Un-Folding a Quadcopter to Increase Efficiency - Part 1

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  • Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 1 тыс.

  • @matthewthomsondev
    @matthewthomsondev Год назад +670

    That moving X-ray overlay of the 3d design at 2:22 🔥

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад +85

      Thanks for noticing 😃

    • @halfeld
      @halfeld Год назад +15

      Oh yeah

    • @alienbeef0421
      @alienbeef0421 Год назад +10

      Real lit indeed

    • @halfeld
      @halfeld 11 месяцев назад

      I had a little bit too much fun doing some video transitions: ruclips.net/video/uxb8ACWtDkI/видео.htmlsi=BhoITlYh0DR6NczF&t=50 (similar project, btw.)
      Next time, an X-ray overlay. Great idea.

    • @EldariusGG
      @EldariusGG 11 месяцев назад +7

      Earned my sub instantly

  • @theserialinventor
    @theserialinventor Год назад +459

    The oscillations are due to the polyhedral on the wing. You're ending up in a Dutch roll situation. You might want to try unfolding further before pitching over for forward flight. Another option to consider is a Z shape instead of a U.

    • @richardm.newlands2417
      @richardm.newlands2417 Год назад +53

      Yup, I concur. And all that mass at the wingtips wobbling around is probably making it worse. Still, damn impressive!

    • @NelsonBrown
      @NelsonBrown Год назад +33

      I'm thinking he needs to dampen yaw oscillations with a control loop using differential thrust from the tip motors. The lack of vertical tail and huge dihedral make this especially Dutch-rolly.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад +118

      Might be that, combined with poorly tuned PID gains

    • @charleslambert3368
      @charleslambert3368 Год назад +6

      i'm guessing it would be fine to crank the damping values up quite a bit since you don't need much agility during the transition

    • @seanyfpv
      @seanyfpv Год назад +3

      it's effectively like having huge dihedral right? so there's a strong bias towards rolling back to center

  • @NatureSkyViews
    @NatureSkyViews Год назад +352

    I'd love to see this design "fully unfolded"

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад +42

      Hopefully soon!

    • @ethanhermsey
      @ethanhermsey Год назад +10

      The geometry of the plane seems off. I think it would lack roll/rudder authority for such a thin wing without sweep.. unless the software is very good :p

    • @herp_derpingson
      @herp_derpingson Год назад +3

      * ba dum tss *

    • @teitgenengineering
      @teitgenengineering Год назад +1

      ​@@ethanhermseythat's why he designed his own flight computer

    • @nasser6692
      @nasser6692 Год назад +1

      @@NicholasRehm
      I wish you success.

  • @sonodrome
    @sonodrome Год назад +105

    I can already imagine the full transition looking totally majestic! Really excited to see part 2, great work 👍💕

  • @thatwasinteresting3319
    @thatwasinteresting3319 7 месяцев назад +4

    Guys like you here on RUclips who are doing backyard/garage engineering give me great hope for the future. The things I see you do are amazing to me (a non engineer). I look forward to your next video and wish you great success in your future, but a guy as smart as you doesn't need luck.
    I am also impressed with the comments on this video too. Lot of seemingly smart helpful people out there.

  • @KurtacusRex
    @KurtacusRex Месяц назад +1

    If i may humbly suggest using a mechanism that builds up and releases tension to assist with motor transitions-similar to a crossbow slowly drawing back, then snapping forward. The stored energy can help unfold wings or other flight components quickly, overcoming wind resistance.
    Long time engineer, just getting into programming, but have preformed avionics repairs professionally.
    Excited to build some quad coptors with my kid from scratch.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Месяц назад

      Very good idea, maybe applied to a slightly larger version so the weight penalty of the additional components is less pronounced

    • @KurtacusRex
      @KurtacusRex Месяц назад +1

      @NicholasRehm That’s a great point! I was looking at the framework shown at 3:04 and thinking of a minor adjustment. Instead of adding many components, the plan would involve changing the wing joint's gear ratio, adding an internal cylinder to house a ratcheting spring or rubber band, and using the existing actuator. A small additional servo could be added to reset the ratchet and release the wings for re-folding.
      The new components would be minimal: light fishing line for the cable, the internal cylinder as negative space inside the wing, and lightweight rubber bands or springs. Are there any concerns with thrust and lift? It seemed like the power output was sufficient, I am curious how tight your weight ratio is now.
      If you trust random Google Doc links, I tossed a quick sketch with my outline in blue. Its a morning coffee quality doodle, just to get seek perspective on the implications of the weight penalties.
      drive.google.com/file/d/1nyM1ORi6uhWuGWod22X4buey0zI3kKcD/view?usp=sharing

  • @alexrogall4543
    @alexrogall4543 7 месяцев назад +44

    So where is part two. Im wanting more

    • @sjbr101
      @sjbr101 6 месяцев назад +3

      After 5 months I'm guessing this channel is dead 💀☠️

    • @1dK628
      @1dK628 6 месяцев назад

      Stroke

  • @bambitakesflight7345
    @bambitakesflight7345 Год назад +10

    Mate, I have been a follower since the start, I fly professionally in the DCL racing league, me and the guys love how you've been furthering the hobby! Keep going!

