This is part of the manufactures figures, this video and the supplied bike is part of specialized marketing budget, and it isn't an accident. If they gave you these figures directly you wouldn't believe them, so instead they give these guys a discount/loaner bike and you believe the numbers.
@@zachcalton3199 Might want to take off the tinfoil hat, lol. Many other channels have run side-by-sides and come up with similar gains/advantages when comparing different bikes or go-fast-bits.
Agree, real world is what majority of consumers face, not some lab tested data where conditions are perfect or "data" that companies give out towards people who race professionally when most of the buyers are gonna just be amateurs or riding for fun and not competition
The problem with "real world" is that there are too many variables out of your control. For example, a stronger head wind could easily account for that 2 min difference. That is why people do wind tunnels. Manufacturers don't do it for fun, as it costs them lot of money. Not saying there's no value in "real world" tests... for example, faster tire compounds can't be measured in wind tunnel.
@@itsm3th3b33 But the way they did the test took these things into account. If the test were done on the same day around the same time at the same power in a circle, it's to me going to be quite accurate. How often are you riding in wind tunnel conditions in when your outdoors. taking things like side winds into account I think is important. This is just my opinion. I understand where you're coming from.
This channel is growning exponentially. The content, the delivery and the professionality. I love it! Keep up the good work. Thank you for not adding in any pointless lewd jokes, unnecessary swearing, stupid music. Just straight to the point bike facts! Love it!
The avg power on the second test is 3W lower. Assuming the wind be the exact same, this plays a role in the overall time. Also, it is not clear how much is the contribution of tires, vs wheels. It would be great if you can rung the third test, with the SL6, original wheels, and tires+tubes of the SL7. Furthermore, this time try to maintain an avg power of 253W.
SL7 vs Allez Sprint fully mod'd out (carbon wheels, TLE tires etc). The Allez sprint is probably one if the best frames out there, and non carbon and under $1500. I like the test, except one area that is difficult to control is the wind. Still fair play.
That’s a great series! I would love to see the Tarmac S-Works against the Tarmac SL7 Expert or Tarmac SL7 Pro to understand whether or not you’re paying for the S-Works brand. P.S. love the new song you’re using on the intro clips ;)
I can see the S-Works being faster on a wind tunnel or in a pro cycling peloton, but I still have my doubts if it would be faster enough in a real-world test against the Tarmac SL 7 Pro to worth the extra $5100.
@@felipexakal the wind tunnel is the place were its actually not a single watt faster. Its 400 g lighter therefore its slightly faster climbing. Thats it
You should’ve done a test also how many Watts more need to be pushed to be as fast on the cheaper bike as on the more expensive. That would’ve been interesting.
@Morgan But it's not quite that easy because the wattage requirements increase as a curve - it's not linear. As the speed doubles the energy required to go that fast squares. The portion you're dealing with is not a big part of the curve but it's still curved.
Ok this comment is going to be controversial. I know you guys tried to replicate the fit by slamming the stem on the SL6. However, if you compare the head tube lengths of the bikes, the SL7 is 12mm shorter. Although not a big difference, it would allow you to get more aero. From watching a few clips the fit appears very close but not identical. A $50 -17 degree stem should take out at least another 20s given that aero gains would matter over the 30 mins. Given that the rider has a high CDA, I would bet that this small tweak would provide some good results. Would love to see this change in the next video as well if possible, on top of any other changes you may implement. Great content as always, loving the videos!!!
I loved watching both part 1 & 2 of this video. Awesome work! I would have loved to see the time difference between a top end road racing tires and a mid range tire, all other variables constant as much as possible.
That opening music was nice. Great video too, right to the point without a bunch of promotional bs you find on other RUclips videos. Keep up the good work!
Just added some 2019 Zipp 404 firecrests to my 2018 SL6 and there was definitely a huge difference in riding (softer, lighter, more "floaty"). My performance has also increased plus I just feel really confident on the road with a nice looking bike; I feel like a real contender and it shows in my attitude.
What Brian commented is pretty accurate. This is more of a buyers guide for someone that is not a pro cyclist, but has enough experience to know the difference between quality and price.
I'm a proud "hacker" of the Tarmac SL6 platform. My (slightly used) expert model gives me the same tube shapes and aero seatpost as the S-Works (SL6) with a small weight penalty. I repurposed my ENVE 5.6 wheels from my last bike. The only extra purchase was the Aerofly II bar. I would argue it's 99% as fast as the S-Works for less than half the cost (even if you buy new carbon wheels). For me, the whole upgrade was under $3K (1/4 the cost of a new S-Works SL6). I will give props to Specialized - it's a truly amazing frameset.
