I would definitely make it Sister Garaele. She's planted in the town, controlling all players in her own way, nobody suspects her, she uses magic and her 'speaking with the dead' is a sign of necromancy. I like it, do this please Matty P!!!
A few years ago I ran LMoP (me and 4 players) and there was a TPK against Nezznar. For the start of the next session I had them arrive at a Drow prison in the underdark and used the start of Out of the Abyss for their escape back above ground. They ended up amassing an army and marching them down there. They destroyed the prison camp for the end of the campaign. I was so proud of my players for their revenge.
So, I TPKed my kids in Cragmaw Hideout. We ended the session in the middle of death saving throws. While I constantly said "don't split the party", they played solo like superheroes and notified all the guards and baddies. Pretty bad feeling for me and they were "it's not fair" in the end. But a valuable early lesson. Now I'm thinking of bringing them back tied up with a bag on their heads and the goblins trying to interrogate them.
I like the inverse of "she was a doppleganger the whole time" Monteith is smart and more so a good actor. If he can use his shapechanging to appear dead so the party ignores him long enough to escape he can take up the black spider mantle once he is away. This allows you to have her show back up but really its her vengeful partner who now hates the party even more.
That's mostly my backup plan. In my game Monteith and Nezznar are lovers of some kind. If the players end up killing her, he should carry on her legacy
When I had a TPK, I had group of bugbears under the Black Spiders control knock them out and tie them up in spiders cocoons a la the Hobbit movies and stripped them bare. It was fairly late in the campaign and while they managed to escape they didn't get their equipment back which led to a great moment where the bugbear chief came blasting into their repurposed Redbrand hideout with winged boots, golden platemail and +1 greatsword to track them down with an army of spiders.
Venomfang seems like a good replacement villain? My issue is that my players hate Glasstaff but only mistrust the Black Spider so far. This video has gotten me to think of a potential soft retcon: she was the one to advise Glasstaff to have the Redbrands kill Gundren. That would shift the hatred over pretty quickly.
I think a candidate for the Big Bad could be Venomfang, that the party could find on Nezzar’s person a letter written in draconic, about how she’s been a good servant and how she needs to kill this annoying group of adventurers that have been blocking his plans in order to prove herself and enter the dragon’s inner circle. This would let the party know that not only are they way out of their depth, but that they are being actively targeted by a true mastermind far more powerful and competent than the last big bad, that has no qualms with getting rid of them. They could then either level up and try to take him on solo in thundertree, or recruit help from phandalin and possibly the cragmaw tribe to take down the green tyrant.
I feel like the leader of the dragon cult, or the necromancer at Old Owl well are great candidates for replacing the Black Spider. I don't cut Venomfang out when I run this campaign.
For a higher level one, I've never used it, but I have a whole scenario planned out where they literally die and awake on the fugue plane. They go through the motions of being tempted by devils etc. before eventually meeting Kelmevor himself, who tells them the thread of fate has been tampered with and there is an opportunity to change their destiny if they wish. They can either refuse and go to their respective afterlife (and roll a new character) or accept and be resurrected for a second chance.
This is some really solid advice for LMoP and just for a GM in general. Really good stuff. It's amazing how in depth you've gone but I think it's just the right balance for 5e's starting adventure. (also your setup looks great!)
Hi Matthew, great LMoP series! I really liked your take on it and all the changes. These actually made me *like* the adventure now. I'm running LMoP (2 sessions in, mid Cragmaw hideout) and will definitely follow your ideas from now on. The puzzle box will be hidden in the cart, Sildar will tell the PCs about it! Subscribed!
