The streaming revival - Will we ever need one? (Revivals series)
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- So many old formats have had revivals, it seems inevitable that streaming will one day fade from glory then be revived. But maybe it shouldn't be revived. Maybe there's a better option. Check out the Audio Masterclass Music Production and Sound Engineering Course at bit.ly/3W3tpKo
BTW, I mixed up movies and music a little just after the seven-minute mark and I was - oh dear - too lazy to reshoot. What I say applies to both. DM
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CREDITS
Rhinoceros - www.flickr.com...
Hippopotamus - www.flickr.com...
Wildebeast - www.flickr.com...
Dire Straits - en.wikipedia.o...
Captain Pugwash - en.wikipedia.o...
Michael Walsh - • 'You will own nothing ...
R. Kelly - en.wikipedia.o...
![FendiDa Rappa - Clock Dat ft. Shamar Marco [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3NBU8KHdxYY/mqdefault.jpg)
I've been into Apple Music and Dolby Atmos lately and I'm stunned. What a great experience and a stunning quality. Furthermore I really like the suggestions AM gives and discover a lot of new artists and music I like and never heard before. I really enjoy listening to music again. Upgraded my system to 7.1.2 and really enjoy the Atmos format because if the definition and clearity and separation
The only thing streaming audio is good for is finding new music to buy on CD-or, if it’s not available on CD because it’s THAT old and esoteric, on vinyl.
Appreciate your view on streaming. Personally, I draw the line when it comes to having possession of the content. Once I have purchased a CD and ripped it to FLAC, after that no need to even think about a third parties concerns. Totally understandable that companies like have a predictable revenue stream. But, I am not a company and that does not always work for me.
Seems that everytime you turn around some company is trying to gets it hand down in your pocket or harvest personal information or track you activities. They want your money and they want control. Sorry... go work that out with someone else, not for me.
to large enterprise & hyper-capital finance institutions, individual humans are minuscule transfer functions.
I too prefer to own my music and also have the satisfaction that the artist is getting a slice of the pie. The only downside is that I’m now retired - so cannot upsize my physical space to store records and hifi equipment anymore and the Drobo/NAS keeps getting bigger hard drives to store the digital copies of what I have collected. My wife doesn’t like my hoarding more stuff, be it records, CD’s, turntables, amplifiers and speakers. Very entertaining and well thought out as usual, thx.
I enjoy streaming but the major problem with it is that you don't own the music and many of my favourite albums are not available. Others are available but may well disappear in the years to come. This is why I still buy CD's
I have an intermediate solution. Though I own CDs, vinyls and some cassettes, the vast majority of the music I have and enjoy is in digital files stored through several hard disks. Many of them are also on some cloud storage so I have my own streaming of my preferred music whenever I want.
I concur. Jellyfin is on my list of things to investigate jellyfin.org/ DM
Regarding the "Quote Un Quote Cloud" If there is ever a major technical melt down at said server you will lose it all. Just something to think about.
Since I started using a streaming service I've started listening to all kinds of music that I wouldn't have done if I was buying vinyl or cd. Spending £10 or more on a cd or at least double that on vinyl can be an expensive way of finding that you only like one track from a 'new to you' artist/group and not the others on their album. I've got what I call a pretty good 'adequate' system and have struggled to tell any difference between my ripped cd version and the qobuz one. My system makes it clear which recordings are well recorded and mastered and which aren't. I still buy the odd vinyl or cd. I think there's a place for all.
Agree about the rental and return fad. Everything professed as new and better, is actually not at all. Previous generations kept cars 30+ years sometimes, and kept them in good condition inside and out and sometimes handing them down the family. Can't get more environmentally friendly than that. Same applied to many other items we use longer term.
One thing you can do to bypass DRM is to play the protected copy through a high quality DAC to a high quality ADC and then record it back onto digital.
That one analog transport layer will do negligible harm, if any, to the quality of the sound and you'll get a DRM-free digital copy.
That's too much bother for me, though. I'm one of those dinosaurs who likes to own my music library.
So I buy my music on CD or download it from a DRM-free service, and then upscale it in Audacity to remove the "make it sound like THAT" so I can carry it around in FLAC format on my Sony music player.
