It's so weird how a 6 year old game made by a single guy, in a forgotten engine, can give SO MUCH content to be digested by the fans. This is the reason for loving gaming as a medium.
@@donelkingii3738odd, i'd say a game where one of the biggest factions is some religious nutjobs who opress strqngers and women in the name of their false god and the other being a corrupt capitalistic nightmare so far away from morality that they enslave people for being poor is a pretty nice criticism of modern politics
Skin Bandits: Economy (X) We humans have a thriving economy, particularly noteworthy for our distance from other commercial hubs. Political Stability (X) Savant has ruled our people with grace and wisdom for many years! National Security (X) Roving bands of helpful humans patrol all across the sonorous dark to prevent our fellows from having their soft, succulent flesh pierced by predators or assailants Personal Movement (X) Of course, friend! Go wherever you wish. Leave your fresh human skin here and we will take good care of it. Infrastructure (X) Not only have we repurposed old empire infrastructure, but we have added to it with amazing new technologies that elevate the lowly skeleton into a true union with glorious skin! Happiness (X) Who wouldn't be happy to be a soft, sticky human!
There is that UC news pamphlet that talks about Sheks "flooding into the cities", I like to think those are all the Sheks that aren't able to keep up with the extreme warrior culture and want to live a normal life. A lot of Sheks probably emigrate because the kingdom is oppressive like the HN but in a different way. This might be the largest factor of their population crisis that gets talked about. I like to think Esata is like Moll and it was a lot more oppressive and xenophobic before she took over. She has to play a balancing act between the practical necessities of making a stable nation with the suicidal warrior culture. That's probably why she wants her daughter to learn from the foreign perspective of the player. For all of its problems it's kind of cool that the Holy Nation shows that a nation in Kenshi can provide a stable food supply with only free citizens farming. It's an example that proves the UC doesn't actually need slavery to keep everyone fed. It also shows that an entire economy can function without slavery since their numerous slaves only mine stones for holy statues. HN is evidence that defenders of UC slavery who say it's a practical necessity are wrong. I'm not an HN fan by any means but if you took only the good from HN and UC you could have a great civilization. I also understand that a few people like to troll or hint at extreme real life politics behind supporting HN on the forums, so I don't blame people for being suspicious or defensive or this topic being so heated sometimes. But obviously this video was made in good faith and I enjoyed it!
@@renadex4905why don’t they just farm cactus? Are they stupid? Jokes aside it’s true but I’d argue that the HN has a similar population due to the sheer number of patrols even though they don’t have as much land, and only okrans pride is fertile while every other place is also desert, the UC has fertile land like storms gap so they get less slack from me because they have way more land. This and the fact that the shek also live in a desert and actively look down on farming also don’t have mass starvation the UC get no slack from me.
What about the Crab Riders? best armor in the whole game, hardest patroll squads in the whole game, massive amphbious armored crab armies,, their raids put the shek to shame, they hold the blood reavers, grass pirates, gurglers, skeleton bandits and skin bandits back and the first to settle in conquered territory with several prosperous bases across hazardous terrain
and while there production is reliant on others they make there own food have good stockpiles are nigh unassailable thanks to worlds end and since there a information based organazation if any one faction went hard on them they could just go around
Regarding tech hunter infrastructure I believe they have some hydroponic farms in worlds end. Other than that they would be entirely reliant on trade caravans.
Most of them are adventurer, not elite but decent enough. Their base are also scattered throughout the Kenshi Moon so i think they indeed relies on Trade Caravans for other supplies like medical supplies, equipments,… One thing I’m quite sure is they have very good logistic system, either by themselves or coming from Shinobi, Trade Ninja, Free Trader, Nomad, or even outsourcing it to Skeleton. Tech Hunter and Mongrel are my favorites.
I think the Hivers are content. Happy is perhaps an alien concept for them. That said, I often find Beep to be naturally happy but then again, we could say that is just content.
I don't think Bast was the breadbasket of the UC. In game dialogue talks about it being destroyed just as it started getting going. I think the colonisation of Bast by the UC was a desperate attempt to get the crops they need but in doing so started massive border friction with the HN and in addition I am pretty sure that the HN is trading food under the table to the UC for slaves through the Traders Guild because the Phoenix is not happy if you kidnap the Traders Guild leader. Also in addition The HN has a destroyed village where Okrans Arms open up into the Bast cauldron implying their own colonisation efforts thwarted by what was probably cannibal raids. TLDR Bast was new & UC are messing with economies and borders in the process stepping on alot of toes
The UC breadbasket was the Hook. The southern uc is where the food comes from The reason there is starvation is due to the anti-slavers raiding caravans. Tinfist states that "the world gets darker before it gets lighter" Hes purposefully doing this.
I'm not generally a political guy, but I hope Kenshi 2 starts before the United Cities are united and we have more factions with intrigue and loyalties and whatnot.
I think one of the best possible alliances is between the Shek and the Tech Hunters. And they would be a practically unstoppable force. They have a common enemy, they can trade with each other and they are very strong beings. Tech Hunters can provide better weapons and armor and Sheks can provide brute strength. It is a union between scientists and soldiers.
Bearing in mind that the ultimate goal of a lot of the shek people is to fight everyone, I do think that arming them would be some kind of suicide in the long run
a society that separates its scholars and soldiers will have its thinking done by cowards and fighting by fools, the shek kingdoms fighting is already done by fools without the thinking part
The shek would never, they HATE anyone that doesn’t fight, making their own people second class citizens just for not dying in battle, and that’s under the “progressive” stone golem, the shek actively fought and murder everyone through out their history for no other reason than dying in battle, I really like the shek but they are terrible in most things. Honestly if the HN got their sh** together they would be a power house
Such a good video! In fact, the answer was more than obvious, even despite the negative attitude towards the Holy Nation by many players. My preference for the Shek Kingdom is purely from a roleplaying perspective. The player himself finds the faction almost in a state of decline and through his actions can lead it to some kind of “prosperity”. Although it is due to the seizure of fertile territories, the expansion of the very borders of the kingdom and the destruction of enemies))
Morality aside, I think if most people were somehow magically transported to the Kenshi world - they would likely be happy to fall in line under the Holy Nation. Especially if they spent any time outside of it, and lived with those experiences.
I’m pretty sure the HN only really got as repressive as it is recently due to the current phenox, the only parts of bad stuff baked in to the HN is hatred of skeletons and technology, but due to what skeletons did I’m iffy on them since every skeleton alive was apart of the atrocities they did unlike everyone else
The Holy Nation is one of the most stable civilizations in Kenshi but they’re running up against a wall. Rebirth is a recent project and the Flotsam Ninjas still have some ingrained religious intolerances. Meaning women becoming second class citizens, and the use of religious slaves happened under the current Phoenix. If religious doctrine continues to radicalize and divide their own citizens they won’t be able to keep up their war fronts. It’s why if the player helps the Flotsam Ninjas overthrow the Holy Nation they immediately lose territory to all of their neighbors.
Minor point: World's End does have a hydroponics operation, two storehouses equipped for the purpose. Not exactly going to do more than subsistence with that, but given the higher than normal skeleton population there, it helps!
Hey man just wanted to say I have been listening to your stuff for a while and I really apperciate how detailed and interesting your videos are. I love playing kenshi while listening to these lore videos
The irony of most of us destroying the Holy Nation, is we doom the moon of Kenshi to oblivion, death from cannibals, fogmen, they also seem to REALLY hate skimmers and raptors. There demise also brings the entire moon to the brink of starvation, once the current Phoenix dies of old age, someone less ... him... will take over and things will improve. I really like the Tech Hunters, yet they are heeled by their Machinist leader Iyo who has anyone that discovers too much bumped off (something that all skeletons pretend not to know) Tech Hunters are always the best thing you can run into in the wastes, which makes them more tragic. Great series btw.
If you think the next Phoenix won't be as much of a zealot as his predecessor after being raised in the same nightmarescape created by said predecessor, you're simply wrong. Especially if he's raised by the same inquisitors and lunatics who have thoroughly infested the Holy Nation's entire structure.
@@Boglorio The current Phoenix is the worst one they have ever had. People like to think the Holy Nation is THE bad guy. There are no real bad guy factions, no good guy factions. Destroying the Holy Nation, may feel good, yet it condemns most of humanity to starvation, the United Cities already lost their bread basket, the Holy Nation is more wealthy then it was, land and food wise, even the Paladins admit the current Phoenix is basically a monster. No easy solutions, no easy answers, also they are the only faction capable of stopping Cat-Lon if he decides to return, since their weapons are anti Skeleton, also remember there are those like Griffon looking for answers, on good standing with the Holy Nation, and nop Iyo to kill them if they learn the truth. Have faith brother, lest humanity's light be extinguished.
