of flying supports to fulfill that player fantasy but also spice it up for dps players tired of shooting a cute lil bug.
One of the things is, if every single game has a kiriko, or bap, or ana, the win rate will never be more than %50
THANK YOU, people don’t realize how skewed win rates are because people default
You know what's funny The same people complaining about hanzo pre s9 said '' Atleast Widow needs aim, Hanzo just shoots log'' Everyone one saying how widow was more manageable then hanzo. Then they nerfed him, Character literally went to shit and still is C tier even today after the OS buff.
I've Said many times stop killing Characters identity and buff the counters. Revert Sombra, Bring Back Hanzo with Wall climb shot and chargerate, 28 Shuriken Genji and you will see Widow Fall off
oh and nerf Every Hitscans Bullet Size to pre S9 Dumbest Change Ever.
revert the entirety of the s9 changes. I hate how almost every established breakpoint in the game was ruined, and theyve continued to just randomly buff characters' damage and healing output anyway so there was really no point. This balance team just has an excess of chromosomes and there's nothing they can do to fix their mistakes at this point without starting over
@@tspooner01 and if they start over you all will rush online and start making comments that "why did they do it in the first place" meanwhile you req the revert
@@Bad3abdul dude what are you even trying to say?
Really hope with widow being more in the spotlight that they come up with something that satisfies all parties.
I just wondered what would happen if we were somewhere able to make her hitscan shot a projectile after it goes a certain amount of distance meaning say if you’re out of her own shot range she should have to guide her shots a bit because distance
I've been talking about a single widow change with my friends that would make it easier to play against her just decrease the speed of the charge scoped shot. The charge time is so short it may as well not exist
People will swap to Bap and Ana to try and salvage losses as well because their utility has that potential. Even when they aren't that good with them.
275 is smart. As a ball, half th3 characters in the game are difficult to get value one, but also don't stop me from going and doing my thing elsewhere. That is the perfect counter.
Lol what a wild post, "I'm bad at the game and everyone else is wrong because i refuse to learn anything"
I am of two minds on the Classic mode. On one hand, it is nice, especially for newer players, to experience just how far the game has come. On the other hand, it has been over eight YEARS since the game released and it is a live service game. It damn well better have improved in that time or no one would still be playing it. I also don't think Classic mode actually addresses the 5v5 versus 6v6 debate because it doesn't compare the pros and cons of both modes fully. Especially when it comes to 6v6. It is an interesting one week experiment, but I feel like like it is getting dragged out and no longer productive.
I just have more fun on it than on ow2 tbh
I only hate new junk city first point. The rest is decent
widow just makes the game less fun with her presence
So the game's been unfun since 2016?
@@RacingSnails64yep
@@RacingSnails64matches with widow in either teams have been less fun since 2016, yeah. Bro thought he was slick lol
@@RacingSnails64 When people play widow yeah
I always wondered if making her headshot damage have a base damage and the rest be like damage over time, for example : 190instant, 60DOT (like her venom mine has DOT) in like a 1-3second duration idk. The idea is to still be able to kill outliers who don’t have any healing out on them in the moment so Lucio or brig would play better against widow by simply group healing preventing a quick kill by widow. I haven’t thought too hard about the numbers, just basic idea of implementing more of her spider venom in a way that also relieves the frustration of one shot without just a damage number nerf to her. I think the damage over time should be fast enough that it’s a threat but allow reaction speed to show through from healers.
Is widow annoying to play against? Yeah. Is it frustrating when you die from a character who can hide 100 miles across the map? Yeah. Is it difficult to counter her without a mirror? Yeah. Would I prefer if she got nerfed? Yeah. I think the real problem here, at least for the last several weeks, is that she got the recent mythic skin, so everyone wants to flex their new purchase. Say Zarya gets the new mythic next season, everyone will start complaining about her next whether she’s broken or not. The real kicker is that she’s fine right now, but they’d give her a micro buff to incentivize the skin purchase.
