40:16 My group had to make a similar choice during our Rime of the Frostmaiden game. We loaded up our cart with a couple hundred pounds of mammoth meat, and pulled it using our two donkeys. We decided to set a trap for the virbeeg that kept attacking travelers outside Goodmead. My child Fiend-Patron warlock and our dragonborn ranger rode in the cart while the rest of the party stealthed behind. The plan was to draw it out and then jump it and its (undetermined) companion. Unfortunately, a wandering monster showed up; damn white dragon! Because he landed in front of us and was clearly blind, my character thought fast and cut loose the donkeys, slapping their asses (pun originally unintended) to lead it away. It ate them both without moving from its spot. Seeing where this was going, my PC gave a last-second hand signal to flee and we both got away as the dragon devoured the meat and destroyed the cart. On a positive note, we salvaged the wheels to use them as tabletops to furnish our inn.
Reaction and morale rolls changed the games I play in for the better. It makes the game even more dynamic and really allows players to punch above their weight if they are creative, resourceful, lucky, or a combination of these traits. Also it allows you to differentiate enemies. The thrall of an aboleth or mind flayer becomes far more tragic when it unwillingly fights to the death when it would otherwise flee. It allows the DM to emphasize the danger, wickedness, and malice of certain enemies.
I used a reaction roll last night with some ghouls as my party was exploring the Adytum and it made for a fun dynamic as they just decided to follow the PCs for a bit. Bringing morale into my games recently has been more fun on my side of the screen.
@@atlas_of_prescottia He hasn't answered it yet, so I will. In the older editions of DnD you used larger forces of enemies against the players. E.g. instead of a single Goblin, on their Statblock you'd see 2d8 goblins instead. 1 or more goblins are the leaders. When the PCs fight the goblins, instead of killing every single one, they'd kill the guys calling the shots or the strongest one, or kill at least half of them, and the rest would flee. But they'd still get experience for killing all gobs. So instead of the 12 rounds it would take to kill 10+ goblins, you could end combat in 2 or 3, and it would still make narrative sense.
Another factor in determining morale in an encounter is the presence of things that boost it. Banners are a good one for this. Gives you something to do with the standard wargame unit trinity of Sergeant/Musician/Banner Bearer. The enemy will rally around the big flag or symbol of their cause. Might, as with the leader figure, give them a boost on the morale check (+1 or +2). Or it might give them Advantage on that check, if the banner bearer uses their Action to wave the banner around or plant in on a spot. Conversely, though, if the banner bearer falls or the banner is taken, that's a morale check for the monsters. The presence of spellcasters on the monster side, in excess of their nominal leader, can boost morale. People who can summon fire or ensorcell their foes is a good boost of confidence. At least, among creatures that appreciate them. If the magic user is one of their kind, it will probably be respected, because it's one of their kind. If it's a magic user they hired or work for/with, and/or the monsters in the encounter are superstitious, the presence of the magic user might be a _detriment_ to their morale. They might not like being stabbed by the PCs, but they're terrified of the guy slinging spells even if it's on their side. By that same token, superstitious monsters may get penalties to morale if the PCs have spellcasters. Ones most susceptible to this will typically already have low morale to begin with, but any group can be prone to fearing magic. This is why, while it's sometimes pragmatic for a spellcasting PC to hide their powers until they need to use them (so as not to be targeted), there's also something to be said about being openly magical. For intimidation purposes. Environmental factors may boost morale among monsters. If they have the high ground, they'll probably stick to the fight more readily. But if that high ground is ever compromised, that's a morale check. It can create interesting situations, where the encounter might be exclusively ranged attackers all perched on an elevated position, counting on the high ground protect them. But when that advantage fails, they rout easily.
I use the "Tide of the Battle" to determine morale. The "Tide" ranges from 0 - 5. At 0 the PC's have an overwhelming advantage and the enemies will flee from the combat by any means necessary. At 5 the enemies have an overwhelming advantage, and the PC's should flee by any means necessary. Combats usually start between 2 - 4 depending on who has the advantage at the start. As participants involved in the combat become injured or die the "Tide" swings back and forth. Instead of trying to kill all the enemies, the PC's just need to swing the "Tide" in their favor so the enemies lose the will to fight.