Great video - only issue is that now the power difference is up to 1.2%, which is a significant difference considering the time delta is only just above 3%. That definitely brings the latter figure down. And with a slightly better (non SWorks) SL6, like the Expert, with a D-shaped seat post and marginally lighter components (ultegra), that difference would drop even more for a quarter of the cost.
and they used two different power meters, which I suppose both have a 1% error margin, + the wind could be slightly different, which would easily add an other 5% (and no a circular track does not negate any wind effect, headwind will always slow you down more than the same tailwind)
Watched the first video a couple days ago and though, man I can’t wait to see what it will be like with the other wheels. And boom! I open my RUclips to see this gem at the top of my feed. Awesome stuff man!
Feel even better now about ordering the Bontrager Aeolus Elite 35 TLR Disc Road Wheels for my alluminium Trek Emonda ALR 5. I've already been riding brilliantly on it this past year but can't wait to see my stats after I throw them on. Plus like you guys said, now I've got training wheels and back ups for commuting. Nobody likes waking up to a flat tire in the morning and having to change it in a rush with the fear of being late for work.
Very helpful, straightforward test and video. Thank you! Your conclusion validates my approach - buying the good-enough new bike for 3 G’s and boosting it significantly with a top notch wheel set. I believe I end up with the best performance I can buy for a total of 5 G’s (and an extra wheel set for the winter).
That definitely closes the gap...especially when you consider the SL6 with the carbon wheels left 3 watts (about 1.2% of total output) on the table. Definitely most riders that aren't looking to race - would be be extremely happy with that setup for less than half the price. A few more weight saving mods and the bike weight could be close to the same and the time gap would close to almost nothing.
Actually, this additional amount of testing is ABSOLUTELY needed for a balanced comparison of what the wheels themselves contribute to the reduction of time over the same course.
Great video but you totally missed a trick not recording a time for the SL7 with the SL6 sport wheels and tires. Would that have been just over a minute faster than the stock SL6?
Love the concept of this video. 5K is still a lot of money tho. I bought a second hand Wilier cento 1 air from 2015 for only €1400. It's retail price was around €6000. It has 50mm wheels and is full carbon, and even has an integrated bar and stem. Yes it's heavy for full carbon ( 8.2 kg ride weight no bottle's) nut lighter than aluminium.
now throw in a s-works venge in there...that would be interesting to add into the mix - SL6 Tarmac with CLX vs S-works SL7 vs Venge - will the SL7 still come out on top?
Money on the Venge, what's a little extra frame weight vs superior aerodynamics (I'm assuming the venge has the advantage here). The irony of Specialized's "No more compromises) ad campaign is that you may be compromising in some scenarios by only having a single bike to choose from.
ruclips.net/video/bnqmgT81u9A/видео.html According to this recent Japanese report, SL7 was faster than Venge & Venge w/aero bar. Anecdotal but very interesting.
I have done almost exactly this - SL6 Tarmac Sport with 60mm Carbon wheels, noticed the difference immediately compared to the stock aluminium DT Swiss.
Me, sitting next to a CAAD12 with upgraded wheels: I feel called out. Mind you I also have a Tarmac SL6 with aero wheels and a sweet aero integrated cockpit. I guess I'll have to use that one to chase Jeff and Chris through the canyons.
These 2 videos are great. In an ideal setting you could repeat this test with a larger sample size of riders over time and thus increasing the P value the of results would of course go up and make the "study" more valid. More riders over time in different conditions like wind speed and weather conditions would really turn this into a serious study on the impact of aero frames and wheel differences on performance. Cheers to an very cool endeavour.
Should have ridden both bikes with just the wheels swapped so that the comparison to the frames could also be made. I was very curious to see if the cheaper tarmac with the upgraded wheels would be faster than the high end frame with the cheaper wheels.
@@ticorsolano 110% agree! Drop the Sworks price tag and model and get the equivalent in the Specialized model. Now, the difference between a $5K SL6 and a $7K SL7 Pro seems like a screaming deal.
Thanks for making this. I certainly wouldn’t spend $10,000 for a 7% improvement. I’m certain I could train a bit harder and get that much. I’d probably lose that extra 1 kg in weight. Sure if you are a world tour rider you need everything you can get but for the rest of us the SL6 looks fine.
