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Yo, imagine how Snow must’ve pissed himself in his final year: -hearing the Hanging Tree song again at the dam -defiant girl from 12 -even the name “Katniss” All reminders of Lucy
Fun (or not so fun) fact: The next winner of the hunger games (11th) is Mags, the old lady that volunteer in Annie's place on the second movie. She was also the first ever to make the champion's Tour! We might see this on a possible sequel.
@@juliabackbergkarnekull4833 really?! That’s so cool, there was a volcano and everything in the arena like the flowers, the lake and everything edible was really beautiful but poisinous and haymitch’s victory kill is just so badass
Snow actually isn't decent. He's always been bad. The one thing the movie couldn't completely relay from the book is his internal monologue. Snow is actually Sadistic, envious, ambitious, manipulative, an elitist and an opportunist who appears charming and nice. He's also not completely in love with Lucy, He just thinks he is. He loves her in the only way he knows how, by being possessive
@@cklambo he’s not just evil, but he’s not decent or a good person either. People think all villains have to have this tragic backstory and be a good person who turns evil, that isn’t always more interesting people just think it is because they do that with everyone now, however Snow was not a great person who wanted power and got worse as it goes on. What’s interesting and frustrating with him is that he had plenty of opportunities to do the right thing in the story and you want to to route for him but he always ends up doing the wrong thing while justifying why he is in the right
Yes. Thank you. I meant to leave a comment about that, but didn't. He actually asked her to do it. That was what all the whispering between the two was.
What's so chilling about Snow as a villain is that through this prequel we realize that he very much had the capacity for love but ultimately he still chose to cross that line into evil
Not really in the books his inner monologue makes it very clear that he was already self serving and his love for Lucy Grey was more a possessive obsession. That being said the movie can’t really do an inner monologue and so I like how the audience basically sees the act that Snow puts on for everyone else.
@@masonguthrie1257 He's self-serving and obsessive but he's not "evil" in the way we saw him as President Snow. He had the capacity to care and he could have easily chosen to be a good person that Lucy/Sejanus/Tigris believed he could be. In the movies that's more highlighted. Yes they couldn't really adapt his inner monologue word for word but they also don't make it obvious that most of the things he does was an act (there are various ways of doing that in movie format). There are moments of clear genuineness that they put in the movie that's intended to make the audience see there's goodness in him and isn't entirely heartless
@@cheekyramenexactly. His love of power destroyed the very little ounce of Hamburg he had within himself. Hence the line, “It’s the things we love most that destroy us.”
You misunderstood the scene were Lamina killed Marcus. It was actually a mercy kill, she put him out of his misery. There was no way he was gonna survive anyway. Lamina, instead of becoming a ruthless killer, showed empathy and kindness to Marcus. That, in itself, was against what the Hunger Games are.
47:21 She wrote the song about the first hanging we saw, right when Snow got to 12. Arlo Chance yelled out for his girlfriend to run, and the jabberjays repeated his last words. “The dead man called out for his love to flee.”
Katniss was not a fighter. Katniss was a hunter. That’s different. People keep repeating the same line as you did, thinking they did a thing. You didn’t. Stop it.
That’s why when Snow said “It’s the things we love most that destroy us” to Katniss he knew what it feels and how it can become an ammunition against someone because he himself experienced that vulnerability when he met Lucy Gray.
This movie kinda suffers from not conveying Snow's thoughts in the books to the screen properly. You only see the way he presents himself outwardly, without the internal thought process showing how much of a dick he is from the very beginning. Quite literally at the start with Tigris, for example, instead of just saying "best cousin ever!" you can read him thinking "wonder if she had to sell her body to get me this. nah, she's not good-looking enough for that is she", really showing that he really wasn't that genuine or kind at any point, which gets lost in the movie because none of those thoughts are shown...
@cklambo he isn’t, though? A big part of both the book and the movie is that he does, at one point and in a curious way, care genuinely for a girl he's been taught to hate. He just does that while ALSO being a huge dick, internally mostly, about the people he cares about. He loves tigris, but looks down on her. He seems to care about Sejanus sometimes, but mainly as a tool. He cares for and even loves Lucy, but expects praise for it from her bc he's lowering himself for her. It doesn’t exactly make him more interesting to pretend he wasn't arrogant, selfish, and cruel, even as a teenager; people can be not totally evil while being assholes.
@@cklambohe wasn’t “just evil” in the books, either. He was a complete narcissist, but he had the ability to care- although it was just a little. He also had Tigress as his voice of reason.
This is also based on a prequel book that the author wrote years after the original trilogy books. In the prequel book, it's also more clear cut how Snow transitioned into becoming who he is because you can read his actual thoughts and how fucked up they are especially in the last part. For example, in the book it's not heavily implied that Lucy Gray set up the snake trap in the forest as it was in the movies. Through Snow's inner monologue you can tell that he was being extremely paranoid about Lucy Gray betraying him that he ended up hunting and shooting her in the forest. That's because in the books you see how easily Snow put together that Lucy is the last living witness to his crime and that made him spiral into paranoia. There's also a scene where the nurse who treated his snake bite told him it wasn't poisonous like he assumed it was.
Coriolanus is actually already evil from the start. Coriolanus' all-friendly interactions with people are just a shallow level of him. In the books, we get to delve into his inner, narcissistic thoughts, which makes him more interesting to read. But I get the change since I can see it must be pretty hard to adapt ALL his inner monologues into his personality
it's a similar if not identical issue to the problem of Katniss' inner monologues and thoughts not being well represented. Katniss' inner thoughts in the books give so much more depth and history to the story, and Snow's thoughts do the same here. (such as the fact that snow never really liked Sejanus, but was happy to use their "friendship" to his advantage if he could)
@@PeverellTheThirdwounded yes, but many people were damaged from the war. Snow was incredibly egotistical and manipulative from the start. His internal monologue was in direct contrast to his actions. His trauma from the war is real, but his craving for power and control were always there. When he talked about Lucy Gray in his head, he’d think of her more like a rare object he owned and should be for his eyes only. He hated when she strayed away from being attached to him.
@@cklambo it’s not that he’s “just evil” - he’s incredibly smart and manipulative. It’s how he’s able to fool everyone into thinking his actions come from a good place, but when you’re reading, we as the reader can see that it’s all a big chess game to Snow.
55:30 one thing you have to understand is that in the box of the original trilogy when were in district 12 there are mentions of how the 10th hunger games were lost and there’s no record of Lucy winning and her existence is wiped out. All that’s left of Lucy Gray. It’s a song called the ballad of Lucy Gray. It’s only sung in district 12. The the books give enough information to completely tie in the ballad of songbirds and snakes that when you watch the movie, you will know why it’s worthwhile..
Did they actually mention Lucy Gray's name in the original trilogy? All I remember is Katniss reflecting on how District 12 has had only 2 victors and only 1 is still alive, Haymitch
@@sydneypeck2488 it wasn’t explicitly stated, but you could put two into together in the books. The fact that information is only known about Haymitch and his games and the fact that the 10th hunger games were erased from existence, and that no one really knows what went on during those games, and the information that is in the song, the ballad of Lucy Gray.
I think the movie portrayed him perfectly, we are just not living inside his thoughts like in the book. In the book he’s putting on a show externally but internally he is thinking the most vile things about people. The movie portrayed him exactly how he did in the book. Charismatic, manipulative and self serving. All his actions in the movie were self serving disguised as “helping” or being “kind hearted.” His suggestions for the games were only a way to earn the prize money, the same thing for helping a Lucy Gray win. He helped a Lucy win to earn the money. Even though he developed feelings for Lucy his goal from the start was to win for status and reputation.
@@Icycold21 The thing is that movies are a different medium of storytelling compared to the book they are based on and as such they have to adapt the material so that the story and characterization of the characters stay largely the same. I think the movie's script failed at that...
@@alexpapas99 That is very true. It’s hard though because there are people who are book purists and will hate everything they change even at the expense of the characters/story in the film. For example, In the movie Snows walks out while Lucy is singing “Pure as the Driven Snow.” That was done in the film to show that Snow is more concerned about Sejanus ruining everything more than Lucy’s song about her confessing her love. This got so much hate from book purists because in the book he doesn’t walk out during that scene but the film really needed to show his decent into evil so it makes sense in the film why he would walk out. I also don’t think the director wanted to portray Snow as evil from the get go because that’s not really what Suzanne wanted. Suzanne said in an interview that she wanted Snow to struggle with the good and evil. I do think that with the movie trying to stick so close to the book that it didn’t have the creative freedoms or risk to make the “evil” Snow in the book. It’s very similar to Peeta in the movies. Peeta is so much more dimensional in the book and in the film his character is really flat (even though I think Josh did a great job in the role) the script doesn’t do his character justice at all.
Did Lucy Grey live or did she die? We will never know. She is a mystery and will haunt Snow even tho he tries to forget her. Katniss and the Mockingjay will come and light the final fire to end his reign and the districts will be united under the song she wrote and in the end Lucy Grey overcame Snow ❤
37:12 'Who will watch the Games if there is no victor' as Coriolanus' very own statement, while, 60 years later, this idea would be the seed of the revolution when it was this principle on which the gamemakers made the decision let both Katniss and Peeta survive...