I warned yall who wanted sombra to get nerfed, I warned yall and said that if she gets nerfed. Widow will DOMINATE, and what happened? Reap what you sow
I’ve suggested this rework for Widow before, but I feel like her headshot is a part of her identity so straight up removing it wouldn’t do any good. I feel like she needs a passive that enables her to do more headshot damage on targets she can see through walls, so that way when you get hit by a venom mine or her ult, you know there’s a condition in which you CAN get one shot, but it’s on you to use your discretion. Also give her multiple venom mines lol.
That's what the idiots who cried for Sombra nerfs get. With her out of the equation, the only counterplay against a good Widow is a better one. But she is a character that takes actual skill, so you won't have one. I doubt that Blizzard will do anything, because her win rate will remain low, no matter how oppressive she gets.
That's the worst idea I've ever heard
@@EvanOfTheDarkness Fair enough, but I think having an entire characters role being to harass a Widowmaker is a band aid solution to a larger issue with the character. The entire game revolves around out playing the other team, whether it be by utility use or focusing a certain target. When you have a character that can instantaneously turn a 5v5 into a 5v4, the fight is immediately lost for the opposing team. Its a relic of 2016-18 OW1 and needs adjusting to make it more readable.
Honestly great idea. I like the interactivity.
I think the rest of the DPS roster being ass has catapulted Widow into the best dps over the past couple seasons. All the other rising dps characters like reaper and ashe (outside of some shotgun pellet changes, ashe got hs damage nerfed because mercy boost got buffed) didn't get major buffst buffs, but didn't get nerfed into the ground. There's so much sustain and mitigation in the game that dps feels like you're shoehorned into picking character that can do just enough to survive. It's why I swapped to playing support since ow 2 came out, there's so much more impact on the game because I can dps and give heals.
Im pretty sure the movement speed in ow 2 is faster by default (I remember while some streamers tested the beta that said that everything is faster and ow 1 feels slow when they go back) + addtional heroes that give speed boosts (kiriko ult, junkerqueen shout, juno ring, zen during ult, cass during ult)
No it's not there was a short period a the beginning of ow2 where all dps had increased movement speed as their passive but that is gone now
Base move speed is the exact same. Just a lot of things were clunkier when Overwatch released (a lot of heroes would lock your aim for longer than they do now, for example.) You might be thinking of the first DPS passive, which gave all DPS heroes a slightly increased movespeed (which was the same move speed Genji and Tracer have always had by default).
It just feels a lot faster because it is more fluid and with one less tank in the fray that's a lot less health to go through to end a team fight.
In Classic her rifle charges faster, and the recoil is normal (like with Ana), and not the huge, insanely long, and broken one we have in OW2, that throws of your vertical aim constantly, and returns to a random vertical position based on how much you move your mouse after the shot.
base movement speed has been increased to everyone but genji and tracer. Genji and Tracer were faster than the rest of the roster, but that's been changed in OW2
@@calamari9436 that increased movement speed was only after a kill, it was not a passive that was available 100% of the time
That dude is so wrong about mercy.
If he wants to win now then pick miora mercy or lifeweaver and get stuck in silver/gold
If you want to actually improve and climb over months and months slowly then actually get better at the game and don’t shit on people for saying the truth that Ana and bap are better long term
He simply has a skill issue and doesn’t wanna dedicate time to improve aim and positioning for them
Exactly
Ana is shit in ranks. She doesnt do nearly enough healing to support the players around her.
Ya fr. Saying “my aim sucks” is okay but then saying “therefore I’m going to play mercy” is dumb. Play mercy and your aim will continue to suck lol. Play who you want but let’s not act like mercy is doing more than Ana
@@Y33Tbigly it’s even worse when you try to prove or justify “this is why mercy is better” because your aim sucks
@@french_toast223The point of ana is for the nade, sleep, nano, and the pressure from her 70-dmg no fall off shots? Not for healing?
Widow probably untouched in patch due to blizzard wanting people to buy prisms complete battle pass
Give widow a lense glint and give her slower charge up on shot damage.
They just need to revert hitbox for her gun to 0.00 like how they reverted hanzo hitbox so they kept one shot. That is a big big reason widow is so prevalent and why is feels like every widow is a god. Just revert hitbox back to pinpoint and then see how it feels from there
One shot sniper characters dont belong in the genre. It's just catering to COD fanboys.