@@UnCLePSYchO The current paladins admitting he's a monster and then enforcing his orders is why the Holy Nation is doomed to further corruption. If you think the society that runs Rebirth, a concentration camp where you build a pointless statue forever until you die isn't evil, you need to re-evaluate your morals.
is it though? the shek can take over and it's fine hell there army seems to expand the rebel farmers are fully capable of making the united cities there's if they ally with the antislavers honestly these things are only a problem if the nations in question implode and subject the world the a grisly power vacum so not really a problem
Love this analysis, very well done and visually marvelous! I think the Traders Guild is the most powerful non-faction faction in Kenshi via controlling the currency. The grid shutdown and famine events would favor a group of people who make money based on reliance of the flow of goods/services via cats. Constant wars and conflicts ensure maximum opportunity to profit from price variances and keep people from destroying the major factions that the TG uses to their advantage - and factions are kept in check from their internal conflicts as well. I'm extrapolating this from my experiences in Kenshi and don't have references to back it up - but the logic is there based on what they're about. Prosperous economy - They own the economy, not for the average citizen but for people like Longen, et. al. Bartering does exist, but the majority of trade happens in cats (second to that would be specific trade goods). It would be interesting if there are multiple currency types in Kenshi 2 that end up being replaced/overtaken by cats, and debt could be interesting if integrated into the rest of the lore. Political stability - They foster political instability to consolidate their control over cats, thus it's a weapon for them. Longen put Tengu in power to maintain control over the UC and its economy. Sense of National Security - They have no sense of nationalism (or if they do, it's secretive/informal) other than getting more control over cats. Freedom of personal movement - Their lord is currency and thus they don't care about that. Infrastructure - They use faction infrastructure, therefore needing none of their own. Happiness of its people - They don't care, as any blame for misery goes to whichever faction is allegedly in control in that area.
I figured the HN would do amazing with a question like this. The HN is by far my favorite faction, outside of the women oppression stuff they are the type of faction I love in video games with an organized humanity fighting off powerful outside threats. The slavery stuff of UC is also fun to play around. I like the friction their cultures give with the HN religion and slavery in the UC, it's fun gameplay navigating these issues rather than the generic stuff most games give you like with the Shek kingdom. Having your characters enslaved after a failed battle and needing to rescue them or escape is just fun to play around. With the HN stuff I like the friction that can happen with the religion stuff and racism (when it's not based on skin color, humans hating on bug men and skeletons is perfectly fine and logical!), the only thing I really hate is how buggy it can be with paladins running up asking me to hand over non humans when I only have humans in my party. The Shek are a boring faction imo, they just have some people that yap with nothing interesting going on. I feel like they needed to add something special to the Shek Kingdom that would give the player a little friction in an interesting way. Even Hivers ignore hiveless to give you a little friction, I find too few games are willing to give fun friction in games and tend to just have everything go the players way.
I would argue that the tech hunters have good infrastructure in the same way that the western hive does. Its very obvious that the tech hunters are able to use the tech they scavenge, which is why most of there cities are very well structured and built, and although they don't have much in the sense of roads, its arguable that roads are sorta unnecessary to a faction that is often off the beaten path anyway. Many of the other points against there infrastructure come from them simply being more of a giant guild rather than a roaring faction which I feel like makes a difference as they will always be connected to other factions to a degree making self sustainability (albeit they could use hydroponics as seen in worlds end) to not be as necessary.
My guess? Probably none, or a Skeleton faction, since it seems highly unlikely to me that the moon in such a state can remain hospitable to human life for very long (well, relatively speaking, but you did specify "long-term" :D). When it has lost that much surface water but *not* through cooling leading to expansion of the ice caps, seemingly rather the opposite of cooling has been happening, that bodes... super ill. Global warming death-spiral ill, water evaporation causing increase in greenhouse effect causing increased evaporation... Only question is which happens first; too warm to live there, or not enough water left to live there? Though, even if we discard the climate angle, my answer would still be none of them... I think without player interference the Holy Nation would probably "win" the current wars, likely destroying any peer it has... but that still doesn't mean it's going to last, and I don't think it could. Maybe even *especially* without a great war to fight.
What about the southern hive? They're have the unity of the western hive but are warriors like the shek, they also have King, I feel they have a good chance of taking over the world. Great video as always, keep up the good stuff! 👍
When you really think about it, the player faction is the best faction in the entire game. The only thing theoretically holding it back is that it's limited to 30 members (even though that's probably just a gameplay limitation) But imagine; Your faction can posess some of the most powerful technology still avalibe in the world, automated mines and refineries that only require 1 person to operate, hydrophonic plants that can grow in any enviroment as long as there is water, advanced copper alloy metal buildings to protect you from natural disasters, blacksmiths who can mass produce weapons and armor the likes of which are barely rivaled by any other smith in the modern day, medical tech that lets you heal any wound, repair any damage and make prosthetic limbs that make your people far stronger than they used to be. If you commit to doing research and toning your character's skills, your faction will live like kings compared to the average Kenshi citizen. The UC and the shek kingdom wishes it had anything remotely close to that, and the HN is probably too afraid of it or would consider it heretical
No, they are all bad. Every last group slaughter without mercy. Shek live to fight killing any who are not strong enough to fight them off. HN are Zenophobic and sexist. And my favorite and last major factions economy is based off slave labor Nobody is good in Kenshi, some just aren't as evil as others. I hate the HN because its difficult to be anything but a male human. I hate the Empire because if your poor they'll snag you up and enslave you. I hate the Shek the least, since you have to build on their land before they kill you, and they don't care about anything else.
No, they are all bad. Every last group slaughter without mercy. Shek live to fight killing any who are not strong enough to fight them off. HN are Zenophobic and sexist. And my favorite and last major factions economy is based off slave labor Nobody is good in Kenshi, some just aren't as evil as others. I hate the HN because its difficult to be anything but a male human. I hate the Empire because if your poor they'll snag you up and enslave you. I hate the Shek the least, since you have to build on their land before they kill you, and they don't care about anything else.
Slave camps for women where they are sentenced to hard labor in mines did not exist, bro. Also, we had some pretty good civilizations even in ancient times.
your perfectionism is appreciated, don't give up on those "Y-Building's" just yet sooner or later their piece of the perfect settlement puzzle will be revealed!!! lol much love from California
What's odd here is when I play I usually chose to join the Holy Nation, the one most apt to succeed. My second most go to is the Shek, which seems the least likely to succeed. I did once make a free hive faction where I pretty much rounded up ever hiver I found, it was a fun unique game. I set up in the Howler Maze in the creator in the south, it took a bit to manage the crabs, and I got raded by random factions in the south, but the crabs and acid rain thinned out their numbers usually before they got to me, it was a very self efficient and rather isolationist style of play. I never really sided with the UC though, there does not seem like a lot of redeeming qualities to it. They do have some good shops, but you don't have to join them to visit.
I think the United Cities have more chances of succeeding than the Holy Nation. Two reasons: 1. The UC are an economical powerhouse. We are not looking at whether their economy is ethical or fair; it works very well for an elite - just like in the real world, and such societies tend to thrive the most, even if all society/system eventually collapse. To a certain degree the Holy Nation is trying to do the good thing, and be there for all its citizens - who abide to its rules, but that's precisely why the HN can't spread wide; they can't sustain that approach on a very large scale; remember there is only one true leader, which is fine with a relatively small or average empire, but not fine with a bigger one, not long term. Which leads to my second point. 2. The UC is more flexible than the HN. The nobles may seem to do whathever they want, or Tengu doesn't seem to have real control over all of the UC, but it's just like any decentralised systems. It's not a dictature, and that's why they have more chance of survival. The UC can adapt, survive and eventually thrive despite the paysan revolt. How? The UC and especially Trader leaders just have to share some of the wealth with the heads of the revolt, or just get rid of them (asssassins). They are a pragmatist bunch whose only interest is profit - not slavery or unfairness: PROFIT. Even if the nobles are overthrown, the people who will replace them will do just that: replace them at the head of the UC. The United Cities will remain. Remember it's Kenshi, it's all about doing whatever is necessary to survive. The HN on the other hands, as it's shown on the video check all the boxes on paper; it almost like a perfect political system experiment. But if you cut their head it all crumble. No one can replace the Holy Pheonix. No one that has not been carefully selected and prepared for that role. Same, if the HN tries to expand behond its current borders, the backclash will be fatal. Remember again, it's Kenshi, and most of the population of that island is fiercely independant. Yeah there are a lot of slavery going on, but it's mostly for profit - that's unfortunate I know - it's not because those enslaved people were born with certain traits. Also maybe half of the population of Kenshi doesn't fit the HN standard, there are a lot of people with horns, robotics, etc. and just as much people who don't believe and don't care to believe in the Phoenix, or go to church every week. They will fight for their freedom, the HN will drain its energy to keep them in check - remember it's their way or nothing, they don't adapt, and their system which is "nice" on paper won't be able to sustain itself with wars on all sides. Just look at our current world or our history. Religious empire can shine for a short while but either they get corrupted or they crumble. The safer way for religious powers to survive is usually behind the scene. It does better a backing the power in place rather than being that power. In a world such as Kenshi the most ruthless and the ones who a ready to bend the rules, and who are seeking profit - often at the detriment of others - will succeed.
Societies where the elites thrive at the expense of the populace do not succeed in the real world though. You're actively living in the collapse of the Western World because of it.
