Most frustrating part of this movie for me was one of my friends walking out of the movie going “did you guys know that snow was gonna be the villain?” Like bro what, lights are on but nobody’s home
@@Q33Rwitch She actually did. It's a retelling of the death of Arlo Chance at the hanging tree just a few days prior, with a few lines from the perspective of Billy Taupe begging her to run away with him.
The fact that Lucy was only in the Games because the Mayor’s daughter wanted Lucy’s boyfriend for herself was cold, like the games probably would have ended after the 10th if it wasn’t for Lucy being chosen
I wonder if that's true! I think Snow still would have tried his best to manipulate his way through to making his tribute win. But maybe he'd have been involved less and not get sent to the distracts without a romantic involvement!
This also reminds me of how in the 1st quarter quell the districts had to vote in their tributes like there’s no WAY that wasn’t a messy affair with the possible exception of career districts who voted in ppl who had a real shot at winning 😂
I read in a different comment section that while yeah, it would be awful to send people you know to their almost certain death, they would at least send the 18 year olds who would legitimately stand a chance rather than 12 year olds randomly being chosen. @@peytonsmiley7951
I think there is a reason we don’t really learn much about Lucy, in the book it is revealed that Snow doesn’t really care about who Lucy is. He wants her to be a certain way, he doesn’t care that what he wants isn’t who she is. We never learn anything about her because this is a story being told from Snow’s perspective. He didn’t care to learn anything about her, so we don’t. To him, she is nothing more than what he wants her to be.
Yes!! From the beginning he saw her more as an object to be used and later possessed. He used everyone around him however he could. "Snow lands on top" becomes more sinister every time he says it.
You're absolutely right ✅️ And also, I think they would have been better off splitting it into two movies, at least from a storytelling perspective bc the book itself is like twice as long as the rest of the hunger games books so it give much more detail. The end product of this movie was basically a highlight reel of the important events.
Funny how every franchise had to have a prequel where the bad guy is actually a misunderstood good guy. It's like they have a mold for every big blockbuster movies
I think the issue is that the movie wasn’t actually supposed to show how Snow went from a good guy to the bad guy. He was always evil even from the very beginning. Unfortunately that’s something that the movie fails to convey, making it seem way more rushed and nonsensical than it’s supposed to be
yeah, the movie doesn't have his inner monologue and that's what's missing. from the outside, he seems like a good person in the beginning. that's what he wants people to think, it's the part he plays. it's his inner monologue that shows who he truly is, and that's really hard to convey on screen without changing a lot of the plot. i got the idea, and a lot of people got there on their own too, but i do think it was very subtle and easy to miss if you were just watching the movie for fun. there's also the theme of nature vs nurture throughout the movie, which is there to show that he did have some good in him, he just didn't really care enough to be a good person. in the book that's very obvious, but they can't do that in the movie without making snow look good in the beginning. i just think that this wasn't the type of book that translates well into a movie. it's a good movie, but it doesn't live up to the book.
@@momomomo__ well said. I was so upset watching the movie, because the book was so well done. I think you're right about it not transferring to a screen well.
I actually thought that the subtle acting choices in the movie reflected Snow's conflicting motives and selfishness (And being evil) really well. He always seemed to say what he thought others would want him to say/what benefits HIM the most. I felt like the absence of inner dialogue didn't bother me that much.
@@momomomo__that makes sense because I thought it was suppose to be him changing from good to evil when Lucy died. However I was a bit lost on what happened with him & Lucy at the end until I went on RUclips in the comment section to understand it better
your interpretation of the movie is literally perfect lol. the whole time i was watching the movie i was thinking “this dude is a literal psychopath” but for some reason my entire family kept blaming lucy gray for everything in the movie and saying she caused everything or betrayed him or something. it felt like they were watching a completely different movie!
Idk why anyone would blame Lucy Gray. She didn't harm anyone for her own personal gain. It's okay to not like her, but very strange to paint her in a negative light that way. She didn't trust him because he killed Sejanus. What's to stop him from killing her?
Yh the whole point of the story (real story not movie) is that he's a narcissist/psychopath, and also in the books, Lucy Gray is also kinda crazy a little. It's basically two crazy characters.
I guess audiences are always on the side of the protagonist, but I found her to be incredibly annoying throughout the entire movie. The singing and worrying about who he killed was unbearable. Like girl who cares, focus on your survival, and don't make enemies with the wrong people.
Its even funnier to me because that’s actually become such an insider in my friend group. After watching the movie I tried to summarize it for my friends but I couldn’t for the love of god say his name right. So in the end I just gave up and said smth like Corelelelele whenever his name came up and now it’s a whole thing
So Coriolanus is the name of one of the least-popular Shakespeare plays, actually. It's the story (Spoilers for a 400-year old unpopular Shakespeare play, I guess) of a general in the time of the Roman Republic who they are going to make a Senator, and as as part of the process, he's supposed to make nice and kiss the rings of the right people, and he's so prideful / based (depending on your point of view) he won't do it, and ends up insulting the wrong people so badly he gets banished instead. Then that pisses him off and he ends up working for the enemies of Rome, and then as he's got the city besieged, he realizes that means his new friends will probably kill his wife and kids and Mom (they come visit him and remind him of that fact), and changes his mind again and his new "friends" kill him. So when I heard that was his first name, I thought it was going to be foreshadowing, but I really can't see his character being a good fit for the Shakespeare play. or vice-versa. Maybe the author just really thought this was going to be her least popular book in the series. Idk.
Heck yeahhhh...... She need much more witty villainous roles .It's suits her .And they don't need to make her hard. Like she can be like was here. Witty ,smart but Hella evil
Viola Davis ATE that role! she gave me the thrills, the excitement of what I expect from sinister people who are bound to be in the hunger games world exactly as how she portrayed it. honestly from my opinion, she is the only one who acted her role very brilliantly although the rest of the cast's acting wasn't really bad but hers just stood out the most to me.
I think that the character Lucy Gray was intentionally one dimensional. She's a mystery. That's the point. The story is about Snow and his spiral into evil. And she played her part. "Goodbye Lucy Gray. We hardly knew you."
Honestly I feel like the majority of criticisms on both the film and movie especially Lucy Grays character relies on misconstruction from the audience. I do think all art can and should be criticized but it is frustrating how much goes over peoples head when to me it’s painfully obvious.
This is insane, like the duality of snow and sejeanus is wild. You got a district kid turned rich that wants to do the right thing and then the capitol poor kid trying desperately to to claw his way to the top
Fun fact: Lucy gray is named after a poem by Wordsworth called Lucy Gray, a girl who disappeared in a snowstorm. That’s what I found interesting about her character because she disappeared / died at the hands of President SNOW kinda what happened to the girl in the poem
And that's exactly encapsulates her entire character like she disappears and haunts snow to the end of his days (esp in the form of Katniss who might potentially be one of the Covey's bloodline) just like the Lucy Gray from the poem and I love that. The book does so much of this literary references that it was fun catching them plus the author's craft definitely got better since her hunger game days. As book at least, the story was very well-written
Yeah in the book Snow is a narcissist and it's very clear he only likes Lucy because he feels like he owns her. At the end he kinda realizes he can't control her and thus why he turns on her and goes on his dictator arc. It's made to be that he fears not having control and thus believes without control everything will fall apart.
President Snow is just a shitier version of Doflamingo, and I'd much rather refer to watch a film of Dressrosa in theaters and on dvd than the newest Hunger Games film.
Ohhh I'm only on episode 160, can't wait to see the Dressrosa arc! That said, I'm very happy to enjoy both the series and this movie, might as well enjoy both man :P @@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr
17:58 They tried to fit a story that was 1.5 times the size of the entire Mockingjay book (Which was made into 2 parts for the movies). So, it’s a classic example of stuffing too much into a limited space. Had they made it 2 parts, or into a miniseries, it would’ve been much better.
They had the perfect opportunity to make it into three parts since the book also kinda has three parts, but Francis Lawrence was too traumatized from the hate he got for splitting up Mockingjay 😂
there’s absolutely no way!!!!!! they have different first names (coriolanus vs president) and president snow is way too old!! that theory is way too wild there’s no way i can believe it!
The actor for snow (Tom Blyth) said he used his eyes and expressions to convey snows inner dialogue, but it’s maybe not as clear to people who haven’t read the book. The scene in the hospital where snow is watching lucy gray sing for her interview and get donations he was feeling very jealous in the book because she was singing about another boy. Snow has an upset and angry expression on his face in that scene in the movie.
What this movie made me realize is that not a lot of people are good at reading others, because they’re comparing a visual movie to a book where it’s easy to portray inner monologue and it feeds you exactly what it wants you to think of a character, unlike a movie. I didn’t read the book but his intentions were clear to me, in the scene you mentioned he also seems confused as to why everyone was empathizing with Lucy, because he doesn’t understand the concept of empathy.
I personally didn't read the book and kinda knew he was the bad guy in the trilogie, and from the get go the character felt off in the movie. I think the actor did great. He was psycho from the start and we can see his mask crumbling thru the movie. Like just from the start when he suggests the candidates being interviewed. He's "saving" the games and on the front it might be bc he wants to save Lucy but eh that was icky.
@@noxart2410 Yeah tom did great. Snow is a very charismatic character, in the book he thinks differently to what he says out loud because he’s always thinking of his image and how he is perceived by others. Tom used his mannerisms and facial expressions to convey snow’s inner dialogue and I think he did a great job! It’s just easier to spot for people who have read the book since they know what snow is thinking in each moment. Also he said this too! “Coryo comes back to the Capitol changed and I wanted to reflect that and leave viewers feeling like he was on the path now to becoming President Snow, so I slowed down his speech, used his consonants a little more precisely, and made his cadence a bit more calculated."
@@retrocinemass Yep, I'm rewatching the movie again and there are scenes where he glances at Sejanus and you just see his disdain! Or the scene at the lake where he's watching Lucy Gray and it's a mix of fascination and contempt. Then she looks at him and you literally see his face rearrange into neutrality. It's subtle but it's there.
I have something to add about the symbolism in this movie, because there is some. Snow's outfits gradually become a deeper red as he has more blood on his hands, he starts out in a bright red and ends in a burgundy color with the 4 people he killed. And in the og movies his suit is very dark red. Also I would like to say that he looked like Eminem when his hair got buzzed. Still hot tho
It's funny that you said that a narcissist would explain away his kills as not being his fault, because that's exactly what Snow does in the book! Especially with Sejanus, he twists it so far that he thinks of it as having given him a second chance at life (by saving him in the arena at first), but then it was obviously Sejanus' fault for "messing up" that chance lol
Yet he still says he killed three people, even in the book. To me it came across more like he's doing his best to convince himself he's not at fault so he wouldn't feel guilty, until killing finally became easy for him. It also seemed like at times he wasn't fully sure of the consequences of his own actions, which was really weird because he should have definitely been. If anything, the book just made him feel petty, stupid at times while young and actively choosing the worst moral path just for the sake of the family name, not necessarily narcissistic. I don't think Snow needed to be pure evil nor narcissistic, I definitely didn't get the impression that he was from the main trilogy, I'm just disagreeing that the book is exactly what Alex is talking about.
This movie makes so much more sense when you read the book. The movie left out a couple important scenes (that helped with character building). There were also a few points that were kind of rushed cause, well, runtime, but the importance of a lot of things were overlooked (ie the compact from Coryo's mother). I do feel like they could have done some scenes better, like the scene in the woods with the jabbarjays and mocking birds after Coryo found the guns. They had the technology to make that scene as good as in the book (jabberjay scene from mockingjay part one with Catniss and Finnick) but for whatever reason, they didn't use it. The movie also didn't do a very good job highlighting Coryo's hate for mockingjays. It was a prominant theme in his character and helped us understand a part of why he hated Katniss so much, since she was called The Mockingjay. Also, the phrase "Snow lands on top." was delivered so poorly in this movie. The phrase was supposed to be more of a reassuring and/or victory phrase that the family used. In the movie, it just sounded like a cringy add in that video games use as a catch phrase with no real meaning. Overall it was a decent movie but it could have been better. Side note, Coryo had such a Cruella like villain origin story and I'm totally here for it.
Interestingly, that's one of the only things I liked about him. The phrase seemed like a talisman of sorts, which an arrogant bent would say with how he said it.
@@LesDrews I guess talisman is a good word. I had trouble finding the right working for how it was used in the books. I guess I just didn’t imagine him saying it so monotone.
