Except that no game developer would work this hard on a PC game. It's not like there's a secret switch in CGA that enables this. This is all done with a lot of precisely timed assembly code and register stuffing and it breaks on all but authentic hardware. Everyone else would be writing stuff the way the manuals tell them to.
This remains my gold standard for 8088/CGA demos, and probably always will. I love bringing the delight and amazement to my friends, in pointing them to this masterwork of yours and your comrades-in-demo, Mr. Leonard.
Haha, no one seemed to complain about the loud 16.5 kHz tone that starts at 6:56 =) Truly jaw-dropping demo; really clever tricks to bring out this kind of performance from an old IBM 5160! Wish I was there!
Tried this on my model 25, expecting it to not work at all honestly since it's MCGA. Made it to about 1:25, and got stuck there, wouldn't advance to the next parts, but the music kept playing and part of the effect was running and animating.
The ultimate complement. We were being told to fuck off in other languages too if you understand polish, russian, etc. One of the best nights of my life.
I understood that as "Fuckers!", and I think it was shouted in amazement, because he thought it was going to be something particularly lame, but then figured he'd be put on the wrong foot, and we did something cool that he did not expect. So I see it as a compliment.
this is probably the same guy who said "ja pierdolę" after the demo ended. it could mean a million things in my language depending on the tone, but in this case it's basically "holy shit" ;)
+Hans ‘Shockwav3’ Meier Well, I think only a small part of the audience would be familiar with CGA and its limitations in colours. A much larger part knows the BTTF movies :)
+Hans ‘Shockwav3’ Meier Well, considering that the PC demoscene didn't really get started until 286+ and VGA were already commonplace, we never expected a large part of the crowd to fully understand the IBM PC and its limitations. Which is also why we did that intro-sequence :) I am surprised at the response to the CGA tricks actually, both during the compo and in the online aftermath.
While the delivery system was a standard MOD, it is actually more like a SID under the covers due to the technical restrictions we were under. For example, every instrument in the MOD is 256 samples long.
@@julienbraudel7109 sorry, I misspoke. The beeping tunes were composed in monotone, a tracker for the PC speaker. The end tune was a mod file that used special 256 byte instruments, a limitation necessary for the engine to work.
Amazing! I wonder if this would have advanced pc graphics hardware sooner if all of this information was known back then or if it would have led to the pc to the eventual fate of the Amiga.
+Teng Chang One of the nicest comments I got was from a hardware engineer who told me that, had this come out in the early 1980s, it would have set hardware development BACK half a decade because it would have set higher expectations from programmers.
Jim, A question if I may. I have original IBM XT hardware with the IBM CGA graphics card. I run the demo (tried new and old cards in config) but don't get colour in the images like the DeLorean flying and the first roll down graphic after "PC SUXX" Any ideas?
yes there is a picture of CGA PCB in color, than is a settings screen that I can choose between 2 color settings and position of the screen and background color , but that hole screen is in black and white :( than the first picture with delorian car is in nice colors like it should be , than intel animation is in vcolor too, delorian screen too. but 1k 16/256 color demos are in black and white , and the girl and creators in the and :( 3D demo is in regular CGA colors, in the credits there is a color too but in strange way ( background is full with colorful "P"s
Very expensive demo to run, due to requiring original hardware. Glad that emulators are stepping up their game though! Maybe in the future that requirement will not exist!
Which is not too impressive, since an up-to-date DOSBox already does that. It's the Kefrens bars and the chipmod player that are most difficult to get correct, because they need cycle-exact CPU emulation.
Lets see how well this will run on my PC: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *This app can't run on your PC* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh...
@@JimLeonard Yeah main difference is that the 8088 has it's BUI was cut down from 16-bit to 8-bit. Funnily enough technically you can still run that Demo on a modern X86 machine. The problem is not the CPU core itself, but rather every other component like sound card that might compatibility issues.
Except that creating stuff like this is so difficult. Just because something can shown in a demo, doesn't mean that's practical to build a game around. Especially when the CPU is 100% occupied with cramming stuff in video registers.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
World's loudest PC speaker! :-)
I assume you can attach the PC speaker pins to any amp? XD
@@FlameRat_YehLon Essentially, yeah. If you know how to solder.
A hardware engineer told me that we would have set technology back half a decade had this come out in 1982.
Dammit, and I nearly finished configuring this micro-wormhole to send the bitstream. (Physical media was too difficult).
Why would that be? No need for newer hardware?
I was just about to post something of this notion, but you beat me to it, White Dinosaur. :D
Except that no game developer would work this hard on a PC game. It's not like there's a secret switch in CGA that enables this. This is all done with a lot of precisely timed assembly code and register stuffing and it breaks on all but authentic hardware. Everyone else would be writing stuff the way the manuals tell them to.
It's always the case that demo effects can outdo the best the game industry has to offer. Demos don't have to be games at the same time.
This remains my gold standard for 8088/CGA demos, and probably always will. I love bringing the delight and amazement to my friends, in pointing them to this masterwork of yours and your comrades-in-demo, Mr. Leonard.
