Death of the Machine Gun Cruiser-The Battle of Kula Gulf-Episode 210
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2023
- This week Bill and Seth take a look at one of the lesser-known surface battles in the Pacific, the Battle of Kula Gulf. The team breaks down the gunfight and dissects the amazing survival story of the crew of the ship known as the "Machine Gun Cruiser", USS Helena (CL-50). Tune in and see what the fellas have to say.
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I used to watch McHale's Navy and the names of these anchorages were in every episode. William J Lederer, former Captain of the USS Honolulu,(which was a Brooklyn class Cruser , light) was the technical consultant on that show. This Channel is great. A lot of hard work goes into it, and it shows, thank you.
All hale McHale!
Lookout for Washing Machine Charlie!
This former Navy Nurse (NAS JAX and others) thanks you for a great podcast. I have always had great interest in WWII and your detailed info on the Pacific theater has expanded my knowledge. Today's podcast was exceptionally informative.
Thanks for the detailed review of the Kula Gulf battle. My dad and his brother survived the sinking of the Helena. They were among the lucky ones picked up by the Nicholas at sunrise. Their battle station was on a 40mm Bofer. Dad said he placed his shoes on the deck and stepped off only a couple of feet to water. On board the Nicholas they were ordered below to an engine room to lower the center of gravity of the ship. The captain asked for more speed, the reply was, "we're already at the last notch". They were headed to Tulagi at full speed!
Wow. Such great men!
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar
Dad would have been the first to tell you that they were just ordinary Missouri farm boys put in this situation and others had it far worse than they did. Dad was also on the cruiser USS Houston CL-81 in October 1944 when it was torpedoed and part of a small crew that stayed with the ship to save it from sinking. He said that was a bigger ordeal than the sinking of the Helena. It went on for many weeks. Uncle Bob never went to sea after the Helena when they separated brothers after the sinking of the Jeaneau. Dad was an eyewitness to that.
At 7 years old I was introduced to “Victory at Sea” and now 70 years later at age 77 I stumbled upon you guys. You are finishing up this history so well. I read the Chinese are studying these battles around Guadalcanal and the Solomons and building their fleet accordingly with many smaller ships like destroyers. Good job!
Hey, me too old timer. My older brother and I used to watch “Victory at Sea” and “The Silent Service” back in the old days. We had a coal powered TV! Just joking about the coal.
My uncle got it for me on DVD for Christmas about 10 years ago. I still got it.
My dear friend, Jim "Red" Leighton was the Corpsman on the Helena when she went down. He is credited in the book about the Helena, "The Fightin'est Ship: The Story of the Cruiser "Helena" as saving many of the men who washed up on the shore with him. Those men were made of stuff the likes of which we haven't seen in successive generations. We owe them everything and are forever in their debt.
Agree, but how come? Well, things that don't kill you make you stronger!! The Great Depression was a crucible which produced people who had low expectations of what life might afford materially, and therefore were able to make the best of what they were given, and to improve upon and improvise. And not complain but to help one another.
After the things these men went through during World War 2, it is no wonder they came home and the USA the greatest country in the world. It was these men. Real men that brought the awesome Panche of Real Americans to the war. Respect and Honor
Japanese Type 95 Torpedo: 22,000 yards fast speed. 44,000 yards slow speed. Incredible range for any Torpedo in those days.
Used PURE OXYGEN, one has to wonder how many Jap ships and subs blew up because of this mistake , those figures are never quoted, it is possible a jap battleship blew up because of torpedo failure or accident in loading.
As Bill said we didn’t have anything to equal it until 1962!
@dutovdevlich3781 Type 95 was 21 inch submarine torpedo, never used on destroyers. It was even faster than Type 93 24 inch destroyer torpedo. But naturally not as far reaching (subs do nothing with weapons of 22000-44000 yard range, they cant see that far from low conning tower). Type 95 "only" steamed at 51 knots for 10000 yards. 😮 Thats just above 55 mph US highway speed limit and close to highway patrol speed ticketing range 😮😮😮.
IJN submarine I-19 used one salvo of 6 Type 95 torpedoes to accomplish the most damaging single attack in submarine warfare history against moving and fully combat capable enemy ships. And at broad daylight. She sank USS Wasp (CV-7) and destroyer O'Brien (DD-415) and damaged battleship North Carolina (BB-55) putting her to repairs for 7 weeks at Pearl.