So in the film they didn’t point this out but at the Reaping Lucy’s name was not on the slip that was drawn. The girl that she put the snake on, her father was the one reading the names, and as revenge they decided to call her name.
the revenge was for Lucy Gray having been with Billy Taupe, not for the snake - Lucy Gray wouldn't even have been in a position to slip a snake down Mayfair's dress (or really had any reason to want to in front of so many and the entire country) if her name hadn't already been called.
They did mention that in the movie though. Lucy tells Snow at the zoo before the night of the games in the movie that the mayors daughter had her name called because she was jealous of her being close to Billy Taupe
@@thewitchiebunnyim aware of that. Quick message to you and the 4 morons who liked your comment, he called her name BEFORE she put the snake on her. Clearly it was not revenge for an incident that hadn’t even happened yet. I just didn’t state what the revenge was for. Thank you SO MUCH for “correcting” a statement that didn’t need correction.
@@Icycold21I thought she was talking about how she had DATED Billy-Taupe and the song was a message to him, because he had left her for the Mayor’s daughter. If she mentioned it, it was extremely quick and low-toned. I think she did AMAZING in this role, but at times she was speed-talking, and her accent was INCREDIBLY insane. It is different in every scene. 😂
I always find the scene in the woods when the snake bites Snow a bit telling. Who assumes the worst of people and their intentions? We don't know that Lucy PUT a snake under the scarf (if she had meant to kill him, wouldn't she have placed a venomous snake?) I find it more likely that she dropped the mother's shawl either to leave it behind for Snow, and/or because it was brightly colored and she didn't want it to be easily spotted as she slipped away to escape him. But a snake would be naturally attracted to a warm, soft place to hide between the folds, and could have simply slithered in by itself while Lucy was off escaping. Yet so many people automatically assume she had bad intentions to do harm to a man she had loved, just as Snow himself assumed.
What about the snake she was carrying in the beginning? I assumed it was not poisonous because we didn't see the woman die, just freak out after she put it down her dress .
@@derps0n839 yeah, we SAW her do that intentionally to a bully who had wronged her multiple times and who reveled in seeing her selected to most likely die in the Hunger Games. That doesn't mean she did it intentionally to a man she had loved when all we see is a shawl on the ground in the woods and a snake underneath it. She was obviously trying to get away from him, but what's the point of having a harmless snake bite him in the process?
@@angelalurtz3638 I think she deliberately hid the non-venomous snake there to distract him to give her more time to get away if he came chasing after her. Lucy isn't fond of killing, but she began to fear for her life after discovering that the man she loved is actually a coldhearted killer and liar. So she still wouldn't have wanted to kill him, but distract and scare him by making him think that he had been bitten by a venomous snake.
Seneca Crane, not “Secana”. You missed Lucy Gray’s bow at the reaping, which was an homage to Katniss’s bow after she shot the arrow at the game makers in THG.
The thing with narcissists is that they can come across as *very* charming and likeable on the outside. I think this is hard to capture on film without making the character constantly give that "knowing evil eye" thing with every decision the character makes. So in my opinion, they made the right choice to have the audience initially charmed by Snow, and if you're paying attention instead of giving the movie a casual, distracted watch, you will catch all the little nuances that hint at his narcissism.
The saying "I am not made out of sugar", the rest of it goes I am not going to melt. Meaning it doesn't bother her getting wet in the rain. The snake under the scarf was just a coincidence, it more than likely crawled under there when she discarded it.
Gaul gave her students an assignment "design a punishment for our enemies so severe that they will never forget how badly they wronged you." Highbottom/Tyrion: *has a stupid, drunk idea*. That's it, that's the origin movie.
I haven’t finished the reaction, but even though the movie did a great job adapting the book, what they didn’t convey really well was that Snow doesn’t change, his real self finally comes to the surface. He’s never been good or humane, or truly cared about the districts. Lucy realizes that she is now a liability to Snow and she knows that he lied to her, that’s why she makes a run for it. It’s theorized that Maude Ivory, Lucy’s cousin, is Katniss’s grandmother. Also, you can see why Snow hates 12 so much and hates Katniss so much, bc of his history with LG & D12.
Wellon first glance, but actually not... its a missconception that Snow was the one who cut her off. She left on her own terms. There is a theory about what happend. The book BOSBAS is waaaayyy darker then the movie. In the book there is scene where Corio says Lucy would choose a disgrace if she could. To wich Tigirs says "Dont judge disgraces, during the dark days... everyone did stuff they are not proud of" Corio replys "Well... YOU didnt!" Tigirs looks at him and says "You were to young to realise how ""bad"" it really was. ... What im trying to say, Dont judge someone who had to choose between death and disgrace" In case anyone needs help interpreting it, it implies realy heavy that Tigirs had to "sell" herself around age 10, to keep her family fed. Now the theory goes, while Tigris disagrees with Snows politics, she followed her dream to become a Stylist in the games and remaind one of the best (she actually was the first) for around 50 years. There is a line in Mockingjay that said "She quit about 10 years ago." That would be shortly after Finnick won his games. There is also that one line from Haymitch, thats chilling every time, It says, meaning not word for word "Finnick O´Dare won his games age 14, the youngest ever. Because he was so young, the Capitol couldnt touch him, the first few years, but at 16 Snow sold his qualitys to the Capitol" When Tigirs learned about that, despite Corio knowing what she "had to do for her family" selling victors for ...well... she went, because that was her final braking point.
This is likely already commented, but just in case…. There is a strong fan theory that Lucy’s cousin, Maude Ivory (the blonde girl who sang), is Katniss’ paternal grandmother. There are several things pointing that way, including the location of the covey house being in the same place as Katniss’ family home in the seam. Also, Maude Ivory sang with Lucy, and was known to be able to remember a song after hearing it only once - a trait Katniss is said to also have in the books. Lucy wrote the Hanging Tree song about the hanging Snow witnessed right after arriving in 12. But she only sang it publicly once before it was banned. Yet Katniss learned it from her father. Also, the lake house - that is where Katniss learned to swim (which was rare in 12, and helped her in the 2nd games) with her father. Also, the plant Katniss is named after is typically called swamp potato in their district, but her father always called it Katniss like the covey did. There are other clues I can’t think of atm, but the theory is pretty plausible.
I don’t like how they changed Clemensia’s character. The class actually elected Coryo, Clemensia, and Arachne to write up their proposal, but Arachne died right before they were supposed to meet and write it. Clemensia and Coryo agreed to give Clemensia some credit when meeting Gaul. She already had her hand in the tank when Gaul told her about the scent and Clemensia got bit right as she tried to take her hand out. Due to the poison, she became different and a little more mean-spirited and even had her skin mutated to scales due to the poison. I think the directors were trying to make up for this and made her mean-spirited since the start since they couldn’t fit the whole story in less than 3 hours.
I think the effects of the snake bite really added some symbolism to the snakes theme of the franchise and how being hit by one can change a person’s nature.
Snow was very calculated, he was not kind and pure, he thought his friend was crazy for having sympathy for the districts, and he was just trying to get on top. I haven't read the books, but I heard his inner monologue is just dark and sadistic haha, I gotta read them
A book/movie about Haymitch is on the way, "Sunrise on the Reaping" in 2025/2026. He went to the 50th Hunger Games which was the 2nd Quarter Quell. They had double the Tributes for that year, and Haymitch won in a sneaky, yet smart, way.
They also hadn’t fed them at all so her eating the flowers petal makes sense since it’s considered somewhat edible lol better than nightlock berries, amirite?
I've never read the books, but in the movie, Snow does not appear "evil" until he feels the power after killing that boy in the arena. He obviously has dark sides to him (from his father it sounds like), but they are supressed as long as he has to play other's games. When he feels powerful after that first kill, and he is starting to see the whole world as an arena, he has no scruples with killing anymore. I think he wants to pursue happiness and to "escape" the arena with Lucy Gray. And I think he wants to give the life up north an actual chance. When that goes south, he just gives in entirely to his dark sides and his philosophy. There are people like this, and if they are not stopped, bodies pile up.
The movie showing every time that Snow makes the decision to do the wrong thing or be selfish Them: He didn’t become evil til she left in the woods Are we watching the same movie 😂
Both the Hunger Games series, and The Ballad...is written from 1 (and ONLY 1) perspective - Katniss's & Coriolanus's. You guys are right, this one didn't hit as hard as Katniss's story, but I think it's because we can trust Katniss's POV as a good person, even though she's conflicted. I imagine it was hard for the writers to show Snow's dark side - from the beginning - without revealing that very dark side too soon. "...underpinned with his self interest." Yes, Spartan. Tigris saw him struggling, and tried...she really did. This is where I was very interested to see how they would pull-it-off. I think they did a great job, considering. Tom Blyth did it fantastically, imo. The books reveal the true thoughts & nature of the POV characters, so Snow being who he was and then who he becomes, was hard to capture on film. Still, again, I thought they (the writers) did well. Great reaction, guys. I enjoyed watching one of my favorites series with you both. *Edited:* I'd also like to mention that the reason there is so much song(singing) in this movie is a call back to Katniss. In the original book series, it's mentioned that her father used to sing to her when she was little, and one of the song's was "the hanging tree" (yes, the hanging tree was there even before Snow got there), and Katniss' mother put a stop to it. But she remembered the song because she loved her father. Songbird is a callback to the talent her father had. It it said he had a beautiful voice. I believe that one of the children that was with Lucy Gray & Coriolanus in the woods, is Katniss' ancestor (grandfather/grandmother). My guess it was the boy, who apparently loves katniss. That's just my theory, tho.
