I'd expand that to anyone that isn't interested in racing. Very little support and encouragement. The bike industry is a snake eating it's tail. Instead of market growth it is more interested in selling more expensive products to the same customers.
I think they are seeing a customer getting a cheap bike as a "failure to upsell", when in reality, a lot of them might get a more expensive one in the future. Especially college students who will hopefully earn more money in the future.
I’ve had the exact opposite experience. Bought my first boutique bike, but found out that my miscalculations meant that I was short of cash (couldn’t transfer my old fork over as the new frame needed a tapered steerer). The owner just gave me the fork I needed and built the bike with nothing more than a verbal promise that I would pay him. It’s been 20 years, and I still visit his shop regularly to spend thousands on stuff that I don’t need, but want. The son runs the shop now, and like his dad, he values the customer more over just selling stuff. Dude is usually more than happy to just have regulars come over to chat even when no cash exchanges are made .
There's an almost cult-like obsession with adding electronics, batteries, Blue-tooth capability, phone connectivity, and complexity to bicycles. I just don't understand it. Manufacturers seem to be fighting for the Porsche/Ferrari equivalent market with their bikes and groupsets. If you don't want to, or can't spend $1,700 on a groupset or $5500+ on a bike, many bike shops basically don't want you in the store. I do think there are some bright spots. I see the Microshift Advent X/Sword groupsets as something that may influence the market. There are a lot of us who just don't want to deal with electronics, firmware/software updates, batteries and hydraulic brakes on a bicycle. A pro I watch on RUclips ran a 10/52 (?) cassette and a 40T, 1x chainring on his Leadville or Unbound bike. Why does the bike industry supply average people with 40T chainrings and 11-42 cassettes on sub-$2,000 or $3000 bikes when a pro has easier gearing? This makes no sense. Sword is very close! If a groupset manufacturer offered us an 11-51, 11-speed, 1x drop bar option, in both cable/cable and cable/hydro configuration, would sales of the expensive, electronic 12-speed groupset sales decline? I honestly don't think so. The people who buy electronic groupsets are not going to care. Proof: A 9-speed triple honestly has a total range few modern groupsets can match. I'm putting a 10-speed Topstone together with GRX 400 derailleurs, GRX 46/30 crank, 11-36 cassette and Tiagra cable/cable shifters with Shimano BR-RS305 brakes and compressionless housing. I'm waiting on the back-ordered crank. I will have to try some hacks I've seen on your channel and others. I may try to push the cassette out to an 11-40 or 11-42 in the future.
i was a runner and had an amazing local shop experience. when i got into cycling i went to a local bike shop expecting the same level of welcomness. in college, my experience buying my specialized allez aluminum for $600 was hostility and coldness. i touched the gears and the shop kid working there told me i was hurting the bike and gave no reason or context. a week later when i got a flat i took it into the same shop. was talked down to and told to learn how to fix my own flat. saddest $15 i ever spent. its a real shame thats the culture im now part of a cycling club which hosts women only beginner rides that are no-drop. plenty of breaks, no bike requirements (must have drop bars and clipless etc), provided snacks, and smiling members. its great to see, even as a now well-experienced high end super light skinsuit wearing racing cyclist
Specialized Allez is a really solid bike choice for a great price, I would have had more respect for that. You can win a Cat 1 or a Cat 2 race on that thing.
Now teaching at a bike riding school for teaching people how to ride a bike, and our advice sheet for buying a bike contains a lot of "don't let the bike store talk you into ________" on about 3 different topics. Thank you for talking about this. And considering how often bikes are stolen, we need shops to lean more into selling just everyday, quality but not fancy bikes that won't break the bank if stolen - and maybe won't look as appealing to steal, either.
Part of a bike group in my town. There’s well advertised rides that go at easy pace around town. There’s also a volunteer group that repairs old donated bikes so more people can get started on the cheap.
Hey! I really liked this video and you nailed it. Recently, I was at one of our more popular mtb destinations, "The Big Tree", I was there alone enjoying the solitude, listening to woodpeckers, etc. but wishing I had a cup of coffee. So I organized/hosted a "Coffee at the Big Tree" event last Saturday (near the equinox). Me and a friend carried two gallons of water, a canister camping stove, a percolator, cookies, scones, etc. and waited for people to show up. People did, even people, though not beginners, people I've never ridden with before. People were happy. Now, to get the beginners out there. It is an intermediate level ride, mainly because it is about 6 miles from the trailhead. Looking at Campfire Cycling's website, a bikepacking shop in Tucson, sponsors "Breakfast by Bike" rides that look like family-friendly social rides from city park to city park then pancakes and coffee are served. Thinking of hosting something similar. I prefer riding alone, but all about getting more people on bicycles.
I’ve been a bike commuter for many years. Never once have I felt welcome in a bike shop. My bike is not nice enough for them to pay me any regard. Thanks for your insight
Would you mind moving your comment further down the page ....we are expecting one of the Pro Trek riders any minute. ( If I see you out there riding I'm going to send a huge wave your way....Bike commuters are fantastic people! )
The irony is, even if your bike is SUPER nice, they’ll usually see it as “too good of a bike” for you and all of us ignorant peasants that aren’t their little echo-chamber clique. They can have the $250 spandex and $450 3D printed saddles. I just wanna ride.
This certainly is true in so many spots, and I'm glad that you took the time to share this! My small shop is geared towards trying to get everyone riding.We do offer a woman's dirt ride, but would like to expand that more next season. Another area is children, sadly I've realized that 80% or higher of our young folks do not ride a bike and do not how to ride...how sad is that? Anyway, that's my next goal is to try and get more youngsters riding, that also means that in order to make that happen... I have to get more adults riding again. So, thanks again, for sharing and reminding all of us how we can make our small portion of the world a bit better.
I had such bad experiences as a beginner biker this summer. I bought a RadRover and every shop I went to wouldn't even look at my bike and treated me with contempt. I never ended up finding a bike shop. I've been servicing my bike all summer from people like you on RUclips. 😮💨
The first bike I bought myself was a black Retrospec single speed that came in a box from Amazon, and I remember more passionate bikers saying it wasn't a good brand later on. But it's what I could afford at the time, and it turns out that ten years later it still rides great! We need more beginner options 🤘🏻
As a straight-up commuting biker, I have had far better experiences at Dick's Sporting Goods than the LBS I tried. I think primarily DSG is more accustomed to working with the casual rider and not the next Tour de France winner wanna-be. Nor does DSG have really high-end bikes. I think their most expensive traditional bicycle(not e-bike) is under $2000. Still expensive, but not compared to the $14k road bike at my LBS. I love to commute via bike whenever I can and encourage others to do the same. Very liberating.
Great video! , there’s a great mellow Wednesday night , after work ride here in Colorado Springs, also my buddy Chris at good grief and I started a overnight ride several years ago to encourage folks to try bikepacking, it’s a bit of a climb but we have the expectations set as no drop and help those who haven’t pedaled much or camped to have a positive experience or at least a memorable one, I’ve tried to make myself available to help commute with people to help them find safer routes and show them how realistic it can be . Even if it might mean a muti mode commute…
We are working with our local bike shop to start a “Cafe Ride” geared towards a slower more social pace on bike paths to start and see how it evolves from there. There are plenty of faster rides, but very little in respect to community rides at the lower pace. The local bike shop is working with us to utilize what they have in place (waivers, marketing, social media, etc) to get the word out. I am excited to see that you brought this topic out in the forefront, thank you!!
So true! Bring back keep bikes simple, ditch the bike clothes (normal just fine), clip in pedals ( I went back to simple in 2010), make bicycles simple and comfy again(ergo Surly, steel), comfy); don't need electronic shifters, fancy nonsense
So right again. I used to show a Hardtail Mountain Bike first and almost immediately there friends would say that they needed a full suspension MTB. I said ok, but that full suspension MTB costs more for service and would weigh more than a recently priced entry-level HT MTB. Also starting with a HT can teach one how to write better From learning to let the bike roll over the bumps etc. Despite having train and Serviced shocks and forks from the earliest suspension forks back in 1989, I now only Mountain Bike on a single speed fully rigid 29+ MTB and enjoy its simplicity and purity . Too many shop employees talk about the latest things. Are there be all in have to have but the general public just want to go riding.
We need the manufacturers to really pay attention to the lessons learned by the Buffalo Bike. Especially for beginners. Something reliable and affordable is what is needed.
This video is right on target. I've been riding for a long time, and I ride a lot. But my riding is for transportation or for a social (not fast) weekend ride along a rail trail. But I feel invisible in most LBSs.
I am a 67 year old senior who bikes 30 miles daily. I have been hit 2 times by distracted drivers was not injuired but both times over $200 damage to my bike. safety is the biggest issue among my friends they do have bikes but dont ride because of the safety issues.
Same here. In a suburb of Atlanta and while I ride all over the place on the streets and sidewalks, others seem quite afraid of the traffic. I make myself as visible as possible and ride respectfully around cars. Something could happen but so far so good.
Went on a no drop shop ride last week. Was all super fast guys and within 10 minutes was dropped and never saw anyone again. No one said hi… super sad, won’t be going back.
