My Henry .22lr was having a cold bore flyer that was a few inches high and left. Useless for hunting small game, so I cleaned it really well. Scrubbed the barrel with oil and a brass brush and got the barrel and chamber looking new. With the ammo I'm using I no longer have the problem. That rifle is going to be a squirrel slayer this fall.
Sam, I have been hunting and shooting for 43 years and hand loading for 32 years. Just started PRS style shooting, your comprehensive knowledge on this subject is quality information. In starlight talk, you know what the hell your talking about. Thanks.
Incredibly useful information, and presented in a manner that makes sense and "sticks". No BS, no smoke and mirrors; you tell it like it is and it's all based on facts, experience, and performance-based. A welcome and refreshing departure from the "infomercials" that abound on RUclips! Thanks Sam!
I just found your YouTUbe channel and really enjoy it! I'm an old man who has always sighted my rifles in with cold barrels because I couldn't see any reason not to. I usually sight in 2 or 3 rifles at the same time and I keep a paper target for each rifle at the bench and mark the hits while I wait for the barrels to cool. If I make a shot and the crosshairs are not where they should be when the the rifle fires I make a note where it hit and write "me" by it. I have 2 off the shelf deer rifles that will shoot .375" groups @ 100 yds with cold barrels and my reloads. I reload exactly like ya'll do. My other 4 deer rifles will all shoot less than 1" groups. I've known many deer hunters who were sure they missed a deer but they could never remember where the crosshairs were when their rifle fired. I've found a lot of dead deer that those hunters were sure they missed.
Doesn't matter, modern precision rifles are designed to be the most accurate at cold bore with clean rifling. If anything, heating them up and getting them dirty is what makes their accuracy go down.
Thanks for another great information filled video. Something that causes problems I have seen on a couple occasions is when someone heats their barrel up sighting in and then immediately start slow shooting for groups. They will fire and instantly work a new round into the chamber. Then they will take 30 seconds or more to fire again and the round in the hot chamber is absorbing heat the whole time. This can change the powder burn rate on some powders quit a bit. True cold bore shots for cold weather hunt prep should include cold gun and ammo. Same with a clean bore sight in if you are ocd and are gonna have a clean bore when hunting.
Really awesome video Sam. It's nice to watch someone who knows what they are doing. It's all about eliminating variables, making a plan, change but do not over change and keep the ego in check while doing so.
Dig dang it! Hit the send button before I was finished. To continue; Many competent professionals in the Medical field, and pretty much any field, have differing opinions. You, Sam, do some things that other instructors do not agree with. Not many, but whenever you differ, you give the most common sense and easily understandable explanations and the reasons for "The Way It's Done In Your World" I am so glad but you are a "Clear and Present" resource. (I think I suffer from Father Envy) Keep up the great work!
Great information Sam!! I really like to use a 3/4" florescent green circle dot on the center of the bullseye. The black dot and sometimes the black lines on the target can hide my crosshair. That bright green dot doesn't do that and it's easily seen, making the crosshair really visible. If I'm shooting further than say 100 yards, I'll go to a bigger dot that is proportionate to the distance that I'm shooting. Just my two cents on how I like to have my targets look. It works for me, may not work for others. Thanks for sharing!! Stay well. Good Luck Jake!!
I agree that although it is not practical in a hunting situation, a dry fire exercise is always beneficial prior to shooting load development groups. Great vid!
Without question Sir, you are a master and your passion for precision is unmatched by any other RUclipsrs. I have been keeping records similar to yours but nowhere nearly as brutal. I look forward to your next video.
I would like to say thank you for all the video's you do , I must hold my hands up and say I quit often forget to like as I can't wait to get to the next video, I will try harder. Well done and keep them going.
Excellent summary of what CAN be a controversial topic. I've always maintained that the cold barrel shot is the most important...particularly when in hunt mode, but you explained it in a way that makes sense. The squirrels are out in NE Oregon, so I'm reloading a 22-250 for longer ranges. I ran out of shells Sunday afternoon...more squirrels than bullets on a ranch close to town. Thank you for being willing to share your invaluable knowledge with us.
Great straight talk! I find myself chasing my zero a lot. I will try your suggestions. For me it's all about the hunt as well so this made perfect sense to me. Keep the great video's coming man!
I agree adamantly. We all screw up! And this nut behind the butt is no different. I'll often times set up my GoPro so that I can examine what I'm doing and evaluate in order to be better. I do not hunt at long ranges so I'm really not a good advisor for this. But our sport is a sport of consistency in every detail. Shooter and rifle both. Good video Sam!
Awesome advise and thanks for putting up these vids....I use a Caldwell DFT lead sled to take out "Me" from the equation....you still have to use good form, smooth straight pull until trigger break but it really helps a lot.
Nice video and sage advice! I'm a hunter too, and more of a hunter than a shooter. I've always strived to shoot tight groups from the bench or off my Primos trigger sticks at 50 yards. But instead of a zero, I've used the 1 to 1 1/2 inch high at 50 yards. Sadly, in hunting situations, my misses are legendary at close range! I may now start striving for that "cold bore" zero at 50!
I've been shooting high power for a couple of decades. I've made Presidents 100 as well as gone double distinguished. I'll tell you with 101% certainty that dry fire practice is key to consistent, precision long range shooting. The ability to call shots as well as know your lock time offset is essential practice. Very rarely do I not call an almost perfect placement now. It's actually how I tell when I have either a load issue or when my barrel may be reaching it's end of life. We have the top Jr shooter in the country on our team. He gets home from school and dry fires for an hour every night. He's setting records already after only two years in the sling. Do it and get better!
great video; remember all those little things from basic marksmen ship training, in basic 1970... from sitting on the ground, kneeling no "bone on bone", two breaths on the third exhale 1/3 and squeeze..., standing, sling around the support arm, firing arm elbow up... yeh I remember...