@kimmoj2570 yep, I did wrong version.
The ridiculous thing about American doctrine for these light cruisers is that they were allowed to go to continuous rapid fire in a night action within a certain range. Under continuous rapid fire a Brooklyn or Cleveland will continuously illuminate itself with gun flashes, but will simultaneously continuously ruin the night vision of the spotters. For night battle, it makes more sense to stick to formal salvos so that the spotters can be warned and close their eyes against flashes and so that the enemy only sees you once every 6-8 seconds.
I'm not Nathan Okun (delighted to hear him mentioned), but I've had some RUclips comment discussions with him. In particular, he has explained in incredible technical detail that the US delay fuse for armor piercing shells had a flaw at this stage of the war, which was probably best understood (because US personnel would have a chance to examine the results after the battle) from USS Massachusetts fighting the French Battleship Jean Bart at Casablanca a few days before Washington ravaged Kirishima. The explosive filler in US shells, ammonium picrate, would off gas in storage and the gases released would corrode the fine workings of the fuse, preventing it from setting off the main charge, so there would be a significant percentage of duds. This would be resolved by dipping the assembled fuse in sealant to protect those fine mechanisms from the corrosive gases, but until that was recognized and applied to fuze production duds would be a problem.
losing only 168 men out of a crew of 1,200 for a ship that broke up and sank in the dark is a remarkable achievement.
It's amazing how that hour and 17 minutes flew by so quickly. Yet another great episode!
Ain't it the truth!?
Most engaged ships are at battle stations this long. But the depth of information is worth it.
My favorite WWII cruiser! She took care of her crew to the end.
Great stories once again! The Helena was great boat, shame she was sunk but glad so much of the crew made it out. The little whaler boat convoy is legendary! Thanks again guys, love to learn so much from you every week.
Ted Blanac, a former teacher at Coloma High School, Coloma, Michigan was one of the guys who was left in the water and was eventually rescued.
I have never heard of this engagement. The bravery of the men looking after the survivors. Another great episode, gentlemen.
Thanks! to repeat what Steve in comments said of the importance of History put down in this honest, friendly & fun way. I had seen the effects of war on my own family, wasn't till I was out of the house I really started into the guts of this historic era.
Thank you!
Thanks Seth and Commodore Bill "Taco" Toti for all this work! I've been enjoying your amazing and entertaining talks and insights of the Pacific campaign the whole weekend! Cheers from Santiago, Chile.
Haha. Thanks
Thanks for the shout out to the Ralph Talbot (DD 390). My Dad was on her after being assigned after the Utah had been sunk. He and his ship mates referred to her as the Rat Trap.
Gentlemen, once again you've brought to light some of the nearly forgotten history and stories of this huge conflict. Always entertaining, enlightening and educational; thank you for your awesome presentation. I'll always look forward to your next podcast.
P.s.- Bill, know it's a pain in the rear echelon but I like the Maps, it does give context to what you're talking about, I wonder how many in today's High School History class can even point out this part of the world IF they have a map. I had a well worn edition of Rich Franks Guadalcanal which I had the maps ear-flagged and followed along your Guadalcanal post. If you can get your audience to become more involved like this it only makes it better to hang on to them (speaking of the Young-un's here, old guys like me eat this stuff up).
26:03
As to your opening point, you ask a question to which you know the answer. Right?
For entertainment, hand said contemporary student an open map, watch the struggle, and then watch student try to fold it back up.
I teach HS history and i can answer your question. 1. maybe 5% could point it out before a lesson and around 50% could a week after taught, in a good class. 2. no maps its all digital cheaper that way. This battle and all the places mention here are not taught at all. they are not included on the end of year state tests for students there for they are not in the PRESCRIBED Curriculum and are not taught covered or mentioned. The only things we are allowed to cover are pearle, midway, 3 sentences in text on the solomons, and the end of the war. sad sad sad todays youth knows nothing of this type of history thats why these channels are so important.
Has anybody seen any of those Man-on-the-street with a camera and Mic asking random people, mostly younger adults, various simple questions (*) and watch them struggle for answers (*), like "Who Did The U.S. Fight in the Civil War", not Joking, a large portion could not get it correct.
