Sometimes I hear of bands that avoid “jamming” together and it usually surprises me. The most surprising was Captain Beefheart insisting that the Magic Band never jam. They learned to execute the songs rather like a classical ensemble: precisely as composed, every performance. Astonishing!
Haha. In one of my old bands we used to say ‘Jam is for toast’ 😂 we were also about execution.. but that was most certainly after already having jammed to figure the song out. Even if whoever the primary songwriter was who brought the song to the band had a very specific vision, there’s still inevitably some figuring out to do when other players get involved. Almost always for the better!
oh man I'm definitely not tryna make people cry over here. lol. In a lot of ways this is just me trying to rationalize my own ideas. I think as humans we want to place labels and rules on things to better understand them, but at the same time in music and art especially it doesn't and shouldn't have any! I was trying to make a video in response to a question I get often (how to spin a loop out into a more cohesive composition) And the whole basis was gonna be about how important it is to jam, but that the jam wasn't the song... and then of course the song I was working on, the jam WAS the song and my whole thought process got thrown for a loop! ah well... the more we know the less we understand. we learn. we grow. we move forward! At least that's my hope!
if there are no rules, then we are free to do as we see fit in the creative space. Which you alluded to. I do not make songs. I do not enjoy that process of arranging, mixing, mastering. I enjoy the process of making noise and loosely tossing it together. it is my observation that there is an expectation that we are to finish and create songs. Case in point. When someone finds out you make music, "where can I go to hear your songs or what you make" Some would say as humans, we need to label things so we can relate. Do we? I choose to live without labels and have fun. I believe you are saying the same thing. If you want to make a song, make a song. If you want to jam, jam. Share whatever the process you wish to share. Rinse and repeat. It's the labeling, judging or gatekeeping of what one should do that gets in the way. My three pennies.
Excellent Points made! I agree completely. But I do think that, especially in the electronic music and gear space, the barrier to entry has never been easier. With the state of gear and even DAWs these days, it's never been easier to very quickly sketch out the bones of an idea. Even for those who have no music theory or musical experience. And that's not a knock! I think that's awesome! What a gift! I think a lot of those people genuinely seek to learn the process of spinning an idea out into a full song and it can be frustrating that getting to the idea is so easy and the rest seems elusive. I certainly don't have all the answers, but for those people, I'm trying to do the opposite of gatekeeping and share my experience so they can get where they want to go. But the truth is, there is no right or wrong way- and certainly no easy way. Thats the beauty and the frustration of being an artist! The key is discovering what it is you are trying to convey and not squeezing yourself into someone else's mold. Cheers!
@@tracyharms3548 very good point. How do we even define what a jam is and how many different interpretations are there out there? I guess for me the loosest interpretation would be ‘unscripted.’ Exploratory play without expectation and limited boundaries. If I were jamming with my band, those limited boundaries might be: time signature, tempo, song key, and the instruments and players on hand. For the sake of this video and electronic music production more broadly, I’m thinking of a stage a little further along. You could certainly say I jamming the whole time I’m writing and trying to find Melodies and parts. But for the sake of this video I’m thinking about the jam as a being a place where I’ve established and or sequenced all the various parts and it’s time to start putting them together in a cohesive way. So I’ll jam to discover what the song thinks it wants to be.
Yeah I think it’s helpful. Hard to say - Alessandro Cortini kind of jams and then publishes. And it’s amazing. Maybe the truth is that the jam is the song of you decide that it is. And more jams could be songs if we took that next step. Editing in writing, in film, and music can often be valuable and refine the end result into something more valuable. But we also take pieces of music that we poured great effort into and toss them into the river of “content” and watch it rush downstream never to be heard again. Another day passes and the flood of content continues. In this environment you are rewarded for quantity over quality, which is a shame. I would prefer to not hear from someone for two years and then have my mind blown with a tight, thoughtful, profound record. Perhaps one day the system will circle back around to rewarding that?