EXACTLY. WELL SAID. SAY IT AGAIN 10 TIMES SO THE MANUFACTURERS & MY WALLET CAN HEAR YOU !!! MODESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE.
Pretty strong argument for the caad12 + aero wheels section to be honest. I mean it‘s pretty obvious you won‘t be just as fast as the Sl7 etc. But to be able to throw some good wheels on there and maybe add an aero cockpit and close a lot of the gap is pretty remarkable.
I'd actually like a further followup to these 2 great videos where the bikes are brought to the same weight. An empty bottle versus 1 filled with wet sand would get the 2 weights to the same. This would show whether that extra minute in time difference is from aero or the fact that the dearer bike is about 10% lighter.
And the sequel to the GoT cliff-hanger satisfied audiences world-wide :) Still in love with my Canyon CF SLX 8, which I think would claw-back over half that minute 20 sec gap to the top-end Tarmac
So how much more power would you need to make to close the gap between the SL6 with aero wheels vs the SL7? At what point do tactics and strategy make the difference? If a guy rides an SL7 and blows themselves up on breakaways, a guy on a the "budget" setup and good tactics will beat him. Yes, someone with the absolute best equipment will be able to most efficiently put that power on the road, but there are so many factors at play.
The SL7 had better have won or Specialized would have a lot of questions to answer for, including for pro teams. I'd be curious to see how much slower the SL7 would be if the difference in weight was added to the bike considering all the other factors already tested.
Great video guys! Similarly I’m just looking at two different model years of Giant where the 2021 is “X”% more aero than the previous year. Even by Giant’s own testing that’s 34 seconds over 40km at 200W. Less than a second per KM! There’s only so much a frame can do!
Great video(s). Thinking of the S-Works because if I price it per ride over 10 years, it’s still cheaper than a movie and popcorn for each ride. At 55 it’s probably the last non-ebike I’ll buy, and I want to get some PRs on some hills
What about the aerobars of the SL7? They have about 15 Watts less drag than the standard round roadbars. The SL6 is pretty cheap on the second hand market right now, at around €1600,- with Ultegra. A set of carbon wheels and aero cockpit and it would close the gap even further. Unfortunately the S-Works prices are way beyond the average buyer.
Now, can you do a test were Tarmac SL7 is weighted down to the same as SL6 with Carbon wheels and see how much the difference is? That would let us know what's the actual aerodynamic saving on the frame of super expensive bike versus a regular expensive bike.
Just a suggestion. It would be nice if we compare sl7 sworks vs sl7 low end. Sl7 by design is faster than sl6. Just to get rid of the other bias factor.
Great real world test, guys!... but what about the ride, road feel of each bike? is the SL7 worth an extra $7k? or is an SL6 with roval wheels the best bang for the buck race bike? if you weren't sponsored, which tarmac would you race on? SL6? SL7?? or something in between???
For the real world guy, a test vs the aethos would be awesome. Especially in a course like that (with some climbing into it). At a pace that relates to what I can achieve. I'm actually torn between a sl7 and aethos and a test like that would really, really help me decide.
I think you’re choosing between a Lamborghini and a Ferrari, can’t go wrong. internet wisdom in forums suggests the SL7 is better for racing as it’s aero, stiffer, etc and it’s UCI sanctioned (if you compete in UCI events). I’m not in the market for a road bike, but if I had to choose I would go for the SL7, purely because of looks.
Awesome comparison. One question, on the SL7 frame, where is the additional 1 minute of time saving coming from? Is it purely just from a lighter frame? Could you expand on that?
In addition to cost, would also be great if you focused more on weight. Just from the quick shots of the scales, it seems like the SL6 weighs around 7% more than the SL7. Although GCN and the like love saying aero > weight, I'm sure weight still has a significant effect.
There must be some differences coming from the weight. Even riding on mild rolling terrain with no real long sustained climbs the weight has to factor in just a little bit.
Super interesting, would have been cool to have seen it vs the SL7 with the cutout seat tube and D shaped S-woks seatpost. With the addition of a integrated bar/stem and internal cables makes it a lot closer to the s-works. Would have been interesting what the difference is then.
Video is awesome. But I think you should, at least, make sure that wattage on the chapeast is equal than the expensive one. If it is 1 watt more it should be on the cheapest..
