JOIN THE *#1KCLUB* (First 1k comments & likes will be entered into a exclusive prize draw) Q: When did you last upgrade your wedges + what wedges do you use? *If you are NEW to my channel SMASH that subscribe button to stay connected!*
Use pitching wedge jpx 900 that came with my iron set clevland rtx 50 gap mizuno s5 60 lob and looking for sand wedge as I have a 55 jpx 900 until I can afford full titleist fitting but I must admit mizuno and cleveland make great wedges
Another great video. I use the new Sm7s got them about 3 months ago. Have you ever tested a rusty wedge to a new wedge? I would be curious to actually see the numbers and if there is any big difference in them. Maybe a video to come?
The intuition is correct that the more “grab” on the ball at the point of impact, the more it will spin. Many people don't know that a club face with no grooves would actually put more spin on the ball. The smooth face would have more surface area to come in contact with the ball. More surface area means more friction and therefore more ball spin. From a perfectly clean lie with no obstructions between the ball and the club face, a grooveless club will always out spin a club with grooves. But when you're shooting from the rough, grooves make a massive difference. When a player strikes a ball from the rough, there is lots of debris between their club and the ball: soil, sand, grass, and water are the main culprits. Grooves prove their usefulness in these shots; they move away any obstruction from the point of impact. A good analogy for this is a car tire. www.willowvalleygolf.com/blog/grooves-golf-clubs/ #Science
OG, your assumptions and argument sound valid however, Rick literally just tested this with an indoor ball strike monitor in perfect conditions and found it wasn't the case. Perfect conditions, grooveless wedge, half the spin.
I don't see why someone would make this product. Their marketing is "you won't lose spin without grooves" which basically equates to "there's no difference between this wedge and another wedge". Okay, I'll just stick with traditional wedges then. If a company wants to come out with something like they need to prove why it's BETTER and not why it's just different.
With the grooveless he was hitting at a steeper delofted angle and took a large divot resulting in less spin 3:45. With the grooved wedge he picked the ball clean with a shallow more lofted angle and took no divot resulting in more spin 3:17. I didn't see him wipe moisture and debris off the club face before each shot without the camera cutting a way either. I'd call this test invalid.
I'm so glad you did that test. The grooveless irons and wedges have actually been a huge talking point in German golf forums for years, because the guy who makes them actually does advertise them quite heavily online. And the people who believe him and bought them don't want to admit that they are rubbish. So grooves or grooveless is almost a religious issue in certain golf forums. I would have expected the grooveless to perform a bit better off the mat, because there moisture and dirt should not interfere and the clubface can make clean contact with the ball. But the drop in spin was very noticeable there.
They do... in ideal conditions. Look at a formula 1 car tyre. No grooves at all. More rubber touching the track = more grip. The grooves are only there to provide a path for water to escape. It's totally counter intuitive, but smooth tyres provide better grip and are only a problem in wet conditions. Again look at a formula 1 'wet' tyre.
@@onlinetuna formula one tires are run warmed up, way softer than road tires. These clubs would probably produce the same spin, if not more, if foam balls were being tested, but Rick did test them in ideal conditions with golf balls. They did not work.
@@Pedun42 or the clubs themselves were padded with rubber. But that would be impractical (rubber is soft and would break down quickly). Even then grooved rubber prolly would work better. The problem isn't grip. Not in a tradition sense (the goal isn't friction) the goal is to translate the energy of a swing the into more spin. The imperfect grooved surface of a club proves a mechanical way to force a spin and less about friction between surfaces. A better analogy would be someone trying to sell you "toothless gears". Golf ball aren't relying on the grooves to grip like tires. (Keep in mind a golf ball isn't smooth like a ping pong either)
I would say, depending on the price of the groove less wedges, you can use it in the bunker shots to increase the lifespan of your regular clubs since the shot/friction is not impacted by the club face. I would use one for a sand wedge specifically.
Rick I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your videos! I have struggled with hitting my irons fat for long time and I watched your video (stop hitting behind the ball). I have played three rounds since 88, 92, & 90. Before I was averaging high 90's. I working on get through your older videos and the instruction is so easy to understand and put into play on the course/range. Thank you for taking your time to help people enjoy the game a bit more with lower scores!