When I ran LMoF with my brother’s friends they were honestly quite creative with solutions. They armed a trap in Grol’s escape route, cleared the redbrands hideout capturing Glasstoff, figured out how to take Nezzar’s necklace and with a very surprising roll luck they killed her, but they just knew that Nezzar was “working” for the black spider not that she was the black spider but since the party killed every important enemy, I decided to improvise a big twist. Sildar was like another member of the party because he saved 2 party members in the redbrands hideout and helped in thundertree. Guess who was at the forge of spells without been invited :]
Oh cool! Well done :) Yeah I can see the players stomping a lot of encounters. I'm a pushover DM, and I usually balance my stuff too easy, so maybe that instinct of mine is leaking through these videos into other peoples' games :O
Ooo! Maybe the green dragon (sorry, I forgot his name) is the true villain! Farfetched, I know, but green dragons are famous for their ability to manipulate others into doing their bidding. Maybe? :)
Hi I'm really enjoying your videos. I'm just found your aite. I love your sense of humor and your accent is reminding me of home. Got to admit as I was finishing the video you made me laugh out loud and made my wife give me a strange look. Just when you casually said "well, if you got this far into the video you are legally obliged to subscribe to the channel." 😂. Love it.
My retcon was having the black spider also be a dhampir, sired by Kas the Destroyer. One of the PCs is also a dhampir sired by Kas, but lost her memory, and so it was a super fun reveal when the party realized the two had the same sort of powers and had a connection. It also means I have a bigger badder villain in the pipeline now that they’ve killed the black spider
I almost had this TPK happen just last week during the session. Knocked down 3 out of the 5 party members. What happened instead is I had one of my players jump across the bridge chasm in Cragmaw Caves... needless to say he didn’t make it across after many warnings from myself and the rest of the party
I like the resurrection idea. That would be a great opportunity to have the players try the gothic lineages from the recent unearthed arcana. Either a dhampir or reborn.
As a player, I think we went to thundertree at level 5, just before going to wave echo cave. Our Druid had to retrieve something important from Reidoth. We were a Ranger Hunter, Fighter Battlemaster, Wizard Enchantment, Moon Druid, Light Cleric. We decimated the dragon only because the DM was a fan of critical failure tables. Our Cleric blasted him with a Fireball in the air, Venomfang rolled a 1 on his save, so he decided the dragon fell prone beside us. Luckily, Our druid had Earthbind prepared. He was immediately trapped in the floor, unable to fly. We surrounded him from the sides. It was over in 2 rounds and I missed all my sharpshooter shots lol. But now that I've got to run this module.... I can see we were EXTREMELY lucky our DM decided that!
So my players were moving very quickly in their first few sessions, this got me nervous about them finishing too fast. So I started dropping in hints about either a partner or boss for the black spider. They've gone a different direction now so I've put it in the back pocket for now. But I was setting up Sildar Hallwinter as the next baddie.
I’m still workshopping it, but I’m planning to run the Thundertree encounter as a nod to Hoard of the Dragon Queen I’m also running Lost Mines as part 1 of a trilogy I’ve dubbed the Trilogy of Dragons, and run the characters from the original meeting with Gundren at level 1 all the way to level 20 to finish off Rise of Tiamat
I've watched your videos on LMOP I am on my second play through with a new group and like your ideas. It's gotten me thinking and last week I went through my players backstories and found there is a theme in them. For me if nezznar would die early I would use the red wizards of thay as the boss to nezznar. I did a wiki search about them and they were moving into the sword coast to locate 4 magic items they needed and was using all the underground rogish villains to scout locations for them. Nezznar would be one of them. There is a theme going in this module with Red. The redbrands and glasstaff. Then the necromancer at old owl well. Just some added ideas and lore I've found with me running this a second time. Thank you for your ideas on running this module.
My party let Klarg walk away alive this week. He immediately set off a trap on them and cackled like Seth Rogan. If my Black Spider dies Klarg and Ripper are gonna be a real fun final boss.