Let's talk about parents favoring one child above the other: Imagine you have two daughters. And you name one after a beautiful flower and the other one after a potato :P
But the swamp potato plant we're talking about keeps people from starving to death in desperate, poor District 12 and elsewhere too probably. Katniss' father used to tell her that "as long as you manage to find yourself, you will never starve". Katniss is a hunter, provider and protecter, and possesses many of the traits Lucy Gray uses to describe the "swamp potato" plant in this movie. Primroses possess some medical abilities on top of looking beautiful. I think these two plants reflect Katniss and Prim Everdeen remarkably well. There are many indications in the original three books that starving to death is the most common way to die in many districts including 12. And everyone will need medical care at some point. Prim is ((was) )': ) a carer, medic and overall sweet. Point is, looks of the plant comes secondary to their abilities and whether they can be useful for human life or not. Looks and fashion, that is under the Capitol's line of worries.
As a book reader, there are a few theories this book creates. Some think Lucy Gray is Katniss’ paternal grandmother since she called the roots katniss and she wrote the hanging tree song. I personally think the grandmother was Lucy Gray’s younger cousin because I personally think Lucy Gray died in that forest. Also Snow was never a loving person, shown by his hypocrisy with Sejanus. He often talked about Lucy Gray in a very possessive and jealous way, even jealous of her ability to capture a crowds attention and move people. His humanity was only for his personal power gain Edit: Also the original trilogy was always more emotionally moving for me too because Katniss was a more emotionally developed person. This movie and book are in Snows perspective and he does not care about anyone.
Many people think Maude Ivory (Lucy Grey’s cousin)was Katniss’s paternal grandmother because she can copy melodies she hears only once, a trait that Katniss mentions her father had!
Btw the next year is the 11th games and that is Mags (the old lady from catching fire) games and those aquatic mutts that gaul was feeding were used in her games.
The way you guys talk about this film it seems like you would really like the actual book, as it gets into more of how snow becomes who he becomes, as you spend a lot of time in his head
Yeah mate! Was waiting for this to drop soon... EDIT: I haven't read the prequel but if you think of this time period ie Snow as a young man, as post WWII, that would explain why the games, arena and clothing etc were not as glamorous as the games and Capital during Katniss' time. Post war deprivation and rationing would make for a more 'primitive' games...
I personally love how the prequel film was designed to look more primitive. It gives off a more chilling and impactful experience watching it blind for the first time. I’m still not finished reading the book, but seeing Coriolanus’s narcissistic thoughts in the books made it seem even creepier than I originally thought. You either die the hero, or live long enough to become the villain. To put it simply.
Finally someone reacts to Tigris! Personally, I think if a prequel it's made after the saga, you don't have to watch it first. That's why Suzanne Collins wrote it after!!
i hate the comments that say snow was *never* kind-hearted, because yes he was!!! He just sadly only had Tigris as his only guiding light growing up and all these other negative outside influences and the need to save face obviously corrupted him. He clearly has emotions such as love and regret especially for Lucy Gray and Sejanus in part 3 only to flip the script completely as let his intrusive thoughts and overwhelming need for self-preservation take control. obviously in the book his love for Lucy Gray is toxic because he only needed to learn love doesn't mean power and control and seeing Lucy Gray as his trophy wife. If he could've only actually built a life with her whether it wasn't shooting the mayors daughter- or actually running away with Lucy Gray he would've most likely actually learned to truly love another person outside of his cousin. she would've taught him so much and let him grow- that's why he continues on for the next 64 years until Katniss!! Which then ultimately is his true demise because of everything that could haunt him of his past loves (Lucy Gray, Sejanus, and even Tigris at that point) manifested into Katniss, Peeta, and the rebellion.
The thing about this movie is that there is just not enough time to have everything included. There is so much missing like inner dialogue that are missing. What this movie (and book) did make me want was another book focusing on Tigris
This was actually my favorite movie out of the franchise, I loved it- and I wished it was longer. I love getting to see the creations and ideas added to the games, and how everything started. I also love Lucy because she's not entitled to a district, which helps her get away, and keeps her safe. Idk I loved it so much, and they are making a new hunger games about Haymitch's games, the 50th year, and its one of the craziest arenas, so I'm really excited to see all the ties and connections.
Laminas death was so sad, just a 15 year old girl whos district partner ditched her for a stronger group, the way she looks at Treech and the way he cant even look at her reminds you these are just children
Suzanne Collins books are based on certain themes and this one is nature vs nurture; are you bad/evil from the get go or does your circumstance lead to the place you find yourself at. The book is great and I would highly recommend Pudgy to read as I think her inner Ravenclaw would love getting inside Snow's head. There was a lot left out in the movie and I'm so glad I read it first. It really should have been two movies. In my opinion while in the book Snow is often led by selfish motivations, most of his actions are to ultimately serve himself, there are signs of soneone who could be good. He had a very tragic start to life and didn't really have any great role models to show him right from wrong. He also grew up with a lot of resentment and with a grandmother who reminded him of who he was and what it meant to be a Snow even though they have barely anything left at the start of the book. Snow is very clever and deceptive quite naturally, he does have a natural preservation instinct, but again was this learnt by what he went through as a child? It really is facinating to me and i think Suzanne Collins wrote him so well in this prequel. When i first heard about it i wasnt that fussed, but im so glad i read it now, particularly as in the book there are so many more links and references to The Hunger Games we know as it starts to come alive during the events of ABoSaS with Snow coming up with a lot of the elements we know from the future Hunger Games; for example, showing the fallen tributes in the sky so they can keep track. A character who they left out of the movie mentions something regarding the tributes not knowing how many are left and Snow grabs onto the idea. The explosion creating a more immersive arena. In the books theres no cameras in the new tunnels so for long periods they have no idea what is going on, this leads to them adding cameras. Etc etc. So much more.
The way the weapons look here are more like the are how I envisioned them to look when I read the first Hunger Games book, way before the movies. Crude and makeshift, not chrome and tactical. I love how it's a blend of irony, humor, and poetic justice that it was a girl from District 12 who molded Snow into what he became, and it was another girl from District 12 who would be his undoing. I would like to see another book about the 25th Hunger Game, but done in a way where we have more than one person to root for. Make a lot them more tributes fleshed instead of just a few important characters while the rest are just one-dimensional paper people. I also wanna see how they hashed out the Quarter Quell system and see them writing down a bunch of ideas, including the one they replaced with Katniss's Quell.
Snow has always had goals of power that he’s wanted to achieve since he was a child, and he’ll do or say ANYTHING that we’ll get him there. He cared for Lucy Gray but never really loved her, he saw her more as being his possession (based off of his inner dialogue in the book). He only agreed to run away with Lucy Gray because he didn’t know where the guns (the only evidence against him) were, but when he find them, everything changes. The only remaining loose end standing in his way of getting back to the capital was Lucy Gray. One thing I wish they kept in the movie from the book was Snow’s hatred for Mockingjays. He saw them as being abominations because they were created from the mating of Jabberjays and Mockingbirds, and he even tried to convince the “peacekeepers” to hunt and kill all of them but was unsuccessful in doing so. With that in mind, imagine what he felt when Katniss literally becomes the Mockingjay in the future! Adding even more meaning the symbol!
How? In the first 10 minutes he is lying to his classmates about being rich. And tells Lucy Gray he is helping her win to earn the prize money (his main goal from the very beginning) and even suggested to Dr. Gaul to implement betting in the games. Betting on humans to kill other humans.…How does that make him a good person?
That scene where the girl kills the district 2 boy was a mercy killing not just out of savagery but also the ppl watching weren’t aware so they also viewed her as harsh when that wasn’t at all what she did
What a genius character. The actor KILLED it so well. I would gladly watch Snows continuous rise. For me- the last part was actually WAY more intriguing then the games and mentor part
Most read the book and see him as bad. I see the plain old way that humans are. It’s a constant battle between choices. His internal thoughts always battle between selfishly doing what’s best for him and the family, vs helping someone else also in need. He ended up choosing in a way that led him to lose his mind (although as did Lucy for betraying, which sent him over the edge)
Yea the Lucy he was shooting at was all in his head which explains the big footprints from him circling around the woods and not knowing what happens to her or where she’s gone drives him mad. And she left a long time ago due to the mockingjays echoing her song to him and making him go more mad since he already hates mockingjays (hint, hint) and apparently Lucy gray is an ancestor of katniss since that hanging tree song is banned from being sung again by capitol, so the only explanation would be that Lucy gray is katniss’ grandmother or great grandmother thanks to katniss’ father passing the song down to her and their spot also being that lake that Lucy gray swam in, and the reason katniss gets her name. And realistically Lucy gray and coryo wouldn’t have lasted as a couple bc they’re too different and he would’ve acted as if he owned her, so it’s good she got away while she could bc he didn’t hesitate to shoot her when things went awry
For me seeing this in theaters it was a great movie in my opinion. After the last movie being released in 2015 and coming back to see this one I was personally impressed. I don't think they did a bad job with having a prequal movie that follows an already huge success of a franchise. I ranked this movie a 9/10. I also think the cast was pretty good in portraying these characters!