I disagree, this was not a question who would be the best for Kenshi (as in controlling all of it.) but rather what faction could succeed and that's what the HN has done for a fairly long time. The HN has done well for themselves these last 1000 years, they do need a new Phoenix as this one is too harsh on women and that's caused issues but overall they are fine, stable and a strong nation. They don't need to continuously expand to be a successful nation, the land of Kenshi simply does not support it for any faction. Their society is not as advanced as others so all they really need is food and steel, and they have great excess of both, their economy does not work the same as the other factions. The HN also has leaders other than the Pheonix otherwise they would not have lasted 1000 years. The new Pheonix is simply groomed into the role while the churches leadership continues to run things as always. So yes someone can replace the Pheonix, himself as once he dies a new child replaces him. Rather than nobles like the UC the HN has members in their church run the cities. Lastly it does not matter if 1/2 the moons population does not fit with them as they are not a part of the HN or in the HN lands. Those that disagree with the HN leave their lands one way or another.
Thanks for being as objective as you could. I really do appreciate it, it makes the conversation far more engaging. Believe it or not, I don't actually require a 30 minute video about a video game to understand that slavery and oppression are terrible things.
4:36 I mean, there are the Holy Nation Outlaws who believe that the Phoenix has been corrupted or something of the sorts, but I guess they aren't that major either.
Something that has always been on my mind about Kenshi is that if Fogmen are just hivers that have went insane cause they lost their queen and her pheramones kept them normal and part of the hive then wouldn't hiveless like Beep eventually turn fogmen and since allot of players would see killing all the hive queens as a goal in their playthrough wouldn't all the hives end up also turning which would be horrible for every other faction since allot more parts of the map would end up being like the foglands and some cities would fall and well in the holy nation it probably wouldn't take long for the people to turn on each other and the same would go for the free cities meanwhile the shek might be the best prepared for it since they are probably the only faction with their people united
The problem with the holy nation is that same as the legion from fallout new vegas. They are incredibly reliant on their leader, the holy nation is the only major faction that crumbles immediately upon taking their leaders out, compared to the shek for example where you have to take multiple leaders out before the cities fall, since once one falls another shek takes its place and even before the events of the game take place a change of leadership has happened, same for the united cities, the death of tengu doesn't immediately crumble the entire cookie, not too sure about the tech hunters tho
That's actually a very good point against The Holy Nation's political stability. If you take out 3 individuals the entire nation collapses due to, what seems to be, their multiple enemies overwhelming them, with the Flotsam taking over the capital, the Shek taking over the rest of their cities, the Fogmen and United Cities destroying/taking over their military bases in the west and east respectively. With United Cities you need to kill a lot of nobles to put a dent on the faction, and the end result is that the peasants take over (though some cities fall to bandits iirc) and even the already politically unstable Shek Kingdom requires you to kill two (or even three) faction leaders before it collapses. The Holy Nation's stability might be an illusion after all, if the elimination of a couple of key individuals causes them to lose their lands that quickly.
@@Giorgal Not only that but they are as suicidal and as kill thirsty as the shek they hate, if we assume gameplay is cannon, taking down the phoenix will trigger 2 wraths of god, each being lead by the other 2 inquisitors... so they actually hand themselves to you, if you already won in their home territory, what chance do they think they have ON YOUR territory?
UC is huge but we have much more shows of how powerfull HN is, the territory north is full of destroyed cities by the paladins and is said to happened in a single day, just to show how capable they are in every area , their only flaw is the slavery, being so agresive with other species is even needed in a world like kenshi when you dont know when something will go crazy
0:39 well 3 of them might succeed, 1 maybe, the last 2...well they're creating their own graves. FN, Skelis and hovers have a larger chance of success. SK is kinda iffy, they tend to be chaotic good, HN and those other guys......nah, they're playing with huge pits of fire
I think the Shek are heading in the right direction under new leadership. Considering they were almost wiped out not long ago and are at the time of the game a major faction suggests this.
It's possible but it's certainly equally as likely that their change of direction won't last. When you tour their lands and cities you don't exactly get the sense that Esata has her people squarely behind her. Player intervention taking out Kral's Chosen and the Berserkers would probably help though. Fewer (loudly and violently) dissenting voices that way.
Suggestion; instead of an asterix you could put the uncertain traits into brackets for future videos X / (X) just seems more selfdescriptive than X/X* if there is no textmark on what the asterix means
I want to build a nation in shem that coexists with other nations (as far as possible in kenshi). Is there a way to bring people in other than recruiting them? (Vanilla or via Mods) I'd like my recruits to provide security an a basic amount of infrastructure. Apart of that it would be cool if the npcs would farm/trade by themselves
I'd argue a few points about the holy nation: "Growing and prospering economy": prospering? - sure, by kenshi's standards. Though on your point that there's hardly any poverty there - they do have A LOT of starving bandits roaming around. Growing? They don't seem to have grown much in the last one thousand years. They're the same feudal society they've always been. And with their hatred of technology, I don't think that's going to change. Ever. They're the type of civilization that can spend an eternity not changing at all, unless outside forces force them to. Happiness? - I don't think their women are very happy, and that's half the population.
I will point out that being led by one guy for so long could be as much of a detriment as a benafit for the HN...... less able to handle it when he eventually kicks the bucket.
It's a question of resources given the fact that a lack of resources is the main issue in trying to civilize this landscape. The only logical choice here is Skeletons, they are long lived, easy to fix/repair and require NO food or water. They are bound to win any major conflict through their exceptional ability to engage in attrition alone. Add on to that that they can care the least about the general state of their land insulating them from the normally crippling damage of trading-post raids and I think you have a basically guaranteed winner
kenshi mirrors real life, in how every nation plans to "succeed forever", but all of them ultimately fracture or crumble for one reason or another, leading to a new governance for a period of time.
How the Dead Hive? Once they wipe everyone else out they'll run out of food/ways to reproduce. But it won't get to that point, if they become that much of a threat the other factions will team up against them and wipe them out.
I never thought I'd get a fair and fairly in depth analysis of the Kenshi factions political and national state better than most real life political analysis. I love Kenshi. "The faction that has the most chance of success is the holy nation" - not after I was done with them that's for sure. You want to enslave my guy because he got himself a robotic limb after having a rock bottom start? You better be sure to have an army of King-level soldiers hanging around because I'm coming for you! (Also, what you do with the women in your country is your thing, everyone has their own culture and all, but you better not insult my squad-mates because I got their back and my fists are a lot tougher than yours, considering they're made out of metal and all).
I think the Holy Nation is stable at the moment, but incredibly stagnant. Phoenix seems to be the most extreme with the misogyny, but avoiding all future research when the game hints the arable land is shrinking is dogmatic religious foolishness. They’re most stable right now and the UC appears to be in decline, but one bad natural disaster or Kenshi continues to dry out and they’re toast. They’re too inflexible.
United Cities Forever! In the lore if remember correctly there is a reference that the old Emperor Anzai was assassinated by a plot orchestrated by Longen to control the Empire with the collusion of the Nobles. Disagree with you on their economy, UC do have a thriving middleclass of shop owners and what could be considered kulacks or successful farmers. Because poverty is illegal which means that the commoners are not poor, if they were they would be enslaved. That doesn't mean you're wrong in that there is no real economic protection, if you're not on the good side of the nobles or trading guild then you will most likely lose your property very fast and agree that they would fail their happiness criteria with peasent revolt, but not all peasents are revolting and not all commoners are poor because like stated poverty is illegal. Can't say I or you are 100% right, it's only a point hope you will take into consideration when thinking about the UC society.
I really enjoyed your analysis and was rather surprised to see the Holy Nation so well qualified to survive in the long-run in Kenshi. Just out of curiosity, what mods were you using? I think I saw a custom robot NPC roaming through one of the Shek cities and some custom Hive buildings, but was curious what those mods were.
I don't think the Holy Nation is as stable as it seems to be. It's technological level is going backwards, as seen from the nearby Holy ruins that have more advanced machinery. The current Phoenix is a long-lived and highly destructive one; part of a long-standing development on increased dogmatism. They are fighting a losing battle and that's their motif; lost territory, lost glory, lost honor, lost technology.. and now they are losing their vitality in their ambitions; every heretic is a unit of their economy to build their symbols of vainglory, in Rebirth. In the very mountains where they train their Phoenixes*, there is a Tech Hunter city, littered with old Phoenix statues! Mongrel, Flotsam, Hub - three hostile Ninja factions work against them, and they have no way of dealing with them. This is purposeful. HN wins on open fields of battle against the Shek, and can cause serious damage to the United Cities in Bast, but loses to subterfuge and underhanded tactics. HN is dying from within, slowly.. but surely. *HN mountain monasteries are sadly not in the game, but are mentioned.
I think your analysis of the Shek is a bit sketchy... You titled your video 'Can', not 'Have'. (And, note, I have no personal favorites among _any_ of the factions (listed or not)) With the Shek there might be a lot of 'if's on whether they 'Can' succeed, but that prediction should take the ifs into account. Your analysis only takes in to account what they currently 'have'.
I disagree on 2 points you made with the holy nation. 1. The fact that they at war on all fronts should be an automatic no on national security. 2. Freedom of personal movement should also be an automatic no when half of your population can't even legally own property, let alone "leave it behind". My first 'no spoiler' playthrough was a greenlander female. Trying to create an outpost in HN territory ended that run. I've destroyed HN every playthrough since.