Hi! First of all I wanted to thank you for your videos, they helped me a lot because I am the DM for my Playing Group and we are all fresh to D&D. I would appreciate it, if you could give me some advice on how to handle the situation I got my PCs into. So here it goes: We played the starter set and my PCs are finally in the wave echo cave. I used some of your tips and incorporated them into this dungeon. However in the last Session the group found themselves in room 20 without alerting the Bugbears and one of thr Doppelgangers in room 19. There they found Nundro (who is actually the second Doppelganger). And even though they talked about how nundro could be a traitor they immediately trusted him and decided to take a long rest inside room 20 (after a bad encounter with the flameskull) and the fake Nundro agreed to keep watch. So now I am not quite sure what to do. Should I let them rest but lock them up in this room with their Equipment gone? Or shoul I let the Bugbears and Doppelgangers wake them and fight or try to get information out of the PCs or even force the PCs to help them open the forge of spells? (So far the Blackspidet failed the 3 rolls) My group dont even know of thr existence of doppelgangers but they have been mistrusting before so I was surprised they didnt care now... I dont want to kill them because of that... What do you suggest? Any tips? Thank you for your content!
Worst case scenario, because we are skipping Thundertree ruins, I was thinking of making the Druid from there as Nezzar's brother and the BBEG. Why? Because both, for example, could be trying to stop the mining of the lost mine 'cause is destroying the environment or something like that. If Nezzar doesn't die, I'll try to use that same idea to move him into another story of sorts to continue the campaign after TLMoP Really good video btw
My replacement villain would be Gudrun. Like, he is the parties bro and all. Sure, he already has the key, but his goal would be not just finding it, but to use it for himself. His brothers were in his way, thats why they had to go. They captured him, yes, but he used that oppurtinity to make a better deal. Yes, the issue would be the giving over the torch, but consider some vague feeling that is still not over that persist while the party and gudrun enter the cave and when they are at the forge, reveal the plot and that he needed the party for to fuel the forge after its long slumber and the fight begins. You would need the make the fight completly from scratch, but Gudrun could use some kind of antique golem. Partywipe early is easy, just make it into a prisonbreak adventure start, thats is suggested in the book, its a classic and it helps people engage with each other and learning about their characters. Mid-campaign depends by whom they were wiped and when. For example the Redbrands could sell them into slavery and they breaknout during the auction, maybe with some help from a backstory character while the Black Spider does her thing and gets to the forge. If it happens in the echo wave cave, I would actually be harsher, deprnding on how it happened. Maybe one party member can crawl out of the cave and survives, but gets the revenge flaw or trauma (and if its a faith based class like paladin and cleric, change their oath/domain to fit that dramatic moment.) Naturally the player has to be okay with that, but if at least one character survives they tend to become an interesting anchor for the party.
Hey Matty! I’m loving the series. I subscribe to your Patreon and I’m using some of the things in my campaign and it is going great! However, I was not able to find some things like the black spider stat block. Is that still up there?
My party decided to ignore Nezzar's meeting offer/demand and head for Craigmaw Castle. They long-rested as they entered the forest at sunset and rather than just let them get there the next day, I decided to have Nezzar follow them and try to steal the box. She was noticed and confronted approaching the camp. After a stupid long conversation (my fault) she was rushed by the party and put down in 1 round before she could even act (she was last in line and I completely forgot her Legendary Actions). The cleric brought her back and stabilized her, but she's now bound and gagged and in the Phandalin town hall jail. The only boon I could think was that since she literally did nothing (and hasn't yet done magic in the party's presence), that this could in fact be Montief disguised as her, and when the party goes to investigate the ruins south of town (her meeting spot) they'll find a note in her handwriting (she's been passing notes) to the effect of "Did you really think I would expose myself so needlessly?" Maybe there's two notes, one for Montief and one for the party, since the goal was to keep them away from Cragmaw Castle while she interrogated Gundren. The pitfall is that she would still need the puzzlebox, which our most-careful player has. I'm not sure how to get it without taking away her player agency. Maybe I'm reaching too far with this one.
Oooh yeah that's tough! If you can, I'd go the doppelganger route. If it helps: you don't need her to get the puzzlebox. The only point of the puzzlebox is to introduce the villain to the party.