Oh man. Albums are an even deeper and more critical editing process. I don't know a band or producer that dosen't have at least 30 (good!) tracks to every 10 they actually put out. Actually, the reason I started my Song Sketch Playlist was to share some of those 'Demos' that would usually never see the light of day. That's one of the great things about the world we live in now! The ability to get eyes and ears on things - even it's at the expense of people having to separate the wheat from the chaff to find what they seek. I don't have anything against people posting jams in general, but I think anyone who posts a piece of work they've spent some time on is doing so seeking at least some form of positive reinforcement. So I do believe in showcasing your work in the best possible light. There are many genres (and artists) that thrive in a more improvisational 'jam' based approach, but I think one thing I see in the synth/gear/electronic music space is the barrier to entry is so easy now (in a good way! more people being able to more easily express themselves is always a good thing IMHO.) The gear, and even DAWs have progressed to a point where whipping up the bones to something really good can happen really fast - and to the hobbyist, or people with less musical experience it can be tempting to think they've done it! They've cracked the code! Or as they get a little further in their journey, it can be incredibly frustrating to get to the core loop quick and not have know-how or wherewithal to spin that out into a more cohesive composition. I don't know.. this is getting long. lol. These are just topics I'm interested in and interested in discussing with other people. What I do know, is I think a lot of people genuinely want to learn and grow and while I don't have all the answers (or maybe any at all! haha) I'm not interested in gatekeeping. I want to share my experience and inspire others to make awesome stuff! Cheers man!
@@oaklandghosts0510yeah I think you make a lot of great points! I have been there not that long ago in the beginner phase and it so true! Being stuck and not knowing how to finish. I think maybe I’m more insecure than most because it took me a few years to share anything at all. Now I’m finally doing that - but to your point I definitely curate! Trent Reznor actually talked about that at some point. That he makes a lot of crap that no one will ever hear, he isn’t afraid to make that, but he just publishes what he’s actually proud of. So yeah, you make a lot of good points.
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Sometimes I hear of bands that avoid “jamming” together and it usually surprises me. The most surprising was Captain Beefheart insisting that the Magic Band never jam. They learned to execute the songs rather like a classical ensemble: precisely as composed, every performance. Astonishing!
Haha. In one of my old bands we used to say ‘Jam is for toast’ 😂 we were also about execution.. but that was most certainly after already having jammed to figure the song out.
Even if whoever the primary songwriter was who brought the song to the band had a very specific vision, there’s still inevitably some figuring out to do when other players get involved. Almost always for the better!
Thank you man, I'm crying right now
oh man I'm definitely not tryna make people cry over here. lol.
In a lot of ways this is just me trying to rationalize my own ideas. I think as humans we want to place labels and rules on things to better understand them, but at the same time in music and art especially it doesn't and shouldn't have any!
I was trying to make a video in response to a question I get often (how to spin a loop out into a more cohesive composition) And the whole basis was gonna be about how important it is to jam, but that the jam wasn't the song... and then of course the song I was working on, the jam WAS the song and my whole thought process got thrown for a loop!
ah well... the more we know the less we understand. we learn. we grow. we move forward! At least that's my hope!
@@oaklandghosts0510 It's all good. You are an inspiration. Two months ago i got me a Deluge, partly due to you 🙂
if there are no rules, then we are free to do as we see fit in the creative space. Which you alluded to.
I do not make songs. I do not enjoy that process of arranging, mixing, mastering. I enjoy the process of making noise and loosely tossing it together.
it is my observation that there is an expectation that we are to finish and create songs. Case in point. When someone finds out you make music, "where can I go to hear your songs or what you make" Some would say as humans, we need to label things so we can relate.
Do we? I choose to live without labels and have fun. I believe you are saying the same thing. If you want to make a song, make a song. If you want to jam, jam. Share whatever the process you wish to share. Rinse and repeat.
It's the labeling, judging or gatekeeping of what one should do that gets in the way.
My three pennies.
Excellent Points made! I agree completely.
But I do think that, especially in the electronic music and gear space, the barrier to entry has never been easier. With the state of gear and even DAWs these days, it's never been easier to very quickly sketch out the bones of an idea. Even for those who have no music theory or musical experience. And that's not a knock! I think that's awesome! What a gift!