I enjoyed this movie, but the main problem for me was purely because I hd already read the books, which allows you to have Snow's inner monologue. Basically, he had bad qualities way from the start. He constantly talks about how Lucy Gray is 'his' and convinces himself she isn't technically district. He also hates how Sejanus bought his way to the capitol, considering him lower then everyone. When Arachne is stabbed, he immediately thinks that it would look good to run to her, instead of actually being upset.
Yeah, his line where Sejanus' mother is like "you're his only friend" and his response is "how sad, to have no friends." is hilarious. He has some of the most hilarious snarky lines but then has some really disturbing thoughts.
I watched the movie first and it's even more of a problem if you haven't read the book. Without his inner monolog it feels like a total character flip for no reason.
The book does a great job of making him seem so normal and personable for a hot minute and then he'll think something utterly batshit lol. The one that stuck with me the most was him wishing Lucy was back in the zoo where he didn't have to worry about her talking to other guys. Like wtf dude 💀
I think a lot of what made the book interesting was necessarily lost in the movie, by the nature of the medium. The book was told through exclusively Snow's perspective and things make a lot more sense when you're getting his inner thoughts. Lucy Gray is one-note because Snow is extremely narcissistic and isn't particularly interested in understanding her perspective. His "romantic" interest in her develops quickly because it's more obsessive and possession-based than truly romantic. His shift to working with Dr. Gaul also does not feel sudden in the book, because he was NEVER empathetic and things were always going to go this way since his environment reinforces his worst thoughts and traits. I think the actors try to play things to communicate that, but it's way more subtle and is easy to miss if you're not familiar with the source material. Really unfortunate, because I enjoyed the book quite a lot. Edit: I commented too soon! This was just addressed at the end of the video, lol.
@@sarar4270 Yeah, I saw the movie with my boyfriend who hadn't read the book, and there were things he was confused about similarly to Alex because he didn't have the grounding in the book. I felt bad, because he shouldn't have needed to read the book to enjoy the movie.
well we got pretty much 0 new information about lucy gray from the shots of her perspective, because the shots were what she was seeing. not what she was thinking or feeling. they were still from the perspective of snow.
I agree! I came out not liking the movie at all because I felt what made the characters and story so interesting was lost or thrown out in the film for the sake of time and making it look cinematic. It also felt super choppy and rushed, and a lot of key moments in the book were either taken out or changed too much.
@@monicaenglish2566I agree. I also personally feel like they tried to modernify the movie. I can’t place it exactly but whilst the sets/costumes/make-up are amazing, the script and acting feels like it’s trying to appeal too hard to a more mainstream audience. Might just be me though.
Snow by Demenour and behavouir did have the mindset of ‘they brought it on themseleves’ I mean when he killed the mayors daughter he was like ‘yup I had to’ then he literally blamed it all on sejanus and then was like ‘but were brothers so don’t worry I’ll fix everything’ (knowing damn well he ratted sejanus to the capitiol like a week before - sealing his fate) and then in the arena after he killed the kid he was like ‘I had to’ and while he was betraying sejanus he was saying ‘your gonna get me killed just for knowing you’ (victimising himself and making it seem like sejanus is ‘forcing his hand’) implying that yes it is technically their fault for their own deaths even though snow was 100% responsible.
I love randomly opening youtube and finding alex complaining about a new thing Edit: holy crap 2.5k likes thank you so much for finding my dumb commentary entertaining
The love story makes sense (in my opinion). Snow views love as ownership and what he gets out of it. If she puts on a good show, he gets to become what he already pretends to be. And she saved him because without him she'd absolutely be dead the next day. Her perspective of love is based on trust and by braking the rules to greet her upon her arrival, he showed her that she can trust him (as long as she's useful to him). Also he's very charming and good looking which always helps. And she's recently been through a bad break up. I wouldn't necessarily call it a live story in the sense of what most people associate with love, but as a love story out of happenstance and dependency. That's why things fall apart quickly in the end as they don't depend on each other anymore
She is one note because the movie/book was from the prespective of a man that never cared to see the rest of her. He wanted her to be something, he painted an image of her in his mind,and became infatuated with the idea of being a hero, being powerful, being loved, and having the perfect wife at the Capitol all at once. He was never truly in love with her. And how quickly he shot her was proof of it. He'd end up killing her to tie up the loose ends which is what Lucy was rightfully afraid of. She's one dimensional because he never cared to know her deeply in any way
so yes the symbolism is way deeper if you really get into it. Songbirds and snakes represents lucy gray's nickname in the movie as "snows little songbird" and snakes represents Snow's toxic mentality and how he poisons everyone else's lives. the name Lucy Gray comes from a poem about a young girl in England who disappeared into snow and was never found, the poem doesnt describe Lucy very well and she is just a mystery to the reader and i think that's an element they wanted to keep when they didn't tell us everything about Lucy Gray Baird. Also its supposed to be from Snow's point of view so they dont go far into detail of characters that even he himself didn't seem to want to learn much about.
They went a little too far trying to make Snow seem empathetic in the beginning imo. He was in it to win, and then he was in for Lucy Gray, but he didn’t care about the other tributes or district people. That should have come through clearer (the food scene where he convinced Sejanus to bring food to the tributes was switched, in the books it was Sejanus who convinced Snow and I think that was better). Also I wish they’d leaned more on Snow not thinking of Lucy Gray as district, and wanting her to come to the Capitol with him. That was really important. In the movie it seemed like he would’ve been fine staying in district 12 with Lucy Gray when that wasn’t the case at all in the books, and his desire to return home and restore his family name (his “birthright”) was the most important thing to him.
He didn't like District 12 in the movie. In the scenes where he walks in the forest with the Coveys and later with Lucy Grey, you can see he's having a bad time with bugs. Having read the book, I thought the actor did a great job conveying everything the character was thinking through subtle acting, but I agree the direction didn't emphasis enough how much of his empathy and politeness is an act. Maybe if the camera had lingered more on his face when people called him a rebel (which he hated in the books) or every time he pretended to be friend with Sejanus, it would've shown something is off about him.
Honestly I feel like people are just too eager to project positive aspects onto a nice-looking young man. The movie basically starts with him popping off ideas to make the game worse. He doesn't do anything for anybody but himself and the tiny circle of people he cares about, which does not include his so-called best friend.
I really like you taking the time to say what you appreciate about the movie you're critiquing; often it feels like channels like this are just incessantly ragging on shows and movies without giving them any credit
This is a movie where reading the book beforehand is really helpful. As a fan of the book, I was pretty pleased with the movie. But that’s because I knew what was going on in Snow’s head the whole time. Tbh, this was one of the best movies I’ve seen in a long time.
Beauty of Snow's character is that no big tragic event has happend that turned him evil. Most bad guys background stories are like that now in movies but Snow is unique because he doesn't have problems like any other person doesn't have he just choose to be immoral everytime because that IS his personality. I think that is really realistic kind of villain and very much backstory of most dictators and bad rulers in real life
This too like he’s genuinely just a bad person and that’s who he is. He has trauma but nothing that makes you understand why becoming a dictator and committing murder was the appropriate next step
@@f.airy.x That kinda bothers me though. Like people aren't just evil/bad. So if it' just born bad then why did this story need to be told? He was bad as Donald Sutherland and bad as a kid. Nothing to see here.
@@LesDrews that’s so so SO incorrect. I mean look at Ted Bundy. He himself said he has no serious trauma for doing what he did he was just a psychopath and a bad person.
@@LesDrewsI disagree, because I think some people ARE just bad/evil. However, I agree that there was no point in this story being told. I think it actually would have made sense if there was a downfall. Snow being evil the whole time makes this story pointless. It adds nothing to The Hunger Games story.
I read the book first so a lot of the movie made sense to me. I think the reason why Lucy Gray ran away from Snow was because they both realized that She was the last person who knew what Snow did, and Snow will do anything to get to the top.
@@SilentReader-wr6pq That's pretty disappointing because I see it as one of bigest resemblances to President Snow, the fact that he poisoned his enemies and why his breath smells like blood, I really liked the easter egg
This really shoud have been a mini series. It needed time to really wrestle with snows inter dialogs, show the buildup in his and Lucy's relationship (and what it meant to him vs. What it meant to her), and flesh out what went down in district 12. He was ALWAYS a villain, he was possessive and manipulative and didn't care about others even when his actions got them hurt or killed. Everything he did was him trying to twist the people and happenings around him to have him come out the other side better off. It was done very well in the book.
In my English class we actually analyzed all 5 hunger games movies. The hunger games series is actually a retelling of Romeo and a Juliet. Lucy gray is actually based off of the character Lucy Gray from the poem Lucy Gray the girl who disappeared by William Wordsworth. All of the songs and stuff contain a lot of symbolism. From a movie perspective the movies kinda bad, from a literature perspective there’s actually a lot more to it
Personally I feel like Snows little episode in the forest was not handled well at all and I had to go google it to get satisfying answers as to why he reacted and acted the way he did. Turns out that in the books his character was a lot more disturbed and sinister throughout the story. and because you knew about his thoughts it was way better portrayed how he finally lost it, and that it wasn't a sudden thing at all but had quite the significant buildup. I suppose that's easier to get across in writing then. I did enjoy the film tho
In the book it's explained better lol Snow justifies his feelings for Lucy-Gray by saying she's actually Covey and not "True district" He's always been on the side of were better than the districts
This channel is great and I can't quite put my finger on it but something about that over the shoulder image of your little avatar sat in his arm chair with the popcorn and his feet up watching the clips just has me in hysterics. 😂
the one thing about this movie is that there’s so much content in the books to put into one movie, so everything feels rushed. especially snow and lucy gray’s relationship. like in the books they spent WEEKS getting to know each other, and that’s how they fall for each other. but in the movie it feels like 2 days.
Ngl, I feel like this is the Hunger Games book that could have worked as two films. There was enough content for it. But they probably didn't do that because it wasn't popular with Mockingjay
The problem I have encountered with visual media is that most directors and writers cannot transcribe introspective and pensive characters onto the screen. In books, you have the context: The thought process, the road the character paved to reach that mindset, their beliefs, and values, but movies don't have that. So these characters whose actions are determined through their own internal mindset and not just a response to the environment look almost pathetic, because without their internal perspective, their actions just don't make sense.
They really would have been well served by having coriolanus do voice overs every now and then especially in the last scenes. I don't know why they didn't have at least a few of his internal monologue moments in the movie
hm IDK if it's a problem with filmmakers or with audiences, or maybe a bit of both. like I watched the first Hunger Games before i had read the book, and I had no issue with Katniss. she was a tough girl in a horrible situation who didn't show her emotions easily because she was used to having to perform strength and stoicness. I was quite surprised when a lot of folks said she was wooden and boring, but that by reading the book they understood her performance more. I think audiences are so used to seeing protagonists who are charming, dashing, quippy, basically Tony Stark, that when they see something not that, ESPECIALLY when it's a woman, it frazzles them and they call her "wooden". same thing with Captain Marvel. I never thought she was wooden, I thought she was sad and emotionally repressed :( and maybe that's a personal experience thing because I got called too sensitive so often when I was a kid I eventually stopped showing any feelings at all and stopped speaking, but it kind of blows that audiences can't identify with anyone who is too far outside the socially acceptable norms of human behaviour they've come to expect from protagonists.
Also I feel like in terms of actual stuff happening(not just inner thoughts of Snow) the book wouldn't really be long enough for two movies, and they would have to start making up a lot of new scenes. Which could make the pacing and story better yes. But they could also annoy some audiences.
Also, YA genre is already dead. It was popular in early 2010's because of Hunger Games. And then, you realise, the other YA movies are just copying Hunger Games with teens surviving in dystopian future like Divergent and Maze Runner.
Honestly, I feel like it would’ve worked best as a miniseries. Having multiple episodes would’ve gave the plot points so much more time to breathe, and it would even justify including the missing inner monologue from Snow in the book.
i read the book before seeing this movie and the book is fascinating. it portrays the story and particularly coriolanus’s growth and how he changed so well. i think the medium makes it difficult to portray the same message and for us to truly understand his character since the book is so philosophical and everything is about the way coriolanus thinks, which obviously you can’t see in a movie. as a book fan i enjoyed the movie a lot, specifically for the performances and cinematography. it was accurate and showed what i wanted to see on screen exactly how i wanted to see it. but i understand why non book fans would be confused or not enjoy it as much because you really need to read the book to get the full experience.