I would venture to say that in most race environments, the difference will be less significant, especially when you put that nice set of wheels on the lesser bike. When you have a pack to ride around with, those aero gains are not nearly as big as when you are out solo, like in this test. Solo breakaways, now thats where the big aero advantage WILL come into play.....so no breakaway riding for you CAAD guys lol
I was about to make a similar comment about racing on road bikes bing mostly done in the draft of other riders. I want to see a test comparing how many watts are required to sit in the draft of someone setting tempo.
But the old supersix (same shape as caad12) was good enough for Bettiol to win the tour of Flanders in a solo breakaway, so I guess its good enough for you and me.
If you look closely at 00:30 you can clearly see why there is a 2min19s difference between the SL6 and the SL7. The SL6 was tested in the small ring while the S-Works was tested in the big ring. Everyone knows the big ring is way faster
This video series gives more consumer advice than the manufacturer's vague statement and figures. Please do keep making this video series!
👍🏻 thanks @brian.
Yeah, now, as a consumer, I know that I need to buy a 12000 dollar bike :-D
@@valelantin1991 LMAO it's still better than being confused about which bike to buy, right? Choosing which bike to buy makes me a headache!
This is part of the manufactures figures, this video and the supplied bike is part of specialized marketing budget, and it isn't an accident. If they gave you these figures directly you wouldn't believe them, so instead they give these guys a discount/loaner bike and you believe the numbers.
@@zachcalton3199 Might want to take off the tinfoil hat, lol. Many other channels have run side-by-sides and come up with similar gains/advantages when comparing different bikes or go-fast-bits.
You just HAVE to do the SL7 with the shallow wheels off the SL6 now to verify!
yesss this
Plot twist!
It would be funny if the difference doesn't add up.
It would be the same time or close to it lol but definitely not worth $12K 😂
It will almost certainly not add up because the experiments are not repeatable and because the frame and wheel interact.
These simple tests + real-talk breakdowns are fantastic. Thank you.
I loved this... real world test... no artsy, carefully constructed language... easy to digest methodology and data... 🏆🍻
Agree, real world is what majority of consumers face, not some lab tested data where conditions are perfect or "data" that companies give out towards people who race professionally when most of the buyers are gonna just be amateurs or riding for fun and not competition
The problem with "real world" is that there are too many variables out of your control. For example, a stronger head wind could easily account for that 2 min difference.
That is why people do wind tunnels. Manufacturers don't do it for fun, as it costs them lot of money.
Not saying there's no value in "real world" tests... for example, faster tire compounds can't be measured in wind tunnel.
@@itsm3th3b33 yes... " a lot of money" ... he price they pay for couple wind tunnel tests are recovered by selling 2 top level bikes at 12k each:)
Unfortunately real world tests are entertaining but worthless..... a small bit of different wind.... and you are off by over 1 minute......
@@itsm3th3b33 But the way they did the test took these things into account. If the test were done on the same day around the same time at the same power in a circle, it's to me going to be quite accurate. How often are you riding in wind tunnel conditions in when your outdoors. taking things like side winds into account I think is important. This is just my opinion. I understand where you're coming from.
This channel is growning exponentially.
The content, the delivery and the professionality. I love it! Keep up the good work.
Thank you for not adding in any pointless lewd jokes, unnecessary swearing, stupid music. Just straight to the point bike facts!
Love it!
This was awesome. Perfect pace, perfect humor, excellent collaboration between you two
The avg power on the second test is 3W lower. Assuming the wind be the exact same, this plays a role in the overall time. Also, it is not clear how much is the contribution of tires, vs wheels. It would be great if you can rung the third test, with the SL6, original wheels, and tires+tubes of the SL7. Furthermore, this time try to maintain an avg power of 253W.
That teal/yellow frame with the deep wheels and the tan tyres combo looks absolutely bonkers.
Is that positive or negative :)?
What about SL6 vs Allez Sprint
Or
SL6 + Rapide vs SL7 Expert
SL7 vs Allez Sprint fully mod'd out (carbon wheels, TLE tires etc). The Allez sprint is probably one if the best frames out there, and non carbon and under $1500. I like the test, except one area that is difficult to control is the wind. Still fair play.
I was just going to suggest the SL7 vs the Allez Sprint too. That should be a fun one.
SL7 disc vs Allez rim brake + wheel upgrade
😉
That mic, outdoors and y'all being seperated, is awesome
That’s a great series!
I would love to see the Tarmac S-Works against the Tarmac SL7 Expert or Tarmac SL7 Pro to understand whether or not you’re paying for the S-Works brand.
