Just a quick reminder that if Disney hadn't spent many years and millions of dollars to change copyright laws Superman would be in the public domain right now and anyone could make whatever Superman story they liked.
@@thatmotivatedchris6749 Yeah but ThoughtSlime's point about controlling the means of media distribution still stands. Otherwise we'd have way more gay Sherlock Holmes stories in traditional mediums.
@@DiThi a lot of them would be very bad and thus you'd have to sift through them to find the good Superman stories, and also anyone could just make Nazi propaganda with him with essentially no recourse, and could potentially just make him a Nazi icon. Copyright is dumb but people act like "everyone can use a character with no restrictions" would have zero negative consequences because they can't think past "I can make fanfics and fanfilms with no worry."
@@NAFEDUDE There's many ways to avoid that work. For example a forum with votes, something like Reddit, where the most voted ones are probably the best. Or better, an ELO like system where you don't rate stories, but compare a pair and decide which is better.
You know what I hate? When people act like superman is the immortal detached emotionless god. Superman was raised on earth by farmers, in the animated series he cracks jokes, he cares about people, he’s very HUMAN despite being born an alien.
DC has taken the idea of 'gods' for their characters a bit too far. Forgetting its really not as deep as it may seem. There is potential but its ultimately not the goldmine of good ideas some think it is.
Same sort of thing happens to Batman, he balances lightheartedness and stoicism in the animated series but he's so gruff and dumb in the games and movies.
To be fair… if they had a daughter, they would’ve named her after Lois’ grandmother. Plus, I think Lois wouldn’t want to name any of her kids after her dad.
@@merthsoft It depends on what continuity you're reading, but he's usually a general in a secret government organization that's out to Make Earth Great Again by kicking out all the aliens, stopping positive news coverage of aliens, and just general "ends justify the means of keeping us safe from those darn dirty aliens" stuff. EDIT: Wait, am I confusing him with General Ross from the Hulk, or do they have basically the same deal, but aimed at different kinds of superheroes their daughters married?
@That Hippie Gamer yep a jewish superman would be perfect It would kind of like how after ww2 the jews survived hardship (krypton destroyed) fled their homes and were now improving But then superman turns evil and thinks hes the good guy much like the Zionists are doing in israel. Story goes full circle and superman becomes the villain
The idea that superheroes should help people who need help just because they are in an extraordinary position to do so reminds me of a quote: "From each according to their ability, and to each according to their need."
Every time I heard "Superman is boring because he's overpowered" I just know that it's likely that person has never read a Superman comic. There's a reason he's still around!
It really depends on the comic. There are plenty of boring Superman stories in which he's written way too strong to the point of trivializing almost all conflicts save for Kryptonite showing up at inopportune times. Comic writing varies greatly in quality and content.
@Dapper MrAlex Well, if you want a good telling of his origin story, I very much recommend "Superman: Birthright". While you're no doubt aware of his story, this is a great retelling of it. As ThoughtSlime said in the video, his parents are important to who Superman is. Just a good Superman story? All-Star Superman hands down. Hard to summarize, but basically a story of coming to terms with mortality. A story where they actually address the whole "You're just a big boring boy scout" idea? "What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and The American Way" is a favorite of mine. Superman For All Seasons is a great "Year in the life of" type story. I got more but even just finding snippets of his good moments from stories. Like when Joker was going to kill Clark Kent. There's a slowmotion bit where he's sitting there at a computer and Joker is behind him with a mallet. Meanwhile, Clark is trying to think how he's going to be able to sell the head injury in a nonlethal way so as not to give up his identity.
It's kinda ironic that the filming of this show happens in the poorest neighborhood in Canada similarly to how the billionaire villain seems to view Smallville... I just substituted "Vancouver's DTES" whenever you said "Smallville" and it very much echoed my sentiments down here!
Just look at all those glorious old buildings in Europe and the lowly state its current inhabitants are in. Clearly aliens must have had a hand in building them. edit: Just to make clear, this was not intended to make any kind of point about immigration. Just a joke applying the "aliens built pyramids" idea to who it never gets applied to.
@@Crowley9 To be fair they applied it to the Nazis in an episode. And I think there is a double standard in this criticism as there is no issue in dismissing the accounts from people in the sky coming down as mere superstition versus an account of what happened.
The comparisons of real, historical genocides (Native Americans by European colonists) and potential, fictional genocides (humans by space aliens) was touched on a bit by one of Supergirl's big bads, season 4's Ben Lockwood (aka, Agent Liberty). Obviously, he used that actual history to stoke fear and anger against people who were essentially extraterrestrial refugees. He was an interesting character.
Marvel comics does this but way friggin worse. Especially X-Men and Inhuman comics series have become really bad about this by dipping into some (frankly) Ethno-nationalist talking points. One of the worst series of comics that does this shit is the House of X/Power of X series, which is all about a returned Charles Xavier (who died the pervious series, killed off by Cyclops) who now has seen the light and realized that it's best if "we all just stick to our own". The funny thing is is the fact that this comic is one of the best representations of how self-defeating Ethno-nationalism is, namely because it goes through ten possible futures (with Wolverine and Moira Mctaggart as the main character) in which every single one the mutants lose to humanity. No matter what they do (attempted genocide, war, escape to a different planet) it all turns out the exact same way, with all the mutants on a reservation on Earth as humanity continues to evolve and develop more and more technology. While I don't like this series tacit endorsement of Ethno-nationalist talking points, I do like the fact that it's brutally honest that no matter what the mutants do (aside from integration) ends with them losing and getting lost in humanity's collective dust trial.
@@spacecadet9663 the whole mutant thing doesn't work as well as an allegory for classic racism because mutants can pop up anywhere from any one like there isn't a whole mutant culture
@@Dracon7601 I mean, depending on which comic you read that is true. There is one comic series in the X-Men franchise that talks about that sorta classic discrimination against mutant culture (specifically New X-Men 2001; Riot at Xavier's) were a mutant fashion designer ends up dying after being beaten up by humans. The crime takes place in a part of New York called mutant town, where it is specifically mentioned by the human detective how the human residents of New York don't really like how mutants culture is. Then again that might've been a bad choice for the whole discrimination though, because it turns out in the end that the fashion designer died from a drug overdose. I also think that same series touched on cultural appropriation (although they didn't call it that) by showing a group of humans (called the third species) which try to become mutants by implanting themselves with mutant organs. That group always gave me real "Get out" vibes too.
@@spacecadet9663 Maybe I'm wrong but is it possible that's the point? Could be a long con, but what if the culmination of this era is the realization that the whole Krakoa thing was a bad idea all along?
Okay but the irony of the poverty etc in Smallville and the actual place this was filmed... This was filmed in Vancouver BCs poorest postal code, and the film crews moved in for filming and continuously harassed the unhoused community members. I live around the corner from where they were filming.
Okay, now that I'm actually done watching... Uhm, if anyone reads this then ya better strap in because I might go on a tangent. Also TW for OD's and Unalives.. *To start off I immediately had a sad moment feels because one of the scenes shown was actually the last time I saw a friend of mine. We were talking on the street beside the filming about how they were mistreating the community members. He was an amazing person that cared allot about the community and actively tried to keep people safe. He OD'd shortly after this situation, so the feels were pretty strong.* TW Over... I personally haven't watched the show because of the reason above, so I wasn't fully aware of the controversy that's talked about in this video. While I am very happy there is a conversation about the racist aspects of the show I feel slightly let down about the topic I mentioned in my first comment. But tbh I'm not in the slightest surprised that it won't be a topic for future debates. So the community that this was filmed in is the Downtown Eastside (DTES) of Vancouver BC, which is the poorest postal code in (arguably) all of BC. It is also the epicenter for the fentanyl crisis and the community for allot of displaced Indigenous people. Vancouver is a filming city, you've all heard the jokes about watching TV with a Vancouverite and their inability to not comment on location. Something that isn't talked about is their mistreatment of community members while filming in the DTES. I have personally seen countless people being harassed and berated by security and staff of film sets while they are filming in these houseless peoples homes. Because this is such a common thing, no one really discusses it. It's just one of those back burner conversations that extends far past the movie industry vs. unhoused people. We are currently going through a housing crisis, fentanyl crisis, pandemic, and mass houseless evictions. People are being evicted from tent cities every single day and then being promised social housing that either doesn't exist, or is so dehumanizing that they end up moving back outside. Fun fact, allot of this social housing doesn't allow guests so people are actively using alone and unaliving because no one is there incase something goes wrong... I could go significantly farther into this, but this is already a stacked comment so I'll leave it at that. I don't mean to take away from your video Thought Slime, just wanted to add more to the conversation. Thank you so much for all the videos you put out, I truly love your content.
@@MrPiptron If you don't live in Vancouver or the surrounding area it's not really a big story, especially since Vancouver gets so hyped up as this amazing city, but that's just playground of the rich bullshit. Actually living here is amazingly frustrating for how much the place is stuck in this weird space politically where everyone's aware of the housing problems and associated crises, but figures that either nothing can be done (since house price increases have a ratcheting effect; land is kinda scarce due to being between rivers, mountains, and the U.S. border; and a constant influx of rich Hong Kong money that's been pouring into the housing market since China got them back), or is stuck in the kind of vaguely progressive yet unfailingly individualistic attitude that's typical of major cities these days, which keeps them from doing more than pitying the homeless while figuring that them being addicts means their lot in life is just what it is. Also doesn't help that the city and it's surroundings are frustratingly car-dependent (frustrating because several areas actually do have solid public transit, but it's not that useful unless you are rich or desperate enough to live within the city proper), but that's every city west of Montreal.
Superman does have inherently superior cakes though. I'd wear a skin tight costume and do a slow pirouette while levitating in angular light that accentuates the junk in the trunk if I were built like that too.
Remember that time she was asked to speak in front of the industries biggest publishers and said in as many words 'when the revolution comes we will bathe in your blood'? I regret not getting into her sooner, her work is amazing.
The greatest refutation to that is just the simple fact that Frank Miller really hates Superman. You don't get _that_ hated by fascists by being a fascist.
@@iopohable The idea "absolute power corrupts absolutely" itself has corrupted us. It's poison for the mind, and tells us the only way to not turn evil is to lose.
Literally any time someone says shit like that I feel the need to point out he 1.) Was created by two Jewish guys in the damn 1930s 2.) Like 99% of superheroes has the central theme of "The only acceptable use of power is in the service of those who don't have it, for little to no reward" 3.) Is an immigrant 4.) And finally, as has been said in this thread, is hated by Actual FascistTM Frank Miller
Such an oversaturated concept. The best use of it was in Justice League Unlimited; it was acknowledged that while Superman *DOES* have the potential to turn into a dictator, it was by no means *GUARANTEED,* and the harder you fight to avoid that outcome the more likely you are to kickstart it. A freaking kids show was mature enough to say, “Yeah, we know, now let’s move on.” Just wish more writers understood that it’s not such a novel or true idea.
Superman fighting capitalism, while a theme that's lasted for ages, tends to be Superman vs Villain instead of Superman vs System. Superman doesn't see the world as systems, he sees it as billions of precious human lives individually, which is great for saving lives in life-or-death scenarios, not so much great for tackling larger issues. That's why I love how this show focuses on this new struggle
This is the type of superhero media criticism I like. Just saying superheroes are fascist is alienating to most people, seeing as how superheroes are overwhelmingly popular. We should really meet people where they're at.