One of my favourite things about this book has to be how main character everyone is like the principal who's spent like 20 years perfecting that "sound of snow falling" line, then coryos dad goes and dies so he's like damn it, I'll become a teacher so I can say it to his son eventually
As a reader of the book, I think this was a great movie adaption. Not everything can be as fleshed out as it is in a 300-500 page book (different editions). They got the main events and plot points in the movie very well and precise. Lucy and Snow’s love story (if you can call it that) was also more fleshed out in the book, although it was mainly just shown through Snow’s obsessive thoughts about her. This is one of my favourtie films of 2023 and that may be bias since I love The Hunger Games
I was honestly so impressed by how well done it was. I wish they shrunk the hunger games part a bit more and really fleshed out his decent into madness but it was honestly my favorite adaptation in a long time.
Lucy Gray is one of my favorite characters ever written BECAUSE shes so one note. We see this girl who has so much about her but we never find out who she really is. Why? Because Snow only sees her as such. Its like we are seeing a memory of Lucy Gray and not the actual person she is and I think that is phenomenal writing
I am just gonna say... This Snow character is one of the best on screen explanation of what psychopath is. . None of those killings spree movies, socially numb characters. This snow is 'how' psychopaths are irl. I dont read the book (i follow just the movies), so if it was on purpose, i applaud the them for it.
Alex: Wait they're in love now?! They put you in a cage, he gave you a cookie. That's all it takes? I've been doing things the wrong way for years! Such an underrated sound byte. I had to pause I was laughing so hard
The use of music in the hunger games has always been important. The original movies just didn't include it enough. Music has historically been used in times of struggle to heal people and used in rebellion to restore hope and make voices heard. The exploration of musics importance in ballad of songbirds is genius, and it always angers me to see people make fun of it and say it wasn't necessary.
I think it’s one of those unfortunate situations where the background and symbolism are better than the actual product. Like the imagine of rebellion in the lens of movie magic should be incredibly strong. But a single character randomly bursting into song is not something that really works for real people who happen to be the entire audience. It was always gonna be tricky to get the right feeling from that.
I thought you were going to mention the repurposed themes in this movie from the trilogy. That was something I found incredibly intriguing while I watched this the first time. To your point, I absolutely loved the use of music in the movie I since it made the districts feel more relatable.
@@TheEleventhElven haha it's giving: 1Corinthians 1:1-3 1 Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes, 2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: 3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
This is why the book is generally better. We get more of Snow’s direct thoughts on situations. More is explained and drawn out. The question is sorta always “Was Lucy REALLY ever herself? Was she really ever in love with Snow? Or was it all an elaborate ruse to keep herself alive that went on a bit too long after she actually won?” And truly, some of that can be asked of Snow. At what point did he choose his future over Lucy? Was it always the case and he was just good at hiding it or did he truly love her the entire time and was wrestling with his plans and couldn’t find a balance? At what point did his shift happen? Did Lucy know from the start the type of man he was and used him? Or hoped he’d change? The most glaring issue is the ending, in my opinion. The scene makes it seem like Lucy led him to the guns. Like she had put them there herself. The actress even performs the scene oddly that makes us suspect her. And then she disappears and the ending takes place and Snow “goes crazy”. It all seems like “what the actual fuck just happened?” Was Snow the villain the whole time? Was Lucy the villain until she noticed who Snow really is? Or are they both shitty people using each other? But in the book, we read his feelings. We read that he has just stumbled upon the gun that could ruin his life and now he has a way out. A way back to the capital. A way back to his plans to be who he always wanted to be. And Lucy sees this. She sees that shift and immediately recognizes that she is absolutely fucked and the only one standing in his way. That is why the ending takes place the way it does. Granted, Lucy knew she was lied to quite a bit earlier and she went cold to him because honesty is huge for her. The book just executes all of this so much better. In the movie the ending just comes off as weird and makes it seem like Snow initially had no plans to leave Lucy whereas the book showcases his commentary and we understand things so much better. Both of those characters were never truly doing what they said they were. Some say Lucy was just as dirty as Snow. Others say she wasn’t. It’s purposefully left ambiguous. Just like the question of “did she really live?” Is left open, for the most part.
I'm pretty sure the songbird is in reference to Snow because he used a songbird to tell on his friend, and Lucy is the snake because of the snakes in the game but also she tries to hurt/kill? him with a snake at the end. I could be misinterpreting but I don't think it has to do with their names
the movie needed to work in the inner monologues of snow better. like in the cabin scene they have lucy say "except for me" when talking about his loose ends. but in the book she would never say that and trigger him more. he thought of it on his own. he was truly spiriling like never before here. the entire end in the forest is just pages and pages of him desending into full blown paranoia. and it adds to his character "switch" and how it's not a switch at all. no one "made him turn". no one did anything he just always thought this way of the world and people in it and it was slowly trickling out until finally he let it all flow.
16:44 haven’t watched the movie, but that was how Snow thought in the books. He blamed himself killing the tributes and the mayor’s daughter on Sejanus, and he blamed himself killing Sejanus on Sejanus, deciding he was so reckless he would have ended up dying anyway. And in the he decides that him trying to kill Lucy was self defense because she was planning to kill him
I read the book right before watching the movie and was so frustrated by how much important detail they left out. Like with all book to movie conversions, nothing makes sense to viewers who don't read. I was so excited for this because I really enjoyed the original movies but this missed the mark for me.
Actually most of the fans of the book do agree that the third act was too rushed and that a part two would've been better. But since the director was the same guy from the last two movies and that wasn't well recieved at the time he decided to do ALL the book in 1 movie. But yeah, to me there's DEFINITELY a feeling that this movie was too long and too short at the same time (loved it, but as a reader I felt they cut some stuff that showed better how Snow was actually resentful and manipulative the whole time and not some "nice guy-suddenly turned evil") Edit: PLUS his relationship with Lucy is super rushed cause the first part is supposed to happen in like 2 weeks not 3 days lol
Only difficult thing about splitting the movie into 2 parts is that there really isn't enough action in part 3 of the book/snow as a peacekeeper to justify a whole nother 2.5 hours of film, you know? And you can't split it during the actual games, either
Same dude. I had little expectations for this movie but after I watched it, I gotta admit. This movie did make me nostalgic of the YA dystopian movie era. Also, this movie had a better villain origin story than Cruella
I would say that the way they introduced lucys singing in the beginning was pretty cringe the first time i watched it. It felt out of place because the entire scene leading up to her singing lacked any emotion, so her singing was almost comedic. So i can understand people who havent watched the book finding it unnecessary
Well, basically, all the characters aside from snow are one note in the book bc it's from his perspective, and it's intentional to show how he views everyone and everything as simply something to control to get his way. I understand for a movie that kinda needs to be changed for the sake of entertainment. But it was used well in the book to give it that eerie feeling that snow always has looming around him. Seeing how he truly feels about the people he's presenting to like. He never acts like he's truly sejanus' friend, but for some reason, his capital classmates and even the audience of the movie think they are "best friends". When in his head the entire book all he can think about is how much he resents him, how sejanus is a representation of everything snow wants yet hates at the same time. It's brilliant in the book it's a shame the movie couldn't find a way to work in the inner monologue
Honestly, I do understand a bit just because in the books there is few characters he’s truly himself around so it’s very hard to show how evil he really is just because like the people around him the audience is falling for his deceit because we can’t see beyond the facade he lets on at the start
I don't understand why people say that they found Snow to be inconsistent or sth. Even weirder is the claim "How did he go from empathetic to psychopath?". He was never empathetic, there was no big corruption because he did not start the movie as a good person. He talks badly about Sejanus to fit in but also pretends to be his friend. He wants to use the vulnerability od district people to make the show more engaging to keep it running because it will get him his scholarship - even if it will mean death games for children for more than 70 years. If people think those things are too subtle to understand that he is not a good or empathetic person, you wouldn't even see it if it was written in bold read on his forehead. He also doesn't really love Lucy, at least definitely not the way Peeta loves Katniss. He feels something because she was the first selfless person (perhaps aside from Tigress) he met who treated him well and helped him, when she could've run. She is also someone desirable, someone loved by the audience so she is prestige for him. She is free-spirited and he wants to own her. When he follows her to district 12 it's not out of love - it's because he has nothing left, nothing he can own, if he doesn't go there. When they talk at the lake and when he gets the offer to go to district 2, it is plain obvious that he loves the prestige of the capitol more (desires it more) than Lucy because while he wants to take her with him, he would not stay in district 12 with her and rather leave without her. He was never a good guy. He just went from a conflicted narcissist and opportunist to a bad person who is sure of what their doing and believe it to be justified. And btw I did not read the book, I understood this from watching. Everyone I went with did.
It's strange and concerning. People just don't seem to have good judgement when it comes to red flags. I never read the books but clearly he was not OK since the beginning. Did people miss that he's not just fine with the games but constantly coming up with ideas to make them worse? That he wrote a whole essay on it after a classmate was killed, while his school partner was crying all night like a normal person?
This is coming from someone who never cared to read the books and just watch the movies. Details are clearly missed out and what readers already know gets filled in when the movie lacks in explaining. A reader has a harder time seeing the problem with the adaptation and a viewer doesn’t understand a lot of what’s going on. I never saw snow as a bad guy until the end. I’m not seeing in inner thoughts. Blame poor directing, because that’s the biggest issue. I have no hate towards the books. I’m now aware that they’re much better. I personally don’t care to read them because the movies didn’t do a well enough job. Harry Potter got me to read the books when I was just a kid, and those are completely different than the movies.
@@JayziahRoyal I’m not claiming that it’s the same as the books or that it’s better. I didn’t read the books either, remember? But I am not oblivious to the bad actions Snow shows right from the start. And if people don’t see them even after I listed them, then I really don’t know what you’d need to see it. Like, he is literally part of the discussion of whether the games should be abolished and he decides to advocate for keeping them and making them, children killing children, more entertaining? And that’s not supposed to be bad? In what world? And that’s the beginning of the movie.
I don't think people really think Snow was a good person, I just think the movie did a shit job in properly flushing out his actions as shitty or as a conflicted narc especially considering the environment where all of the capitol sees the district members as like second citizens to the point where it is best not to be seen with em. So when his sister says to get Lucy's trust and give her more empathy after he says all he wants to do is win. He takes a second to think about it and next scene he goes to train to give Lucy a rose where the audience has no fucking clue what his intentions were. Did he go to get her trust and have her sing to win or to get to know Lucy because she is a human and realized she was right? So when he shows up with a flower and decides to go to the train to get her trust I can see how audience can interpret that as empathetic especially going out of his way to be seen with her on television. Another example would be when Snow said to Sejanus "do you think they would give those kids scraps if they don't have a reason to do it" makes it seem like his recommendations for the hunger games was to help the kids involved through using incentives he knew would convince the game master. Where then after Sejanus saying the "Capitol would kill me" after seeing the cruelty of how they treat the districts Snow then calls for action by sneaking food to the tributes risking a possible violation. Where even Sejanus calls him a rebel so I can see why most audience can interpret Snow's actions as heroic or empathetic by "rebelling." In the book Sejanus was the one who convinced Snow to give food and not the other way around. Due to how rush the movie was and poorly acted the movie was, when Snow was told he was exiled he seem like he did not even stress about it so once he was in the process of placement and asked to be sent to district 12 I can see people initially interpreting to be done out of love where the audience only gets to see Snow did not really give af abt her when he gets the offer. There really is not any core indicators if Snow's feelings for Lucy was legitimate it only snatches the rug the part of the movie. I believe it would have helped a lot to have a better pacing to show more signs of his disregard and need for winning other than unclear actions, I say unclear because imo they can be interpreted either way.
This is more so the writer than the movie, but I think it's quite ironic how Snow's big idea was to 'humanise' the victims...er, contestants...to keep the games going, only for Katniss to come along and use that same technique to bring down the games (and Panem itself)
I was lowkey in love with the movie bc I read the books. They kept it as true to it as they could. I still love to watch your videos though Alex bc ur hilarious
@@annamariejones2837 the movie was originally gonna be 3hrs long but they had to cut it to 2hrs. because its too long i guess. I hope they release the directors cut soon 🥲
Your critique of not seeing enough or getting enough information about Lucy Grey is 100% true but that’s the point because the story is only in Snow’s perspective so you only get what Snow sees or cares about. He never cared about Lucy just about having her in a possessive way
I thought Snow was suppose to be a brilliant strategist. If that's what they were going for then he'd at least find out more about her as a point of strategy.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 this is a young, poor and desperate Snow who is very good at manipulation and quick yet careful with his words. This Snow becomes a master strategist but this story really compares his own life in the parallels of the hunger games as a survivor trying to use his tools at hand to handle the constant things that don’t go to his plan. In fact in the book really the only time Snow really slips up is when he truly opens up and is vulnerable with Lucy saying “threes enough for me” and then not know how to respond to her question about it. I don’t think he really cares who Lucy is just how she makes him feel and what he gains from possessing her
@@jeremiahnoar7504 He's a narcissist. He assumes everyone is like him, especially the people he likes. Otherwise he wouldn't like them. This is also why he thinks the games are necessary; he's a terrible person who assumes everyone else is terrible too.