@@serpentxblessed No hard and fast rules just go by feel. Tide would change the first time a creature or PC goes down, when half of one group is down, when a leader is downed, or if someone uses magic that is stronger than the other side can produce. These are just some ways the tide could change.
I love 2d6 morale checks. I even hacked them into a Hero's Journey 2nd Edition game that I ran. It gives the world more verisimilitude, and speeds up play drastically. A video on Reaction would be great too. I love using it during prep with random encounters. The outcome of those rolls create a whole adventure on itself! Suddenly you find a very hostile and evil monster with a friendly reaction and you have to come up with a reason why: maybe they are hurt and cornered and don't want to fight, maybe they want the PCs to help them get rid of another problem, and so on.
"Typically" or "Usually" is a term AD&D used for monsters of many kinds with regard to their alignment. There might be good kobolds, or kobolds that are good by kobold standards, or even a paladin's standard. There could be a kobold paladin. There could also be a unicorn. Perhaps a "fallen unicorn".
I played the original Final Fantasy Tactics at a young age, so I'm fully familiar with the fact that if your win condition is "Defeat all enemies." you had nothing better come to mind. I like to use a modified version of Cypher System XP in D&D. That means both very high and very low rolls grant XP. Players love screeching "Insight Check!" at the drop of a hat. I like to use those two things against each other. I'll call for regular insight checks in combat. Especially if there's an inquisitive rogue or peace domain cleric or similar detective or mediator type character in the party. "Oh you got a 6? Yeah, these street urchins who picked your pocket are hard to read... And you got a 17? Okay, good. These are children you're hunting down. They'll give up and give back your bag of toenail clippings if they either open the bag and see what they stole or if you catch up, fight them, and one of them takes more than 2 points of damage. With a 17 you also know that these kids will be your faithful servants if you kill the "beggar king" abusing them and sending them out to steal for him." "With a 15 in Acrana you know that these fanatical cultists are high on the the magic powder their leader shoots them up with before sending them into combat. They will not stop until you kill them. Also, you recognize the son of one of the townspeople who sent you here in the first place. Bring him home alive and the mayor will have you declared local nobility." As for wild animals I don't use them as is. Packs of wolves will not attack large groups of armed and healthy humans. Bears don't charge in when outnumbered 10 to 1. I only use animals when I've taken the stat block and reflavored it or given it a PC subclass, or when the pack of animals is clearly being controlled. "With a 15 animal handling check you know that these wolves are under the influence of the regional effects of the creature you're hunting. If you take out the big one with the glowing eyes and the tentacles coming off its belly and jowls the control effect will end and the others will run." Realistically, fights to the death only happen when the losing side is more afraid of being killed by their boss than their enemy, they're defending their family and loved ones hiding in the next room, they're being controlled by the big bad, or they're mindless drones. In all those cases the actual win conditions for ending the fight are either "kill everyone" or "kill the big bad."
I'm so glad someone else has running rules, because I missed those from previous editions. The way I have it it's 3 times movement, 4 times movement if it's a straight line. Which is 12 mph, for a 30 ft movement creature, something that keeps in line with a general athlete while still being plausible for a wizard hopped up on "run or die" adrenaline. Attackers advantage if attacking someone in full sprint, because they're moving in a very predictable way and doing little to dodge. Still normal opportunity rules outside that though.
You could add a quick reference of degrees of morale check failure. By 1 and they get a 1 malus next check, 2 and they stand off avoiding direct combat if not under ranged fire, 3 is a tactical retreat, 4 is full route. Might want to do a 3d6 scale instead of 2d6 though.
3 minutes in: I am so exited to hear what is your opinion an moral and stuff because I don’t think we need it. It’s a roleplayinggame, not a board game. At least in my humble opinion 😊
I have most humanoid and intelligent monsters attempt to flee when low unless they are some kind of fanatic or are dead set on killing the party. My party has figured this out and make a habit of chasing down all survivors
How does Fear effects and 'Resistances' to being Frightened (ie a Halflings Brave or the Immunity conveyed by a Heroes Feast) on NPCs interact with your 2d6 Morale roll? Is it a case of a static value up or down ie +/- 2, or is it roll 3d6 and take the best/worst 2d6?
