How to Diagnose Problems with a Hot Water Heating System | Ask This Old House
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- Опубликовано: 28 янв 2017
- Ask This Old House plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey helps a homeowner figure out why one of her radiators is not working.
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Richard identified that the 1950s era home he visited was piped with a diverter tee setup, where a single, combined supply and return line runs from the boiler.In part of Richard’s explanation on the radiator, he explained the diverter tee in the dual piping to each radiator. The diverter tee slow-stems the flow of water at one end, increasing the back pressure and forcing the water through the first pipe and into the radiator.
Time: varies
Cost: varies
Skill Level: Difficult
Steps:
1. Richard goes over some of the places to check when adequate heat is not being delivered from a forced hot water heating system.
2. In this home, which means the water heats up in the boiler, goes up through the pipes, through the radiators, gives off heat to the room, and falls back down to the boiler to be heated again. That process is helped via an electric circulator pump which can be tested to ensure it is working properly.
3. With any forced hot water system, there must be the right amount of water pressure going into the boiler and to the pipes. To help that, a pressure reducing valve lessens the amount of water pressure from the city to the boiler. The pressure reducing valve can be tested and a pressure gauge on the boiler will also indicate system pressure.
4. An expansion tank to reduces the stress on the system. The top portion is filled with water and the bottom air under pressure. In between the two, is a neoprene diaphragm to act as a shock absorber to the pressure. If that diaphragm fails, it can cause problems with the system.
5. If only one radiator is failing to give off heat, check the air valve to determine if there is any excess air in the system.
6. Check the shut off valve going in to the radiator, which may have been turned off for service or an attempt at zoning.
Richard showed 3/4-inch copper monoflo tees. Those can be found at local home centers or plumbing supply stores.
After diagnosing a hand valve that was inadvertently turned off, Richard used the Flir One infrared camera attachment for a smart phone manufactured by Flir [www.flir.com/] to confirm that heat was reaching all parts of the radiator.
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How to Diagnose Problems with a Hot Water Heating System | Ask This Old House
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I absolutely love Richard's explanations on things. To know and to know how to explain are too different things too.
I've always told my boys & grandsons and anyone else that I may be helping with any problem "mechanical", "always look first for the simple things, first". Good advice gentlemen!
Richard is the plumbing professor, he really loves what he does and it shows.
A plumber that's honest...and takes his shoes off when entering your home..
Definitely a keeper! Great job, Richard!
"My radiator's not hot"
*Richard reads out the entire text of War and Peace.*
"Better check the valve is open."
It's a TV show.
I agree! This man can talk the ears off a snake. Right now I am sitting in a cold house trying to diagnose my problem and I wasted seven minutes listening to this guy babble about interstate highways in the fifties.
" It was the 50s. The double helix was discovered, Eisenhower was President and it was the beginning of the Red Scare. And these homes had a single heating system ! "
Tonight on This Cold House
I just love this program. Saved me so many times over. It’s good to understand How things work so you can do maintenance on your own home yourself.
Richard is so great to listen too, awesome show guys
I appreciated the troubleshooting steps. Thank you for this video.
I love your videos man , they are so practical, spot on and problem solving ! A great shout to you from the plumbers and Gas technicians!
This was an exact replacement for the old one that lasted about 10 years. ruclips.net/user/postUgkx7yWIKcrbA9KMHkGSfcgxW2lsjHT6B8Sh The top of my mitigation tube by my roofline was just a 90 elbow which allowed too much debris to fall down into the fan, eventually ruining it. Without this issue, I bet it would have kept running another 10 years. When I replaced this fan, I added an extra elbow joint so the top tube now it does a 180, which should solve that problem. The radon guys around here wanted to charge me a $300 diagnostic fee, then parts/labor (probably close to $600 total). I installed this all by myself in about an hour for the cost of the fan; it would probably be even easier/faster with two people. FYI the manufacturer's warranty greatly differs depending on whether you install it yourself (1 yr warranty) or have a licensed installer do it (10 yrs).
Like in computers, "have you turned it off and on again ". I liked learning how it worked though. Richard is a great teacher.
Wow! Thank you for the simple explanation. I never knew how the water was forced into one side of the reladiator.
Her husband can build radiator covers but can't check to see if a valve is closed? Lame!