@@heyitsMattyP thanks! I did end up using the doppelganger and it seemed to fit with the cleric discovering the staff "Nezzar" had did not have any magical properties. The letters spurred the players back to Phandalin and a talk with Montief. Now they've been gone looking for / clearing the castle for a day or so. Does Montief remain a model prisoner or escape.... >:)
Venomfang wants nothing more than to be able to shape shift into a human form to be able to infiltrate the powers that be in Neverwinter. The black spider works for Venomfang. Sent to relight the forge and make the artifact necessary to transmute the dragons form
I’m in the middle of my LMoP campaign with my party. They’ve slaughtered the entire Cragmaw hideout, rescued Sildar, slaughtered MOST of the Redbrands and apprehended Glastaff. My plan is if Nezzie (I’m making TBS a woman too) dies early, she transforms into a Drider and scurries off. The next time they see her, it’ll be in Wave Echo Cave and she’ll have a trap set for them.
My idea if they tpk wasto have their perspective switch to the henchmen. They clean up the dead adventurers and take their stuff, or they are in another dungeon. Then in their own ways they all realize they want to stop nezznar too. Maybe the cragmaw goblins realize she isnt going to help them rebuild and decide to side with the town instead, or have a bugbear redemption arc! I always thought that would be fun
a little vent, sorry. so, i had a "tpk" in cragmaw hideout, but since they already killed klarg, i had yeemik capture them (2 had already failed their death saves tho, so no mercy, rip :( ). after this, we've had 2 deaths, one of which i let them reverse after defeating the redbrands, one was last session (and the player doesn't want the character brought back). five players, and the party balance isn't too bad, they just keep splitting the party, and rarely heal the downed and aaaa i have no idea how to stop it without just telling them "how i think they should play the game", which i obviously don't want to do. also they keep rolling nat 1s on death saves for some cursed reason. last combat, where one died, was at wyvern tor, and i specifically thought to make it easier. orcs didn't all run at them at once, i made the group smaller, and got rid of the ogre. i'm at a loss here. i just hope they get to the end, i still need to throw some xp at them, without killing them, before they enter the mine :^))))
Hmmmm that's tricky! It's easy to balance around a team that works together, hard to balance around a team that works poorly. Here's my advice: if there's the possibility of danger when the party splits, cut focus between the two groups more often. I think this might increase the chance of something happening that rejoins the party before they get too far apart? And you're right to adjust encounters on the fly to be an appropriate challenge. Even if the book says there's 10 globulins in this room, there should be only half if only half the party rocks up (though this is a controversial opinion of mine)
Ugh... Where was this video two days ago? I just had a TPK in my game, and didn't even think about doing an epilogue. Not too late though, I suppose. I can still do a write up of how the bad guy's plan succeeded.
I made a goblin the party mistreated the true villain I built him up with multiple epilogue,rumours and murders of important enemies I plan for him to kill the black spider in front of the party take the forge of spells and have a final climactic showdown so if she dies early I'll just have him make an evil speech tell them to meet him at the forge of spells and then have the climactic boss battle
I never dm'ed but interested in it. Can't you just make it so black spider can't die until you are ready? Or is that just bad ethics. I mean it would be easy for her just to escape most encounters if things get ugly?
Nezznar was sent by a Drow Wizard. So her corpse dissolves into a pile of snow, because she was a Simulacrum. The real Black Spider is still alive. Or she had a clone that takes over.
Who is your ideal replacement villain in the Lost Mine of Phandelver?
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@Tazerfish That's still a good fix! It's a tough situation
I would definitely make it Sister Garaele. She's planted in the town, controlling all players in her own way, nobody suspects her, she uses magic and her 'speaking with the dead' is a sign of necromancy.
I like it, do this please Matty P!!!
A few years ago I ran LMoP (me and 4 players) and there was a TPK against Nezznar. For the start of the next session I had them arrive at a Drow prison in the underdark and used the start of Out of the Abyss for their escape back above ground. They ended up amassing an army and marching them down there. They destroyed the prison camp for the end of the campaign. I was so proud of my players for their revenge.
So, I TPKed my kids in Cragmaw Hideout. We ended the session in the middle of death saving throws. While I constantly said "don't split the party", they played solo like superheroes and notified all the guards and baddies. Pretty bad feeling for me and they were "it's not fair" in the end. But a valuable early lesson. Now I'm thinking of bringing them back tied up with a bag on their heads and the goblins trying to interrogate them.