P.S. love the new song you’re using on the intro clips ;)
The S-Works will be faster but maybe just 5 seconds or so.
@@raphaeltiziani7476 yes, mostly due to the weight reduction. Aerodynamics should be the same if only the frame is concerned
@@TheBony45 it is the same yes. S works should be stiffer but that matters at this level just in 1000+W sprints.
I can see the S-Works being faster on a wind tunnel or in a pro cycling peloton, but I still have my doubts if it would be faster enough in a real-world test against the Tarmac SL 7 Pro to worth the extra $5100.
@@felipexakal the wind tunnel is the place were its actually not a single watt faster. Its 400 g lighter therefore its slightly faster climbing. Thats it
You should’ve done a test also how many Watts more need to be pushed to be as fast on the cheaper bike as on the more expensive. That would’ve been interesting.
@Morgan quick.mafs
@Morgan bad maths! Power required for a given speed is a function of the cube of the speed (no not squared, that's drag force)
@Morgan lol you've never taken physics
@Morgan But it's not quite that easy because the wattage requirements increase as a curve - it's not linear. As the speed doubles the energy required to go that fast squares. The portion you're dealing with is not a big part of the curve but it's still curved.
@@adamsouthard1155 I'm giving @Morgan a gold star still and the rest of the day off!
lol, I was rewatching one of your vids when you published this one. can't get enough!
👌
Cockpit and tires on the SL6 would probably cut that last minute down even further to under 30 seconds. Really enjoyed this guys! Keep it up!
Ok this comment is going to be controversial. I know you guys tried to replicate the fit by slamming the stem on the SL6. However, if you compare the head tube lengths of the bikes, the SL7 is 12mm shorter. Although not a big difference, it would allow you to get more aero. From watching a few clips the fit appears very close but not identical. A $50 -17 degree stem should take out at least another 20s given that aero gains would matter over the 30 mins. Given that the rider has a high CDA, I would bet that this small tweak would provide some good results. Would love to see this change in the next video as well if possible, on top of any other changes you may implement. Great content as always, loving the videos!!!
I loved watching both part 1 & 2 of this video. Awesome work!
I would have loved to see the time difference between a top end road racing tires and a mid range tire, all other variables constant as much as possible.
That opening music was nice. Great video too, right to the point without a bunch of promotional bs you find on other RUclips videos. Keep up the good work!
Hands down the best cycling channel out there. Keep up the great work!
Just added some 2019 Zipp 404 firecrests to my 2018 SL6 and there was definitely a huge difference in riding (softer, lighter, more "floaty"). My performance has also increased plus I just feel really confident on the road with a nice looking bike; I feel like a real contender and it shows in my attitude.
now we need part3, SL6 with all components from the SL7 ;)
What Brian commented is pretty accurate. This is more of a buyers guide for someone that is not a pro cyclist, but has enough experience to know the difference between quality and price.
I'm a proud "hacker" of the Tarmac SL6 platform. My (slightly used) expert model gives me the same tube shapes and aero seatpost as the S-Works (SL6) with a small weight penalty. I repurposed my ENVE 5.6 wheels from my last bike. The only extra purchase was the Aerofly II bar. I would argue it's 99% as fast as the S-Works for less than half the cost (even if you buy new carbon wheels). For me, the whole upgrade was under $3K (1/4 the cost of a new S-Works SL6). I will give props to Specialized - it's a truly amazing frameset.
Great video - only issue is that now the power difference is up to 1.2%, which is a significant difference considering the time delta is only just above 3%. That definitely brings the latter figure down. And with a slightly better (non SWorks) SL6, like the Expert, with a D-shaped seat post and marginally lighter components (ultegra), that difference would drop even more for a quarter of the cost.
and they used two different power meters, which I suppose both have a 1% error margin, + the wind could be slightly different, which would easily add an other 5% (and no a circular track does not negate any wind effect, headwind will always slow you down more than the same tailwind)
Watched the first video a couple days ago and though, man I can’t wait to see what it will be like with the other wheels. And boom! I open my RUclips to see this gem at the top of my feed. Awesome stuff man!
Feel even better now about ordering the Bontrager Aeolus Elite 35 TLR Disc Road Wheels for my alluminium Trek Emonda ALR 5. I've already been riding brilliantly on it this past year but can't wait to see my stats after I throw them on. Plus like you guys said, now I've got training wheels and back ups for commuting. Nobody likes waking up to a flat tire in the morning and having to change it in a rush with the fear of being late for work.
