i was fully expecting supports to top honestly, with how much damage adam warlock and mantis put out, and luna snow's healing with cloak and daggers healing
I think this lasting damage from overwatch because of how they handled there supports Turing them in better dps like illary beaing just a dps ult wifeleaver being the only true support and being similar to rocket but instead rocket dosent have to spend all of his time healing (sorry if this is a bit messy)
@@lordomemes4520 Periods help. Good comparison of Rocket and Lifeweaver Rocket has terrible damage spread, they need to reel that in a bit. They did that with Lifeweaver and it helps. High level gameplay they like Rocket for his totem that brings one player back from death. That's huge for high level ranks as statistically (based on old 6v6 Overwatch a 6v5 the 6 will win 75% of the time. Rocket's totem allows a reset in that to 6v6 again.
Tanks were done a disservice. Playing back as Doctor Strange was not how you play him in any situation but also dropping out him and magneto and focusing more on a brawler comp with hulk, thor, and cap would of provided much more success. Shield tanks are pointless without dps.
Disagree. I love strange. His shield heals itself. That being said thor cap and hulk would be needed for the team comp because they need to be bullying the dps characters.
@@Krunchtastic727 Nah you have to get in there as Strange when your Maelstrom is close to 100 and kill some squishies with it. If you just sit in the back, and just Maelstrom the enemy tanks (which he didn't even do in the footage), you don't get enough value on him. The shield then can be used to kite back after you used your burst damage. E.g. 1:27 Jeff is just a free kill if Strange walks up to him and uses Maelstrom. Try it and you will constantly be MVP on Strange!
Literally every support has insane damage aside from Jeff. And even Jeff has potential with the Luna Snow buffs. Mantis is literally a full fledged DPS with a stun. Luna is a lesser version of Mantis but easier to use. Adam Warlock has Zenyatta tier damage and a god-tier defensive ability with his HP sharing. Rocket struggles at long range but shreds in close quarters. Loki is a beast at long range with his triple AOE bursts. And Cloak is literally just better Scarlet Witch.
Adam warlock is the hardest hitter and the most consistent one at it too ....mantis doesnt hit nearly as hard , loki does hit for slightly more under one condition , that is both clones being alive and in los of your target and the shots land on an enemy first before hitting a teammate , but thats conditional and wont likely be happening alot. Adam just dishes out crazy damage out of the box no strings attached.
For future reference, when playing as strange and you are rushed by magic or iron fist etc, release your dark magic. I was so frustrated seeing it at 100 in this video but not being released when they’d get close. It’s a lot better then I originally thought, I get a lot of kills doing that when I’m rushed
1 tank 1 support only works if you have a very strong healer, I play luna snow, as my main strategist, and I got one of those team comps, and it's just impossible to heal everyone maybe jeff or loki might work better
A support having to keep 5 people alive while also having to focus on themselves when they may not even have abilities to heal themselves in the first place would not work. Plus if the other team is coordinated they can just beam down the support and it makes a chain reaction.
@@kylegriffin8783 imo that's probably number 2 in my eyes. I just think with how good healers are in this game, going 2 is best bc you actually aren't losing out on much dmg while still getting the much needed support. Take Loki for instance, solid heals and invul circles, but all of a sudden he's Bucky and takes out the whole enemy team. 2 healers also gives a lot more leeway for mistakes, since it isn't over if they get manage to get a pick on them early in the fight.
We had two support mains on our team. Good ones. I played D2 professionally. We weren’t the best, clearly, but we weren’t lacking completely. Maybe with a full stack of experienced support mains maybe it could work. But for the average joe? Hell nah
Conclusion: if you dont really know how to do anything other than shoot and aim ....then ofcourse youre gonna only succeed pulling off a full dps comp. On paper both full supports and full tanks are just insanely better than full dps teams , but you gotta know how to adapt to such comps and who to pick
Honestly that's perfect considering the game doesn't have role queue, it means you can win even when everyone picks dps, which was a death sentence back in overwatch
@@MILOPETIT It still is really. An even slightly decent 2-2-2 or 1-2-3 will absolutely clown on any full DPS lineup. Healing is really strong in this game and you simply won’t be able to kill them before dying if they have 2 healers or more and you have none. Strategists, every role really, also have good damage output so they’re not that easy to stomp. Ultron is also coming soon as a strategist and I don’t think he’ll be squishy so we’re gonna have a durable strategist potentially too.
And more important the skill set f ever played. I mostly play solo Q and holy shit. I am ever game the only healer and most games 5 dudes pick DPS and I still have the most kills. It’s so annoying that ever bad player always pick DPS 🫠
@@Dampfriemen9000Kills count even if you do 1 dmg to the enemy and someone else kills them. Support will always have more inflated kills on paper. It’s also why you see tanks having the most kills when dps are performing well
I expected DPS to win, so when he said the results surprised him, I thought about it, and could see the tanks and supports winning as well. Some Mantis, Rockets, Cloak get MVP and a lot of kills. Sometimes tanks steamroll even with one. Interesting that it was my first guess. I also thought about it since you typically go for the support or DPS first, unless the tank is away from the healer.
I tested out this experiment a couple days ago and my friends and I were able to win some games as all healers which was fun. The other team got pissed that we won
As a Magneto main I gotta say: Without my team I am nothing. I have protection, I have CC and I have a little damage. I will be a rock in stormy sea for the team as long as they profit off of the waves I break. But if the team fails I fail too. I am not getting the big killstreak - I am getting 70k damage tanked that doesn't get to harm my team.