  • @Brian-S
    @Brian-S Год назад +8

    Can't wait for part 2 this is quite possibly my favorite project of yours yet. Such an amazing awesome design

  • @AnakinSkyobiliviator
    @AnakinSkyobiliviator Год назад +8

    With it being partially folded like that, it can't help but remind me a bit of Star Wars' V-19 starfighter! That aside, seems like a cool build!

  • @davemenheere8276
    @davemenheere8276 Год назад +24

    have you thought about having the wings fold upward? You could then use a "simple" strap in tension to keep the wing in its flying configuration. Just realized you could take your existing drone and fly it upside down 🙂Nice project! Good luck!

    • @truejim
      @truejim Год назад +7

      I had the same thought: make the wings fold in the other direction, with a stop at the joint to take the load, rather than asking the actuator to take the load.

    • @GodmanchesterGoblin
      @GodmanchesterGoblin Год назад +1

      Great idea. I guess it will depend on whether there is a stability or software advantage in an anhedral versus dihedral configuration during the transition phase.

    • @truejim
      @truejim Год назад +4

      @@GodmanchesterGoblin Intuitively it seems this approach would make transition even less stable, with the center of mass now being above the center of lift. There might be ways to overcome that problem.

    • @GodmanchesterGoblin
      @GodmanchesterGoblin Год назад +3

      @@truejim Agreed - but software control can sometimes benefit from an inherently unstable system since the corrective actions may be more consistent across a range of situations.

    • @PiefacePete46
      @PiefacePete46 Год назад

      @@truejim : That's the way I see it too. It might prove simpler to have a latch at the fully unfolded position. That is assuming there is a need for anything... if the linear actuator is not back-driveable, and it doesn't need to suck battery power to stay unfolded, I guess you would leave it alone.

  • @Pgr-pt5ep
    @Pgr-pt5ep Год назад +8

    The best vtol+unfolding winged quadcopter I've see is the PteroDynamics X-P4 Transwing. Their design is ingenious, especially the transition.

    • @kentonian
      @kentonian Год назад

      Was going to mention them, most promising design I’ve seen of a vtolwing

    • @ardaricus1566
      @ardaricus1566 Год назад

      Yeah the twist is real nice, makes it you don't have to sit on the tail. I wonder how much the mechanism weighs, though... Also, lack of hover efficiency is a concern for them as well as for nicholas

    • @Pgr-pt5ep
      @Pgr-pt5ep Год назад

      ​@@ardaricus1566 The PtroDynamics's transition genius is that fuselage stays flat regardless of flight mode, just like a V-22 osprey, but with the added quadcopter dynamics. And the folding joint is mechanically sound.
      Hover efficiency is not important as it's inherently inefficient anyway, hence the need for winged flight mode. Even so, the tilt in their quad-copter mode is maybe 5 degrees, so no reason it's much more inefficient that the standard quadcopter.

  • @I.no.ah.guy57
    @I.no.ah.guy57 11 месяцев назад +13

    Dude this is awesome, such a good idea and it looks like something from Star Wars. Theres so many folding ships they have. Cant wait to see this design optimized and flying well! And whatever else you think up!

    • @theiceisnice
      @theiceisnice 11 месяцев назад

      As far as Star Wars ships goes, this probably looks closest to an upside down "V-19 Torrent Starfighter".

  • @simedracing
    @simedracing 6 месяцев назад +49

    Any updates yet?

  • @sethpolevoi4027
    @sethpolevoi4027 Год назад +8

    Instead of having the wings fold up in a “U” shape, you could have them fold down in an “n” shape. This would make it stronger in the plane orientation because the bending forces would be fighting against a mechanical interference instead of the strength of the servos.

    • @YeshuaGod22
      @YeshuaGod22 Год назад

      glad someone said it!

    • @RanDStClair
      @RanDStClair Год назад

      I have built and flown the N shape. It worked, sort of, but had some problems. When hovering close to the ground yaw was uncontrollable because any cross wind makes it spin like the cup wheel of an anemometer.

  • @daemn42
    @daemn42 Год назад +1

    FWIW, APC makes two "folding pusher" (counter-rotating) props.. 5x5 and 9x5.
    And if you've got the power, you could try transitioning into "forward" flight by accelerating straight upward while unfolding the wing rather than trying to do it horizontally. The oscillations you're getting at half unfolding look like dutch roll oscillations. They *should* go away when the wing is full flat, but going to be annoying to get past.. without going straight up.

  • @paulogden7417
    @paulogden7417 Год назад +41

    This is a super cool project! Very excited to see the next video and hear how you smooth out the instability. Can this be done with SW only or will it take physical changes? CH change? A tail of some sort? Good luck!

    • @paulogden7417
      @paulogden7417 Год назад +3

      I have become intensely interested in transitioning EVTOL. This platform holds so much promise to create the new age of aviation where you can take off from your yard and fly hundreds of miles on electric power.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад +10

      Thanks!! It will definitely be a software fix, but there’s some hardware tricks we can play with to make that process a little easier. I’m thinking some removable horizontal tails to temporarily improve longitudinal stability. The end goal is actually an unstable wing in forward flight, since those can be even more efficient. Kavin @thinkflight has played with this idea quite a bit

    • @dfgaJK
      @dfgaJK Год назад +3

      @@NicholasRehm The whole concept of a VTOL, high aspect ratio, unstable wing is so appealing, it is the best of all worlds!
      I don't fully understand the advantage of having the center motors off in forward flight, I would have expected distributing the thrust across more motors would be more efficient. I guess with a decrease in tip motor speed there is a decrease in tip vortices reduction so maybe that is the tradeoff? Maybe you can explain more in the next part?