@@OldSchoolGM94 yes I think it would depend on why they have frighten immunity. A fiend might be immune but they are not dumb and will not die unnecessarily. A zombie is mindless and is immune to being frightened because they are too dumb and have no self preservation instincts.
Pruit's currently taking a break from the channel - I believe he's still active with WebDM (like their Kickstarter projects and such) but he isn't doing videos for a bit.
Really hate that i missed this cast.. 😡! I hate that the designers took out morale. When Khor is released DMs and players will have a serious effort being made for them when it comes to morale.
Thank you for the heads up! RUclips places midroll automatically, and it seems like they lost their gourds on this one. Turned off midroll ads entirely. Enjoy!
I think having players experience that loss of control is just as important as the NPCs; the panic that ensues brings life to the table. I mean, that is what fear is - a loss of control and/or composure. I believe in an even playing field. The rules that apply to the NPCs also apply to the players; anything the players can do to the NPCs, the NPCs can do to them, and to each other. I hate long drawn out out-of-character debates, so the players roll opposed skill checks. I also despise heroic/power-fantasy, which is why I elect to not use D&D as our system.
40:16
My group had to make a similar choice during our Rime of the Frostmaiden game. We loaded up our cart with a couple hundred pounds of mammoth meat, and pulled it using our two donkeys. We decided to set a trap for the virbeeg that kept attacking travelers outside Goodmead. My child Fiend-Patron warlock and our dragonborn ranger rode in the cart while the rest of the party stealthed behind. The plan was to draw it out and then jump it and its (undetermined) companion. Unfortunately, a wandering monster showed up; damn white dragon! Because he landed in front of us and was clearly blind, my character thought fast and cut loose the donkeys, slapping their asses (pun originally unintended) to lead it away. It ate them both without moving from its spot. Seeing where this was going, my PC gave a last-second hand signal to flee and we both got away as the dragon devoured the meat and destroyed the cart.
On a positive note, we salvaged the wheels to use them as tabletops to furnish our inn.
Reaction and morale rolls changed the games I play in for the better. It makes the game even more dynamic and really allows players to punch above their weight if they are creative, resourceful, lucky, or a combination of these traits. Also it allows you to differentiate enemies. The thrall of an aboleth or mind flayer becomes far more tragic when it unwillingly fights to the death when it would otherwise flee. It allows the DM to emphasize the danger, wickedness, and malice of certain enemies.
I used a reaction roll last night with some ghouls as my party was exploring the Adytum and it made for a fun dynamic as they just decided to follow the PCs for a bit. Bringing morale into my games recently has been more fun on my side of the screen.
Also another positive of using Moral.
Is that the GM/DM can use larger forces against the player's.
I fail to see how using larger forces against players is contingent on morale, but I'm interested to hear you explain your position.
@@atlas_of_prescottia not contingent
@@dungeonmaster6292 I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. May I read it again in a complete sentence?
@@atlas_of_prescottia
He hasn't answered it yet, so I will.
In the older editions of DnD you used larger forces of enemies against the players. E.g. instead of a single Goblin, on their Statblock you'd see 2d8 goblins instead.
1 or more goblins are the leaders.
When the PCs fight the goblins, instead of killing every single one, they'd kill the guys calling the shots or the strongest one, or kill at least half of them, and the rest would flee.
But they'd still get experience for killing all gobs.
So instead of the 12 rounds it would take to kill 10+ goblins, you could end combat in 2 or 3, and it would still make narrative sense.
@@jasonfurumetarualkemisto5917 I see. Thanks for teaching me something new. :)
Another factor in determining morale in an encounter is the presence of things that boost it.
Banners are a good one for this. Gives you something to do with the standard wargame unit trinity of Sergeant/Musician/Banner Bearer. The enemy will rally around the big flag or symbol of their cause. Might, as with the leader figure, give them a boost on the morale check (+1 or +2). Or it might give them Advantage on that check, if the banner bearer uses their Action to wave the banner around or plant in on a spot. Conversely, though, if the banner bearer falls or the banner is taken, that's a morale check for the monsters.