This movie has a lot of strengths, I still found it difficult to really attach myself to, because even though it is about the origin of the games, we spend a lot of time with Lucy Gray and frankly, I don’t think we ever get much deeper than the surface. Snow was a bit more developed of course but it was more about his turn in character, like his pivotal moment, and when he became a villain, but we don’t have a good idea about who he was before that… He seemed like a very ambitious young person, but his father was so crucial to his story, and we only see glimpses of him. Don’t ever understand if they were close, if it was abusive, his mother is seen in a single photograph, but you would think she would’ve played a big role in his personality… I don’t know just felt difficult to get emotionally invested in her for me.
after i watched the movie I was thinking about how I want you both to react to it, but you’ve never even seen the hunger games at the time so i’m glad yall’s reaction is finally here 😭
In the book sejanus had money from his father hidden behind his diploma so coryo basically robs him and continues to do so by taking advantage of his parents smh
Pudgey is so fed up with hunger games that she has an allergy for them. 7:03 Can't blame you... after what happened with Finnick, still not recovering. Sorry for reminding me he is my favourite, with Katniss and Lucy Gray
Just so you know, they're coming out with another Hunger Games movie, and it's going to focus on Haymitch and his time in the Hunger Games! His was the second quarter quell, so it was the 50th anniversary and instead of 24 kids, it was 48 total (2 boys and 2 girls from each district)
Snow has never been a good person, he's certainly tried to help her in the arena but he's mainly trying to help himself! It was always him and his needs above all others, ready to do anything to achieve his ends! In the book, you can see that he sees Lucy Gray as his property, part of him surely loved her but above all he loved possessing her and knowing that she belonged to him! Snow was surrounded by love whether it was familial love through Tigris, friendly love through Sejanus and romantic love with Lucy Gray and yet he made the decision that power was more important to him than them and everything else! He could have had a life filled with love and happiness but that was never what he wanted, he wanted power! Lucy Gray realised at the end that she couldn't trust him, he lied to her and betrayed his own friend leading to his death, she quickly realised that he would be capable of doing the same thing to her, she had every right to run away, it wasn't her fault he became like that and she didn't turn against him, she was scared and he was already a bad person! He had every possible chance of becoming a good person, but he decided not to take any of them!
For me it's 1) Catching Fire, 2) Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, 3) Hunger Games, 4) Mockingjay Part 1, 5) Mockingjay Part 2. I just genuinely don't think Mockingjay had enough story to cover two movies.
Viola Davis, who plays the head game maker, is a PHENOMENAL actress! I first discovered her in the crazy crime drama "How to Get Away with Murdered don't hear the surname Grey or any mention of her in the other movies because Snow basically used his power as president to basically erase all history of her so she o lying exists in the tales people tell.
@@angie-tq4ew me too! One of my favorites! I LOVE how she shames Julliard acting classes all the time, especially as successful as she is. It's hilarious. SHE even says she doesn't know why they keep inviting her to speak.
Most people (about 70% of the book readers) say that she was way to over the top for Dr. Gaul... However... Viola Davis red the script and went all in. She was like "Oh, a comicbook evil person? Hold my beer" I love the fact, that she is doing exactly that, going completly off the rails.
@@thomasnieswandt8805 AMEN! That, in a nutshell IS Viola Davis as an actor. I LOVE THAT! "Hold my beer," lol. That's great. Did you see her most recent Hot Ones appearance a few months back? She slayed it!
@@thomasnieswandt8805 Yes. These books are one of my favorite series, and have read it many times (even this last one), and Gaul was a little more subdued in the book - yes, but I love the way Viola played her. It was exactly the way I saw her in my head, if imagining her outside of Coriolanus' POV.
I love how EVERY single hunger games book AND movie is a banger. Sure, they're not perfect. But damn, you gotta give credit here, they're really amazing.
there are a few theories on this movie... 1st why tigress was so close to her cousin as kids but wants him dead in the original movies the theory is since she implied to FUCK to keep him fed and he then put the attractive victors like finnick through that 2nd some think Lucy survived to be either Coin (unlikely cause she didn't love color, was too young & just as shitty as him) or Katniss's paternal grandma (but it's more likely she just lived out her days between districts rather than return to the covey in 12) & Maude Ivory became the grandma
I wish wish wish you'd read the book in your own time. You'll see how his mind works and how much a red flag he is. You might be swayed at first because of his mental gymnastics but reread it and you'll seeee. 🚩🚩🚩
Ah great observarions particularly about Snow catching fire 😮 Tyrion always exiling people 😆 You might b interested in the video "How NOT to Adapt a Book (same Director btw)" from The Writer's Block analysis on why this movie didnt quite have the same impact. Ill never be able to unsee the 👃 after that 😂
As other people have said, the movie is missing a lot of his bad traits. When you read the book you are reading his thoughts and POV which you don’t get in movie format.
I'm beginning to believe yall don't pay attention much 47:18 " he knows he's responsible for it I don't get why " yall remember the fact that snow exposed him but not him saying " UR DAD WILL GET YOU OUT LIKE HE ALWAYS DOES" helloooo
Props to the editor! Those potatoes were golden. 😂 It's easy to overdo the inclusion of funny edits, but the balance has been good on the reactions I've seen so far. 🙂
I loved all books and all movies, my favourite is catching fire but this one is the one that portrayed the book the best, not only in this saga but out of others that i've seen this is one of the truest book representations
I think the reason the Hunger Games still worked as a movie adaptation and Songbirds and Snakes doesn't is because even though HG was written in first person as well is that Katniss' thoughts reflect her actions. We don't need the inner thoughts to know what she thinks and feels. Not hearing Snow's motivations and thoughts completely changes how he is perceived because he is, as this channel likes to say, a sneaky snake.
I thought it was okay the first time in theaters, I do like how it’s set up as the book in three parts and having read the book first (which she released during quarantine) I realized they changed a few things from the book like the deaths of certain tributes, but when I went back to read a bit of it I realized the movie actually made more sense and was a bit too long with the book mostly consisting of detail we didn’t much care for so part one was meant to be slow in pacing (and that’s usually what other reactors comment on when they haven’t read the book lol) but I honestly enjoyed it more when I went to see it a second time in the back row (better view, so automatically a better experience. Moved my score from a 7 or 8 to a 9/10 plus rewatchability) and I thought it was clever how she kind of left it open ended at the end of the book to decide whether Lucy gray or snow is the villain which I find to be a good argument for humanity and people who didn’t get the movie either never read the book or kind of missed the point imo
She was taking him out of his suffering not just killing for sport... it seems most people don't see how manipulative snow is and see those statements he makes and actions are good, but they are actually self serving, from the shirt tigress worked so hard to make, but among the other students when they asked about it he made insulting remarks about it. With Sirjanus he was mostly concerned with the prize and the possibility of losing it. With Lucy he may have felt something for her, but he ended up projecting his own warped mistrust onto Lucy when she lost trust in him and began to fear him. It didn't require much of a push. Pudgy was right It was Lucy's sent when he wiped her tears. They would have bit her if it was only Snow's scent.
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Pls react to the maze runner
They are making a new book then movie about haymitch
Yo, imagine how Snow must’ve pissed himself in his final year:
-hearing the Hanging Tree song again at the dam
-defiant girl from 12
-even the name “Katniss”
All reminders of Lucy
Fun (or not so fun) fact: The next winner of the hunger games (11th) is Mags, the old lady that volunteer in Annie's place on the second movie. She was also the first ever to make the champion's Tour! We might see this on a possible sequel.
I want a movie about the second quarter quell, the one haymitch is in. The games take place in a sunny beautiful meadow with a volcano
@@OPTIMUSCRIME02 Its confirmed that it is coming a book about that of Suzanne Collins and there will also be a movie! :)
@@juliabackbergkarnekull4833 really?! That’s so cool, there was a volcano and everything in the arena like the flowers, the lake and everything edible was really beautiful but poisinous and haymitch’s victory kill is just so badass
@@OPTIMUSCRIME02 I know!! I am so exitedddd
Snow actually isn't decent. He's always been bad. The one thing the movie couldn't completely relay from the book is his internal monologue. Snow is actually Sadistic, envious, ambitious, manipulative, an elitist and an opportunist who appears charming and nice. He's also not completely in love with Lucy, He just thinks he is. He loves her in the only way he knows how, by being possessive
Its more interesting if he wasn't portrayed as just evil tho.
Snow did nothing wrong I can’t wait to see how he builds Panem in the next movie
@@cklambo he’s not just evil, but he’s not decent or a good person either. People think all villains have to have this tragic backstory and be a good person who turns evil, that isn’t always more interesting people just think it is because they do that with everyone now, however Snow was not a great person who wanted power and got worse as it goes on. What’s interesting and frustrating with him is that he had plenty of opportunities to do the right thing in the story and you want to to route for him but he always ends up doing the wrong thing while justifying why he is in the right
@@clover2739mmhm, when I was reading the book and Coryo's thoughts, I was like am I reading it right? This trope feels more refreshing
Wild that you think he didnt love Lucy. Why do you think he was only being possessive of her?
The guy that they hung up in the arena was suffering hanging up there. It was a mercy kill.
Yes. Thank you. I meant to leave a comment about that, but didn't. He actually asked her to do it. That was what all the whispering between the two was.
What's so chilling about Snow as a villain is that through this prequel we realize that he very much had the capacity for love but ultimately he still chose to cross that line into evil
Not really in the books his inner monologue makes it very clear that he was already self serving and his love for Lucy Grey was more a possessive obsession. That being said the movie can’t really do an inner monologue and so I like how the audience basically sees the act that Snow puts on for everyone else.