I've gotten out of the habit now, but I was using a rifle data book to record my cold bore hits on the 260. I agree with leaving the zero adjustment alone after you find a load. If you have a consistent offset on your bullet impact after going to the range on several outings, then go ahead and make a zero adjustment.
Thanks Sam, have to agree on dry fire...the first time I tried it I saw the reticle move and said WTH just happened? I realized I was not pulling the trigger straight back. I shoot a very wide range of rifles and triggers and I think it hurts me. I would love it if all my rifles had the very same trigger but that is my choice.
It is true that some days we "feel" good about our shots, and days, we don't... And at the beginning of the year, especially with big magnums, we tend to flinch a little bit, but it goes away after shooting a few shots...
I also read a book by an old military sniper who recommended cleaning with hoppes#9 wet patch dry patch to remove carbon only after each range session to prolong barrel life. If you do this your cold bore shot will usually hit in a slightly different spot then main group an can be logged an accounted for when you see the pattern. Say your rifle always puts first shot low at 5 o'clock an the next shot dead on. Well you can adjust for that. I do it this way because I'm not hunting but shooting for sport an the idea of making my barrel last way longer than someone who shoots, puts the rifle away dirty, then shoots again though a carboned up barrel over an over again eventually will pit his barrel up an ruin accuracy faster.
I agree with Ziptie 06. A true cold-bore shot needs to be from a fouled barrel. If your barrel is free floated and your action and stock/chassis are not moving in relation to one another, cold-bore shots should be the same point of impact as the rest of your group. But, clean bore shots will affect the way the bullet engages the lands and how the bullet is engraved; this will always reliably change your point of impact. Anecdotally, it takes about 5 rounds to appropriately foul a clean bore. Conversely, a very dirty bore will also change point of impact. I always clean my bore every 50-100 rounds or so, that’s just me with my guns. Hot cartridges and magnums will leave more copper fouling and, thus require more frequent cleaning. For example, if your shooting >3000fps, I would clean every 25-30 rounds. The frequency of cleaning is also dependent upon how good the finish in your bore is. A custom lapped bore will tolerate more rounds between cleaning than a factory “off the shelf” bore. There are lots of opinions about this stuff. This is just my practice base on my experience.
I spent a but of time getting my no.1 7 rem mag zeroed. I gave up becsuse i was tired of the recoil beating me up. Next time i shot that rifle i thought i missed. I hit the dead center of the diamond of the bullseye. Cant do it again, but man that shot made me feel cool
Cold bore shot problems can be caused by oil in the barrel, I used to wipe out my barrel with Methylated Spirits before shooting which stopped this problem. Now, using the advice from Nathan Foster, I use a CRC 350 wet patch as the next to final part of cleaning, then dry patch it out which still leaves a protective layer, and you can shoot straight over it with no change of impact.
A lot of data....that's the key. Keep your targets, make notes on them like he says. It's the only way to make sense of things. After everything is sorted out with regard to loads and cold vs. warm barrel, first shot predictability, etc., then practice off the bench as you would find yourself in a hunting condition; standing, sitting, leaning against a tree, prone off of a backpack, off of sticks, etc. Simulate the field and keep records. We most often don't get a follow up shot.
Man I saw that hole puncher in your other hand, lol, your awesome brother, love your videos, if there’s one that right it’s the way you show your accuracy ✌🏼
Totally agree. We need to stop just measuring groups. Instead, it would provide better data to stack / overlap multiple (10 or so) 3 shot groups lined up with point of aim. Its critical to take into account point of impact shift as well as group size. We should probably be using mean radius instead of group size. The cold bore shot is the most important shot for hunters!
Excellent advice. Trigger "press" wording gets to me though. I know that is the new normal, but I'm still pulling the trigger, not pressing it. I also shoot sub 1/2 moa 10 shot groups as well. Good stuff man. Not enough good shooters on youtube, but you seem to get it..
We see the world from the hole we are sitting in :) When seal hunting or other out on windy salt sea with a black steel barrel one need a little oil in the barrel to prevent rust. Too mush oil will make a change in impact point and so on.
I agree. I've also not seen "cold bore" make a difference. I think your cold bore shot can be out of your group for reasons unrelated to the rifle though. For instance, if you are shooting with a rear bag and it isn't compacted properly, your first shot may be low.
Yup most of the time it’s the shooter. That first shot in the morning is usually it for the day. Bring it home and start cutting it up. I like to shoot at least a five shot group as well. Time and money spent on the range is never wasted🇨🇦🤠
6:35 I'm doing this now. My rifle, scope, load, & suppressor combo is dead on. I'm sticking with my load and have been just running to the range for a few shots here and there. One shot at a dot at 100 "normally some else's target that was left up with a clean 1/4" dot" I'll hit the dot to confirm zero. Then a few shots at 300 at some steal that's hanging then pack it all up and go home. I have a video on here of my Berger 135 Classic hunters at 590. The Geo Ballistics app paired with my Kestrel put me right on. I love having equipment that will stay where I put it, so far my combo does just that.
