Ironically, the trident/Ratrig is actually generally better for speed. The flying gantry has it's own slop to account for that a fixed gantry doesn't have. As far as things "getting better" as you get higher, it also gets worse on flying gantry as you go up as you stated, but the fact that it's always got the slop, it's worse over all. The Voron 2.4 does look insanely cool though even if it's not able to reach the same accels.
Properly tensioned Z belts of reputable quality are not going to have virtually any slop... Though it would be completely valid to say that tensioning all four belt pillars properly--and equally--is far more difficult and error-prone than a fixed gantry design.
thx, very interesting. I have the ender v2 a few months, would like to build a ratrig, maybe minion. But i have little knowledge of, installing software or about electronics :-) ... you think it's ok to go for it? thx!
Nice video and what i wanted to see, but just a suggestion .. with constant hand smashes while talking is very very distracting to the point for me that i had to switch the video ..
If the movement doesn't affect print quality then it's not an important point of comparison. It seems to me that the complexity calibration and maintenance of the flying gantry on the voron versus the mobile bed on the ratrig would be a good place to dig in on a comparison
I would say not too much maintenance on the voron 2.4, just make sure belts are calibrated correctly and the flying gantry levels itself very quickly. There is also voron trident which is like ratrig setup too.
I was considering a ratrig vcore 3.1 500mm. I never thought about this issue. Would running some weights on the bottom like a washing machine? So on the bottom, would it be possible to insert a floor and place a slab of concrete to keep the weight at the bottom?
I decided for the RatRig VCore 3.1 500 (just ordered it a few days ago). As I have a niche with 1 by 1 m² to place it, I will anchor it to the walls at the top and the bottom, so I do not think the center of gravity will matter. Anyway, the Voron 2.4 is not an alternative if >350 by 350 is needed (there is the Voron-inspied Jennyprinter 650, but it is to big to pass through doors). One advantage of the VCore (and the Trident) design is the ability to do modifications later on. For example a toolchanger is much more easy to add if the xy-gantry keeps on one level - else any toolchange would need to move the xy gantry to the top or the toolbay down to the actal z-hight. Also if you want to test other xy-gantrys - like crossing rods - it's much more easy with the xy not moving up and down.
I've been waiting for a video like this, it's a pretty good comparison. How was the build time and complexity? It sounds to me like the choices are a lightweight machine that vibrates with taller prints, and has rail slop on a moving gantry, or a beefier machine that might wiggle with short parts. One solution is to add a brick or two to the tops of them. I'd be very surprised if that didn't solve the vibration issue with both of them. (But it will help the RR more, because the flying gantry will always have more play that won't go away.) I'd lean towards the RR due to the three-point bed mounting. It just seems more properly engineered, and less over constrained with reliance on system slop.
I recommend Voron 2.4 if you wait until i put out some klipper tutorials or figure it out yourself, ratrig is much easier on the software side and assembly also very good choice.
The ratrig v3.1 is actually a better printer, can achieve much faster speeds without ringing due to the beefier 3030 extrusion. Note that the poster of this video seems to have it sitting on cardboard strips, I am guessing because the rubber feet are not installed, this isn't go do any favours for stability when the bed is at low Z. I would also advise the 400mm version with the 2.0 enclosure, this adds height and weight to the printer which give added stability.
Home Z, then do a puge line close to the endstop pin, Then re home Z. that way the purge line cleans the nozzle. No need for any fance purge bucket+nozzle brush setup.
OR...just do the homing when the nozzle is cool. A hot nozzle doesn't affect your z or qgl. Better would be an out of the box solution, instead of a problem.
This is good info. I never really thought about the printhead on the top vibration vs having it at the bottom. I am gearing up for a Voron build and I think the probe is a good idea. It is a good video but I have to say your hand is a little distracting. Reminded me of this ruclips.net/video/vEjgqJzCzK0/видео.html Loved the info and it is good advice for a Voron, though I do like the idea of bed mesh even if it is a little un-necessary and overkill.
There are people who doesn't want any fiddling and there are people who gets printer to print upgrades
Have you seen how much Bambu X1C is shaking while printing? It is like old washing machine…
Ironically, the trident/Ratrig is actually generally better for speed. The flying gantry has it's own slop to account for that a fixed gantry doesn't have. As far as things "getting better" as you get higher, it also gets worse on flying gantry as you go up as you stated, but the fact that it's always got the slop, it's worse over all. The Voron 2.4 does look insanely cool though even if it's not able to reach the same accels.
Properly tensioned Z belts of reputable quality are not going to have virtually any slop... Though it would be completely valid to say that tensioning all four belt pillars properly--and equally--is far more difficult and error-prone than a fixed gantry design.