"(Superhero) is fascist" is also, generally, not a correct take. It's mostly made by people who are really oversimplifying fascism and the superhero in question cause frankly, they find it snappier to just call things fascist. I'd rather they point out specific, real, accurate instances of superhero comics tacitly supporting toxic ideas. They have plenty of material to work with, after all.
It's bad take in general. Superheroes are a malleable concept. They can fit a range of ideologies depending on how you use them. Why do these people never notice how people in masks trying to fix societal problems through violence (yet strictly avoiding killing) and helping the needy can very easily fit the mould of Antifa. But that's not a spicy enough take, I suppose.
@@rawalshadab3812 Exactly! Fascist superheroes are a result of fascist (or charitably, clueless liberal) writers. Superheroes as a genre and concept can easily be taken in a left wing direction, even mainstream big two ones (see: Immortal Hulk).
@@saddoro4138 Immortal Hulk is dope. "Fascist superheroes are a result of fascist (or charitably, clueless liberal) writers". The former is definitely Frank Miller, while the latter is everyone who uncritically absorbed his version of Batman and just regurgitated it without thought. Superheroes contain arguably the most frequent overt critiques of fascism that I've seen in any genre. Let's not forget that comics writers were fighting Hitler way before America as a country was. It's mindbending to me that people ignore all the evidence to dismiss the entire genre.
When you say ‘’people, please do keep in mind you’re probably speaking about one type of people....The kind that have a penis. And, historically speaking, also white. Hardly a group representative of all people, though progress is limping along behind society in a begrudgingly work fashion. I do kinda want to ruin superhero’s for everyone 😈 It’s only fair. The only heroines I had to look forward to were mostly defined in terms of opposition to the male counterpart. Also, they wore leotards and wagged their asses a lot. I tried to emulate super-heroine behavior and was scolded. So....Somehow I’m supposed to want to be like someone and hate her at the same time. And hate myself for wanting to be like her, but also realize I have to be like her to be appreciated or empowered in the way she is. Waymanhood. Batman’s a fascist.
"So you have a pitch for me?" "Yes I do Sir!" "OK tell me!" "It's about improving the show's consistency and realism while staying true to its humanistic message!" "Oh, realistic humanism is *tight!"* "Yes it is. So, Sir, isn't it bad that the only Black character is a villain?" "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but wouldn't it be hard to get more black characters in Vancouver though?" "Oh that'd be super-easy, barely an inconvenience." "Oh really?" "Yeah. There's plenty of Black, Canadian a-" "Okay well I'm gonna need you to get waaaaay off my back on this race representation thing." "... Okay, boss, let me get off of that thing." "In fact I'm gonna need you to get off off my office." "Sir?" "Was the Nazi Arsonist a reference to PhilosophyTube?" "How do you know about that?" "Unclear, so anyway why are you still here?" "... Sir, Mr. Producer Guy, I've never seen you reject a pitch no matter how insane." "First time for everything I guess!" "Would it help if I said you'd make more money?" "I do love money! But no. You're fired." [She leaves] "There' no way I'll get backlash for this decision-" [Cut to this video's thumbnail]
@Jacob Kissinger I'm going to awkwardly pretend I understood that all along and was myself only 100% joking and mot even a little bit of a condescending jerk! Schrödinger's Retroactive Humour is *tight!"*
One thing that doesn't get mentioned enough when talking about how indigenous people are treated around the world, is how they are still being repressed, killed, and driven off of lands so the resources there can be stolen.
This made me want a Superman alt-universe story where he’s raised by an indigenous family and grows up with their values, fighting against pipelines and land theft
this isn’t a direct one to one, but justice league gods and monsters has a superman who was raised by mexican migrant farmers instead of middle american ones and it definitely influences his worldview
I literally just rewatched the first part of the season and got caught up. This is the best of all the Berlanti shows. Best Lois Lane, best Superman, too.💖
@@snoopyfod1807 I suppose there is, highly defensive person on the internet. But traditionally in canon main universe stories Superman's power is just being a good person thanks to his humble upbringing, and while it can be fun to explore the darker side it tends to get boring if he can just punch his problems away.
Wow, I timed looking to see if you had a new video up quite well. Never before did I think it possible for RUclips to say 'Uploaded 2 seconds ago' Edit: Watched the vid and boy oh boy I have some Slime-y Thoughts. As someone in Kansas, quite literally everything is stolen from indigenous ppl. The state is named after the Kaw/Kansa ppl, and half the towns are named after different indigenous cultures. The football team KC Chiefs (though in Kansas City, MO it is incredibly relevant) not only has their name (Chiefs) but also has the'Tomahawk Chop' song, which didn't even come under mainstream fire until quite literally THIS YEAR. The fact is, Kansas has painted this perfect picture of quaint small town life, farms, and the Wizard of Oz, while ignoring the less palatable aspects of history (even though one of the most famous abolitionists, John Brown, was from Kansas). Ppl already don't want to discuss the reasons behind the native names with few to no natives around, and Kansas has covered the white colonialism in Red 'S's and Sparkly Shoes.
To be fair, it's not as though the modern day people of Kansas are responsible for what they're ancestors did. And I don't know a single person who looks upon what the colonists did to the natives fairly.
A lot of y'all need to read Grant Morrison Batman if you had Twitter convince you that Batman is a fascist. Not every Batman comic was written by Frank Miller.
I never thought he was a fascist, just a capitalist who is going about theoretically improving society in an incredibly ineffectual way. Is this still the case in Grant Morrison batman comics?
Hell, even a lot of mainstream takes on Batman don't really have the fascist take... Bruce Wayne in the Future State timeline is homeless, presumed dead, and still fighting to save Gotham from a police state.
@@namangoy it's hard to say that batman is ineffectual because he's saved the universe multiple times. Comic billionaires are the only billionaires who can justify their existence.
Yeah, although I see why people get confused. He has a massive savior complex. Batman isn't about authority, leadership, amassing power, or controlling people. There's literally only two situations where he is: in alternate universes where he's evil (like a large number of the Dark Knights, or when he's a vampire), or else during the lead-up to Infinite Crisis, where he had just discovered he had been mindraped by the Justice League and kinda became unhinged for a bit until Dick almost died. Jason Todd is more of a fascist than Batman.
How many superman comics have you read? Because if this sounds compelling to you I highly recommend both superman smashes the klan and superman birthright.
Just finished watching superman and Louis - by far the best adaptation since the original movies. Not to mention by far the most believable superman since Christopher Reeves. Brilliant!
never been so early on a slime sesh! gotta say im loving the new energy uve been bringing to the vids the last weeks/months :)) much love from a fellow enby
Supergirl is a nice show on the surface that ends up being the perfect example of (neo)liberal representation and girlboss characters, with their sympathetic billionaires and entrepreneurs
I’ve always said Smallville is a superhero show for people who liked Dawson’s Creek. I like both shows but for the love of god I wished they’d played their own genre straight for a change.
The first flight scene in Man of Steel made me tear up the first time I saw it. Everything about that scene just ripped my heart out Kano-style, and even to this day, still makes me take a deep breath of appreciation. Also, I agree with Osiris: Disney fucked IP law up royal. If only we can legally make and distribute our own Superman stories.
@@davidcolby167 Evil Superman is a fine trope, but evil Clark Kent is so boring. He's so much more interesting as this enigmatically boyscoutish alien with incredible power. Like, why is such a sweetie? What a nice young spaceman, what an inspiration.
@@tombrown407 I'm kinda curious what would happen if Clark Kent was written to keep that boyscoutish charm while also becoming an revolutionary extremist terrorist. Whether that counts as "evil" would depend on how you view violence as a solution to oppression, but I think that element would really make sense coming out of his general approach of trying to save the world, but as a dark mirror of it while not being as randomly destructive as it seems "Evil Superman" tends to be. However, it would also require the writers be able to actually tackle class issues. Think nice charming doofy sweetheart who doesn't hesitate for one second to massacre every CEO and billionaire once he realizes just how fucked up things are. I mean, knowing him, he'd probably let them plead their case first, but the moment they show themselves as unrepentant they just get laser-eyed, no questions asked. Actually, thinking more about this, I'm getting ideas for how Clark Kent factors in. Namely that, as he is in a writer position (or possibly, through intimidation or murder, becomes editor of the Daily Planet), he can use that position to legitimize the violent acts he performs as Superman, becoming the social/political wing to Superman's military wing of this one-man terrorist outfit. No reason for him to stop being a doofy sweetheart there either, just that it might become ambiguous how much of that is him still being himself despite waging a bloody guerilla war, and how much of that is a mask designed to cover for that violence.
@@dominiccasts I mean, sure, but also, obviously not. If Clark starts murdering bad people then he ceases to be that boyscout. Anti-Capitalist Superman would be based as fuck, but I feel like the Clark Kent way would be to leverage his enormous power to force a non violent conclusion. And sure, Capital gonna capital, they'll probably try and kryptonite him and put him in situations where he has to get a bit scrappy. But pure of heart boyscout style Anti-Capitalist Superman strikes me as more of a mutual aid, community allotment, feed the poor by appropriating Capitals ill gotten gains sort of guy. Basically a super powered Robin Hood.
10:55 More to the point, as someone living in Vancouver who has some connection to the screen acting world there (mostly through acting lessons and befriending some of the teachers) there absolutely are black actors in Vancouver they could have easily hired that would have knocked it out of the park.
It's lowkey a dealbreaker for me how Sam Lane isn't an asshole lol. Like, my favorite Superman and Lois era is in the late 90's-early 00s where he's basically explicitly evil. Also, its good to hear that "the stranger" ends up not being a total baddie, but a pilot is extremely important and the only 2 black characters we see are in antagonistic roles (the bf of the girl jordan kisses without asking first, who's arguably justified, but placed in an antagonistic role). So when I heard the news of the behind the scenes, it made sense to me.
As the show goes on General Lane is consistently shown to be wrong, and each member of his family stands up to him and does the right thing anyway. I think he is a great character because he meant to represent the very common American notion of doing the wrong thing for the right reason.
@@Mallory-Malkovich Wait really? Geez, I watched the first half of the season and i felt no indication they were going in this much more interesting direction. Like, when they sent the one kid off to a school, it really bothered me both as a disabled person and as someone who's read last son of krypton lol. Might give it another shot with this knowledge, but they really should have made some of this clearer earlier on!
@@ThoughtSlime WHAT thats not the vibe i got from the first few episodes. Really really bothered me when Clark let him send that kid off to that school
@Gavin 01 its fine that you like it, but pilots (the first episodes of a show) are uhhh EXTREMELY important for viewers deciding whether or not to engage, and this show made a lot of mistakes there. And wow, I never knew that lots of shows had white male antagonists! It's not like I literally studied this in college! I'll condemn whatever the hell I want to condemn, like that lazy intro where Clark calls his neurodivergent son more "difficult" than the neurotypical one and the fact that a Black writer's concerns about how race was presented in the pilot were treated with no regard (as shown in this video).
Gonna be honest, I think it's actually Quite likely that the people making the show didn't think about the colonization thing. It's just not the kind of thing most people think about, because the colonial nature of any given settlement in America is really really really deemphasized in our culture. (Which is a problem) Also, unless the show made specific reference to the local indigenous people at any other point, it would feel a little thematically out there. Not saying there's no way it could be done well, just that, if that was the only time the show explicitly references real life colonization, it would probably ring a bit hollow.