For the most CONSISTENT cold bore shots before hand loading tumble your bullets with HBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride). HBN powder will let you have your 1st cold bore shot be in the same group as your subsequent 4 shots. BUT... you will need to increase your powder load to get back up to the original velocity. That's because HBN is so slippery that it doesn't permit quite enough bullet friction (to slow the bullet) to allow for pressure to immediately build to the necessary level. See G. David Tubb's website and the "Long Range Only" RUclips video to learn more about HBN. HBN lowers barrel temperature and it is heat that is the killer of barrel life, so yes, you will get longer barrel life using HBN. Talk about "Pixie Dust" for shooting!
Sam, love your videos very informative, you mentioned verifying your paralax. I guess I had never thought of this can you elaborate on this at some point please?
Douglas Williams keep your rifle still and wiggle your head around. if the parallax is set properly than the reticle will stay on the same spot on the target. setting the knob till the target is clear is wrong, setting the knob to the range it has written on it is wrong... you must do the head wiggle method to get it set correctly.
I can't agree more with dry firing, it will tell you if you're having a problem, and when you're doing everything right it instill's confidence. Correct me if I'm wrong because I don't mind being told I'm wrong lol, but it's been my experience that most right handed shooters, if they are pulling off due to poor trigger squeeze, the shot is gonna be to the right. I'm right handed so I'm always extra cautious if I'm off to the right to make sure it wasn't me making a poor trigger squeeze.
I saw a older gentleman at the range using air duster between shots spraying it down the boar. And I was curious so at the next cease fire I asked him why he was doing it and he said to cool the gun off to make multiple cold bore shots to get the gun ready for elk season it was a light barreled. 300 wetherby. Have you ever heard of this before?
If your rifle is heavily fouled with copper your zero will move as the bore heats up. I had the opportunity prove this theory on a rifle that copper fouls quickly, 220 SWIFT with a thin light hunting barrel. After getting all the copper out all was good.
Gives me a warm feeling seeing those targets that fit a "three ring" binder. I have the "disease" too. Do you label the sections and include load data?
what about the difference between taking a cold bore shot as opposed to shooting a "fouler" after cleaning the barrel? I understand from one of your other videos that you don't recommend cleaning until it's necessary - "the gun tells you". As a bech rest shooter, my thought / practice has always been to shoot a fouling shot after cleaning and dry patching before going for a group....I see a difference between these two and frequently do not "clean until needed" - but always shoot one fouler....next time I'm going to try that first shot cold bore and see how it goes. Nice video.
I call it a cold oily bore shot. Most of my Sporter weight barreled guns do this. The 1st shot is high at around 1:30, 1.5"-2.0", next shot is about 1/2"-3/4" at 1:30, 3rd shot on the money. This is negligible with my target weight barreled guns though. I believe it's more due to an oily bore, and velocity is usually measured fairly high this 1st shot.
I have found no issues with my rifles shooting different on the first round unless the gun is new or has been heavily cleaned. Then its takes 2-3 shots to foul it and I am good to go.
I have a Remington model 700 7 millimeter Magnum. It is Factory out of the box I've done nothing to it. My first cold-bore shot has always constantly been 1 inch left and a half an inch low at a hundred yards. After that I'm in the crosshairs every time. That's not a big deal being a humble Deer Hunter here in the state of Tennessee. But long range shooting is what I enjoy and what I would like to get into the Chattanooga does not have the resources for anything past 500 yards. I still keep doing the math though.
Hey Sam. Just getting into the precision loading part of things. Got the Hornady OAL gauge, bullet comparator kit, headspace gauge kit, and the anvil base. I waited on ordering the modified cases because I wanted to use my own to get a more accurate measurement. Is there anyway you can tap and die my cases? Would gladly pay you for the time and doing it right. I have a 223, 240 wby, 7mm-08, 280 rem, and a 7-300 win mag.
I've tried taking dry fires and it's made no difference. I think the stock and barreled action are moving with respect to each other. But another thought I've read is to fire 10 shots and see if your first shot falls inside the group. It may be that your rifle just isn't that accurate.
Just a clarification...there is cold fire and wet fire. In my experience the first shot after cleaning is always off but I know you are not a big believer in “over” cleaning. My experience with cold fire is like yours BUT after a few months that first shot gets wonky again...
I must be the most boring shooter around. I have been doing everything the same way for ages. I haven't changed my bullet loads by a single granule of powder or the tiniest fraction of an inch in perhaps fifteen years. Every case goes through the exact sizing and loading procedure as the case before it. Every time I go out to shoot my rifle barrel bore has been scrubbed so clean that it shines like chrome. Consistency is the Golden Rule, so when one of my shots is off the mark there is nothing to blame but myself. I pay no attention to those worries about the cold shot or the fouling shot. To me those are just excuses. I know the capabilities of my rifles and the quality of my reloads precisely because I am such a boring shooter and because I always do everything the same way. However, when shooting time comes, variety is the spice of life. We shoot in the mountains and may shoot uphill or downhill, across canyons and streams, and at distances from a hundred yards to well beyond a thousand yards. We might shoot from different elevations several times in a day in changing conditions. We are definitely not boring at shooting time. We crank the elevation and windage dials on our scopes far more often than anyone I have ever met. This is to me what shooting is all about. This true test of your equipment and skills is to shoot sub-MOA consistently at every distance capable for your caliber.