@geonn0k56 True. Also, no one except holy nation would even attack the hivers. They are the lovable traders that don't really offend anyone... although they can be annoying when they get over zealous about selling stuff to you. I also forgot to mention that even though the HN might be doing well in their war on all fronts for now, if they lose on ANY front, they could collapse on ALL fronts. As demonstrated by my game where all their territories are now owned by Shek, flotsam ninjas, and UC
@Randlelikesdogs That's because they HAVE to be winning. If they lose on a single front, it could cause a domino effect of collapsing on all other fronts. That does not sound secure to me, that sounds like balancing on a knife-edge. Edit to add The front most likely to collapse first is the UC. Just comparing their military might with the mid-level units: -Holy sentinel level 37-43 stats with ok armor buy bad limb protection -Samurai gate guards 52-58 stats with good armor but weapons that suck against armor That's semi-even because of weapon choice, but HN units are gonna be losing some limbs
´´My first playthrough was a greenlander female. Trying to create an outpost in HN territory ended that run. I've destroyed HN every playthrough since´´ Oh my God! i´m so mad! Why they treat women like that?! they are the WORST! Yeah, we know why you Hate the Holy Nation... 😂😂
In my opinion the shek with Esata have the best chance, they are strong genetically speaking, they have some prejudice but at least they trade with everyone and if they push the HN they will get acces to some fertile land, the only problem is if Esata dies or the HN push them back.
7:50 The way I see it, this is wrong. We can legitimately say that 50% of the Holy Nation is constantly unhappy. All women in the Holy Nation are oppressed (it’s even in their holy book, women are agents of Narko or something). They live under the rule of Men (literally), and that is why so many people in the Flotsam ninjas are women (there’s even a potential lady follower that will only join up if talked to by another woman, because she suffered so much abuse by every single person with a ding ding in the Holy Nation on a daily basis). Yeah dawg, I’m calling you out
you cannot legitimately say that 50% is constantly unhappy. some of the woman are perfectly happy being oppressed, or at least pretend to be for the sake of protection.
I figured it would be the Holy Nation. It's also why I love joining the Flotsam Ninja cause. The United Cities feel like a Corpse, The Shek are just brutes with leashes until their new Leader dies. I would love for the Tech Hunters to Unify, however that's not game lore sadly. Kenshi is a broken world that allows broken ideologies to thrive.
I will say, I disagree that the holy nation citizens are happy, while some are, it seems there’s a growing resentment against the holy phoenix and holy nation citizens are indoctrinated and oppressed and I don’t really think you can call that happiness
Even if they are relatively stable now I also don't think history shows that as a recipe for long-term stability. This is why my answer to the question of which faction can survive long-term is "none of them". I think the Holy Nation would be the most likely to win the ongoing three-way war if left without player intervention but I also think the Holy Nation would collapse not long after to internal strife because of their oppressive and totalitarian nature as soon as they don't have any peer states left to war with. I think if the UC had won the war they might actually survive longer but probably not "United" for long so... arguably that would still mean *the* faction that is the United Cities would not survive. The Shek are a major toss-up, impossible to predict if they'll continue on a path of moderating themselves and building a more solid foundation for their future, or relapse into suicidal warrior culture stupidity again, either way they're not beating the Holy Nation without player intervention so even their short-term survival would depend on the UC winning and then NOT immediately turning on the Shek.
If we are talking holy nation then it's not happy at all. Women and other races are slaves. So that's far more than 50% of the population there. Then men who do not live up to the dogma are slaves too. The rest just hate it there in silence. The holy nation has the most deserters. So much so that just the deserters formed multiple powerful factions. The holy nation is also at war with everyone around them. Food security is their best trait. Safety only applies to human males but only as long as they are not forced into the military.
"Unbiased look" and using "freedom" as a metric in whatever context is not really congruent as it is an abstract concept that can't really be measured.
I wasn't discussing freedom as a concept. I was referring to "Freedom of Personal Movement," which is why I labeled it as that on the chart. By that, i refer to the ability for the citizens of the faction to leave ones own property with confidence that the overall "goverment" of the faction will protect the ownership and rights of that individuals property in their absence. Which is a real measurable metric in real world government/citizen relationships and is one of the foundational concepts of a Rupublic IRL. I also was referring to the safety one would have during such movement around the factions territory in comparison to the others or in the "wilds" So, I wasn't using "freedom" as a metric. I was using the relationship and security between the ruling faction and it's denizens to measure the ability to move about the faction territory without fear of loss of property or life.
Regarding Holy Nation citizen happiness: If you go only by citizenship and not by population then yeah, the holy nation is a dope place to live. But come on, you cannot not address the slavery x) by that metric the American south was the happiest place on earth in the 1860's.
@@HeroInHisHead it was in the desert, it was horned and like a namek ship, no way it was human or skele, had to be shek, had horns like shek horns. i dont know where it was right now, somewhere central eastern
I think your vid are great, and you tell stories quite well, but man dont take stuff personally, especially in this comment section. You thought I was tryin diss you, or somethin last year, but nah.
Oh you don't have to worry about that my guy. I don't take anything in my comment sections personally - Everyone is entitled to their own views and I'm down with that. I only put the disclosures in this video because I try to maintain an positive vibe on the channel and in my community, not cause it bothers me personally. As for me thinking you dissed me, I am sorry if my response came off that way or it seemed like I was bothered. I honestly have never responded to negative comments unless the criticism is valid - for examples check my Kenshi Multiplayer Video or 90% of people who watch my content from Reddit lol. TLDR: Don't worry my dude, I'm not fragile to my comments, and I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding. We are all good and thanks for the compliment
If you want to dominate Kenshi without much effort, go the Skeleton way. Because they do not need any food, are immune to poisons and acid and can easily replace their limbs which much better ones, it is that stupidly easy to conquer the whole World of Kenshi, it is already boring.
This video is so not what Kenshi should be about. You're not the first but I seriously think these logical arguments are just so fucking stupid for a game that's supposed to be about how creative you can be as a player. This so called "creative community" unironically excepts the HOLY NATION as it's only possible savior. I don't think I need to say any more then that.
It's so weird how a 6 year old game made by a single guy, in a forgotten engine, can give SO MUCH content to be digested by the fans. This is the reason for loving gaming as a medium.
The reason is that it is not tainted by "WOKE".
@@donelkingii3738 Everything's fucking woke apparently. Don't even know what the word means anymore other than 'shit I don't like'
@@perhaps1094 they don't even saying that lmao
@@donelkingii3738odd, i'd say a game where one of the biggest factions is some religious nutjobs who opress strqngers and women in the name of their false god and the other being a corrupt capitalistic nightmare so far away from morality that they enslave people for being poor is a pretty nice criticism of modern politics
@@perhaps1094it means anything polluted by Western progressive culture
Skin Bandits:
Economy (X) We humans have a thriving economy, particularly noteworthy for our distance from other commercial hubs.
Political Stability (X) Savant has ruled our people with grace and wisdom for many years!
National Security (X) Roving bands of helpful humans patrol all across the sonorous dark to prevent our fellows from having their soft, succulent flesh pierced by predators or assailants
Personal Movement (X) Of course, friend! Go wherever you wish. Leave your fresh human skin here and we will take good care of it.
Infrastructure (X) Not only have we repurposed old empire infrastructure, but we have added to it with amazing new technologies that elevate the lowly skeleton into a true union with glorious skin!
Happiness (X) Who wouldn't be happy to be a soft, sticky human!
Entirely valid. How can i join?
@MorganNull-uj6uu *LE GASP*
Ok,now it's time for skelly bandidos
I cant argue with that lol. Especially because im in a pealer right now...
Counter point, no crabs
There is that UC news pamphlet that talks about Sheks "flooding into the cities", I like to think those are all the Sheks that aren't able to keep up with the extreme warrior culture and want to live a normal life. A lot of Sheks probably emigrate because the kingdom is oppressive like the HN but in a different way. This might be the largest factor of their population crisis that gets talked about. I like to think Esata is like Moll and it was a lot more oppressive and xenophobic before she took over. She has to play a balancing act between the practical necessities of making a stable nation with the suicidal warrior culture. That's probably why she wants her daughter to learn from the foreign perspective of the player.
For all of its problems it's kind of cool that the Holy Nation shows that a nation in Kenshi can provide a stable food supply with only free citizens farming. It's an example that proves the UC doesn't actually need slavery to keep everyone fed. It also shows that an entire economy can function without slavery since their numerous slaves only mine stones for holy statues. HN is evidence that defenders of UC slavery who say it's a practical necessity are wrong. I'm not an HN fan by any means but if you took only the good from HN and UC you could have a great civilization.
I also understand that a few people like to troll or hint at extreme real life politics behind supporting HN on the forums, so I don't blame people for being suspicious or defensive or this topic being so heated sometimes. But obviously this video was made in good faith and I enjoyed it!
I mean, the HN practices slavery, just of half the population. Still requires it to function, unfortunately
You forget that the holy nation has one of the most fertile kand in kenshi, its way harder to make food in a desert
@@renadex4905why don’t they just farm cactus? Are they stupid? Jokes aside it’s true but I’d argue that the HN has a similar population due to the sheer number of patrols even though they don’t have as much land, and only okrans pride is fertile while every other place is also desert, the UC has fertile land like storms gap so they get less slack from me because they have way more land. This and the fact that the shek also live in a desert and actively look down on farming also don’t have mass starvation the UC get no slack from me.