Yeah, the writers not being aware is a whole other issue, assuming that is the case. Both scenarios (the execs saying no/discouraging it or the writers not even realizing it) are pretty bad. I think Mildred addressed that though, but yeah I totally agree, definitely a problem either way.
I can’t help but think of all the white leftists who are like “how dare you call me a coloniser, my ancestors were colonisers sure, but I just live here” reading your comment
I was watching a debate the other day and noticed something similar to what you pointed at in this video about the discourse around colonialism and the US. It was argued that you can't really call the US rich because of the massive economical gaps as a counter argument to the amount of wealth and value that capitalism generated. The point that was ignored here is just that the amount of capital the US (and most other countries in the world) has was accumulated through aggressive and destructive imperialist practices which we are all familiar with. I think this is something that reflects US politicians in general and infects people's discourse, but there is a trend of ignoring how much of a massive dickhead the US is and how its imperialist practices shaped its economy amd affected the rest of the world, especially how it made everyone poorer and miserable in order to maintain its power and status.
@@notsecure6855 I think the comment was sarcasm, pointing out that there are many actors availble to play diverse characters in Vancouver, because it is a multicultural city. The "or anything" is the tip that it is sarcasm.
The story set on Smallville ,Kansas. Where the majority people are white Stop all of this diversity BS. They already put Asian and Biracial characters on said city. When will it be enough?
What... exactly could Superman do about a genocide in the 1800s/1900s? Stick his dick in the timeline like Barry? Overthrow America? I don't really think Superman can do anything about that unless he goes fascist. And it would be really... weird for a storyline. "Superman goes back in time and undoes atrocities" is an interesting Elseworlds, but I don't see how it would have been a good story for anything not exploring the ramifications of one guy controlling history. As for overthrowing governments to enforce his beliefs, well, we have a lot of those Superman stories. They're mostly terrible.
@@vortexflash4944 Thanks. Like, could it have been mentioned? Yeah, sure, although if it wasn't done perfectly it would come across as highly anvilicious. But Superman can't really do much about these things without going full Justice Lord. And I use the Justice Lords as the example because that's still the best variant of that plot. Good enough that the writers admitted that they were trying to write Justice Lord Batman to lose his argument with main Batman, realized he literally could not lose that argument, and had to rewrite the plot somewhat so that main Batman has to guilt trip Justice Lord Batman with "our parents would be ashamed of you" to change his mind. Side note: Justice Lord Batman's winning line in the argument is one of my favorite moments in the DCAU.
@@PosthumanHeresy I agree. It’s been a while since I watched the justice lords storyline, hence why I’m on a DCAU rewatch now. It’s annoying when people are actually trying to suggest Superman needs to be more active in government decisions. Injustice and the Justice Lords are a precautionary tale as to what that leads too. What makes Supes a good person, is that he practices good will and helps others, but also follows the book as much as possible. Unlike Batman, who often conducts his own private investigations through illegal means, any investigating Supes does is as Clark when reporting. And he refrains from being judge, jury, and executioner. He’s just a really powerful Good Samaritan.
@@vortexflash4944 Yeah, the concept really only could work out by the power of plot convenience. Firstly because at least half the planet would side with Lex Luthor immediately. Secondly because it's really hard to write a story where Superman fixes everything. Thirdly because, well, it's not a realistic example to set. It's an example nobody should aspire to, because you aren't Superman. I fully believe that if Superman actually stayed in character with his beliefs of right and wrong he could logically and easily run the world better than we do (assuming he got there by like... humanity asking him to rule the world to save us from ourselves). But there is no Superman here, and anyone trying to take over the world irl is not a hero. But with that said, there's things about the Justice Lords that are appealing. There's a bleak sense of hope in the idea that maybe someone better could put our "leaders" under their bootheel, that maybe someone could make the exploiters feel how we feel, and would at least try making a world for us instead of bleeding us dry to make paradise for themselves. The problem is just the twofold "it's not a good story for the heroes to take over the world and fix things so everyone lives happily ever after" and "it's a terrible thing to aspire to irl". But the appeal is there, and I guess even ThoughtSlime falls into it at times. Can't judge, there were times during the Trump years I wouldn't have been able to confidently make this argument because... maybe it would be better.
Superman doesn't have to undo the genocides or anything, that's not the point. The point is that he needs to know about it and confront the fact that his hometown is a product of colonialism and all that the atrocities that came with. IMO it would make for an interesting moral conflict for this show's version of Superman, who's dedicated to get Smallville back on its legs and return it to the idyllic small town he remembered it as. You'd need to handle it with care but you have to do that with anything dealing with social issues or past atrocities
I agree with every word of this - but also wanted to shout out how much I appreciate you directly linking to Dundurn Press for The Doomsday Book of Fairy Tales. The small press scene in Canada can always use the boost (also, it is a good book!!)
I feel like the idea of Superman as the personification of the capacity of compassionate community to perform seemingly miraculous acts is a much more nuanced view of Superman, rather than "powerful people will save us".
I was like “wow, this is pretty progressive for a CW show” (speaking as a fan of Supernatural) and then I got to the part about Nadia Tucker, and I was like “oh, there it is.”
really like how fair and balanced this video is, not a fan of people completely defending this show (or other mainstream media) against behind the scenes wrongdoing because they’re fans, or people blindly hating the show and calling the viewers and the end product itself racist or problematic because of the firing. i’m glad that there’s still room for nuance with stuff like this.
As a Black person that has been vastly disappointed in the direction of ALL the Arrowverse shows EXCEPT for Superman and Lois I like the direction of the show and that the show dismissed any pitch that was/is the same crap that has wrecked all the other shows on the CW ( admittedly I have not watched Stargirl so I don't know if that is a good or bad show) however, I have watched every other Superhero property on the Network and Superman and Lois is by far the best. It is telling to me that the Network keeps trying to sabotage the shows momentum by all these extended hiatuses were they replace this actually good show with the other crappy shows on their Network....I hope next season they keep up the good writing and compelling storytelling and they don't fall victim to the Arrowverse curse of one almost great season and the rest is crap because we care more about agendas than good storytelling that honors the characters they are trying to depict.
The thing about Superman that I always found inspirational as a kid (and still do) is that he is a character with absolute power who is not absolutely corrupted. I've always found that line to be vapid and it plays a big part in why I hate Injustice. I struggle to believe Captain America or Superman would ever be evil. Anytime they are written as evil I just think "Yeah, I've seen this character before. There are thousands of them already, but an eternally hopeful being? Be they nearly mortal or basically a god? That's fun."
I'm currently at exactly 9 minutes and I'm completely sold and ready to watch this show. I'll give an update if i still plan to at the end of the video
@@computer_trash You're free to watch or not watch whatever you want, but a word of warning before engaging in ideological boycotts. What message do you think WB would take away from this show not doing well? Would it be that they need to make their writing rooms more equitable because this bit of harassment which (to my knowledge at least) has received very little publicity occurred? Or would it be that this kind of nuanced, vaguely anti-capitalist Superman doesn't sell and they need to go back to the white bread all-American Superman that doesn't challenge anything?
final notes - very good video. I will probably give the show a watch due to valid points brought up in the video about how everything sucks, but i now know some things to be aware of
@@SirPhysics that's an entirely valid point. I mentioned in a different comment that I'll probably still give it a go, it seems up my alley. I probably wouldn't have watch it at all, had it not been brought up here. but yea, you're entirely right that WB would probably take a boycott on behalf of diversity and representation the wrong way
@@SirPhysics It doesn't need to be a boycott though; it could just be a person deciding their finite time on this Earth would be better spent elsewhere. Yes, it's better to support such nuance even if it isn't perfect, but if someone changes their mind because they don't think they'd enjoy the show, while it'd be great to watch the first episode or two before making that decision, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. And let's be honest... the WB is going to cancel this show before long anyway because everything good but atypical isn't usually a smash-hit or because the budget for fantasy/sci-fi/superhero shows is a lot higher than the average sitcom or reality TV show and eventually some exec will get antsy and pull the plug to pave the way for one of those. It's nice to give them feedback but ultimately you can't be certain that watching something will send the correct message to the studio about why it succeeded or failed and you can't guarantee that even if it becomes popular it won't get cancelled.
The old show "Lois and Clark" had a joke where Clark has an awesome body, but his kitchen is filled with nothing but Kiddies' cereal. "You eat like this... and look like that?"
its a bad and pervasive myth (that i have definitely been guilty of) that vancouver "doesnt have black people" here and its like yes we do we just ignore and marginalize them !! high cost of living socioeconomic relationship to neighbourhoods etc
For those who don't read comics, superman has had a son for the past 5-7 years or so in comics. He's about ten in comics and just kinda great. Idk, I just really like that superman is now a positive role model for fatherhood as well and that DC seems to be sticking with Jonathan and not panicking at the idea of any change to the status quo.
Yeah but...all of Tucker's accusations were flat out false. Everything she said about the show just...wasn't true. Maybe, just maybe, she was actually a detriment to the production and was justifiably let go? No? Maybe?
@@joelhenry5489 None of the black "villains" are villains, and no one gives a shit that there aren't more black characters--the show has a wide cast of every ethnicity. The funny thing about this entire video is that alt-righters criticize the show for being too 'woke' for a number of reasons like "race-mixing/the first time Superman saved Lois/the main villain-villain is a white man". Maybe it's just a show and people should try not to view it though the lens of 100% politics? It's tiresome.
I love your argument about indigenous people. However, the thing about tucker is all we have is her word, she says there was no indication before the contract's no renewal there could've been. I love the fact that JHI is black but it is never pointed out as something odd or unique, he's a guy his story is what matters not his race.
I completely agree and just wanted to add another minor critique of this video (I know it's 4 months late lol). He points out the parallels between the Kryptonian take-over of Smallville and the colonial take-over of America, and while there are valid parallels, it doesn't invalidate Superman's argument that "the people of Smallville don't deserve this." The modern day people of Kansas do not somehow have to be punished for the actions of ancestors generations ago. Not to mention much of Smallville isn't even white, so they very possibly didn't have ancestors relating to this subject.
*Big Spoilers* I feel like mishandling Steel, yannow “John Henry” Irons and all his heavy symbolism, in a story all about small town workers being destroyed by The capitalist Machine really betrays a lack of understanding of the ideas at play. All of the concepts inherent to the character could’ve been used to humanize him in the early stages of the story and tie him back into the main Narrative, but that advice wasn’t taken because I imagine most of those writers didn’t view the character as a whole being in himself, (for /some/ reason) but a part of Superman’s narrative and nothing more.
I've never stopped thinking about that Facebook post that said something to the effect of, "People who complain about comic books becoming too 'political' are just mad that they've grown up to be the kind of person that their favorite heroes punch in the face."
I haven't seen this show yet, but it's pretty surprising to me to hear that there aren't many POC characters, considering how diverse the casts of Arrow, The Flash, and other related shows have been.
There are Asian and Biracial characters on it. And not a villain. Also, the story takes place on Smallville, Kansas. A place where most people there are white. Stop spewing BS before You watch it.