Just wait until you see Area 5150 :-)
I wonder how this demo would run in my Tandy 1000...
Bisqwit I guess you got your answer.
kademan13 Yes, I did. (Published the video on my channel. You know this, but not everyone else who reads this thread.)
OMG nobody replied to this comment? XD
@@FlameRat_YehLon yea, and nobody did in 4 years
@@forind934hmm, I chose this thread because I felt it was a good place to find active fast-paced discussion
The music from around 4:50 onward was fantastic and so appropriate... What a demo!
Haha, no one seemed to complain about the loud 16.5 kHz tone that starts at 6:56 =)
Truly jaw-dropping demo; really clever tricks to bring out this kind of performance from an old IBM 5160! Wish I was there!
Tried this on my model 25, expecting it to not work at all honestly since it's MCGA. Made it to about 1:25, and got stuck there, wouldn't advance to the next parts, but the music kept playing and part of the effect was running and animating.
what a tough crowd -_-
That is brilliant work!
Top effort lads. It's hard to quantify the nostalgic effect your production has.
Man, I miss the old days. Impressive work, thank you for sharing.
That guy going fuck off in the audience is why I love this video.
The ultimate complement. We were being told to fuck off in other languages too if you understand polish, russian, etc. One of the best nights of my life.
I have a slight understanding of Russian, but I can only read and pronounce it.
I understood that as "Fuckers!", and I think it was shouted in amazement, because he thought it was going to be something particularly lame, but then figured he'd be put on the wrong foot, and we did something cool that he did not expect. So I see it as a compliment.
this is probably the same guy who said "ja pierdolę" after the demo ended. it could mean a million things in my language depending on the tone, but in this case it's basically "holy shit" ;)
Thanks for the translation :-)
How could we not have met at Revision 2015.. ;) Great production!!
A boring *clap*clap* for 1K+ colors on a 4 color machine ... yet the audience goes batshit on the BTTF part.
Oh well.
+Hans ‘Shockwav3’ Meier Well, I think only a small part of the audience would be familiar with CGA and its limitations in colours. A much larger part knows the BTTF movies :)
+Scali Bohemiq Yeh ... just goes with my theory tech-nerds aren't the primary demoscene audience (anymore?).
+Hans ‘Shockwav3’ Meier Well, considering that the PC demoscene didn't really get started until 286+ and VGA were already commonplace, we never expected a large part of the crowd to fully understand the IBM PC and its limitations. Which is also why we did that intro-sequence :) I am surprised at the response to the CGA tricks actually, both during the compo and in the online aftermath.
The 1K part was when my jaw hit the floor and stayed there a while!
The recording is from a phone or something, I don't think it was that lame live. I was there.
You know, there needs to be a BTTF-themed demo for the PCjr!
+DanielWS424 Indeed. But not this year.
The Man The Yellow hat:Do you like George
Curious George: Yes
@@JimLeonard I'm curious if the video memory paging of the PCjr could be exploited to make this even more interesting?
@@doublesigmasigma Definitely, but if a PCjr were the target, we would have done completely different things.
Ow, my brain. Seems like I have to say this twice a year or so with all of the cool stuff you keep coming out with, but awesome work Jim!
That sounded like a SID! Wow!
While the delivery system was a standard MOD, it is actually more like a SID under the covers due to the technical restrictions we were under. For example, every instrument in the MOD is 256 samples long.
@@JimLeonard You mean that the end tune is a .MOD file (Noise Tracker, ProTracker format)?
@@JimLeonard Does it include the beep music? Thanks for all your answers.
@@julienbraudel7109 sorry, I misspoke. The beeping tunes were composed in monotone, a tracker for the PC speaker. The end tune was a mod file that used special 256 byte instruments, a limitation necessary for the engine to work.
@@JimLeonard Merci beaucoup. Impressive demo.
Trixter you absolute madman. Inspiring stuff.
Amazing! I wonder if this would have advanced pc graphics hardware sooner if all of this information was known back then or if it would have led to the pc to the eventual fate of the Amiga.
+Teng Chang One of the nicest comments I got was from a hardware engineer who told me that, had this come out in the early 1980s, it would have set hardware development BACK half a decade because it would have set higher expectations from programmers.
+Jim Leonard Oh that does make more sense! The PC's inherent deficiencies drove hardware development.
The best part was when the bloke's head blocked half the picture
That bloke wrote half the demo, so he was entitled.
Need assemble a C64 cluster rendering a whole 16M+ in chorus.
It only took 30 yrs to find someone who put some effort into the code.
Well, technically 20 years * 4 coders.
Awe-some !!
And that on a 8088 with CGA graphics, go figure 😱😍
Btw.. That outro music is epic !!
watching with the reactions more exciting lmao
Absolutely amazing.
But will it work on an emulator on a PC with 5 Titan X Blacks and the latest intel skylake processor overclocked at 8088 Mhz?