A guy at the rifle range was complaining how the rifled he just bought was no good and they must not have bore sighted it good and general cuss words all about how that gun was no good don't buy one So I say well lets see if I can help and I set it on the bench look down the bore then thru the scope and I'll be darned it looked dead on Take a round and line it up on the bullseye thinking maybe the ammo is no good then proceed in shooting two almost bulls eyes into a 1/2 inch group He is looking at the group then he exclaims, Well you're one of them trick shot guys is all that is LMAO Instead of admitting all of the problem was his own fault he blames it on me for being one of them trick shot guys whatever the hell that is LOL I would see that a whole lot at the rifle ranges people who did not want to admit they just never had any experience shooting a rifle to begin with and just needed some instruction on how to do it right They did not even want that and they would say, I know how to shoot a rifle it is not me it is this rifle LOL
I don't worry about a cold bore shot too much. I have rifles that shoot better out of a dirty barrel and others that don't care if the barrel is clean or fired shots, the always shot well ( if i do my part. So many shooters keep chasing the shot on the target and this just does their heads in and they blame the gun not themselves.
At the range I see also many shooters who blame themselves all the time even when it's not their fault.They will waste a lot of time before making some progress. Shooting prone or from a bench are the most steady positions, your gear accuracy can easily become the limiting factor so it's very important to test it. Once you know your rifle accuracy it become way easier to see your own errors and improve your shooting (trigger pull, position, wind reading...)
Well, if you have a good barrel it's easy to say that "cold bore shot" or "clean bore shot" doesn't exist. I have many bolt rifles, with most of them the 1st shot is in the group. But I have another rifle in 6.5CM with a match barrel that always sends the first shot 1 inch to the left (clean shot barrel). Since it always happens with this rifle and never with the others I'm sure it's not me !
Why is it so hard to get single digits extreme spread in muzzle velocity? I'm using 4 times reloaded lake city brass. 44.2g Varget cci br2 primers, Berger 168g Hunter classic bullets. All brass trimmed, neck sized only. .020 thou off lands. Getting great 100 yard groups an good m.v. (2,750) out of a 22 inch barrel with 1:11 twist. Using magnospeed with a can. Rcbs gold dies. E.s. like in the 20's-30's. :-(
Eric Cecil Yes I turned necks an anneal after third firing. Trimmed to 2.005 Can moving .05 thousanths closer to lands or seat .05 thousanths deeper in case make much difference.?
em Burgess are your loads compressed? I tend to find Varget likes compression as do some other powders. It could be a multitude of variables though. Case prep is the single thing that you have the most control of however (primer pocket depth, primer seating, flash hole uniformity, annealing, neck tension etc). Also may want to consider if you aren't already sorting your bullets. I've seen where some people sort by weight and some by bearing surface length by using two sets of bullet comparators on both anvil of your calipers. Just some thoughts.
If I could answer that for you in a simple paragraph, I'd sell it. That printout is from my first 338 Edge +P. I was using unsorted Remington 300RUM cases necked up to 338, CCI 250 primers, and weighed the charge on an RCBS 1500 scale. Those shots came from new brass. Nothing was sorted, weighed, turned, or annealed. I seated at .010" off the lands, and kept it there for the life of the barrel without adjusting the powder charge. I truly believe it has as much or more to do with the barrel itself, and the mixture of components that it likes. All you can do is try different combinations until you find something it likes or you kill the barrel and try another one. That defies logic at times, but I've seen it over and over. Chasing single-digit E.S. will leave you frustrated and broke.:-)
You may go up or down with your charge weight by a couple tenths and achieve better ES's. That has worked for me several times. As little as a tenth grain can change the ES on some rifles, but not all.
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
I have dry fired at distance on elk, when I had the time.... Worked great.
😂
You are by far the best instructor I have seen on RUclips. Zero! Ego! I have learned over the years (I'm old with lots of Doctor Experience)
Most are, Noobie "Hacks" just going for Clicks ! *** THIS Guy,.. knows what, he's talking about !!
My Henry .22lr was having a cold bore flyer that was a few inches high and left. Useless for hunting small game, so I cleaned it really well. Scrubbed the barrel with oil and a brass brush and got the barrel and chamber looking new. With the ammo I'm using I no longer have the problem. That rifle is going to be a squirrel slayer this fall.
A real instruction video. Thanks.
Sam, I have been hunting and shooting for 43 years and hand loading for 32 years. Just started PRS style shooting, your comprehensive knowledge on this subject is quality information. In starlight talk, you know what the hell your talking about. Thanks.
Incredibly useful information, and presented in a manner that makes sense and "sticks". No BS, no smoke and mirrors; you tell it like it is and it's all based on facts, experience, and performance-based. A welcome and refreshing departure from the "infomercials" that abound on RUclips! Thanks Sam!
I just found your YouTUbe channel and really enjoy it! I'm an old man who has always sighted my rifles in with cold barrels because I couldn't see any reason not to. I usually sight in 2 or 3 rifles at the same time and I keep a paper target for each rifle at the bench and mark the hits while I wait for the barrels to cool. If I make a shot and the crosshairs are not where they should be when the the rifle fires I make a note where it hit and write "me" by it. I have 2 off the shelf deer rifles that will shoot .375" groups @ 100 yds with cold barrels and my reloads. I reload exactly like ya'll do. My other 4 deer rifles will all shoot less than 1" groups. I've known many deer hunters who were sure they missed a deer but they could never remember where the crosshairs were when their rifle fired. I've found a lot of dead deer that those hunters were sure they missed.
Call your shots!👍🏻
The information you just laid out earned you a subscriber!!
Sometimes folks confuse cold bore shot with first round out, post cleaning.
Kind of different things.👍
Love the videos Sam.
Doesn't matter, modern precision rifles are designed to be the most accurate at cold bore with clean rifling. If anything, heating them up and getting them dirty is what makes their accuracy go down.
@@StuninRub are they also self lubricating?
@@zandemen What? Parents gave you too many chromosomes?