@@ridwana4037 Brush up on your reading skills, dude. I'm not 'spewing BS', I'm expressing sadness at the claim made IN THE VIDEO that Superman and Lois has few Black characters, seeing how all the other Arrowverse shows have prominent characters with melanin. Sure, it takes place in Kansas. I get it. I'm from rural Illinois. Anyway, thanks for the info that there are other POC on the show.
When Supergirl tackles racism, transphobia, it is mocked and there is negative backlash so they are avoiding such storylines in Superman & Lois. People do not support shows that does good representation. They only create RUclips videos or tweet in social media. That's why these shows are moving away from social issues and focusing on centrist contents (or a tad center-right)
They still love to insert little nuggets of propaganda into Superman and Lois here and there. “The men never thought a woman like me, much less a _black woman,_ could be a firefighter...” Stop. Just...stop
Smallville also started out being all about how the difference between Clark and Lex was in how they were raised. But then as it went a weird sense Fatalism kind of took over, but I still highly praise the entire first 4 seasons.
Your comparison of the villain's plan to kill humans and replace them to native American genocide isn't wrong, but I think it would've been a pretty big stretch to insert that into the show. It's not like Superman would support native American genocide. I'm 100% sure he'd be staunchly opposed to it, and would've fought to prevent it if he had been alive at the time, but since he wasn't, it's not something he had any power to stop and he shouldn't feel guilty about it. Also, the people of Smallville are innocent of that event for the same reason. You could argue that Superman has the power to materially improve conditions for native Americans now, and it's be great if he did that, but that's a different conversation and gets into what the optimal way for Superman to use his powers really would be
Thank you for sparking some thoughts that led me to what I hope is a good Insight on the character of Superman. Without Clark, the decent person who was taught to live virtuously by his parents, there _is_ no Superman, there's just some overpowered asshole in a cape. It is kind of like One Punch Man, which makes the protagonist so overpowered that the physical fight is moot, and forces you to think about all the things around it that shaped the conflict in the first place.
I liked that The Stranger was presented as a villain in the beginning and the secret that he isn't even who they portray him (a different character completely) to be a nice surprise. I just find his sons to be a disappointment. Your parents are Lois Lane and Superman! They might know what they're talking about! Listen to them!
Because you always listened to your parents right? To their kids Clark is just another dad. It doesn't matter if he's also superman. Because you are the viewer but for the people in the show he's just another guy.
Oh the WB has a HUGE STAKE IN ANY SHOW'S IDEALOGICAL STANCE. There is a reason why shows like S&L and Stargirl are well received compared to the rest of the remaining arrowverse shows that are very gradually declining in quality. The reason show's like Batwoman fail is probably because they have to many Nadria Tuckers' on their writing staff too focused on pushing political and racial ideologies instead of telling a compelling story with compelling characters. Gay people are portrayed as obnoxious and insufferable Jerks and men are emasculated. Black people are told that they are victims of an evil racist society. Superman and Lois spits in the face of what people like Nadria Tucker want to promote, because it shows a connected family unit, a strong male and strong female character working side by side with each other, with neither attempting to do the other's job, neither being portrayed as better than the other, no race or gender or identify politics whatsoever. I'm not one to wish unemployment on ANYBODY, but people with agendas like Nadria Tucker shouldn't have a job that will involve them twisting and using a property to spread their ideologies rather than telling great stories.
I take issue with your notion that all big newspapers are owned by billionaires IRL therefore firing critical reporters would be unnecessary. I work at a newspaper in a town of about 130,000. It’s owned by Gannett, a major media conglomerate. But we are the only shop in town doing critical, investigative reporting involving local government, local police, local companies, etc. The corporation that owns us, located 1,000 miles away, has no bearing on our reporting. If one of the major corporations based in our city that we report on bought our newspaper, I guarantee you they would have a reason to fire us, fire us for doing actual reporting on regulatory violations, workplace safety, etc. In fact, if more people were willing to chip in $5-$10 a month (a few bottles of soda in terms of cost) for newspapers, they wouldn’t be owned by major media companies and billionaires. Almost all newspapers were owned by single families or co-ops, especially local papers historically. And there are serious issues with journalism etc., trust me, but I’d argue hat financially supporting newspapers has huge benefits for everyone. Without them, there’s only the government to hold the government accountable, especially with regard to city and state governments. Just my 2 cents as someone in the business.
See, I was confused about the twist in Morgan Edge's storyline because the initial episodes seemed like it was setting a large commentary on how big corporations are corrupt. He felt more like Lois' villain but I didn't like how he became Clark's because I felt like it took away from the real life issue Smallville was going through.
If she wasn’t fired from the show, it would’ve turned out to be just another CW superhero show bogged down by stupid and unnecessary politics. I am so glad that she was fired because I have no doubt she would’ve ruined the show. John Henry Irons isn’t a villain, he’s originally portrayed as such to show him to be a 3 dimensional character, and actually having a well constructed character arc. The woman who was fired would’ve made him just a be great person straight away, and be absolutely only 2 dimensional and remove all conflicts which that character would’ve had with Superman. That is not doing justice for the shows black characters. And 3.5% of the Canadian population isn’t a large amount of black people, that’s roughly only 3 in a 100 actors which could be casted for a specific role, what’s the likelihood that 100 actors are even going to audition for a role, let alone the 3 black actors being the best choice for the role. Not to mention none of the characters in the show are originally black besides John Henry Irons and his daughter and to raceswap other characters would be pathetic and stupid. Also if the show had a bunch of black people in it, well, it wouldn’t just make no sense seeing the fact that it’s based in Kansas (a largely white populated place), but it would be completely inaccurate from the comics, which btw were written by 2 Jewish men during the period of WW2. Your criticisms are completely unfounded and only found through your skewed view of reality through the lens of being a leftist. This show is literally praised by all walks of life, it’s not just a show right-wing people like, I’ve seen radical left-wing people that love it with a passion. This show isn’t in anyway unethical, if you’ve come to that conclusion your just plain stupid.
the writer being fired reminded me of my last job, I was writing for a phone game and the two head guys kept 'suggesting' I write the story in a ways that were clearly based on 'top ten ways to keep the reader engaged' clickbait sites. I kept trying to tell them you can't write a damn story like that. Considering I was the one with the Creative writing and English degree and they weren't you'd expect them to take my advice. Nope. I got fired because I was being 'difficult'. And lets not get into the job I had before that where I wasn't allowed to make any of the characters gay. For all aspiring writers out there, the industry WILL demand you kill most of your creativity in order to not scare their target demographic or, just because the guy in charge thinks he can write and tell you how to write better.
Dear Thumb Skunk. I love you. Can you in the future maybe make a full video to elaborate your point on the "what's the difference between a food and a drug" trend you were getting into in the chat the other night?
Just a quick reminder that if Disney hadn't spent many years and millions of dollars to change copyright laws Superman would be in the public domain right now and anyone could make whatever Superman story they liked.
I see that having so many ups and pluses as well as many downs and negatives.
But still I like to see a fresh new story of Superman whenever I can
@@thatmotivatedchris6749 What are the negatives, exactly?
@@thatmotivatedchris6749 Yeah but ThoughtSlime's point about controlling the means of media distribution still stands. Otherwise we'd have way more gay Sherlock Holmes stories in traditional mediums.
@@DiThi a lot of them would be very bad and thus you'd have to sift through them to find the good Superman stories, and also anyone could just make Nazi propaganda with him with essentially no recourse, and could potentially just make him a Nazi icon.
Copyright is dumb but people act like "everyone can use a character with no restrictions" would have zero negative consequences because they can't think past "I can make fanfics and fanfilms with no worry."
@@NAFEDUDE There's many ways to avoid that work. For example a forum with votes, something like Reddit, where the most voted ones are probably the best. Or better, an ELO like system where you don't rate stories, but compare a pair and decide which is better.
You know what I hate? When people act like superman is the immortal detached emotionless god. Superman was raised on earth by farmers, in the animated series he cracks jokes, he cares about people, he’s very HUMAN despite being born an alien.
The spectre of Mort Weisinger casts a long shadow over the character.
DC has taken the idea of 'gods' for their characters a bit too far. Forgetting its really not as deep as it may seem. There is potential but its ultimately not the goldmine of good ideas some think it is.
Zack Snyder wants to know your location
Same sort of thing happens to Batman, he balances lightheartedness and stoicism in the animated series but he's so gruff and dumb in the games and movies.
@@8BitsOfFun1323 I love how he’s a rebellious asshole sometimes in justice league and unlimited
"Ok, fine, I guess we can name both children after YOUR family." - Lois, probably
My mother got three out of four and was still pissed she didn't get four out of four.
@@camelopardalis84 Man! That's silly
To be fair… if they had a daughter, they would’ve named her after Lois’ grandmother. Plus, I think Lois wouldn’t want to name any of her kids after her dad.
@@DragonTrainer201 That is fair! I don't know anything about her father--he bad?
@@merthsoft It depends on what continuity you're reading, but he's usually a general in a secret government organization that's out to Make Earth Great Again by kicking out all the aliens, stopping positive news coverage of aliens, and just general "ends justify the means of keeping us safe from those darn dirty aliens" stuff.
EDIT: Wait, am I confusing him with General Ross from the Hulk, or do they have basically the same deal, but aimed at different kinds of superheroes their daughters married?
So, the showrunners understand Superman, and just don't act like him?
EDIT: Yup. Nifty.
@Erwin Lii that's surprised me, really. It's not a requirement, but it would be nice to see that nod to the origins.
@That Hippie Gamer Would add a whole to meaning to that S symbol on the chest :P
@That Hippie Gamer yep a jewish superman would be perfect
It would kind of like how after ww2 the jews survived hardship (krypton destroyed) fled their homes and were now improving
But then superman turns evil and thinks hes the good guy much like the Zionists are doing in israel. Story goes full circle and superman becomes the villain
@Erwin Lii It literally doesn’t matter. All that matters is that the actor looks like the character.
Great idea.
Wonder Woman should be portrayed by a white male psychologist from now on.
The idea that superheroes should help people who need help just because they are in an extraordinary position to do so reminds me of a quote: "From each according to their ability, and to each according to their need."
Every time I heard "Superman is boring because he's overpowered" I just know that it's likely that person has never read a Superman comic. There's a reason he's still around!
It really depends on the comic. There are plenty of boring Superman stories in which he's written way too strong to the point of trivializing almost all conflicts save for Kryptonite showing up at inopportune times.
Comic writing varies greatly in quality and content.
@@Straviradius I mean when it's a character been around for almost 100 years there going to be some bad ones.
to be fair, im pretty sure he dies in one of them
@Dapper MrAlex Well, if you want a good telling of his origin story, I very much recommend "Superman: Birthright". While you're no doubt aware of his story, this is a great retelling of it. As ThoughtSlime said in the video, his parents are important to who Superman is.
Just a good Superman story? All-Star Superman hands down. Hard to summarize, but basically a story of coming to terms with mortality.
A story where they actually address the whole "You're just a big boring boy scout" idea? "What's so funny about Truth, Justice, and The American Way" is a favorite of mine.
Superman For All Seasons is a great "Year in the life of" type story.
I got more but even just finding snippets of his good moments from stories. Like when Joker was going to kill Clark Kent. There's a slowmotion bit where he's sitting there at a computer and Joker is behind him with a mallet. Meanwhile, Clark is trying to think how he's going to be able to sell the head injury in a nonlethal way so as not to give up his identity.