I’m 100% okay with Lotus playing close by and not ever using Life Grip on me. I hate that ability and ask every Lotus to not use it on me.
adjust hs hitbox to be more precise and less forgiving and improve netcode and server performance, both sides wins
Yes, since forever. Since based design from TF2 Sniper. It’s just been amplified because they gave her a mythic skin for this season in a format this stale.
take a shot for every jump cut
About open Q queue times, in America if it’s midday it’s faster than all roles role Q, but at night it was almost impossible to find a game. I do think the system now is kinda worse though, you soloQ into unbalanced games and Iv gotten 6 mmr for a win as a soloQer cuz the win was expected
this eye contact tho 🤭 teehee
The Mercy One is just someone using Numbers without any knowledge, for example on league some characters are balances to have under 50% wr, because they are hard and players that cant play them Will bring The winrate naturally down, if Ana or Baptiste had The same wr as Mercy it would just mean ubron5 need to know how to play them to win, ence they are too strong
it’s not movement creep, it’s the quickscope, can’t do that in the current version of the game
Most people who play this game are either plat and lower or playing unranked for fun, Widow is just not fun to play against, no one cares if she’s played in top 500 or not and if they think she’s broken or not, it’s just extremely unfun to play against in the maps where she works on
Personally I know how to deal with widow as a support or dps, but you can’t expect everyone to know, especially when the widow is good, they either keep getting farmed or change to widow and try to match the enemy widow but they’re not as good so you play -1 dps the whole game against a good widow + her team.
IMO one taps in general are unfun, log Hanzo was unfun, Widow is unfun.
Reduce widow headshot multiplier but then increase it during sight. Sight becomes extra deadly but widow becomes less deadly otherwise. might need some cost changes and maybe no longer buff the team though
Survasa is pretty good. New Junk City is the worst map in the game. New Junk City is tighter with a lot more choke points. That translates to being very defender heavy where is you cap first it's way easier to hold the point and it *strongly* favors brawls/AOE heroes.
This makes it feel more luck based than other maps, especially when solo queing, as in, if their team picks Junkrat or similar heroes, the odds of you getting steam rolled are pretty high.
4:17 he asked about the echo chamber to someone in the echo chamber. Win rate does not lie. It is literally the only metric that matters when discussing hero strength. This guy has no idea what he is talking about.
Sniper glint would fix the problem
It would not. Most times you already are seeing the widow and know where she is. This laser pointer/sniper glint argument has been debunked so many times. What she needs is a wayy longer charge up, 200 damage headshot and 50 damage poison to kill.
Literally you proved the person right that had the echo chamber advice observation
He was lowkey cooking ngl
third guy needs to know winrate is a false statistic
If play to have fun play quick play, If you play to win play rank. Not hard
you should have fun in both modes. comp ain't that serious
@neilmallick20 you sound like you throw games
Make Illari a threat to Widow again by making her viable as a sniper like she was at launch. She's terrible right now, make her A tier like practically every other support and a Widow threat.
She won't be oppressive as long as you keep her Ultimate where it is now. It was oppressive at launch and it's pretty crap now.
Illari isn't even that bad, her pylon is one of the worst designed and obnoxious things in the game. Then she has coach gun 2.0. Don't buff one annoying poke hero to shut down the most annoying one. Just have them both not be great.
@@Lúci-o-ohshow is pylon bad lol it has 100 HP and million cool down if broken
@@SpeedKing.. Maybe because it's a braindead 100% uptime auto locking (to lowest hp target) mercy beam which basically makes it a 5.5 v 5 and if the illari has common geometry understanding and map knowledge will place it in places that are uncontestable and require full cooldown cycles or engages to even attempt to destroy which put you at risk of dying. For example, on tracer you need to blink in and kill it while getting shot at and booped etc. Which almost always forces recall which has basically the same cooldown as pylon if you do even manage to destroy it. It's not like sleep dart or suzu where atleast you can force it because remember 100% uptime. Also, you can't duel her on most dps in the game.
Also, I believe it is 125 hp.
Oh yeah, and if illari anticipates the push she just places it further back for free.
The mercy one trick is coping hard, Calling ana, bap and Kiri sub optimal lmao.
6:06 REAL SEEING REAL !!!