    • @AerialWaviator
      @AerialWaviator Год назад +4

      @@dfgaJK A wing requires ~1/3 the energy of an aircraft hovering on thrust alone to carry the same weight. Turning off motors reduces power, and increases flight time, efficiency. Folding props reduce drag. The other trick mentioned in the video is the propeller prop pitch is different between inner and outer motors. Inners are optimized to offer better hover performance, and the outers offer better fixed wing cruise performance.

  • @mscir
    @mscir Год назад +5

    Well done. I like hearing the details of 3d printing. I never heard of lightweight PLA before, good to know. Looking forward to episode 2.

  • @marpheus1
    @marpheus1 Год назад +24

    Not that you had problems with the wings buckling, but I wonder if is there any cons in folding the wings the other way. They wouldn't make it weird for landing, since it lands on it's "side" and could add a lot of strength to the joints, but I have no Idea if while half folded as a upside down V/U it would be less stable than a right side up V/U. If you could enlighten me about that, i'd appreciate it.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад +19

      I actually considered that and agree it would probably make the joint much stronger when fully deployed! I figured the dihedral could help through the transition, so that's why I decided to fold them down rather than up

    • @toolbaggers
      @toolbaggers Год назад +1

      @@NicholasRehm You can always just reverse the controls and fly 'inverted.'

    • @HonestAuntyElle
      @HonestAuntyElle Год назад

      @@toolbaggers That would make it difficult given the lift forces when in forward flight.

    • @oliverpolden
      @oliverpolden 11 месяцев назад

      Not sure such extreme anhedral would be a good idea. It would probably just flip over

    • @NTLBagpuss
      @NTLBagpuss 11 месяцев назад

      @@HonestAuntyElle would the lift forces actually help the wings open out into forward flight position? The issues I would see is folding back down to vertical flight you would be fighting against that lift.

  • @checkedoutchris
    @checkedoutchris 7 месяцев назад

    Fantastic! Love this one.
    I've been redesigning some of my linear actuators and playing with load rating them a bit. I'm glad to see use of linear actuators in this sort of application. Very impressive use of torque and lever action over that long distance. I'm surprised (impressed) how your printed materials stood up to the forces they had to endure.
    Great job!!

  • @cephalopogg
    @cephalopogg 11 месяцев назад +9

    This video is so well made and I love the design. Can’t wait for the next part!

  • @DomanStuff2022
    @DomanStuff2022 Год назад +14

    I was waiting for this video, but, honestly I wasn't expecting that. Very interesting choices... I'm waiting for full forward flight, and... lots of performance data! 🙂
    Also, Graupner makes quality folding L & R props form carbonfibre and glassfibre - I can recommend them.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      Do you have link to any counter rotating sets? I can't find any in their catalog, maybe not looking hard enough

    • @DomanStuff2022
      @DomanStuff2022 11 месяцев назад

      @@NicholasRehm you will be better of contacting graupner and asking them for a reseller. I find them locally and never online. You're looking for CAM FOLDING PROP.

  • @wearemany73
    @wearemany73 Год назад +6

    That’s the most StarWars thing I’ve ever seen, love it! 😮

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      I find myself accidentally building Star Wars looking things a lot lately… haha

  • @DanielKesslerer
    @DanielKesslerer Год назад +1

    Wow. Good on you for being patient with the forward flight transition and taking the time to tune. Keep going!

  • @petrolAura
    @petrolAura 6 месяцев назад +3

    it looks like darth vader spaceship when it's unfolding!! Good job!!

  • @poporbit2432
    @poporbit2432 11 месяцев назад +1

    Reverse the body locstion. the wings swing out and down as the craft transitions to forward flight? The hinges would be simple and dramatically stronger AS PASSIVE STOPS WILL CARRY THE LOAD. The motors always point in the correct orientation for tractor or pusher configuration.

  • @3DPrintHangar_RC
    @3DPrintHangar_RC Год назад +3

    I can't even count the amount of times I said "WOW" in astonishment! You're brilliant my good sir. It's a pleasure to watch this process👌

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      Really appreciate the compliment, thanks!

  • @Dogo.R
    @Dogo.R Год назад +1

    360 camera plus gyro for retaining orientation plus fpv = perfect irl flying 3rd person camera.
    Could even be made thin enough to slip into a backpack.

  • @ck2503
    @ck2503 Год назад +3

    Nice save @ 9:00. Can't wait for the next video.

  • @nommy8599
    @nommy8599 3 месяца назад

    Alternative:
    - 2 wing tips props, 1 tail prop
    - wing can rotate 90 deg
    - tail section can rotate 90 deg
    VTOL: wing and trail rotated vertically, works like 3 props drone
    Normal flight: wing and trail rotated horizontally. Maybe tail prop can collapse (and be drawn into the tail section perhaps with a cone on the prop closing to make it more streamlined).
    Might need large flaps on the tail to counter it pitching up as the tail transitions.
    Would love to see one! Hope you're well.