@@thewinter_ and came back
It's kinda ironic that the filming of this show happens in the poorest neighborhood in Canada similarly to how the billionaire villain seems to view Smallville... I just substituted "Vancouver's DTES" whenever you said "Smallville" and it very much echoed my sentiments down here!
Thought Slime, every time: "Hello, and welcome to the 'I Ball' Zone"
You do ball, indeed.
Goin hard in da paint on those capitalist fuckos
Sl(I'm)e fuckin ballin
The note at 14 mins is making the very big assumption that Europeans were not given guns by space aliens.
Just look at all those glorious old buildings in Europe and the lowly state its current inhabitants are in. Clearly aliens must have had a hand in building them.
edit: Just to make clear, this was not intended to make any kind of point about immigration. Just a joke applying the "aliens built pyramids" idea to who it never gets applied to.
@@Crowley9 To be fair they applied it to the Nazis in an episode. And I think there is a double standard in this criticism as there is no issue in dismissing the accounts from people in the sky coming down as mere superstition versus an account of what happened.
China is part of space now?
@@jimmynyarlathotep6857 It's the Middle Kingdom between Earth and heaven, so I assume it's location is somewhere in the upper atmosphere?
@@andrewfsheffield you are a blast! :)
"That arsonist, by the way, is a neonazi-"
Can't believe you missed a perfect opportunity for a Philosophy Tube reference.
What does philosophy tube have to do with this?
@@lukelyon1781 she has a recurring character who is a neonazi arsonist
@@cartoonhippie6610 since when? I've literally never seen that in any of her videos and I've watched almost every single video she's put out.
@@lukelyon1781 It's the dude reading newspaper and calmly-but-also-erotically discussing the "terrible" news about things catching fire.
@@sebbychou in what videos?
So the bad guy is explicitly Jeff Bezos.
More like Bezos is Lex Luthor irl
with hair
@@wingedangel911 lex luthor is a scientist and engineer jeff bezos is just a boy in perpetual middle age crisis
@@wingedangel911 that’s an insult to Lex Luthor.
I kind of got some Bloomberg vibes
The comparisons of real, historical genocides (Native Americans by European colonists) and potential, fictional genocides (humans by space aliens) was touched on a bit by one of Supergirl's big bads, season 4's Ben Lockwood (aka, Agent Liberty). Obviously, he used that actual history to stoke fear and anger against people who were essentially extraterrestrial refugees. He was an interesting character.
Marvel comics does this but way friggin worse. Especially X-Men and Inhuman comics series have become really bad about this by dipping into some (frankly) Ethno-nationalist talking points. One of the worst series of comics that does this shit is the House of X/Power of X series, which is all about a returned Charles Xavier (who died the pervious series, killed off by Cyclops) who now has seen the light and realized that it's best if "we all just stick to our own". The funny thing is is the fact that this comic is one of the best representations of how self-defeating Ethno-nationalism is, namely because it goes through ten possible futures (with Wolverine and Moira Mctaggart as the main character) in which every single one the mutants lose to humanity. No matter what they do (attempted genocide, war, escape to a different planet) it all turns out the exact same way, with all the mutants on a reservation on Earth as humanity continues to evolve and develop more and more technology. While I don't like this series tacit endorsement of Ethno-nationalist talking points, I do like the fact that it's brutally honest that no matter what the mutants do (aside from integration) ends with them losing and getting lost in humanity's collective dust trial.
Non-mutants are totally allowed to live in Krakoa though.
@@spacecadet9663 the whole mutant thing doesn't work as well as an allegory for classic racism because mutants can pop up anywhere from any one like there isn't a whole mutant culture
@@Dracon7601 I mean, depending on which comic you read that is true. There is one comic series in the X-Men franchise that talks about that sorta classic discrimination against mutant culture (specifically New X-Men 2001; Riot at Xavier's) were a mutant fashion designer ends up dying after being beaten up by humans. The crime takes place in a part of New York called mutant town, where it is specifically mentioned by the human detective how the human residents of New York don't really like how mutants culture is. Then again that might've been a bad choice for the whole discrimination though, because it turns out in the end that the fashion designer died from a drug overdose. I also think that same series touched on cultural appropriation (although they didn't call it that) by showing a group of humans (called the third species) which try to become mutants by implanting themselves with mutant organs. That group always gave me real "Get out" vibes too.
@@spacecadet9663 Maybe I'm wrong but is it possible that's the point? Could be a long con, but what if the culmination of this era is the realization that the whole Krakoa thing was a bad idea all along?
"Lord Oculon, please, bestow upon us your mercy, for we are not worthy!"
"Uh... okay, you can send one more email."
*Exactly* one more.
His mercy is indeed great. All hail our Lord Long-eyes. 🙏 🧿👁️
Okay but the irony of the poverty etc in Smallville and the actual place this was filmed... This was filmed in Vancouver BCs poorest postal code, and the film crews moved in for filming and continuously harassed the unhoused community members. I live around the corner from where they were filming.
Not me typing that at 5 minutes then panicking at 11 because ya pulled a bamboozle...
Okay, now that I'm actually done watching... Uhm, if anyone reads this then ya better strap in because I might go on a tangent. Also TW for OD's and Unalives..
*To start off I immediately had a sad moment feels because one of the scenes shown was actually the last time I saw a friend of mine. We were talking on the street beside the filming about how they were mistreating the community members. He was an amazing person that cared allot about the community and actively tried to keep people safe. He OD'd shortly after this situation, so the feels were pretty strong.*
TW Over...
I personally haven't watched the show because of the reason above, so I wasn't fully aware of the controversy that's talked about in this video. While I am very happy there is a conversation about the racist aspects of the show I feel slightly let down about the topic I mentioned in my first comment. But tbh I'm not in the slightest surprised that it won't be a topic for future debates.
So the community that this was filmed in is the Downtown Eastside (DTES) of Vancouver BC, which is the poorest postal code in (arguably) all of BC. It is also the epicenter for the fentanyl crisis and the community for allot of displaced Indigenous people. Vancouver is a filming city, you've all heard the jokes about watching TV with a Vancouverite and their inability to not comment on location. Something that isn't talked about is their mistreatment of community members while filming in the DTES. I have personally seen countless people being harassed and berated by security and staff of film sets while they are filming in these houseless peoples homes. Because this is such a common thing, no one really discusses it. It's just one of those back burner conversations that extends far past the movie industry vs. unhoused people.
We are currently going through a housing crisis, fentanyl crisis, pandemic, and mass houseless evictions. People are being evicted from tent cities every single day and then being promised social housing that either doesn't exist, or is so dehumanizing that they end up moving back outside. Fun fact, allot of this social housing doesn't allow guests so people are actively using alone and unaliving because no one is there incase something goes wrong...
I could go significantly farther into this, but this is already a stacked comment so I'll leave it at that.
I don't mean to take away from your video Thought Slime, just wanted to add more to the conversation. Thank you so much for all the videos you put out, I truly love your content.
@Turnip Head that is so, so awful and that is a conversation that needs to be had, I had no idea about this
@@turniphead1214 Upvoting your comments, what you just described is disgusting and should be talked about more.
@@MrPiptron If you don't live in Vancouver or the surrounding area it's not really a big story, especially since Vancouver gets so hyped up as this amazing city, but that's just playground of the rich bullshit. Actually living here is amazingly frustrating for how much the place is stuck in this weird space politically where everyone's aware of the housing problems and associated crises, but figures that either nothing can be done (since house price increases have a ratcheting effect; land is kinda scarce due to being between rivers, mountains, and the U.S. border; and a constant influx of rich Hong Kong money that's been pouring into the housing market since China got them back), or is stuck in the kind of vaguely progressive yet unfailingly individualistic attitude that's typical of major cities these days, which keeps them from doing more than pitying the homeless while figuring that them being addicts means their lot in life is just what it is.
Also doesn't help that the city and it's surroundings are frustratingly car-dependent (frustrating because several areas actually do have solid public transit, but it's not that useful unless you are rich or desperate enough to live within the city proper), but that's every city west of Montreal.
Fascism: The strong has to command the weak
Superheroes: The strong has to protect the weak
HUGE DIFFERENCE!
"From each according to their ability to each according to their need."
You had me at Superman fighting a Neo-Nazi AND Lois falling for CLARK first as opposed to Superman!
Superman does have inherently superior cakes though. I'd wear a skin tight costume and do a slow pirouette while levitating in angular light that accentuates the junk in the trunk if I were built like that too.
Ursula Le Guin slays on this point regarding publishers
Ursula le Guin slays full stop
She slaps
Remember that time she was asked to speak in front of the industries biggest publishers and said in as many words 'when the revolution comes we will bathe in your blood'?
I regret not getting into her sooner, her work is amazing.
@@z.adkins862 Is there any video or text online? Would like to hear/read that speech.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei just tagging in case someone has it
God it's nice to hear someone talk about Superman without pushing up their glasses and going "actually, did you know that superman is an fascist?"
The greatest refutation to that is just the simple fact that Frank Miller really hates Superman. You don't get _that_ hated by fascists by being a fascist.
I could never understand why people project that on to superman so much. he was always nice guy farm man.
@@iopohable The idea "absolute power corrupts absolutely" itself has corrupted us. It's poison for the mind, and tells us the only way to not turn evil is to lose.
Literally any time someone says shit like that I feel the need to point out he
1.) Was created by two Jewish guys in the damn 1930s
2.) Like 99% of superheroes has the central theme of "The only acceptable use of power is in the service of those who don't have it, for little to no reward"
3.) Is an immigrant
4.) And finally, as has been said in this thread, is hated by Actual FascistTM Frank Miller
Such an oversaturated concept.
The best use of it was in Justice League Unlimited; it was acknowledged that while Superman *DOES* have the potential to turn into a dictator, it was by no means *GUARANTEED,* and the harder you fight to avoid that outcome the more likely you are to kickstart it. A freaking kids show was mature enough to say, “Yeah, we know, now let’s move on.” Just wish more writers understood that it’s not such a novel or true idea.
Superman fighting capitalism, while a theme that's lasted for ages, tends to be Superman vs Villain instead of Superman vs System. Superman doesn't see the world as systems, he sees it as billions of precious human lives individually, which is great for saving lives in life-or-death scenarios, not so much great for tackling larger issues. That's why I love how this show focuses on this new struggle
This is the type of superhero media criticism I like. Just saying superheroes are fascist is alienating to most people, seeing as how superheroes are overwhelmingly popular. We should really meet people where they're at.
"(Superhero) is fascist" is also, generally, not a correct take. It's mostly made by people who are really oversimplifying fascism and the superhero in question cause frankly, they find it snappier to just call things fascist. I'd rather they point out specific, real, accurate instances of superhero comics tacitly supporting toxic ideas. They have plenty of material to work with, after all.
It's bad take in general. Superheroes are a malleable concept. They can fit a range of ideologies depending on how you use them. Why do these people never notice how people in masks trying to fix societal problems through violence (yet strictly avoiding killing) and helping the needy can very easily fit the mould of Antifa. But that's not a spicy enough take, I suppose.
@@rawalshadab3812 Exactly! Fascist superheroes are a result of fascist (or charitably, clueless liberal) writers. Superheroes as a genre and concept can easily be taken in a left wing direction, even mainstream big two ones (see: Immortal Hulk).
@@saddoro4138 Immortal Hulk is dope.