Back in the mid 1980's I played with a guy that never ever cleaned the grooves on his irons, the grass and dirt had turned into a very hard glaze like film. Every shot he hit with his irons flew higher and farther than the rest of ours did, of course he had no spin, but he was a master of his game and it worked for him.
When the greens were soft the irons shots stopped okay, and in the fall when they were always firm he just play the bounce and roll as good or better than anyone then and still now. This guy is 74 years young now and doesn't hit it all that far anymore, but is still the master of the bounce and roll, and still pars us younger guys to death, he is still the best scrambler I've ever played with.
Not meaning any disrespect, how do you KNOW, "of course he had no spin"? You are making an assumption into a fact with no data to back up your statement. You are also assuming then that a grooveless club will not impart back spin on a golf ball. You happen to be wrong in both cases. The grooves will channel away moisture but they do not produce spin. That is a myth and is not based on any scientific studies. The "U groove" would produce spin because the sharp edges would actually cut into the ball. That is why they were deemed "illegal" by the R&A and USGA.
That was me until very recently, my thinking was that dirt and grass build up is like having a rusty face, but like reality I think it's actually more slippery so I gave a prooer clean up this week
Yo Rick I was the one who asked for a grooveless iron test. Thanks. I noticed that at the first of the video with the short pitch shot you adjusted after one shot with the grooveless wedge and landed it shorter than the grooved wedge and made the last shot. That just proves what I heard a club maker say. Testing with a pro is useless because pros have the talent to adjust their swing to get the best results. Gotta use a robot to get real numbers. Now I feel better about buying new wedges.
I started playing golf around 6 months ago and began watching your videos around the same time. I gotta say rick, your videos really make me enjoy golf more. The sport is still new to me and thanks to great golf content on RUclips, I am now obsessed with golf lol. I’ve been playing once or twice a week for the last couple months and self teaching myself. I shot a 42 on the front of bethpage black today.
I just upgraded my wedges this past week Rick. I had a 52,56, and 60 in Cobra Purs. I just bought a 52, 56, and 60 in the Taylormade Milled grind. I played with them Saturday and loved them.
Hey Rick I have asked it about a month ago but I was wondering if you already made some progress? My question was if you could review affordable launch monitors, such as the ES12, ES14, Flightscope MeVO, SC100 and the SC200. I hope you reply, thanks in regards
K4rN1v00L do not get I repeat do not buy a skytrak. I was lucky enough to test my friends over a two day period out on the range and chipping greens. The skytrak really should be used indoors because it has a terrible time reading a ball hit off the ground. My guess is the blades of grass confuse the machine and is more apparent with wedge shots. When iron shots or drivers are hit off tees it reads it every time. I had shots that showed as fade spin that visibly drew with an 8 iron. Most of the time it seemed close but I had a few driver swings that it read as 300 rpm fades that didn’t look like they were dead straight. With GC2 I would expect to see a 15 yard fade with 300 rpm backspin. Basically the accuracy seems to be pretty close but hitting indoors without seeing ball flight would scare me with a skytrak. The second and bigger flaw was distance error. To give some baseline numbers I have been on trackman at the same range as well as GC2 and both those systems have giving me swing speeds of 100-114 with lower ballspeeds around 160 to my max at 172mph. My carry distance was anywhere from 260 yds to 285yds rolling 280yds to 310yds depending on the shot I was playing and whether or not I was hitting a controlled course swing or going all out. With the Skytrak I averaged 140mph ballspeed with my max swing speed calculated at 98mph carrying the ball 220yds and rolling out to 240yd average with my max being 253yds. I was able to hit the ball multiple times over a flag and watch the ball run past a flag that was 260 yds only to look back on skytrak and see 224 carry 246 total. This distance error was present with both my 8 iron test and 4 iron. Skytrak had my longest 8 iron at 136yds but I was landing the ball around a flag that was 155 yds. Skytrak said my 4 iron was totaling at 180 yds but I was carrying it into a green and watching the ball roll past a flag at 198yds. I used a range finder to verify all the flag distance. According to my Arccos data and what I see on the course I should be getting around 160yds with the 8 iron, 205yds with the 4 iron. In my opinion I think the skytrak is best suited as an indoor gaming console used when friends come over and you do some challenges in between commercials of a sporting event. I’m still looking for a personal launch monitor that is as close to a trackman as possible without the price tag but I feel the skytrak is just not accurate enough for what I’m looking for but I have also read plenty of reviews from people that love skytrak. I personally have found Ernest sports ES14 to be a better device and is $1500 cheaper but be careful to look to see what parameters are measured versus calculated data when choosing device because I suppose it depends on what individuals are looking for. Sorry for the long review I hope it helps.