Sam. You are the man!
You actually took a "cold bore" and "dated it".
Thanks for another great information filled video. Something that causes problems I have seen on a couple occasions is when someone heats their barrel up sighting in and then immediately start slow shooting for groups. They will fire and instantly work a new round into the chamber. Then they will take 30 seconds or more to fire again and the round in the hot chamber is absorbing heat the whole time. This can change the powder burn rate on some powders quit a bit. True cold bore shots for cold weather hunt prep should include cold gun and ammo. Same with a clean bore sight in if you are ocd and are gonna have a clean bore when hunting.
Really awesome video Sam. It's nice to watch someone who knows what they are doing. It's all about eliminating variables, making a plan, change but do not over change and keep the ego in check while doing so.
Dig dang it! Hit the send button before I was finished. To continue; Many competent professionals in the Medical field, and pretty much any field, have differing opinions. You, Sam, do some things that other instructors do not agree with. Not many, but whenever you differ, you give the most common sense and easily understandable explanations and the reasons for "The Way It's Done In Your World"
I am so glad but you are a "Clear and Present" resource. (I think I suffer from Father Envy) Keep up the great work!
Great information Sam!! I really like to use a 3/4" florescent green circle dot on the center of the bullseye. The black dot and sometimes the black lines on the target can hide my crosshair. That bright green dot doesn't do that and it's easily seen, making the crosshair really visible. If I'm shooting further than say 100 yards, I'll go to a bigger dot that is proportionate to the distance that I'm shooting. Just my two cents on how I like to have my targets look. It works for me, may not work for others. Thanks for sharing!! Stay well. Good Luck Jake!!
Spot on Sam. So many supposed “errors” in equipment comes down to human error.
I agree that although it is not practical in a hunting situation, a dry fire exercise is always beneficial prior to shooting load development groups. Great vid!
Great video. Keeping your targets is invaluable.
Without question Sir, you are a master and your passion for precision is unmatched by any other RUclipsrs. I have been keeping records similar to yours but nowhere nearly as brutal. I look forward to your next video.
I would like to say thank you for all the video's you do , I must hold my hands up and say I quit often forget to like as I can't wait to get to the next video, I will try harder. Well done and keep them going.
Excellent summary of what CAN be a controversial topic. I've always maintained that the cold barrel shot is the most important...particularly when in hunt mode, but you explained it in a way that makes sense. The squirrels are out in NE Oregon, so I'm reloading a 22-250 for longer ranges. I ran out of shells Sunday afternoon...more squirrels than bullets on a ranch close to town. Thank you for being willing to share your invaluable knowledge with us.
Great straight talk! I find myself chasing my zero a lot. I will try your suggestions. For me it's all about the hunt as well so this made perfect sense to me. Keep the great video's coming man!
I agree adamantly. We all screw up! And this nut behind the butt is no different. I'll often times set up my GoPro so that I can examine what I'm doing and evaluate in order to be better. I do not hunt at long ranges so I'm really not a good advisor for this. But our sport is a sport of consistency in every detail. Shooter and rifle both. Good video Sam!
I am new here, just want to say love you videos, your technique is great, makes a person feel like you actually sitting here talk to me. Thanks.
Learned a lot from you great video brother! 👍
Awesome advise and thanks for putting up these vids....I use a Caldwell DFT lead sled to take out "Me" from the equation....you still have to use good form, smooth straight pull until trigger break but it really helps a lot.
Nice video and sage advice! I'm a hunter too, and more of a hunter than a shooter. I've always strived to shoot tight groups from the bench or off my Primos trigger sticks at 50 yards. But instead of a zero, I've used the 1 to 1 1/2 inch high at 50 yards. Sadly, in hunting situations, my misses are legendary at close range! I may now start striving for that "cold bore" zero at 50!
I love the first shot...
Love the work!
Look forward to graduating out of standard dies...
I like how you think, you make a lot of sense. Thanks for your videos!
✌️😎👍
Always good advice based on real world experience. I dig!!
I have done this for years too. It just made sense that when hunting it will be a cold bore. Nice that I am not alone in this thinking.
I've been shooting high power for a couple of decades. I've made Presidents 100 as well as gone double distinguished. I'll tell you with 101% certainty that dry fire practice is key to consistent, precision long range shooting. The ability to call shots as well as know your lock time offset is essential practice. Very rarely do I not call an almost perfect placement now. It's actually how I tell when I have either a load issue or when my barrel may be reaching it's end of life. We have the top Jr shooter in the country on our team. He gets home from school and dry fires for an hour every night. He's setting records already after only two years in the sling. Do it and get better!
But what about the cold bore shot? I tried half a dozen dry fires before firing my first real shot and it made no difference.
Thanks for the post , now i see how to better adjust or work the methods 👌
great video; remember all those little things from basic marksmen ship training, in basic 1970... from sitting on the ground, kneeling no "bone on bone", two breaths on the third exhale 1/3 and squeeze..., standing, sling around the support arm, firing arm elbow up... yeh I remember...
I've gotten out of the habit now, but I was using a rifle data book to record my cold bore hits on the 260.
I agree with leaving the zero adjustment alone after you find a load. If you have a consistent offset on your bullet impact after going to the range on several outings, then go ahead and make a zero adjustment.
Thanks Sam, have to agree on dry fire...the first time I tried it I saw the reticle move and said WTH just happened? I realized I was not pulling the trigger straight back. I shoot a very wide range of rifles and triggers and I think it hurts me. I would love it if all my rifles had the very same trigger but that is my choice.