Pleasant vid dudes ! Learning so much from this channel
Very helpful, straightforward test and video. Thank you!
Your conclusion validates my approach - buying the good-enough new bike for 3 G’s and boosting it significantly with a top notch wheel set. I believe I end up with the best performance I can buy for a total of 5 G’s (and an extra wheel set for the winter).
That definitely closes the gap...especially when you consider the SL6 with the carbon wheels left 3 watts (about 1.2% of total output) on the table. Definitely most riders that aren't looking to race - would be be extremely happy with that setup for less than half the price. A few more weight saving mods and the bike weight could be close to the same and the time gap would close to almost nothing.
Real world testing 👍 Manufacturers won't like it but I suspect SW SL7 vs SW SL6 with same wheels and bars would be very similar.
it would be very interesting to see also how the SL7 with the cheaper wheels perform...
Actually, this additional amount of testing is ABSOLUTELY needed for a balanced comparison of what the wheels themselves contribute to the reduction of time over the same course.
you might be shocked to find the tires and their rolling resistance is to blame for the vast majority of time savings.
Thanks guys for the comparison presentation.👍👍👍
These two test videos were really great, thank you!
absolutely brilliant 2 pt series guys, more of please....................
Great video but you totally missed a trick not recording a time for the SL7 with the SL6 sport wheels and tires. Would that have been just over a minute faster than the stock SL6?
it would be funny if the difference doesn't add up
no. These sponsered videos never do a scientific test, there is always a loophole
Love the concept of this video. 5K is still a lot of money tho. I bought a second hand Wilier cento 1 air from 2015 for only €1400. It's retail price was around €6000. It has 50mm wheels and is full carbon, and even has an integrated bar and stem. Yes it's heavy for full carbon ( 8.2 kg ride weight no bottle's) nut lighter than aluminium.
now throw in a s-works venge in there...that would be interesting to add into the mix - SL6 Tarmac with CLX vs S-works SL7 vs Venge - will the SL7 still come out on top?
Money on the Venge, what's a little extra frame weight vs superior aerodynamics (I'm assuming the venge has the advantage here). The irony of Specialized's "No more compromises) ad campaign is that you may be compromising in some scenarios by only having a single bike to choose from.
I would bet the Venge would be the fastest... but I dont think it would be a big delta. We are considering doing a run versus the Shiv TT.
@@ChrisRiekert99 Definitely interested in a test versus the Shiv TT! from my experience on a TT bike to Road bike, the delta is enormous
@@ChrisRiekert99 Would be a good test, love to see the Shiv take a role in this test too. I have a SL7 Pro so loving this test by the way
ruclips.net/video/bnqmgT81u9A/видео.html According to this recent Japanese report, SL7 was faster than Venge & Venge w/aero bar. Anecdotal but very interesting.
I have done almost exactly this - SL6 Tarmac Sport with 60mm Carbon wheels, noticed the difference immediately compared to the stock aluminium DT Swiss.
Gents, PLEASE try SL6 with a 1-pièce Cockpit.
I love this test!❤❤❤it’s how I recommend wheel upgrades, & bikes.
These SL6 with carbon wheels and gumwall tires looks wonderful! :OOO
great second episode. huge thx! ^_^ love your content!
Me, sitting next to a CAAD12 with upgraded wheels: I feel called out.
Mind you I also have a Tarmac SL6 with aero wheels and a sweet aero integrated cockpit. I guess I'll have to use that one to chase Jeff and Chris through the canyons.
CAAD squad represent! Haha too guilty here.
Loved this series would love to see some more comparisons and impacts of upgrades like this mixed in. Thanks!
Great video. Content and editing. Love the channel. And to the point.
These 2 videos are great. In an ideal setting you could repeat this test with a larger sample size of riders over time and thus increasing the P value the of results would of course go up and make the "study" more valid. More riders over time in different conditions like wind speed and weather conditions would really turn this into a serious study on the impact of aero frames and wheel differences on performance. Cheers to an very cool endeavour.
Great video as always - would be great to see the S-Works SL7 vs the SL7 Pro - extremely close to the S-Works i'd imagine...
I made that video, check out the channel
Good job guys, these videos were great. I think a part 3 is in order if you can borrow an SL7 Pro from the shop. It's in the middle price/spec wise.
These two videos were excellent. Really well done.
Love the video, made for the viewers, straight to the point and no timefiller to make the video longer for RUclipsadds!
Totally unrelated, but has anyone ever told you that you look like Edward Snowden?