Maybe its a set up.
Blaine Bugaski be nice pls
This guy is awesome. He use Ike’s highways as a temporal analogy. I learn so much from him - he makes me wish i’d been a plumber like my grandpa.
GuvvaduHflgligli
New house they said, meaning he just built those covers.
The valve would literally be the first thing anyone would check.. It's same as, "Is it plugged in?".
mikeye9 Well they recently moved it so I think they thought it was on or didn't know how it worked
Usually those valves were previously opened or closed by an 800lb gorilla with wrench and a 12' cheater bar, and there ain't no way that thing is going to turn....
I'm a 5'3" women and I have no problem turning mine on and off. LOL
luckily you met the height requirement then
did you try turning it off and then on again?
Thank you Richard, very helpful! I bled my system & my heat is working again, easy.
Hours of Googling to understand my system and Rich nails it for me in 7 minutes.
Great explanation of how the radiator heater works
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! I was able to get my daughter's bedroom warm again! The valve was off on her radiator
Richard my hero
Good point. I chased an electrical problem for 30 minutes last week in an old house that has been remodeled and re-wired several times, only to reset a GFCI outlet in the kitchen to restore power in an adjacent room.
Imagine a valve shut, and this guy explains a full heating system to you
Thanks for the clear explanation.
Thanks and this was an amazing informative video.
I was right ! ! Check the valve ! ! Simple things first ! ! Thanks for showing the simple things too ! ! We can all learn from this ! !👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for sharing knoledge
This guy explained everything pretty well
Brings back memories as a kid. We had steam heat in the apartments we resided in--one pipe system. There was always a radiator which was weaker than the rest. No amount of valve turning or draining did much. Being on 3rd floors, we credited it to being far from the boiler. Some of the darn things would leak from the valve if not fully opened. We had metal radiator covers in one place which had water trays laid inside the top. You could fill them with water (Humidifier). Somewhat useless I recall. For 25 years now have had hot water heat. The biggest crisis in 2013 was discovering the pressure gauge was inaccurate, reading nearly 15#s high and the pressure reducing valve was plugged up (Calcified) and not working. So the boiler was low on water and not producing enough heat. After fixing those, all is well. Now I have 2 pressure gauges on it!
I assume you tightened the packing nuts on the leaking valves to stop the leaking.
They do have beautiful floors though.
This show is a national treasure
Thank you for this great video. Greetings from Perú
In real life the HVAC guy would try to upsell the home owner to get a new boiler
I know I would; System 2000 is garbage. Unless you're a specialist and have inventory, good luck getting parts for it.
System 2000 is one of the best units you can buy....controls are more sophisticated but you get used to it like anything else....economy is great on them....
Well said. Sad but often true.
If it still works, why replace it?
First of all an hvac guy wouldnt be trying to sell them a boiler he would be trying to sell them a furnace. Get your facts straight because that would be a completely different trade and equipment.
I love this story.
Reminds me of a plumbing job I was working on several months ago. The boiler wasn't firing and they had no idea why. I went and checked the oil tank, dead empty.
how does one fix a empty oil tank?
LOL, I watched this on Public TV on Saturday. I think that is the 1st thing I would have checked!
i love that their still at it i been watching since I was 10 I'm 25 now still love the show when i was in high school they had a awesome we built real house watching this always make me want to get back in to the field
What if the hydronic tank is bad and the valve and pipes and the meter goes bad does that raise your gas bill?
Mono flow system. First time hearing about that.
Outstanding video
If it was a NY plumber
You would have to put a new boiler
You can say that again! just imagine he she wasn't following him around!!!
Best part about this video is that system 2000! Just got mine done last week in our 1980s colonial with baseboard heating (we got the system 2000 Resolute RT). I'd love to rip the baseboards out and put radiators in like this woman has... Is that something that can easily be done? Love your videos!!!
I'm sure you knew right away. Thanks for the wealth of information though!
Great diag. Very very nice of you
great job!