I like the inverse of "she was a doppleganger the whole time" Monteith is smart and more so a good actor. If he can use his shapechanging to appear dead so the party ignores him long enough to escape he can take up the black spider mantle once he is away. This allows you to have her show back up but really its her vengeful partner who now hates the party even more.
That's mostly my backup plan. In my game Monteith and Nezznar are lovers of some kind. If the players end up killing her, he should carry on her legacy
I really like the time-skip idea.
When I had a TPK, I had group of bugbears under the Black Spiders control knock them out and tie them up in spiders cocoons a la the Hobbit movies and stripped them bare. It was fairly late in the campaign and while they managed to escape they didn't get their equipment back which led to a great moment where the bugbear chief came blasting into their repurposed Redbrand hideout with winged boots, golden platemail and +1 greatsword to track them down with an army of spiders.
Venomfang seems like a good replacement villain? My issue is that my players hate Glasstaff but only mistrust the Black Spider so far. This video has gotten me to think of a potential soft retcon: she was the one to advise Glasstaff to have the Redbrands kill Gundren. That would shift the hatred over pretty quickly.
I think a candidate for the Big Bad could be Venomfang, that the party could find on Nezzar’s person a letter written in draconic, about how she’s been a good servant and how she needs to kill this annoying group of adventurers that have been blocking his plans in order to prove herself and enter the dragon’s inner circle. This would let the party know that not only are they way out of their depth, but that they are being actively targeted by a true mastermind far more powerful and competent than the last big bad, that has no qualms with getting rid of them. They could then either level up and try to take him on solo in thundertree, or recruit help from phandalin and possibly the cragmaw tribe to take down the green tyrant.
I am once again back to rewatch this vid
I feel like the leader of the dragon cult, or the necromancer at Old Owl well are great candidates for replacing the Black Spider. I don't cut Venomfang out when I run this campaign.
For a higher level one, I've never used it, but I have a whole scenario planned out where they literally die and awake on the fugue plane. They go through the motions of being tempted by devils etc. before eventually meeting Kelmevor himself, who tells them the thread of fate has been tampered with and there is an opportunity to change their destiny if they wish. They can either refuse and go to their respective afterlife (and roll a new character) or accept and be resurrected for a second chance.
This is some really solid advice for LMoP and just for a GM in general. Really good stuff. It's amazing how in depth you've gone but I think it's just the right balance for 5e's starting adventure. (also your setup looks great!)
Hi Matthew, great LMoP series! I really liked your take on it and all the changes. These actually made me *like* the adventure now. I'm running LMoP (2 sessions in, mid Cragmaw hideout) and will definitely follow your ideas from now on. The puzzle box will be hidden in the cart, Sildar will tell the PCs about it!
Subscribed!
When I ran LMoF with my brother’s friends they were honestly quite creative with solutions. They armed a trap in Grol’s escape route, cleared the redbrands hideout capturing Glasstoff, figured out how to take Nezzar’s necklace and with a very surprising roll luck they killed her, but they just knew that Nezzar was “working” for the black spider not that she was the black spider but since the party killed every important enemy, I decided to improvise a big twist. Sildar was like another member of the party because he saved 2 party members in the redbrands hideout and helped in thundertree. Guess who was at the forge of spells without been invited :]
Oh cool! Well done :) Yeah I can see the players stomping a lot of encounters. I'm a pushover DM, and I usually balance my stuff too easy, so maybe that instinct of mine is leaking through these videos into other peoples' games :O
Syrinscape has a sad trombone sound for just that very moment!
Ooo! Maybe the green dragon (sorry, I forgot his name) is the true villain! Farfetched, I know, but green dragons are famous for their ability to manipulate others into doing their bidding. Maybe? :)
Hi I'm really enjoying your videos. I'm just found your aite. I love your sense of humor and your accent is reminding me of home. Got to admit as I was finishing the video you made me laugh out loud and made my wife give me a strange look. Just when you casually said "well, if you got this far into the video you are legally obliged to subscribe to the channel." 😂. Love it.