Rick, awesome video man! I’m massively impressed with the quality of your videos lately. I’ve been a subscriber for a few years now and seeing how much you have progressed is mind blowing! Keep up the good work!
Great vid as always Rick! Haven’t got my wedges yet but by next year I’m looking forward to some Mack daddy’s! Just got my driver, m4 and it works a dream!!
So glad ive seen this! I was experimenting with a grooveless 6 iron which hit the ball absolutely miles(220-250 with around 190-220 carry) The flight was similar to a lofty driver with little spin. I was only using tape on the face but it did the job. After reading up on this i read that the only reason it went further was due to there being less friction with tape on the face and the experts said a grooveless iron would infact produce more spin which i believed but found a little confusing! However after seeing this i will carry on with my experiment and start grinding a face down lol.
Yes Rick, I have a complete set, played with them for 2 years now, only difference I can see is with the wedges, and the slower swing speed shots I get less spin. But full swing shots with good tempo even in the rain they play the same as my Miuras. I would say there might be a little break in period. I do recall seeing the ball go a bit farther on a few shots. I have tested it on a quad and saw spin exactly the same. If not more spin from the groveless. Scratch golfer also.
Just played today with a brand new set of Texan Classic wedges, I had been playing with just my standard iron set PW and a 20 year old SW, the 52 and 56 wedges were amazing and I had so much control, now the 60 I am still getting use too and figuring out how to get my distance and strike right.
It makes sense that a wedge without grooves would spin. What causes a golf ball to spin is the friction between it and the clubface. And because of the rough texture on the "grooveless" wedge, the ball should generate enough friction to spin.
Makes sense as long as there is no water on the grass. It's like sticker tires on a race car. They have way more grip than tires with grooves, provided there is no rain.
The situation is different because the ball changes shape on impact with the surface protruding into the grooves which increases friction, compared to tyre contact on a road surface which does not change shape. But when you drive on a soft surface of mud or shale then grooves in tyres will increase friction to give better grip. @@nigelio3
Brilliant..... I wondered if there was such a club and how it would perform.... now I know not to bother with groveless clubs. I just bought some new Titliest Vokey wedges and make sure to keep them clean cause it does make a big difference. How did hitting the ball feel with the groveless club?
@@jaamok10 I'm concerned that the ferocity with which the like button is depressed is indicative of how much we like the content... What if Rick finds out that we barely grazed it? 😱
Great vid, engrossing pace... Not too fast or slow. Would be interested in comparison of clean, dry, fresh gouged grooves versus a combination of the former. "What if I don't bother cleaning or scraping the dirt out, what are the rpm's, carry and backspin numbers?"
@@petersent123 I did indeed , my first thought was , listening to the strength of the contact with floor, again they were heavy. Not bashing Rick, I just feel he tried to hard to create the spin , instead of trusting his swing. Grooveless clubs are not a new idea.....
@@petersent123 that is understandable, I should of taken more time to make sure what I was saying was clear. No sarcasm was intended. There is a definite undertone in Ricks videos of non traditional clubs not conforming to his psyche. Some players like a feel, some like a look.
I can see that as well. Also i was thinking about it when you said grooveless clubs are not a new idea, I have not researched it but i would assume the first golf clubs ever used were grooveless until some irishman decided to etch into his club face.
i could see using a grooveless wedge if you like to play the bump and run/ pitch shots.. my father would have loved that idea, but who knows if he'd actually use it..
I upgraded my wedges last year before the season started for my school. Ended up dropping my handicap down to a 13 from 20 and now it’s down to an 11. Great video rick.