Thanks to both of you for all of your efforts.... where young people will not read the massive amount of information available on this war, you have put it into a format that they can experience and learn from that will effect their future opinions and endeavors.
Semper!
Gentlemen, thanks for the outstanding presentation!
Capt. Toti, was the namesake DD of Chas. P. Cecil still at SSFNLON when you were there. She was still proudly homeported there when I attended sub school and caught my first shore billet. (77-78) the old gal was gone the next shore assignment I had there in 81-:85
Great episode. I am fascinated by the Solomon campaign. Lonely Vigil by Walter Lord has a great account of the coast watcher and religious clergy that helped rescue some of the Helena survivors. Keep up the great work.
Hi, I have only recently, the past one or two years, started getting interested in WWII. I am 66. I love this podcast series. Have learned so much and even better, I keep learning more just to keep up. For example, didn’t understand the difference between destroyers, light cruisers, heavy cruisers and battleships. So did some research last week and now have a basic concept of size and abilities. Your series made me want to learn. Thank you seems too small a phrase. You are making this history come alive.
My dad, A. N. Brown served on the Destroyer Jenkins, DD 447 (plank owner) throughout the war. I could never find a detailed history of the Battle of Kula Gulf. Thank you so much for this detailed account!
I’m really enjoying this channel!
The comment number and quality warm my heart. You men absolutely deserve the attention and accolades.
You guys are as good a podcast as "the rest of history" is!
Another great episode gentlemen, keeps getting better every time. Look forward to each new show. Congratulations on breaking 10k subscribers! Spread the word everyone!
Really good job with the maps, guys! I know it's probably a pain in the neck to add that in, but it really does make a difference in helping us visually keep track of things. And it's really a compliment to both of you and the format you've created to've gotten that type of response . . . means people are digging it and want more of it.
Just started watching this and already hooked. Naval history is one of my favorite historical pursuits. Surface warfare, and of course battleships, but the oft overlooked cruisers are of much fascination. The "machine gun cruisers" of the Brooklyn and St. Louis classes are some of my favorites. Not as much is said of these ships and these battles.
Thank you for diving into this! Can't wait to watch the rest.
We’ve got plenty of those on our channel
Love the maps showing context! Thank you so much for doing this series
Videos like this is why I’m enjoying your channel so much. I’ve never heard of OPERATION TOENAILS (from your last episode) or the KAYLA GULF battle. I love learning of factual WW2 naval history, that’s totally new to me. Im glad I found this channel and have been telling my friends about it. You guys do a great job and I love the maps you now show. It adds a lot to the story i feel. As always, looking forward to next your week’s video…
Greetings. I have been binging your podcasts and have loved the style and insights. Also - really love the chemistry between Bill and Seth - as well as all the well informed "special" guests. I had previously found and was following Drachinifel - but have added others of which I was not aware until I listened to your podcasts. I am 70 - and retired now, never served. My father was a pilot based in India/Burma area in late 44 through 45. He rarely spoke of this time but I remember he would sleep with a loaded 45 under his pillow for years - drove my mother nuts. The one time - and really I think it was only once - he ever went into detail he described how they would fly low over the jungle canopy to reduce the time they would be exposed to ground fire and push supplies out over allied positions as there were merely pockets of men - not the "front line" environment found in other areas. He also said he had flown the hump - but I'm not sure how active that was by the time he arrived in theater. Not sure if you plan to cover this - as it appears US was mostly in a support role - but wondering if you could recommend a resource to learn more about this theater. Anyway - your podcasts are outstanding. Just sad that I've pretty much caught up - now am going to have to wait for next episode.
Seth and Bill, Thank you for the awesome podcast ! I was fortunate to become friends with survivor Bill Jim Davis, 1st Class Petty Officer, of the USS Helena. Bill Jim and his brother Rob Roy Davis were both crewmembers and survivors of the sinking. Bill Jim Davis was born in Memphis TN and grew up in Tipton County TN near Covington TN. Bill Jim enlisted in the Navy in Dec 1938 and became a crew member of the USS Helena later in 1939. He was on board the Helena during the attack on Pearl Harbor. The Helena was damaged by a torpedo during the attack. Bill Jim Davis was one of the finest men !
Bill, I'd like to speak with you sometimes about the USS Indianapolis CA-35. I became acquainted with INDY survivor James Smith. Thank you for helping the INDY crew with their fight for Captain McVay. Hope to meet both you and Seth some day !! Jeff Myers
Bill responding: James was a good friend. Thanks for your friendship with him.