  • @alienbeef0421
    @alienbeef0421 6 месяцев назад +6

    damn bro went balls deep with this design he forgot to post another vid

  • @jameslmorehead
    @jameslmorehead 11 месяцев назад

    I'm not an RC plane guy, but I do live in the R&D world. The printing issues you are having are not down to just settings, but it also looks like you are having a moisture issue. I would highly recommend a dryer for your filament, which also acts as a pre-heater. The AMS on the X1C has no active heating and relies on a consumable desiccant packet that is not used evenly. Since the desiccant does not move, the outer pellets get used up while the inner are blocked. There are kits to mod the AMS with a small heating element to maintain a constant temperature inside the AMS. On our X1C, I have not been allowed to mod the AMS to have the heater, so I've added 3D printed desiccant pods that screw together inside each spool. This has kept up with our high humidity very well. As a bonus, filling the pods only 3/4 the way full also mixes the pellets as the spool turns, allowing the pellets to be used evenly. I used a color changing pellet, so when they are close to their maximum absorption, the pods are placed on the build plate, or on a sheet spaced off the build plate. The build plate is then heated to bring the internal air temperature of the chamber to 60 to 80C to bake the spools. This releases the water that the pellets absorbed. Every so often during this process, the pods are spun and placed back on their other end. This moves the pellets around and allows the hot, humid air out. This this method, we have not had to change the desiccant in the AMS since the pods were installed.
    Since the AMS is not the end all, be all of filament delivery, we also have a stand alone filament drier hooked into the X1C between the AMS and the feed input. This was as simple as printing a Y adapter and fitting everything up with Capricorn tubing and quality fittings. This does mean you have to manually load the filament from the drier, but if you are only using the one filament, that's not a big deal. This does give fine control over the storage and preparation conditions of the filament prior to printing. This makes printing with stuff like PEEK, TPA, PC, and the light weight PLA much easier and more consistent.
    One last point on my already long rant is a controversial one. But, it's one I've found very useful for structural prints. The prints greatly benefit from a post print annealing cycle. I know over the past few years, people have tried various methods to strengthen parts by using a powered substance to pack in and around the print, then bake the print at or slightly above the plasticizing temperature. While this can work, I don't think the rick and effort is worth the reward. What most people don't understand is that the plastic does not instantly go from solid to goo when you jump a degree at some point. The softening is more of an exponential curve, as is the plastic's strength. So, you can heat the print to a temperature higher than its operating temperature, but well below its plasticizing temperature, and increase the strength of the print in both the X/Y and Z planes. Bambu Labs even has a couple white papers on this. Plus, you can do this in your printer. You just need a rigid plate placed over the build plate, with a space between them. You will need some trial to get the build plate temperature perfect for the chamber's air temperature. You are shooting for a chamber temperature half to 2/3 the "melting" temperature of the material. This is held for 6 to 12 hours to allow the discontinuous plastic to naturally bond through various internal forces. When properly done, you will have a less brittle, but stronger print. This does take a while, so if you are not wanting to tie up you printer this long, you can always opt to get a cheap lab grade oven and add a PID to it. You can get a new oven with a volume slightly greater than the build volume of the X1C and a PID system for under $200.

  • @nacorti
    @nacorti Год назад +3

    Love watching your stuff! Stopped my entire morning to sit down with this video lol
    My guess is that during your transition, you're getting stalls at the tips of the wings and losing control authority from the aileron on the side of the stall. I'd venture that pitchAttitude + transitionWingDihedral > criticalAngleOfAttack. Combining those two angles obviously isn't a simple sum but I think you get my drift. Also, I bet that in a bank, the higher wing is stalling first, causing the bank to reverse, causing the other side to stall, and then you get into the observed oscillatory feedback loop
    Solution space I'd say is either a) redesign the wing to twist slightly as it gets closer to the tip to reduce AoA, or b) just slap some vortex generators on the outboard sections to increase the critical angle of attack.
    All in all though great video! Love seeing you draw inspiration from ThinkFlight, Tom Stanton, etc. Waiting eagerly for Pt 2!

    • @robinbennett5994
      @robinbennett5994 Год назад

      That's a good point. There's probably some serious pitch/roll coupling going on with all that dihedral and no fin.

    • @Brandon_SoMD
      @Brandon_SoMD Год назад +1

      This might be on point. I did some intern work at NASA 35 years ago on stall triggering devices, to enable flight at very high angles of attack without losing control. We tested a number of things, including vortex generators, "bug splitters" (wedges of sheet metal sticking out the front of the wing surface), roughening strips (like, 40-grit sandpaper) to energize the flow at different positions on the leading edge and upper surface, drooped leading edge segments in front of the ailerons (to decrease the local AOA), wing twist, leading edge slats, and more. It's an art, as much as a science; it was a matter of playing around to find the best solution for a given design.
      It almost seems like the best answer is simply higher speed in the partially-transitioned configuration to quickly get past that stalled regime, and only then transition the wing fold the rest of the way. Creeping up on the transition at slower speed is going to make things worse, I think.
      USNTPS FTM-103 (I mentioned in a previous comment) has a good section on stall issues.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      I’ll see if I can straighten it out in software, but some hardware tweaks like you suggested are definitely on the table

    • @nacorti
      @nacorti Год назад

      @@NicholasRehm A potential starting point here ruclips.net/video/kA1ENhxLqTo/видео.htmlsi=8Hok6ABoFGeW9CZr
      These guys have a similar AOA during transition, might be able to replicate their transition

  • @benmcreynolds8581
    @benmcreynolds8581 Год назад +2

    I can't wait to see this with a much faster transition mechanism so you could be a lot more dynamic with this awesome build. Really creative craft!!