Cheers Jon! Asking people to subscribe always feels sleazy, so might as well be fun about it
My retcon was having the black spider also be a dhampir, sired by Kas the Destroyer. One of the PCs is also a dhampir sired by Kas, but lost her memory, and so it was a super fun reveal when the party realized the two had the same sort of powers and had a connection. It also means I have a bigger badder villain in the pipeline now that they’ve killed the black spider
'tis the season for Vecna stories - the new module might have some ideas for you!
Glad I found your channel by accident search about the Cragmaw castle, keep the good content
I almost had this TPK happen just last week during the session. Knocked down 3 out of the 5 party members. What happened instead is I had one of my players jump across the bridge chasm in Cragmaw Caves... needless to say he didn’t make it across after many warnings from myself and the rest of the party
I like the resurrection idea. That would be a great opportunity to have the players try the gothic lineages from the recent unearthed arcana. Either a dhampir or reborn.
As a player, I think we went to thundertree at level 5, just before going to wave echo cave. Our Druid had to retrieve something important from Reidoth.
We were a Ranger Hunter, Fighter Battlemaster, Wizard Enchantment, Moon Druid, Light Cleric.
We decimated the dragon only because the DM was a fan of critical failure tables. Our Cleric blasted him with a Fireball in the air, Venomfang rolled a 1 on his save, so he decided the dragon fell prone beside us.
Luckily, Our druid had Earthbind prepared. He was immediately trapped in the floor, unable to fly. We surrounded him from the sides. It was over in 2 rounds and I missed all my sharpshooter shots lol.
But now that I've got to run this module.... I can see we were EXTREMELY lucky our DM decided that!
Yeah it's a tricky one!
So my players were moving very quickly in their first few sessions, this got me nervous about them finishing too fast. So I started dropping in hints about either a partner or boss for the black spider. They've gone a different direction now so I've put it in the back pocket for now. But I was setting up Sildar Hallwinter as the next baddie.
I’m still workshopping it, but I’m planning to run the Thundertree encounter as a nod to Hoard of the Dragon Queen
I’m also running Lost Mines as part 1 of a trilogy I’ve dubbed the Trilogy of Dragons, and run the characters from the original meeting with Gundren at level 1 all the way to level 20 to finish off Rise of Tiamat
Oh cool! I still need to read the Tyranny of Dragons books. I played half the first one, but had to drop out because of work. I liked it though!
I've watched your videos on LMOP I am on my second play through with a new group and like your ideas. It's gotten me thinking and last week I went through my players backstories and found there is a theme in them. For me if nezznar would die early I would use the red wizards of thay as the boss to nezznar. I did a wiki search about them and they were moving into the sword coast to locate 4 magic items they needed and was using all the underground rogish villains to scout locations for them. Nezznar would be one of them. There is a theme going in this module with Red. The redbrands and glasstaff. Then the necromancer at old owl well. Just some added ideas and lore I've found with me running this a second time. Thank you for your ideas on running this module.
Well done! That's the kind of analysis that leads to some very cool things :)
@@heyitsMattyP thank you. I do try and only been DMing for 2 years now still learning too.
I can't wait fore this video!!
My party let Klarg walk away alive this week. He immediately set off a trap on them and cackled like Seth Rogan. If my Black Spider dies Klarg and Ripper are gonna be a real fun final boss.
Now I've gotta ask Kev, did you master the Seth Rogan laugh, or did you just say, "And then he laughs like Seth Rogan"?
@@heyitsMattyP master is a strong word 😂 they at the very least knew what I was going for before it merged with my own laugh in the moment
Hi! First of all I wanted to thank you for your videos, they helped me a lot because I am the DM for my Playing Group and we are all fresh to D&D.
I would appreciate it, if you could give me some advice on how to handle the situation I got my PCs into. So here it goes:
We played the starter set and my PCs are finally in the wave echo cave. I used some of your tips and incorporated them into this dungeon. However in the last Session the group found themselves in room 20 without alerting the Bugbears and one of thr Doppelgangers in room 19. There they found Nundro (who is actually the second Doppelganger). And even though they talked about how nundro could be a traitor they immediately trusted him and decided to take a long rest inside room 20 (after a bad encounter with the flameskull) and the fake Nundro agreed to keep watch.