Thank you so much for putting this out there. I've been doing this grind for over 35 years now, and just very disappointed in our industry that they left behind the new customers who want to start their journey in cycling. I have my own garage shop now and am doing the work of giving that warm hug that they are not getting in the local shops. I'm trying to get people in cycling one customer/new cycling family member to our community at a time. Thanks again for sharing these insights! I'll share this with my channel and other socials to get this message out.
@@BikeShopGirl I'm in Loveland, CO. Angela at Bingham Cyclery turned me on to your podcast back in the day. At the time, I was at Retail Tool Kit. I currently have a garage shop refurbishing bikes for people just starting their cycling adventure and doing services. And, of course, my RUclips channel is growing and building that community. My parents and I had a shop in the 90's in Parker and I miss those days of ma and pa stores. There is definitely something missing in the current market and that does need to change.
everything with bike shops is absurd. it's like the car industry ONLY selling V8 1,200HP cars with Italian leather seating and unicorn horn details. Most people want a simple bike that looks cool. They like retro bikes that look like what you see in movies that take place along the Mediterranean. Basically all the shops sell is super sport bikes that very few people want, and the ones who do aren't first time riders. i feel like the people in charge of these companies are just hardcore riders trying to one up other brands. you want to get people biking? sell single speed beach cruisers in flat areas. sell 5 speed rim brake bikes in fun colours in hillier areas. make the bikes look cool and functional with baskets. don't have walls and walls of lycra and helmets that make it feel like it's some hardcore dangerous sport. it just needs to feel like a casual lifestyle thing that helps you get around in a nice way.
There is a distinction between urban utility bicyclists who bike for transportation and recreational cyclists who bike for fitness and fun. They are different mindsets and that is why many bike shops struggle with figuring out if they are fish or foul.
Preach on, Ma’am. I now buy expensive bikes and do my own swanky builds. But in 2012, I bought a hybrid. If my LBS had not taken the time to sell me that bike - which I long ago converted into a drop bar gravel-like bike for riding on rainy days - I would not have spent THOUSANDS of more dollars on better stuff. I fail to understand the mindset. The cheap bikes should be near the entrance. The dentists, doctors, and lawyers all know the shop has expensive stuff. But a new rider may not know that the shop - let’s use Trek as an example - has a nice selection of FX hybrids. Let’s be real just for a moment… it may not be cool, but Alivio works well. Very well, actually. I ride nice stuff. But we have to remember that ANY bike is a good time.
Somehow while I wanted to disagree, my own experience completely mirrors yours 😂 Tried to build my first boutique bike ( a pivot ) and realised that my old fork couldn’t be transferred over. The owner just built the bike and gave me the fork I needed on nothing more than trust. Been 20 years since, and I still regularly visit his shop (now run by the son) to throw money at them for swanky new parts just because it’s simply fun buying new bikes and parts. If his dad back then had just rejected me, I probably wouldn’t be biking as enthusiastically as I am today
Funny that you mention TREK. IMO there are of the big culprits for the status quo of the bike industry. They want to sell their mediocre products no matter what. I allow myself the comments being a TREK owner over the years. Never again.
The issue is that beginners will look traditionally at four methods to buy their bikes: 1/ Secondhand through Facebook marketplace and other online platforms 2/ New from Walmart or similar department store spec bike 3/ New value for money direct to consumer online only brand 4/ New entry to mid spec bike from a local bike shop They will also commonly make mistakes such as, choosing incorect type of bike for intended use, not understanding which frame geometry is suited to their riding needs and incorrect frame size, underestimate price points of quality components, apparel and accessories. So by the time they go to the local bike store which in most cases be the most costly option. Trying to buy a entry level bike (lowest margin selling bike on the shop floor), which also takes up the most effort to sell to a complete novice. I can understand why some bike shops are less than enthusiastic in helping beginners. The current cost of living crisis, glut in bike inventory lingering from Covid over production, lack of affordably priced entry level bikes from big brands will help clear out the operatiors which have been run poorly. Entry level bikes are similar in business model to for entry-level cars. They are the least profitable sku in the manufacturers portfolio. Hence if you notice carefully, most large car manufacturers have removed a lot of new entry-level cars from their offerings. It's more profitable to sell up speced midrange and high-level skus. It's that profits take priority over catering and becoming more customer centric to develop the entry-level segment. Its a sad state direction the industry has moved to. It's general pricing model has made cycling less accessible, less affordable more complex, more overwhelming to understand terminology, etc, to make a decision to buy a bicycle. These are my thoughts and observations when buying a few new bikes recently. I was fortunate to have a very good and helpful bike shop walk me through the mindfield of information, honest in disclosing what items were not needed, not pushing upsells to make me comfortable. Old school honest customer service. Not even touching on some of the elitist, gate keeping attitudes in the cycling sub culture from enthusiasts.
Our local recreational cycling club offers newbie classes that are well received. We encourage beginners & include tips on safety & rules of the road. Participants often mention the unfriendly & intimidating experience of visiting a bike shop. Your points are well taken.
You are so spot on. Even for me, the overly excited biker (commuter/mtb’er)of my group, I am turned off by many of the bike shops and their general lack of even the most basic customer service or support after the sale.
When I was new I went to the local bike shop to buy a helmet. I asked if any helmets are better than others and the guy behind the counter grunted and stared at his phone. Not the best customer service experience. Later I realized they were the only bike shop in town so maybe they felt like they didn't have to try to make sales. It's so strange that this kind of experience is so common.
I grew up riding bikes before competitive cycling (50s), and it was about kids having fun or using a bike for travel and errands. That's been my philosophy ever since. The few contacts I've had with competitive cyclists have been neutral or unpleasant. The words "arrogant" and "snobbish" come to mind. I go to the local bike shops that are welcoming.
Fortunate enough that the local bike nonprofit is also the local bike shop here - and pretty much caters to beginners with their selection. They can get some of the higher end stuff ordered for those that need or want it, but what's on the floor is a decent selection of used bikes mostly priced from $200-400, a few new options in the 600-1200 range, and a selection of entry level e-bikes. They fix just about anything that comes through the door, even when the other shops say it's unfixable, and if you can't afford a bike, they'll manage to cobble one together from donations. Perhaps the for-profit shops have a little to learn from the bike nonprofits....
I’m in the Los Angeles area and I do think this is a widespread problem across the city. There are a few shops that I’ve seen cater to clients of every kind and make an effort to introduce riders. Mostly though, they seem to look down on the entry level, they just think they won’t come in for anything expensive, at most buying tubes and a new seat. I’m a bunch of different group rides all over LA and I also think these mostly cater to experienced riders, most don’t have a truly beginner ride or really make an effort to welcome new people. I’m actually currently working on starting up a non profit bike co-op to specifically address this void, I want to create a community hub and space to help out everyone, especially new or inexperienced cyclists.
@@BikeShopGirl Not yet, I’m currently trying to meet with as many city orgs as I can (such as LA Metro) to see funding options. Depending on which area/district is interested in helping, we’ll be looking for a space there.
This is more of a North American issue, although I suspect it’s a differences between use scenarios. Is the bike used for mobility or for recreation? The later is the main focus of the industry. It reminds me of the car industry which had a saying of win races on Sunday, sell cars (high end sports models) on monday. BTW, the automobile industry see s the bike mobility market as an important competitor. It’s in their interest to prevent bike mobility infrastructure being built in cities. Anything that can replace a car, is a threat. So, the bike industry keeps focusing on recreational cyclists until proper mobility infrastructure is available. The old chicken or egg issue. The bike industry will change once urban areas build decent and safe bike infrastructure. BTW I m in Montreal, a city which has decent bike infrastructure in densely populated areas. This has lead to an important increase in using bikes for mobility, even in winter.
As having ridden bicycles beginning at the age of two, then retaking interest in it in High School. and later continuing to develop more in my own interests in reference to creativity, a lot of the bicycles that are manufactured and sold on the market are an INC (incomplete). A lot of them are not about utility and a lot of them LACK in their development in order to have the bike rider have the basic necessary frame needs to be a utility type of bike or a bike that will allow the bike rider to use it for 2/3 purposes. I have my own designs (which I am not willing to share because of not only knowing that the wealthy steal everyone's concepts/creative ideas), but also the fact that the wealthy class folk get all the recognition while the inventor receives none.
Bicycle culture is like every other technological/gear driven hobby that is dominated by men. As a woman who is a musician and technology consultant, as well as a former bike shop mechanic, I have seen these dynamics play out over and over again all through my now middle-aged life in a wide range of fields of interest. To put it shortly, cycling, like all these other fields, has a severe problem with snobbery and toxic masculinity. There is a focus on competition, domination, and having the latest, greatest, most expensive bike to beat all the other kids, when what the majority of people actually need and want out of a bicycle is affordable, reliable, *repairable*, comfortable transportation, load carrying, commuting, recreation, and fitness. Unfortunately, the bicycle industry regards the vast majority of its customers as being unworthy of reasonable quality levels at a reasonable price. Quality levels that were regarded as lower midrange 25 years ago are now the domain of luxury products. An entry-level adult bicycle now lists for $600-700 USD from the major brands like Specialized and Trek, just to pick two I've ridden in my life, and the price just keeps going up while the quality keeps going down.