Truth
@@jimmynickelz next thing you know he is living in Russia, doing talks …after cycling industry whistle blowing… lol
@@LazyGrayF0x "Let me explain something to you people about rim brakes!!🤣🤣" from Russia
Amazing video series and discussion. Such an awesome real world test.
Should have ridden both bikes with just the wheels swapped so that the comparison to the frames could also be made. I was very curious to see if the cheaper tarmac with the upgraded wheels would be faster than the high end frame with the cheaper wheels.
Would be great to see a comparison of the SL7 Pro vs S-Works SL7
Completely agree, for me that is a test that really applies for avid cyclists. Must of us wont pay $12k but will be willing to pay $7.2k
@@ticorsolano 110% agree! Drop the Sworks price tag and model and get the equivalent in the Specialized model. Now, the difference between a $5K SL6 and a $7K SL7 Pro seems like a screaming deal.
i got sworks sl7 and sl7pro.. both sram red etap and sram force with power meter... i will test..
great video series...helps me understand how much i should drop for my next big purchase.
Love your videos. Informative and straight to the point! Thanks a lot!
Love your channel. You inspired me to start my own. Wish I did it years ago. Thanks bro!!
First
Best channel keep it up man
Thanks!
@@NorCalCycling np you deserve much more
Nice production quality. Thanks for the cool video.
Position clothing wheels and BB are most important upgrades.
Thanks for making this. I certainly wouldn’t spend $10,000 for a 7% improvement. I’m certain I could train a bit harder and get that much. I’d probably lose that extra 1 kg in weight. Sure if you are a world tour rider you need everything you can get but for the rest of us the SL6 looks fine.
EXACTLY. WELL SAID. SAY IT AGAIN 10 TIMES SO THE MANUFACTURERS & MY WALLET CAN HEAR YOU !!! MODESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT YOU DO HAVE.
I’d love to see this same comparison with the SL 7 pro vs the S Works SL 7.
few seconds... not really the difference worth the money
Very good wrap up and interesting results!
Pretty strong argument for the caad12 + aero wheels section to be honest. I mean it‘s pretty obvious you won‘t be just as fast as the Sl7 etc. But to be able to throw some good wheels on there and maybe add an aero cockpit and close a lot of the gap is pretty remarkable.
I'd actually like a further followup to these 2 great videos where the bikes are brought to the same weight. An empty bottle versus 1 filled with wet sand would get the 2 weights to the same. This would show whether that extra minute in time difference is from aero or the fact that the dearer bike is about 10% lighter.
So, what is the major contributor to the difference, after the wheels change? The weight?
Excellent review breaking down the cost vs performance!
And the sequel to the GoT cliff-hanger satisfied audiences world-wide :) Still in love with my Canyon CF SLX 8, which I think would claw-back over half that minute 20 sec gap to the top-end Tarmac
Now wondering what you need to upgrade the SL6(+Rapide) with to match the SL7's time.
Keep doing! This series is soooo good.
Love this series! Budget builds for us common folk!
So how much more power would you need to make to close the gap between the SL6 with aero wheels vs the SL7? At what point do tactics and strategy make the difference? If a guy rides an SL7 and blows themselves up on breakaways, a guy on a the "budget" setup and good tactics will beat him. Yes, someone with the absolute best equipment will be able to most efficiently put that power on the road, but there are so many factors at play.
How about exact same components, but different frame? That’s a test I would like to see.
The SL7 had better have won or Specialized would have a lot of questions to answer for, including for pro teams. I'd be curious to see how much slower the SL7 would be if the difference in weight was added to the bike considering all the other factors already tested.
I think People are not only Buying Carbon Wheels for wheight and stuff butt also for the looks!
Great video guys! Similarly I’m just looking at two different model years of Giant where the 2021 is “X”% more aero than the previous year. Even by Giant’s own testing that’s 34 seconds over 40km at 200W. Less than a second per KM!
There’s only so much a frame can do!
This test also defies what even Specialized says. I wouldn't read into it because this is crazy wrong.
Great video(s). Thinking of the S-Works because if I price it per ride over 10 years, it’s still cheaper than a movie and popcorn for each ride. At 55 it’s probably the last non-ebike I’ll buy, and I want to get some PRs on some hills
Would love to see more of these tests and comparisons!!
What about the aerobars of the SL7? They have about 15 Watts less drag than the standard round roadbars. The SL6 is pretty cheap on the second hand market right now, at around €1600,- with Ultegra. A set of carbon wheels and aero cockpit and it would close the gap even further. Unfortunately the S-Works prices are way beyond the average buyer.