I think a lot of those people genuinely seek to learn the process of spinning an idea out into a full song and it can be frustrating that getting to the idea is so easy and the rest seems elusive. I certainly don't have all the answers, but for those people, I'm trying to do the opposite of gatekeeping and share my experience so they can get where they want to go.
But the truth is, there is no right or wrong way- and certainly no easy way. Thats the beauty and the frustration of being an artist! The key is discovering what it is you are trying to convey and not squeezing yourself into someone else's mold.
Cheers!
I’ve studied music in various roles for over a half century but am not at all sure that I know what “a jam” even is.
@@tracyharms3548 very good point. How do we even define what a jam is and how many different interpretations are there out there?
I guess for me the loosest interpretation would be ‘unscripted.’ Exploratory play without expectation and limited boundaries.
If I were jamming with my band, those limited boundaries might be: time signature, tempo, song key, and the instruments and players on hand.
For the sake of this video and electronic music production more broadly, I’m thinking of a stage a little further along. You could certainly say I jamming the whole time I’m writing and trying to find Melodies and parts. But for the sake of this video I’m thinking about the jam as a being a place where I’ve established and or sequenced all the various parts and it’s time to start putting them together in a cohesive way. So I’ll jam to discover what the song thinks it wants to be.
Yeah I think it’s helpful. Hard to say - Alessandro Cortini kind of jams and then publishes. And it’s amazing. Maybe the truth is that the jam is the song of you decide that it is. And more jams could be songs if we took that next step. Editing in writing, in film, and music can often be valuable and refine the end result into something more valuable. But we also take pieces of music that we poured great effort into and toss them into the river of “content” and watch it rush downstream never to be heard again. Another day passes and the flood of content continues. In this environment you are rewarded for quantity over quality, which is a shame. I would prefer to not hear from someone for two years and then have my mind blown with a tight, thoughtful, profound record. Perhaps one day the system will circle back around to rewarding that?
Oh man. Albums are an even deeper and more critical editing process. I don't know a band or producer that dosen't have at least 30 (good!) tracks to every 10 they actually put out.
Actually, the reason I started my Song Sketch Playlist was to share some of those 'Demos' that would usually never see the light of day. That's one of the great things about the world we live in now! The ability to get eyes and ears on things - even it's at the expense of people having to separate the wheat from the chaff to find what they seek.
I don't have anything against people posting jams in general, but I think anyone who posts a piece of work they've spent some time on is doing so seeking at least some form of positive reinforcement. So I do believe in showcasing your work in the best possible light.
There are many genres (and artists) that thrive in a more improvisational 'jam' based approach, but I think one thing I see in the synth/gear/electronic music space is the barrier to entry is so easy now (in a good way! more people being able to more easily express themselves is always a good thing IMHO.) The gear, and even DAWs have progressed to a point where whipping up the bones to something really good can happen really fast - and to the hobbyist, or people with less musical experience it can be tempting to think they've done it! They've cracked the code! Or as they get a little further in their journey, it can be incredibly frustrating to get to the core loop quick and not have know-how or wherewithal to spin that out into a more cohesive composition.
I don't know.. this is getting long. lol. These are just topics I'm interested in and interested in discussing with other people. What I do know, is I think a lot of people genuinely want to learn and grow and while I don't have all the answers (or maybe any at all! haha) I'm not interested in gatekeeping. I want to share my experience and inspire others to make awesome stuff!
Cheers man!
@@oaklandghosts0510yeah I think you make a lot of great points! I have been there not that long ago in the beginner phase and it so true! Being stuck and not knowing how to finish. I think maybe I’m more insecure than most because it took me a few years to share anything at all. Now I’m finally doing that - but to your point I definitely curate! Trent Reznor actually talked about that at some point. That he makes a lot of crap that no one will ever hear, he isn’t afraid to make that, but he just publishes what he’s actually proud of. So yeah, you make a lot of good points.