Hey there I am a huge fan of your show.. I am a diyer..I am currently diagnosing why my relief valve tripped the other day.. I understand more about the expansion tank and how it work.. Ok I have a fairly new system.... LOGANO/Budreus GC 124 II installed 2013 two days before Sandy Hit. The problem I'm having is not sure how to drain my system so that I can replace the expansion tank, I can see all the shut off valves and drain valve..I'm just not confident in executing this proceedure. The expansion tank is 7yrs old the pressure was calibrated about 4yrs ago to 12psi that's what it's rated for. I just need some reassurance and direction going forward. I have two circulation pumps directly under the drain spouts ..This is a two zone 3 zone system but only set up for two.
very helpful
that's a old house but is good to know 👍👍👍 !!!
I wish I could get a job I liked like these guys...They get paid good and look happy doing it.
get paid good ? lol
Damn! Criticize much asshole?
All these guys have paid their dues crawling in attics and crawl spaces.
I don't think they make that much. But they all have their own business. I don't know if Kevin does.
I know Tom and his brother I believe have a general contracting business out in the boston area so they must make some decent money
Nice boiler 👍
Unusual to see a '50s era home with cast iron radiators but nice that they chose those instead of the cheap sheet metal fin tube.
So he explained all that and it was just turned off at the valve lol
I watched this today on tv and got a chuckle out of it.
+iShootBandits Wouldn't been much of a show otherwise.
My thinking is the design of the covers. I understand the aesthetic idea of wanting to make the look different but the efficiency is reduced by covering the top of the radiator. Cutting slots in the top would allow the heat to raise naturally and freely. Probably not a big issue but worth noting. IMO
I thought something was up when Richard was educating that homeowner about how a boiler works and comparing her piping to a a highway....I learned a thing or two but I cannot say the same out the homeowner.
If you have kids, they will burn the crap out of them. Also, have you ever tried dusting those stupid things? Do you have any tips? I have these heaters. I hate them. Nothing fits between or behind them. The covers are MANDATORY. I have 4 in my apartment and only 2 covers. I wish her husband would come and build me 2 more covers. UGH! So nasty and my neighbor downstairs doesn't turn them on 1/2 the time. My heat is supposed to be included in rent and my electric is sky high trying to supplement the fact that neighbor is "too hot". (I live in OH btw.)
@@shellyslioneyes Your downstairs neighbor controls your heat? That might be illegal, actually. Speak with your landlord about it.
WOW!! That was an extremely helpful video! 👍 I know nothing about heating plumbing systems, but after watching this I can now diagnose my problem!😊 Thank you so much for this video🙏❤
That's a great video!
Nice Kinetics boiler system!
0.49 magic !
Shoes back on!
Always check the simple things.
"My light switch is off but there is no light in my room!!!! I think it's time to call a repair man! "
*spends 8 minutes analysing light switch*
"Yep... Looks like it's off... You gotta flick the switch... That should solve the problem".... 👍.
"thanks sir"
"No problem.... That'll be $322"
@@ninjastah "Sir, do you have a permit to turn that light switch on?"
@@walterbrunswick Permits are needed for clap 👏 👏 sensor lights not normal light switches. I have a level 6 in light switch theory! Please respect my credentials. Good day sir
awesome
Lol this is the equivalent of an electrician going to a house, troubleshooting an issue and finding out a breaker was tripped.
Husband: creates masterpiece radiator cover.
Husband: what is a valve?
I trust this guy with my life
4:54 "you with me"?
Me: "No, I lost you on the ramp"
Thank you for the history lesson great job is it worth buying a house with those old radiators.
No NO NO. Get a furnace
Radiators are not obsolete! I never understand people who rip out hydronic systems and change to forced air or rip out cast Iron radiators and put in copper - aluminum fin baseboard. A properly designed hydronic system with a modern boiler such as the one in this video provides great comfort. Radiators provide even lasting warmth and are efficient with modern properly sized boilers. Just stay away from gravity hydronic systems with no circulators and massive boilers / huge water volume.
The only thing a radiator system doesn't do better than a furnace is keep your house cool in summer. For some of us, this is not an issue. For others, it's a deal-breaker.
Unless you find radiators unsightly, if the system is in good condition, hydronic systems are great. But, if natural gas were available, I would want a gas boiler to supply them instead of oil.
Her house is beautiful. She's probably waiting the normal 8-10 weeks for furniture delivery. I ordered a couch and they're like, yea should see it be November. As for the valve, she seems like a nice lady who doesn't have a clue on how things work. But also, it doesn't mean that they didn't purposely do that since he had an elaborate explanation and a copper T just to illustrate it.
check the fuse before disassembling the air conditioning compressor.