"Fascist superheroes are a result of fascist (or charitably, clueless liberal) writers".
The former is definitely Frank Miller, while the latter is everyone who uncritically absorbed his version of Batman and just regurgitated it without thought.
Superheroes contain arguably the most frequent overt critiques of fascism that I've seen in any genre. Let's not forget that comics writers were fighting Hitler way before America as a country was. It's mindbending to me that people ignore all the evidence to dismiss the entire genre.
When you say ‘’people, please do keep in mind you’re probably speaking about one type of people....The kind that have a penis. And, historically speaking, also white. Hardly a group representative of all people, though progress is limping along behind society in a begrudgingly work fashion.
I do kinda want to ruin superhero’s for everyone 😈
It’s only fair.
The only heroines I had to look forward to were mostly defined in terms of opposition to the male counterpart. Also, they wore leotards and wagged their asses a lot. I tried to emulate super-heroine behavior and was scolded.
So....Somehow I’m supposed to want to be like someone and hate her at the same time. And hate myself for wanting to be like her, but also realize I have to be like her to be appreciated or empowered in the way she is.
Waymanhood.
Batman’s a fascist.
"So you have a pitch for me?"
"Yes I do Sir!"
"OK tell me!"
"It's about improving the show's consistency and realism while staying true to its humanistic message!"
"Oh, realistic humanism is *tight!"*
"Yes it is. So, Sir, isn't it bad that the only Black character is a villain?"
"Yeah, yeah, yeah, but wouldn't it be hard to get more black characters in Vancouver though?"
"Oh that'd be super-easy, barely an inconvenience."
"Oh really?"
"Yeah. There's plenty of Black, Canadian a-"
"Okay well I'm gonna need you to get waaaaay off my back on this race representation thing."
"... Okay, boss, let me get off of that thing."
"In fact I'm gonna need you to get off off my office."
"Sir?"
"Was the Nazi Arsonist a reference to PhilosophyTube?"
"How do you know about that?"
"Unclear, so anyway why are you still here?"
"... Sir, Mr. Producer Guy, I've never seen you reject a pitch no matter how insane."
"First time for everything I guess!"
"Would it help if I said you'd make more money?"
"I do love money! But no. You're fired."
[She leaves]
"There' no way I'll get backlash for this decision-"
[Cut to this video's thumbnail]
Ha! The crossover and collab from two fellow Canucks we all knew we needed.
@Jacob Kissinger That's not at all how that works, but it's a fun thought anyway! They should make a movie about it!
@Jacob Kissinger I'm going to awkwardly pretend I understood that all along and was myself only 100% joking and mot even a little bit of a condescending jerk! Schrödinger's Retroactive Humour is *tight!"*
@Jacob Kissinger I believe the atom man was an original Comic book Superman Villain. They didn’t just make him up…
So here's how much of a hole I live in: I thought this was gonna be about Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman
Same!
Totally worth the watch, even if it wasn't about what I thought
same here lol
Was my expectation too.
One thing that doesn't get mentioned enough when talking about how indigenous people are treated around the world, is how they are still being repressed, killed, and driven off of lands so the resources there can be stolen.
This made me want a Superman alt-universe story where he’s raised by an indigenous family and grows up with their values, fighting against pipelines and land theft
I want this now, too.
this isn’t a direct one to one, but justice league gods and monsters has a superman who was raised by mexican migrant farmers instead of middle american ones and it definitely influences his worldview
Super cringe
@@JazukaiX Are you describing yourself?
I literally just rewatched the first part of the season and got caught up. This is the best of all the Berlanti shows. Best Lois Lane, best Superman, too.💖
Oh hey someone actually understands Superman for once
Because there's only one way to right and understand a character that has had many interpretations over the years !
@@snoopyfod1807 I suppose there is, highly defensive person on the internet. But traditionally in canon main universe stories Superman's power is just being a good person thanks to his humble upbringing, and while it can be fun to explore the darker side it tends to get boring if he can just punch his problems away.
@@octosalias5785 since when does bringing up a valid point against your pseudo objective argument classify as "highly defensive"
@@elijahlee3610 When it is highly sarcastic
@@octosalias5785 that's comedic charm
Wow, I timed looking to see if you had a new video up quite well. Never before did I think it possible for RUclips to say 'Uploaded 2 seconds ago'
Edit: Watched the vid and boy oh boy I have some Slime-y Thoughts. As someone in Kansas, quite literally everything is stolen from indigenous ppl. The state is named after the Kaw/Kansa ppl, and half the towns are named after different indigenous cultures. The football team KC Chiefs (though in Kansas City, MO it is incredibly relevant) not only has their name (Chiefs) but also has the'Tomahawk Chop' song, which didn't even come under mainstream fire until quite literally THIS YEAR. The fact is, Kansas has painted this perfect picture of quaint small town life, farms, and the Wizard of Oz, while ignoring the less palatable aspects of history (even though one of the most famous abolitionists, John Brown, was from Kansas). Ppl already don't want to discuss the reasons behind the native names with few to no natives around, and Kansas has covered the white colonialism in Red 'S's and Sparkly Shoes.
Can you _please_ tell me which browser you use? I know that RUclips presents differently in different browsers.
@@camelopardalis84 Chrome :). I had just checked Thought Slime's channel and there was nothing, then I went to my subscriptions and there the vid was
To be fair, it's not as though the modern day people of Kansas are responsible for what they're ancestors did. And I don't know a single person who looks upon what the colonists did to the natives fairly.
Hell yeah wholesome Superman. He’s a Moses stand-in, as detailed in Up, Up, and Oy Vey!
A lot of y'all need to read Grant Morrison Batman if you had Twitter convince you that Batman is a fascist. Not every Batman comic was written by Frank Miller.
I never thought he was a fascist, just a capitalist who is going about theoretically improving society in an incredibly ineffectual way. Is this still the case in Grant Morrison batman comics?
Hell, even a lot of mainstream takes on Batman don't really have the fascist take... Bruce Wayne in the Future State timeline is homeless, presumed dead, and still fighting to save Gotham from a police state.
@@namangoy it's hard to say that batman is ineffectual because he's saved the universe multiple times. Comic billionaires are the only billionaires who can justify their existence.
Yeah, although I see why people get confused. He has a massive savior complex. Batman isn't about authority, leadership, amassing power, or controlling people. There's literally only two situations where he is: in alternate universes where he's evil (like a large number of the Dark Knights, or when he's a vampire), or else during the lead-up to Infinite Crisis, where he had just discovered he had been mindraped by the Justice League and kinda became unhinged for a bit until Dick almost died. Jason Todd is more of a fascist than Batman.
A new thoughted Slime! May we be blessed before we have to go to work
Damn, Milly. You did a good video.
"It's eyeballs, isn't it?" (deep lean)
I would agree, yes.
Holy crap you actually helped me appreciate Superman as a character. I didn't think that was possible.
Watch this show
How many superman comics have you read? Because if this sounds compelling to you I highly recommend both superman smashes the klan and superman birthright.
Honestly you should watch My Adventures With Superman that came out recently.
Just finished watching superman and Louis - by far the best adaptation since the original movies. Not to mention by far the most believable superman since Christopher Reeves.
Brilliant!
I thought Canada was populated entirely by moose on unicycles.
That live in igloos, yes.
Cayden Mclean as a fellow Canadian, I’m really sorry, eh?
Common misunderstanding. No, you see, we're ruled by them.
See, this is the Slime 3.0 I was hoping for
never been so early on a slime sesh! gotta say im loving the new energy uve been bringing to the vids the last weeks/months :)) much love from a fellow enby
Anybody else felt like supergirl was a superhero show for people who watch ncis?
Supergirl is a nice show on the surface that ends up being the perfect example of (neo)liberal representation and girlboss characters, with their sympathetic billionaires and entrepreneurs
I mean it did start airing on CBS.
I’ve always said Smallville is a superhero show for people who liked Dawson’s Creek. I like both shows but for the love of god I wished they’d played their own genre straight for a change.
The first flight scene in Man of Steel made me tear up the first time I saw it. Everything about that scene just ripped my heart out Kano-style, and even to this day, still makes me take a deep breath of appreciation.
Also, I agree with Osiris: Disney fucked IP law up royal. If only we can legally make and distribute our own Superman stories.
Thank you so much for the opening disclaimer about fascist super heroes. We got The Boys… that’s enough.
A show that doesn't seem to realize it's about supervillains and not superheroes. Because that's what an "evil superhero" is. A supervillain.
I think, at this point, we have more "evil Superman" then actual just regular Superman
@@davidcolby167 Evil Superman is a fine trope, but evil Clark Kent is so boring. He's so much more interesting as this enigmatically boyscoutish alien with incredible power. Like, why is such a sweetie? What a nice young spaceman, what an inspiration.
@@tombrown407 I'm kinda curious what would happen if Clark Kent was written to keep that boyscoutish charm while also becoming an revolutionary extremist terrorist. Whether that counts as "evil" would depend on how you view violence as a solution to oppression, but I think that element would really make sense coming out of his general approach of trying to save the world, but as a dark mirror of it while not being as randomly destructive as it seems "Evil Superman" tends to be. However, it would also require the writers be able to actually tackle class issues. Think nice charming doofy sweetheart who doesn't hesitate for one second to massacre every CEO and billionaire once he realizes just how fucked up things are. I mean, knowing him, he'd probably let them plead their case first, but the moment they show themselves as unrepentant they just get laser-eyed, no questions asked.
Actually, thinking more about this, I'm getting ideas for how Clark Kent factors in. Namely that, as he is in a writer position (or possibly, through intimidation or murder, becomes editor of the Daily Planet), he can use that position to legitimize the violent acts he performs as Superman, becoming the social/political wing to Superman's military wing of this one-man terrorist outfit. No reason for him to stop being a doofy sweetheart there either, just that it might become ambiguous how much of that is him still being himself despite waging a bloody guerilla war, and how much of that is a mask designed to cover for that violence.
@@dominiccasts I mean, sure, but also, obviously not.
If Clark starts murdering bad people then he ceases to be that boyscout.
Anti-Capitalist Superman would be based as fuck, but I feel like the Clark Kent way would be to leverage his enormous power to force a non violent conclusion. And sure, Capital gonna capital, they'll probably try and kryptonite him and put him in situations where he has to get a bit scrappy.
But pure of heart boyscout style Anti-Capitalist Superman strikes me as more of a mutual aid, community allotment, feed the poor by appropriating Capitals ill gotten gains sort of guy. Basically a super powered Robin Hood.
10:55 More to the point, as someone living in Vancouver who has some connection to the screen acting world there (mostly through acting lessons and befriending some of the teachers) there absolutely are black actors in Vancouver they could have easily hired that would have knocked it out of the park.
It's lowkey a dealbreaker for me how Sam Lane isn't an asshole lol. Like, my favorite Superman and Lois era is in the late 90's-early 00s where he's basically explicitly evil. Also, its good to hear that "the stranger" ends up not being a total baddie, but a pilot is extremely important and the only 2 black characters we see are in antagonistic roles (the bf of the girl jordan kisses without asking first, who's arguably justified, but placed in an antagonistic role). So when I heard the news of the behind the scenes, it made sense to me.
Same Lane is absolutely an asshole, whose solution to pretty much every problem on the show is "I dunno, maybe kill my son in law?"