  • @crystalclearwindowcleaning3458
    @crystalclearwindowcleaning3458 Год назад +6

    Your stuff is always so creative. And you do quality construction. Keep it up!

  • @ronaldglider
    @ronaldglider 11 месяцев назад +1

    I suggest to put the wing-hinges different from 90 degrees such to have the wings v-shape backward, like traditional flying wing designs - this will give much more stability for unfolded flying. To boot, you have have the propellers at same level when in drone configuration.
    This is a really cool project - good luck and load of success!

  • @joepopplewell680
    @joepopplewell680 Год назад +8

    Reminds me of the Ptero Dynamics Transwing drone, but theirs has the entire wing rotate in a unique way. Would be interesting to see a comparison of the two ways of approaching the same problem.

    • @DinGuSco
      @DinGuSco Год назад +3

      I thought the same... then thought this design might actually breach their patent as I believe its pretty comprehensive regarding the unfolding/rotation of complete wing assemblies when transitining from a VTOL to forward flight modes. Not sure if it would matter unless he is selling the design, but could be complicated if he makes money from the video on RUclips

    • @dronedevices
      @dronedevices Год назад +1

      We also thought the same, although it's definitely infringement on Amazon's "In-flight reconfigurable hybrid unmanned aerial vehicle" US patent 9550567B1. We had a RUclipsr infringe on our patent and never got a response back. He only stopped replying to comments, but he can be held liable for any funding which is more likely the only goal.

    • @freddybell8328
      @freddybell8328 11 месяцев назад

      ​@@DinGuScoTrue. They seem pretty chill though. They're open to other people using their patent.

    • @DMel2011
      @DMel2011 11 месяцев назад

      I think I can claim dibs on the folding wing concept 11 years ago for a DARPA’s Uavforge competition.
      ruclips.net/video/qya7MXR-rS0/видео.htmlfeature=shared
      I couldn’t patent cause I worked for an aerospace company. Pterodynamics concept is different and better and glad to see its progress!

  • @wills242
    @wills242 5 месяцев назад +1

    Awesome build dude. Really inspiring your ability to r&d solutions to the efficiency under diverse conditions and altitudes issue. Happily subscribed!
    Also, do carbon rods function similarly to steel rod just lighter? Are there any differences in performance of the pivoting parts?

  • @BRUXXUS
    @BRUXXUS Год назад +4

    Incredibly cool! The VTOL transition stuff is so fascinating and satisfying to me. :)

  • @KlingbergWingMkII
    @KlingbergWingMkII Год назад +2

    Looks like a very strong dihedral effect during the transition. It goes into a rapid dutch roll. It needs much tighter yaw control during transition so the unfolding wingtips don't get a chance to generate a lot of rolling moment.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      Agreed, need to tweak some of the flight controller gain staging to clean it up

  • @janheuermann2174
    @janheuermann2174 Год назад +5

    Nifty idea with the prop mounts, I might just shamelessly steal that for my own VTOL project. Can't wait to see the full transition! I'm also quite curious about your method of blending controllers on this. Good luck with the project:)

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад +3

      I basically copied my approach from my last video on tailsitter transitions to fade between flight modes. Unfortunately, I think that simplified approach needs some tweaking to work with a morphing wing

    • @janheuermann2174
      @janheuermann2174 Год назад

      @@NicholasRehm Interesting, that was also a great video by the way. Did you also adjust the motor mixing basf on the position of the wing folds? I cound imagine the pitch authority will get smaller as the motors come closer to each other as looked on from the side. Or is the craft tilted far enough to be out of the stall regime where this becomes noticible?

    • @DMel2011
      @DMel2011 11 месяцев назад

      The controller part of it is defintely a challenge as I found out from my folding wing tailsitter concept a while ago. It seemed like I had to switch to using quaaternions vs euler. Pterodyanmics concept solved that by not having to transition their IMU from vertical to horizontal.

  • @augustbarnes6732
    @augustbarnes6732 7 месяцев назад

    This thing looks straight outta Star Wars! Watching it transition for the first time blew my mind.

  • @TheOriginalBlue62
    @TheOriginalBlue62 Год назад +5

    Very cool setup. Have you attempted any flights fully unfolded just to see how it handles as a flying wing without needing to risk a crash mid transition?

  • @poretsmouthrunner
    @poretsmouthrunner Год назад +1

    Amazing attention to design and construction details and solutions. It's clear that you will take this concept to its highest level and determine its pros/cons. Looking forward to the next video!

  • @fabianluethi03
    @fabianluethi03 Год назад +3

    1:20 Just maker a circular wing so it is endless efficient xDD

  • @bilalmaassarani
    @bilalmaassarani Год назад +1

    Awesome! I'm working on tailsitter project myself for my PhD and I find inspiration in your videos

  • @AlanTheBeast100
    @AlanTheBeast100 11 месяцев назад

    This is a fascinating design. Congrats.
    For better stability: Since the ailerons are very far apart, consider adverse yaw reduction and only use upward aileron - no down - for roll control - this will also help with yaw in that direction as there is more drag there - and less on the "up" going wing as that aileron will remain neutral. Since you already have separate actuators for each aileron you're "there" other than the s/w.