I think the fact that we get so little about lucy gray is cause it's from snow's perspective and he's a very.... self serving man that doesn't actually get to know lucy besides the songbird pedestal that he puts her on. The movie actually gives her a more sense of character than the books cause the book is purely in snow's inner monologue & veiwpoint
your confusion at who snow is when there's 22 minutes left in the film was so real!!! I read the book and watched the movie in tandem thinking "wow, if I didn't have the book's introspection I would be totally lost here"
I feel it does give some context as to why Snow hates Katniss so much. She reminds him of Lucy Grey. The Mockingjay pin reminds him of not only the bird he used to betray Serjanus but it was the creature that allowed Lucy Grey to escape from Snow. The song "The Hanging Tree" which Lucy Grey sang became the song of the rebellion Katniss was leading. Katniss is a reminder of his crimes that got him where he is.
We didn't need the context. She was a threat to the Capitol and he was smart enough to see it before most people, that was all we needed. Making it all about a girlfriend he had decades ago for a few weeks/months takes away from his character, making him seem pathetically petty instead. It also make it seem like Katniss' actions were not remarkable in their own right to get under his skin, but just an annoying reminder of past events that affected him more. Edit: Also it gets laughable at some point just how many connections to Katniss are made. The mockingjay pin and the song you can kind of explain historically, even if it's a bit of "well, it sure is a coincidence that's what Katniss randomly chose". But out of every possible plant, Lucy just had to talk about katniss, not even referring to it with the more popular name? Yeah, that's not forced at all...
@@louisecram2616"at what point did he realise the depth of your indifference towards him?" "I'm not indifferent towards him." "don't lie, you promised!" (...) "I don't want to kill you I want us to be friends" gets another meaning then.
I like how your take is the literal thing the books tell. Snow is a narcissist and doesn’t even feel bad when people die because of him. He justifies it somehow to make himself feel not guilty about it. The books are, as you said, a lot clearer about that. That’s why I really enjoyed watching the movie after reading the book. It was like a bonus with visuals.
I have an unhealthy obsession with this film 😭 Even having read the book, i really enjoyed it more than the others for some reason. Love the content, Alex 🫶🏾
Reading the book after the movie, there are just things that the movie did so much better. I think the book is great if you want to learn more about the history of PANEM and more scenes of Lucy Grey and Snow
@@agirlwithablog3579 I agree! Most book to film adaptations are generally seen as bad because of the amount of information that tends to be omitted, but I think the movie had a rather healthy balance :) There are things I wish I could have seen in the movie, but there's only so much that can be done. After all, the film is like 2.5 hrs haha. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I LOVED THIS MOVIE SM, but i don't understand how it was 12+ in my country and it was more violent and dark than the fnaf movie that was 15+ 💀 (Im from Slovakia)
All of the movies are pretty dark, but considering the original movies deal with someone who leads rebellion against the Capitol, it's more hopeful than the new movie.
Great movie!!! So many small details in the movie but my favorite has to be Tigris mentioning early on that she hates snows dad and then at the end saying that snow looks really nice, a lot like his father
16:40 the way that in the book that is EXACTLY snows thought process. Like he fully blames everyone for their own deaths, he takes no accountability and doesn’t see himself as in the wrong for anything. Thats why he gets so mad at sejanus because he doesn’t have any empathy for district people and thinks that sejanus is stupid for not acting in his own self interest
The movie was good but, as always happens when THG books are adapted to the screen, we miss on a lot of things bc huge parts of the story and character development happen through the narration and inner thoughts from our protagonists (Katniss and Snow). The film portrays Snow as a tragic young man who just wants to give his family a better life but has no option but to be selfish and cruel in order to survive. Book Snow is a SoaB from the very start. Literally the first chapter is him waiting for Tigris to come back with his dad's shirt, and he starts wandering how could Tigris make it look better if they have no money to buy fabric or any materials, so he assumes he had to sell herself in order to acquire this stuff and instead of being saddened or ashamed at the thought of his cousin doing something so awful, he decides that, although ugly, Tigris' naivety may attract some... clients. Like... this guy's a dick from the get go, and it's the same with Lucy Gray. Since she's District, everyone in the Academy talks about her and the other tributes like they're property and Snow truly believes she's an object that belongs to him. When she sings in television, her song insinuates she did some SW back at 12 in order to survive and Snow just blocks the thoughts of her being associated with SW bc that doesn't fit the image of her he has created. And bc he just sees her as property, in the end is so easy for him to leave the memory of her behind. As for Lucy Gray, you said it yourself, she's a performer. When she noticed Snow was interested in her she probably feigned to reciprocate those feelings in order to survive bc it's easier for her Mentor to be interested in keeping her alive if he's interested in her. She probably did end up liking Snow bc of how he risked his own life to help her several times, but she was still unattached enough that she gtf outta there the moment she realized he was not what it seemed.
one of my biggest criticisms of the movie is that in the book, it’s told from snow’s POV, so we get all his inner thoughts and feelings. so the truth we learn in the books is that he’s been selfish from day 1, and no matter his actions, it’s never betterment of others but always for himself. everything he does is to benefit him. but we don’t get that in the movie, so some of his actions seem so out of character even though they make sense with the book explanation.
i hate that people who watch only the movie see it as "snow going from an empathic teen to who he becomes" when the book makes it clear from literal page 2 that he is not at all an "empathetic teen" he has always struggled with the line between good and evil he just learns to choose the evil side as the story unfolds. it's an exploration of human nature and political theory (the exact theories are directly quoted at the beginning of the book). and the movie makes the tiniest changes that make him seem more empathetic probably for the sake of getting audiences to care more. like he doesn't come up with the idea of feeding the tributes sejanus is bringing food to marcus and snow follows along to make himself look better, when the classmate gets stabbed with the bottle he's literally has to be yelled at by lucy to go do something and he has an entire debate in his mind about how that's a great idea bc the cameras are on and it would make him seem like a great guy to the capital citizens watching. he does have moments of humanity of course. he is empathetic to a degree. which just adds to the fact that he isn't some mustache twirling cartoon villain. he is a demonstration of what real world politicians that impliment harmful policy are like.
As someone who only watched the movie I don't vet why people call him empathetic. The only thing he really does out of empathy is how he cares for Tigris. All other actions benefit him. Lying about his wealth, becoming a mentor, trying to save Lucy Grey, saving his friend (forgot the name), ... . All just to get him where he wants to be. He's selfish from the start. But I think because he's pretty people expect him to go from hero to villain
I felt like this was one of the movies you enjoyed more if you read the books. Usually Im over critical of book adaptations becuase things are not the way I imagined them to be but in this case it felt like you knew the inner monologue because of the books and could therefore fill the empty spots if that makes sense. I do get why the movie is not as enticing to people who havent read the books though. One thing I still notice that they kind of changed, is that they made snow seem nicer and more empathetic in some ways to make his change more drastic which overall doesnt make sense though because this story was in its nature never supposed to be about a traumatic backstory making someone evil
It's funny how you mention at the end that "a narcissist would think... Blah blah." Because that is 100% what Snow was thinking in the book. And I was curious how it would translate on screen when you couldn't hear his inner monologue. In the book what Snow THINKS and what he says/does are VERY different. He is a self serving narcissistic robot on the inside, but on the outside he pretends to care and have empathy. But I didn't know how they'd demonstrate that two faced nature in a movie (I haven't seen the movie)
You totaly need to read the Book. Its from Snows PoV and its so clear he is an evil narcissist BUT the book is somehow able to make you want him to win. But also you want realy badly to punch him. 😊
Most frustrating part of this movie for me was one of my friends walking out of the movie going “did you guys know that snow was gonna be the villain?” Like bro what, lights are on but nobody’s home
Your friend is the type of guy to watch the Matrix and ask if you knew that they lived in a simulation
That's more about your friend than the movie
Alex inspires me.. My parents said if i get 70K followers They'd buy me a professional camera for recording..begging u guys , literally
Begging..
@@BfordOfficial You’re telling me
@@namantherockstar pass
Knowing that Lucy Gray wrote "The Hanging Tree" makes it seem like even more of a gut punch to Snow when Katniss performs it.
yeah know everything about katniss is like whiplash to snow thats why he absolutely despises her 😭😭😭 reminds him too much of lucy gray
She didn’t write it
depends if you’re referring to the book or movie. we don’t really know if snow saw katniss’ broadcast in the books.
@@Q33Rwitch She did
@@Q33Rwitch She actually did. It's a retelling of the death of Arlo Chance at the hanging tree just a few days prior, with a few lines from the perspective of Billy Taupe begging her to run away with him.
The fact that Lucy was only in the Games because the Mayor’s daughter wanted Lucy’s boyfriend for herself was cold, like the games probably would have ended after the 10th if it wasn’t for Lucy being chosen
I wonder if that's true! I think Snow still would have tried his best to manipulate his way through to making his tribute win. But maybe he'd have been involved less and not get sent to the distracts without a romantic involvement!
@@Azayth103 exactly I think if it was a weak little girl from 12 Snow would have tried but wouldn’t have become as attached as he did with Lucy
This also reminds me of how in the 1st quarter quell the districts had to vote in their tributes like there’s no WAY that wasn’t a messy affair with the possible exception of career districts who voted in ppl who had a real shot at winning 😂
@@peytonsmiley7951 yeah can you imagine 😒 that would have been awful
I read in a different comment section that while yeah, it would be awful to send people you know to their almost certain death, they would at least send the 18 year olds who would legitimately stand a chance rather than 12 year olds randomly being chosen. @@peytonsmiley7951
Whoever thought of that "snow lands on top" line must have be _super_ proud of it...
It's literally the last line of the book
@@louisecram2616whoever wrote the book must be super proud of it
Suzanne Collins? 😭
@@JustCalebbx yeah! 😆
I don’t mind Snow landing on top 😏
I think there is a reason we don’t really learn much about Lucy, in the book it is revealed that Snow doesn’t really care about who Lucy is. He wants her to be a certain way, he doesn’t care that what he wants isn’t who she is.
We never learn anything about her because this is a story being told from Snow’s perspective. He didn’t care to learn anything about her, so we don’t. To him, she is nothing more than what he wants her to be.
Yes!! From the beginning he saw her more as an object to be used and later possessed. He used everyone around him however he could. "Snow lands on top" becomes more sinister every time he says it.
Lucy gets the 500 days of Summer treatment
You're absolutely right ✅️
And also, I think they would have been better off splitting it into two movies, at least from a storytelling perspective bc the book itself is like twice as long as the rest of the hunger games books so it give much more detail. The end product of this movie was basically a highlight reel of the important events.
Funny how every franchise had to have a prequel where the bad guy is actually a misunderstood good guy. It's like they have a mold for every big blockbuster movies
@@stellviahohenheimbut in this book he never really was a good guy if read it you see how truly terrible he was
I think the issue is that the movie wasn’t actually supposed to show how Snow went from a good guy to the bad guy. He was always evil even from the very beginning. Unfortunately that’s something that the movie fails to convey, making it seem way more rushed and nonsensical than it’s supposed to be
yeah, the movie doesn't have his inner monologue and that's what's missing. from the outside, he seems like a good person in the beginning. that's what he wants people to think, it's the part he plays. it's his inner monologue that shows who he truly is, and that's really hard to convey on screen without changing a lot of the plot. i got the idea, and a lot of people got there on their own too, but i do think it was very subtle and easy to miss if you were just watching the movie for fun. there's also the theme of nature vs nurture throughout the movie, which is there to show that he did have some good in him, he just didn't really care enough to be a good person. in the book that's very obvious, but they can't do that in the movie without making snow look good in the beginning. i just think that this wasn't the type of book that translates well into a movie. it's a good movie, but it doesn't live up to the book.