I mean, 4 Titan X Blacks
+Henry Ly It'll not work on that GPU, because it lacks some features, sorry bro
Emulation would be possible, but only if you wrote it to specifically work with the program and probably nothing else.
Henry Ly *kaby lake
Killer. Absolutely killer.
3:08 was it only me, or I just heard someone scream "kurrrwa"?
I think so. I'm not familiar with that, though
Wonder what would happen to a modern computer with this level of optimization
Fast stock trading. LOL
realtime ray tracing on an IGPU, probably
Jim, A question if I may. I have original IBM XT hardware with the IBM CGA graphics card. I run the demo (tried new and old cards in config) but don't get colour in the images like the DeLorean flying and the first roll down graphic after "PC SUXX" Any ideas?
Some LCD panels have trouble detecting the composite color burst output by cga. Try a different display device (or a CRT).
Im using a IBM 5153 CRT monitor
@@wintersgrass The demo only shows full color via the composite output port, sorry.
ok thanks Jim. Clear now :) It was still cool to see it running on my XT !!
@@JimLeonard Happy Valentine’s Day jim
"Fuck uuuuus!" ..... I love the demo scene, always giving respect where it deserves.
Yeah, such an asshole
on a color CGA CRT monitor there are not so many colors , and some of the pictures are only black and white
That's because the demo was created for composite color monitors.
now I tred on my TV via composite in and some of scenes are in color other no , stragne
Real CGA card? Also, modern televisions have trouble recognizing the color burst. CRTs work.
Also, make sure you are using the final version which lets you tweak settings for your hardware. It starts with a picture of a CGA card.
yes there is a picture of CGA PCB in color, than is a settings screen that I can choose between 2 color settings and position of the screen and background color , but that hole screen is in black and white :( than the first picture with delorian car is in nice colors like it should be , than intel animation is in vcolor too, delorian screen too. but 1k 16/256 color demos are in black and white , and the girl and creators in the and :( 3D demo is in regular CGA colors, in the credits there is a color too but in strange way ( background is full with colorful "P"s
Hey, big head, wanna move to the right next year?
Very expensive demo to run, due to requiring original hardware. Glad that emulators are stepping up their game though! Maybe in the future that requirement will not exist!
A few clones can run it, just not optimally.
+Jim Leonard Well, a good clone motherboard with original IBM CGA can run it optimally. Haven't seen any clone CGA card yet that works 100%.
Which is not too impressive, since an up-to-date DOSBox already does that. It's the Kefrens bars and the chipmod player that are most difficult to get correct, because they need cycle-exact CPU emulation.
Lets see how well this will run on my PC:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*This app can't run on your PC*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh...
You need DOS to run it, silly!
TheLMGN it's a 16bits app (if not 8), and since it uses some hacks, not even dosbox will be abble to run it
DanielWS424 Not even DOS, you really needs an 8086 machien WITH CGA, if not gg (I tried on my dos machine and it broke )
+ibm5155 Yeah, that too.
P.S. I don't know if DOSBox is ever going to update to 0.75 or higher!
+ibm5155: Let +FairPlay137 applaud BTTF scene. (written from google translate xD)
how do i run this???
Brett Bates Thanks for the response, as another few questions, how much would that set me back, or is there a way to emulate the os/bored?
Brett Bates ok, thank you so much for the information.
I see that a few people in the demoscene have made demos for the 8088, but hardly any for the 8086, why is that?
They are sort-of synonymous. But the 8088 is slower so it is the challenge that appeals to democoders.
@@JimLeonard Yeah main difference is that the 8088 has it's BUI was cut down from 16-bit to 8-bit. Funnily enough technically you can still run that Demo on a modern X86 machine. The problem is not the CPU core itself, but rather every other component like sound card that might compatibility issues.
Another reason might be that 8086 machines are relatively rare, so not very interesting to target. 8088 was the ubiquitious XT clone in the day.
@@Scalibq True The only 8086 machine I have seen on youtube is an old Amstrad IBM PC clone from the mid 80's running a copy of windows 3.11...
Is this program speed-sensitive? In other words, would it run nearly twice as fast on, say, an 8MHz 8088? How would an 8086 affect things? 286?
Most of the program is tuned for 4.77 MHz 8088 except the rotozoomer and plasma which run smoother on faster systems.
Hier wegen stay Forever 😊
Why do they scream? I feel cringe when they did that.
It's a form of appreciation
If this API had been created in 1981, the PC gaming world would be completely different today ! In fact consoles would have likely never existed !
Sorry folks, Consoles started coming out in 1972 9 years before this computer was even sold!
they did
Except that creating stuff like this is so difficult. Just because something can shown in a demo, doesn't mean that's practical to build a game around. Especially when the CPU is 100% occupied with cramming stuff in video registers.
"FUCK OFF"
-audience member
That was definitely a jerk
Not bad for a PC, even one running over 4 times faster than a Commodore 64... 🙃
Ever heard of the MHz myth?
Conclusion: *PC SUXX!*
I'm prefer the Commodore 64.
You ARE prefer? 'k