  • @Jwmbike14
    @Jwmbike14 Год назад

    Your oscillation is divergent control loop to Dutch roll coupling. You'll either need to slow down the hand off between VTOL and aerodynamic control, or change the entire speed of your transition; likely either slower rotation, faster wing deployment, or a transition in more of a 45° climb using ascent rate as the speed handoff between quad control and aerodynamic control.
    Really cool design! Although sweep is a slightly less efficient planform, it could be made up by a higher performance airfoil transition negative Cm/ high lift at the root with washout/ and natural or positive Cm at the tips. A horten style center section could still allow tail sitter functionality and prop clearance with trailing edge. Side benefit is it would relieve the tip motors of a substantial amount of their workload maintaining directional stability, and instead can be mixed as a proverse yaw solution instead of active stability management. This can drastically increase the efficiency of your motors as well.

  • @xianghe5368
    @xianghe5368 Год назад +2

    Great work! In the transition state, the control surfaces change from rudders only to V-tail then elevons. I'm not sure if the tilting angle is enough to determine the current state or if an airspeed sensor is a must.😁

  • @MadNitr0
    @MadNitr0 11 месяцев назад +1

    If you don't unfold completely this would act like dihedral and naturally keep the roll axes more stable
    Also adding it might be worth wile to try a swept back wing configuration allowing more angular virginity for the winted motors and providing needed space on the center wing for passive vertical stabilization

  • @AerialWaviator
    @AerialWaviator Год назад +2

    Such an amazing and challenging project. The recoveries from semi-transition back into hover mode are just amazing (and a scary) to watch. That you're able to recovery so well is an attestant to your skills and all the effort that have gone into developing dRehmFlight.
    My brain is twisting as I try to imagine how pitch is controlled/maintained as wings unfold. Wonder if had an elevator, or elevons on the inner wing would help? Such flight surfaces operate similar to flight to those on a tail sitter, reducing the complexity of the outer controls surfaces having a wide transition angles. (swapping between rudders/elevons as pitching, while moment forces from the motors also changes)
    The closest transitioning VTOL that tries similar unfolding transitions is the PteroDynamics Transwing. Its wings rotate and pivot the using a heavy complex mechanism.
    The dReamFlight folding quad wing VTOL is much simpler mechanically, but a more complex software challenge.

  • @cloudpandarism2627
    @cloudpandarism2627 11 месяцев назад

    as somebody who builds his own aircrafts to fly myself - you earned that sub! jesus the transition was so nice to watch

  • @neilaslayer
    @neilaslayer 11 месяцев назад

    This looks like a production piece right off the line. When they first started playing with the concept of 3D printing they called the machine a Rapid Prototype machine. And you prove that name in fact. What a great presentation.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  11 месяцев назад

      I really appreciate the nice words

  • @borysfurdas3425
    @borysfurdas3425 11 месяцев назад

    Hi. Free advice. Make it as M form. But central corner of M should be in the center of square. It will compensate centric problem. The upper corners of M and bottom endings are 4 engines. Top corners of M are movable up in the air (not down like in Your model). The airflow will help to unfold wings.

  • @OriginalMorningStar
    @OriginalMorningStar Год назад

    Making the craft a chevron will stabilise the intermediate stability issues somewhat, but I dont know drones. I spent a portion of my childhood trying to make The Smallest Kite In The World, trying everything from a full delta to a box configuration. I also designed a folding kite-to-glider delta with a string release - the problem you are having is angle of attack, in an aircraft this is a stall condition and usually causes a crash, it is to be avoided.
    Good luck with this project, tho I feel you are going to need it. 😉

  • @AdamStephens
    @AdamStephens 8 месяцев назад +1

    Man, I can't wait to see it fully transition. Great video.

  • @Thefrogbread
    @Thefrogbread 11 месяцев назад +1

    Never seen this guy before, by the title and concept fully expected a brit

  • @Mateus_Longo
    @Mateus_Longo Год назад +1

    This was the best sponsor integration i've ever seen. And thanks for the video, very nice indeed

  • @codychenoweth4027
    @codychenoweth4027 11 месяцев назад +1

    Badass dude!! You’re doing all of the flight configs I wish I had time to play with.
    Eagerly awaiting the final product here. I truly think this is the most efficient VTOL concept out there. A future state could even reduce the servos to one with some push rod and gearing action for a slight weight reduction.
    I’d be curious also to see some side-by-side performance data with all 4x motors running vs just the 2x outboard. My gut would say you probably gain a little efficiency by running them all at slightly reduced throttle than the 2x config at slightly increased throttle. Not to mention the yaw control is nuts when only using the 2x outboard motors. A motor-out scenario would be catastrophic if not hilarious to watch at Rc scale lol. Chance of survival in a motor out scenario goes way up if 1/4 go out as opposed to 1/2, I imagine

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  11 месяцев назад +2

      I'll definitely test power with all 4 vs only outer 2 in forward flight

  • @TheCANhunter
    @TheCANhunter Год назад

    You're a wizard Nicholas. You make it look easy--a true testament to your skill.