Already enough of that .....dude that made the video is a moe ron kinda , no offense but he only knows one thing and that is how to aim and shoot , on paper full tank and full support curb stomp a full dps comp but you gotta know what to do as each hero ....for a tank comp for example , nobody should go something stupid like groot , you need a full dive comp because you outlive any and every comp , they should go something like thor venom magneto hulk cap dr strange , everyone dives the backline while magneto and strange alternate between damaging and shielding , whos gonna survive that ? As for healers you need something like , adam warlock mantis luna snow loki C&D jeff Jeff might be the weakest link but would rather have him over raccoon , without his ult there would be nothing to threaten the other team with in teamfights But in general , the team plays around adam warlock 1st and loki 2nd , in a full support comp theres already enough healing as is so you need mostly off healers that do things other than big healing numbers , adam warlock is the best case because not only does he dish the most consistent dps out of every support , but he also has his soul bind which provides the comp with tankiness which is much needed , the team plays around his soul bind , and then comes loki which has the highest conditional dps and healing if played right , the team should surround him and peel for his clones while giving him enough space to do damage too , luna and mantis damage and heal , C&D have to time their bubble and invincibility , while jeff hoses and bubbles the whole team from the back ......and holds his ult for dives
another factor could be variety. DPS has so many characters that it's a lot easier to forge a team that synergizes better with all DPS, meanwhile tank and strategist you're more or less forced to play a handful of characters because there aren't that many options.
I think 3 healers on a team with one tank and 2 dps is crazy good. We had a luna, matis, Adam, groot, star lord and hela. And it felt like we did so much healing we had no choice but to start doing damage ourselves. On top of that mantis sleep dart and luna snow ball is one of the best ways to stop yourself from getting dived.
In my experience playing Marvel Rivals with randoms I managed to get wins and close games with 4 or 5 dps on the team. As long as we had one healer or two we did pretty well as as 2/2/2 team. Granted these are a bunch of randoms with little to no commutation on both teams so you can pretty get away with almost anything if the enemy team isn't premade and lack communication.
my persobnal experience with firends is the samethough - 1 tank and 1 support to draw attention and fire on them, creating space and pressuring the team while the dps come in and kill everything. Works like a charm when uncoordinated, works even better with coordination - if you play with headsets and you can tell the healer and tank to rush in and draw fire, every dps can unleash. Moonknight will pressure the entire enemy team (well many)and keep the dps busy, while some assasin (like iron fist or black panther) and a sniper (hawkeye, black widow) eleminate the enemy healers. meanwhile the enemy dps will have perished duie to not getting any healing themselves and now its just the 2 tanks against 3-4 dps (usually the tank, heal and assasin kick the bucket)
This was definitely a good thought provoking experiment for what the roles have to experience. The game is a team game and it doesn't shy away from that. Independent play making is a problem where the tank and support want to also make plays and stand out too and that gives rise to numerous balance patches where the roles will be pointing fingers at each other because "he got a buff, i deserve one" or "my role feels useless" because they think the game is like League where only you have the ability to carry and everybody else is dead weight. Seen it with overwatch with the mega tank patch.
A 1-4-1 comp is usually what I see in my games consistently, both in qp and comp. I’m usually the one to switch to a support if we need more heals and sustain, but it’s such a good comp rn
I think the optimal output is 1 tank, specifically a good one who knows how best to keep attention while surviving, 2 support with one heavily focused on sustaining the tank and 3 dps to just absolutely chew into the enemy team having one be a dedicated backline eliminator/flanker whose sole mission is cut out enemy support. Though of course once player skills reach the plateau of high-skill across the board it likely evens back to 2-2-2 teams because by that point having "one good tank" is no longer strictly valid as so will the enemy and the option to add a disrupting dive-tank to apply pressure alongside a more protective one like Strange with his barrier.
There is two dps type. Ranged and flank. You should have tested them separately. If you did, you would know they suck. But you didn't. so you actually used two different classes.
@@will-zj5gq I will openly admit I suck at tanks. I still think they will struggle tho. We had 3 peeps on our team that have amazing tanks and they arguably did worse than me due to the sheer lack of sustain
Theoretically, I think the best team comp would be a 1-3-2 comp. Preferably a tank who can absorb damage without dying (like strange etc). Have a main healer to keep people alive and someone like Cloak and Dagger or a DPS strategist who’ll mainly be there to deal damage but also assist in healing if/ when it’s needed. Just need 1 DPS who can peel for the strategists and it should be a pretty solid comp. Obviously, every game is so different that it wouldn’t always work.
I see in the video that health packs are 150 burst and 150 over time. Also the established comp that is commonly used is 1 Vanguard 3 Duelist, and 2 Stratergist.
If you’re going to have to be a solo healer rocket tends to be the one I notice heals the best due to his orbs healing you, your target and then potentially healing someone you weren’t aiming for. You can’t be aware of all 5 health bars and you don’t have anyone healing you, so the continuous self heal and stray healing is what clinched many games. You do need a team that isn’t too spread out to really take advantage
I can only speak to quick play because I haven't touched comp yet. I've seen a lot of 1 tank, 3 DPS, and 2 support. I typically run in groups of 3 and everyone wants to play fps so we normally run Groot, Jeff and Frost. I (Jeff) can pump Groot while still healing Frost and Frost can heal everyone else. The only time we loss the team fight is if I get picked off of Groot (mainly when he ults and I get shoved off). Even if the DPS does nothing but die, we three are able to hold point until they come back.
what i have realized over 40hrs of gameplay as supp is more dps really isn't a blunder as long as they have more than 6 IQ, as long as they role properly and come back for heals and just don't magically expect their supp to fly across map just to heal them it usually goes better than 222 comps even if the tank is not particularly a tank player and only filling in, the 4 dps still bear the crutch
I use Wolverine as a mix between dps and tank if you manage to snow ball a fight and assist in all 6 takedowns his passive pretty much stays up granting him an extra 300hp before he falls. The best part is that you keep your passive if they can burst threw your durability buff and heals from supports making it easy to frontline for a bit.
For me this video will be like, 3 teans VS each other to de ide wich team is better, and the teans will be team 1: 6Sup team 2 6 dps and tean 3 6 Tanks, i think this qill be better
Today i was getting a lot of teams in quick play that was either all dps or 5 of them with one of the others and we ended up winning a few against more balanced teams. Gave me a good reason to try characters i don't normally use.
I had matches as Thor whre I was the only tank with one healer, and I still had MVP or most kills. That one healer doing much better than other matches where we had 3 healers. So its interesting how some matches will be MVP, others we didnt do as well. Then the ones where everyone in the team was close in all stats.