It is true that some days we "feel" good about our shots, and days, we don't... And at the beginning of the year, especially with big magnums, we tend to flinch a little bit, but it goes away after shooting a few shots...
I also read a book by an old military sniper who recommended cleaning with hoppes#9 wet patch dry patch to remove carbon only after each range session to prolong barrel life. If you do this your cold bore shot will usually hit in a slightly different spot then main group an can be logged an accounted for when you see the pattern. Say your rifle always puts first shot low at 5 o'clock an the next shot dead on. Well you can adjust for that. I do it this way because I'm not hunting but shooting for sport an the idea of making my barrel last way longer than someone who shoots, puts the rifle away dirty, then shoots again though a carboned up barrel over an over again eventually will pit his barrel up an ruin accuracy faster.
"I know when i'm on and I know when i'm off" That is the ticket right there.
Epic channel. Wish i had found it a long time ago.
I agree with Ziptie 06. A true cold-bore shot needs to be from a fouled barrel. If your barrel is free floated and your action and stock/chassis are not moving in relation to one another, cold-bore shots should be the same point of impact as the rest of your group. But, clean bore shots will affect the way the bullet engages the lands and how the bullet is engraved; this will always reliably change your point of impact. Anecdotally, it takes about 5 rounds to appropriately foul a clean bore. Conversely, a very dirty bore will also change point of impact. I always clean my bore every 50-100 rounds or so, that’s just me with my guns. Hot cartridges and magnums will leave more copper fouling and, thus require more frequent cleaning. For example, if your shooting >3000fps, I would clean every 25-30 rounds. The frequency of cleaning is also dependent upon how good the finish in your bore is. A custom lapped bore will tolerate more rounds between cleaning than a factory “off the shelf” bore. There are lots of opinions about this stuff. This is just my practice base on my experience.
Great video and I really liked that picture at the end.
I spent a but of time getting my no.1 7 rem mag zeroed. I gave up becsuse i was tired of the recoil beating me up. Next time i shot that rifle i thought i missed. I hit the dead center of the diamond of the bullseye. Cant do it again, but man that shot made me feel cool
Another great video. Thanks Sam.
Excellent information, thanks
Cold shooter.. I agree!
I wouldn't go into the ring without warming up..
Cold bore shot problems can be caused by oil in the barrel, I used to wipe out my barrel with Methylated Spirits before shooting which stopped this problem. Now, using the advice from Nathan Foster, I use a CRC 350 wet patch as the next to final part of cleaning, then dry patch it out which still leaves a protective layer, and you can shoot straight over it with no change of impact.
That's a clean-bore shot problem, not a cold-bore shot problem.
I always dry fire on long range game shots. If I have the time to take a clean shot, I have the time to dry fire first.
A lot of data....that's the key. Keep your targets, make notes on them like he says. It's the only way to make sense of things. After everything is sorted out with regard to loads and cold vs. warm barrel, first shot predictability, etc., then practice off the bench as you would find yourself in a hunting condition; standing, sitting, leaning against a tree, prone off of a backpack, off of sticks, etc. Simulate the field and keep records. We most often don't get a follow up shot.
Excellent video👍👍
Man I saw that hole puncher in your other hand, lol, your awesome brother, love your videos, if there’s one that right it’s the way you show your accuracy ✌🏼
Totally agree. We need to stop just measuring groups. Instead, it would provide better data to stack / overlap multiple (10 or so) 3 shot groups lined up with point of aim. Its critical to take into account point of impact shift as well as group size. We should probably be using mean radius instead of group size. The cold bore shot is the most important shot for hunters!
Excellent advice. Trigger "press" wording gets to me though. I know that is the new normal, but I'm still pulling the trigger, not pressing it. I also shoot sub 1/2 moa 10 shot groups as well. Good stuff man. Not enough good shooters on youtube, but you seem to get it..
We see the world from the hole we are sitting in :) When seal hunting or other out on windy salt sea with a black steel barrel one need a little oil in the barrel to prevent rust. Too mush oil will make a change in impact point and so on.
I agree. I've also not seen "cold bore" make a difference. I think your cold bore shot can be out of your group for reasons unrelated to the rifle though. For instance, if you are shooting with a rear bag and it isn't compacted properly, your first shot may be low.
Love your videos. New to PRS and your advice saves me lots of time & money (haha). Keep them comin! *Subscribed*
Yup most of the time it’s the shooter.
That first shot in the morning is usually it for the day. Bring it home and start cutting it up. I like to shoot at least a five shot group as well. Time and money spent on the range is never wasted🇨🇦🤠
More great info, thanks Sam
Heya Sam. Brilliant chat!! Not everybody to appreciate but hey, i thrive on precesion
Agree 100%.....cold bore sighting.....1st shot is the only shot when hunting...
6:35 I'm doing this now. My rifle, scope, load, & suppressor combo is dead on. I'm sticking with my load and have been just running to the range for a few shots here and there. One shot at a dot at 100 "normally some else's target that was left up with a clean 1/4" dot" I'll hit the dot to confirm zero. Then a few shots at 300 at some steal that's hanging then pack it all up and go home. I have a video on here of my Berger 135 Classic hunters at 590. The Geo Ballistics app paired with my Kestrel put me right on. I love having equipment that will stay where I put it, so far my combo does just that.
"I need to dry fire more." Thanks!
awesome video great content thank you for sharing....
For the most CONSISTENT cold bore shots before hand loading tumble your bullets with HBN (Hexagonal Boron Nitride).
HBN powder will let you have your 1st cold bore shot be in the same group as your subsequent 4 shots.