Hot take is, Widow has always been an issue and the character as it is should not exist in Overwatch. I saw this suggestion recently, but simply making it to where she cannot one shot kill you across the map (AKA use her sniper) unless she ults is the only way I could see her sniper identity remaining without being a fundamental issue. Even in lore and cinematics, she only shoots her sniper while her infrasights are up, otherwise she blasts people with the SMG.
Ngl I love new junk city because I'm a silly little guy (junkrat)
"Now"???? She's been a huge problem for 8 years lol
Chipsa was right
We hated him but now we see his truth
Sometimes this is y i dont like ow help or training videos its always pick meta with high skill ceiling when most players never gonna get good or have fun playing those characters
I actually have the opposite problem with the 2016 widow. I hit so many shots on current patch but in the original patch it’s so clunky and slow I can’t hit too many shots. Not that I hit none of them, I have had several classic games where I just still dominate regardless but they are fewer than I’m used to.
I legitimately don’t understand why anyone complains about wide matches. It usually means some players on both teams are higher and some on both teams are lower.
So for those lower players, yes you’re going to struggle a bit against the better opponents, however this is a great opportunity to learn and get better. Bad plays won’t be rewarded just because the enemy is bad too, so you learn what actually works.
For the better players I can understand it being frustrating when your team doesn’t know what to do, but just think of it as an opportunity to bring these players up which is good for everyone. If more players are competent and end up improving, your queue times get better, and wide matches more rare.
I would legitimately love to just be dropped into grandmasters, and be punished down to my proper rank, I think it would make my actual rank higher than it is trying to fight my way up from the bottom. Just to prove a point, I opened an alt account, and got placed in high gold, ended up being able to impact the games pretty well, and climbed into mid plat. My main account has struggled to get out of mid silver.
well said
Because I always end up being the player with the highest rank or close to it. I don't find it fun queuing into comp just to find some idiot Gold player on my team thinking he can play Ball in a low diamond/high plat lobby.
I shouldn't be suffering because someone cannot play the game, and it certainly isn't my job to "teach" them.
@@ragerasse7616 it is actually not my job to play with smurfs who can’t hack it at their own rank, but I don’t cry about it.
Lmao, you sound like the babies on Reddit making believe the game is targeting you personally with leavers and mismatches.
Btw, It’s a public, online, team based game little bro; it is actually your job to help whoever is on your team and for them to help you learn, that’s how this works, it’s how all team based activities work.
@@Matthiass721 Who said it was your job? Smurfs are just as bad as wide matchmaking players.
And no, it isn't my job to carry the bad players. Yes, I work as a team, but there is so much you can do as a team if you have someone like Kobe, Lebron, and then some fool Matthiass721. That team is going to lose every time.
@@ragerasse7616 look at this plat calling himself koby, you are closer in skill than you think to gold players. 😌
Overwatch players are to entitled, they got to used to op characters and abilities so when the idea of changing a character comes up they cannot fathom changing them because they are so used to getting cheap and easy kills/wins. Identity doesn't mean you can't change a character.
With what character is this the case?
Short answer yes
Widow rework:
Scoped shots now deal 90 damage with a 30 damage of 2 seconds poision effect that also reveals them for the duration.
Headshots increase both instant damage and poison damage by 2.5X (dealing 225 immediately and 75 over 2 seconds). This keeps her lethality of one-shots with more chance for people to fight against it.
Honestly I like that a lot.
It's like when one hunts an animal until extinction. When its removed from the environment it allows certain predators to rise and dominate. This is why old Sombra should be appreciated.
no thanks old sombras were insufferable, i'll just stick to diving the widow instead
@dddd-uk4vn Then welcome to oblivion!
Dying to a well placed headshot is way better than dying to an invisible hack. One takes skill to get value the other is Sombra.
@@JC-dc7ebthe headshot does not take skill lol. When she hacks she has to physically come close to you. I hate both tho
@@SpeedKing.. then why dont you climb to gm on widow? It takes no skill to click heads
If they can’t think of an actual creative solution for widow, then they should just reduce her health by 25. Yes, she will be easy to kill, but that’s the point. Widow doesn’t need health to perform her function of one shotting across the map, and she shouldn’t be able to get high value if people counter swap. It’s okay if she’s forced to swap in order to get value sometimes; too many people hate her.