Not perfect, I know you'll tell me, but as long as the music is high quality, I'm not bothered if the frequency curve is not perfectly true to what the musician played in the recording studio.
I struggled moving from cd and vinyl to streaming. I now stream with Qobuz and i love being able to discovering new music at the click of a button. As an Audiophile i've naturally invested in build a good solid network with Audiophile ethernet cables, switch and optical converter.
J miss maxi singler, not on apple. Tidal or other music. Love from Denmark❤
Wav/flac quality streaming - anything I really like, and wish to keep - goes onto quality cassette. I can definitely hear compression artifacts of anything less than flac, and I can still hear these faults after they've been put on tape. Tape isn't perfect, but done well with quality tape it's light years ahead of digitally compressed audio.
For my classical music I subscribe to Idagio. They offer lossless 16 bit 44.1 kHz and the catalogue is designed around complete works, rather than ‘songs’. I love it.
I’m a proponent of not listening to a recording more than once, even ones I enjoy. There is a lot of interesting music; I won’t run out. This would be foolish to do with any media other than streaming. An additional benefit is that one-and-done, by definition, discourages audiophile A/B nitpicking and keeps focus on the musical art and the discovery of great sounding new music can be just as exciting as listening to a new audio system.
I remember a CD by some guy that said on the tray card "Listen once only in a darkened room". DM
Then music for you is 'in the moment' and doesn't form any long term memories, I wouldn't like that.
I grew up with LPs and cassettes. I remember the pain and frustrations with these formats well. I embraced CDs when they arrived. And finally, when iPod came, i ripped all my CDs and embraced digital.
I now mostly stream, though i have a huge library of ripped files.
I gave away all my tapes and CDs.
I simply do not understand the current obsession with vinyl. Digital has far superior sound quality, and the convenience is unmatched.
In your opinion. It has the potential but it is simply untrue to say it is superior. More streamed music I’ve heard is appallingly mastered. Most of my vinyl isn’t. I own the vinyl. It’s not an obsession, but fixating on music stored in the ether and making silly comments about superiority is an obsession along with the constant upgrades digital demands. It’s a disposable consumable. Some of my best loved vinyl is 50 years old. I’ll stick to physical media thanks.
@@ReferenceFidelityComponents AMEN brother! Me to. Love my 10" and 12" mono jazz records to! I am guilty of streaming when I am busy working on antique clocks just for back ground music. That is fine but, for serious listening it will always be records and tapes in this house. Cd's are ok sometimes depending if it has not been compressed to death before hand. Just saying. One huge exception on a CD is The Rolling Stones, Bridges to Babylon. I do not how they pulled that off but it is the one example I can only think of that sounds crazy great! Mind you refering to their first pressing CD only.
Respectfully if you had a good turntable and records you would actually be taken back on what you have been missing out on audibly for a very long time. I stream here and there to but I can play the same album on RUclips then play it back (original LP) on my nice turntable and it is a totally different listening experience. It sounds like you might be ready for your own personal revival. If nothing else go to a good friends house that still has a great turntable in his system and just listen for awhile. After all, it is about enjoying music as best possible. I am just trying to conveigh to you,,,you have been missing out on a lot audibly. No bashing from this end just trying to be helpful. Wish you the best.
Whenever I pay for music it must be in a format that I own. I personally like CDs. What I alike about the physical format is that it also comes with Artwork and a booklet that often is carefully designed and put together. Often the artist put a lot of thought in to this and to me it is part of the experience.
If a new physical format comes along that fulfils the same criteria like a booklet with some flash like card, or if they decide to replace the CD with a 24 bit audio DVD I am fine with that.
I only stream.., we get to listen to an immense range of music… the quality is as good as CD.. over 200 Mbs fibre.. & I assert better than vinyl.., no cleaning, dust, pops..
We just sit down and enjoy/ roll through,, discovering new stuff as we go.., like I say through an immense amount of different music…👍
Where the problem?
I want to have my music in my home and own it.
CDs
Fantastic video. I loved it.
I have enough CDs and LPs enough to last me several lifetimes. That’s the giraffe in the room.