Just wanna say, my friends and I tried the 6 strategist team and we rolled hard. We barley died at all in our handful of games we played, and a few times we would even waste our ults just to do it. Like using Adam's ult to res 1 person (that happened more than the times it was needed for multiple people).
ya, it doesn't work as well in this game, because the other team will have 2 support and 1 or 2 tanks, plus the dps and the dps for tanks in this game are not great, so it can definitely smash some line ups but you can easily stomp it with others, surprisingly wolverine would destroy that line up with his max health dmg
@@GameBooAdvancePlus Yeah, 2 supports is enough to sustain the entire team, so a 3rd one can practically make everyone immortal. You’re definitely right.
To make this more optimized, you should've prolly made team comps that... work together. Teamups are (depending on the character) huge buffs. Like choosing adam Warlock and Mantis for a free revive while also having Luna and Jeffs teamup would make for a great full support team. Not optimizing the teams doesnt really feel like a good comparison espexially since most tanks and supports are harder to use than say most damages like hela who get free easy value. Not saying this was completely terrible but i wouldve liked to see well built teams so we can get an ACTUAL feeling of how one role plays together like a tank team consisting of two pseudo-dps (Thor and Cap) with a protective tank (Dr strange or magneto) then Peni and Venom for control and dive.
I had my best game ever with Groot, and the rest of the team said I carried them. 4 minutes to stop the convoy basically at the start and then 1 minute to get it an inch further in the swap. But that was only because I could trust my healers to keep me alive, and my dps to actually kill guys. I didn’t even get MVP, because what I was doing, crowd control, isn’t a metric that gets that award. But if the fact is that if an enemy focuses on felling tanks and there isn’t anyone dedicated to healing you, they go through you like paper. My next round as Groot failed miserably because of this, there wasn’t that same level of (perhaps accidental) coordination that was in the previous round and the enemy could just steamroll over me in my hubris. One thing that needs mentioning here that you didn’t cover, however, is the number and variety of duelists Rivals currently offers as opposed to strategists and vanguards. Simply put, they have more choices than both the other teams combined. So in a competition like this, the options for what a duelist team can do far outpaces anything that the vanguards or strategists can bring to the table. Additionally, duelists pretty much have full air superiority with the only flyers. Nothing is more annoying than trying to pick off a slippery Iron Man with nothing but vines and seed pods!
Its the best comp to make your support player hate all of you. My guess and what Ive seen most success with in the current meta, is a 1-3-2. Something like Dr.Strange/Groot, Psylocke, Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Mantis, and Cloak & Dagger. Works really well.
@@Acarith 1 tank can work really well in this game, especially if its strange, but I think 2 supports is a must because how strong healing is, so it could be 3 dps and 2 support but honestly if the 3 support were mantis, luna and Jeff or Adam, I think 3 support 2 dps 1 tank would be the best line up
@ I think that the issue with a 1-2-3 is that you become quite susceptible to dive comps. But overall I 100% agree. I think 2-2-2 works really well too if you have the right comp for it. Like maybe Thor, Dr. Strange, Psylocke, Bucky, Mantis, Cloak & Dagger or something like that. The 2-2-2 falls very flat if you don’t run the right characters.
@viktoranderas9541 Also true, but you're putting *a lot* of pressure on one person to carry the whole team. Not only that but if your team doesn't peel for you its just gg. It's just not worth it overall imo.
The problem with having only one support is with divers and flankers, if they get to you, theres no one to heal you while you are the only one getting focused. 1-3-2 work, 1-4-1 not really.
I think 2 tank 3 DPS 1 support is better though because tank healthpool is super good when paired with healing. So having a tank that can flex to counter dive attempts at the support and one that can play on the DPS gives the support that necessary survivability without abandoning the pressure on the front. Like what good is a barrier when you're blocking for characters with 800 hp? Not nearly as good as blocking for one with 250.
this was kinda cool, I reckon it would be cool to try out teams without one role, so do a few games with vanguards and strategist but no duelists, then a few with duelists and vanguards and no strategists, then strategists and duelists but no vanguards. Would be cool to see which class is missed the most
I'm new to hero shooters and playing quickmatch for now, mostly Luna. Often the comps are 4 dps one tank and one support, works out if the team isn't all over the place.
In ranked dive dps will hunt for you if you are a solo healer. In coordinated teams solo healing is fine if your team plays around you, however, in solo que your team is often oblivious to flankers and lets dps or Venoms take out their backline.
I feel like a majority of this is the players in this experiment simply not used to playing vanguard/strategist so there was a lot of floundering if the rocket racoon play was anything to go by.
Tanks in this game aren't there to be tanky. They are there to not get oneshot by Hawkeye (obviously the hawkeye bit was a joke, but they really do exist to survive burst damage). The point is that they live long enough to get healed. That's why I think the 2-2-2 comp is stupid. You should have 1 tank, then at least 2 supports and 1 dps in any comp. The rest can be filled how you want, but having multiple tanks really doesn't help much in my opinion because then the healers, who are the ones making the tanks tanky, are just split between 2 people now.
I've won some matches with all dps or only one support. I've even been a solo support in ranked and won. Casue if you just kill heir supports. It really doesn't matter that their on their team nd then you can just gun down everyone else.
DPS characters just have a lot of variety. Wolverine is damn near a semi-tank, they got range, pressure, and the overall best damage of the classes. Tanks have some variety but are very stuck in being a core aspect that you have to build around. Supports have more variety but their fundamental mechanics are too similar.
2 tanks, 1 support, 3 DPS or 1 tank, 2 support, 3 DPS has always worked about as well as the 2-2-2 for me (depending on my teammates) 1-4-1 works sometimes but only with certain combos on certain maps
This is nice but i wanna see u make a vid of all the possible teamcomp as in like 2 2 2 or a 1 4 1 like u say and rate which one is the best. It'll take a while though but i'll defo watch
I've been doing great with 3 supports. Cloak, Luna, & Loki. Maybe swap Loki with Jeff depending on the player. The rest of the team can pretty much be whatever they want and we'll win more often than not.