BUT... you will need to increase your powder load to get back up to the original velocity. That's because HBN is so slippery that it doesn't permit quite enough bullet friction (to slow the bullet) to allow for pressure to immediately build to the necessary level.
See G. David Tubb's website and the "Long Range Only" RUclips video to learn more about HBN. HBN lowers barrel temperature and it is heat that is the killer of barrel life, so yes, you will get longer barrel life using HBN.
Talk about "Pixie Dust" for shooting!
I've got one that cold bore is off 3/4 inch right at 50 yds compared to the next 2 shots , I think it needs a new owner
Try firing 10 shots and see if your first shot now lies within the group.
@@robertbrandywine new gun , did a good barrel cleaning seems to have stopped that = cold bore hitting to the right
I'm guilty of adjusting scope when it was my error. great advice and thanks.
Give this video likes fellas! Great video and learn with every video. Keep up the great job
Sam, love your videos very informative, you mentioned verifying your paralax. I guess I had never thought of this can you elaborate on this at some point please?
Douglas Williams keep your rifle still and wiggle your head around. if the parallax is set properly than the reticle will stay on the same spot on the target. setting the knob till the target is clear is wrong, setting the knob to the range it has written on it is wrong... you must do the head wiggle method to get it set correctly.
Great reply. Thanks!
I can't agree more with dry firing, it will tell you if you're having a problem, and when you're doing everything right it instill's confidence. Correct me if I'm wrong because I don't mind being told I'm wrong lol, but it's been my experience that most right handed shooters, if they are pulling off due to poor trigger squeeze, the shot is gonna be to the right. I'm right handed so I'm always extra cautious if I'm off to the right to make sure it wasn't me making a poor trigger squeeze.
Great video
I saw a older gentleman at the range using air duster between shots spraying it down the boar. And I was curious so at the next cease fire I asked him why he was doing it and he said to cool the gun off to make multiple cold bore shots to get the gun ready for elk season it was a light barreled. 300 wetherby. Have you ever heard of this before?
I know this old, but yes they make barrel coolers or fans. As Sam said, when it comes to hunting, the cold bore shot is the most important.
If your rifle is heavily fouled with copper your zero will move as the bore heats up. I had the opportunity prove this theory on a rifle that copper fouls quickly, 220 SWIFT with a thin light hunting barrel. After getting all the copper out all was good.
Gives me a warm feeling seeing those targets that fit a "three ring" binder. I have the "disease" too. Do you label the sections and include load data?
Thanks man! It is very helpfull to listen and watch your videos! I have subscribed to your chanel!
Thanks, very helpful
Great videos. Sage advice.
Informative !!!
what about the difference between taking a cold bore shot as opposed to shooting a "fouler" after cleaning the barrel? I understand from one of your other videos that you don't recommend cleaning until it's necessary - "the gun tells you". As a bech rest shooter, my thought / practice has always been to shoot a fouling shot after cleaning and dry patching before going for a group....I see a difference between these two and frequently do not "clean until needed" - but always shoot one fouler....next time I'm going to try that first shot cold bore and see how it goes. Nice video.
Different things. We only talk about a cold-bore shot when the barrel hasn't just been cleaned.
Great info. Definitely learned a lot!
I call it a cold oily bore shot. Most of my Sporter weight barreled guns do this. The 1st shot is high at around 1:30, 1.5"-2.0", next shot is about 1/2"-3/4" at 1:30, 3rd shot on the money. This is negligible with my target weight barreled guns though. I believe it's more due to an oily bore, and velocity is usually measured fairly high this 1st shot.
We're talking about cold shots from a barrel that hasn't just been cleaned.
GREAT VIDEO! Thanks
Great video man. I was wondering what would you consider would be a good long range caliber for hunting deer that’s not a magnum caliber
Good stuff. Thanks!
I have found no issues with my rifles shooting different on the first round unless the gun is new or has been heavily cleaned. Then its takes 2-3 shots to foul it and I am good to go.
its usually not a cold bore being off its a fouling problem. some folks clean the bore after each shooting session. they will have the most problems.
yup.....you can track that too....i just dont clean the bore until it needs it...
Exactly a clean bore will affect the velocity of the first round fired
clean bore usually shot high .most snipers like to have fired 25 to 50 rounds before there cold shots //
I have a Remington model 700 7 millimeter Magnum. It is Factory out of the box I've done nothing to it. My first cold-bore shot has always constantly been 1 inch left and a half an inch low at a hundred yards. After that I'm in the crosshairs every time. That's not a big deal being a humble Deer Hunter here in the state of Tennessee. But long range shooting is what I enjoy and what I would like to get into the Chattanooga does not have the resources for anything past 500 yards. I still keep doing the math though.
john harvey have a gunsmith bed the recoil lug area of the rifle. That may take care of that first shot going different from the rest of the group.
Good advice.
Tubbs has some kind of coating for bullets that eliminates cold bore shots. That's what he said.
Hey Sam. Just getting into the precision loading part of things. Got the Hornady OAL gauge, bullet comparator kit, headspace gauge kit, and the anvil base. I waited on ordering the modified cases because I wanted to use my own to get a more accurate measurement. Is there anyway you can tap and die my cases? Would gladly pay you for the time and doing it right. I have a 223, 240 wby, 7mm-08, 280 rem, and a 7-300 win mag.
I've tried taking dry fires and it's made no difference. I think the stock and barreled action are moving with respect to each other. But another thought I've read is to fire 10 shots and see if your first shot falls inside the group. It may be that your rifle just isn't that accurate.