@@sasca854 they also can't be as rigid either or the gantry can't twist to level.
thx, very interesting. I have the ender v2 a few months, would like to build a ratrig, maybe minion. But i have little knowledge of, installing software or about electronics :-) ... you think it's ok to go for it? thx!
Nice video and what i wanted to see, but just a suggestion .. with constant hand smashes while talking is very very distracting to the point for me that i had to switch the video ..
If the movement doesn't affect print quality then it's not an important point of comparison. It seems to me that the complexity calibration and maintenance of the flying gantry on the voron versus the mobile bed on the ratrig would be a good place to dig in on a comparison
I would say not too much maintenance on the voron 2.4, just make sure belts are calibrated correctly and the flying gantry levels itself very quickly. There is also voron trident which is like ratrig setup too.
I was considering a ratrig vcore 3.1 500mm. I never thought about this issue. Would running some weights on the bottom like a washing machine? So on the bottom, would it be possible to insert a floor and place a slab of concrete to keep the weight at the bottom?
It's not really an issue for actually printing, only if going pretty fast.
The Voron for 'my' needs is fine. Fixed bed.
Have a Delta printer for the tall stuff.
Cheers.
I decided for the RatRig VCore 3.1 500 (just ordered it a few days ago). As I have a niche with 1 by 1 m² to place it, I will anchor it to the walls at the top and the bottom, so I do not think the center of gravity will matter. Anyway, the Voron 2.4 is not an alternative if >350 by 350 is needed (there is the Voron-inspied Jennyprinter 650, but it is to big to pass through doors).
One advantage of the VCore (and the Trident) design is the ability to do modifications later on. For example a toolchanger is much more easy to add if the xy-gantry keeps on one level - else any toolchange would need to move the xy gantry to the top or the toolbay down to the actal z-hight. Also if you want to test other xy-gantrys - like crossing rods - it's much more easy with the xy not moving up and down.
so at the end you prefer the Voron or the RatRig...?
I've been waiting for a video like this, it's a pretty good comparison. How was the build time and complexity?
It sounds to me like the choices are a lightweight machine that vibrates with taller prints, and has rail slop on a moving gantry, or a beefier machine that might wiggle with short parts.
One solution is to add a brick or two to the tops of them. I'd be very surprised if that didn't solve the vibration issue with both of them. (But it will help the RR more, because the flying gantry will always have more play that won't go away.)
I'd lean towards the RR due to the three-point bed mounting. It just seems more properly engineered, and less over constrained with reliance on system slop.
good info, im thinking on buying one of those machines?what do yo recomend a voron 2.4 or a v core 3.1?
I recommend Voron 2.4 if you wait until i put out some klipper tutorials or figure it out yourself, ratrig is much easier on the software side and assembly also very good choice.
The ratrig v3.1 is actually a better printer, can achieve much faster speeds without ringing due to the beefier 3030 extrusion. Note that the poster of this video seems to have it sitting on cardboard strips, I am guessing because the rubber feet are not installed, this isn't go do any favours for stability when the bed is at low Z. I would also advise the 400mm version with the 2.0 enclosure, this adds height and weight to the printer which give added stability.
what is the more stable printer for high speed ?
They should both have or not have the enclosure, because that helps a lot with the rigidity.
wow....good point. Never heard anyone point that out before.
I knew that voice sounded familiar, you are the High On Android guy! Glad to see we share similar interests with printing as well as Android phones 😁
Home Z, then do a puge line close to the endstop pin, Then re home Z. that way the purge line cleans the nozzle. No need for any fance purge bucket+nozzle brush setup.
OR...just do the homing when the nozzle is cool. A hot nozzle doesn't affect your z or qgl.
Better would be an out of the box solution, instead of a problem.
Cold filament will mess up z switch as it trips on filament. Need clean or purge first, or hot filament,but never cold.
You need to probe hot.. that way it melts that bit stuck to the nozzle
Yeah then u get filament oozing all over. Better to use probe.
The RatRig would be a whole lot more rigid if it had side panels.
Good info again. Thanks!
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Bolt the printer to a wall and solve the frame vibrating problem :D.
I don't like drilling holes into the wall so much hehe.
@@3dPrinterSchool says no man ever who builds things.
more ratrig videos pls!!
This is good info. I never really thought about the printhead on the top vibration vs having it at the bottom. I am gearing up for a Voron build and I think the probe is a good idea. It is a good video but I have to say your hand is a little distracting. Reminded me of this ruclips.net/video/vEjgqJzCzK0/видео.html Loved the info and it is good advice for a Voron, though I do like the idea of bed mesh even if it is a little un-necessary and overkill.