My friends and I did a 5-1 split with 5 damage and me on support (Adam warlock), we did excellently. We just killed everything before it could kill any of us and it was a lot of fun. Our 1 random switched to tank and I told them to stay on psylocke and we cooked.
2-2-2 is ideal, but ive been on a lot of teams that work as 1-3-2, and a few times where it was 2-3-1. i once played as the lone healer, and it was super challenging and hectic, but also super fun.
I'm a gm tank player and have to say tanks are horrible when they are on there own but arguably the strongest characters when they are properly backed and supported
as someone who mostly plays tanks and supports; i am close to quitting the game over the dps stacked teams. its really hard to play tank or support solo 1-4-1 and 1-3-2 comps are killing my desire to play.
Lol I've always wondered how these pairings would go and yeah 6 healers should be able to keep themselves in the fight but i didn't expect them to do so well. I managed to place 1st in my team being the only Tank as Captain America we had two healers a solid Dagger and Mantis and 3 decent Dps Moon Knight Spider-Man and Star Lord so you don't need to follow the 2, 2, 2 comp to win.
Sounds like it might be PEBKAC. Would love to see the best players the game has to offer try this. This looks more like a mad jumble based on the gameplay. But yea, Thor is really the only "Offensive" Tank in the game that does massive damage. Tanks, especially in this game, aren't designed to kill they're designed to create space (fontliners like Dr Strange, Groot, Magneto) and disrupt (dive heroes like Venom, Hulk and Cap)
my friends and I do a one tank three damage and two heals , My team stays on point while I flank with iron fists. i attack the back line or people that are just spawning back in trying to reach their team
I did notice that what makes most contribution for losing, are just bad duelists. No kills, no damage, no flanking, makes fights impossible to win. Bad healer or tank, will still do something, unless they are completely brainless.
I tried all support with my friends in a few mixed games and won 2/3 games. Certainly not consistent and I don't recommend it but he is right about the 4 or 5 stack support, especially with the team up abilities on some.
i think average player is going to run 1 tank 4 or 3 dps and 1 or 2 heals there will always be one flex player that will switch between dps and heals depending on what is needed
Wanna do stuff like this with us on Twitch? www.twitch.tv/tdt_streams
Ngl I thought you were going to put all 3 teams up against each other like a rock paper scissor shoot
@@Dannyldog same
Glad I'm not the only one who wanted to see that
Feel like that would be the most fair tbh.
This would have been WAY cooler lmao
Same
i was fully expecting supports to top honestly, with how much damage adam warlock and mantis put out, and luna snow's healing with cloak and daggers healing
I think this lasting damage from overwatch because of how they handled there supports Turing them in better dps like illary beaing just a dps ult wifeleaver being the only true support and being similar to rocket but instead rocket dosent have to spend all of his time healing (sorry if this is a bit messy)
Cloak does a lot of damage too. His leftclick is just an upgraded version of Wanda's leftclick and he gets quite a bit of burst with his E.
@@Eo-ms3kw yeah but doesnt wanda get like 4 left clicks plus damage boost with magneto on team?
If they were focus firing as a team maybe
@@lordomemes4520 Periods help. Good comparison of Rocket and Lifeweaver Rocket has terrible damage spread, they need to reel that in a bit. They did that with Lifeweaver and it helps.
High level gameplay they like Rocket for his totem that brings one player back from death. That's huge for high level ranks as statistically (based on old 6v6 Overwatch a 6v5 the 6 will win 75% of the time. Rocket's totem allows a reset in that to 6v6 again.
Tanks were done a disservice. Playing back as Doctor Strange was not how you play him in any situation but also dropping out him and magneto and focusing more on a brawler comp with hulk, thor, and cap would of provided much more success. Shield tanks are pointless without dps.
Disagree. I love strange. His shield heals itself. That being said thor cap and hulk would be needed for the team comp because they need to be bullying the dps characters.
@Krunchtastic727 u disagree and then changed your mind? What
I agree. They had no back line aggressors accept Venom at times.
Venom + Thor + Cap + Hulk = Bully a dps or support and get out.
@@Krunchtastic727 Nah you have to get in there as Strange when your Maelstrom is close to 100 and kill some squishies with it. If you just sit in the back, and just Maelstrom the enemy tanks (which he didn't even do in the footage), you don't get enough value on him. The shield then can be used to kite back after you used your burst damage.
E.g. 1:27 Jeff is just a free kill if Strange walks up to him and uses Maelstrom. Try it and you will constantly be MVP on Strange!
Rank 1 in the world was a strange 1 trick, people just suck overall at the highest lvl shield tanks carry
in support the hardest hitters are mantis and loki. your loki kinda did not understand his kit.
I run Loki ( ipopquiz)
I’ve gotten some really good runs just playing support . Positioning is a must tho.
Adam Warlock too
Literally every support has insane damage aside from Jeff. And even Jeff has potential with the Luna Snow buffs.
Mantis is literally a full fledged DPS with a stun.
Luna is a lesser version of Mantis but easier to use.
Adam Warlock has Zenyatta tier damage and a god-tier defensive ability with his HP sharing.
Rocket struggles at long range but shreds in close quarters.
Loki is a beast at long range with his triple AOE bursts.
And Cloak is literally just better Scarlet Witch.
@@LFanimes333I have a way easier time with mantis than with Luna idk why
Adam warlock is the hardest hitter and the most consistent one at it too ....mantis doesnt hit nearly as hard , loki does hit for slightly more under one condition , that is both clones being alive and in los of your target and the shots land on an enemy first before hitting a teammate , but thats conditional and wont likely be happening alot.
Adam just dishes out crazy damage out of the box no strings attached.