So now I am not quite sure what to do. Should I let them rest but lock them up in this room with their Equipment gone? Or shoul I let the Bugbears and Doppelgangers wake them and fight or try to get information out of the PCs or even force the PCs to help them open the forge of spells? (So far the Blackspidet failed the 3 rolls) My group dont even know of thr existence of doppelgangers but they have been mistrusting before so I was surprised they didnt care now... I dont want to kill them because of that... What do you suggest? Any tips?
Thank you for your content!
Worst case scenario, because we are skipping Thundertree ruins, I was thinking of making the Druid from there as Nezzar's brother and the BBEG. Why? Because both, for example, could be trying to stop the mining of the lost mine 'cause is destroying the environment or something like that. If Nezzar doesn't die, I'll try to use that same idea to move him into another story of sorts to continue the campaign after TLMoP
Really good video btw
My replacement villain would be Gudrun. Like, he is the parties bro and all. Sure, he already has the key, but his goal would be not just finding it, but to use it for himself. His brothers were in his way, thats why they had to go.
They captured him, yes, but he used that oppurtinity to make a better deal.
Yes, the issue would be the giving over the torch, but consider some vague feeling that is still not over that persist while the party and gudrun enter the cave and when they are at the forge, reveal the plot and that he needed the party for to fuel the forge after its long slumber and the fight begins.
You would need the make the fight completly from scratch, but Gudrun could use some kind of antique golem.
Partywipe early is easy, just make it into a prisonbreak adventure start, thats is suggested in the book, its a classic and it helps people engage with each other and learning about their characters.
Mid-campaign depends by whom they were wiped and when. For example the Redbrands could sell them into slavery and they breaknout during the auction, maybe with some help from a backstory character while the Black Spider does her thing and gets to the forge.
If it happens in the echo wave cave, I would actually be harsher, deprnding on how it happened. Maybe one party member can crawl out of the cave and survives, but gets the revenge flaw or trauma (and if its a faith based class like paladin and cleric, change their oath/domain to fit that dramatic moment.) Naturally the player has to be okay with that, but if at least one character survives they tend to become an interesting anchor for the party.
That's just crazy enough to work
Hey Matty! I’m loving the series. I subscribe to your Patreon and I’m using some of the things in my campaign and it is going great! However, I was not able to find some things like the black spider stat block. Is that still up there?
YES it's up there :) Here ya go: www.patreon.com/posts/lost-mines-of-2-40693301
My party decided to ignore Nezzar's meeting offer/demand and head for Craigmaw Castle. They long-rested as they entered the forest at sunset and rather than just let them get there the next day, I decided to have Nezzar follow them and try to steal the box. She was noticed and confronted approaching the camp. After a stupid long conversation (my fault) she was rushed by the party and put down in 1 round before she could even act (she was last in line and I completely forgot her Legendary Actions). The cleric brought her back and stabilized her, but she's now bound and gagged and in the Phandalin town hall jail.
The only boon I could think was that since she literally did nothing (and hasn't yet done magic in the party's presence), that this could in fact be Montief disguised as her, and when the party goes to investigate the ruins south of town (her meeting spot) they'll find a note in her handwriting (she's been passing notes) to the effect of "Did you really think I would expose myself so needlessly?" Maybe there's two notes, one for Montief and one for the party, since the goal was to keep them away from Cragmaw Castle while she interrogated Gundren.
The pitfall is that she would still need the puzzlebox, which our most-careful player has. I'm not sure how to get it without taking away her player agency.
Maybe I'm reaching too far with this one.
Oooh yeah that's tough! If you can, I'd go the doppelganger route. If it helps: you don't need her to get the puzzlebox. The only point of the puzzlebox is to introduce the villain to the party.