The skiing comparison is interesting. Along with book clubs. It’s true that there’s so much welcoming energy to form community rather than the hostility that comes with bikes :/
The hostility that comes is primarily from the ROADIES. There's a large section of that particular biking community that views everyone else on a bike and even anyone in their own particular fraternity who doesn't meet their own exacting standards for purity and performance as beneath contempt. Although they are very very good at showing contempt. And the bike industry LOVES them because they spend more and upgrade more than anyone else.
I am lucky I live in a town with an active cycling club and LBS that support the clubs. Beginner training and bike repair classes. 3 group rides a day. A store needs a bike club to do activities A work with the city to develop a safe environment.
My LBS stocks low end a high end only, the bike I wanted was an aluminium mechanical 105 bike. My LBS only sells 105 with carbon and aluminum with Sora. I asked about aluminum with 105 and they tried to bullied me into buying something they had in stock! So I bought a Canyon Endurace aluminum 105 for less than their aluminum Sora bike! I have always maintained my bikes myself so this works for me! Can only imagine how a newbie gets treated because of the ego of a crappie LBS! I really want to support local business and always have where I could, unfortunately my LBS is garbage!
It's so different here, because most selling bike are for kids or recretional (under $700), and high end store are usually for elitist or at least experienced customer. Most of shopkeeper are very kind and helpful because their backbone are cheap bike for masses.
My local bike shop is very welcoming. It has a mutually supportive relationship with area bicycle clubs. That said, effective beginner recruitment has depended on individual initiative of either shop employees or club members. As people get more fit they become more interested in lighter and faster and forget the beginners. I've witnessed this in two clubs. Riding slower is an advanced cycling skill few ever learn.
Bike shops and brands are like fine dining-enthusiast passion projects and not necessarily effective businesses. You only have to look at kids bikes to know that they have no idea what they are doing.
Probably because the industry is geared towards athletes and not regular people. Look at the bicycle industry perspectives on E-Bikes. User brutal vs DTC and mobile bicycle service.
Great video. I feel hated because I just want to commute around town. I did the long rides, but do not have the time to do a 30 plus ride. Takes me away from my family and other hobbies. bike are so expensive, so I buy online and not super happy with the quality. I am use to my racing bike. I ride an electric bike now and love it. I use a lower level to get that work out I want, but get home wearing my work clothes and ready to start dinner. lol I love your video and watch your cargo bike channel also. I want a cargo bike so bad, but $5000 for a low end one is to much and as I learned the cheap bikes just cost me more to keep tuned and working. :( I hope to get a better bike next summer. Keep riding it good for you and the planet we leave our children.
If you only really NEED the capacity of a full cargo bike once or twice a week I've been using trailers for several years now and they are a great option. I have a large sized dog trailer which is fully enclosed and nothing will fall out. Perfect for large shopping trips. And I have a large cargo trailer which I can fold the front and back sections down to carry much bigger and bulkier loads. I've had over 70 kg loads behind me on an ordinary hybrid bicycle without much difficulty. Hook one on and I've got more capacity than most cargo bikes. Hook it off and I've got my all round hybrid commuter back again. Although it's always covered in racks and bags. I'm always prepared to carry more than I intended. You can't beat an actual purpose built cargo bike but for most people although I am speaking from my own personal experience only, a €150 or less trailer turns a €600 bicycle into a €6,000 cargo bike and a real world practical alternative to a car.
This is totally normal because it’s easier to compete for market share than do the work of increasing the market size. One reason general aviation has failed to ever quite recover from its destruction around 1980 is that the manufacturers abandoned the flight schools who had previously been plane dealers. Cutting them out of the sales revenue simply meant less money was going into schools wanting to attract and train pilots who were likely to buy new planes. Many companies make virtually the same mistake by constantly trying to grow business within the same customer base rather than win over their competitors accounts because they either pay the same commissions for both types of sale, or they otherwise fail to properly reward and retain sales reps who do that activity. I worked for a company that actually treated the sales reps responsible for new business like they were lesser level employees.
When I started riding a bike, I had so many questions and fear. I didn’t learn to bike when I was little so I was scared to get out of my house with my bike and fall down in the street. I was afraid of having a flat tire on my first ride to work. I didn’t know what purchase was absolutely necessary to start. Chain lube? What is that? How often do I have to use it? Ouch that saddle hurts my butt, is that normal? How can I fix that? Will the bike people at the bike shop help if I’m not here to buy? Who can I ask? How do I cross that busy street to get to the nearest bike infrastructure without dying?
Agreed. It’s very anxiety-inducing and there are new questions popping up regularly when you’re a beginner. Sometimes it makes you feel like your bike isn’t even your friend when you get two flats in a week or something like that.
it's definitely an issue in lots of the UK. London might be better since the mini bike boom came along, but the UK as a whole is still doing poorly. Evan's cycles and Halfords took insane beatings these last few years, and a couple huge distributors went under recently.
I think that once these bike shops are flushed from our society, there will be opportunities for small repair shops to emerge. No, on second thought, that won't happen because of the cost of doing business and the enormous cost of buying all of those special tools. Nope, it's over, people would rather eat than ride. But I ride a singlespeed Wabi and have the basic tools to take care of it. I have been cycling since 1972 and miss the real bike shops.
I've heard bike shop staff (and one famous cycling RUclipsr which I will not name) say that hybrids are "starter bikes" and that you'll upgrade after figuring out which riding style you like. That's kind of true. I've worked my way from a hybrid with front shocks to something that I've heard described as a road bike with flat bars. But I've stuck with hybrid bikes for the past 15 years. They are more comfortable and more affordable than mountain or road or gravel bikes. And they are practical for riding around town for either commuting, sightseeing or fitness rides. Also for a short person, they are definitely more accessible than road or gravel bikes (I'm referring to top tube crotch clearance or "standover height"). Side note - I'm also pretty miffed that some bike brands, including Trek, seem to slowly be doing away with (or at least severely limiting) step-through or mid step frames.
You are so right. Why don't people like you have shops? I assume it is something like the car manufactures not wanting to make small hatchbacks and preferring 80k trucks.
A lot of opportunity is squandered as you rightly observe, although any discussion on this topic is incomplete without mentioning big box store “bike-like objects” and their exploitative nature: the false expectations they elicit as well as their hidden costs. I also think newbie cyclists are uniquely vulnerable due to how much proper fit requires close attention to each rider’s unique physique, I would say to a greater extent than either running or skiing. Each new bike is potentially both a life-changer and the last bike they will ever buy.
It's certainly true that too many bike shops are exactly as you describe. It's also true that local bike clubs can and often do fill the "help get riders started" void. I live in the Seattle area and the Cascade Bike Club is an excellent resource for beginner instruction on riding, maintenance, and they offer regular free group rides for many experience and skill levels in addition to their sponsored large event rides.
My local bike shop is extremely unfriendly. It makes me question how they stay open. The next closest one is more than 30km away and are not much better.
I went into a bike shop today to inquire if they had a certain tire in stock and the guy asked me why I wanted that tire and told me the size I requested wouldn’t fit my bike and wanted to find me something else. I told him that size absolutely fits my bike because it’s what came on it stock from Trek. Then he handed me off to a kid because he had to take a call out in his car. Terrible customer service and lack of knowledge everywhere I go. I’m learning to fix my own bikes and fed up with bike shops.
wow you have good points.. I hope some bike shop owners can get wind of this vid and give it a watch. we have a couple great shops where I live, luckily.. but there are others around that could learn a lot from your thoughts.
Absolutely agree. We love our our LBS' but none are geared toward the beginner. TG our area Sun & Ski has a selection of "basic" bikes. Good ones vs the chain store ones. $250 to $400 range. Especially for the littles.
I feel a combo pkg of bike, lock, and helmet should be, and can be, included in the sales price. Maybe a winter pkg of gloves, (relatively) cheap lights, and beanie cover. I DO remember my first disappointing experience in a bike shop; I walked into a shop with a flat tire. The counter person said, 'well, we're really jammed up right now. It should be ready in two weeks.' Myself, being an aircraft mechanic, knew that was a BS answer. Though I had tools for an airplane, I had no biking tools (or knowledge). I replied 'This is a 20 minute job. I'll be back for it this afternoon.'. That was College St Bicycles in New Haven, CT. Fleecing the students who can be fleeced. Bill O'
I get the sense.. a lot of the staff at bike shops don’t like the industry way.. with bikes becoming more expensive. They look like they are sour that customers are paying so much for bikes..
Retail bicycle outlets need to do more to encourage young people and older adults to ride bicycles. Sponsoring bike trains to escort children on their rides to school would be a great start. Organizing volunteers, teachers and other to ride along would be a great start. Getting children out of minivans and onto bicycles would be healthy exercise, build independence and make society healthier. Fun ride should also be organized. Getting a local bike club or school to sponsor an annual event to a local park or trail would encourage both adults and children to ride bicycles. Getting local elected officials to help with sponsored activities would help to educate them about the need for safe, protected bike lanes and trails in their community. Offering space and coffee for local riders to meet up would also improve store traffic.