As the show goes on General Lane is consistently shown to be wrong, and each member of his family stands up to him and does the right thing anyway. I think he is a great character because he meant to represent the very common American notion of doing the wrong thing for the right reason.
@@Mallory-Malkovich Wait really? Geez, I watched the first half of the season and i felt no indication they were going in this much more interesting direction. Like, when they sent the one kid off to a school, it really bothered me both as a disabled person and as someone who's read last son of krypton lol. Might give it another shot with this knowledge, but they really should have made some of this clearer earlier on!
@@ThoughtSlime WHAT thats not the vibe i got from the first few episodes. Really really bothered me when Clark let him send that kid off to that school
@Gavin 01 its fine that you like it, but pilots (the first episodes of a show) are uhhh EXTREMELY important for viewers deciding whether or not to engage, and this show made a lot of mistakes there. And wow, I never knew that lots of shows had white male antagonists! It's not like I literally studied this in college!
I'll condemn whatever the hell I want to condemn, like that lazy intro where Clark calls his neurodivergent son more "difficult" than the neurotypical one and the fact that a Black writer's concerns about how race was presented in the pilot were treated with no regard (as shown in this video).
Gonna be honest, I think it's actually Quite likely that the people making the show didn't think about the colonization thing. It's just not the kind of thing most people think about, because the colonial nature of any given settlement in America is really really really deemphasized in our culture. (Which is a problem)
Also, unless the show made specific reference to the local indigenous people at any other point, it would feel a little thematically out there. Not saying there's no way it could be done well, just that, if that was the only time the show explicitly references real life colonization, it would probably ring a bit hollow.
Yeah, the writers not being aware is a whole other issue, assuming that is the case. Both scenarios (the execs saying no/discouraging it or the writers not even realizing it) are pretty bad. I think Mildred addressed that though, but yeah I totally agree, definitely a problem either way.
I can’t help but think of all the white leftists who are like “how dare you call me a coloniser, my ancestors were colonisers sure, but I just live here” reading your comment
I was watching a debate the other day and noticed something similar to what you pointed at in this video about the discourse around colonialism and the US.
It was argued that you can't really call the US rich because of the massive economical gaps as a counter argument to the amount of wealth and value that capitalism generated. The point that was ignored here is just that the amount of capital the US (and most other countries in the world) has was accumulated through aggressive and destructive imperialist practices which we are all familiar with. I think this is something that reflects US politicians in general and infects people's discourse, but there is a trend of ignoring how much of a massive dickhead the US is and how its imperialist practices shaped its economy amd affected the rest of the world, especially how it made everyone poorer and miserable in order to maintain its power and status.
0:47 i think this is my favorite Superman panel of all time
Vancouver is definitely known for being all white, it's really not one of the most multi-cultural cities in North America or anything.
There is no such thing as "all white." There are black actors in Vancouver.
Really, I just thought it was the place to go for drugs.
@@notsecure6855 I think the comment was sarcasm, pointing out that there are many actors availble to play diverse characters in Vancouver, because it is a multicultural city.
The "or anything" is the tip that it is sarcasm.
The story set on Smallville ,Kansas.
Where the majority people are white
Stop all of this diversity BS.
They already put Asian and Biracial characters on said city.
When will it be enough?
@@ridwana4037 Whoa, somebody's high horse is bucking, there, Trigger. WHEN WILL IT BE ENOUGH!!!! Lollolololololololololol
What... exactly could Superman do about a genocide in the 1800s/1900s? Stick his dick in the timeline like Barry? Overthrow America? I don't really think Superman can do anything about that unless he goes fascist. And it would be really... weird for a storyline. "Superman goes back in time and undoes atrocities" is an interesting Elseworlds, but I don't see how it would have been a good story for anything not exploring the ramifications of one guy controlling history. As for overthrowing governments to enforce his beliefs, well, we have a lot of those Superman stories. They're mostly terrible.
Was going to say this but you beat me to it. Well said.
@@vortexflash4944 Thanks. Like, could it have been mentioned? Yeah, sure, although if it wasn't done perfectly it would come across as highly anvilicious. But Superman can't really do much about these things without going full Justice Lord. And I use the Justice Lords as the example because that's still the best variant of that plot. Good enough that the writers admitted that they were trying to write Justice Lord Batman to lose his argument with main Batman, realized he literally could not lose that argument, and had to rewrite the plot somewhat so that main Batman has to guilt trip Justice Lord Batman with "our parents would be ashamed of you" to change his mind. Side note: Justice Lord Batman's winning line in the argument is one of my favorite moments in the DCAU.
@@PosthumanHeresy I agree. It’s been a while since I watched the justice lords storyline, hence why I’m on a DCAU rewatch now.
It’s annoying when people are actually trying to suggest Superman needs to be more active in government decisions. Injustice and the Justice Lords are a precautionary tale as to what that leads too. What makes Supes a good person, is that he practices good will and helps others, but also follows the book as much as possible. Unlike Batman, who often conducts his own private investigations through illegal means, any investigating Supes does is as Clark when reporting. And he refrains from being judge, jury, and executioner. He’s just a really powerful Good Samaritan.
@@vortexflash4944 Yeah, the concept really only could work out by the power of plot convenience. Firstly because at least half the planet would side with Lex Luthor immediately. Secondly because it's really hard to write a story where Superman fixes everything. Thirdly because, well, it's not a realistic example to set. It's an example nobody should aspire to, because you aren't Superman. I fully believe that if Superman actually stayed in character with his beliefs of right and wrong he could logically and easily run the world better than we do (assuming he got there by like... humanity asking him to rule the world to save us from ourselves). But there is no Superman here, and anyone trying to take over the world irl is not a hero.
But with that said, there's things about the Justice Lords that are appealing. There's a bleak sense of hope in the idea that maybe someone better could put our "leaders" under their bootheel, that maybe someone could make the exploiters feel how we feel, and would at least try making a world for us instead of bleeding us dry to make paradise for themselves. The problem is just the twofold "it's not a good story for the heroes to take over the world and fix things so everyone lives happily ever after" and "it's a terrible thing to aspire to irl". But the appeal is there, and I guess even ThoughtSlime falls into it at times. Can't judge, there were times during the Trump years I wouldn't have been able to confidently make this argument because... maybe it would be better.
Superman doesn't have to undo the genocides or anything, that's not the point. The point is that he needs to know about it and confront the fact that his hometown is a product of colonialism and all that the atrocities that came with. IMO it would make for an interesting moral conflict for this show's version of Superman, who's dedicated to get Smallville back on its legs and return it to the idyllic small town he remembered it as. You'd need to handle it with care but you have to do that with anything dealing with social issues or past atrocities
Man of steel finally figured out how to use all that metal and did the naughtys with Lois.
This is a really good summary.
Wake up babe new Thought Slime
I agree with every word of this - but also wanted to shout out how much I appreciate you directly linking to Dundurn Press for The Doomsday Book of Fairy Tales. The small press scene in Canada can always use the boost (also, it is a good book!!)
What? The executives completely misunderstand their own product?
Oh wow i didn't even know this was a thing. I look forward to your videos thank you for making them. Have a good day.
Hey, you've fucking convinced me to watch this show. This looks awesome. Thanks.
The lois from this show give me more emotion then the one from man of steel ever did.
People ordering the book, use the second link if you want it to ship to Canada.
I feel like the idea of Superman as the personification of the capacity of compassionate community to perform seemingly miraculous acts is a much more nuanced view of Superman, rather than "powerful people will save us".
I was like “wow, this is pretty progressive for a CW show” (speaking as a fan of Supernatural) and then I got to the part about Nadia Tucker, and I was like “oh, there it is.”
The initial portrayal of the stranger as seemingly be a bad guy but it only set up a great twist later.
Making it a racial issue is narrow minded.
I had assumed this show was a sort of spiritual successor to the old Superman soap opera "Lois and Clark"
really like how fair and balanced this video is, not a fan of people completely defending this show (or other mainstream media) against behind the scenes wrongdoing because they’re fans, or people blindly hating the show and calling the viewers and the end product itself racist or problematic because of the firing. i’m glad that there’s still room for nuance with stuff like this.
Just place my order for the book! So happy to support a friend of yours and local bookstores. Great video!
As a Black person that has been vastly disappointed in the direction of ALL the Arrowverse shows EXCEPT for Superman and Lois I like the direction of the show and that the show dismissed any pitch that was/is the same crap that has wrecked all the other shows on the CW ( admittedly I have not watched Stargirl so I don't know if that is a good or bad show) however, I have watched every other Superhero property on the Network and Superman and Lois is by far the best. It is telling to me that the Network keeps trying to sabotage the shows momentum by all these extended hiatuses were they replace this actually good show with the other crappy shows on their Network....I hope next season they keep up the good writing and compelling storytelling and they don't fall victim to the Arrowverse curse of one almost great season and the rest is crap because we care more about agendas than good storytelling that honors the characters they are trying to depict.
i didnt know this was a show that exists and i thought you were going to talk about Lois and Clark from '93
"Lois Lane ... In the future, we ask: "How. Dumb. Was she?" Hello! Clark Kent IS Superman!"
It’s a Great show.
The thing about Superman that I always found inspirational as a kid (and still do) is that he is a character with absolute power who is not absolutely corrupted. I've always found that line to be vapid and it plays a big part in why I hate Injustice.
I struggle to believe Captain America or Superman would ever be evil. Anytime they are written as evil I just think "Yeah, I've seen this character before. There are thousands of them already, but an eternally hopeful being? Be they nearly mortal or basically a god? That's fun."
Good take. Yeah, I too find injustice incredibly contrived in Superman’s downfall
I'm currently at exactly 9 minutes and I'm completely sold and ready to watch this show. I'll give an update if i still plan to at the end of the video
9:45 ummmm rethinking. that was fast
@@computer_trash You're free to watch or not watch whatever you want, but a word of warning before engaging in ideological boycotts. What message do you think WB would take away from this show not doing well? Would it be that they need to make their writing rooms more equitable because this bit of harassment which (to my knowledge at least) has received very little publicity occurred? Or would it be that this kind of nuanced, vaguely anti-capitalist Superman doesn't sell and they need to go back to the white bread all-American Superman that doesn't challenge anything?
final notes - very good video. I will probably give the show a watch due to valid points brought up in the video about how everything sucks, but i now know some things to be aware of
@@SirPhysics that's an entirely valid point. I mentioned in a different comment that I'll probably still give it a go, it seems up my alley. I probably wouldn't have watch it at all, had it not been brought up here. but yea, you're entirely right that WB would probably take a boycott on behalf of diversity and representation the wrong way
@@SirPhysics It doesn't need to be a boycott though; it could just be a person deciding their finite time on this Earth would be better spent elsewhere. Yes, it's better to support such nuance even if it isn't perfect, but if someone changes their mind because they don't think they'd enjoy the show, while it'd be great to watch the first episode or two before making that decision, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. And let's be honest... the WB is going to cancel this show before long anyway because everything good but atypical isn't usually a smash-hit or because the budget for fantasy/sci-fi/superhero shows is a lot higher than the average sitcom or reality TV show and eventually some exec will get antsy and pull the plug to pave the way for one of those. It's nice to give them feedback but ultimately you can't be certain that watching something will send the correct message to the studio about why it succeeded or failed and you can't guarantee that even if it becomes popular it won't get cancelled.
the eyeballs are forever merciful
Tbf Clark is just absolutely shredded like come on
The old show "Lois and Clark" had a joke where Clark has an awesome body, but his kitchen is filled with nothing but Kiddies' cereal.