He’s no villian
@@masonguthrie1257 He's self-serving and obsessive but he's not "evil" in the way we saw him as President Snow. He had the capacity to care and he could have easily chosen to be a good person that Lucy/Sejanus/Tigris believed he could be. In the movies that's more highlighted. Yes they couldn't really adapt his inner monologue word for word but they also don't make it obvious that most of the things he does was an act (there are various ways of doing that in movie format). There are moments of clear genuineness that they put in the movie that's intended to make the audience see there's goodness in him and isn't entirely heartless
@@cheekyramenexactly. His love of power destroyed the very little ounce of Hamburg he had within himself.
Hence the line, “It’s the things we love most that destroy us.”
@@masonguthrie1257well said
You misunderstood the scene were Lamina killed Marcus. It was actually a mercy kill, she put him out of his misery. There was no way he was gonna survive anyway.
Lamina, instead of becoming a ruthless killer, showed empathy and kindness to Marcus. That, in itself, was against what the Hunger Games are.
the world dont deserve for lamina
47:21 She wrote the song about the first hanging we saw, right when Snow got to 12. Arlo Chance yelled out for his girlfriend to run, and the jabberjays repeated his last words. “The dead man called out for his love to flee.”
Katniss Was a fighter forced to PERFORM while Lucy was a performer forced to FIGHT.
yall gotta let this rest
@@iflostpleasereturn6135 :-) I think this comes from a Suzanne Collins interview. It is definitely oft-repeated.
Katniss was not a fighter. Katniss was a hunter. That’s different.
People keep repeating the same line as you did, thinking they did a thing. You didn’t. Stop it.
@@arc7375i don’t think it’s that serious, touch some grass u weirdo.
@@arc7375 "she's not a fighter"
*shoots man in the chest with an arrow*
"She will put him out of his misery "
*She does*
"WHAT DID SHE DO?!"
whatt xD
not too many braincells between these two lmao
That’s why when Snow said “It’s the things we love most that destroy us” to Katniss he knew what it feels and how it can become an ammunition against someone because he himself experienced that vulnerability when he met Lucy Gray.
This movie kinda suffers from not conveying Snow's thoughts in the books to the screen properly. You only see the way he presents himself outwardly, without the internal thought process showing how much of a dick he is from the very beginning. Quite literally at the start with Tigris, for example, instead of just saying "best cousin ever!" you can read him thinking "wonder if she had to sell her body to get me this. nah, she's not good-looking enough for that is she", really showing that he really wasn't that genuine or kind at any point, which gets lost in the movie because none of those thoughts are shown...
DAMN
Its more interesting if he wasn't portrayed as just evil tho.
I mean if my sister was a lady of the night I might think the same
@cklambo he isn’t, though? A big part of both the book and the movie is that he does, at one point and in a curious way, care genuinely for a girl he's been taught to hate. He just does that while ALSO being a huge dick, internally mostly, about the people he cares about. He loves tigris, but looks down on her. He seems to care about Sejanus sometimes, but mainly as a tool. He cares for and even loves Lucy, but expects praise for it from her bc he's lowering himself for her. It doesn’t exactly make him more interesting to pretend he wasn't arrogant, selfish, and cruel, even as a teenager; people can be not totally evil while being assholes.
@@cklambohe wasn’t “just evil” in the books, either. He was a complete narcissist, but he had the ability to care- although it was just a little. He also had Tigress as his voice of reason.
This is also based on a prequel book that the author wrote years after the original trilogy books. In the prequel book, it's also more clear cut how Snow transitioned into becoming who he is because you can read his actual thoughts and how fucked up they are especially in the last part. For example, in the book it's not heavily implied that Lucy Gray set up the snake trap in the forest as it was in the movies. Through Snow's inner monologue you can tell that he was being extremely paranoid about Lucy Gray betraying him that he ended up hunting and shooting her in the forest. That's because in the books you see how easily Snow put together that Lucy is the last living witness to his crime and that made him spiral into paranoia. There's also a scene where the nurse who treated his snake bite told him it wasn't poisonous like he assumed it was.
Lucy Grey is her first name, her last name is Baird. She is the last victor from twelve until Haymitch wins the 50th games.
Coriolanus is actually already evil from the start. Coriolanus' all-friendly interactions with people are just a shallow level of him. In the books, we get to delve into his inner, narcissistic thoughts, which makes him more interesting to read. But I get the change since I can see it must be pretty hard to adapt ALL his inner monologues into his personality
it's a similar if not identical issue to the problem of Katniss' inner monologues and thoughts not being well represented. Katniss' inner thoughts in the books give so much more depth and history to the story, and Snow's thoughts do the same here. (such as the fact that snow never really liked Sejanus, but was happy to use their "friendship" to his advantage if he could)
Not evil, wounded.
@@PeverellTheThirdwounded yes, but many people were damaged from the war. Snow was incredibly egotistical and manipulative from the start. His internal monologue was in direct contrast to his actions. His trauma from the war is real, but his craving for power and control were always there. When he talked about Lucy Gray in his head, he’d think of her more like a rare object he owned and should be for his eyes only. He hated when she strayed away from being attached to him.
Its more interesting if he wasn't portrayed as just evil tho.
@@cklambo it’s not that he’s “just evil” - he’s incredibly smart and manipulative. It’s how he’s able to fool everyone into thinking his actions come from a good place, but when you’re reading, we as the reader can see that it’s all a big chess game to Snow.
55:30 one thing you have to understand is that in the box of the original trilogy when were in district 12 there are mentions of how the 10th hunger games were lost and there’s no record of Lucy winning and her existence is wiped out. All that’s left of Lucy Gray. It’s a song called the ballad of Lucy Gray. It’s only sung in district 12. The the books give enough information to completely tie in the ballad of songbirds and snakes that when you watch the movie, you will know why it’s worthwhile..
Did they actually mention Lucy Gray's name in the original trilogy? All I remember is Katniss reflecting on how District 12 has had only 2 victors and only 1 is still alive, Haymitch
@@sydneypeck2488 it wasn’t explicitly stated, but you could put two into together in the books. The fact that information is only known about Haymitch and his games and the fact that the 10th hunger games were erased from existence, and that no one really knows what went on during those games, and the information that is in the song, the ballad of Lucy Gray.
Coriolanus is never pure and kind hearted. I know the movie doesn't portray that very well - the book definitely does.
I think the movie portrayed him perfectly, we are just not living inside his thoughts like in the book. In the book he’s putting on a show externally but internally he is thinking the most vile things about people. The movie portrayed him exactly how he did in the book. Charismatic, manipulative and self serving. All his actions in the movie were self serving disguised as “helping” or being “kind hearted.” His suggestions for the games were only a way to earn the prize money, the same thing for helping a Lucy Gray win. He helped a Lucy win to earn the money. Even though he developed feelings for Lucy his goal from the start was to win for status and reputation.
@@Icycold21 The thing is that movies are a different medium of storytelling compared to the book they are based on and as such they have to adapt the material so that the story and characterization of the characters stay largely the same. I think the movie's script failed at that...
@@alexpapas99 That is very true. It’s hard though because there are people who are book purists and will hate everything they change even at the expense of the characters/story in the film. For example, In the movie Snows walks out while Lucy is singing “Pure as the Driven Snow.” That was done in the film to show that Snow is more concerned about Sejanus ruining everything more than Lucy’s song about her confessing her love. This got so much hate from book purists because in the book he doesn’t walk out during that scene but the film really needed to show his decent into evil so it makes sense in the film why he would walk out. I also don’t think the director wanted to portray Snow as evil from the get go because that’s not really what Suzanne wanted. Suzanne said in an interview that she wanted Snow to struggle with the good and evil. I do think that with the movie trying to stick so close to the book that it didn’t have the creative freedoms or risk to make the “evil” Snow in the book. It’s very similar to Peeta in the movies. Peeta is so much more dimensional in the book and in the film his character is really flat (even though I think Josh did a great job in the role) the script doesn’t do his character justice at all.
Did Lucy Grey live or did she die? We will never know. She is a mystery and will haunt Snow even tho he tries to forget her. Katniss and the Mockingjay will come and light the final fire to end his reign and the districts will be united under the song she wrote and in the end Lucy Grey overcame Snow ❤
37:12 'Who will watch the Games if there is no victor' as Coriolanus' very own statement, while, 60 years later, this idea would be the seed of the revolution when it was this principle on which the gamemakers made the decision let both Katniss and Peeta survive...
So in the film they didn’t point this out but at the Reaping Lucy’s name was not on the slip that was drawn. The girl that she put the snake on, her father was the one reading the names, and as revenge they decided to call her name.
the revenge was for Lucy Gray having been with Billy Taupe, not for the snake - Lucy Gray wouldn't even have been in a position to slip a snake down Mayfair's dress (or really had any reason to want to in front of so many and the entire country) if her name hadn't already been called.
They did mention that in the movie though. Lucy tells Snow at the zoo before the night of the games in the movie that the mayors daughter had her name called because she was jealous of her being close to Billy Taupe
@@thewitchiebunnyim aware of that. Quick message to you and the 4 morons who liked your comment, he called her name BEFORE she put the snake on her. Clearly it was not revenge for an incident that hadn’t even happened yet. I just didn’t state what the revenge was for. Thank you SO MUCH for “correcting” a statement that didn’t need correction.