My ex and our 4 kids got me a Huffy from Walmart of all places this last Father’s Day. I’ve put a little over 100 miles on it with my latest ride being a 22 mile ride that killed me lol. My opinion is it doesn’t take a lot of money to get into it, but to take it to that next level if that’s what you want it definitely does
Today I'm moving the second Park stand to a new attic spot where all labor for repairs is going to be free. Bikes are so much fun, search around for the warm and welcoming bike shops....they still exist. ( They may be hard to find....so bring a Suggestion Box and leave it on the counter....just in case )
I'm not knowledgeable about this and I'm basing this solely on my surface level understanding but I think more than running or ski/boarding, the bike industry feels closer to golf in several regards, including the barrier to entry and lack of support and encouragement. On a more positive note, I'm fortunate to have several non-profits, active bike advocacy group, and multiple bike co-ops in my area. Bike shops are mostly duds in regards to the video's topic, but one of them is regularly running workshops geared towards beginners new to the sport (basics like tires/flat, gear and brake adjustment, basic maintenance, etc.).
E-bikes are the new hybrid. That’s how you get people in the door and on the path. I bought my first ebike 4 years ago and today I stripped an old Centurion LeMans to prep it for paint. Be kind to the newbies because they will be the experts soon enough.
A couple of questions - what's going on with the bike shop you started in 2018? Are the profit margins in running and skiing comparable with the (mostly) pathetic margins bike shops get, especially on the bikes you say they ignore so much? My take on too many bike shops is the balance between passion and business sense is rarely....well...balanced. It's either "We don't give a s__t, we just want your $ and will sell you anything!" greedy biz types or enthusiasts into the newest-latest who don't give a s__t about anyone not interested in the same, with no real business sense. Whatever happened to the NBDA? They used to be on this subject regularly.
OMG. I have SOOOOO many things to say about this as a lifelong mtb'er, bike park instructor, ex-racer, volunteer group ride leader, educator, customer, and woman. Where to f'ing start.
I think there is also a division between casual bike users that will use a bike when it is convenient and typically are only interested in safety, security and easy of use. Not sure they are actually interested in bikes as a hobby/activity at all and would not have any intertest in bike culture or things like meetups or group rides. Probably not returning to the bike shop unless something breaks. Then there is the group that might be interested in biking as an activity or hobby, if they are welcomed at the beginning they may end up buying accessories or upgrading in the future. I imagine that it is difficult to tell which group a customer is in, so in my view you should treat everyone like they are in the second group
Hear me out. RUclips is stalking me I didn't even search this and this video popped up in my feed. I'm 44 years old 5'11" 200lbs. I haven't rode a bike since high school. I've been riding motorcycles since I was 12 but I want to get a decent mountain bike to go camping/light off-roading. I don't really want to spend more than 500.00 what are some good beginner options or should I just go to Academy and get a bike there. I just don't know what to look for. My local shop Sun Country said I need to think about spending 900 + farkles. It seems steep for a beginner.
I’m wondering what causes the mindset that something as complex as a bicycle should cost ~$700, when the same people will blow tons of money on frivolity with zero long term value (e.g., restaurant food). I think beginners wildly misunderstand what a good bicycle SHOULD cost compared to other things in life. Why have we just accepted the bike industry line that everything HAS to be made in Asia? They do it because they make maximum money that way, not because it’s good for the sport or the people who buy their products.
I am just getting back on a bike after two years off due to having my shoulder repaired. I was looking for a bike with an upright position. i picked up an older good quality mouintain bike almost free.. It is bare basic, no suspenshion, quil hadlbar stem and cantilever brakes non indexed gears. I fixed it up for about $200. It is so empowering to not be keeping up with the Jones. I am having a great time exploring local trail where i coldn't ride my road bike.
I've been that friend that has helped other people buy their first bike in a long time. I've taken and offered to take these people on rides. I've shown them different trails on maps that are close to their homes so it's easy. I do think though that people either want to ride or not. Lot of people think it's a great idea but don't follow through with all the help you give them. Could that be the majority of these hybrid buyers? Kind of like people with New year's resolution gym memberships
I hope by the end of this year, specialize and cervello will sell even their high-end bikes at around $1,000-$2,000. We just need to stop buying these brands even for 2 months so that by december, that s-worx bike that cost $12,000 will go on sale at $2,000. That will happen if we want to because bikes are just simple piece of engineering
The irony is, even if your bike is SUPER nice, they’ll usually see it as “too good of a bike” for you and all of us ignorant peasants that aren’t their little echo-chamber clique. They can have the $250 spandex and $450 3D printed saddles. I just wanna ride.
I suspect that has happened everywhere that subsidised tax incentive bike purchase schemes have been introduced. You're going to get money back through your employer so we can charge you more for your new bike. It's insidious. Actually I'm in Ireland too and the bike to work scheme is voluntary for employers. I approached my own employer before I ordered my first e-bike. He said he'd have to look into the scheme because I was the first to ask. About four months later he came back to me and said if he gave it to me, he'd have to do it for everyone else too so I couldn't get it. I just bought the bike anyway for full price. 🤷♂️
I bought a gazelle that wasn't right for me. I was told I had a 30 day money back guarantee if for any reason I didn't like the bike. I returned it after 6 days. Got a little bit of static from the owner which I didn't appreciate but am upgrading to the bike that's more of what I need. Still, the negativity of the whole experience has tainted what should have been a happy experience. Anyway, can you talk about or recommend good quality , comfortable seats for women? thanks.
I'm a betginner myself. The only cycling space i feel welcome in is RUclips. I've literally gotten 25 seconds in and i'm commenting. What does that say about the cyclng industry's Give-a-shit aboutbeginners?
Ok I'm 60 and from what I can tell, my perspective on this is that the lack of bits for pointing someone in the right direction is simply a matter of the assumed idea of enthusiasm for (possibly latent) riding, and that therefore a guy or a girl just goes out and does it naturally on their own without direction. It's expected to be that way. Combined with of course the assumption that everyone had a kid's perspective on cycling that leads into whatever happens with cycling at 30,40,50 whatever. I think that the idea is that no one is therefore an actual beginner. Who hasn't had a bike and ridden a bike regularly when they were ten. eleven, etc.? Not the same with skiing or running normally. It's a built in interest that comes back and out. I suppose the other angle is more a matter of selling big ticket items, like $4000 carbon frame bikes of whatever kind that most of us do not really need, as opposed to a very decent $700 gravel alloy hybrid, or a $500 city steel hybrid with V-brakes, which are good for a lot of value and use.
Often , often it's because the people working there are young racers-want to be who think too much of themeselves. They may be good racers but that does not make them knowledgeable about bikes or good sales representatives... Definitely my own experience.
The fact that at some point just about every kid in the US owns/rides a bike seems like the perfect environment for a business to flourish. The cost of admission is buying the bike and helmet and the rest is free....how can you screw that up?
It seems most production bikes are designed for high-end sports, not for everyday riders. You don't see that in the car industry where it is accepted people use them for transport.
We have park run in Australia that's really good for running. I noticed someone attempting to create a park ride - it's a brilliant idea, especially involving kids. p.s. I like the look of your shop with kid's section. Getting kids to ride is important. My local bike shop had one little kid's bicycle that wasn't cheap - cost of an adult hybrid.
One more point re: group rides. I don't think I've ever seen a 'kids' ride. Bike 'buses' - yes, but how about a 3 mile ride to the local park or pond, chaperoned by experienced cyclists?
I'd expand that to anyone that isn't interested in racing. Very little support and encouragement. The bike industry is a snake eating it's tail. Instead of market growth it is more interested in selling more expensive products to the same customers.
Russ, please do an interview with @E-bikeguy!
That's is what I'm seeing here in Loveland, CO. USA
I think they are seeing a customer getting a cheap bike as a "failure to upsell", when in reality, a lot of them might get a more expensive one in the future. Especially college students who will hopefully earn more money in the future.
I’ve had the exact opposite experience.
Bought my first boutique bike, but found out that my miscalculations meant that I was short of cash (couldn’t transfer my old fork over as the new frame needed a tapered steerer). The owner just gave me the fork I needed and built the bike with nothing more than a verbal promise that I would pay him.
It’s been 20 years, and I still visit his shop regularly to spend thousands on stuff that I don’t need, but want. The son runs the shop now, and like his dad, he values the customer more over just selling stuff. Dude is usually more than happy to just have regulars come over to chat even when no cash exchanges are made
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There's an almost cult-like obsession with adding electronics, batteries, Blue-tooth capability, phone connectivity, and complexity to bicycles. I just don't understand it. Manufacturers seem to be fighting for the Porsche/Ferrari equivalent market with their bikes and groupsets. If you don't want to, or can't spend $1,700 on a groupset or $5500+ on a bike, many bike shops basically don't want you in the store. I do think there are some bright spots. I see the Microshift Advent X/Sword groupsets as something that may influence the market. There are a lot of us who just don't want to deal with electronics, firmware/software updates, batteries and hydraulic brakes on a bicycle. A pro I watch on RUclips ran a 10/52 (?) cassette and a 40T, 1x chainring on his Leadville or Unbound bike. Why does the bike industry supply average people with 40T chainrings and 11-42 cassettes on sub-$2,000 or $3000 bikes when a pro has easier gearing? This makes no sense. Sword is very close!