@@heyitsMattyP thanks! I did end up using the doppelganger and it seemed to fit with the cleric discovering the staff "Nezzar" had did not have any magical properties. The letters spurred the players back to Phandalin and a talk with Montief. Now they've been gone looking for / clearing the castle for a day or so.
Does Montief remain a model prisoner or escape.... >:)
Venomfang wants nothing more than to be able to shape shift into a human form to be able to infiltrate the powers that be in Neverwinter. The black spider works for Venomfang. Sent to relight the forge and make the artifact necessary to transmute the dragons form
I’m in the middle of my LMoP campaign with my party. They’ve slaughtered the entire Cragmaw hideout, rescued Sildar, slaughtered MOST of the Redbrands and apprehended Glastaff. My plan is if Nezzie (I’m making TBS a woman too) dies early, she transforms into a Drider and scurries off. The next time they see her, it’ll be in Wave Echo Cave and she’ll have a trap set for them.
Great idea :)
My idea if they tpk wasto have their perspective switch to the henchmen. They clean up the dead adventurers and take their stuff, or they are in another dungeon. Then in their own ways they all realize they want to stop nezznar too. Maybe the cragmaw goblins realize she isnt going to help them rebuild and decide to side with the town instead, or have a bugbear redemption arc! I always thought that would be fun
Yeah that's fun! I'd love to do a baddies POV adventure
a little vent, sorry. so, i had a "tpk" in cragmaw hideout, but since they already killed klarg, i had yeemik capture them (2 had already failed their death saves tho, so no mercy, rip :( ). after this, we've had 2 deaths, one of which i let them reverse after defeating the redbrands, one was last session (and the player doesn't want the character brought back). five players, and the party balance isn't too bad, they just keep splitting the party, and rarely heal the downed and aaaa i have no idea how to stop it without just telling them "how i think they should play the game", which i obviously don't want to do. also they keep rolling nat 1s on death saves for some cursed reason. last combat, where one died, was at wyvern tor, and i specifically thought to make it easier. orcs didn't all run at them at once, i made the group smaller, and got rid of the ogre. i'm at a loss here. i just hope they get to the end, i still need to throw some xp at them, without killing them, before they enter the mine :^))))
Hmmmm that's tricky! It's easy to balance around a team that works together, hard to balance around a team that works poorly.
Here's my advice: if there's the possibility of danger when the party splits, cut focus between the two groups more often. I think this might increase the chance of something happening that rejoins the party before they get too far apart?
And you're right to adjust encounters on the fly to be an appropriate challenge. Even if the book says there's 10 globulins in this room, there should be only half if only half the party rocks up (though this is a controversial opinion of mine)
You could always have the Necromancer from Old Owl Well be the hidden sith lord... Or have them reanimate the Black Spider.
In my story the players skipped the Gundren plot so Halia Thornton and the Zhentarim are trying to lure the players and gain control of the mine.
Out of the Abyss! :)
Ugh... Where was this video two days ago? I just had a TPK in my game, and didn't even think about doing an epilogue. Not too late though, I suppose. I can still do a write up of how the bad guy's plan succeeded.
I made a goblin the party mistreated the true villain I built him up with multiple epilogue,rumours and murders of important enemies I plan for him to kill the black spider in front of the party take the forge of spells and have a final climactic showdown so if she dies early I'll just have him make an evil speech tell them to meet him at the forge of spells and then have the climactic boss battle
Venomfang's gotta be the best option for the retcon villain instead of the black spider. Green dragons are known for doing this kind of shit
Classic green dragons, always pulling shit
LMOP content? I’m here
I never dm'ed but interested in it.
Can't you just make it so black spider can't die until you are ready? Or is that just bad ethics. I mean it would be easy for her just to escape most encounters if things get ugly?
It's a bit of both. It's called "fudging HP" and it's something a lot of DMs do, but lots of people reckon its wrong to do. I personally don't mind.
BEHOOVES
I was worried nobody noticed that gag haha
Nezznar was sent by a Drow Wizard. So her corpse dissolves into a pile of snow, because she was a Simulacrum. The real Black Spider is still alive. Or she had a clone that takes over.