My viessman 100-w propane boiler shuts off. I turn the power switch off wait 30 seconds or so. Turn it back on and it may be good for a couple of days before it does it again. It does have an outside temperature monitor. I wondered if it could be that?
That was a easy fix. But what would the MOST LIKELY problem have been if it wasn't the shut off valve? We've been in our house for several years, the warmest radiator in the house has always been in the dining room. It is December in Indiana and we've been running the boiler for over a month with no issues. Today we noticed the dining room was cold and when I checked the radiator it was COLD AS ICE! the radiator before and after that radiator were working fine. I opened the bleed valve I was able to bleed 2 gallons of COLD water out with NO air and good, steady water pressure.
What could my problem be?
you ever figure it out?
Husband out of town and "SHE" needed a plumber👨🏻🔧 😜😜🤣🤣🥰
I had one zone not working. Pulled motor on zone valve. Tested continuity on end switch. Good there. Motor not turning. Pulled wire off in control box. Installed jumper. Powered up. Motor turning.
Pulled thermostat. Connected wires. Tested wire near boiler. Had continuity. Hooked it all back. Still not calling for heat.
Hmmm....
Cut and stripped wires at control box. Hooked up again. WORKING!! Hooked up thermostat again. Still working.
Conclusion. Corroded thermostat wire at the control box.
Awesome video , I have water and gas heating baseboard system though we are getting heat but it looks like our system is using gas to provide heat , I don’t hear water going through baseboard pipe , what could be wrong with it ?
There's no reason to hear water moving through the pipes unless there's some air in the system. Getting good heat? Then don't worry about it.
My electric light won't work. Should I move house? Ffs.
First let's discuss how a hydroelectric dam works.
How to conect 6 ft long cast iron baseboard radiator using the same existing coopers pipe of regular radiator.
Great plumber :D :D Checks everything in the house, from radiator to boiler, but LAST thing whitch he checks if there is air in radiator or closed valve? LOL :D
Man has to make a show for the camera. Can't travel all the way there just to have 10 seconds of him saying "it's switched off, honey dew."
Hi Richard. My house have same monoflow system or called one pipe system. The "T" fittings from the main pipe go up to upper floors. My question is I have two more floor above this Ts fittings and radiators almost on same location to two floors, and how they connect together? Are they in series? Can anyone help please?
I have a steel convector element that's hammering when the steam is going up to the second floor.
I've level it and chance the air valve & still it's hammering.what can I do?
I once paid and electrician to come out and troubleshoot a set of outlets that weren't getting power. Turned out that a hidden GFCI had tripped. So I ended up paying the electrician to reset a GFCI. Can't judge too harshly here.
my cast iron radiators burst in my kitchen and above sleeping room, cause the main branch clogged with sludge, and four cast iron rads didn't work, and froze, and burst some sections in the rads. I was on holiday. Question for Richard - can I disassemble the radiator and take out the damaged sections and then rebuild it again with only good sections? Or is it going to leak? Maybe the frozen water weakend the integrity of cast iron? I don't know, help please. Changing the whole rads are expensive. They are each 20 sections, and only about 2 to 5 sections broke per radiator.
Maybe you could combine the leftover fins from 4 bad ones to make 2 good ones, then get 2 new ones to complete the system. One thing I can say about the cheap fin-tube baseboard radiators we have in the USA is that they never clog and almost never leak; they last forever as long as you don't kick them.
I have the exact opposite problem most people come to this channel. I bought a house 18 months ago, and always had hot water available. So I assumed the water heater in the garage was electric and working. Come to find out it solely uses natural gas and never has been on since I moved in. Kind of embarrassing to find that out now, however since I had hot water I assumed it was working. There's no breaker for an electric heater and I haven't been able to find an inline heater anywhere in the house. So, how am I getting hot water?
Sling blade: Ain’t no gas in it.
Nice one BUT what would have been your next steps in the diagnosis IF the valve had been open?
Simple, bad valve. Replace the valve that she had turned off.
I was thinking it could have been sediment on top of the venturi restricting the flow.