If a groupset manufacturer offered us an 11-51, 11-speed, 1x drop bar option, in both cable/cable and cable/hydro configuration, would sales of the expensive, electronic 12-speed groupset sales decline? I honestly don't think so. The people who buy electronic groupsets are not going to care. Proof: A 9-speed triple honestly has a total range few modern groupsets can match. I'm putting a 10-speed Topstone together with GRX 400 derailleurs, GRX 46/30 crank, 11-36 cassette and Tiagra cable/cable shifters with Shimano BR-RS305 brakes and compressionless housing. I'm waiting on the back-ordered crank. I will have to try some hacks I've seen on your channel and others. I may try to push the cassette out to an 11-40 or 11-42 in the future.
i was a runner and had an amazing local shop experience. when i got into cycling i went to a local bike shop expecting the same level of welcomness. in college, my experience buying my specialized allez aluminum for $600 was hostility and coldness. i touched the gears and the shop kid working there told me i was hurting the bike and gave no reason or context. a week later when i got a flat i took it into the same shop. was talked down to and told to learn how to fix my own flat. saddest $15 i ever spent. its a real shame thats the culture
im now part of a cycling club which hosts women only beginner rides that are no-drop. plenty of breaks, no bike requirements (must have drop bars and clipless etc), provided snacks, and smiling members. its great to see, even as a now well-experienced high end super light skinsuit wearing racing cyclist
Yeah I was runner before I got a bike too and it’s such a huge difference in culture. So glad you found a cool community!
Specialized Allez is a really solid bike choice for a great price, I would have had more respect for that. You can win a Cat 1 or a Cat 2 race on that thing.
Different country, perhaps. Where I live, bike shop generally more helping than running shoe store.
Had the exact same experience, whereas all the non biking people tell me I spent too much.
Unfortunately no such clubs in the vicinity.. :(
Now teaching at a bike riding school for teaching people how to ride a bike, and our advice sheet for buying a bike contains a lot of "don't let the bike store talk you into ________" on about 3 different topics. Thank you for talking about this. And considering how often bikes are stolen, we need shops to lean more into selling just everyday, quality but not fancy bikes that won't break the bank if stolen - and maybe won't look as appealing to steal, either.
Part of a bike group in my town. There’s well advertised rides that go at easy pace around town. There’s also a volunteer group that repairs old donated bikes so more people can get started on the cheap.
Hey! I really liked this video and you nailed it. Recently, I was at one of our more popular mtb destinations, "The Big Tree", I was there alone enjoying the solitude, listening to woodpeckers, etc. but wishing I had a cup of coffee. So I organized/hosted a "Coffee at the Big Tree" event last Saturday (near the equinox). Me and a friend carried two gallons of water, a canister camping stove, a percolator, cookies, scones, etc. and waited for people to show up. People did, even people, though not beginners, people I've never ridden with before. People were happy. Now, to get the beginners out there. It is an intermediate level ride, mainly because it is about 6 miles from the trailhead. Looking at Campfire Cycling's website, a bikepacking shop in Tucson, sponsors "Breakfast by Bike" rides that look like family-friendly social rides from city park to city park then pancakes and coffee are served. Thinking of hosting something similar. I prefer riding alone, but all about getting more people on bicycles.
I’ve been a bike commuter for many years. Never once have I felt welcome in a bike shop. My bike is not nice enough for them to pay me any regard. Thanks for your insight
I have only top end bikes and even after many thousands of $ spent in the industry I still get treated like a nobody, like, bad...😖
Would you mind moving your comment further down the page ....we are expecting one of the Pro Trek riders any minute.
( If I see you out there riding I'm going to send a huge wave your way....Bike commuters are fantastic people! )
The irony is, even if your bike is SUPER nice, they’ll usually see it as “too good of a bike” for you and all of us ignorant peasants that aren’t their little echo-chamber clique. They can have the $250 spandex and $450 3D printed saddles. I just wanna ride.
This certainly is true in so many spots, and I'm glad that you took the time to share this! My small shop is geared towards trying to get everyone riding.We do offer a woman's dirt ride, but would like to expand that more next season. Another area is children, sadly I've realized that 80% or higher of our young folks do not ride a bike and do not how to ride...how sad is that? Anyway, that's my next goal is to try and get more youngsters riding, that also means that in order to make that happen... I have to get more adults riding again. So, thanks again, for sharing and reminding all of us how we can make our small portion of the world a bit better.
I had such bad experiences as a beginner biker this summer. I bought a RadRover and every shop I went to wouldn't even look at my bike and treated me with contempt. I never ended up finding a bike shop. I've been servicing my bike all summer from people like you on RUclips. 😮💨
It's better this way. I learned everything and wheel building just to not deal with nonsense at the bike shop.
Where did you buy the bike? A lot of shop’s don’t work on e bike unless they sell them. It’s an insurance thing
@@edwiser People who work at bike shops are just losers 9 times out of 10.
@@凸Bebo凸 It’s not always the case. But if you had that view of the world. I would stay away from bike shops.
@@edwiser Spoken like a true bike shop loser. Hit your nic pod and go get back on that siezed BB, why are you wasting time on here?
The first bike I bought myself was a black Retrospec single speed that came in a box from Amazon, and I remember more passionate bikers saying it wasn't a good brand later on. But it's what I could afford at the time, and it turns out that ten years later it still rides great! We need more beginner options 🤘🏻
That’s awesome to hear!
As a straight-up commuting biker, I have had far better experiences at Dick's Sporting Goods than the LBS I tried. I think primarily DSG is more accustomed to working with the casual rider and not the next Tour de France winner wanna-be. Nor does DSG have really high-end bikes. I think their most expensive traditional bicycle(not e-bike) is under $2000. Still expensive, but not compared to the $14k road bike at my LBS. I love to commute via bike whenever I can and encourage others to do the same. Very liberating.
I've been cycling for 50 years and almost never go into a bike shop. Even before the Internet, many of us used bike Nashbar to order bike products.
Good message for the industry. Good luck to anyone just looking for a good commute around town bike.
Great video! , there’s a great mellow Wednesday night , after work ride here in Colorado Springs, also my buddy Chris at good grief and I started a overnight ride several years ago to encourage folks to try bikepacking, it’s a bit of a climb but we have the expectations set as no drop and help those who haven’t pedaled much or camped to have a positive experience or at least a memorable one, I’ve tried to make myself available to help commute with people to help them find safer routes and show them how realistic it can be . Even if it might mean a muti mode commute…
We are working with our local bike shop to start a “Cafe Ride” geared towards a slower more social pace on bike paths to start and see how it evolves from there. There are plenty of faster rides, but very little in respect to community rides at the lower pace. The local bike shop is working with us to utilize what they have in place (waivers, marketing, social media, etc) to get the word out. I am excited to see that you brought this topic out in the forefront, thank you!!
So true! Bring back keep bikes simple, ditch the bike clothes (normal just fine), clip in pedals ( I went back to simple in 2010), make bicycles simple and comfy again(ergo Surly, steel), comfy); don't need electronic shifters, fancy nonsense
So right again.
I used to show a Hardtail Mountain Bike first and almost immediately there friends would say that they needed a full suspension MTB.
I said ok, but that full suspension MTB costs more for service and would weigh more than a recently priced entry-level HT MTB.
Also starting with a HT can teach one how to write better From learning to let the bike roll over the bumps etc.
Despite having train and Serviced shocks and forks from the earliest suspension forks back in 1989, I now only Mountain Bike on a single speed fully rigid 29+ MTB and enjoy its simplicity and purity .
Too many shop employees talk about the latest things. Are there be all in have to have but the general public just want to go riding.
We need the manufacturers to really pay attention to the lessons learned by the Buffalo Bike. Especially for beginners. Something reliable and affordable is what is needed.
This video is right on target. I've been riding for a long time, and I ride a lot. But my riding is for transportation or for a social (not fast) weekend ride along a rail trail. But I feel invisible in most LBSs.
Great video , I will not go to a bike shop anymore, unfriendly and rude , kinda like when skiers hated snowboarding wanted them ban from ski hills .
I am a 67 year old senior who bikes 30 miles daily. I have been hit 2 times by distracted drivers was not injuired but both times over $200 damage to my bike. safety is the biggest issue among my friends they do have bikes but dont ride because of the safety issues.
Same here. In a suburb of Atlanta and while I ride all over the place on the streets and sidewalks, others seem quite afraid of the traffic. I make myself as visible as possible and ride respectfully around cars. Something could happen but so far so good.
Went on a no drop shop ride last week. Was all super fast guys and within 10 minutes was dropped and never saw anyone again. No one said hi… super sad, won’t be going back.
Thank you so much for putting this out there. I've been doing this grind for over 35 years now, and just very disappointed in our industry that they left behind the new customers who want to start their journey in cycling. I have my own garage shop now and am doing the work of giving that warm hug that they are not getting in the local shops. I'm trying to get people in cycling one customer/new cycling family member to our community at a time. Thanks again for sharing these insights! I'll share this with my channel and other socials to get this message out.
Thanks so much! Where are you based?
@@BikeShopGirl I'm in Loveland, CO. Angela at Bingham Cyclery turned me on to your podcast back in the day. At the time, I was at Retail Tool Kit. I currently have a garage shop refurbishing bikes for people just starting their cycling adventure and doing services. And, of course, my RUclips channel is growing and building that community. My parents and I had a shop in the 90's in Parker and I miss those days of ma and pa stores. There is definitely something missing in the current market and that does need to change.