As far as I remember, Steve Jobs was a big fan of his vinyl collection - as well the Boss of Sony during the heydays of CD. Does anyone see the other big animal in the room as I do?
No, because time moves on and formats will change. When did Steve and the "Boss of Sony" begin listening to and collecting records? Highly likely when it was the dominant format. The problem with digital today is the high compression and that will change.
Totally agree with you coach…
For over ten years my method is having a NAS device with large drives full of music at the highest quality. I suggested to a friend he do the same, but he declined and continued with CD, SACD and Bluray. I decided I needed to reclaim some house space back though, whereas he is drowning in furniture holding those discs. 🤣
I'm in agreement here. So is the burglar who will love your NAS but in this day and age won't touch your friend's discs.
@@AudioMasterclass I guess what you are saying is there is no solution, just degrees of risk. I suppose I could stick labels on my NAS exterior saying it only contains Des O.Connor songs and photos. 😱🤮🤣😂
'Dick A Dum Dum' is one of my favourites.
@@AudioMasterclass I was -2 years of age when that was released. I wonder if he managed to record that in one take? Quite impressive if he did.
You can replace your NAS with any cloud storage service, so could have a copy of your files saved away, and stream them back the moment you want.
We should just digitally own album artwork and be able to print it if we gotta have something to stare at that is on cardboard.
1. The master version used on streams. By owning the period physical media, I control which master I own - preferably closer to the original.
2. The 'past' - I think it's sort of snooty to suggest that certain means of listening to music, certain formats, belong 'in the past.
It's my right to listen to the music I like via whatever format I prefer!
I would expect such a viewpoint to come from, say, a Gen-Y or Z person, not someone around David's age - assumedly over fifty years old.
In response to your point #1, being closer to the original is a matter of degree. It was widely reported in the years following the introduction of CD that many very early CDs were not made from the original master, but a safety copy, the vinyl production master, a copy of the master sent to an overseas factory, a copy of that copy, a copy of the vinyl production master sent to an overseas factory, a copy of that copy, or maybe even the A&R manager's cassette copy of the safety copy. And also, many genuine masters were destroyed in a fire in 2008. The original master of anything is now something of a 'holy grail' that might exist somewhere, possibly might not, and probably never will be found. DM
@@AudioMasterclass Understood. But when I play a period LP vs an early issue CD of, say, 'Escape' by Journey, they sound more alike than do those songs when played from a loudness war-era remaster.
That sort of over compression and other processing in those remasters from the late 1990s to mid-2000s impacted their sound a lot more than an original CD being mastered from a safety copy or whatever.
Call me old-fashioned, maybe because I am old, but I don't like loudness-war mastering, nor do I like having to use brickwall limiting to bring the loudness of a master, or a RUclips soundtrack up to the recommended -14 LUFS. As I say in ruclips.net/video/UzSmUEWknRU/видео.html there is a certain value in not over-mastering. DM
@@AudioMasterclass And sadly, as I have been told, over in the Mastering Forum on GearSpace, sometimes you have to do what is requested, to make a living. It's a tough compromise! I wouldn't make a goode master engineer either, for that reason.
Also you don't own any copywriter content you own a license to use it!
I agree with much of what you say. However you miss one vital point which is the fact that the music buisness and creators need a hard format and a hard 'end product'. This enshrines the created product as art and its proper end-user payment heirarchy. Purely digital entities are ghosts in the machine. You don't consume digital food or drive a virtual car. Any new format must return to a hard format even if its only a USB drive containing the licensed product. The music industry is a poor cousin of its pre-digitised self and the pittances paid by the online platforms has robbed songwriters of a meaningful income. If you compare those DRM rates with the former established royalty model. That is the dinosaur in the room David. Only my opinion but I think one that fellow cavemen would raise tbeir hides and clubs over. LOL!
I've been streaming for 18 years. Over the years I've seen very few album titles disappear. A couple artists pulled theirs briefly, but they reappeared again. If a music fan is worried about their favorite album disappearing from streaming, they can always make a digital recording on Audacity.