Let kiri one shot widow on headshot lmao
Yes.
Before I watch this video I'll give my opinions on Widow right now. Yes she has the most egregious one-shot in the game, but she trades it off with massive personal vulnerability. She's basically a sitting duck while shooting, has 50 less health than most of the other heroes, and is basically useless in close range unless she hits a godlike shot. Even if she can line up the godlike close range shot consistently, if you're already in her face, you should be able to blow her up before she can even charge the shot enough as most other DPS. Hanzo has a one-shot too, but his one-shot is much harder to hit; and therefore Hanzo has a lot more mobility while shooting, and has a higher rate of fire. I will add an "edit" notice below with my new thoughts if this video changes my mind.
I hate the argument of she has less health or just dive her. Sure in concept that works but in practice that’s not how the game works. She has a grapple and 9/10 has a support that can save her life. If your team isn’t running a coordinated dive, which they won’t be unless ur gm or higher usually that isn’t gonna work. As a tank you can’t solo dive her or else your team is left exposed to the rest of the team. The only other option is to mirror her and just be better. The simple solution is to add a sniper glint and a laser on where she is aiming.
@@browncowomg4565 I mean they basically added a sniper glint with the Mythic skin having all those glowing parts on it lol. Pay to lose.
"a sitting duck while shooting" maybe in your gold games. For the rest of us shes 100m away behind a tank and has a support pocket
@@SpeedKing.. So how do you normally kill Widow in your games?
@@GuidedByCompassion get a better widow/ get a Sombra and hope it works. Or dedicate the entire team on diving the widow.
From the comments, it seems like people just instantly mald and start crying when they see an enemy widow. I’m gonna have to start maining her now if it’s that crazy. I play Ana anyways, should be easy enough.
I am shocked to see so many people suddenly complaining about Widow. I have played since 2016. Is it all new OW2 players complaining about her??? It's like they've never seen a sniper in an fps before.
Many Overwatch players have little or zero shooter gamesense. The amount of plat or even diamond players who can't figure out angles, sightlines, and soundcues is astounding. I was never good at Counterstrike, but coming from a more "pure" shooter gave me a huge tactical advantage because I understood concepts like cover, proper peeking, audio cues, baiting shots, etc.
most of them are sheeps who jumped on the bandwagon
Overwatch is not a typical FPS. The one-shot sniper gimmick has never been engaging or healthy for the game. It was tolerable pre hitbox change, not so much anymore. People are complaining about it more now because with the sombra nerfs and the new mythic, you're just seeing more widow.
open que shouldnt be ranked
I swear if I hear someone ask a question then karq just victim blames them then I'm done with this series. You always either blame or make up a scenario which completely discourages the question
Examples?
To be fair this community is so bad at this game i wouldn't hold it against him if we got mad
It’s almost like she has a sniper rifle
Widow breaks the game. No game like this should have a one-shot. So get rid of Hanzos one shot again too
😂 Noobs cant stop crying about widow
Suravasa is sooo much better than njcity
true. jersey city sucks
Nah widow is not that big of a problem, a good sombra always win, a good genji always win, a good hanzo aways win. But if your team is bad, well it’s over
the one shot is dumb. it was the same argument with doomfist. being instantly killed is no fun at all
Missed those days when widow is a really fun hero to play, either you 1 shot 1 kill or you just suck at aiming and missed basically everything other than a deflecting Genji 😂
Movement creep made the game worse. There's no room to punish mistakes anymore on characters that aren't designed to put themselves at risk and classic shows this like crazy. At least Genji needed to risk himself to get value when he was the only mobile hero.
Widow is balanced bro wth, all the comments its just skill issue
Make widows headshot 225, idc if she’s your main, end of discussion
That'd just make the hero not fun to play as. They did the same thing to Hanzo and he was so bad and frustrating to play as they just rolled him back. It's more of an issue with flank routes (or lack thereof) in some maps.
@ man that’s the point is for her not to be fun
when will peoples realise that even when hanzo couldnt 1 shot he still forced peoples to take cover and get heals, thats just as much value as a kill.
widow gotta go.
first!
Who cares
@@chelushila92 me