@@momomomo__ well said. I was so upset watching the movie, because the book was so well done. I think you're right about it not transferring to a screen well.
Which is why the book is better
I actually thought that the subtle acting choices in the movie reflected Snow's conflicting motives and selfishness (And being evil) really well. He always seemed to say what he thought others would want him to say/what benefits HIM the most. I felt like the absence of inner dialogue didn't bother me that much.
@@momomomo__that makes sense because I thought it was suppose to be him changing from good to evil when Lucy died. However I was a bit lost on what happened with him & Lucy at the end until I went on RUclips in the comment section to understand it better
your interpretation of the movie is literally perfect lol. the whole time i was watching the movie i was thinking “this dude is a literal psychopath” but for some reason my entire family kept blaming lucy gray for everything in the movie and saying she caused everything or betrayed him or something. it felt like they were watching a completely different movie!
That was my thoughts while reading the book. So incredibly torn and honestly it worried me
Idk why anyone would blame Lucy Gray. She didn't harm anyone for her own personal gain. It's okay to not like her, but very strange to paint her in a negative light that way. She didn't trust him because he killed Sejanus. What's to stop him from killing her?
It's kind of scary how many people don't see what are clearly red flags in others 😅
Yh the whole point of the story (real story not movie) is that he's a narcissist/psychopath, and also in the books, Lucy Gray is also kinda crazy a little. It's basically two crazy characters.
I guess audiences are always on the side of the protagonist, but I found her to be incredibly annoying throughout the entire movie. The singing and worrying about who he killed was unbearable. Like girl who cares, focus on your survival, and don't make enemies with the wrong people.
Alex intentionally mispronouncing Snow's name every time was hysterical in such a subtle way
Cesarean took me out
Its even funnier to me because that’s actually become such an insider in my friend group. After watching the movie I tried to summarize it for my friends but I couldn’t for the love of god say his name right. So in the end I just gave up and said smth like Corelelelele whenever his name came up and now it’s a whole thing
But Cleopatra was a whole new level of comedy omg
So Coriolanus is the name of one of the least-popular Shakespeare plays, actually. It's the story (Spoilers for a 400-year old unpopular Shakespeare play, I guess) of a general in the time of the Roman Republic who they are going to make a Senator, and as as part of the process, he's supposed to make nice and kiss the rings of the right people, and he's so prideful / based (depending on your point of view) he won't do it, and ends up insulting the wrong people so badly he gets banished instead. Then that pisses him off and he ends up working for the enemies of Rome, and then as he's got the city besieged, he realizes that means his new friends will probably kill his wife and kids and Mom (they come visit him and remind him of that fact), and changes his mind again and his new "friends" kill him.
So when I heard that was his first name, I thought it was going to be foreshadowing, but I really can't see his character being a good fit for the Shakespeare play. or vice-versa. Maybe the author just really thought this was going to be her least popular book in the series. Idk.
Viola Davis clearly had SO MUCH fun here and good for her honestly. She deserves to go absolutely insane for once after so many serious roles
she's such an amazing actor ❤
Heck yeahhhh......
She need much more witty villainous roles .It's suits her .And they don't need to make her hard. Like she can be like was here. Witty ,smart but Hella evil
Yeah she's the best part of the whole movie. Peter Dinklage did a great job too!
She does cause gods have mercy this film did NOT have any good writing or direction tbh.
Viola Davis ATE that role! she gave me the thrills, the excitement of what I expect from sinister people who are bound to be in the hunger games world exactly as how she portrayed it. honestly from my opinion, she is the only one who acted her role very brilliantly although the rest of the cast's acting wasn't really bad but hers just stood out the most to me.
I think that the character Lucy Gray was intentionally one dimensional. She's a mystery. That's the point. The story is about Snow and his spiral into evil. And she played her part.
"Goodbye Lucy Gray. We hardly knew you."
people expected her to be the katniss replacement without having read the last book
Or you can say she was one note 🎼
Honestly I feel like the majority of criticisms on both the film and movie especially Lucy Grays character relies on misconstruction from the audience. I do think all art can and should be criticized but it is frustrating how much goes over peoples head when to me it’s painfully obvious.
No it seems like they tried making her character multi dimensional but failed.
@@f.airy.x But that just means the film makers didn't do a good enough job in getting the message across.
Why does snow with shaved hair kinda look like slim shady
The real slim shady?
That was my first thought 😂
Paneminem
This is insane, like the duality of snow and sejeanus is wild. You got a district kid turned rich that wants to do the right thing and then the capitol poor kid trying desperately to to claw his way to the top
Fun fact: Lucy gray is named after a poem by Wordsworth called Lucy Gray, a girl who disappeared in a snowstorm. That’s what I found interesting about her character because she disappeared / died at the hands of President SNOW kinda what happened to the girl in the poem
I love this fact
And that's exactly encapsulates her entire character like she disappears and haunts snow to the end of his days (esp in the form of Katniss who might potentially be one of the Covey's bloodline) just like the Lucy Gray from the poem and I love that. The book does so much of this literary references that it was fun catching them plus the author's craft definitely got better since her hunger game days. As book at least, the story was very well-written
I think they even talked about this in the movie :)
@@katiebennet1036they talked about it in the book 😊
Isn't that the song she sings to him when they're by the river?
Yeah in the book Snow is a narcissist and it's very clear he only likes Lucy because he feels like he owns her. At the end he kinda realizes he can't control her and thus why he turns on her and goes on his dictator arc. It's made to be that he fears not having control and thus believes without control everything will fall apart.
President Snow is just a shitier version of Doflamingo, and I'd much rather refer to watch a film of Dressrosa in theaters and on dvd than the newest Hunger Games film.
Ohhh I'm only on episode 160, can't wait to see the Dressrosa arc! That said, I'm very happy to enjoy both the series and this movie, might as well enjoy both man :P @@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr
I should’ve read the book instead of watching the movie 🤦🏻♀️
17:58 They tried to fit a story that was 1.5 times the size of the entire Mockingjay book (Which was made into 2 parts for the movies). So, it’s a classic example of stuffing too much into a limited space. Had they made it 2 parts, or into a miniseries, it would’ve been much better.
They had the perfect opportunity to make it into three parts since the book also kinda has three parts, but Francis Lawrence was too traumatized from the hate he got for splitting up Mockingjay 😂
I agree. At the same time, people mocked the Mockingjay for being two parts which I think was stupid.
"Who's the third?"
*looks solemnly towards the distance*
"myself...."
"I know what you are"
*turns to face each other*
"say it"
"vampire"
Just a wild theory but do y’all think Coriolanus Snow could possibly be President Snow from the Hunger Games series with Katniss? 😳
...wait you mean he's NOT Slim Shady?
@@corywilson532No, I’m pretty sure that’s ol’ spaghetti boi
Wilder theory: Snow died and was replaced by a replicant.
You mean kantmiss
there’s absolutely no way!!!!!! they have different first names (coriolanus vs president) and president snow is way too old!! that theory is way too wild there’s no way i can believe it!
The actor for snow (Tom Blyth) said he used his eyes and expressions to convey snows inner dialogue, but it’s maybe not as clear to people who haven’t read the book. The scene in the hospital where snow is watching lucy gray sing for her interview and get donations he was feeling very jealous in the book because she was singing about another boy. Snow has an upset and angry expression on his face in that scene in the movie.
Didn’t he also feel overshadowed by her performance and that everybody was celebrating her but not him?
What this movie made me realize is that not a lot of people are good at reading others, because they’re comparing a visual movie to a book where it’s easy to portray inner monologue and it feeds you exactly what it wants you to think of a character, unlike a movie. I didn’t read the book but his intentions were clear to me, in the scene you mentioned he also seems confused as to why everyone was empathizing with Lucy, because he doesn’t understand the concept of empathy.
I personally didn't read the book and kinda knew he was the bad guy in the trilogie, and from the get go the character felt off in the movie. I think the actor did great. He was psycho from the start and we can see his mask crumbling thru the movie.
Like just from the start when he suggests the candidates being interviewed. He's "saving" the games and on the front it might be bc he wants to save Lucy but eh that was icky.
@@noxart2410 Yeah tom did great. Snow is a very charismatic character, in the book he thinks differently to what he says out loud because he’s always thinking of his image and how he is perceived by others. Tom used his mannerisms and facial expressions to convey snow’s inner dialogue and I think he did a great job! It’s just easier to spot for people who have read the book since they know what snow is thinking in each moment. Also he said this too! “Coryo comes back to the Capitol changed and I wanted to reflect that and leave viewers feeling like he was on the path now to becoming President Snow, so I slowed down his speech, used his consonants a little more precisely, and made his cadence a bit more calculated."
@@retrocinemass Yep, I'm rewatching the movie again and there are scenes where he glances at Sejanus and you just see his disdain! Or the scene at the lake where he's watching Lucy Gray and it's a mix of fascination and contempt. Then she looks at him and you literally see his face rearrange into neutrality. It's subtle but it's there.
I have something to add about the symbolism in this movie, because there is some. Snow's outfits gradually become a deeper red as he has more blood on his hands, he starts out in a bright red and ends in a burgundy color with the 4 people he killed. And in the og movies his suit is very dark red. Also I would like to say that he looked like Eminem when his hair got buzzed. Still hot tho
“Corinthians”, “Cleopatra”, “Cesarean Section” IM SHACKING STOP
The best thing about this video is Alex calling Snow everything except his actual first name
Its giving renesmee cullen lmao
I mean the easiest way to pronounce his name was adding k and l between oreo, change the e with i, then add anus at the back 😂 koriolanus / coriolanus
Cause it feels weird saying 'anus' every second
Reminds me of Dionysus in Percy Jackson lmao 🤣
I was looking for this comment haha
It's funny that you said that a narcissist would explain away his kills as not being his fault, because that's exactly what Snow does in the book! Especially with Sejanus, he twists it so far that he thinks of it as having given him a second chance at life (by saving him in the arena at first), but then it was obviously Sejanus' fault for "messing up" that chance lol
Yet he still says he killed three people, even in the book. To me it came across more like he's doing his best to convince himself he's not at fault so he wouldn't feel guilty, until killing finally became easy for him. It also seemed like at times he wasn't fully sure of the consequences of his own actions, which was really weird because he should have definitely been. If anything, the book just made him feel petty, stupid at times while young and actively choosing the worst moral path just for the sake of the family name, not necessarily narcissistic. I don't think Snow needed to be pure evil nor narcissistic, I definitely didn't get the impression that he was from the main trilogy, I'm just disagreeing that the book is exactly what Alex is talking about.
Katniss: e x i s t s
Snow: and I took that personally
This movie makes so much more sense when you read the book. The movie left out a couple important scenes (that helped with character building). There were also a few points that were kind of rushed cause, well, runtime, but the importance of a lot of things were overlooked (ie the compact from Coryo's mother). I do feel like they could have done some scenes better, like the scene in the woods with the jabbarjays and mocking birds after Coryo found the guns. They had the technology to make that scene as good as in the book (jabberjay scene from mockingjay part one with Catniss and Finnick) but for whatever reason, they didn't use it. The movie also didn't do a very good job highlighting Coryo's hate for mockingjays. It was a prominant theme in his character and helped us understand a part of why he hated Katniss so much, since she was called The Mockingjay. Also, the phrase "Snow lands on top." was delivered so poorly in this movie. The phrase was supposed to be more of a reassuring and/or victory phrase that the family used. In the movie, it just sounded like a cringy add in that video games use as a catch phrase with no real meaning.
Overall it was a decent movie but it could have been better.
Side note, Coryo had such a Cruella like villain origin story and I'm totally here for it.
Interestingly, that's one of the only things I liked about him. The phrase seemed like a talisman of sorts, which an arrogant bent would say with how he said it.
@@LesDrews I guess talisman is a good word. I had trouble finding the right working for how it was used in the books. I guess I just didn’t imagine him saying it so monotone.
I enjoyed this movie, but the main problem for me was purely because I hd already read the books, which allows you to have Snow's inner monologue.
Basically, he had bad qualities way from the start. He constantly talks about how Lucy Gray is 'his' and convinces himself she isn't technically district. He also hates how Sejanus bought his way to the capitol, considering him lower then everyone. When Arachne is stabbed, he immediately thinks that it would look good to run to her, instead of actually being upset.
Yeah, his line where Sejanus' mother is like "you're his only friend" and his response is "how sad, to have no friends." is hilarious. He has some of the most hilarious snarky lines but then has some really disturbing thoughts.