  • @kentonian
    @kentonian Год назад

    Great work and it’s very satisfying to see it transition.
    I think the thing that always comes back to bite tail sitters in the end is guesting conditions. Ultimately for large scale vtolwings I think just 4 motors on poles that rotate is the answer,

  • @alexkaiser4569
    @alexkaiser4569 11 месяцев назад

    Very interesting tailsitter approach and great job so far!
    I have a few thoughts/questions based on some previous tailsitters I've messed with:
    1. Have you considered variable pitch propellers? Could allow you to feather the props without needing to fold them, plus it would solve the issue with the compromise between hover and forward flight performance
    2. Having all 4 motors in tractor config might be better since the blown wing reduces stall speed down to effectively 0 (which is probably a factor for you during transition)
    3. Unless your flight controller is setup to run quaternions you are going to start getting very weird behavior near 90 degrees in the pitch axis (technically true in roll, but less of a concern). It might be best to turn off auto level for your transition testing

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  11 месяцев назад

      1 - Definitely a good option to better performance, just not at this scale. 2 - maybe, but as long as the wing is even slightly folded, I get get full roll/pitch/yaw control through the motors--no need to rely on aero control or a stalled wing. 3 - Yes I have a quaternion attitude estimate, I convert that to euler angles for my pid controllers, but fade between reference attitude as I do the pitch over; check out my last video for more details on that

  • @IsaacKuo
    @IsaacKuo Год назад +1

    I wonder if a folding "H" shape could be better. I mean, the "U" shape places the central pod off center when hovering - not good if you wanted a payload. But an "H" shape would place the central pod in the center.
    So, in hover it's like a biplane, and you can transition to a biplane horizontally. But then, the wings can rotate flat against the center spar. Because these wings are centered around the pivot point, you wouldn't need very strong servos to do the rotation.

  • @claytonharting9899
    @claytonharting9899 11 месяцев назад +2

    man this is like a professional discovery channel show

  • @harrymills2770
    @harrymills2770 7 месяцев назад

    Marvelous glimpse of a great engineer at work. Much respect.

  • @jonesmatthew7511
    @jonesmatthew7511 Год назад

    I have been thinking about this for years, bravo! I look forward to see how this further develops!

  • @trexinvert
    @trexinvert 11 месяцев назад

    Some advice. Don't worry about "transitioning" smoothly from vertical to horizontal in a linear manner. In r/c helicopter when we "invert" there is absolutely no safe linear transition from regular to inverted. We just go into a well practiced "suicide" flip. It's all in the skills of your finger, plus mental orientation reversal control. Of course, we practice many times on the simulator until it becomes an "instant reflex" with no fear/no hesitation. So, if it's feasible with your aircraft, figure out a maneuver that will work. Then practice or "program it".
    Go up high, then go into a controlled spiral dive that has some lift, and simultaneously "unwrap" the wings. Then, fly out of it. This will require skill, ofcourse, but allows you to skip the "transitional" vertical to horizontal engineering project complexity.(just research the US army V-22 Osprey development, it's still unpredictable). Also, perhaps, ditch all the wing actuation, and simply spring load and cable it so you have a very light weight instant wing lock. Ofcourse, you are limiting the aircraft to Vertical take off, but horizontal landing. However, it's always best to divide development into feasible phases. Good luck.

  • @ryanoberfield756
    @ryanoberfield756 Год назад +1

    you hit the nail on the head with this one! you should see if you could patent this. Good job!

  • @StepDub
    @StepDub Год назад +1

    Very interesting design. The oscillations may be from having a lot of weight on the wingtips. I discovered this when making a small paper based kite, just for fun. The kite was a traditional diamond shape but bowed using tension from a thread from wing tip to wing tip and secured with rings made from copper wire which I had handy. I had oscillations like yours on its first test flight which went away completely when the copper rings were removed. The fibreglass looks great. Maybe you could compensate for the weight increase by reducing some of the base wing material?

  • @ProMayvn
    @ProMayvn 11 месяцев назад

    This is such a great video Nicholas! Really cool take on this problem. Your video format and information, like that about certain aerodynamic aspects of the design, add a lot. Keep it up!

  • @campilottv
    @campilottv Год назад +1

    I like this project 👍🏻

  • @optillian4182
    @optillian4182 11 месяцев назад +1

    You make such magnificent flying machines.

  • @PeterTheVald
    @PeterTheVald 11 месяцев назад

    What a delight. Thanks. Looking forward to part II.

  • @Mobimanie
    @Mobimanie Год назад

    You could increase aspect ratio by adding yet another foldable Wing on the end. To have a closed square. It is just the Question if it is worth the additional weight. But you could re-use the construction of the existing joint. 🎉 Awesome Design Work!

  • @sethburnsman
    @sethburnsman 7 месяцев назад

    Dude. I hope this gets enough views for it to become worth it for you to keep producing these videos. I keep waiting for an update. RUclips keeps showing me this video. PART 2 PLEASE

  • @spladam3845
    @spladam3845 11 месяцев назад

    Amazing project, your skills are impressive, hope to see this on the market in a couple of years.