I think I have too many episodes when I just sit here and wait for Richard to lift his hands slowly and say something like "it goes up through here"?(or something like that) :D And now that was replaced by an animation. :)
I have a loud high pitched ringing noise coming from only one of my steam radiators, any ideas on how to fix this?
Sounds like a partially closed valve is causing pressure to build before it reaches that radiator (think: tea kettle) make sure all the valves are entirely opened or entirely closed (if you want the radiator off- no halfsies, it's hard on the system when you bottle neck pressure on a valve)
If that doesn't work make sure the radiator is not perfectly flat- though non-draining condensation usually causes a knocking it could be spray dropletts screaming through as they evaporate (should tilt about 5 degrees towards the exit to drain)
If it's not the easy stuff get a bubble-blowing mixture (even a water-dish soap mix) apply it liberally around all the valves and crevices. See any bubbles or any places where the mixture is drying quickly or being pushed away while it's whistling? You have a leak and the kettle noise is explained. Replace it, call a pro or if time are tough and you have to have a band aid for now: form-a-gasket used in engine repairs (a tube of goop like j b weld) holds out well enough for a couple of seasons but it takes 24 hours to set 48 if you get the good stuff so the radiator has to be off for that time. If you can, place a tiny, form fit, piece of tin foil over the leak and make-a-gasket over the foil so none gets into the radiator itself.
NOTE: if the leak is at the bleeder valve do NOT MAKE A GASKET over it. Call a pro, it has to be replaced.
Still no?
The last cause I know of (but don't know a trick for) is sometimes the inlet/outlet valves are mixed up and you need to pull down the radiator and switch them back.
I have the similar heating system. There is a water dropping sound come out of the wall further most from the heating system, whenever the heat is on.
Could be an issue with plumbing?
That thermo-graphic camera attached to the smart phone, what model is it and from where did you get it?
it's a Flir thermal imaging camera
Thermographic camera. Amazing
Here is my problem with hot hot water heating I have a 1915 two story house with cast iron radiators AND baseboard fin heaters in the kitchen. The kitchen heaters and the boiler a just a few years old. The kitchen base board heatersdo not even get warm.
So I turned off every radiator in the house the copper pipe in the kitchen got so hot it burned my hand. I have then valved off now.
👋 hello,
How to work sterilizing machines please explain
Initially my oil boiler was providing hot water to the house but now that I installed an electric water heater how can I stop the boiler from providing hot water and only use it to just heat the house please
I have a leak at the boiler base; left, front corner with a faucet. What can be causing this leak???
Hi,
I want to remove end cap from a 1 1/2 copper pipe. I have drained all the water from the pipes. No matter how much i tourch the pipe the solder doesn't soften. I am using mac pro. Under the exact condition, i have removed end cap from the second pipe 1 1/4 inch. The solder melted in 5 minutes.
What seems to be the issue here? Do i need a hotter torch or a different technique? Help me if you can. Thank you.
Matthew V old solder joints have lead in them so you have to really heat them up. Just be careful when you wrench on them to pull the cap off. The copper pipe will get soft and if you warp the pipe and cap then you will never get it off
Wow that old system is more advanced than modern turn-off valveless baseboard heaters. No excuse why there isn't an equivalent turn off valve engineered in MODERN baseboard heaters. Sometimes older is better, apparently.
John Panera , cost of install is main reason why, new home builders and buyers don't want to pay for it!
John Panera very true
Modern isnt water heat, thats why. Hasnt been for a long time. Water heat is old as dirt. Baseboard heaters were just a step above and just a longer radiator.
@@SteelCityJW Depends where you are. If you are in a cold area, FHA heat is noisy and uncomfortable; as soon as the fan shuts off (and you realize how oppressive the noise was), you feel the chill. It's also dirty and prone to leaks. All of the stories I've heard involving serious mold problems (lung damage, brain damage, etc.) involve ducted HVAC systems. Though more expensive, hot water heat combined with split ductless heat-pump units are far superior to ducted systems.
I've had FAU (hated it) and hydronic baseboard (pretty good), and am going into my first winter with old, valved radiators. [I live in Frostbite Falls.] So far, so good. If you don't need/want central air conditioning, hot water is the best system.