Always a clarity and proposal for all to benefit. Thank you.
everything with bike shops is absurd. it's like the car industry ONLY selling V8 1,200HP cars with Italian leather seating and unicorn horn details. Most people want a simple bike that looks cool. They like retro bikes that look like what you see in movies that take place along the Mediterranean. Basically all the shops sell is super sport bikes that very few people want, and the ones who do aren't first time riders. i feel like the people in charge of these companies are just hardcore riders trying to one up other brands.
you want to get people biking? sell single speed beach cruisers in flat areas. sell 5 speed rim brake bikes in fun colours in hillier areas. make the bikes look cool and functional with baskets. don't have walls and walls of lycra and helmets that make it feel like it's some hardcore dangerous sport. it just needs to feel like a casual lifestyle thing that helps you get around in a nice way.
There is a distinction between urban utility bicyclists who bike for transportation and recreational cyclists who bike for fitness and fun. They are different mindsets and that is why many bike shops struggle with figuring out if they are fish or foul.
You're killing it with the content lately, spot on!
Preach on, Ma’am. I now buy expensive bikes and do my own swanky builds. But in 2012, I bought a hybrid. If my LBS had not taken the time to sell me that bike - which I long ago converted into a drop bar gravel-like bike for riding on rainy days - I would not have spent THOUSANDS of more dollars on better stuff.
I fail to understand the mindset. The cheap bikes should be near the entrance. The dentists, doctors, and lawyers all know the shop has expensive stuff. But a new rider may not know that the shop - let’s use Trek as an example - has a nice selection of FX hybrids. Let’s be real just for a moment… it may not be cool, but Alivio works well. Very well, actually.
I ride nice stuff. But we have to remember that ANY bike is a good time.
Somehow while I wanted to disagree, my own experience completely mirrors yours 😂
Tried to build my first boutique bike ( a pivot ) and realised that my old fork couldn’t be transferred over. The owner just built the bike and gave me the fork I needed on nothing more than trust.
Been 20 years since, and I still regularly visit his shop (now run by the son) to throw money at them for swanky new parts just because it’s simply fun buying new bikes and parts. If his dad back then had just rejected me, I probably wouldn’t be biking as enthusiastically as I am today
@@slowcyclist4324 You know, this is not just a bike-centric question. Treat people with respect. It’s the right thing to do AND it’s good business.
Funny that you mention TREK. IMO there are of the big culprits for the status quo of the bike industry. They want to sell their mediocre products no matter what. I allow myself the comments being a TREK owner over the years. Never again.
The issue is that beginners will look traditionally at four methods to buy their bikes:
1/ Secondhand through Facebook marketplace and other online platforms
2/ New from Walmart or similar department store spec bike
3/ New value for money direct to consumer online only brand
4/ New entry to mid spec bike from a local bike shop
They will also commonly make mistakes such as, choosing incorect type of bike for intended use, not understanding which frame geometry is suited to their riding needs and incorrect frame size, underestimate price points of quality components, apparel and accessories.
So by the time they go to the local bike store which in most cases be the most costly option. Trying to buy a entry level bike (lowest margin selling bike on the shop floor), which also takes up the most effort to sell to a complete novice. I can understand why some bike shops are less than enthusiastic in helping beginners.
The current cost of living crisis, glut in bike inventory lingering from Covid over production, lack of affordably priced entry level bikes from big brands will help clear out the operatiors which have been run poorly.
Entry level bikes are similar in business model to for entry-level cars. They are the least profitable sku in the manufacturers portfolio. Hence if you notice carefully, most large car manufacturers have removed a lot of new entry-level cars from their offerings. It's more profitable to sell up speced midrange and high-level skus. It's that profits take priority over catering and becoming more customer centric to develop the entry-level segment.
Its a sad state direction the industry has moved to. It's general pricing model has made cycling less accessible, less affordable more complex, more overwhelming to understand terminology, etc, to make a decision to buy a bicycle.
These are my thoughts and observations when buying a few new bikes recently. I was fortunate to have a very good and helpful bike shop walk me through the mindfield of information, honest in disclosing what items were not needed, not pushing upsells to make me comfortable. Old school honest customer service.
Not even touching on some of the elitist, gate keeping attitudes in the cycling sub culture from enthusiasts.
Arliegh, this video is sooooo on point. Thank God for your channel! Cheers.
Our local recreational cycling club offers newbie classes that are well received. We encourage beginners & include tips on safety & rules of the road. Participants often mention the unfriendly & intimidating experience of visiting a bike shop. Your points are well taken.
You are so spot on. Even for me, the overly excited biker (commuter/mtb’er)of my group, I am turned off by many of the bike shops and their general lack of even the most basic customer service or support after the sale.
So frustrating. Where are you based?
@@BikeShopGirl Phoenix/Tempe
When I was new I went to the local bike shop to buy a helmet. I asked if any helmets are better than others and the guy behind the counter grunted and stared at his phone. Not the best customer service experience. Later I realized they were the only bike shop in town so maybe they felt like they didn't have to try to make sales. It's so strange that this kind of experience is so common.
Agreed.
All helmets comply to the same safety standards so to answer your question, the more expensive helmet is the better looking one.
I grew up riding bikes before competitive cycling (50s), and it was about kids having fun or using a bike for travel and errands. That's been my philosophy ever since.
The few contacts I've had with competitive cyclists have been neutral or unpleasant. The words "arrogant" and "snobbish" come to mind.
I go to the local bike shops that are welcoming.
Fortunate enough that the local bike nonprofit is also the local bike shop here - and pretty much caters to beginners with their selection. They can get some of the higher end stuff ordered for those that need or want it, but what's on the floor is a decent selection of used bikes mostly priced from $200-400, a few new options in the 600-1200 range, and a selection of entry level e-bikes.
They fix just about anything that comes through the door, even when the other shops say it's unfixable, and if you can't afford a bike, they'll manage to cobble one together from donations.
Perhaps the for-profit shops have a little to learn from the bike nonprofits....
I’m in the Los Angeles area and I do think this is a widespread problem across the city. There are a few shops that I’ve seen cater to clients of every kind and make an effort to introduce riders. Mostly though, they seem to look down on the entry level, they just think they won’t come in for anything expensive, at most buying tubes and a new seat.
I’m a bunch of different group rides all over LA and I also think these mostly cater to experienced riders, most don’t have a truly beginner ride or really make an effort to welcome new people.
I’m actually currently working on starting up a non profit bike co-op to specifically address this void, I want to create a community hub and space to help out everyone, especially new or inexperienced cyclists.
amazing! Have you found a location?!
@@BikeShopGirl Not yet, I’m currently trying to meet with as many city orgs as I can (such as LA Metro) to see funding options. Depending on which area/district is interested in helping, we’ll be looking for a space there.
This is more of a North American issue, although I suspect it’s a differences between use scenarios. Is the bike used for mobility or for recreation? The later is the main focus of the industry. It reminds me of the car industry which had a saying of win races on Sunday, sell cars (high end sports models) on monday. BTW, the automobile industry see s the bike mobility market as an important competitor. It’s in their interest to prevent bike mobility infrastructure being built in cities. Anything that can replace a car, is a threat. So, the bike industry keeps focusing on recreational cyclists until proper mobility infrastructure is available. The old chicken or egg issue. The bike industry will change once urban areas build decent and safe bike infrastructure. BTW I m in Montreal, a city which has decent bike infrastructure in densely populated areas. This has lead to an important increase in using bikes for mobility, even in winter.
As having ridden bicycles beginning at the age of two, then retaking interest in it in High School. and later continuing to develop more in my own interests in reference to creativity, a lot of the bicycles that are manufactured and sold on the market are an INC (incomplete). A lot of them are not about utility and a lot of them LACK in their development in order to have the bike rider have the basic necessary frame needs to be a utility type of bike or a bike that will allow the bike rider to use it for 2/3 purposes. I have my own designs (which I am not willing to share because of not only knowing that the wealthy steal everyone's concepts/creative ideas), but also the fact that the wealthy class folk get all the recognition while the inventor receives none.
i agree. I am a new rider and I figured most things out by seeking out info like from here.
Bicycle culture is like every other technological/gear driven hobby that is dominated by men. As a woman who is a musician and technology consultant, as well as a former bike shop mechanic, I have seen these dynamics play out over and over again all through my now middle-aged life in a wide range of fields of interest. To put it shortly, cycling, like all these other fields, has a severe problem with snobbery and toxic masculinity. There is a focus on competition, domination, and having the latest, greatest, most expensive bike to beat all the other kids, when what the majority of people actually need and want out of a bicycle is affordable, reliable, *repairable*, comfortable transportation, load carrying, commuting, recreation, and fitness. Unfortunately, the bicycle industry regards the vast majority of its customers as being unworthy of reasonable quality levels at a reasonable price. Quality levels that were regarded as lower midrange 25 years ago are now the domain of luxury products. An entry-level adult bicycle now lists for $600-700 USD from the major brands like Specialized and Trek, just to pick two I've ridden in my life, and the price just keeps going up while the quality keeps going down.
In all seriousness, if you want to do the public a good service, then you should get involved in the used bicycle sector, not the new bicycle sector.
The skiing comparison is interesting. Along with book clubs. It’s true that there’s so much welcoming energy to form community rather than the hostility that comes with bikes :/
The hostility that comes is primarily from the ROADIES.