Just a clarification...there is cold fire and wet fire. In my experience the first shot after cleaning is always off but I know you are not a big believer in “over” cleaning. My experience with cold fire is like yours BUT after a few months that first shot gets wonky again...
I must be the most boring shooter around. I have been doing everything the same way for ages. I haven't changed my bullet loads by a single granule of powder or the tiniest fraction of an inch in perhaps fifteen years. Every case goes through the exact sizing and loading procedure as the case before it. Every time I go out to shoot my rifle barrel bore has been scrubbed so clean that it shines like chrome. Consistency is the Golden Rule, so when one of my shots is off the mark there is nothing to blame but myself. I pay no attention to those worries about the cold shot or the fouling shot. To me those are just excuses. I know the capabilities of my rifles and the quality of my reloads precisely because I am such a boring shooter and because I always do everything the same way.
However, when shooting time comes, variety is the spice of life. We shoot in the mountains and may shoot uphill or downhill, across canyons and streams, and at distances from a hundred yards to well beyond a thousand yards. We might shoot from different elevations several times in a day in changing conditions. We are definitely not boring at shooting time. We crank the elevation and windage dials on our scopes far more often than anyone I have ever met. This is to me what shooting is all about. This true test of your equipment and skills is to shoot sub-MOA consistently at every distance capable for your caliber.
I REALLY ENJOY your vid's. Please keep em coming. Are you a veteran?
👍thanks
A guy at the rifle range was complaining how the rifled he just bought was no good and they must not have bore sighted it good and general cuss words all about how that gun was no good don't buy one
So I say well lets see if I can help and I set it on the bench look down the bore then thru the scope and I'll be darned it looked dead on
Take a round and line it up on the bullseye thinking maybe the ammo is no good then proceed in shooting two almost bulls eyes into a 1/2 inch group
He is looking at the group then he exclaims, Well you're one of them trick shot guys is all that is LMAO
Instead of admitting all of the problem was his own fault he blames it on me for being one of them trick shot guys whatever the hell that is LOL
I would see that a whole lot at the rifle ranges people who did not want to admit they just never had any experience shooting a rifle to begin with and just needed some instruction on how to do it right
They did not even want that and they would say, I know how to shoot a rifle it is not me it is this rifle LOL
I don't worry about a cold bore shot too much. I have rifles that shoot better out of a dirty barrel and others that don't care if the barrel is clean or fired shots, the always shot well ( if i do my part. So many shooters keep chasing the shot on the target and this just does their heads in and they blame the gun not themselves.
At the range I see also many shooters who blame themselves all the time even when it's not their fault.They will waste a lot of time before making some progress. Shooting prone or from a bench are the most steady positions, your gear accuracy can easily become the limiting factor so it's very important to test it. Once you know your rifle accuracy it become way easier to see your own errors and improve your shooting (trigger pull, position, wind reading...)
So what is a acceptable time in between shots to be considered a cold bore ? Or is it a temp reading ??
Everything at ambient temp., however long that takes.
Sam, great quality and content. What muzzle break are you running on your big bores?
Well, if you have a good barrel it's easy to say that "cold bore shot" or "clean bore shot" doesn't exist.
I have many bolt rifles, with most of them the 1st shot is in the group. But I have another rifle in 6.5CM with a match barrel that always sends the first shot 1 inch to the left (clean shot barrel). Since it always happens with this rifle and never with the others I'm sure it's not me !
Have you tried the labradar chronograph? I'm in the market for a chronograph wondering if its worth the price compared to a magnetospeed?
Why is it so hard to get single digits extreme spread in muzzle velocity? I'm using 4 times reloaded lake city brass. 44.2g Varget cci br2 primers, Berger 168g Hunter classic bullets. All brass trimmed, neck sized only. .020 thou off lands. Getting great 100 yard groups an good m.v. (2,750) out of a 22 inch barrel with 1:11 twist. Using magnospeed with a can. Rcbs gold dies. E.s. like in the 20's-30's. :-(
em Burgess Possible neck tension issues? Are you annealing brass or turning necks?
Eric Cecil Yes I turned necks an anneal after third firing. Trimmed to 2.005 Can moving .05 thousanths closer to lands or seat .05 thousanths deeper in case make much difference.?
em Burgess are your loads compressed? I tend to find Varget likes compression as do some other powders. It could be a multitude of variables though. Case prep is the single thing that you have the most control of however (primer pocket depth, primer seating, flash hole uniformity, annealing, neck tension etc). Also may want to consider if you aren't already sorting your bullets. I've seen where some people sort by weight and some by bearing surface length by using two sets of bullet comparators on both anvil of your calipers. Just some thoughts.
If I could answer that for you in a simple paragraph, I'd sell it. That printout is from my first 338 Edge +P. I was using unsorted Remington 300RUM cases necked up to 338, CCI 250 primers, and weighed the charge on an RCBS 1500 scale. Those shots came from new brass. Nothing was sorted, weighed, turned, or annealed. I seated at .010" off the lands, and kept it there for the life of the barrel without adjusting the powder charge.
I truly believe it has as much or more to do with the barrel itself, and the mixture of components that it likes. All you can do is try different combinations until you find something it likes or you kill the barrel and try another one. That defies logic at times, but I've seen it over and over. Chasing single-digit E.S. will leave you frustrated and broke.:-)
You may go up or down with your charge weight by a couple tenths and achieve better ES's. That has worked for me several times. As little as a tenth grain can change the ES on some rifles, but not all.
My cold bore shot will hit the circle, but shots 2-5 will group one to two inches from the circle. Any suggestions?