I live in an very old mansion turned into apartments. I live upstairs in #4 , It was built in 1865, I have no idea how old the water radiators are, but my bedroom radiator valve has a wooden knob on the valve and its not moving cant get it to open or close, been stuck like this for many years, Ive lived here 25 years. Im not the owner I just rent. My bedroom often is not very warm and gets pretty cold in fall and spring because I don't think the radiator is getting enough water, when the maintenance guy bled it there was a lot of air in the radiator before any water came out. Any suggestions o could tell him?
Bleed it again to be sure that air hasn't gotten in there once more. It's common not to be able to move those old valves. They are usually stuck in the open position as evidenced by his ability to bleed them. When the boiler shuts off because the room thermostat has been satisfied, check the temp. of the boiler gauge and the pressure. They should meet the necessary specs. Take a thermometer and measure the temp at your radiator and that of some others on the same floor.
If yours is too low, you may have a case for inadequate water flow from a blocked valve or poor flow from the boiler as Richard showed.
I have the same issue. One radiator that doesn't get heat (in the master bed to boot). No air trapped, no valves that could be off. Only thought is a clog. Any other ideas?
That radiator has no valve? All other radiators on the same floor get hot? When you bleed that radiator you get a GOOD flow of water.
question. i have the same type system. 1 zone. monoflow valve. At some point, previous owners changed from poor mans cast iron radiators to single finned copper baseboard radiators. I have a baseboard radiator that doesnt get completely hot. It only has 1 bleed valve. And Ive bled that often but still only hot at the end bleed valve. Any suggestions?? thanks
It's either blockage or pressure. To test them both you swap two radiators, you move that to another radiators position and move the other one to it. If after swapping the ROOM now has the same problem with the changed radiator, you know it's pipe/pressure. If the problem follows the radiator and not the room, and in the new location that radiator still has the problem you know you've got a blockage in the radiator. This if I had to guess would be some kind of lime etc build up, hard deposits and such. You may be able to clear such a blockage by trying to flush the radiator with CLR (calcium, lime, rust remover) or another such product.
thank you!
kenny play finned tube baseboard rads are desighned to have direct flow thru them,not mono flow like explained in video,you will have to find your intake line coming off the main and the return tieing back into the main and install a isolation valve on the main line between the two ,once installed between the two shut it off,this will force all of the heating water through your finned tube rad and then back into the main and on its way to the rest of the home and back to the boiler
i see, let me go over this, and share with a plumber heater person, thanks
@@michaeldillabough8744 Fin-tube radiators are also used with monoflow systems; mine are plumbed like this, and each one has a bleeder valve. One thing to watch for is whether the radiator is level; if it's not, the bleeder won't work unless it's on the high end.
Hi Richard, if you read this do you have a video that tells me if a radiator can be plug up and how to unclog it and if I drain the system how do I flush it out. Its up on the second floor. 9 room house and sometimes I hear water dripping on the burners. I need your Help.
What do you mean "water dripping on the burners"?
What state is this house in? By the 1950's, some people were using baseboards in new homes and some were still using radiators. I'm asking so I can get an idea of statistics.
That'll be 200 bucks please!
Bahahahahha
Fro real though
300 on weekends. thanks to plumbers but some of them are real rip-offs
I am curious if the circulatory pumps actually help to heat the room rather than gravity operated heating system ?
I assume you mean better and yes they would. The reason is that the greater the temperature differential between the radiator water and the room air, the greater the amount of heat transfer, the faster the room heats etc. By forcing the water to constantly cycle the water in that radiator stays at a constant peak temperature as opposed to dropping. non pumping radiators worked like steam, the colder water sank to the bottom to be replaced GRADUALLy by the hotter water. Just as steam ones worked by cooling from steam temp to water temp and reverting to water to leave. This is the difference between thawing a piece of meat via leaving it to sit in warm water (which then cools as it warms the meat) or leaving it under running water. Both will likely thaw the meat, but by constantly cycling the water over the meat and ensuring it's always fresh boiling hot water, you get faster heat transferrence and quicker thawing.
@@sparkzbarca Good. Thermodynamics 101.
Why wasn't the valve the first thing that was checked?
Why would there be pull on the diverter T if water is going down it from the main highway?
Simple. Google is your friend.
Surely that would be the 1ST thing anyone would check?
here you guys located ? or your main office?