I watched the movie first and it's even more of a problem if you haven't read the book. Without his inner monolog it feels like a total character flip for no reason.
The book does a great job of making him seem so normal and personable for a hot minute and then he'll think something utterly batshit lol. The one that stuck with me the most was him wishing Lucy was back in the zoo where he didn't have to worry about her talking to other guys. Like wtf dude 💀
Not to mention how he spends SO LONG in chapter 1 just complaining about his grandma
wait now i really wanna read it😭
I think a lot of what made the book interesting was necessarily lost in the movie, by the nature of the medium. The book was told through exclusively Snow's perspective and things make a lot more sense when you're getting his inner thoughts. Lucy Gray is one-note because Snow is extremely narcissistic and isn't particularly interested in understanding her perspective. His "romantic" interest in her develops quickly because it's more obsessive and possession-based than truly romantic. His shift to working with Dr. Gaul also does not feel sudden in the book, because he was NEVER empathetic and things were always going to go this way since his environment reinforces his worst thoughts and traits. I think the actors try to play things to communicate that, but it's way more subtle and is easy to miss if you're not familiar with the source material. Really unfortunate, because I enjoyed the book quite a lot.
Edit: I commented too soon! This was just addressed at the end of the video, lol.
Yea I loved it bc I read the book so I was able to understand everything in the movie. If I hadn't read it, I might not have loved it so much tbh
@@sarar4270 Yeah, I saw the movie with my boyfriend who hadn't read the book, and there were things he was confused about similarly to Alex because he didn't have the grounding in the book. I felt bad, because he shouldn't have needed to read the book to enjoy the movie.
well we got pretty much 0 new information about lucy gray from the shots of her perspective, because the shots were what she was seeing. not what she was thinking or feeling. they were still from the perspective of snow.
I agree! I came out not liking the movie at all because I felt what made the characters and story so interesting was lost or thrown out in the film for the sake of time and making it look cinematic. It also felt super choppy and rushed, and a lot of key moments in the book were either taken out or changed too much.
@@monicaenglish2566I agree. I also personally feel like they tried to modernify the movie. I can’t place it exactly but whilst the sets/costumes/make-up are amazing, the script and acting feels like it’s trying to appeal too hard to a more mainstream audience.
Might just be me though.
Snow by Demenour and behavouir did have the mindset of ‘they brought it on themseleves’ I mean when he killed the mayors daughter he was like ‘yup I had to’ then he literally blamed it all on sejanus and then was like ‘but were brothers so don’t worry I’ll fix everything’ (knowing damn well he ratted sejanus to the capitiol like a week before - sealing his fate) and then in the arena after he killed the kid he was like ‘I had to’ and while he was betraying sejanus he was saying ‘your gonna get me killed just for knowing you’ (victimising himself and making it seem like sejanus is ‘forcing his hand’) implying that yes it is technically their fault for their own deaths even though snow was 100% responsible.
The joke about Gaul being the final form of a high school drama teacher had me crying 😭😭 why is that so accurate-
I love randomly opening youtube and finding alex complaining about a new thing
Edit: holy crap 2.5k likes thank you so much for finding my dumb commentary entertaining
Fr
Precisely 😂
Life couldn’t be better
Fr
Alex truly is one of the greatest
The love story makes sense (in my opinion). Snow views love as ownership and what he gets out of it. If she puts on a good show, he gets to become what he already pretends to be.
And she saved him because without him she'd absolutely be dead the next day. Her perspective of love is based on trust and by braking the rules to greet her upon her arrival, he showed her that she can trust him (as long as she's useful to him). Also he's very charming and good looking which always helps. And she's recently been through a bad break up.
I wouldn't necessarily call it a live story in the sense of what most people associate with love, but as a love story out of happenstance and dependency. That's why things fall apart quickly in the end as they don't depend on each other anymore
Yes, it makes a lot of sense. It seems that was the whole point of their relationship.
She is one note because the movie/book was from the prespective of a man that never cared to see the rest of her. He wanted her to be something, he painted an image of her in his mind,and became infatuated with the idea of being a hero, being powerful, being loved, and having the perfect wife at the Capitol all at once. He was never truly in love with her. And how quickly he shot her was proof of it. He'd end up killing her to tie up the loose ends which is what Lucy was rightfully afraid of. She's one dimensional because he never cared to know her deeply in any way
so yes the symbolism is way deeper if you really get into it. Songbirds and snakes represents lucy gray's nickname in the movie as "snows little songbird" and snakes represents Snow's toxic mentality and how he poisons everyone else's lives. the name Lucy Gray comes from a poem about a young girl in England who disappeared into snow and was never found, the poem doesnt describe Lucy very well and she is just a mystery to the reader and i think that's an element they wanted to keep when they didn't tell us everything about Lucy Gray Baird. Also its supposed to be from Snow's point of view so they dont go far into detail of characters that even he himself didn't seem to want to learn much about.
They went a little too far trying to make Snow seem empathetic in the beginning imo. He was in it to win, and then he was in for Lucy Gray, but he didn’t care about the other tributes or district people. That should have come through clearer (the food scene where he convinced Sejanus to bring food to the tributes was switched, in the books it was Sejanus who convinced Snow and I think that was better). Also I wish they’d leaned more on Snow not thinking of Lucy Gray as district, and wanting her to come to the Capitol with him. That was really important. In the movie it seemed like he would’ve been fine staying in district 12 with Lucy Gray when that wasn’t the case at all in the books, and his desire to return home and restore his family name (his “birthright”) was the most important thing to him.
He didn't like District 12 in the movie. In the scenes where he walks in the forest with the Coveys and later with Lucy Grey, you can see he's having a bad time with bugs. Having read the book, I thought the actor did a great job conveying everything the character was thinking through subtle acting, but I agree the direction didn't emphasis enough how much of his empathy and politeness is an act. Maybe if the camera had lingered more on his face when people called him a rebel (which he hated in the books) or every time he pretended to be friend with Sejanus, it would've shown something is off about him.
Honestly I feel like people are just too eager to project positive aspects onto a nice-looking young man. The movie basically starts with him popping off ideas to make the game worse. He doesn't do anything for anybody but himself and the tiny circle of people he cares about, which does not include his so-called best friend.
And also his first thought when he saw Sejanus trying to feed tributes is that he stole Snow's idea and now is trying to look better than him (Snow).
I really like you taking the time to say what you appreciate about the movie you're critiquing; often it feels like channels like this are just incessantly ragging on shows and movies without giving them any credit
This, one of my favorite parts of his channel besides the humor and the effort he puts in
For real!! He's funny and crass but also very insightful and well spoken. ❤
This is why his channel is the only movie channel I watch
“MY OLD SELF 😔🙁😖” IS TAKING ME OUT 😭😭😭😭
This is a movie where reading the book beforehand is really helpful. As a fan of the book, I was pretty pleased with the movie. But that’s because I knew what was going on in Snow’s head the whole time. Tbh, this was one of the best movies I’ve seen in a long time.
Beauty of Snow's character is that no big tragic event has happend that turned him evil. Most bad guys background stories are like that now in movies but Snow is unique because he doesn't have problems like any other person doesn't have he just choose to be immoral everytime because that IS his personality. I think that is really realistic kind of villain and very much backstory of most dictators and bad rulers in real life
This too like he’s genuinely just a bad person and that’s who he is. He has trauma but nothing that makes you understand why becoming a dictator and committing murder was the appropriate next step
@@f.airy.x That kinda bothers me though. Like people aren't just evil/bad. So if it' just born bad then why did this story need to be told? He was bad as Donald Sutherland and bad as a kid. Nothing to see here.
@@LesDrews that’s so so SO incorrect. I mean look at Ted Bundy. He himself said he has no serious trauma for doing what he did he was just a psychopath and a bad person.
@@LesDrewsI disagree, because I think some people ARE just bad/evil. However, I agree that there was no point in this story being told. I think it actually would have made sense if there was a downfall. Snow being evil the whole time makes this story pointless. It adds nothing to The Hunger Games story.
It's the Muzan and Sukuna way.
I read the book first so a lot of the movie made sense to me. I think the reason why Lucy Gray ran away from Snow was because they both realized that She was the last person who knew what Snow did, and Snow will do anything to get to the top.
I also want to add that I don’t remember them showing that Snow poisoned the vial that Highbottom drank from, so that was a little weird.
@@SilentReader-wr6pq That's pretty disappointing because I see it as one of bigest resemblances to President Snow, the fact that he poisoned his enemies and why his breath smells like blood, I really liked the easter egg
This really shoud have been a mini series. It needed time to really wrestle with snows inter dialogs, show the buildup in his and Lucy's relationship (and what it meant to him vs. What it meant to her), and flesh out what went down in district 12. He was ALWAYS a villain, he was possessive and manipulative and didn't care about others even when his actions got them hurt or killed. Everything he did was him trying to twist the people and happenings around him to have him come out the other side better off. It was done very well in the book.
In my English class we actually analyzed all 5 hunger games movies. The hunger games series is actually a retelling of Romeo and a Juliet. Lucy gray is actually based off of the character Lucy Gray from the poem Lucy Gray the girl who disappeared by William Wordsworth. All of the songs and stuff contain a lot of symbolism. From a movie perspective the movies kinda bad, from a literature perspective there’s actually a lot more to it
Personally I feel like Snows little episode in the forest was not handled well at all and I had to go google it to get satisfying answers as to why he reacted and acted the way he did. Turns out that in the books his character was a lot more disturbed and sinister throughout the story. and because you knew about his thoughts it was way better portrayed how he finally lost it, and that it wasn't a sudden thing at all but had quite the significant buildup. I suppose that's easier to get across in writing then. I did enjoy the film tho
Oh the entire book he's two faced and nasty.
In the book it's explained better lol Snow justifies his feelings for Lucy-Gray by saying she's actually Covey and not "True district" He's always been on the side of were better than the districts
This channel is great and I can't quite put my finger on it but something about that over the shoulder image of your little avatar sat in his arm chair with the popcorn and his feet up watching the clips just has me in hysterics. 😂
the one thing about this movie is that there’s so much content in the books to put into one movie, so everything feels rushed. especially snow and lucy gray’s relationship. like in the books they spent WEEKS getting to know each other, and that’s how they fall for each other. but in the movie it feels like 2 days.
Ngl, I feel like this is the Hunger Games book that could have worked as two films. There was enough content for it.
But they probably didn't do that because it wasn't popular with Mockingjay
The problem I have encountered with visual media is that most directors and writers cannot transcribe introspective and pensive characters onto the screen. In books, you have the context: The thought process, the road the character paved to reach that mindset, their beliefs, and values, but movies don't have that. So these characters whose actions are determined through their own internal mindset and not just a response to the environment look almost pathetic, because without their internal perspective, their actions just don't make sense.
Right
Jesus loves you and wants a relationship with you ❤
@@alysesmith9219dude...da FUQ?!
They really would have been well served by having coriolanus do voice overs every now and then especially in the last scenes.
I don't know why they didn't have at least a few of his internal monologue moments in the movie
hm IDK if it's a problem with filmmakers or with audiences, or maybe a bit of both. like I watched the first Hunger Games before i had read the book, and I had no issue with Katniss. she was a tough girl in a horrible situation who didn't show her emotions easily because she was used to having to perform strength and stoicness. I was quite surprised when a lot of folks said she was wooden and boring, but that by reading the book they understood her performance more. I think audiences are so used to seeing protagonists who are charming, dashing, quippy, basically Tony Stark, that when they see something not that, ESPECIALLY when it's a woman, it frazzles them and they call her "wooden". same thing with Captain Marvel. I never thought she was wooden, I thought she was sad and emotionally repressed :( and maybe that's a personal experience thing because I got called too sensitive so often when I was a kid I eventually stopped showing any feelings at all and stopped speaking, but it kind of blows that audiences can't identify with anyone who is too far outside the socially acceptable norms of human behaviour they've come to expect from protagonists.
I really wish they made 2 parts for this movie, like you said they crammed so many things into a 3 hour movie
The main reason they didn't is because of how much backlash they got for splitting Mockingjay into two parts so that's really the fanbases fault lol.
Also I feel like in terms of actual stuff happening(not just inner thoughts of Snow) the book wouldn't really be long enough for two movies, and they would have to start making up a lot of new scenes. Which could make the pacing and story better yes. But they could also annoy some audiences.