What about the Crab Riders?
best armor in the whole game, hardest patroll squads in the whole game, massive amphbious armored crab armies,, their raids put the shek to shame, they hold the blood reavers, grass pirates, gurglers, skeleton bandits and skin bandits back and the first to settle in conquered territory with several prosperous bases across hazardous terrain
Kenshi lore is really amazing a true work of love
Also the tech hunters have the tech game in lockdown every other nation either depends on them for that kind of stuff or can't compete.
and while there production is reliant on others they make there own food have good stockpiles are nigh unassailable thanks to worlds end and since there a information based organazation if any one faction went hard on them they could just go around
Regarding tech hunter infrastructure I believe they have some hydroponic farms in worlds end. Other than that they would be entirely reliant on trade caravans.
@MorganNull-uj6uu In what way? I was referring to infrastructure to produce food.
Most of them are adventurer, not elite but decent enough. Their base are also scattered throughout the Kenshi Moon so i think they indeed relies on Trade Caravans for other supplies like medical supplies, equipments,… One thing I’m quite sure is they have very good logistic system, either by themselves or coming from Shinobi, Trade Ninja, Free Trader, Nomad, or even outsourcing it to Skeleton. Tech Hunter and Mongrel are my favorites.
I think the Hivers are content. Happy is perhaps an alien concept for them. That said, I often find Beep to be naturally happy but then again, we could say that is just content.
Beep is Actually Uniquely Happy #kenshi #lore #kenshi2
Content is happiness for grownups.
I don't think Bast was the breadbasket of the UC. In game dialogue talks about it being destroyed just as it started getting going.
I think the colonisation of Bast by the UC was a desperate attempt to get the crops they need but in doing so started massive border friction with the HN and in addition I am pretty sure that the HN is trading food under the table to the UC for slaves through the Traders Guild because the Phoenix is not happy if you kidnap the Traders Guild leader. Also in addition The HN has a destroyed village where Okrans Arms open up into the Bast cauldron implying their own colonisation efforts thwarted by what was probably cannibal raids.
TLDR Bast was new & UC are messing with economies and borders in the process stepping on alot of toes
The UC breadbasket was the Hook. The southern uc is where the food comes from
The reason there is starvation is due to the anti-slavers raiding caravans. Tinfist states that "the world gets darker before it gets lighter"
Hes purposefully doing this.
I'm not generally a political guy, but I hope Kenshi 2 starts before the United Cities are united and we have more factions with intrigue and loyalties and whatnot.
If I remember correctly I think they said Kenshi 2 will take place during or just after the collapse of Catlon's Empire.
kenshi 2 will take place 1000 years before kenshi, it will be set somewhere around the times of the 2nd empire
Yes you can see based off of the art that the infrastructure is dissimilar to Kenshi 1, meaning it must be Second Empire old tech that UC never had
Isn’t it also suppose to take place on a different continent?
@@michaelwilson5866 same continent but 1000 years ago, during or right after the collapse of the 2nd empire
I think one of the best possible alliances is between the Shek and the Tech Hunters. And they would be a practically unstoppable force.
They have a common enemy, they can trade with each other and they are very strong beings. Tech Hunters can provide better weapons and armor and Sheks can provide brute strength.
It is a union between scientists and soldiers.
Basecely they wuld be germans.
Bearing in mind that the ultimate goal of a lot of the shek people is to fight everyone, I do think that arming them would be some kind of suicide in the long run
a society that separates its scholars and soldiers will have its thinking done by cowards and fighting by fools, the shek kingdoms fighting is already done by fools without the thinking part
The shek would never, they HATE anyone that doesn’t fight, making their own people second class citizens just for not dying in battle, and that’s under the “progressive” stone golem, the shek actively fought and murder everyone through out their history for no other reason than dying in battle, I really like the shek but they are terrible in most things. Honestly if the HN got their sh** together they would be a power house
Such a good video!
In fact, the answer was more than obvious, even despite the negative attitude towards the Holy Nation by many players.
My preference for the Shek Kingdom is purely from a roleplaying perspective. The player himself finds the faction almost in a state of decline and through his actions can lead it to some kind of “prosperity”.
Although it is due to the seizure of fertile territories, the expansion of the very borders of the kingdom and the destruction of enemies))
Morality aside, I think if most people were somehow magically transported to the Kenshi world - they would likely be happy to fall in line under the Holy Nation. Especially if they spent any time outside of it, and lived with those experiences.
I’m pretty sure the HN only really got as repressive as it is recently due to the current phenox, the only parts of bad stuff baked in to the HN is hatred of skeletons and technology, but due to what skeletons did I’m iffy on them since every skeleton alive was apart of the atrocities they did unlike everyone else
The Holy Nation is one of the most stable civilizations in Kenshi but they’re running up against a wall.
Rebirth is a recent project and the Flotsam Ninjas still have some ingrained religious intolerances. Meaning women becoming second class citizens, and the use of religious slaves happened under the current Phoenix.
If religious doctrine continues to radicalize and divide their own citizens they won’t be able to keep up their war fronts. It’s why if the player helps the Flotsam Ninjas overthrow the Holy Nation they immediately lose territory to all of their neighbors.
Minor point: World's End does have a hydroponics operation, two storehouses equipped for the purpose.
Not exactly going to do more than subsistence with that, but given the higher than normal skeleton population there, it helps!
Hey man just wanted to say I have been listening to your stuff for a while and I really apperciate how detailed and interesting your videos are. I love playing kenshi while listening to these lore videos
I love how games like this SLAP AAA gaming companies right in their stupid faces
We're in a Gaming Renaissance and its thanks to indie companies #kenshi #kenshi2 #indiegame #shorts
It would be cool a video about how the Swamp influences the United Cities and the world
Fun Facts about The Swamp #kenshi #lore #kenshi2
@@HeroInHisHeadThats amazing man thanks!!
I’m curious too. Yamdu says Swamper help UC get rich and keep the nobles in check.
your wrong about the united cities a bit, they do have a middle class of artisans and those who work for the trade guild
The irony of most of us destroying the Holy Nation, is we doom the moon of Kenshi to oblivion, death from cannibals, fogmen, they also seem to REALLY hate skimmers and raptors. There demise also brings the entire moon to the brink of starvation, once the current Phoenix dies of old age, someone less ... him... will take over and things will improve.
I really like the Tech Hunters, yet they are heeled by their Machinist leader Iyo who has anyone that discovers too much bumped off (something that all skeletons pretend not to know) Tech Hunters are always the best thing you can run into in the wastes, which makes them more tragic.
Great series btw.
If you think the next Phoenix won't be as much of a zealot as his predecessor after being raised in the same nightmarescape created by said predecessor, you're simply wrong. Especially if he's raised by the same inquisitors and lunatics who have thoroughly infested the Holy Nation's entire structure.
@@Boglorio The current Phoenix is the worst one they have ever had. People like to think the Holy Nation is THE bad guy. There are no real bad guy factions, no good guy factions. Destroying the Holy Nation, may feel good, yet it condemns most of humanity to starvation, the United Cities already lost their bread basket, the Holy Nation is more wealthy then it was, land and food wise, even the Paladins admit the current Phoenix is basically a monster. No easy solutions, no easy answers, also they are the only faction capable of stopping Cat-Lon if he decides to return, since their weapons are anti Skeleton, also remember there are those like Griffon looking for answers, on good standing with the Holy Nation, and nop Iyo to kill them if they learn the truth. Have faith brother, lest humanity's light be extinguished.
@@UnCLePSYchO The current paladins admitting he's a monster and then enforcing his orders is why the Holy Nation is doomed to further corruption. If you think the society that runs Rebirth, a concentration camp where you build a pointless statue forever until you die isn't evil, you need to re-evaluate your morals.
is it though? the shek can take over and it's fine hell there army seems to expand the rebel farmers are fully capable of making the united cities there's if they ally with the antislavers honestly these things are only a problem if the nations in question implode and subject the world the a grisly power vacum so not really a problem
Sometimes salvation ain't as pretty as it seems
I mean cannibals seem pretty successful to me 😂
Love this analysis, very well done and visually marvelous!
I think the Traders Guild is the most powerful non-faction faction in Kenshi via controlling the currency. The grid shutdown and famine events would favor a group of people who make money based on reliance of the flow of goods/services via cats. Constant wars and conflicts ensure maximum opportunity to profit from price variances and keep people from destroying the major factions that the TG uses to their advantage - and factions are kept in check from their internal conflicts as well. I'm extrapolating this from my experiences in Kenshi and don't have references to back it up - but the logic is there based on what they're about.
Prosperous economy - They own the economy, not for the average citizen but for people like Longen, et. al. Bartering does exist, but the majority of trade happens in cats (second to that would be specific trade goods). It would be interesting if there are multiple currency types in Kenshi 2 that end up being replaced/overtaken by cats, and debt could be interesting if integrated into the rest of the lore.
Political stability - They foster political instability to consolidate their control over cats, thus it's a weapon for them. Longen put Tengu in power to maintain control over the UC and its economy. Sense of National Security - They have no sense of nationalism (or if they do, it's secretive/informal) other than getting more control over cats.
Freedom of personal movement - Their lord is currency and thus they don't care about that.