There's a large section of that particular biking community that views everyone else on a bike and even anyone in their own particular fraternity who doesn't meet their own exacting standards for purity and performance as beneath contempt.
Although they are very very good at showing contempt.
And the bike industry LOVES them because they spend more and upgrade more than anyone else.
I would love to see a podcast with you and Andy, from the Bikefarmer channel. Please, consider it!!
I am lucky I live in a town with an active cycling club and LBS that support the clubs. Beginner training and bike repair classes. 3 group rides a day. A store needs a bike club to do activities A work with the city to develop a safe environment.
When watching your videos when you had your shop, I remember thinking why isn’t there a shop like this in my town?
In my small town on one of the greatest Rail-to-Trails 10 miles south of Trek HQ, with my mostly service and (
Good to hear from you! You are one of the only reasons I want to visit WI soon
@@BikeShopGirl wow! Give me a heads up!
My LBS stocks low end a high end only, the bike I wanted was an aluminium mechanical 105 bike. My LBS only sells 105 with carbon and aluminum with Sora. I asked about aluminum with 105 and they tried to bullied me into buying something they had in stock! So I bought a Canyon Endurace aluminum 105 for less than their aluminum Sora bike! I have always maintained my bikes myself so this works for me! Can only imagine how a newbie gets treated because of the ego of a crappie LBS! I really want to support local business and always have where I could, unfortunately my LBS is garbage!
It's so different here, because most selling bike are for kids or recretional (under $700), and high end store are usually for elitist or at least experienced customer.
Most of shopkeeper are very kind and helpful because their backbone are cheap bike for masses.
My local bike shop is very welcoming. It has a mutually supportive relationship with area bicycle clubs. That said, effective beginner recruitment has depended on individual initiative of either shop employees or club members. As people get more fit they become more interested in lighter and faster and forget the beginners. I've witnessed this in two clubs. Riding slower is an advanced cycling skill few ever learn.
Bike shops and brands are like fine dining-enthusiast passion projects and not necessarily effective businesses. You only have to look at kids bikes to know that they have no idea what they are doing.
Probably because the industry is geared towards athletes and not regular people. Look at the bicycle industry perspectives on E-Bikes. User brutal vs DTC and mobile bicycle service.
Great video. I feel hated because I just want to commute around town. I did the long rides, but do not have the time to do a 30 plus ride. Takes me away from my family and other hobbies. bike are so expensive, so I buy online and not super happy with the quality. I am use to my racing bike. I ride an electric bike now and love it. I use a lower level to get that work out I want, but get home wearing my work clothes and ready to start dinner. lol I love your video and watch your cargo bike channel also. I want a cargo bike so bad, but $5000 for a low end one is to much and as I learned the cheap bikes just cost me more to keep tuned and working. :( I hope to get a better bike next summer. Keep riding it good for you and the planet we leave our children.
If you only really NEED the capacity of a full cargo bike once or twice a week I've been using trailers for several years now and they are a great option. I have a large sized dog trailer which is fully enclosed and nothing will fall out. Perfect for large shopping trips.
And I have a large cargo trailer which I can fold the front and back sections down to carry much bigger and bulkier loads.
I've had over 70 kg loads behind me on an ordinary hybrid bicycle without much difficulty.
Hook one on and I've got more capacity than most cargo bikes.
Hook it off and I've got my all round hybrid commuter back again. Although it's always covered in racks and bags. I'm always prepared to carry more than I intended.
You can't beat an actual purpose built cargo bike but for most people although I am speaking from my own personal experience only, a €150 or less trailer turns a €600 bicycle into a €6,000 cargo bike and a real world practical alternative to a car.
This is totally normal because it’s easier to compete for market share than do the work of increasing the market size. One reason general aviation has failed to ever quite recover from its destruction around 1980 is that the manufacturers abandoned the flight schools who had previously been plane dealers. Cutting them out of the sales revenue simply meant less money was going into schools wanting to attract and train pilots who were likely to buy new planes.
Many companies make virtually the same mistake by constantly trying to grow business within the same customer base rather than win over their competitors accounts because they either pay the same commissions for both types of sale, or they otherwise fail to properly reward and retain sales reps who do that activity. I worked for a company that actually treated the sales reps responsible for new business like they were lesser level employees.
When I started riding a bike, I had so many questions and fear. I didn’t learn to bike when I was little so I was scared to get out of my house with my bike and fall down in the street. I was afraid of having a flat tire on my first ride to work. I didn’t know what purchase was absolutely necessary to start. Chain lube? What is that? How often do I have to use it? Ouch that saddle hurts my butt, is that normal? How can I fix that? Will the bike people at the bike shop help if I’m not here to buy? Who can I ask? How do I cross that busy street to get to the nearest bike infrastructure without dying?
Agreed. It’s very anxiety-inducing and there are new questions popping up regularly when you’re a beginner. Sometimes it makes you feel like your bike isn’t even your friend when you get two flats in a week or something like that.
Not a problem here in Copenhagen. Or London for that matter. US-specific issue perhaps?
I don't think you meant for this to be a total dunk on the US, but it *is,* and it's HILARIOUS. Thank you, sir. 🤣
Where even medicine is a business what do we expect?
it's definitely an issue in lots of the UK. London might be better since the mini bike boom came along, but the UK as a whole is still doing poorly. Evan's cycles and Halfords took insane beatings these last few years, and a couple huge distributors went under recently.
Yes in the US we absolutely have some terrible tribalism. If you want to see some of our stupidity, look at the Android vs. Apple issue.
@@jaydub308i enjoy getting into the battle by showing up with custom bikes outfitted with rim brakes.
I think that once these bike shops are flushed from our society, there will be opportunities for small repair shops to emerge. No, on second thought, that won't happen because of the cost of doing business and the enormous cost of buying all of those special tools.
Nope, it's over, people would rather eat than ride.
But I ride a singlespeed Wabi and have the basic tools to take care of it. I have been cycling since 1972 and miss the real bike shops.
I looked at opening a small shop in my new town and the cost per sqft is just ok expensive!
I've heard bike shop staff (and one famous cycling RUclipsr which I will not name) say that hybrids are "starter bikes" and that you'll upgrade after figuring out which riding style you like. That's kind of true. I've worked my way from a hybrid with front shocks to something that I've heard described as a road bike with flat bars. But I've stuck with hybrid bikes for the past 15 years. They are more comfortable and more affordable than mountain or road or gravel bikes. And they are practical for riding around town for either commuting, sightseeing or fitness rides. Also for a short person, they are definitely more accessible than road or gravel bikes (I'm referring to top tube crotch clearance or "standover height"). Side note - I'm also pretty miffed that some bike brands, including Trek, seem to slowly be doing away with (or at least severely limiting) step-through or mid step frames.
You are so right. Why don't people like you have shops? I assume it is something like the car manufactures not wanting to make small hatchbacks and preferring 80k trucks.
A lot of opportunity is squandered as you rightly observe, although any discussion on this topic is incomplete without mentioning big box store “bike-like objects” and their exploitative nature: the false expectations they elicit as well as their hidden costs. I also think newbie cyclists are uniquely vulnerable due to how much proper fit requires close attention to each rider’s unique physique, I would say to a greater extent than either running or skiing. Each new bike is potentially both a life-changer and the last bike they will ever buy.
It's certainly true that too many bike shops are exactly as you describe. It's also true that local bike clubs can and often do fill the "help get riders started" void. I live in the Seattle area and the Cascade Bike Club is an excellent resource for beginner instruction on riding, maintenance, and they offer regular free group rides for many experience and skill levels in addition to their sponsored large event rides.
My local bike shop is extremely unfriendly. It makes me question how they stay open. The next closest one is more than 30km away and are not much better.
I went into a bike shop today to inquire if they had a certain tire in stock and the guy asked me why I wanted that tire and told me the size I requested wouldn’t fit my bike and wanted to find me something else. I told him that size absolutely fits my bike because it’s what came on it stock from Trek. Then he handed me off to a kid because he had to take a call out in his car. Terrible customer service and lack of knowledge everywhere I go. I’m learning to fix my own bikes and fed up with bike shops.
You nailed it!
wow you have good points.. I hope some bike shop owners can get wind of this vid and give it a watch. we have a couple great shops where I live, luckily.. but there are others around that could learn a lot from your thoughts.
Absolutely agree. We love our our LBS' but none are geared toward the beginner. TG our area Sun & Ski has a selection of "basic" bikes. Good ones vs the chain store ones. $250 to $400 range. Especially for the littles.
I feel a combo pkg of bike, lock, and helmet should be, and can be, included in the sales price. Maybe a winter pkg of gloves, (relatively) cheap lights, and beanie cover.
I DO remember my first disappointing experience in a bike shop; I walked into a shop with a flat tire. The counter person said, 'well, we're really jammed up right now. It should be ready in two weeks.' Myself, being an aircraft mechanic, knew that was a BS answer. Though I had tools for an airplane, I had no biking tools (or knowledge). I replied 'This is a 20 minute job. I'll be back for it this afternoon.'. That was College St Bicycles in New Haven, CT. Fleecing the students who can be fleeced. Bill O'
This is so good. Spot on.
You should do a video collab with The Bike Farmer!