Just found your sight. My Dad was on the USS BIRMINGHAM from when it was transferred to the Pacific to it's decommissioning in 1946. He was wounded 2 times. I think of all the places in history that he took place in is amazing. His favorite time was shore bombardment and troop support, getting even he
called it. Keep up your good work and maybe do something on the USS BIRMINGHAM sometime.
I got into this part of our history as an aviation history buff and for some inexplicable reason became fascinated by the accounts of Naval surface battles. Don't know why because I'd be sick before leaving the harbor. Nowhere have I found the Pacific surface battle history, as a whole,, better told than with your team.
Incredible indeed that Ainsworth takes over a Cruiser Division that had just gotten raked by Long Lances which most of the captains apparently didn't expect or at least didn't evade even after the cruisers ahead of them were hit . . . and Ainsworth doesn't know that recent history about the Division he's taking over the command of? Nimitz doesn't even tell him what he knows about the adversaries advantage in that tech? Were these guys being too proud to be real about this just yet?
It's a good thing that Ainsworth was a quick study and capable of making adjustments I guess tho it didn't seem to steer him clear of torpedoes.
Beautiful ending rescuing the Helena survivors. Was actually shouting in my office !
I very much appreciate your account here. My grandfather was a shipbuilder at Maine's Bath Iron Works and probably had a hand in making the O'Bannon and other destroyers in Pacific fights. A, somewhat distant, relative was killed on the USS Helena by a Japanese torpedo in Pearl Harbor.
Great work as always . I love your show . take care sirs .
The torpedoing of the DD Strong is all the more remarkable in that Niizuke's class had the weakest torpedo battery of any modern IJN DD - four tubes. This was because the class were originally designed as DDAA's (4X2 3.9 inch) - a lighetr version of the US CL's of the Atlanta class (First 4 *X2 Last 7 6X2 5inch) and the RN CL's of the Dido class (5X2 5.25 inch) to escort the IJN's BB's and CV's. THe torpedo tubes were more or less an after thought
Capable of putting up to 10 rounds per gun a minute down range, the USN didn't realize that they had the best CL's of the war until heavy losses among the CA's forced the Brooklyn/St. Louis/Clevelands to the front of surface operations in the South Pacific. Imagine 250-500 rounds in the air at the same time coming at you that night.
Fellows, you are such an inspiration! Im eagerly awaiting each new episode. On your recommendations Ive bought: Shattered Sword, Twilight of the gods, Fire in the sky and Race of aces. Half way through them. Thank you for the journey of knowledge!
Make sure you get Neptunes Inferno as well it will help make some sense out of the multiple naval battles.
@@jameshannagan4256 Thank you!
You have really taken this channel to heart! Buying reference material is serious commitment. Well played
I knew about this battle; but only from the perspective of the iron and steel. I knew who Admiral Ainsworth was; but only as the Commander. If my memory is correct; the Peter Tares also assisted in the rescue ops. Regardless; the human background you guys deliver makes Unauthorized History MUCH WATCH every Tuesday.
Bravo Zulu gentleman. Another informative and entertaining episode. Thank you for the hard work you guys are going.
It is also worth to note, that Niizuki, brand new AA DD, made the radar contact on US DD's, prior to launch her torpedoes. This was new approach in the IJN.
Wikipedia:
On the night of 4-5 July 1943, Niizuki led a troop transport run to Kolombangara. With her radar she detected U.S. ships in Kula Gulf, and she, along with the destroyers Yūnagi and Nagatsuki, fired a salvo of torpedoes, which sank the destroyer USS Strong.
Love you guys...thank you for making this priceless podcast that will be forever archived with the history of the pacific war
You two are so interesting to listen too. I never been so engaged and entertain by such informative History.
Another terrific episode!
Hearing the names of these places in the Central Solomon Islands, I can't help but thinking of the story of PT-109. I am hoping for an episode about the 109 and our Peter Tearrs in the Solomons, as I would love to hear your take on it!
Yes this is the area where JFK went down. The story of how he was rescued is remarkable
One thing I need to constantly remind myself as I listen to this is that I've never used 1940s radar. As a former deck officer of commercial ships, I have used radar plenty. I've used it in heavy traffic, in confused waters, very close to land, and in restricted waters.