Infrastructure - They use faction infrastructure, therefore needing none of their own.
Happiness of its people - They don't care, as any blame for misery goes to whichever faction is allegedly in control in that area.
I figured the HN would do amazing with a question like this. The HN is by far my favorite faction, outside of the women oppression stuff they are the type of faction I love in video games with an organized humanity fighting off powerful outside threats. The slavery stuff of UC is also fun to play around. I like the friction their cultures give with the HN religion and slavery in the UC, it's fun gameplay navigating these issues rather than the generic stuff most games give you like with the Shek kingdom.
Having your characters enslaved after a failed battle and needing to rescue them or escape is just fun to play around. With the HN stuff I like the friction that can happen with the religion stuff and racism (when it's not based on skin color, humans hating on bug men and skeletons is perfectly fine and logical!), the only thing I really hate is how buggy it can be with paladins running up asking me to hand over non humans when I only have humans in my party.
The Shek are a boring faction imo, they just have some people that yap with nothing interesting going on. I feel like they needed to add something special to the Shek Kingdom that would give the player a little friction in an interesting way. Even Hivers ignore hiveless to give you a little friction, I find too few games are willing to give fun friction in games and tend to just have everything go the players way.
I would argue that the tech hunters have good infrastructure in the same way that the western hive does. Its very obvious that the tech hunters are able to use the tech they scavenge, which is why most of there cities are very well structured and built, and although they don't have much in the sense of roads, its arguable that roads are sorta unnecessary to a faction that is often off the beaten path anyway. Many of the other points against there infrastructure come from them simply being more of a giant guild rather than a roaring faction which I feel like makes a difference as they will always be connected to other factions to a degree making self sustainability (albeit they could use hydroponics as seen in worlds end) to not be as necessary.
My guess? Probably none, or a Skeleton faction, since it seems highly unlikely to me that the moon in such a state can remain hospitable to human life for very long (well, relatively speaking, but you did specify "long-term" :D). When it has lost that much surface water but *not* through cooling leading to expansion of the ice caps, seemingly rather the opposite of cooling has been happening, that bodes... super ill. Global warming death-spiral ill, water evaporation causing increase in greenhouse effect causing increased evaporation... Only question is which happens first; too warm to live there, or not enough water left to live there?
Though, even if we discard the climate angle, my answer would still be none of them... I think without player interference the Holy Nation would probably "win" the current wars, likely destroying any peer it has... but that still doesn't mean it's going to last, and I don't think it could. Maybe even *especially* without a great war to fight.
What about the southern hive? They're have the unity of the western hive but are warriors like the shek, they also have King, I feel they have a good chance of taking over the world.
Great video as always, keep up the good stuff! 👍
When you really think about it, the player faction is the best faction in the entire game. The only thing theoretically holding it back is that it's limited to 30 members (even though that's probably just a gameplay limitation)
But imagine; Your faction can posess some of the most powerful technology still avalibe in the world, automated mines and refineries that only require 1 person to operate, hydrophonic plants that can grow in any enviroment as long as there is water, advanced copper alloy metal buildings to protect you from natural disasters, blacksmiths who can mass produce weapons and armor the likes of which are barely rivaled by any other smith in the modern day, medical tech that lets you heal any wound, repair any damage and make prosthetic limbs that make your people far stronger than they used to be.
If you commit to doing research and toning your character's skills, your faction will live like kings compared to the average Kenshi citizen. The UC and the shek kingdom wishes it had anything remotely close to that, and the HN is probably too afraid of it or would consider it heretical
Can't wait for Kenshi 2. Gonna roleplay Cat-Lon and commit genocide on the entire map lmao
Holy Nation being the most stable and prosperous makes perfect sense.
the truth most kenshi players don't want to hear is that holy nation is only villain in our modern world view.
No, they are all bad. Every last group slaughter without mercy. Shek live to fight killing any who are not strong enough to fight them off. HN are Zenophobic and sexist. And my favorite and last major factions economy is based off slave labor
Nobody is good in Kenshi, some just aren't as evil as others.
I hate the HN because its difficult to be anything but a male human. I hate the Empire because if your poor they'll snag you up and enslave you. I hate the Shek the least, since you have to build on their land before they kill you, and they don't care about anything else.
No, they are all bad. Every last group slaughter without mercy. Shek live to fight killing any who are not strong enough to fight them off. HN are Zenophobic and sexist. And my favorite and last major factions economy is based off slave labor
Nobody is good in Kenshi, some just aren't as evil as others.
I hate the HN because its difficult to be anything but a male human. I hate the Empire because if your poor they'll snag you up and enslave you. I hate the Shek the least, since you have to build on their land before they kill you, and they don't care about anything else.
That's because they act like we used too a couple hundred years ago.
UC acts like the end era of feudal Japan.
True, only the abject luxury of the modern world allows us to behave anyway other than similarly to Holy Nation.
Slave camps for women where they are sentenced to hard labor in mines did not exist, bro.
Also, we had some pretty good civilizations even in ancient times.
your perfectionism is appreciated, don't give up on those "Y-Building's" just yet sooner or later their piece of the perfect settlement puzzle will be revealed!!! lol
much love from California
What's odd here is when I play I usually chose to join the Holy Nation, the one most apt to succeed. My second most go to is the Shek, which seems the least likely to succeed. I did once make a free hive faction where I pretty much rounded up ever hiver I found, it was a fun unique game. I set up in the Howler Maze in the creator in the south, it took a bit to manage the crabs, and I got raded by random factions in the south, but the crabs and acid rain thinned out their numbers usually before they got to me, it was a very self efficient and rather isolationist style of play.
I never really sided with the UC though, there does not seem like a lot of redeeming qualities to it. They do have some good shops, but you don't have to join them to visit.
Answer: MINE'S! (Then proceeds to be Beakthinged by day 12)
I think the United Cities have more chances of succeeding than the Holy Nation. Two reasons:
1. The UC are an economical powerhouse. We are not looking at whether their economy is ethical or fair; it works very well for an elite - just like in the real world, and such societies tend to thrive the most, even if all society/system eventually collapse.
To a certain degree the Holy Nation is trying to do the good thing, and be there for all its citizens - who abide to its rules, but that's precisely why the HN can't spread wide; they can't sustain that approach on a very large scale; remember there is only one true leader, which is fine with a relatively small or average empire, but not fine with a bigger one, not long term. Which leads to my second point.
2. The UC is more flexible than the HN. The nobles may seem to do whathever they want, or Tengu doesn't seem to have real control over all of the UC, but it's just like any decentralised systems. It's not a dictature, and that's why they have more chance of survival. The UC can adapt, survive and eventually thrive despite the paysan revolt. How? The UC and especially Trader leaders just have to share some of the wealth with the heads of the revolt, or just get rid of them (asssassins). They are a pragmatist bunch whose only interest is profit - not slavery or unfairness: PROFIT. Even if the nobles are overthrown, the people who will replace them will do just that: replace them at the head of the UC. The United Cities will remain. Remember it's Kenshi, it's all about doing whatever is necessary to survive.
The HN on the other hands, as it's shown on the video check all the boxes on paper; it almost like a perfect political system experiment. But if you cut their head it all crumble. No one can replace the Holy Pheonix. No one that has not been carefully selected and prepared for that role. Same, if the HN tries to expand behond its current borders, the backclash will be fatal. Remember again, it's Kenshi, and most of the population of that island is fiercely independant. Yeah there are a lot of slavery going on, but it's mostly for profit - that's unfortunate I know - it's not because those enslaved people were born with certain traits. Also maybe half of the population of Kenshi doesn't fit the HN standard, there are a lot of people with horns, robotics, etc. and just as much people who don't believe and don't care to believe in the Phoenix, or go to church every week. They will fight for their freedom, the HN will drain its energy to keep them in check - remember it's their way or nothing, they don't adapt, and their system which is "nice" on paper won't be able to sustain itself with wars on all sides.
Just look at our current world or our history. Religious empire can shine for a short while but either they get corrupted or they crumble. The safer way for religious powers to survive is usually behind the scene. It does better a backing the power in place rather than being that power. In a world such as Kenshi the most ruthless and the ones who a ready to bend the rules, and who are seeking profit - often at the detriment of others - will succeed.
Societies where the elites thrive at the expense of the populace do not succeed in the real world though. You're actively living in the collapse of the Western World because of it.
This is why the Uc would be better worth taking down if there ruler was tyrant
I disagree, this was not a question who would be the best for Kenshi (as in controlling all of it.) but rather what faction could succeed and that's what the HN has done for a fairly long time.
The HN has done well for themselves these last 1000 years, they do need a new Phoenix as this one is too harsh on women and that's caused issues but overall they are fine, stable and a strong nation.
They don't need to continuously expand to be a successful nation, the land of Kenshi simply does not support it for any faction. Their society is not as advanced as others so all they really need is food and steel, and they have great excess of both, their economy does not work the same as the other factions.
The HN also has leaders other than the Pheonix otherwise they would not have lasted 1000 years. The new Pheonix is simply groomed into the role while the churches leadership continues to run things as always. So yes someone can replace the Pheonix, himself as once he dies a new child replaces him. Rather than nobles like the UC the HN has members in their church run the cities.