@@peppi5549 some of the book ppl would go WILD
Also, YA genre is already dead. It was popular in early 2010's because of Hunger Games. And then, you realise, the other YA movies are just copying Hunger Games with teens surviving in dystopian future like Divergent and Maze Runner.
Honestly, I feel like it would’ve worked best as a miniseries. Having multiple episodes would’ve gave the plot points so much more time to breathe, and it would even justify including the missing inner monologue from Snow in the book.
i read the book before seeing this movie and the book is fascinating. it portrays the story and particularly coriolanus’s growth and how he changed so well. i think the medium makes it difficult to portray the same message and for us to truly understand his character since the book is so philosophical and everything is about the way coriolanus thinks, which obviously you can’t see in a movie. as a book fan i enjoyed the movie a lot, specifically for the performances and cinematography. it was accurate and showed what i wanted to see on screen exactly how i wanted to see it. but i understand why non book fans would be confused or not enjoy it as much because you really need to read the book to get the full experience.
5:14
Me, a theater kid: 😀
One of my favourite things about this book has to be how main character everyone is like the principal who's spent like 20 years perfecting that "sound of snow falling" line, then coryos dad goes and dies so he's like damn it, I'll become a teacher so I can say it to his son eventually
Oh my god 😭
Giving Snape vibes
As a reader of the book, I think this was a great movie adaption. Not everything can be as fleshed out as it is in a 300-500 page book (different editions). They got the main events and plot points in the movie very well and precise. Lucy and Snow’s love story (if you can call it that) was also more fleshed out in the book, although it was mainly just shown through Snow’s obsessive thoughts about her. This is one of my favourtie films of 2023 and that may be bias since I love The Hunger Games
It's true that he was quite obsessive, whenever he called Lucy Gray "his" my skin crawled
I agree! I was very surprised by specifically the second half of the story being really well translated to film
I was honestly so impressed by how well done it was. I wish they shrunk the hunger games part a bit more and really fleshed out his decent into madness but it was honestly my favorite adaptation in a long time.
You failed to mention the song in the OG movies about the hanging tree is about snow and Lucy running away.
And before it was about Coriolanus and Lucy Grey, it was about Lucy Grey and Billy Taupe
In the books Coriolanus and Lucy’s first kiss was in the Zoo before the games. I wished the movie showed more of Coryo’s inner dialogue
Lucy Gray is one of my favorite characters ever written BECAUSE shes so one note. We see this girl who has so much about her but we never find out who she really is. Why? Because Snow only sees her as such. Its like we are seeing a memory of Lucy Gray and not the actual person she is and I think that is phenomenal writing
"This guy who... Does whatever he does."
Most accurate description of a President.
I am just gonna say... This Snow character is one of the best on screen explanation of what psychopath is.
.
None of those killings spree movies, socially numb characters. This snow is 'how' psychopaths are irl. I dont read the book (i follow just the movies), so if it was on purpose, i applaud the them for it.
Alex: Wait they're in love now?! They put you in a cage, he gave you a cookie. That's all it takes? I've been doing things the wrong way for years!
Such an underrated sound byte. I had to pause I was laughing so hard
The use of music in the hunger games has always been important. The original movies just didn't include it enough. Music has historically been used in times of struggle to heal people and used in rebellion to restore hope and make voices heard. The exploration of musics importance in ballad of songbirds is genius, and it always angers me to see people make fun of it and say it wasn't necessary.
I think it’s one of those unfortunate situations where the background and symbolism are better than the actual product. Like the imagine of rebellion in the lens of movie magic should be incredibly strong. But a single character randomly bursting into song is not something that really works for real people who happen to be the entire audience. It was always gonna be tricky to get the right feeling from that.
I thought you were going to mention the repurposed themes in this movie from the trilogy. That was something I found incredibly intriguing while I watched this the first time. To your point, I absolutely loved the use of music in the movie I since it made the districts feel more relatable.
"Cleopatra Snow"
"Ceasarian Section Snow"
"This movie has the nuance of Paw Patrol"
😂😂😂
Really great video Alex! I laughed a lot.
I was waiting for Alex to call him cornflackes Snow
@@abcdef6450 haha that's great
Corinthians Snow
@@TheEleventhElven haha it's giving:
1Corinthians 1:1-3
1 Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
This is why the book is generally better. We get more of Snow’s direct thoughts on situations. More is explained and drawn out. The question is sorta always “Was Lucy REALLY ever herself? Was she really ever in love with Snow? Or was it all an elaborate ruse to keep herself alive that went on a bit too long after she actually won?” And truly, some of that can be asked of Snow. At what point did he choose his future over Lucy? Was it always the case and he was just good at hiding it or did he truly love her the entire time and was wrestling with his plans and couldn’t find a balance? At what point did his shift happen? Did Lucy know from the start the type of man he was and used him? Or hoped he’d change?
The most glaring issue is the ending, in my opinion. The scene makes it seem like Lucy led him to the guns. Like she had put them there herself. The actress even performs the scene oddly that makes us suspect her. And then she disappears and the ending takes place and Snow “goes crazy”. It all seems like “what the actual fuck just happened?” Was Snow the villain the whole time? Was Lucy the villain until she noticed who Snow really is? Or are they both shitty people using each other? But in the book, we read his feelings. We read that he has just stumbled upon the gun that could ruin his life and now he has a way out. A way back to the capital. A way back to his plans to be who he always wanted to be. And Lucy sees this. She sees that shift and immediately recognizes that she is absolutely fucked and the only one standing in his way. That is why the ending takes place the way it does. Granted, Lucy knew she was lied to quite a bit earlier and she went cold to him because honesty is huge for her. The book just executes all of this so much better. In the movie the ending just comes off as weird and makes it seem like Snow initially had no plans to leave Lucy whereas the book showcases his commentary and we understand things so much better. Both of those characters were never truly doing what they said they were. Some say Lucy was just as dirty as Snow. Others say she wasn’t. It’s purposefully left ambiguous. Just like the question of “did she really live?” Is left open, for the most part.
I'm pretty sure the songbird is in reference to Snow because he used a songbird to tell on his friend, and Lucy is the snake because of the snakes in the game but also she tries to hurt/kill? him with a snake at the end. I could be misinterpreting but I don't think it has to do with their names
the movie needed to work in the inner monologues of snow better. like in the cabin scene they have lucy say "except for me" when talking about his loose ends. but in the book she would never say that and trigger him more. he thought of it on his own. he was truly spiriling like never before here. the entire end in the forest is just pages and pages of him desending into full blown paranoia. and it adds to his character "switch" and how it's not a switch at all. no one "made him turn". no one did anything he just always thought this way of the world and people in it and it was slowly trickling out until finally he let it all flow.
16:44 haven’t watched the movie, but that was how Snow thought in the books. He blamed himself killing the tributes and the mayor’s daughter on Sejanus, and he blamed himself killing Sejanus on Sejanus, deciding he was so reckless he would have ended up dying anyway. And in the he decides that him trying to kill Lucy was self defense because she was planning to kill him
I read the book right before watching the movie and was so frustrated by how much important detail they left out. Like with all book to movie conversions, nothing makes sense to viewers who don't read. I was so excited for this because I really enjoyed the original movies but this missed the mark for me.
I wish they chose a good actor for lucy.
Actually most of the fans of the book do agree that the third act was too rushed and that a part two would've been better. But since the director was the same guy from the last two movies and that wasn't well recieved at the time he decided to do ALL the book in 1 movie. But yeah, to me there's DEFINITELY a feeling that this movie was too long and too short at the same time (loved it, but as a reader I felt they cut some stuff that showed better how Snow was actually resentful and manipulative the whole time and not some "nice guy-suddenly turned evil")
Edit: PLUS his relationship with Lucy is super rushed cause the first part is supposed to happen in like 2 weeks not 3 days lol
Only difficult thing about splitting the movie into 2 parts is that there really isn't enough action in part 3 of the book/snow as a peacekeeper to justify a whole nother 2.5 hours of film, you know? And you can't split it during the actual games, either
I actually liked this movie. Felt the 3rd part was a bit rushed but otherwise alright with the story and cinematography.
In my opinion the book is kinda like that too :/
I agree I loved it but the 3rd act did feel a bit rushed to me
Same dude. I had little expectations for this movie but after I watched it, I gotta admit. This movie did make me nostalgic of the YA dystopian movie era.
Also, this movie had a better villain origin story than Cruella
I would say that the way they introduced lucys singing in the beginning was pretty cringe the first time i watched it. It felt out of place because the entire scene leading up to her singing lacked any emotion, so her singing was almost comedic. So i can understand people who havent watched the book finding it unnecessary
snow had one failed situationship and decided to take it out on the whole world
“CESAREAN SECTION SNOW” LMAOOOO ALEX💀
i was looking for this comment🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, basically, all the characters aside from snow are one note in the book bc it's from his perspective, and it's intentional to show how he views everyone and everything as simply something to control to get his way. I understand for a movie that kinda needs to be changed for the sake of entertainment. But it was used well in the book to give it that eerie feeling that snow always has looming around him. Seeing how he truly feels about the people he's presenting to like. He never acts like he's truly sejanus' friend, but for some reason, his capital classmates and even the audience of the movie think they are "best friends". When in his head the entire book all he can think about is how much he resents him, how sejanus is a representation of everything snow wants yet hates at the same time. It's brilliant in the book it's a shame the movie couldn't find a way to work in the inner monologue
Honestly, I do understand a bit just because in the books there is few characters he’s truly himself around so it’s very hard to show how evil he really is just because like the people around him the audience is falling for his deceit because we can’t see beyond the facade he lets on at the start
I KNOW THE RELATIONSHIP SEEMED SO RUSHED. The book was so much better but they can't make a movie days long soo I kind of get it 😭
i just watched a vid from like 6 years ago and the animation on this channel has come so far omg 😭
I don't understand why people say that they found Snow to be inconsistent or sth. Even weirder is the claim "How did he go from empathetic to psychopath?". He was never empathetic, there was no big corruption because he did not start the movie as a good person.
He talks badly about Sejanus to fit in but also pretends to be his friend. He wants to use the vulnerability od district people to make the show more engaging to keep it running because it will get him his scholarship - even if it will mean death games for children for more than 70 years.
If people think those things are too subtle to understand that he is not a good or empathetic person, you wouldn't even see it if it was written in bold read on his forehead.
He also doesn't really love Lucy, at least definitely not the way Peeta loves Katniss. He feels something because she was the first selfless person (perhaps aside from Tigress) he met who treated him well and helped him, when she could've run. She is also someone desirable, someone loved by the audience so she is prestige for him. She is free-spirited and he wants to own her.
When he follows her to district 12 it's not out of love - it's because he has nothing left, nothing he can own, if he doesn't go there. When they talk at the lake and when he gets the offer to go to district 2, it is plain obvious that he loves the prestige of the capitol more (desires it more) than Lucy because while he wants to take her with him, he would not stay in district 12 with her and rather leave without her.
He was never a good guy. He just went from a conflicted narcissist and opportunist to a bad person who is sure of what their doing and believe it to be justified.
And btw I did not read the book, I understood this from watching. Everyone I went with did.
It's strange and concerning. People just don't seem to have good judgement when it comes to red flags. I never read the books but clearly he was not OK since the beginning. Did people miss that he's not just fine with the games but constantly coming up with ideas to make them worse? That he wrote a whole essay on it after a classmate was killed, while his school partner was crying all night like a normal person?
Couldn't have said it better myself
This is coming from someone who never cared to read the books and just watch the movies. Details are clearly missed out and what readers already know gets filled in when the movie lacks in explaining. A reader has a harder time seeing the problem with the adaptation and a viewer doesn’t understand a lot of what’s going on. I never saw snow as a bad guy until the end. I’m not seeing in inner thoughts. Blame poor directing, because that’s the biggest issue. I have no hate towards the books. I’m now aware that they’re much better. I personally don’t care to read them because the movies didn’t do a well enough job. Harry Potter got me to read the books when I was just a kid, and those are completely different than the movies.
@@JayziahRoyal I’m not claiming that it’s the same as the books or that it’s better. I didn’t read the books either, remember?
But I am not oblivious to the bad actions Snow shows right from the start. And if people don’t see them even after I listed them, then I really don’t know what you’d need to see it.
Like, he is literally part of the discussion of whether the games should be abolished and he decides to advocate for keeping them and making them, children killing children, more entertaining? And that’s not supposed to be bad? In what world? And that’s the beginning of the movie.