For future reference, when playing as strange and you are rushed by magic or iron fist etc, release your dark magic. I was so frustrated seeing it at 100 in this video but not being released when they’d get close. It’s a lot better then I originally thought, I get a lot of kills doing that when I’m rushed
it drove me insane seeing the dark magic capping out so much
1 tank 1 support only works if you have a very strong healer, I play luna snow, as my main strategist, and I got one of those team comps, and it's just impossible to heal everyone maybe jeff or loki might work better
Loki is so good. He's my main. Also cloak and dagger has been getting me close to 70% win rates
A support having to keep 5 people alive while also having to focus on themselves when they may not even have abilities to heal themselves in the first place would not work. Plus if the other team is coordinated they can just beam down the support and it makes a chain reaction.
Did a 5 DPS and 1 healer game as C&D, and we absolutely stomped. So as long as you have a big healing output strategist, it can so definitely work
@@terra593 moon knight kinda required, the heal output feels rather low per tick
1 tank 2 healers, one just to focus on the tank the rest for the dps
when I’m playing quick matches the most common comp I see is 3 dps 2 healer and 1 tank and most of the time it works out fine
ur forgetting 1
oh shoot thanks it’s 2 healers
Best team comp
I truly believe the best comp is 2 tank 3 dps 1 healer. Assuming the healer is actually good
@@kylegriffin8783 imo that's probably number 2 in my eyes. I just think with how good healers are in this game, going 2 is best bc you actually aren't losing out on much dmg while still getting the much needed support.
Take Loki for instance, solid heals and invul circles, but all of a sudden he's Bucky and takes out the whole enemy team.
2 healers also gives a lot more leeway for mistakes, since it isn't over if they get manage to get a pick on them early in the fight.
Looking at that snip of gameplay i do believe that the support thing was a skill issue lol.
We had two support mains on our team. Good ones. I played D2 professionally. We weren’t the best, clearly, but we weren’t lacking completely. Maybe with a full stack of experienced support mains maybe it could work. But for the average joe? Hell nah
@@TDTwo2 well the average joe do tend to play characters that focus on doing damage
Ah so my whole team instalocking DPS in quickplay is simply doing the optimal build! That must be it
It makes sense because 1 tank 2 supports 3 dps is the comp I've seen the most. Probably the same amount if not more than a 2-2-2 split
Conclusion: You don't need to tank or heal damage if your enemies are dead.
Conclusion: if you dont really know how to do anything other than shoot and aim ....then ofcourse youre gonna only succeed pulling off a full dps comp.
On paper both full supports and full tanks are just insanely better than full dps teams , but you gotta know how to adapt to such comps and who to pick
Honestly that's perfect considering the game doesn't have role queue, it means you can win even when everyone picks dps, which was a death sentence back in overwatch
@@MILOPETIT It still is really. An even slightly decent 2-2-2 or 1-2-3 will absolutely clown on any full DPS lineup. Healing is really strong in this game and you simply won’t be able to kill them before dying if they have 2 healers or more and you have none.
Strategists, every role really, also have good damage output so they’re not that easy to stomp. Ultron is also coming soon as a strategist and I don’t think he’ll be squishy so we’re gonna have a durable strategist potentially too.
@CenoriaWoah Right, sorry I forgot to give context : I don't give a shit about competitive and I don't think anyone should
@CenoriaWoah Someone needs to try the 3-0-3 lineup and i mean 3 tanks 3 healers
Theres a multitude of compositions that all play very effectively.
It just heavily depends on the map and hero match ups.
And more important the skill set f ever played. I mostly play solo Q and holy shit. I am ever game the only healer and most games 5 dudes pick DPS and I still have the most kills. It’s so annoying that ever bad player always pick DPS 🫠
@@Dampfriemen9000Kills count even if you do 1 dmg to the enemy and someone else kills them. Support will always have more inflated kills on paper. It’s also why you see tanks having the most kills when dps are performing well
@ i mean damage and not kills. My bad.
I expected DPS to win, so when he said the results surprised him, I thought about it, and could see the tanks and supports winning as well. Some Mantis, Rockets, Cloak get MVP and a lot of kills.
Sometimes tanks steamroll even with one.
Interesting that it was my first guess. I also thought about it since you typically go for the support or DPS first, unless the tank is away from the healer.
I tested out this experiment a couple days ago and my friends and I were able to win some games as all healers which was fun. The other team got pissed that we won
Now you have to get 12 people together and do role wars.
You'd think that tanks could... y'know... tank.
They can, but not much else. And a good tank needs a good support.
Tanks need their teams support and dmg to get picks. They need their team just like a healer needs their team to protect them.
As a Magneto main I gotta say: Without my team I am nothing. I have protection, I have CC and I have a little damage. I will be a rock in stormy sea for the team as long as they profit off of the waves I break. But if the team fails I fail too. I am not getting the big killstreak - I am getting 70k damage tanked that doesn't get to harm my team.
Already enough of that .....dude that made the video is a moe ron kinda , no offense but he only knows one thing and that is how to aim and shoot , on paper full tank and full support curb stomp a full dps comp but you gotta know what to do as each hero ....for a tank comp for example , nobody should go something stupid like groot , you need a full dive comp because you outlive any and every comp , they should go something like thor venom magneto hulk cap dr strange , everyone dives the backline while magneto and strange alternate between damaging and shielding , whos gonna survive that ?
As for healers you need something like , adam warlock mantis luna snow loki C&D jeff
Jeff might be the weakest link but would rather have him over raccoon , without his ult there would be nothing to threaten the other team with in teamfights
But in general , the team plays around adam warlock 1st and loki 2nd , in a full support comp theres already enough healing as is so you need mostly off healers that do things other than big healing numbers , adam warlock is the best case because not only does he dish the most consistent dps out of every support , but he also has his soul bind which provides the comp with tankiness which is much needed , the team plays around his soul bind , and then comes loki which has the highest conditional dps and healing if played right , the team should surround him and peel for his clones while giving him enough space to do damage too , luna and mantis damage and heal , C&D have to time their bubble and invincibility , while jeff hoses and bubbles the whole team from the back ......and holds his ult for dives
Yeah you tank, but what’s the point if you don’t got people to back you up.
2:30 you know what else is massive?