Lastly it does not matter if 1/2 the moons population does not fit with them as they are not a part of the HN or in the HN lands. Those that disagree with the HN leave their lands one way or another.
Thanks for being as objective as you could. I really do appreciate it, it makes the conversation far more engaging.
Believe it or not, I don't actually require a 30 minute video about a video game to understand that slavery and oppression are terrible things.
4:36 I mean, there are the Holy Nation Outlaws who believe that the Phoenix has been corrupted or something of the sorts, but I guess they aren't that major either.
The Holy Nation Outlaws are Basically Just Escaped Criminals & Draft Dodgers #kenshi #kenshi2 #Lore
Something that has always been on my mind about Kenshi is that if Fogmen are just hivers that have went insane cause they lost their queen and her pheramones kept them normal and part of the hive then wouldn't hiveless like Beep eventually turn fogmen and since allot of players would see killing all the hive queens as a goal in their playthrough wouldn't all the hives end up also turning which would be horrible for every other faction since allot more parts of the map would end up being like the foglands and some cities would fall and well in the holy nation it probably wouldn't take long for the people to turn on each other and the same would go for the free cities meanwhile the shek might be the best prepared for it since they are probably the only faction with their people united
Hiver Reproduction in 60 seconds #kenshi #kenshi2 #gametheory #shorts
The problem with the holy nation is that same as the legion from fallout new vegas. They are incredibly reliant on their leader, the holy nation is the only major faction that crumbles immediately upon taking their leaders out, compared to the shek for example where you have to take multiple leaders out before the cities fall, since once one falls another shek takes its place and even before the events of the game take place a change of leadership has happened, same for the united cities, the death of tengu doesn't immediately crumble the entire cookie, not too sure about the tech hunters tho
Sort of..but it's more complicated. #kenshi #kenshi2 #lore
That's actually a very good point against The Holy Nation's political stability. If you take out 3 individuals the entire nation collapses due to, what seems to be, their multiple enemies overwhelming them, with the Flotsam taking over the capital, the Shek taking over the rest of their cities, the Fogmen and United Cities destroying/taking over their military bases in the west and east respectively. With United Cities you need to kill a lot of nobles to put a dent on the faction, and the end result is that the peasants take over (though some cities fall to bandits iirc) and even the already politically unstable Shek Kingdom requires you to kill two (or even three) faction leaders before it collapses. The Holy Nation's stability might be an illusion after all, if the elimination of a couple of key individuals causes them to lose their lands that quickly.
@@Giorgal Not only that but they are as suicidal and as kill thirsty as the shek they hate, if we assume gameplay is cannon, taking down the phoenix will trigger 2 wraths of god, each being lead by the other 2 inquisitors... so they actually hand themselves to you, if you already won in their home territory, what chance do they think they have ON YOUR territory?
UC is huge but we have much more shows of how powerfull HN is, the territory north is full of destroyed cities by the paladins and is said to happened in a single day, just to show how capable they are in every area , their only flaw is the slavery, being so agresive with other species is even needed in a world like kenshi when you dont know when something will go crazy
0:39 well 3 of them might succeed, 1 maybe, the last 2...well they're creating their own graves. FN, Skelis and hovers have a larger chance of success. SK is kinda iffy, they tend to be chaotic good, HN and those other guys......nah, they're playing with huge pits of fire
I think the Shek are heading in the right direction under new leadership. Considering they were almost wiped out not long ago and are at the time of the game a major faction suggests this.
It's possible but it's certainly equally as likely that their change of direction won't last. When you tour their lands and cities you don't exactly get the sense that Esata has her people squarely behind her. Player intervention taking out Kral's Chosen and the Berserkers would probably help though. Fewer (loudly and violently) dissenting voices that way.
Suggestion; instead of an asterix you could put the uncertain traits into brackets for future videos
X / (X)
just seems more selfdescriptive than
X/X*
if there is no textmark on what the asterix means
I want to build a nation in shem that coexists with other nations (as far as possible in kenshi). Is there a way to bring people in other than recruiting them? (Vanilla or via Mods)
I'd like my recruits to provide security an a basic amount of infrastructure. Apart of that it would be cool if the npcs would farm/trade by themselves
Great video. Unrelated question: Do you happen to use a reshade?
TSUKI.V2
@@HeroInHisHead Gracias Jefe. Viva Okran.
I'd argue a few points about the holy nation:
"Growing and prospering economy": prospering? - sure, by kenshi's standards. Though on your point that there's hardly any poverty there - they do have A LOT of starving bandits roaming around.
Growing? They don't seem to have grown much in the last one thousand years. They're the same feudal society they've always been. And with their hatred of technology, I don't think that's going to change. Ever. They're the type of civilization that can spend an eternity not changing at all, unless outside forces force them to.
Happiness? - I don't think their women are very happy, and that's half the population.
Man, face it, out of all thebfactions they are the most successful one
Tech Hunters are the only way forward, basically.
What is that bulky thing waddling through squin between 12:23 and 13:15?
Found the spider foreman would really love to know the lore on this guy.
Man thats exactly what i needed thanks
Here is your upvote and a comment for the metrics.
Great vid as always
If a sense of property doesn’t exist for the hive, then how come we can’t use their beds
Good video mate.
What mod are you using for that robot at 13:08?
I will point out that being led by one guy for so long could be as much of a detriment as a benafit for the HN...... less able to handle it when he eventually kicks the bucket.
It's a question of resources given the fact that a lack of resources is the main issue in trying to civilize this landscape. The only logical choice here is Skeletons, they are long lived, easy to fix/repair and require NO food or water. They are bound to win any major conflict through their exceptional ability to engage in attrition alone. Add on to that that they can care the least about the general state of their land insulating them from the normally crippling damage of trading-post raids and I think you have a basically guaranteed winner
A Skeletom Faction Wouldn't Succeed on Kenshi #kenshi #lore #kenshi2
kenshi mirrors real life, in how every nation plans to "succeed forever", but all of them ultimately fracture or crumble for one reason or another, leading to a new governance for a period of time.
I feel like the crab raiders would get at least 5/6 of these right
If the only criteria was long term survival I'd have said the Southern Hive. Or the Dead Hive.
How the Dead Hive? Once they wipe everyone else out they'll run out of food/ways to reproduce. But it won't get to that point, if they become that much of a threat the other factions will team up against them and wipe them out.
@@Mortyrian You positive on how they breed? I think that's still just theory.
@@iansomniac700 I am not positive, but there is no sign of a deadhive queen.
@@Mortyrian Nobody knows. I just posted the original comment to see what folks thought.
I never thought I'd get a fair and fairly in depth analysis of the Kenshi factions political and national state better than most real life political analysis. I love Kenshi.
"The faction that has the most chance of success is the holy nation" - not after I was done with them that's for sure. You want to enslave my guy because he got himself a robotic limb after having a rock bottom start? You better be sure to have an army of King-level soldiers hanging around because I'm coming for you!
(Also, what you do with the women in your country is your thing, everyone has their own culture and all, but you better not insult my squad-mates because I got their back and my fists are a lot tougher than yours, considering they're made out of metal and all).
I think the Holy Nation is stable at the moment, but incredibly stagnant. Phoenix seems to be the most extreme with the misogyny, but avoiding all future research when the game hints the arable land is shrinking is dogmatic religious foolishness. They’re most stable right now and the UC appears to be in decline, but one bad natural disaster or Kenshi continues to dry out and they’re toast. They’re too inflexible.
The holy nation has god on it's side. No brainer from a post-apocalyptic fiction scripture.
Crabs!!!
Crabs over here.
Crabs over there!
We love crabs!
Everywhere.
CRABS!!!
Praise Stobe!
What about after a successful rebel farmer takeover? I wonder if the UC would become a better world after its fall
Gonna turn all of Holy Nation's X's into -'s.
Praise the Okran!
I did figure some but not others, specially the Tech Hunters and the Western Hive in terms of happiness of its people. Cheers.
United Cities Forever!
In the lore if remember correctly there is a reference that the old Emperor Anzai was assassinated by a plot orchestrated by Longen to control the Empire with the collusion of the Nobles. Disagree with you on their economy, UC do have a thriving middleclass of shop owners and what could be considered kulacks or successful farmers. Because poverty is illegal which means that the commoners are not poor, if they were they would be enslaved. That doesn't mean you're wrong in that there is no real economic protection, if you're not on the good side of the nobles or trading guild then you will most likely lose your property very fast and agree that they would fail their happiness criteria with peasent revolt, but not all peasents are revolting and not all commoners are poor because like stated poverty is illegal. Can't say I or you are 100% right, it's only a point hope you will take into consideration when thinking about the UC society.
All Hail our savior Lord Holy Phoenix!!
I really enjoyed your analysis and was rather surprised to see the Holy Nation so well qualified to survive in the long-run in Kenshi. Just out of curiosity, what mods were you using? I think I saw a custom robot NPC roaming through one of the Shek cities and some custom Hive buildings, but was curious what those mods were.
I don't think the Holy Nation is as stable as it seems to be. It's technological level is going backwards, as seen from the nearby Holy ruins that have more advanced machinery. The current Phoenix is a long-lived and highly destructive one; part of a long-standing development on increased dogmatism. They are fighting a losing battle and that's their motif; lost territory, lost glory, lost honor, lost technology.. and now they are losing their vitality in their ambitions; every heretic is a unit of their economy to build their symbols of vainglory, in Rebirth.