I get the sense.. a lot of the staff at bike shops don’t like the industry way.. with bikes becoming more expensive. They look like they are sour that customers are paying so much for bikes..
Retail bicycle outlets need to do more to encourage young people and older adults to ride bicycles.
Sponsoring bike trains to escort children on their rides to school would be a great start. Organizing volunteers, teachers and other to ride along would be a great start. Getting children out of minivans and onto bicycles would be healthy exercise, build independence and make society healthier.
Fun ride should also be organized. Getting a local bike club or school to sponsor an annual event to a local park or trail would encourage both adults and children to ride bicycles. Getting local elected officials to help with sponsored activities would help to educate them about the need for safe, protected bike lanes and trails in their community. Offering space and coffee for local riders to meet up would also improve store traffic.
My ex and our 4 kids got me a Huffy from Walmart of all places this last Father’s Day. I’ve put a little over 100 miles on it with my latest ride being a 22 mile ride that killed me lol. My opinion is it doesn’t take a lot of money to get into it, but to take it to that next level if that’s what you want it definitely does
Had a brilliant cycle shop in the centre of Cambridge UK. Shout out to Kingsway cycles.
Today I'm moving the second Park stand to a new attic spot where all labor for repairs is going to be free.
Bikes are so much fun, search around for the warm and welcoming bike shops....they still exist.
( They may be hard to find....so bring a Suggestion Box and leave it on the counter....just in case )
And I think kids not biking is the big reason. I have to fight with my wife because she, probably rightly, thinks it's dangerous.
I'm not knowledgeable about this and I'm basing this solely on my surface level understanding but I think more than running or ski/boarding, the bike industry feels closer to golf in several regards, including the barrier to entry and lack of support and encouragement.
On a more positive note, I'm fortunate to have several non-profits, active bike advocacy group, and multiple bike co-ops in my area. Bike shops are mostly duds in regards to the video's topic, but one of them is regularly running workshops geared towards beginners new to the sport (basics like tires/flat, gear and brake adjustment, basic maintenance, etc.).
E-bikes are the new hybrid. That’s how you get people in the door and on the path. I bought my first ebike 4 years ago and today I stripped an old Centurion LeMans to prep it for paint. Be kind to the newbies because they will be the experts soon enough.
A couple of questions - what's going on with the bike shop you started in 2018? Are the profit margins in running and skiing comparable with the (mostly) pathetic margins bike shops get, especially on the bikes you say they ignore so much?
My take on too many bike shops is the balance between passion and business sense is rarely....well...balanced. It's either "We don't give a s__t, we just want your $ and will sell you anything!" greedy biz types or enthusiasts into the newest-latest who don't give a s__t about anyone not interested in the same, with no real business sense.
Whatever happened to the NBDA? They used to be on this subject regularly.
OMG. I have SOOOOO many things to say about this as a lifelong mtb'er, bike park instructor, ex-racer, volunteer group ride leader, educator, customer, and woman. Where to f'ing start.
I think there is also a division between casual bike users that will use a bike when it is convenient and typically are only interested in safety, security and easy of use. Not sure they are actually interested in bikes as a hobby/activity at all and would not have any intertest in bike culture or things like meetups or group rides. Probably not returning to the bike shop unless something breaks.
Then there is the group that might be interested in biking as an activity or hobby, if they are welcomed at the beginning they may end up buying accessories or upgrading in the future.
I imagine that it is difficult to tell which group a customer is in, so in my view you should treat everyone like they are in the second group
Hear me out. RUclips is stalking me I didn't even search this and this video popped up in my feed. I'm 44 years old 5'11" 200lbs. I haven't rode a bike since high school. I've been riding motorcycles since I was 12 but I want to get a decent mountain bike to go camping/light off-roading. I don't really want to spend more than 500.00 what are some good beginner options or should I just go to Academy and get a bike there. I just don't know what to look for. My local shop Sun Country said I need to think about spending 900 + farkles. It seems steep for a beginner.
As a reborn biker, now that I retired, I find the bike industry remarkable bad at on-lines sales. I'd say about 20 years behind most other areas.
I’m wondering what causes the mindset that something as complex as a bicycle should cost ~$700, when the same people will blow tons of money on frivolity with zero long term value (e.g., restaurant food). I think beginners wildly misunderstand what a good bicycle SHOULD cost compared to other things in life.
Why have we just accepted the bike industry line that everything HAS to be made in Asia? They do it because they make maximum money that way, not because it’s good for the sport or the people who buy their products.
I am just getting back on a bike after two years off due to having my shoulder repaired. I was looking for a bike with an upright position. i picked up an older good quality mouintain bike almost free.. It is bare basic, no suspenshion, quil hadlbar stem and cantilever brakes non indexed gears. I fixed it up for about $200. It is so empowering to not be keeping up with the Jones. I am having a great time exploring local trail where i coldn't ride my road bike.
great video btw
I've been that friend that has helped other people buy their first bike in a long time. I've taken and offered to take these people on rides. I've shown them different trails on maps that are close to their homes so it's easy. I do think though that people either want to ride or not. Lot of people think it's a great idea but don't follow through with all the help you give them. Could that be the majority of these hybrid buyers? Kind of like people with New year's resolution gym memberships
I hope by the end of this year, specialize and cervello will sell even their high-end bikes at around $1,000-$2,000. We just need to stop buying these brands even for 2 months so that by december, that s-worx bike that cost $12,000 will go on sale at $2,000. That will happen if we want to because bikes are just simple piece of engineering
The irony is, even if your bike is SUPER nice, they’ll usually see it as “too good of a bike” for you and all of us ignorant peasants that aren’t their little echo-chamber clique. They can have the $250 spandex and $450 3D printed saddles. I just wanna ride.
I've thought about this a bit. I think because they can be dangerous in a road cycling scenario. 🤷♂
Can you link the research about 3 good rides? I would love to use that to build out some potential programs for shops and nonprofits!
The "cycle to work scheme" is absolutely useless in Ireland cause it has in turn pushed bike prices way up....
Dark that sucks
I suspect that has happened everywhere that subsidised tax incentive bike purchase schemes have been introduced. You're going to get money back through your employer so we can charge you more for your new bike.
It's insidious.
Actually I'm in Ireland too and the bike to work scheme is voluntary for employers.
I approached my own employer before I ordered my first e-bike. He said he'd have to look into the scheme because I was the first to ask.
About four months later he came back to me and said if he gave it to me, he'd have to do it for everyone else too so I couldn't get it. I just bought the bike anyway for full price. 🤷♂️
I bought a gazelle that wasn't right for me. I was told I had a 30 day money back guarantee if for any reason I didn't like the bike. I returned it after 6 days. Got a little bit of static from the owner which I didn't appreciate but am upgrading to the bike that's more of what I need. Still, the negativity of the whole experience has tainted what should have been a happy experience. Anyway, can you talk about or recommend good quality , comfortable seats for women? thanks.
I'm a betginner myself. The only cycling space i feel welcome in is RUclips. I've literally gotten 25 seconds in and i'm commenting. What does that say about the cyclng industry's Give-a-shit aboutbeginners?
If your city has a Bike Mayor, definitely cozy up to them.
Ok I'm 60 and from what I can tell, my perspective on this is that the lack of bits for pointing someone in the right direction is simply a matter of the assumed idea of enthusiasm for (possibly latent) riding, and that therefore a guy or a girl just goes out and does it naturally on their own without direction. It's expected to be that way. Combined with of course the assumption that everyone had a kid's perspective on cycling that leads into whatever happens with cycling at 30,40,50 whatever. I think that the idea is that no one is therefore an actual beginner. Who hasn't had a bike and ridden a bike regularly when they were ten. eleven, etc.? Not the same with skiing or running normally. It's a built in interest that comes back and out. I suppose the other angle is more a matter of selling big ticket items, like $4000 carbon frame bikes of whatever kind that most of us do not really need, as opposed to a very decent $700 gravel alloy hybrid, or a $500 city steel hybrid with V-brakes, which are good for a lot of value and use.
Often , often it's because the people working there are young racers-want to be who think too much of themeselves. They may be good racers but that does not make them knowledgeable about bikes or good sales representatives...
Definitely my own experience.
The fact that at some point just about every kid in the US owns/rides a bike seems like the perfect environment for a business to flourish. The cost of admission is buying the bike and helmet and the rest is free....how can you screw that up?
My local specialized dealer High Gear Sports doesn't just hate beginners. He hates everybody.
It seems most production bikes are designed for high-end sports, not for everyday riders. You don't see that in the car industry where it is accepted people use them for transport.
We have park run in Australia that's really good for running. I noticed someone attempting to create a park ride - it's a brilliant idea, especially involving kids.
p.s. I like the look of your shop with kid's section. Getting kids to ride is important. My local bike shop had one little kid's bicycle that wasn't cheap - cost of an adult hybrid.
I could not agree with you more
One more point re: group rides. I don't think I've ever seen a 'kids' ride. Bike 'buses' - yes, but how about a 3 mile ride to the local park or pond, chaperoned by experienced cyclists?
My Question Is: Why Wouldn't You Want A Bike?
... GOLLY there FUN, Affordable, Reliable, Great Exercising Device, and Great For Our Environment. 😳
thats why i switch to running. biking industry as a whole is a joke now. ill be keeping my current bike for a very long time