The presence of spellcasters on the monster side, in excess of their nominal leader, can boost morale. People who can summon fire or ensorcell their foes is a good boost of confidence. At least, among creatures that appreciate them. If the magic user is one of their kind, it will probably be respected, because it's one of their kind. If it's a magic user they hired or work for/with, and/or the monsters in the encounter are superstitious, the presence of the magic user might be a _detriment_ to their morale. They might not like being stabbed by the PCs, but they're terrified of the guy slinging spells even if it's on their side.
By that same token, superstitious monsters may get penalties to morale if the PCs have spellcasters. Ones most susceptible to this will typically already have low morale to begin with, but any group can be prone to fearing magic. This is why, while it's sometimes pragmatic for a spellcasting PC to hide their powers until they need to use them (so as not to be targeted), there's also something to be said about being openly magical. For intimidation purposes.
Environmental factors may boost morale among monsters. If they have the high ground, they'll probably stick to the fight more readily. But if that high ground is ever compromised, that's a morale check. It can create interesting situations, where the encounter might be exclusively ranged attackers all perched on an elevated position, counting on the high ground protect them. But when that advantage fails, they rout easily.
Damn, only caught the first half of the stream, so I'm super glad to finish up!
I use the "Tide of the Battle" to determine morale. The "Tide" ranges from 0 - 5. At 0 the PC's have an overwhelming advantage and the enemies will flee from the combat by any means necessary. At 5 the enemies have an overwhelming advantage, and the PC's should flee by any means necessary. Combats usually start between 2 - 4 depending on who has the advantage at the start. As participants involved in the combat become injured or die the "Tide" swings back and forth. Instead of trying to kill all the enemies, the PC's just need to swing the "Tide" in their favor so the enemies lose the will to fight.
Do you have any particular rules on what increases and decreases the tide and by how much or do you just go by feel?
@@serpentxblessed No hard and fast rules just go by feel. Tide would change the first time a creature or PC goes down, when half of one group is down, when a leader is downed, or if someone uses magic that is stronger than the other side can produce. These are just some ways the tide could change.
I love 2d6 morale checks. I even hacked them into a Hero's Journey 2nd Edition game that I ran. It gives the world more verisimilitude, and speeds up play drastically. A video on Reaction would be great too. I love using it during prep with random encounters. The outcome of those rolls create a whole adventure on itself! Suddenly you find a very hostile and evil monster with a friendly reaction and you have to come up with a reason why: maybe they are hurt and cornered and don't want to fight, maybe they want the PCs to help them get rid of another problem, and so on.
"Typically" or "Usually" is a term AD&D used for monsters of many kinds with regard to their alignment. There might be good kobolds, or kobolds that are good by kobold standards, or even a paladin's standard. There could be a kobold paladin. There could also be a unicorn. Perhaps a "fallen unicorn".
I played the original Final Fantasy Tactics at a young age, so I'm fully familiar with the fact that if your win condition is "Defeat all enemies." you had nothing better come to mind.
I like to use a modified version of Cypher System XP in D&D. That means both very high and very low rolls grant XP. Players love screeching "Insight Check!" at the drop of a hat. I like to use those two things against each other. I'll call for regular insight checks in combat. Especially if there's an inquisitive rogue or peace domain cleric or similar detective or mediator type character in the party.
"Oh you got a 6? Yeah, these street urchins who picked your pocket are hard to read... And you got a 17? Okay, good. These are children you're hunting down. They'll give up and give back your bag of toenail clippings if they either open the bag and see what they stole or if you catch up, fight them, and one of them takes more than 2 points of damage. With a 17 you also know that these kids will be your faithful servants if you kill the "beggar king" abusing them and sending them out to steal for him."
"With a 15 in Acrana you know that these fanatical cultists are high on the the magic powder their leader shoots them up with before sending them into combat. They will not stop until you kill them. Also, you recognize the son of one of the townspeople who sent you here in the first place. Bring him home alive and the mayor will have you declared local nobility."
As for wild animals I don't use them as is. Packs of wolves will not attack large groups of armed and healthy humans. Bears don't charge in when outnumbered 10 to 1. I only use animals when I've taken the stat block and reflavored it or given it a PC subclass, or when the pack of animals is clearly being controlled.