In the very mountains where they train their Phoenixes*, there is a Tech Hunter city, littered with old Phoenix statues! Mongrel, Flotsam, Hub - three hostile Ninja factions work against them, and they have no way of dealing with them. This is purposeful. HN wins on open fields of battle against the Shek, and can cause serious damage to the United Cities in Bast, but loses to subterfuge and underhanded tactics. HN is dying from within, slowly.. but surely.
*HN mountain monasteries are sadly not in the game, but are mentioned.
I love Audible
I think your analysis of the Shek is a bit sketchy...
You titled your video 'Can', not 'Have'. (And, note, I have no personal favorites among _any_ of the factions (listed or not)) With the Shek there might be a lot of 'if's on whether they 'Can' succeed, but that prediction should take the ifs into account. Your analysis only takes in to account what they currently 'have'.
Why was the Bugmaster creating such a large army?
Why is The Bugmaster Building an Army? #kenshi #kenshi2 #lore
for sure the hive and the robots.
I disagree on 2 points you made with the holy nation.
1. The fact that they at war on all fronts should be an automatic no on national security.
2. Freedom of personal movement should also be an automatic no when half of your population can't even legally own property, let alone "leave it behind".
My first 'no spoiler' playthrough was a greenlander female. Trying to create an outpost in HN territory ended that run. I've destroyed HN every playthrough since.
This, and also I'll like to add that national security to the hive is the security of the queen, bc that's how the hive works
@geonn0k56 True. Also, no one except holy nation would even attack the hivers. They are the lovable traders that don't really offend anyone... although they can be annoying when they get over zealous about selling stuff to you.
I also forgot to mention that even though the HN might be doing well in their war on all fronts for now, if they lose on ANY front, they could collapse on ALL fronts. As demonstrated by my game where all their territories are now owned by Shek, flotsam ninjas, and UC
I disagree if your wining on all fronts then I think it’s a yes
@Randlelikesdogs That's because they HAVE to be winning. If they lose on a single front, it could cause a domino effect of collapsing on all other fronts. That does not sound secure to me, that sounds like balancing on a knife-edge.
Edit to add
The front most likely to collapse first is the UC.
Just comparing their military might with the mid-level units:
-Holy sentinel level 37-43 stats with ok armor buy bad limb protection
-Samurai gate guards 52-58 stats with good armor but weapons that suck against armor
That's semi-even because of weapon choice, but HN units are gonna be losing some limbs
´´My first playthrough was a greenlander female. Trying to create an outpost in HN territory ended that run. I've destroyed HN every playthrough since´´
Oh my God! i´m so mad! Why they treat women like that?! they are the WORST!
Yeah, we know why you Hate the Holy Nation... 😂😂
In my opinion the shek with Esata have the best chance, they are strong genetically speaking, they have some prejudice but at least they trade with everyone and if they push the HN they will get acces to some fertile land, the only problem is if Esata dies or the HN push them back.
The Shek Can't Push Back The Holy Nation #kenshi #lore #kenshi2
@@HeroInHisHead #stoptheHNpropaganda
@SrLoueiz tell them to stop not me lol. I'm just a delivery boi
Who would win, two massive authoritarian regimes or a one-armed nobody with a grudge and a dream.
Usually the one-armed nobody, but that's because I can't resist my Shek runs.
Whats your reshade preset ?
TSUKI.v2
@@HeroInHisHead thx
Kid name ceed:
7:50 The way I see it, this is wrong. We can legitimately say that 50% of the Holy Nation is constantly unhappy. All women in the Holy Nation are oppressed (it’s even in their holy book, women are agents of Narko or something). They live under the rule of Men (literally), and that is why so many people in the Flotsam ninjas are women (there’s even a potential lady follower that will only join up if talked to by another woman, because she suffered so much abuse by every single person with a ding ding in the Holy Nation on a daily basis).
Yeah dawg, I’m calling you out
I thought this too
you cannot legitimately say that 50% is constantly unhappy. some of the woman are perfectly happy being oppressed, or at least pretend to be for the sake of protection.
I figured it would be the Holy Nation. It's also why I love joining the Flotsam Ninja cause. The United Cities feel like a Corpse, The Shek are just brutes with leashes until their new Leader dies. I would love for the Tech Hunters to Unify, however that's not game lore sadly.
Kenshi is a broken world that allows broken ideologies to thrive.
you missed techocial pogress and , Korruption
Do Technology Progress and Corruption Matter? #kenshi #lore #kenshi2
@@HeroInHisHead I think so, hydroponic is way superiors than standard farming considering most ground conditions in kenshi.
Holy nation paid this guy to make this bs propaganda 🙄
I received a loaf of bread and a chewstick as a compensatory payment.
HN ist like ancient egypt. Nil give them live
love the holy nation, praise okran,downj with the shek!
Be careful listeners. This is Holy Nation Propaganda, it is directly sponsored by the Holy Priests.
I will say, I disagree that the holy nation citizens are happy, while some are, it seems there’s a growing resentment against the holy phoenix and holy nation citizens are indoctrinated and oppressed and I don’t really think you can call that happiness
Even if they are relatively stable now I also don't think history shows that as a recipe for long-term stability. This is why my answer to the question of which faction can survive long-term is "none of them". I think the Holy Nation would be the most likely to win the ongoing three-way war if left without player intervention but I also think the Holy Nation would collapse not long after to internal strife because of their oppressive and totalitarian nature as soon as they don't have any peer states left to war with. I think if the UC had won the war they might actually survive longer but probably not "United" for long so... arguably that would still mean *the* faction that is the United Cities would not survive. The Shek are a major toss-up, impossible to predict if they'll continue on a path of moderating themselves and building a more solid foundation for their future, or relapse into suicidal warrior culture stupidity again, either way they're not beating the Holy Nation without player intervention so even their short-term survival would depend on the UC winning and then NOT immediately turning on the Shek.
@ the best faction for long term survival is probably the swamp honestly
Was that even a question? It was pretty obvious😅
sand ninjas
If we are talking holy nation then it's not happy at all.
Women and other races are slaves.
So that's far more than 50% of the population there.
Then men who do not live up to the dogma are slaves too. The rest just hate it there in silence.
The holy nation has the most deserters. So much so that just the deserters formed multiple powerful factions.
The holy nation is also at war with everyone around them.
Food security is their best trait.
Safety only applies to human males but only as long as they are not forced into the military.
"Unbiased look" and using "freedom" as a metric in whatever context is not really congruent as it is an abstract concept that can't really be measured.
I wasn't discussing freedom as a concept. I was referring to "Freedom of Personal Movement," which is why I labeled it as that on the chart.
By that, i refer to the ability for the citizens of the faction to leave ones own property with confidence that the overall "goverment" of the faction will protect the ownership and rights of that individuals property in their absence. Which is a real measurable metric in real world government/citizen relationships and is one of the foundational concepts of a Rupublic IRL. I also was referring to the safety one would have during such movement around the factions territory in comparison to the others or in the "wilds"
So, I wasn't using "freedom" as a metric. I was using the relationship and security between the ruling faction and it's denizens to measure the ability to move about the faction territory without fear of loss of property or life.
Regarding Holy Nation citizen happiness:
If you go only by citizenship and not by population then yeah, the holy nation is a dope place to live. But come on, you cannot not address the slavery x) by that metric the American south was the happiest place on earth in the 1860's.
Rebirth Is Actually A POW Reform Camp #kenshi #lore #kenshi2
I found a burned-out shek spaceship and I need to tell someone
@willcal2738 I'm gonna need you to expand on that for me immediately please and thank you lol
@@HeroInHisHead it was in the desert, it was horned and like a namek ship, no way it was human or skele, had to be shek, had horns like shek horns. i dont know where it was right now, somewhere central eastern
I think your vid are great, and you tell stories quite well, but man dont take stuff personally, especially in this comment section. You thought I was tryin diss you, or somethin last year, but nah.
Oh you don't have to worry about that my guy. I don't take anything in my comment sections personally - Everyone is entitled to their own views and I'm down with that. I only put the disclosures in this video because I try to maintain an positive vibe on the channel and in my community, not cause it bothers me personally.
As for me thinking you dissed me, I am sorry if my response came off that way or it seemed like I was bothered. I honestly have never responded to negative comments unless the criticism is valid - for examples check my Kenshi Multiplayer Video or 90% of people who watch my content from Reddit lol.
TLDR: Don't worry my dude, I'm not fragile to my comments, and I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding. We are all good and thanks for the compliment
If you want to dominate Kenshi without much effort, go the Skeleton way. Because they do not need any food, are immune to poisons and acid and can easily replace their limbs which much better ones, it is that stupidly easy to conquer the whole World of Kenshi, it is already boring.
40 minutes of Caesar Legion propaganda
The Key Reason Why The Holy Nation is Different From Ceasers Legion #kenshi #kenshi2 #lore
This video is so not what Kenshi should be about. You're not the first but I seriously think these logical arguments are just so fucking stupid for a game that's supposed to be about how creative you can be as a player. This so called "creative community" unironically excepts the HOLY NATION as it's only possible savior. I don't think I need to say any more then that.