What I've never done is any of that was a 1940s radar. I would imagine a Raytheon 3cm set from about 2010 would give a lot better resolution, way better bearing accuracy (although captains liked to point of that bearing on radar were still often less accurate than observed bearings done the old fashioned way), better target discrimination. I could tune to reduce clutter pretty effectively. My radar had built in plotting, so no need for grease pencil plus or doing radar transfer plotting by hand (which I have done and used to be good at and fairly fast, but not anymore). I also had the classic PPI scope type view with Ownship in the center, North up, with that nice 2D picture. I don't know what radars these ships had, but I know stuff that came before SG didn't have that and you had to read like an oscilloscope type displace. That would be much less intuitive and much easier to lose track of which targets are which and where they all are.
The two other huge aids I had in figuring out what was going on were GPS and very accurate charts. That way, I always knew where I was, so if I saw a weird target and wasn't sure if it was a ship or a landmass, it was very easy to cross check the radar picture with the chat.
I just have to keep reminding myself, "They weren't sailing into battle with the integrated bridge setup from the APL Agate. It's similar, but it isn't the same."
Good show as always Guys, going to have to watch it again, Life for some reason kept getting in the way. Bless all. AW, I bet Bill could smoothie in there in an Ohio Class with no sweat!
Put the rudder over, go to sleep, and have the OOD wake me when we were on our new course....
@@william_toti Physics is hard to overcome, but ever watch a really big Gator sneak up to the shore, most wouldn't know it's there.
@@william_toti P.S.- and those are one seriously Big, Mean Gator !
As always another great show gentlemen.
Fantastic episode. My grandfather was a gunner on the USS Honolulu CL48. He talked about these battles but he would not have known the big picture. They put down lots of troop carriers--he said the soldiers were like ants in the water as they went through them. But getting the bow blown off the Honolulu was his best story.
Lol This is like Monday Night Football early Tuesday morning!
One of the best. Thanks.
Brilliant work guys. Keep 'em comin'!
Maps, great idea. If you can increase the point size of the pointer, it would be easier to distinguish from the lettering on the map and easier on the eyes to follow. Great content and looking forward to your next video. Thank you for sharing this slice of history.
WILCO
Looking forward to your shows every week. Can't wait until a more in depth show on torpedo problems and the clowns who were responsible.
Another outstanding report on a mostly overlooked naval battle. Very much appreciated the whale boat/ life raft story - and the camaraderie between you two. The maps are great - mostly I listen while walking, but I'm happy to take a break to orient to the maps. They are very helpful.
You guys explain things well. Example “ ground clutter “ on radar. WhileI I have long understood what that means, I think that Mr. Toti explained it succulently and clearly. That is important in teaching.
🎉
I think you mean succinctly, not succulently
thanks again for another great job.
Another great episode. Thanks guys.
Excellent, as usual. Congratulations on 10+
The inclusion of maps is extremely helpful in understanding the context. Thank you.
Each episode is an improvement over the last. The maps are a great aid. At the low speed setting the IJN type 93 range was over 40,000. I wonder if the Japanese used that lower-speed setting? I believe the IJN surface radar had a range of about 11 miles. It seems that it was August of 1943 when the Japanese started adding surface radar to their ships. That was one amazing torpedo shot on the USS Strong
Nicely done, both the story and the maps. An interesting bit of WWII history.
Another great episode. Thank you! In the post war period did the navy or anyone else compile a list of the total number of ships that were hit by the Long Lance throughout the war? Greetings from Malaysia.
Another Beauty! One after the other. Keep em coming boys!
The Brooklyn-class light cruiser were commissioned just before the Cleveland Class. They had 5 triple (152 mm)/47 caliber Mark 16 gun turrets (compared with Cleveland's 4 triple turrets). They had inferior fire control equipment than the Cleveland's but essentially the same gun. They were rated at ten rounds or better per gun per minute in some ships. In certain firings they were known to smoother a target with 138 6-inch shots being fired in one minute. The USN considered the Mark 16 gun gun ships, until they developed fully automatic eight inch guns installed on the Des Moines class, to be superior in fire power to the heavy cruisers.
Another great episode guys. I look forward to Tuesday mornings just for your podcasts. I can't help but wonder where the US submarines are in this battle. Too shallow?