For smaller artists it isn't as rare to see music disappear from streaming services. Most distributors have a yearly pay model so if an independent artist doesn't keep up to them for varying reasons, then the music will most likely be pulled. Physical sales are still very important for lower level acts. Artists earn more money than what they would with streaming and again, the risk of music being pulled is eliminated.
Of course, if the streamer only listens to bigger acts then you don't have this problem.
You must have mainstream tastes. There are hundreds of albums I love that aren't available on streaming sites and many that are available will disappear once licensing agreements end
It will not be long before you do a Musicians Revival, once they become wanted again. For now we are stuck with modern plastic formulaic disposable Muzak. 😉
But. In case of a cd or any bunch of bits on any kind of storage - you can't rely on them because they degrade or brake or talking bout clouds - you don't own them. Vinyl or tape given proper storage conditions are immortal compared to digital thing.
Vinyl and tape only last if you don't play them. Commercial CDs are pressed, so last better than vinyl, unlike homemade CDs which may use unreliable inks. Digital formats are really easy to backup too.
I like streaming because I don't have to spend thousands of dollars on albums/CDs to hear the music I like. 120$ per year (average CD quality plan) is a good deal in my book even though a song/album might be cancelled at some point. In that case if I really liked a cancelled song/album I'll go out and buy the album....still cheap.
I believe that phrase "You will own nothing and be happy" was originally spoken by Klauss Schwabb of the World Economic Forum, and later turned into a meme by Walsh or some other ultra-conservative (I'm generally a Libertarian if anyone wants to know).
It can be argued whether or not the phrase was taken out of context, but I find Schwabb and the WEF to be terrifying.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_happy
@@AudioMasterclass Ah, yes! The Great Reset...
I’ve been buying DRM free music downloads for over a dozen years.
Haaaaaa. Yes vinyal still leads the 2 channel audio format or the best analog format rules.
I agree with your problems with streaming. I can't play Neil Young on Spotify. I can name scores of albums from the top of my head that I would listen to once in a while on Spotify but can't. Recently all studio albums of Nils Lofgren are pulled. But lets not dramatise. My taste is very eclectic and not mainstream. But even I can stream a lot of music that suits my taste. Spotify wrapped notified me that in 2021 i played complete albums of 1357 DIFFERENT (!) artists. I learn a lot about music this way. For the rest i have my cd and vinyl collection. But i'm also glad I can stream. Try not to be so absolute in your statements in your video's. Also I think Spotify offers a good classical collection. And i'm not mainstream in classical either.
I have started my journey to streaming many years ago (~2008 ? ) with Spotify. Not quite happy with the quality of the lossy formats I moved to Tidal Master with MQA ~ 2013. Recently moved to Qobuz. I do NOT regret not owning any physical media at all. Actually, I am giving away my CD collection since I do not have any desire to keep it. On the streaming service I feel like a child in the candy store with ALL YOU CAN EAT subscription. I value the option to DISCOVER new music the most, and add new, often rare and exotic artists regularly to my collection. BTW, “Brothers in Arms” album sounds really great on Qobuz in regular CD format. Actually, Dire Straits albums are my "go to" to compare different HiFi gear.
Very good perspective ------ I use Amazon Prime with HD (WAV quality) and even24 bit, which I do not need. You are right - 16 bit playback is quite fine. (24 bit has advantages for recording).
7:40 I’m confused again, you say that modern digital audio is as perfect as anyone needs it to be… Yet in another video, you expressed how modern digital music is loud, lacks dynamics and has distortion but not you say it perfect? Against tape, vinyl, CD’s and streaming, but digital music is as perfect as anyone needs? Please explain Sir?
I don't think I have ever used the expression 'digital music'. Digital audio, as I said, is as close to perfect technically as almost anyone could possibly need. What producers choose to do with it is another matter entirely.
@@AudioMasterclassI’m genuinely trying to learn. I have been binge watching this series. I am however very confused, if tape / vinyl is inferior and CD / Streaming is loud and distorted then what are we to do? You did say ‘digital audio is as perfect as anyone needs it to be, but if digital music such as CD and Streaming is loud, compressed and distorted then what next and how can it be ‘as perfect as anyone needs it to be’ when you have stated its flaws numerous times? Please expand and explain, many thanks.