@@joshuacoldwater sometimes the comment isn't for you, it's for those reading who might get confused and no one was attacking you.
@@Icycold21I thought she was talking about how she had DATED Billy-Taupe and the song was a message to him, because he had left her for the Mayor’s daughter. If she mentioned it, it was extremely quick and low-toned. I think she did AMAZING in this role, but at times she was speed-talking, and her accent was INCREDIBLY insane. It is different in every scene. 😂
Mags, The Old lady whom Finnick protects in Catching Fire, won the 11th Hunger Games. Ballad of Sngbrds and Snakes is the 10th HG.
She's also the first to experience Victors Village, as Snow came up with it after these games when he went to work for the Dr
I always find the scene in the woods when the snake bites Snow a bit telling. Who assumes the worst of people and their intentions? We don't know that Lucy PUT a snake under the scarf (if she had meant to kill him, wouldn't she have placed a venomous snake?) I find it more likely that she dropped the mother's shawl either to leave it behind for Snow, and/or because it was brightly colored and she didn't want it to be easily spotted as she slipped away to escape him. But a snake would be naturally attracted to a warm, soft place to hide between the folds, and could have simply slithered in by itself while Lucy was off escaping. Yet so many people automatically assume she had bad intentions to do harm to a man she had loved, just as Snow himself assumed.
What about the snake she was carrying in the beginning? I assumed it was not poisonous because we didn't see the woman die, just freak out after she put it down her dress .
@@derps0n839 yeah, we SAW her do that intentionally to a bully who had wronged her multiple times and who reveled in seeing her selected to most likely die in the Hunger Games. That doesn't mean she did it intentionally to a man she had loved when all we see is a shawl on the ground in the woods and a snake underneath it. She was obviously trying to get away from him, but what's the point of having a harmless snake bite him in the process?
@@angelalurtz3638 I think she deliberately hid the non-venomous snake there to distract him to give her more time to get away if he came chasing after her. Lucy isn't fond of killing, but she began to fear for her life after discovering that the man she loved is actually a coldhearted killer and liar. So she still wouldn't have wanted to kill him, but distract and scare him by making him think that he had been bitten by a venomous snake.
Seneca Crane, not “Secana”.
You missed Lucy Gray’s bow at the reaping, which was an homage to Katniss’s bow after she shot the arrow at the game makers in THG.
The thing with narcissists is that they can come across as *very* charming and likeable on the outside. I think this is hard to capture on film without making the character constantly give that "knowing evil eye" thing with every decision the character makes. So in my opinion, they made the right choice to have the audience initially charmed by Snow, and if you're paying attention instead of giving the movie a casual, distracted watch, you will catch all the little nuances that hint at his narcissism.
The saying "I am not made out of sugar", the rest of it goes I am not going to melt. Meaning it doesn't bother her getting wet in the rain. The snake under the scarf was just a coincidence, it more than likely crawled under there when she discarded it.
9:04 It’s highly speculated that this blonde girl (Maude Ivory Baird, Lucy Gray’s cousin) is Katniss’s paternal grandfather.
Gaul gave her students an assignment "design a punishment for our enemies so severe that they will never forget how badly they wronged you." Highbottom/Tyrion: *has a stupid, drunk idea*. That's it, that's the origin movie.
I haven’t finished the reaction, but even though the movie did a great job adapting the book, what they didn’t convey really well was that Snow doesn’t change, his real self finally comes to the surface. He’s never been good or humane, or truly cared about the districts. Lucy realizes that she is now a liability to Snow and she knows that he lied to her, that’s why she makes a run for it.
It’s theorized that Maude Ivory, Lucy’s cousin, is Katniss’s grandmother. Also, you can see why Snow hates 12 so much and hates Katniss so much, bc of his history with LG & D12.
I think when Snow says “it’s the things we love most that destroy us,” power may be the thing he loves most
“It’s the thing we love most that destroy us” very fitting, as what Snow loved the most was power, and chasing it was really what destroyed him
I like your comment on how Tigris was kind of Snow's guilty conscience, which made him cut her off. That makes a lot of sense...
Wellon first glance, but actually not... its a missconception that Snow was the one who cut her off. She left on her own terms. There is a theory about what happend.
The book BOSBAS is waaaayyy darker then the movie. In the book there is scene where Corio says Lucy would choose a disgrace if she could. To wich Tigirs says "Dont judge disgraces, during the dark days... everyone did stuff they are not proud of" Corio replys "Well... YOU didnt!" Tigirs looks at him and says "You were to young to realise how ""bad"" it really was. ... What im trying to say, Dont judge someone who had to choose between death and disgrace"
In case anyone needs help interpreting it, it implies realy heavy that Tigirs had to "sell" herself around age 10, to keep her family fed.
Now the theory goes, while Tigris disagrees with Snows politics, she followed her dream to become a Stylist in the games and remaind one of the best (she actually was the first) for around 50 years. There is a line in Mockingjay that said "She quit about 10 years ago." That would be shortly after Finnick won his games. There is also that one line from Haymitch, thats chilling every time, It says, meaning not word for word "Finnick O´Dare won his games age 14, the youngest ever. Because he was so young, the Capitol couldnt touch him, the first few years, but at 16 Snow sold his qualitys to the Capitol" When Tigirs learned about that, despite Corio knowing what she "had to do for her family" selling victors for ...well... she went, because that was her final braking point.
This is likely already commented, but just in case…. There is a strong fan theory that Lucy’s cousin, Maude Ivory (the blonde girl who sang), is Katniss’ paternal grandmother. There are several things pointing that way, including the location of the covey house being in the same place as Katniss’ family home in the seam. Also, Maude Ivory sang with Lucy, and was known to be able to remember a song after hearing it only once - a trait Katniss is said to also have in the books. Lucy wrote the Hanging Tree song about the hanging Snow witnessed right after arriving in 12. But she only sang it publicly once before it was banned. Yet Katniss learned it from her father. Also, the lake house - that is where Katniss learned to swim (which was rare in 12, and helped her in the 2nd games) with her father. Also, the plant Katniss is named after is typically called swamp potato in their district, but her father always called it Katniss like the covey did. There are other clues I can’t think of atm, but the theory is pretty plausible.
this is one that actually needed the two movie treatment
I don’t like how they changed Clemensia’s character. The class actually elected Coryo, Clemensia, and Arachne to write up their proposal, but Arachne died right before they were supposed to meet and write it. Clemensia and Coryo agreed to give Clemensia some credit when meeting Gaul. She already had her hand in the tank when Gaul told her about the scent and Clemensia got bit right as she tried to take her hand out. Due to the poison, she became different and a little more mean-spirited and even had her skin mutated to scales due to the poison. I think the directors were trying to make up for this and made her mean-spirited since the start since they couldn’t fit the whole story in less than 3 hours.
I think the effects of the snake bite really added some symbolism to the snakes theme of the franchise and how being hit by one can change a person’s nature.
I read somewhere that Lucy Gray was a performer who was forced to fight, where as Katniss was a fighter forced to perform.
Snow was very calculated, he was not kind and pure, he thought his friend was crazy for having sympathy for the districts, and he was just trying to get on top. I haven't read the books, but I heard his inner monologue is just dark and sadistic haha, I gotta read them
A book/movie about Haymitch is on the way, "Sunrise on the Reaping" in 2025/2026.
He went to the 50th Hunger Games which was the 2nd Quarter Quell. They had double the Tributes for that year, and Haymitch won in a sneaky, yet smart, way.
They also hadn’t fed them at all so her eating the flowers petal makes sense since it’s considered somewhat edible lol better than nightlock berries, amirite?
I've never read the books, but in the movie, Snow does not appear "evil" until he feels the power after killing that boy in the arena. He obviously has dark sides to him (from his father it sounds like), but they are supressed as long as he has to play other's games. When he feels powerful after that first kill, and he is starting to see the whole world as an arena, he has no scruples with killing anymore. I think he wants to pursue happiness and to "escape" the arena with Lucy Gray. And I think he wants to give the life up north an actual chance. When that goes south, he just gives in entirely to his dark sides and his philosophy. There are people like this, and if they are not stopped, bodies pile up.
The movie showing every time that Snow makes the decision to do the wrong thing or be selfish
Them: He didn’t become evil til she left in the woods
Are we watching the same movie 😂
40:05 Pudgey thirsting over short haired Snow 😭 same girl, same
Both the Hunger Games series, and The Ballad...is written from 1 (and ONLY 1) perspective - Katniss's & Coriolanus's. You guys are right, this one didn't hit as hard as Katniss's story, but I think it's because we can trust Katniss's POV as a good person, even though she's conflicted. I imagine it was hard for the writers to show Snow's dark side - from the beginning - without revealing that very dark side too soon. "...underpinned with his self interest." Yes, Spartan. Tigris saw him struggling, and tried...she really did. This is where I was very interested to see how they would pull-it-off. I think they did a great job, considering. Tom Blyth did it fantastically, imo. The books reveal the true thoughts & nature of the POV characters, so Snow being who he was and then who he becomes, was hard to capture on film. Still, again, I thought they (the writers) did well.
Great reaction, guys. I enjoyed watching one of my favorites series with you both.