LOL
Your mo- sorry i watch regular show yesterday lol
The lower taper fade meme. It’s still MASSIVE I’m seeing new ones pop up every day
lemme guess. Your mom? 😒
another factor could be variety. DPS has so many characters that it's a lot easier to forge a team that synergizes better with all DPS, meanwhile tank and strategist you're more or less forced to play a handful of characters because there aren't that many options.
7:47 Chat is just arguing Nintendo vs PlayStation lmao
My friends and i did a six stack of healers only. We absolutely dominated. We had no issue keeping our heath up and killing the enemy.
I think 3 healers on a team with one tank and 2 dps is crazy good. We had a luna, matis, Adam, groot, star lord and hela. And it felt like we did so much healing we had no choice but to start doing damage ourselves. On top of that mantis sleep dart and luna snow ball is one of the best ways to stop yourself from getting dived.
In my experience playing Marvel Rivals with randoms I managed to get wins and close games with 4 or 5 dps on the team. As long as we had one healer or two we did pretty well as as 2/2/2 team. Granted these are a bunch of randoms with little to no commutation on both teams so you can pretty get away with almost anything if the enemy team isn't premade and lack communication.
do this again but with 1 and 5 of each combination. 1 tank 5 heals, 1 tank 5 dps, 1 heal 5 tanks, 1 heal 5 dps and 1 dps 5 heals
my persobnal experience with firends is the samethough - 1 tank and 1 support to draw attention and fire on them, creating space and pressuring the team while the dps come in and kill everything. Works like a charm when uncoordinated, works even better with coordination - if you play with headsets and you can tell the healer and tank to rush in and draw fire, every dps can unleash. Moonknight will pressure the entire enemy team (well many)and keep the dps busy, while some assasin (like iron fist or black panther) and a sniper (hawkeye, black widow) eleminate the enemy healers. meanwhile the enemy dps will have perished duie to not getting any healing themselves and now its just the 2 tanks against 3-4 dps (usually the tank, heal and assasin kick the bucket)
2:28 yknow what else is massive?
my mom!
This was definitely a good thought provoking experiment for what the roles have to experience. The game is a team game and it doesn't shy away from that. Independent play making is a problem where the tank and support want to also make plays and stand out too and that gives rise to numerous balance patches where the roles will be pointing fingers at each other because "he got a buff, i deserve one" or "my role feels useless" because they think the game is like League where only you have the ability to carry and everybody else is dead weight. Seen it with overwatch with the mega tank patch.
A 1-4-1 comp is usually what I see in my games consistently, both in qp and comp. I’m usually the one to switch to a support if we need more heals and sustain, but it’s such a good comp rn
I think the optimal output is 1 tank, specifically a good one who knows how best to keep attention while surviving, 2 support with one heavily focused on sustaining the tank and 3 dps to just absolutely chew into the enemy team having one be a dedicated backline eliminator/flanker whose sole mission is cut out enemy support.
Though of course once player skills reach the plateau of high-skill across the board it likely evens back to 2-2-2 teams because by that point having "one good tank" is no longer strictly valid as so will the enemy and the option to add a disrupting dive-tank to apply pressure alongside a more protective one like Strange with his barrier.
Solo Tanking is sure a thing I had to do a lot. Magneto is ok at it imo since he has his infinite hp shield and his bubble.
Plus we currently have more characters for DPS compare to the other two, so it might change if we get more characters for the two.
1-4-1 only works if the duelists aren't feeding, 1-2-3 is the sweetspot in my experince, 2-1-3 crushes everytime (tank-dps-supp)
123 best
There is two dps type. Ranged and flank. You should have tested them separately. If you did, you would know they suck. But you didn't. so you actually used two different classes.
I main all 3 types of DPS: consistent, flank, and ranged. I have no issues with any. This may be a skill issue im sorry to say
@@TDTwo2the only skill issue was you using dr strange in the back and barely using his shield.
@@will-zj5gq I will openly admit I suck at tanks. I still think they will struggle tho. We had 3 peeps on our team that have amazing tanks and they arguably did worse than me due to the sheer lack of sustain
is there a way to do a non matchmaking battle? I think tanks would do better in a class war if the enemy team had a bad composition too
Custom match. I often put AI against one another. You can put a full team of punishers vs a whole team of Lokis for example
Theoretically, I think the best team comp would be a 1-3-2 comp. Preferably a tank who can absorb damage without dying (like strange etc). Have a main healer to keep people alive and someone like Cloak and Dagger or a DPS strategist who’ll mainly be there to deal damage but also assist in healing if/ when it’s needed. Just need 1 DPS who can peel for the strategists and it should be a pretty solid comp.
Obviously, every game is so different that it wouldn’t always work.
I thought he was finna do a custom 6 v 6 v 6 match 😂😂😂😂
I see in the video that health packs are 150 burst and 150 over time. Also the established comp that is commonly used is 1 Vanguard 3 Duelist, and 2 Stratergist.
I really like how 1 tank, 3 dps, and two supports feel
If you’re going to have to be a solo healer rocket tends to be the one I notice heals the best due to his orbs healing you, your target and then potentially healing someone you weren’t aiming for. You can’t be aware of all 5 health bars and you don’t have anyone healing you, so the continuous self heal and stray healing is what clinched many games. You do need a team that isn’t too spread out to really take advantage
I can only speak to quick play because I haven't touched comp yet. I've seen a lot of 1 tank, 3 DPS, and 2 support. I typically run in groups of 3 and everyone wants to play fps so we normally run Groot, Jeff and Frost. I (Jeff) can pump Groot while still healing Frost and Frost can heal everyone else. The only time we loss the team fight is if I get picked off of Groot (mainly when he ults and I get shoved off). Even if the DPS does nothing but die, we three are able to hold point until they come back.
what i have realized over 40hrs of gameplay as supp is more dps really isn't a blunder as long as they have more than 6 IQ, as long as they role properly and come back for heals and just don't magically expect their supp to fly across map just to heal them it usually goes better than 222 comps even if the tank is not particularly a tank player and only filling in, the 4 dps still bear the crutch
I use Wolverine as a mix between dps and tank if you manage to snow ball a fight and assist in all 6 takedowns his passive pretty much stays up granting him an extra 300hp before he falls. The best part is that you keep your passive if they can burst threw your durability buff and heals from supports making it easy to frontline for a bit.