  • @mitu8281
    @mitu8281 Год назад +1

    this is some brilliant work

  • @OrenTirosh
    @OrenTirosh Год назад +1

    Have you considered folding the wings down instead of up? This way you can use the strength of a fully extended joint to support the weight instead of relying entirely on the actuator’s holding force. You can have the spar extend a bit beyond the joint axis and lock onto the other spar for additional strength.

  • @jeremysaunders9916
    @jeremysaunders9916 Год назад

    Never fails to fails to amaze me the ingenuity and dedication of some RUclipsrs. This is brilliant and look forward to the transition flight, don't know nothing but would a vertical stabilizer help stabilize the transition?. 👏🏻

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      Appreciate it--more vertical stab would certainly help add some passive stability

  • @laizalott
    @laizalott 5 месяцев назад

    Fantastic project, cannot wait to see when the next update drops!

  • @GoldBenderr
    @GoldBenderr 11 месяцев назад

    Such a creative idea! Loved every part of the video including the smart fly testing and cant wait for part 2

  • @gabedarrett1301
    @gabedarrett1301 Год назад +1

    3:15 If you're looking for strength, consider using PETG instead of PLA. Great video, as always!

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      I've got a set of backup parts printed in CF-PETG!

  • @sbwew
    @sbwew Год назад

    Great work and very inspiring. On my shop bench is my first attempt to incorporate your controller into a tailsitter. Looking forward to your next posts!

  • @evanw7867
    @evanw7867 Год назад +1

    This may be the only RUclips video where I've actually "smashed the like button"! And I was only one minute in!

  • @i_Hally
    @i_Hally Год назад +1

    This is phenomenal! Very inspiring, id love to build this! Tho id probably tweak the design to look even more like the lambda t-4a shuttle. Great editing. Keen for part two!

    • @borysfurdas3425
      @borysfurdas3425 11 месяцев назад

      ruclips.net/video/I3D559DNa04/видео.html

  • @killeroblivin
    @killeroblivin 7 месяцев назад +1

    This is so sick

  • @thewayfaringanarchists8157
    @thewayfaringanarchists8157 Год назад +1

    This is sick. I can’t wait for the next update

  • @WASHEDUPLOSER
    @WASHEDUPLOSER Год назад

    I made something very similar in KerbalSpaceProgram and called it the Albatross. Great work man keep it up!

  • @davidsteinhour5562
    @davidsteinhour5562 Год назад

    Shout out to @xjet! I remember that video! Thanks for getting me into all this, Bruce! Your science-heavy reviews walked so Nicholas, Thinkflight, RC Testflight, etc. could run.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад

      Fun fact: Bruce shouted me out on his channel wayyyy back when I was starting out on youtube, helped my channel out a ton. Nice guy :)

  • @evrebel4941
    @evrebel4941 11 месяцев назад

    Holy moly that is a cool idea! As an electrical engineer, it would be interesting to develop some mathematical model for this hybrid drone and try to figure out possible parameter values to stabilize it in the various states of its operation. This might give better initial values to start with and possibly avoid some crushes :)

  • @javierpatag3609
    @javierpatag3609 11 месяцев назад

    Wonder of all these experiments and innovations in drone design will benefit future manned aircraft design. Please keep up the good work.

  • @dustcommander100
    @dustcommander100 11 месяцев назад +1

    Super impressive engineering!!!!!!!! That thing sounds SCARY!

  • @eckern0
    @eckern0 Год назад +2

    I think it might increase forward flight stability if the wingtips were swept back. Maybe the hinges can be at an angle? In the straight configuration it has very low pitch moment and the elevons have little moment arm. Kavin's wings all had some sweep; gliders with wings that shape need a tail.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  Год назад +1

      Static instability is a feature, not a bug ;)

    • @eckern0
      @eckern0 11 месяцев назад

      @@NicholasRehm Well that's a very ambitious control task then! I'm looking forward to seeing how this performs relative to Tom Stanton's latest tiltrotor. Perhaps you can devise some kind of VTOL challenge? =)

  • @JinKee
    @JinKee Год назад +1

    This is finally a good use of the folding wing design we see in star wars ships. Lock S foils to attack position!

  • @jaiveersingh5538
    @jaiveersingh5538 Год назад +1

    We absolutely need to see a Lambda-class Imperial Shuttle from Star Wars using this folding wing idea 😂

  • @TommyLikeTom
    @TommyLikeTom 9 месяцев назад

    I can see this having practical applications for real aircraft travel. For one thing it could be a great safety measure

  • @jaspervrolijk6206
    @jaspervrolijk6206 11 месяцев назад

    If you really want to focus on efficiency in flight I recommend reducing the chord towards the wingtips to get a more elliptical lift distribution. For a straight wing, usually a taper ratio of 0.4 gets you pretty close to elliptical. This also has the effect of increasing the aspect ratio even further. This might however not be structurally viable, but that depends on how much of the loads are carried by the carbon spar vs the actual airfoil.

    • @NicholasRehm
      @NicholasRehm  11 месяцев назад

      I considered taper but ran into issues of thickness at the tips that made cramming a spar in there difficult

  • @GrimGX
    @GrimGX 11 месяцев назад +1

    Really excited for part 2, great video!

  • @yelrathur1607
    @yelrathur1607 Год назад +1

    Isn't this a bit like a real life imperial shuttle from star wars lol, awesome work btw.

  • @jimbotron8552
    @jimbotron8552 11 месяцев назад +1

    gorgeous build