*Edited:* I'd also like to mention that the reason there is so much song(singing) in this movie is a call back to Katniss. In the original book series, it's mentioned that her father used to sing to her when she was little, and one of the song's was "the hanging tree" (yes, the hanging tree was there even before Snow got there), and Katniss' mother put a stop to it. But she remembered the song because she loved her father. Songbird is a callback to the talent her father had. It it said he had a beautiful voice. I believe that one of the children that was with Lucy Gray & Coriolanus in the woods, is Katniss' ancestor (grandfather/grandmother). My guess it was the boy, who apparently loves katniss. That's just my theory, tho.
Let's talk about parents favoring one child above the other:
Imagine you have two daughters. And you name one after a beautiful flower and the other one after a potato :P
But the swamp potato plant we're talking about keeps people from starving to death in desperate, poor District 12 and elsewhere too probably. Katniss' father used to tell her that "as long as you manage to find yourself, you will never starve". Katniss is a hunter, provider and protecter, and possesses many of the traits Lucy Gray uses to describe the "swamp potato" plant in this movie. Primroses possess some medical abilities on top of looking beautiful. I think these two plants reflect Katniss and Prim Everdeen remarkably well. There are many indications in the original three books that starving to death is the most common way to die in many districts including 12. And everyone will need medical care at some point. Prim is ((was) )': ) a carer, medic and overall sweet. Point is, looks of the plant comes secondary to their abilities and whether they can be useful for human life or not. Looks and fashion, that is under the Capitol's line of worries.
The katniss plant has beautiful white flowers.
As a book reader, there are a few theories this book creates. Some think Lucy Gray is Katniss’ paternal grandmother since she called the roots katniss and she wrote the hanging tree song. I personally think the grandmother was Lucy Gray’s younger cousin because I personally think Lucy Gray died in that forest.
Also Snow was never a loving person, shown by his hypocrisy with Sejanus. He often talked about Lucy Gray in a very possessive and jealous way, even jealous of her ability to capture a crowds attention and move people. His humanity was only for his personal power gain
Edit: Also the original trilogy was always more emotionally moving for me too because Katniss was a more emotionally developed person. This movie and book are in Snows perspective and he does not care about anyone.
Many people think Maude Ivory (Lucy Grey’s cousin)was Katniss’s paternal grandmother because she can copy melodies she hears only once, a trait that Katniss mentions her father had!
Btw the next year is the 11th games and that is Mags (the old lady from catching fire) games and those aquatic mutts that gaul was feeding were used in her games.
Honestly the movie didn’t do justice to how psychopathic he actually is
Now you know why Snow had extra hatred towards Katniss 😂 She was so much like Lucy Gray who haunted him until his death.
The way you guys talk about this film it seems like you would really like the actual book, as it gets into more of how snow becomes who he becomes, as you spend a lot of time in his head
Yeah mate! Was waiting for this to drop soon...
EDIT: I haven't read the prequel but if you think of this time period ie Snow as a young man, as post WWII, that would explain why the games, arena and clothing etc were not as glamorous as the games and Capital during Katniss' time. Post war deprivation and rationing would make for a more 'primitive' games...
Its in the future, still...
Its à dystopy
Even if its à prequel its not on our past lol
Its just that the country just was in à war like 9 years ago
I personally love how the prequel film was designed to look more primitive. It gives off a more chilling and impactful experience watching it blind for the first time. I’m still not finished reading the book, but seeing Coriolanus’s narcissistic thoughts in the books made it seem even creepier than I originally thought. You either die the hero, or live long enough to become the villain. To put it simply.
50:30 _did_ she plant a snake? Or did a snake just crawl under for coverage from the rain?
Finally someone reacts to Tigris!
Personally, I think if a prequel it's made after the saga, you don't have to watch it first. That's why Suzanne Collins wrote it after!!
34:12 it was her scent because he wiped her tears with the cloth. They need to be familiar with her scent to save her
i hate the comments that say snow was *never* kind-hearted, because yes he was!!!
He just sadly only had Tigris as his only guiding light growing up and all these other negative outside influences and the need to save face obviously corrupted him. He clearly has emotions such as love and regret especially for Lucy Gray and Sejanus in part 3 only to flip the script completely as let his intrusive thoughts and overwhelming need for self-preservation take control.
obviously in the book his love for Lucy Gray is toxic because he only needed to learn love doesn't mean power and control and seeing Lucy Gray as his trophy wife. If he could've only actually built a life with her whether it wasn't shooting the mayors daughter- or actually running away with Lucy Gray he would've most likely actually learned to truly love another person outside of his cousin.
she would've taught him so much and let him grow- that's why he continues on for the next 64 years until Katniss!! Which then ultimately is his true demise because of everything that could haunt him of his past loves (Lucy Gray, Sejanus, and even Tigris at that point) manifested into Katniss, Peeta, and the rebellion.
44:02 Pure as the fresh driven snow. Unless I’m wrong, I think that means he’s not so pure, as the snow has been driven on.
The thing about this movie is that there is just not enough time to have everything included. There is so much missing like inner dialogue that are missing. What this movie (and book) did make me want was another book focusing on Tigris
This was actually my favorite movie out of the franchise, I loved it- and I wished it was longer. I love getting to see the creations and ideas added to the games, and how everything started. I also love Lucy because she's not entitled to a district, which helps her get away, and keeps her safe. Idk I loved it so much, and they are making a new hunger games about Haymitch's games, the 50th year, and its one of the craziest arenas, so I'm really excited to see all the ties and connections.
I just realised at 9:46 Lucy bows just like Katniss when she shoots the apple at the judges
Laminas death was so sad, just a 15 year old girl whos district partner ditched her for a stronger group, the way she looks at Treech and the way he cant even look at her reminds you these are just children
Suzanne Collins books are based on certain themes and this one is nature vs nurture; are you bad/evil from the get go or does your circumstance lead to the place you find yourself at. The book is great and I would highly recommend Pudgy to read as I think her inner Ravenclaw would love getting inside Snow's head. There was a lot left out in the movie and I'm so glad I read it first. It really should have been two movies. In my opinion while in the book Snow is often led by selfish motivations, most of his actions are to ultimately serve himself, there are signs of soneone who could be good. He had a very tragic start to life and didn't really have any great role models to show him right from wrong. He also grew up with a lot of resentment and with a grandmother who reminded him of who he was and what it meant to be a Snow even though they have barely anything left at the start of the book. Snow is very clever and deceptive quite naturally, he does have a natural preservation instinct, but again was this learnt by what he went through as a child? It really is facinating to me and i think Suzanne Collins wrote him so well in this prequel. When i first heard about it i wasnt that fussed, but im so glad i read it now, particularly as in the book there are so many more links and references to The Hunger Games we know as it starts to come alive during the events of ABoSaS with Snow coming up with a lot of the elements we know from the future Hunger Games; for example, showing the fallen tributes in the sky so they can keep track. A character who they left out of the movie mentions something regarding the tributes not knowing how many are left and Snow grabs onto the idea. The explosion creating a more immersive arena. In the books theres no cameras in the new tunnels so for long periods they have no idea what is going on, this leads to them adding cameras. Etc etc. So much more.
The way the weapons look here are more like the are how I envisioned them to look when I read the first Hunger Games book, way before the movies. Crude and makeshift, not chrome and tactical. I love how it's a blend of irony, humor, and poetic justice that it was a girl from District 12 who molded Snow into what he became, and it was another girl from District 12 who would be his undoing. I would like to see another book about the 25th Hunger Game, but done in a way where we have more than one person to root for. Make a lot them more tributes fleshed instead of just a few important characters while the rest are just one-dimensional paper people. I also wanna see how they hashed out the Quarter Quell system and see them writing down a bunch of ideas, including the one they replaced with Katniss's Quell.
Snow has always had goals of power that he’s wanted to achieve since he was a child, and he’ll do or say ANYTHING that we’ll get him there. He cared for Lucy Gray but never really loved her, he saw her more as being his possession (based off of his inner dialogue in the book). He only agreed to run away with Lucy Gray because he didn’t know where the guns (the only evidence against him) were, but when he find them, everything changes. The only remaining loose end standing in his way of getting back to the capital was Lucy Gray. One thing I wish they kept in the movie from the book was Snow’s hatred for Mockingjays. He saw them as being abominations because they were created from the mating of Jabberjays and Mockingbirds, and he even tried to convince the “peacekeepers” to hunt and kill all of them but was unsuccessful in doing so. With that in mind, imagine what he felt when Katniss literally becomes the Mockingjay in the future! Adding even more meaning the symbol!
actually snow was a bad person from the start but in the movie they made it seem like he became like that to be more understandable
Its more interesting if he wasn't portrayed as just evil tho.
How? In the first 10 minutes he is lying to his classmates about being rich. And tells Lucy Gray he is helping her win to earn the prize money (his main goal from the very beginning) and even suggested to Dr. Gaul to implement betting in the games. Betting on humans to kill other humans.…How does that make him a good person?