For me this video will be like, 3 teans VS each other to de ide wich team is better, and the teans will be team 1: 6Sup team 2 6 dps and tean 3 6 Tanks, i think this qill be better
Does this mean my team should all insta lock dps?
I always like the team layout of 1 tank, 3 dps, and 2 support.
Today i was getting a lot of teams in quick play that was either all dps or 5 of them with one of the others and we ended up winning a few against more balanced teams. Gave me a good reason to try characters i don't normally use.
also there is a way more dps then tanks and supports so the mix is more vast
I had matches as Thor whre I was the only tank with one healer, and I still had MVP or most kills. That one healer doing much better than other matches where we had 3 healers.
So its interesting how some matches will be MVP, others we didnt do as well. Then the ones where everyone in the team was close in all stats.
I basically did this yesterday with my friends. Only had 5 people but 6 Supports was surprisingly strong
0:50 YO WAIT HOW DID YOU CHANGE DR STRANGE'S DARK MAGIC COLOR TO GREEN???
team up with hulk
@@adalbertoortiz450 that's so disappointing
i found 1 tank two supports and 3 dps to be the best. since it has extra damage and two healers to keep themselves alive along with there tank.
Just wanna say, my friends and I tried the 6 strategist team and we rolled hard. We barley died at all in our handful of games we played, and a few times we would even waste our ults just to do it. Like using Adam's ult to res 1 person (that happened more than the times it was needed for multiple people).
"You dont need to deal with enemies if everyone is dead"
My teamates
in high rank the one i heard is the strongest is 3 tank 3 support
Goats
ya, it doesn't work as well in this game, because the other team will have 2 support and 1 or 2 tanks, plus the dps and the dps for tanks in this game are not great, so it can definitely smash some line ups but you can easily stomp it with others, surprisingly wolverine would destroy that line up with his max health dmg
@@lucyfer-pk9ey yeah this game needs to make sure tank doesn't get too strong
Nah its 2 tank 1 psylocke 3 support. It's horribly cancerous to play against.
@@GameBooAdvancePlus Yeah, 2 supports is enough to sustain the entire team, so a 3rd one can practically make everyone immortal.
You’re definitely right.
To make this more optimized, you should've prolly made team comps that... work together. Teamups are (depending on the character) huge buffs. Like choosing adam Warlock and Mantis for a free revive while also having Luna and Jeffs teamup would make for a great full support team. Not optimizing the teams doesnt really feel like a good comparison espexially since most tanks and supports are harder to use than say most damages like hela who get free easy value.
Not saying this was completely terrible but i wouldve liked to see well built teams so we can get an ACTUAL feeling of how one role plays together like a tank team consisting of two pseudo-dps (Thor and Cap) with a protective tank (Dr strange or magneto) then Peni and Venom for control and dive.
I had my best game ever with Groot, and the rest of the team said I carried them. 4 minutes to stop the convoy basically at the start and then 1 minute to get it an inch further in the swap. But that was only because I could trust my healers to keep me alive, and my dps to actually kill guys. I didn’t even get MVP, because what I was doing, crowd control, isn’t a metric that gets that award. But if the fact is that if an enemy focuses on felling tanks and there isn’t anyone dedicated to healing you, they go through you like paper. My next round as Groot failed miserably because of this, there wasn’t that same level of (perhaps accidental) coordination that was in the previous round and the enemy could just steamroll over me in my hubris.
One thing that needs mentioning here that you didn’t cover, however, is the number and variety of duelists Rivals currently offers as opposed to strategists and vanguards. Simply put, they have more choices than both the other teams combined. So in a competition like this, the options for what a duelist team can do far outpaces anything that the vanguards or strategists can bring to the table. Additionally, duelists pretty much have full air superiority with the only flyers. Nothing is more annoying than trying to pick off a slippery Iron Man with nothing but vines and seed pods!
I agree 1 tank 1 support, that's the comp that I've won the most with as a scrub rank player
Its the best comp to make your support player hate all of you. My guess and what Ive seen most success with in the current meta, is a 1-3-2. Something like Dr.Strange/Groot, Psylocke, Winter Soldier, Hawkeye, Mantis, and Cloak & Dagger. Works really well.
@@Acarith 1 tank can work really well in this game, especially if its strange, but I think 2 supports is a must because how strong healing is, so it could be 3 dps and 2 support but honestly if the 3 support were mantis, luna and Jeff or Adam, I think 3 support 2 dps 1 tank would be the best line up
@ I think that the issue with a 1-2-3 is that you become quite susceptible to dive comps. But overall I 100% agree. I think 2-2-2 works really well too if you have the right comp for it. Like maybe Thor, Dr. Strange, Psylocke, Bucky, Mantis, Cloak & Dagger or something like that. The 2-2-2 falls very flat if you don’t run the right characters.
Having one support works great as long as that support doesn't die. Then you're kinda screwed. Which is why 2 supports is the safer play.
@viktoranderas9541 Also true, but you're putting *a lot* of pressure on one person to carry the whole team. Not only that but if your team doesn't peel for you its just gg. It's just not worth it overall imo.
My six stack has been running five dps and a jeff lmao it gives enough heals to stay up and enough pressure to just steamroll point
The problem with having only one support is with divers and flankers, if they get to you, theres no one to heal you while you are the only one getting focused. 1-3-2 work, 1-4-1 not really.
Im a plat and you guys did good as tanks, wish i had more people like you guys on my teams
LMFAO no way you mentioned Flats as an example of a super skilled gamer 🤣🤣
I think 2 tank 3 DPS 1 support is better though because tank healthpool is super good when paired with healing. So having a tank that can flex to counter dive attempts at the support and one that can play on the DPS gives the support that necessary survivability without abandoning the pressure on the front. Like what good is a barrier when you're blocking for characters with 800 hp? Not nearly as good as blocking for one with 250.
this was kinda cool, I reckon it would be cool to try out teams without one role, so do a few games with vanguards and strategist but no duelists, then a few with duelists and vanguards and no strategists, then strategists and duelists but no vanguards. Would be cool to see which class is missed the most
Any potential for a 3 or 4 healer team composition?