Thank you for doing this comparison!
Now, can you do a test were Tarmac SL7 is weighted down to the same as SL6 with Carbon wheels and see how much the difference is? That would let us know what's the actual aerodynamic saving on the frame of super expensive bike versus a regular expensive bike.
Yes! Since the 20km loop had some climbing in it, weight diff surely had a part to play. I hope they take your suggestion
Weight differences can quite easily be calculated, you dont REALLY need to test it
Just a suggestion. It would be nice if we compare sl7 sworks vs sl7 low end. Sl7 by design is faster than sl6. Just to get rid of the other bias factor.
Best comparison video ever
Love the test. I have the SL6 Expert and love it.
Great real world test, guys!... but what about the ride, road feel of each bike?
is the SL7 worth an extra $7k? or is an SL6 with roval wheels the best bang for the buck race bike?
if you weren't sponsored, which tarmac would you race on? SL6? SL7?? or something in between???
This is a fantastic series
Put an Aerofly 2 bar on the SL6 and bang it’s on par with SL7 performance.
I’m maybe wrong but the footage with the deeper wheels on the SL6 don’t look like the SL7’s rapides, it rather more like a set of CL50/CLX50?
Such an awesome, simple video.
Would be interested to see the speed been used as the datum and worked back to see what extra watts would be used.
250 watts
@@mitchellsteindler no travel at a given speed and she what watts are required to do so. Not riding to a given wattage
@@jamessheard5498 ah, got it. I had trouble deciphering your initial comment. My bad.
For the real world guy, a test vs the aethos would be awesome. Especially in a course like that (with some climbing into it). At a pace that relates to what I can achieve. I'm actually torn between a sl7 and aethos and a test like that would really, really help me decide.
I think you’re choosing between a Lamborghini and a Ferrari, can’t go wrong. internet wisdom in forums suggests the SL7 is better for racing as it’s aero, stiffer, etc and it’s UCI sanctioned (if you compete in UCI events). I’m not in the market for a road bike, but if I had to choose I would go for the SL7, purely because of looks.
Awesome comparison. One question, on the SL7 frame, where is the additional 1 minute of time saving coming from? Is it purely just from a lighter frame? Could you expand on that?
Good question! @ 5:22 weight difference ~two pounds. If weight added to lighter bike so both equal how would that impact time difference?
In addition to cost, would also be great if you focused more on weight. Just from the quick shots of the scales, it seems like the SL6 weighs around 7% more than the SL7. Although GCN and the like love saying aero > weight, I'm sure weight still has a significant effect.
There must be some differences coming from the weight. Even riding on mild rolling terrain with no real long sustained climbs the weight has to factor in just a little bit.
I made a video specifically about weight, check out my channel
Have to say that sl6 has a gorgeous paintjob
How much of the improvement is the $100 tires vs the $2500 wheels? Cheap bikes come with really poor tires
so basically in 2020, a decent racing bike cost about $5000
Or 2k
Super interesting, would have been cool to have seen it vs the SL7 with the cutout seat tube and D shaped S-woks seatpost. With the addition of a integrated bar/stem and internal cables makes it a lot closer to the s-works. Would have been interesting what the difference is then.
Video is awesome. But I think you should, at least, make sure that wattage on the chapeast is equal than the expensive one. If it is 1 watt more it should be on the cheapest..
Nice video man. Greetings from Italy
I would venture to say that in most race environments, the difference will be less significant, especially when you put that nice set of wheels on the lesser bike. When you have a pack to ride around with, those aero gains are not nearly as big as when you are out solo, like in this test.
Solo breakaways, now thats where the big aero advantage WILL come into play.....so no breakaway riding for you CAAD guys lol
I was about to make a similar comment about racing on road bikes bing mostly done in the draft of other riders. I want to see a test comparing how many watts are required to sit in the draft of someone setting tempo.
But the old supersix (same shape as caad12) was good enough for Bettiol to win the tour of Flanders in a solo breakaway, so I guess its good enough for you and me.
If you look closely at 00:30 you can clearly see why there is a 2min19s difference between the SL6 and the SL7. The SL6 was tested in the small ring while the S-Works was tested in the big ring. Everyone knows the big ring is way faster
I’m curious for new sworks sl7 vs comparable in top end spec bike from 2013-2016 before discs, aero, and proprietary parts were the norm