I don't think people really think Snow was a good person, I just think the movie did a shit job in properly flushing out his actions as shitty or as a conflicted narc especially considering the environment where all of the capitol sees the district members as like second citizens to the point where it is best not to be seen with em. So when his sister says to get Lucy's trust and give her more empathy after he says all he wants to do is win. He takes a second to think about it and next scene he goes to train to give Lucy a rose where the audience has no fucking clue what his intentions were. Did he go to get her trust and have her sing to win or to get to know Lucy because she is a human and realized she was right? So when he shows up with a flower and decides to go to the train to get her trust I can see how audience can interpret that as empathetic especially going out of his way to be seen with her on television.
Another example would be when Snow said to Sejanus "do you think they would give those kids scraps if they don't have a reason to do it" makes it seem like his recommendations for the hunger games was to help the kids involved through using incentives he knew would convince the game master. Where then after Sejanus saying the "Capitol would kill me" after seeing the cruelty of how they treat the districts Snow then calls for action by sneaking food to the tributes risking a possible violation. Where even Sejanus calls him a rebel so I can see why most audience can interpret Snow's actions as heroic or empathetic by "rebelling." In the book Sejanus was the one who convinced Snow to give food and not the other way around.
Due to how rush the movie was and poorly acted the movie was, when Snow was told he was exiled he seem like he did not even stress about it so once he was in the process of placement and asked to be sent to district 12 I can see people initially interpreting to be done out of love where the audience only gets to see Snow did not really give af abt her when he gets the offer. There really is not any core indicators if Snow's feelings for Lucy was legitimate it only snatches the rug the part of the movie. I believe it would have helped a lot to have a better pacing to show more signs of his disregard and need for winning other than unclear actions, I say unclear because imo they can be interpreted either way.
This is more so the writer than the movie, but I think it's quite ironic how Snow's big idea was to 'humanise' the victims...er, contestants...to keep the games going, only for Katniss to come along and use that same technique to bring down the games (and Panem itself)
avoiding coriolanus's name is like avoiding renesmee's name and its funny every time
well no wonder snow is a sociopath
I was lowkey in love with the movie bc I read the books. They kept it as true to it as they could. I still love to watch your videos though Alex bc ur hilarious
They really could've added more tbh. This movie was pretty rushed to me.
Especially the snow inner dialog to give more context to his actions
@@annamariejones2837 I NEED the 4 hour version
@@annamariejones2837 the movie was originally gonna be 3hrs long but they had to cut it to 2hrs. because its too long i guess. I hope they release the directors cut soon 🥲
@@clippy4208I'd love to see a directors cut 😭😭😭
Your critique of not seeing enough or getting enough information about Lucy Grey is 100% true but that’s the point because the story is only in Snow’s perspective so you only get what Snow sees or cares about. He never cared about Lucy just about having her in a possessive way
I thought Snow was suppose to be a brilliant strategist. If that's what they were going for then he'd at least find out more about her as a point of strategy.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 this is a young, poor and desperate Snow who is very good at manipulation and quick yet careful with his words. This Snow becomes a master strategist but this story really compares his own life in the parallels of the hunger games as a survivor trying to use his tools at hand to handle the constant things that don’t go to his plan. In fact in the book really the only time Snow really slips up is when he truly opens up and is vulnerable with Lucy saying “threes enough for me” and then not know how to respond to her question about it. I don’t think he really cares who Lucy is just how she makes him feel and what he gains from possessing her
@@jeremiahnoar7504 He's a narcissist. He assumes everyone is like him, especially the people he likes. Otherwise he wouldn't like them. This is also why he thinks the games are necessary; he's a terrible person who assumes everyone else is terrible too.
I think the fact that we get so little about lucy gray is cause it's from snow's perspective and he's a very.... self serving man that doesn't actually get to know lucy besides the songbird pedestal that he puts her on.
The movie actually gives her a more sense of character than the books cause the book is purely in snow's inner monologue & veiwpoint
your confusion at who snow is when there's 22 minutes left in the film was so real!!! I read the book and watched the movie in tandem thinking "wow, if I didn't have the book's introspection I would be totally lost here"
I feel it does give some context as to why Snow hates Katniss so much. She reminds him of Lucy Grey. The Mockingjay pin reminds him of not only the bird he used to betray Serjanus but it was the creature that allowed Lucy Grey to escape from Snow. The song "The Hanging Tree" which Lucy Grey sang became the song of the rebellion Katniss was leading. Katniss is a reminder of his crimes that got him where he is.
how did a mockingjay allow lucy grey to escape?
@@jac7198 A group of Mockingjay mimicked her singing The Hanging Tree as Snow was looking for her so he could kill her in the woods.
We didn't need the context. She was a threat to the Capitol and he was smart enough to see it before most people, that was all we needed. Making it all about a girlfriend he had decades ago for a few weeks/months takes away from his character, making him seem pathetically petty instead. It also make it seem like Katniss' actions were not remarkable in their own right to get under his skin, but just an annoying reminder of past events that affected him more.
Edit: Also it gets laughable at some point just how many connections to Katniss are made. The mockingjay pin and the song you can kind of explain historically, even if it's a bit of "well, it sure is a coincidence that's what Katniss randomly chose". But out of every possible plant, Lucy just had to talk about katniss, not even referring to it with the more popular name? Yeah, that's not forced at all...
Katniss didn't remind Snow of Lucy Grey, she reminded him of himself, Peeta reminds him of Lucy Grey
@@louisecram2616"at what point did he realise the depth of your indifference towards him?" "I'm not indifferent towards him." "don't lie, you promised!" (...) "I don't want to kill you I want us to be friends" gets another meaning then.
The fact he walked away during pure as the driven snow drives me crazy because he was so touched in the book he started crying
I like how your take is the literal thing the books tell. Snow is a narcissist and doesn’t even feel bad when people die because of him. He justifies it somehow to make himself feel not guilty about it. The books are, as you said, a lot clearer about that. That’s why I really enjoyed watching the movie after reading the book. It was like a bonus with visuals.
9:03 incredible use of Trogdor. You have earned my everlasting respect.
And the Trogdor comes in the night!
I have an unhealthy obsession with this film 😭 Even having read the book, i really enjoyed it more than the others for some reason. Love the content, Alex 🫶🏾
same i cant stop watching edits about it 😭
Reading the book after the movie, there are just things that the movie did so much better. I think the book is great if you want to learn more about the history of PANEM and more scenes of Lucy Grey and Snow
Alex inspires me.. My parents said if i get 70K followers They'd buy me a professional camera for recording..begging u guys , literally
Begging..
@@agirlwithablog3579 I agree! Most book to film adaptations are generally seen as bad because of the amount of information that tends to be omitted, but I think the movie had a rather healthy balance :) There are things I wish I could have seen in the movie, but there's only so much that can be done. After all, the film is like 2.5 hrs haha. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
i REALLY loved the songs and Snow?? he fell down in the cage he fell DOOWWWWWWN in the cage.
I LOVED THIS MOVIE SM, but i don't understand how it was 12+ in my country and it was more violent and dark than the fnaf movie that was 15+ 💀 (Im from Slovakia)
EXACTLYYYY
@@Dakota_The_Apollo_Kid REAL
All of the movies are pretty dark, but considering the original movies deal with someone who leads rebellion against the Capitol, it's more hopeful than the new movie.
Flickerman wishing it was candy and then his reaction always makes me laugh!
Love the use of Trogdor.
Gotta love how Alex sums up a 3 hour movie into 20 minutes
Great movie!!! So many small details in the movie but my favorite has to be Tigris mentioning early on that she hates snows dad and then at the end saying that snow looks really nice, a lot like his father
16:40 the way that in the book that is EXACTLY snows thought process. Like he fully blames everyone for their own deaths, he takes no accountability and doesn’t see himself as in the wrong for anything. Thats why he gets so mad at sejanus because he doesn’t have any empathy for district people and thinks that sejanus is stupid for not acting in his own self interest
The movie was good but, as always happens when THG books are adapted to the screen, we miss on a lot of things bc huge parts of the story and character development happen through the narration and inner thoughts from our protagonists (Katniss and Snow).
The film portrays Snow as a tragic young man who just wants to give his family a better life but has no option but to be selfish and cruel in order to survive.
Book Snow is a SoaB from the very start. Literally the first chapter is him waiting for Tigris to come back with his dad's shirt, and he starts wandering how could Tigris make it look better if they have no money to buy fabric or any materials, so he assumes he had to sell herself in order to acquire this stuff and instead of being saddened or ashamed at the thought of his cousin doing something so awful, he decides that, although ugly, Tigris' naivety may attract some... clients.
Like... this guy's a dick from the get go, and it's the same with Lucy Gray. Since she's District, everyone in the Academy talks about her and the other tributes like they're property and Snow truly believes she's an object that belongs to him. When she sings in television, her song insinuates she did some SW back at 12 in order to survive and Snow just blocks the thoughts of her being associated with SW bc that doesn't fit the image of her he has created. And bc he just sees her as property, in the end is so easy for him to leave the memory of her behind.
As for Lucy Gray, you said it yourself, she's a performer. When she noticed Snow was interested in her she probably feigned to reciprocate those feelings in order to survive bc it's easier for her Mentor to be interested in keeping her alive if he's interested in her. She probably did end up liking Snow bc of how he risked his own life to help her several times, but she was still unattached enough that she gtf outta there the moment she realized he was not what it seemed.
one of my biggest criticisms of the movie is that in the book, it’s told from snow’s POV, so we get all his inner thoughts and feelings. so the truth we learn in the books is that he’s been selfish from day 1, and no matter his actions, it’s never betterment of others but always for himself. everything he does is to benefit him. but we don’t get that in the movie, so some of his actions seem so out of character even though they make sense with the book explanation.
i hate that people who watch only the movie see it as "snow going from an empathic teen to who he becomes" when the book makes it clear from literal page 2 that he is not at all an "empathetic teen" he has always struggled with the line between good and evil he just learns to choose the evil side as the story unfolds. it's an exploration of human nature and political theory (the exact theories are directly quoted at the beginning of the book). and the movie makes the tiniest changes that make him seem more empathetic probably for the sake of getting audiences to care more. like he doesn't come up with the idea of feeding the tributes sejanus is bringing food to marcus and snow follows along to make himself look better, when the classmate gets stabbed with the bottle he's literally has to be yelled at by lucy to go do something and he has an entire debate in his mind about how that's a great idea bc the cameras are on and it would make him seem like a great guy to the capital citizens watching. he does have moments of humanity of course. he is empathetic to a degree. which just adds to the fact that he isn't some mustache twirling cartoon villain. he is a demonstration of what real world politicians that impliment harmful policy are like.
As someone who only watched the movie I don't vet why people call him empathetic. The only thing he really does out of empathy is how he cares for Tigris. All other actions benefit him. Lying about his wealth, becoming a mentor, trying to save Lucy Grey, saving his friend (forgot the name), ... . All just to get him where he wants to be. He's selfish from the start. But I think because he's pretty people expect him to go from hero to villain
I felt like this was one of the movies you enjoyed more if you read the books. Usually Im over critical of book adaptations becuase things are not the way I imagined them to be but in this case it felt like you knew the inner monologue because of the books and could therefore fill the empty spots if that makes sense. I do get why the movie is not as enticing to people who havent read the books though. One thing I still notice that they kind of changed, is that they made snow seem nicer and more empathetic in some ways to make his change more drastic which overall doesnt make sense though because this story was in its nature never supposed to be about a traumatic backstory making someone evil
I can’t believe Eminem turned evil
"cesarean section Snow" 😂 all these names Alex came up with just to avoid saying the character's actual name had me dying.
my favorite part of this movie was at 11:02 because it's basically "we're both murders let's make out" lmfao
It's funny how you mention at the end that "a narcissist would think... Blah blah." Because that is 100% what Snow was thinking in the book. And I was curious how it would translate on screen when you couldn't hear his inner monologue.
In the book what Snow THINKS and what he says/does are VERY different. He is a self serving narcissistic robot on the inside, but on the outside he pretends to care and have empathy. But I didn't know how they'd demonstrate that two faced nature in a movie (I haven't seen the movie)
Honestly, I kinda liked the movie
You totaly need to read the Book. Its from Snows PoV and its so clear he is an evil narcissist BUT the book is somehow able to make you want him to win. But also you want realy badly to punch him. 😊
The amount of times I caught myself wondering if Snow was actually right and justified while reading the book was scary