Good video was little surpriseed at the premace. You should do a rock papaer scissors test of this that would be interesting to see.
I'm new to hero shooters and playing quickmatch for now, mostly Luna. Often the comps are 4 dps one tank and one support, works out if the team isn't all over the place.
In ranked dive dps will hunt for you if you are a solo healer. In coordinated teams solo healing is fine if your team plays around you, however, in solo que your team is often oblivious to flankers and lets dps or Venoms take out their backline.
I feel like a majority of this is the players in this experiment simply not used to playing vanguard/strategist so there was a lot of floundering if the rocket racoon play was anything to go by.
* I * am no support but I had two very good supports with me. They also struggled
Tanks in this game aren't there to be tanky. They are there to not get oneshot by Hawkeye (obviously the hawkeye bit was a joke, but they really do exist to survive burst damage). The point is that they live long enough to get healed. That's why I think the 2-2-2 comp is stupid. You should have 1 tank, then at least 2 supports and 1 dps in any comp. The rest can be filled how you want, but having multiple tanks really doesn't help much in my opinion because then the healers, who are the ones making the tanks tanky, are just split between 2 people now.
I've won some matches with all dps or only one support. I've even been a solo support in ranked and won. Casue if you just kill heir supports. It really doesn't matter that their on their team nd then you can just gun down everyone else.
If the opposing team has a dive dps or venom that constantly targets you that comp falls apart. If you die your whole team dies.
@Voodoo_Occasions yeah it's not a good strategy. But it's possible to win like that. Against certain teams.
@viktoranderas9541 fs
DPS characters just have a lot of variety. Wolverine is damn near a semi-tank, they got range, pressure, and the overall best damage of the classes. Tanks have some variety but are very stuck in being a core aspect that you have to build around. Supports have more variety but their fundamental mechanics are too similar.
I want to see the opposite now what's best no supports no DPS or no tanks
2 tanks, 1 support, 3 DPS or 1 tank, 2 support, 3 DPS has always worked about as well as the 2-2-2 for me (depending on my teammates)
1-4-1 works sometimes but only with certain combos on certain maps
This is nice but i wanna see u make a vid of all the possible teamcomp as in like 2 2 2 or a 1 4 1 like u say and rate which one is the best. It'll take a while though but i'll defo watch
1 tank 1 support 4 dps, we are going back to the mmorpg days XD
Trying this myself with friends on pc, I found supports to be WAY better and the only comp that got us any wins.
I'm sure that them losing as 6 strategist is a clear skill issue.
I've been doing great with 3 supports. Cloak, Luna, & Loki. Maybe swap Loki with Jeff depending on the player. The rest of the team can pretty much be whatever they want and we'll win more often than not.
On the healer team you should of swaped cloak and dagger or Rocket with Adam ngl
My friends and I did a 5-1 split with 5 damage and me on support (Adam warlock), we did excellently. We just killed everything before it could kill any of us and it was a lot of fun. Our 1 random switched to tank and I told them to stay on psylocke and we cooked.
Kinda want to see a 5+1 version of this
Who would've guessed that it was dps and it wasn't even close.
Your outro music, from that one beats music game?
Ye
The algorithm finally gave me you second channel!
Not kidding my favorite team comp before this video was 1 tank, 2 support, and 3 dps, which matches your rankings
1-4-1 was actually one of the strategies to counter 3-3 goats meta in OW pro play
2-2-2 is ideal, but ive been on a lot of teams that work as 1-3-2, and a few times where it was 2-3-1.
i once played as the lone healer, and it was super challenging and hectic, but also super fun.
Was an iron fist or black panther in your solo healing match?
Players: *No one picks tank or support*
Devs: Let's make all Damage Team viable then
I'm a gm tank player and have to say tanks are horrible when they are on there own but arguably the strongest characters when they are properly backed and supported
Incredibox outro??? Immediately subscribed
So many comps work with good team play, I bet the 6 tanks could work given a good chance but not surprised the Supports/DPS work better/best
Well not surprised, this is the reason 1 tank, 2 strat, 3 dps is standard so reasonably the rank of each class follows the same pattern
as someone who mostly plays tanks and supports; i am close to quitting the game over the dps stacked teams. its really hard to play tank or support solo 1-4-1 and 1-3-2 comps are killing my desire to play.
The devs need to listen for this For an update
Lol I've always wondered how these pairings would go and yeah 6 healers should be able to keep themselves in the fight but i didn't expect them to do so well.
I managed to place 1st in my team being the only Tank as Captain America we had two healers a solid Dagger and Mantis and 3 decent Dps Moon Knight Spider-Man and Star Lord so you don't need to follow the 2, 2, 2 comp to win.
Sounds like it might be PEBKAC. Would love to see the best players the game has to offer try this. This looks more like a mad jumble based on the gameplay.
But yea, Thor is really the only "Offensive" Tank in the game that does massive damage. Tanks, especially in this game, aren't designed to kill they're designed to create space (fontliners like Dr Strange, Groot, Magneto) and disrupt (dive heroes like Venom, Hulk and Cap)
I feel like 1 tank, 3 dps, 2 support is where it's at
my friends and I do a one tank three damage and two heals ,
My team stays on point while I flank with iron fists. i attack the back line or people that are just spawning back in trying to reach their team
I did notice that what makes most contribution for losing, are just bad duelists. No kills, no damage, no flanking, makes fights impossible to win. Bad healer or tank, will still do something, unless they are completely brainless.
Was not expecting the incredibox outro music
I tried all support with my friends in a few mixed games and won 2/3 games. Certainly not consistent and I don't recommend it but he is right about the 4 or 5 stack support, especially with the team up abilities on some.
i think average player is going to run 1 tank 4 or 3 dps and 1 or 2 heals there will always be one flex player that will switch between dps and heals depending on what is needed