"With a 15 animal handling check you know that these wolves are under the influence of the regional effects of the creature you're hunting. If you take out the big one with the glowing eyes and the tentacles coming off its belly and jowls the control effect will end and the others will run."
Realistically, fights to the death only happen when the losing side is more afraid of being killed by their boss than their enemy, they're defending their family and loved ones hiding in the next room, they're being controlled by the big bad, or they're mindless drones. In all those cases the actual win conditions for ending the fight are either "kill everyone" or "kill the big bad."
There's a lot of great stuff to think about in this comment!
I'm so glad someone else has running rules, because I missed those from previous editions. The way I have it it's 3 times movement, 4 times movement if it's a straight line. Which is 12 mph, for a 30 ft movement creature, something that keeps in line with a general athlete while still being plausible for a wizard hopped up on "run or die" adrenaline. Attackers advantage if attacking someone in full sprint, because they're moving in a very predictable way and doing little to dodge. Still normal opportunity rules outside that though.
You could add a quick reference of degrees of morale check failure. By 1 and they get a 1 malus next check, 2 and they stand off avoiding direct combat if not under ranged fire, 3 is a tactical retreat, 4 is full route. Might want to do a 3d6 scale instead of 2d6 though.
Heroes' Feast just conjures a a mirrored coffee table, a kilo of coke and a razor blade. 🤧
Very important conversations!
3 minutes in: I am so exited to hear what is your opinion an moral and stuff because I don’t think we need it. It’s a roleplayinggame, not a board game. At least in my humble opinion 😊
for the prisoner dilemma I always say "there are rules in society for this kind of things" and use it as a tool for worldbuilding
I have most humanoid and intelligent monsters attempt to flee when low unless they are some kind of fanatic or are dead set on killing the party. My party has figured this out and make a habit of chasing down all survivors
How does Fear effects and 'Resistances' to being Frightened (ie a Halflings Brave or the Immunity conveyed by a Heroes Feast) on NPCs interact with your 2d6 Morale roll? Is it a case of a static value up or down ie +/- 2, or is it roll 3d6 and take the best/worst 2d6?
In B/X D&D (one of the first editions with morale checks) the answer was whatever the DM thinks sounds good.
@@OldSchoolGM94 yes I think it would depend on why they have frighten immunity. A fiend might be immune but they are not dumb and will not die unnecessarily. A zombie is mindless and is immune to being frightened because they are too dumb and have no self preservation instincts.
Thank you for this video. This topic never seems to get the focus it deserves.
I was a skirmish/war gamer first. Love morale mechanics.
This video boosted my morale!
I have quite the backlog of videos to catch up on!
Anyone know where I can find the rules Jim is talking about for blindly charging through the dungeon?
I really really want to know more about that table for depleting parties when they flee the dungeon
This is really cool
Sounds like a warhammer 40k moral phase checks. Makes sense to me
I like this idea, very cool :)
Thank you
And another day passes that I miss web dm
Been a while since watched. But did I miss something. Where is Pruit (sp?)?
Chose to step away from being on-camera / on-mic, still involved in the Weird Wastelands book and part of the fam.
Pruit's currently taking a break from the channel - I believe he's still active with WebDM (like their Kickstarter projects and such) but he isn't doing videos for a bit.
Yeah, but the party puts the NPC in dangerous situations. The NPCs lead the way, check things for traps (bodily), etc.
🥳❤️👍🏿
Really hate that i missed this cast.. 😡! I hate that the designers took out morale. When Khor is released DMs and players will have a serious effort being made for them when it comes to morale.
I have a lot to contribute to this. I would also like to see what you say, but seven minutes in, I have had three annoying adds.
So, bye.
Thank you for the heads up! RUclips places midroll automatically, and it seems like they lost their gourds on this one. Turned off midroll ads entirely. Enjoy!
I think having players experience that loss of control is just as important as the NPCs; the panic that ensues brings life to the table. I mean, that is what fear is - a loss of control and/or composure.
I believe in an even playing field. The rules that apply to the NPCs also apply to the players; anything the players can do to the NPCs, the NPCs can do to them, and to each other. I hate long drawn out out-of-character debates, so the players roll opposed skill checks.
I also despise heroic/power-fantasy, which is why I elect to not use D&D as our system.