Let me be more precise then. Digital audio at CD quality or better is as perfect as almost anyone needs. If music is loud, compressed, and distorted that is due to choices made by the producer. Lossy streaming services are not CD quality but are good enough for many listeners.
@@AudioMasterclass What streamer would you recommend for streaming music and creating a streaming network etc?
This guy talks a lot of sense. I have never streamed anything. I own more than 14,000 CD's and continue to buy. I use iTunes to rip to my iPod (yes, I have several of these which I have upgraded to SSD's and had new batteries installed) They are my portable Music Jukeboxes but that's another story. The amount of times I either cannot find the Music I want from platforms like iTunes or Spotify without subscribing to a more premium service, or 2 years later it's been pulled and no longer available. So frustrating. Also, remastered streams are not always the best.
2:07 - "cd... only 16bits.." Sheez, you sound like an audiophile saying that! Like CDs make music sound like video game consoles from the early 1980s or something, lol!
"Pack those bits correctly and you have audio as good as anyone could want. That's something audiophiles might want to comment on." I seem to remember saying that in the video. DM
@@AudioMasterclass I'm focusing mre on your words, and I quote verbatim:
"... even though CD is 'only' 16 bit.'''
Was that you saying that, or were you echoing someone else's sentiment. And in either case, why is CD having 16 bits an issue?
Let's peel the above apart together.
why not just download the music from "3rd parties* instead of streaming?
Audio Masterclass does not engage with piracy. DM
@@AudioMasterclass I always try to obtain a paid copy for my music and films, but the makers and distributors make this almost impossible. Not available in your country, not available in FLAC only MP3, you can only rent a copy. etc etc the list is endless. So, I tend to get what I want were I can find it. Sorry, they have no one to blame but themselves.
@@MichaelBeeny
I have similar experiences. It's getting harder and harder to buy good quality music or BluRay as well. Often I want to, but I can't.
Streaming are for people who love to flick their fingers on smart devices always picking the next song. Attention Deficit Disorder comes to mind
No.
The whole idea of paying and getting nothing is perverse. So is the idea of paying a very very very tiny amount of money from the streaming company to the artist.
Remember: It's the artist who did the music. NOT the streaming company.
I prefer to own my stuff. And I dislike the idea of buying even more boxes, cables, modems, www connections, abbonnements and what not. Of the same music...
Sick idea to stream, and sick to demand money for other peoples work.
I prefer the sound from LP. tape, cd. NOT streaming.
And then there's a new format every 8 moth...
So:
No.
Kind regards.
You focus too much on the technical and utilitarian. Check out Walter Benjamin’ ‘art and reproduction.’ There are reasons beyond the superficially utilitarian to enjoy physical media rather than cheap reproductions
streming killed the goldrn goose recoed companies were greedy dold record plants and now. records are expensive
CDs suck, Vynils suck.
Streaming is not owning.
So... what's the solution?
USB sticks!
MIss big art? Okey. USb Sticks packed with big art cases!
No. Pointless topic. You are not an authority but opine as if you are. Nothing personal in this but a point needs making.
You’re a bloke with a mic and camera posting on you tube so give us one reason why you think your opinion matters more than anyone else’s? Just saying so please don’t take offence.
I do not, nor many music lovers have any intention of downloading music. Vinyl is not an anachronism nor irrelevant. That’s a silly comment clearly made by someone who hasn’t heard a decent pressing on a decent TT set up through decent kit.
The opinions of those saying it is are on the other hand (irrelevant).
Also, CD Red book done well is sonically indistinguishable from hi res and blind testing studies have demonstrated this again and again. The bat eared might line to argue the point and probably will.
The problem irrespective of format is mastering and recording quality dictate final sq all other things being equal, and that includes audio compression issues. Use what format suits you, just don’t preach that someone doing different lives in the past and is out of step. Those opinions are best kept to yourself. I don’t normally react to vids like this but guess I’m growing tired of the number of self appointed audio gurus dishing out advice when they have no authority or experience other than subjective opinion posing as fact.
You seem to have a problem with me having an opinion, perhaps with anyone who has an opinion different to yours, or indeed any opinion at all. Good luck with your life. DM