Yes. In those days the submarines were sent on "independent ops". Way hard to not hit the wrong target in a melee.
Another great show. The stories are phenomenal
The maps are incncredibly helpful. Thank you for your efforts.
The biggest enema of your life....never thought of it that way 😂
As expected, you gentlemen present your increible expertise once again. I am greatly appreciative of your effort.
Excellent presentation about an episode in the war about which I knew nothing.
Great as usual. Thanks.
If you were looking for action, USS Helena is the ship to be on! Thanks for the in depth military history! BTW, @32:00 talking about ground clutter on Radars, I love it! My Navy rating was ET and I was a Radar tech in the 1980s on a cruiser with an SPS-10 Radar which seems like it dates close to WW2 tech, lol.
Thank-You!
Congrats on 10k subs!!
Excellent presentation. Really enjoyed the history.
Excellent!
Bill! The maps are awesome!!
Thanks for the excellent history lesson.
Love the podcast, but the YT vids with maps add so much to the understanding of the presentation.
Just discovered you guys.
Amazing level of knowledge and detail.
@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar These guys make informative, well researced and properly edited content. But they still manage it to be easy to listen and highly entertaining. Seth, your skills in narrative are 2 magnitudes above and beyond what historian "should" have.
Well done gentlemen.
Absolutely the best narrative of what went on in the pacific war.
Thank you for your excellent explanation of this battle. It is the best I ever heard. I can’t recall I’d Hornfischer’s “Neptune’s Inferno” went this far into 1943, but I don’t remember reading about a lot of the interesting details you present.
Thank you, thank you for the maps!
I love the podcast - a super big thank you. Maybe this has been asked, but would you consider an episode on coast watchers? These guys had guts! An experience not at all like Cary Grant's portrayal in the movie "Father Goose". I can't imagine how they avoided getting caught. I assumed some did not and the consequences must have been brutal. Also, can you recommend a good book(s) on the lives and experiences of the coast watchers in the south pacific. Thank you!
36:00 There was an instituionalized disbelief at the time that the Japanese Long Lance was as capable as it was, much like BuOrd refused to believe there was anything wrong with our own torpedoes. This was partially driven by an attitude of exceptionalism and partially by racism. Even after several disastrous encounters, commanders would attribute Long Lance strikes to mines or unseen subs.
This underestimation could have been rectified earlier, but it took a long time to recover an intact torpedo.
"Fiji nationals?" That is forgotten history and deserves an episode.
Thanks!
Absolutely topnotch!
Carlton Wright achieved even more notoriety after the disaster at Port of Chicago, CA. Ordinance transfer station East of the Carquinez Straits on August 17th 1944. The Admiral court martialed 50 Black USN stevedores that were jailed for mutiny for refusing to load unsafely Ordnance. Navy disregard for safety in ordnance handling resulted in another `accident´ four months later in the following November.
By this point in the war, anyone claiming ignorance of the Long Lance is in competent.
It’s my understanding that Admiral Ainsworth knew Japanese destroyers had long-lance torpedoes, but that he and his staff did not know the their exact range. The thinking was that the long-lance had a range of 6,000-7,000 yards, so Ainsworth’s plan of battle was to have light cruisers USS Helena, USS Honolulu and USS St. Louis engage the enemy from a distance of 8,000 yards (which would be beyond Japanese torpedo range) and overwhelm the Japanese with 6” gun-fire. Unfortunately, Ainsworth & staff were wrong (not the only error made during the battle) about the range of the long-lance and USS Helena paid the price.
Nice to see the maps. Makes a big difference.
Shout out to Glen Barry Davis, USNA Class of 1976, former Deck Captain of the USS Ranger and my former brother-in-law and childhood hero. He passed away in 2016, many years too soon.
Thank u
Thanks
My Dad Was on Enterprise, until today I had not known the carry over from Guadulecanal Thank You Gentelmen!
Week after week, show after show, the complete and utter ineptitude of our fighting forces overseas is highlighted. How did we ever win the war ?
Another superb episode gentlemen. As you continue the saga of the war in the Pacific, I hope that you will begin to plan for a pair of sequels on the war in the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. It would be a huge disappointment to see you end these magnificent presentations with the surrender in Tokyo Bay.
Hear, hear.
But I'm a Pacific sailor!