"You eat like this... and look like that?"
@@auldthymer LMAO that's actually great
Teri Hatcher killed it in that show to me embodies Lanes personality perfectly and has the best Clark and Lois chemistry of any adaptation
its a bad and pervasive myth (that i have definitely been guilty of) that vancouver "doesnt have black people" here and its like yes we do we just ignore and marginalize them !! high cost of living socioeconomic relationship to neighbourhoods etc
Yeah, I lived a few blocks away from what my mom called “small Ethiopia” when I was a kid.
So when's the Justice League Unlimited video coming out?
Didn’t expect to hear my name so many times today
For those who don't read comics, superman has had a son for the past 5-7 years or so in comics. He's about ten in comics and just kinda great. Idk, I just really like that superman is now a positive role model for fatherhood as well and that DC seems to be sticking with Jonathan and not panicking at the idea of any change to the status quo.
Look, I was a simple bisexual child and the main character are pretty
Edit: uh, wrong Lois & Clark
tbf, I find these actors very pretty too!
This show is filmed right beside my work !! Lmao I swear I see the actors on my lunch break sometimes
Yeah but...all of Tucker's accusations were flat out false. Everything she said about the show just...wasn't true.
Maybe, just maybe, she was actually a detriment to the production and was justifiably let go? No? Maybe?
Link for your assertions?
@@joelhenry5489 None of the black "villains" are villains, and no one gives a shit that there aren't more black characters--the show has a wide cast of every ethnicity. The funny thing about this entire video is that alt-righters criticize the show for being too 'woke' for a number of reasons like "race-mixing/the first time Superman saved Lois/the main villain-villain is a white man". Maybe it's just a show and people should try not to view it though the lens of 100% politics? It's tiresome.
I love your argument about indigenous people. However, the thing about tucker is all we have is her word, she says there was no indication before the contract's no renewal there could've been. I love the fact that JHI is black but it is never pointed out as something odd or unique, he's a guy his story is what matters not his race.
I completely agree and just wanted to add another minor critique of this video (I know it's 4 months late lol).
He points out the parallels between the Kryptonian take-over of Smallville and the colonial take-over of America, and while there are valid parallels, it doesn't invalidate Superman's argument that "the people of Smallville don't deserve this."
The modern day people of Kansas do not somehow have to be punished for the actions of ancestors generations ago. Not to mention much of Smallville isn't even white, so they very possibly didn't have ancestors relating to this subject.
*Big Spoilers*
I feel like mishandling Steel, yannow “John Henry” Irons and all his heavy symbolism, in a story all about small town workers being destroyed by The capitalist Machine really betrays a lack of understanding of the ideas at play. All of the concepts inherent to the character could’ve been used to humanize him in the early stages of the story and tie him back into the main Narrative, but that advice wasn’t taken because I imagine most of those writers didn’t view the character as a whole being in himself, (for /some/ reason) but a part of Superman’s narrative and nothing more.
I've never stopped thinking about that Facebook post that said something to the effect of, "People who complain about comic books becoming too 'political' are just mad that they've grown up to be the kind of person that their favorite heroes punch in the face."
We truly have become, Doctor Octopus.
I haven't seen this show yet, but it's pretty surprising to me to hear that there aren't many POC characters, considering how diverse the casts of Arrow, The Flash, and other related shows have been.
There are Asian and Biracial characters on it. And not a villain.
Also, the story takes place on Smallville, Kansas. A place where most people there are white.
Stop spewing BS before You watch it.
@@ridwana4037 Brush up on your reading skills, dude. I'm not 'spewing BS', I'm expressing sadness at the claim made IN THE VIDEO that Superman and Lois has few Black characters, seeing how all the other Arrowverse shows have prominent characters with melanin. Sure, it takes place in Kansas. I get it. I'm from rural Illinois. Anyway, thanks for the info that there are other POC on the show.
Dw, half of the main cast is heavily Hispanic iirc 🤔. It’s a pretty good show, bad development aside.
When Supergirl tackles racism, transphobia, it is mocked and there is negative backlash so they are avoiding such storylines in Superman & Lois. People do not support shows that does good representation. They only create RUclips videos or tweet in social media. That's why these shows are moving away from social issues and focusing on centrist contents (or a tad center-right)
They still love to insert little nuggets of propaganda into Superman and Lois here and there.
“The men never thought a woman like me, much less a _black woman,_ could be a firefighter...”
Stop. Just...stop
Stop the cap when supergirl does it they shove their views down your throat.
Smallville also started out being all about how the difference between Clark and Lex was in how they were raised. But then as it went a weird sense Fatalism kind of took over, but I still highly praise the entire first 4 seasons.
Your comparison of the villain's plan to kill humans and replace them to native American genocide isn't wrong, but I think it would've been a pretty big stretch to insert that into the show. It's not like Superman would support native American genocide. I'm 100% sure he'd be staunchly opposed to it, and would've fought to prevent it if he had been alive at the time, but since he wasn't, it's not something he had any power to stop and he shouldn't feel guilty about it. Also, the people of Smallville are innocent of that event for the same reason. You could argue that Superman has the power to materially improve conditions for native Americans now, and it's be great if he did that, but that's a different conversation and gets into what the optimal way for Superman to use his powers really would be
Thank you for sparking some thoughts that led me to what I hope is a good Insight on the character of Superman. Without Clark, the decent person who was taught to live virtuously by his parents, there _is_ no Superman, there's just some overpowered asshole in a cape. It is kind of like One Punch Man, which makes the protagonist so overpowered that the physical fight is moot, and forces you to think about all the things around it that shaped the conflict in the first place.
I liked that The Stranger was presented as a villain in the beginning and the secret that he isn't even who they portray him (a different character completely) to be a nice surprise.
I just find his sons to be a disappointment. Your parents are Lois Lane and Superman! They might know what they're talking about! Listen to them!
Because you always listened to your parents right? To their kids Clark is just another dad. It doesn't matter if he's also superman. Because you are the viewer but for the people in the show he's just another guy.
Oh the WB has a HUGE STAKE IN ANY SHOW'S IDEALOGICAL STANCE. There is a reason why shows like S&L and Stargirl are well received compared to the rest of the remaining arrowverse shows that are very gradually declining in quality. The reason show's like Batwoman fail is probably because they have to many Nadria Tuckers' on their writing staff too focused on pushing political and racial ideologies instead of telling a compelling story with compelling characters. Gay people are portrayed as obnoxious and insufferable Jerks and men are emasculated. Black people are told that they are victims of an evil racist society. Superman and Lois spits in the face of what people like Nadria Tucker want to promote, because it shows a connected family unit, a strong male and strong female character working side by side with each other, with neither attempting to do the other's job, neither being portrayed as better than the other, no race or gender or identify politics whatsoever. I'm not one to wish unemployment on ANYBODY, but people with agendas like Nadria Tucker shouldn't have a job that will involve them twisting and using a property to spread their ideologies rather than telling great stories.
This video: analysis, taking a critical eye to the text, very good
Me: Tyler Hoechlin :)
also: tyler hoechlin 👀
Tyler Hoechlin in glasses watered crops and cleared my acne.
I take issue with your notion that all big newspapers are owned by billionaires IRL therefore firing critical reporters would be unnecessary.
I work at a newspaper in a town of about 130,000. It’s owned by Gannett, a major media conglomerate. But we are the only shop in town doing critical, investigative reporting involving local government, local police, local companies, etc. The corporation that owns us, located 1,000 miles away, has no bearing on our reporting.
If one of the major corporations based in our city that we report on bought our newspaper, I guarantee you they would have a reason to fire us, fire us for doing actual reporting on regulatory violations, workplace safety, etc.
In fact, if more people were willing to chip in $5-$10 a month (a few bottles of soda in terms of cost) for newspapers, they wouldn’t be owned by major media companies and billionaires. Almost all newspapers were owned by single families or co-ops, especially local papers historically. And there are serious issues with journalism etc., trust me, but I’d argue hat financially supporting newspapers has huge benefits for everyone. Without them, there’s only the government to hold the government accountable, especially with regard to city and state governments. Just my 2 cents as someone in the business.
I used to not like Supes, but this video really helps me think twice about it
See, I was confused about the twist in Morgan Edge's storyline because the initial episodes seemed like it was setting a large commentary on how big corporations are corrupt. He felt more like Lois' villain but I didn't like how he became Clark's because I felt like it took away from the real life issue Smallville was going through.
Oh hello, I'm fast! Mildred- you look tan 😊 enjoying the summer?
That color looks great on them!
I think we broke Dundurn's Website lol
First off, great video. Secondly, you made me do a spit take with that head turn at the end. So thanks for the good hearty laugh to start my day
If she wasn’t fired from the show, it would’ve turned out to be just another CW superhero show bogged down by stupid and unnecessary politics. I am so glad that she was fired because I have no doubt she would’ve ruined the show. John Henry Irons isn’t a villain, he’s originally portrayed as such to show him to be a 3 dimensional character, and actually having a well constructed character arc. The woman who was fired would’ve made him just a be great person straight away, and be absolutely only 2 dimensional and remove all conflicts which that character would’ve had with Superman. That is not doing justice for the shows black characters. And 3.5% of the Canadian population isn’t a large amount of black people, that’s roughly only 3 in a 100 actors which could be casted for a specific role, what’s the likelihood that 100 actors are even going to audition for a role, let alone the 3 black actors being the best choice for the role. Not to mention none of the characters in the show are originally black besides John Henry Irons and his daughter and to raceswap other characters would be pathetic and stupid. Also if the show had a bunch of black people in it, well, it wouldn’t just make no sense seeing the fact that it’s based in Kansas (a largely white populated place), but it would be completely inaccurate from the comics, which btw were written by 2 Jewish men during the period of WW2. Your criticisms are completely unfounded and only found through your skewed view of reality through the lens of being a leftist. This show is literally praised by all walks of life, it’s not just a show right-wing people like, I’ve seen radical left-wing people that love it with a passion. This show isn’t in anyway unethical, if you’ve come to that conclusion your just plain stupid.
You're doing God's work, Thought Slime.
the writer being fired reminded me of my last job, I was writing for a phone game and the two head guys kept 'suggesting' I write the story in a ways that were clearly based on 'top ten ways to keep the reader engaged' clickbait sites. I kept trying to tell them you can't write a damn story like that. Considering I was the one with the Creative writing and English degree and they weren't you'd expect them to take my advice. Nope. I got fired because I was being 'difficult'. And lets not get into the job I had before that where I wasn't allowed to make any of the characters gay. For all aspiring writers out there, the industry WILL demand you kill most of your creativity in order to not scare their target demographic or, just because the guy in charge thinks he can write and tell you how to write better.
Or... maybe... her writing was not up to par and she's retroactively espousing negative intentions to her bosses.
Yeah, I don't think we should be taking her at her word.
Is there a way to get the eyeball zone book in Australia?
i have never heard of this show and i thought it was going to be. lois from family guy i think i might be going insane
I would watch that
Dear Thumb Skunk. I love you. Can you in the future maybe make a full video to elaborate your point on the "what's the difference between a food and a drug" trend you were getting into in the chat the other night?