@@cklambo no
That scene where the girl kills the district 2 boy was a mercy killing not just out of savagery but also the ppl watching weren’t aware so they also viewed her as harsh when that wasn’t at all what she did
What a genius character. The actor KILLED it so well. I would gladly watch Snows continuous rise. For me- the last part was actually WAY more intriguing then the games and mentor part
Most read the book and see him as bad. I see the plain old way that humans are. It’s a constant battle between choices. His internal thoughts always battle between selfishly doing what’s best for him and the family, vs helping someone else also in need. He ended up choosing in a way that led him to lose his mind (although as did Lucy for betraying, which sent him over the edge)
Yea the Lucy he was shooting at was all in his head which explains the big footprints from him circling around the woods and not knowing what happens to her or where she’s gone drives him mad. And she left a long time ago due to the mockingjays echoing her song to him and making him go more mad since he already hates mockingjays (hint, hint) and apparently Lucy gray is an ancestor of katniss since that hanging tree song is banned from being sung again by capitol, so the only explanation would be that Lucy gray is katniss’ grandmother or great grandmother thanks to katniss’ father passing the song down to her and their spot also being that lake that Lucy gray swam in, and the reason katniss gets her name. And realistically Lucy gray and coryo wouldn’t have lasted as a couple bc they’re too different and he would’ve acted as if he owned her, so it’s good she got away while she could bc he didn’t hesitate to shoot her when things went awry
For me seeing this in theaters it was a great movie in my opinion. After the last movie being released in 2015 and coming back to see this one I was personally impressed. I don't think they did a bad job with having a prequal movie that follows an already huge success of a franchise. I ranked this movie a 9/10. I also think the cast was pretty good in portraying these characters!
This movie has a lot of strengths, I still found it difficult to really attach myself to, because even though it is about the origin of the games, we spend a lot of time with Lucy Gray and frankly, I don’t think we ever get much deeper than the surface.
Snow was a bit more developed of course but it was more about his turn in character, like his pivotal moment, and when he became a villain, but we don’t have a good idea about who he was before that… He seemed like a very ambitious young person, but his father was so crucial to his story, and we only see glimpses of him. Don’t ever understand if they were close, if it was abusive, his mother is seen in a single photograph, but you would think she would’ve played a big role in his personality… I don’t know just felt difficult to get emotionally invested in her for me.
There’s a new hunger games book and movie coming out based on haymitch’s life and games ‼️
after i watched the movie I was thinking about how I want you both to react to it, but you’ve never even seen the hunger games at the time so i’m glad yall’s reaction is finally here 😭
In the book sejanus had money from his father hidden behind his diploma so coryo basically robs him and continues to do so by taking advantage of his parents smh
I thought for sure there would be a "sneaky snake" comment when Lucy literally sneaked a snake into that girl's dress!
Pudgey is so fed up with hunger games that she has an allergy for them. 7:03
Can't blame you... after what happened with Finnick, still not recovering. Sorry for reminding me he is my favourite, with Katniss and Lucy Gray
Just so you know, they're coming out with another Hunger Games movie, and it's going to focus on Haymitch and his time in the Hunger Games! His was the second quarter quell, so it was the 50th anniversary and instead of 24 kids, it was 48 total (2 boys and 2 girls from each district)
Snow has never been a good person, he's certainly tried to help her in the arena but he's mainly trying to help himself! It was always him and his needs above all others, ready to do anything to achieve his ends! In the book, you can see that he sees Lucy Gray as his property, part of him surely loved her but above all he loved possessing her and knowing that she belonged to him! Snow was surrounded by love whether it was familial love through Tigris, friendly love through Sejanus and romantic love with Lucy Gray and yet he made the decision that power was more important to him than them and everything else! He could have had a life filled with love and happiness but that was never what he wanted, he wanted power!
Lucy Gray realised at the end that she couldn't trust him, he lied to her and betrayed his own friend leading to his death, she quickly realised that he would be capable of doing the same thing to her, she had every right to run away, it wasn't her fault he became like that and she didn't turn against him, she was scared and he was already a bad person! He had every possible chance of becoming a good person, but he decided not to take any of them!
Haymitch’s games book is coming 🤣🤣
For me it's 1) Catching Fire, 2) Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, 3) Hunger Games, 4) Mockingjay Part 1, 5) Mockingjay Part 2. I just genuinely don't think Mockingjay had enough story to cover two movies.
This series is based on the books. One day, we might get a movie telling the story for Haymitch or any of the other "Victors".
Issue with that is they'd be predictable. I want a Hunger Games book or movie where we have more than one person to root for, y'know?
Viola Davis, who plays the head game maker, is a PHENOMENAL actress! I first discovered her in the crazy crime drama "How to Get Away with Murdered don't hear the surname Grey or any mention of her in the other movies because Snow basically used his power as president to basically erase all history of her so she o lying exists in the tales people tell.
She was scary as hell. Love her!
@@angie-tq4ew me too! One of my favorites! I LOVE how she shames Julliard acting classes all the time, especially as successful as she is. It's hilarious. SHE even says she doesn't know why they keep inviting her to speak.
Most people (about 70% of the book readers) say that she was way to over the top for Dr. Gaul...
However... Viola Davis red the script and went all in. She was like "Oh, a comicbook evil person? Hold my beer" I love the fact, that she is doing exactly that, going completly off the rails.
@@thomasnieswandt8805 AMEN! That, in a nutshell IS Viola Davis as an actor. I LOVE THAT! "Hold my beer," lol. That's great. Did you see her most recent Hot Ones appearance a few months back? She slayed it!
@@thomasnieswandt8805 Yes. These books are one of my favorite series, and have read it many times (even this last one), and Gaul was a little more subdued in the book - yes, but I love the way Viola played her. It was exactly the way I saw her in my head, if imagining her outside of Coriolanus' POV.
One thing from the book, is more detailing about the song the hanging tree
I love how EVERY single hunger games book AND movie is a banger. Sure, they're not perfect. But damn, you gotta give credit here, they're really amazing.
Coronalius is always ambicius for power
"Oh yeah! Get her!" Relatable lol
there are a few theories on this movie...
1st why tigress was so close to her cousin as kids but wants him dead in the original movies the theory is since she implied to FUCK to keep him fed and he then put the attractive victors like finnick through that
2nd some think Lucy survived to be either Coin (unlikely cause she didn't love color, was too young & just as shitty as him) or Katniss's paternal grandma (but it's more likely she just lived out her days between districts rather than return to the covey in 12) & Maude Ivory became the grandma
I wish wish wish you'd read the book in your own time. You'll see how his mind works and how much a red flag he is. You might be swayed at first because of his mental gymnastics but reread it and you'll seeee. 🚩🚩🚩
been WAITINGGGGG on this, looove how smart you guys are and how fast yall catch on such a good watch
this a joke right? lmao
@@tygerjohnston7019 u read right compared to other reactors they caught onto the most i personally have seen lmao
Ah great observarions particularly about Snow catching fire 😮
Tyrion always exiling people 😆
You might b interested in the video "How NOT to Adapt a Book (same Director btw)" from The Writer's Block analysis on why this movie didnt quite have the same impact. Ill never be able to unsee the 👃 after that 😂
Pudgey what’s your sign? You’re so clever and make comnections so quickly I love it! 10:28
As other people have said, the movie is missing a lot of his bad traits. When you read the book you are reading his thoughts and POV which you don’t get in movie format.
Snow's origin story being that he's an incel is so funny to me BRUH
I'm beginning to believe yall don't pay attention much 47:18 " he knows he's responsible for it I don't get why " yall remember the fact that snow exposed him but not him saying " UR DAD WILL GET YOU OUT LIKE HE ALWAYS DOES" helloooo
Props to the editor! Those potatoes were golden. 😂 It's easy to overdo the inclusion of funny edits, but the balance has been good on the reactions I've seen so far. 🙂
I loved all books and all movies, my favourite is catching fire but this one is the one that portrayed the book the best, not only in this saga but out of others that i've seen this is one of the truest book representations
The song, Lucy write, its about the mand that is kill when Snow just came to 12. 🙂
Thanks for the video 🙂
I think the reason the Hunger Games still worked as a movie adaptation and Songbirds and Snakes doesn't is because even though HG was written in first person as well is that Katniss' thoughts reflect her actions. We don't need the inner thoughts to know what she thinks and feels. Not hearing Snow's motivations and thoughts completely changes how he is perceived because he is, as this channel likes to say, a sneaky snake.
I would have liked 2 films to get more of the story and more time with the different characters.
Fun rumor...coin is snow and Lucys child....
They never had sex
I thought it was okay the first time in theaters, I do like how it’s set up as the book in three parts and having read the book first (which she released during quarantine) I realized they changed a few things from the book like the deaths of certain tributes, but when I went back to read a bit of it I realized the movie actually made more sense and was a bit too long with the book mostly consisting of detail we didn’t much care for so part one was meant to be slow in pacing (and that’s usually what other reactors comment on when they haven’t read the book lol) but I honestly enjoyed it more when I went to see it a second time in the back row (better view, so automatically a better experience. Moved my score from a 7 or 8 to a 9/10 plus rewatchability) and I thought it was clever how she kind of left it open ended at the end of the book to decide whether Lucy gray or snow is the villain which I find to be a good argument for humanity and people who didn’t get the movie either never read the book or kind of missed the point imo
She was taking him out of his suffering not just killing for sport... it seems most people don't see how manipulative snow is and see those statements he makes and actions are good, but they are actually self serving, from the shirt tigress worked so hard to make, but among the other students when they asked about it he made insulting remarks about it. With Sirjanus he was mostly concerned with the prize and the possibility of losing it. With Lucy he may have felt something for her, but he ended up projecting his own warped mistrust onto Lucy when she lost trust in him and began to fear him. It didn't require much of a push. Pudgy was right It was Lucy's sent when he wiped her tears. They would have bit her if it was only Snow's scent.
The Katniss potato edit took me out 😂