Good video. Really shows importance of good grooves. About 30 years ago, I used to occasionally build component clubs. I had a grooveless 60* wedge from Dynacraft, a company now called Hireko, and still in business. At that time, there was a claim that it did just as well as grooved wedges. Of course, we didn't have all the testing equipment we have nowadays. I wound up giving it away, but mainly because I just wasn't good with a 60* wedge.
What an absolute waste of time. (The product I mean, NOT the video highlighting the pointless product). Why on earth do they feel this needs to be made. Surely if you are going to design and run a production line on something, it’s because the product is arguably better or least as good as the products already being produced. This is such a waste of time and resources IMO. And surely if it were a viable and worthwhile design, Bob would have cornered it years ago......
Jason Little Agreed. Unless there’s some groundbreaking quality about it that makes it somehow better than a normal wedge, it literally only becomes useful for saying “hey I have a grooveless wedge”
Actually that is a horrible grooveless wedge there is a company that makes them and even Ralph Maltby did a test with a properly made grooveless wedge and it gets just as much soon as a grooved wedge, infact it helps eliminate side spin creating a straighter fligh
Maybe some people don’t want spin on their wedge shots and rather play short and let their chip roll out instead of getting all wrapped up in creating excess spin to aim and stop the ball at a particular impact target on the green 🤷🏻♂️ idk 😐
Currently using 35yr old tour touch 3 berrillium wedge. Not sure of the loft but it shoots the ball soooo high! Will have to try a more modern club me thinks.
Question. Can you sandpaper a grooved wedge to make it a ruffed surface and increase the spin? Is this legal? Would it be an advantage? What about on the groove less wedge? Thanks for taking time to answer!
Just picked up the Mizuno 919 six through gap along with the T7 56. Still using the TM RAC 60. Twenty years old and still in good shape. My issue is short with wedges so the 60 degree looks new.
I just changed my wedges this year... The 60° I just replaced was in my bag for 17 years.. I clean my clubs after each shot and a good cleaning after every round...
Hi Rick, according to the guys at TXG a grooveless wedge should spin more in indoor conditions since there is more surface area to create friction and grab the ball. Were the wedges surfaces different? I.e. a grippier more textured wedge which will have more friction?
Okay obviously the spin imparted by the "grooveless" wedge comes from the rougher finish of the face of the wedge. If you want to compare grooved vs ungrooved wedges then do so with a face that is polish finished to a shine. This would be a fairer comparison.
In the 1960's the university of Edinburgh demonstrated that grooves had no effect on spin using high speed cameras. As a club repairer I also read an article in the repair manual that clubs with no grooves caused no extra effect. The writer had clubs made with no grooves and tested them against grooved clubs.
Spin is one of those things that most people don't have an understanding of how it happens. If you do, the results Rick shows are not a surprise at all. Curiously, the ball does not rotate at all during the contact phase, but rather deforms, and it is the regaining of its shape that causes the spin. The grooves actually allow the ball to maintain that contact longer (we are still talking of tiny fractions of a second) and hence deform more in the desired manner. It's also the reason why softer balls spin more. This also likely explains why the grooveless club sends the ball high, as it only responds to the angle of loft, whereas with the grooves the ball is more affected by the horizontal vector of the strike.
I don't clean my wedges as often as I should, love seeing the comparison videos, keep it up! Do a review on a golf ball called "The Cut", 4 piece urethane version, thanks!
That's what happens when the club doesn't grip the ball and slides under, which is why when you really get a ripper with a wedge catching it clean the ball flight is quite low but the ball rips back, that's the grooves keeping the launch angle down
Interesting test Rick. I guess the results you get may be different than other players due to an individuals swing/strike variations, but I'm not disputing your findings. I do wonder about the other factors in the club design, the head weight, lie angle, shaft and bounce. Agree with you, the grooveless look would be more difficult for me to align for as well.
Hi Rick, Great video :) 2 months ago I bought a Mizuno jpx 900 forged 4 - PW Iron set and added a Mizuno S18 loft 56, planning on adding a loft 52 as a gap, and maybe a 62 or otherwise a 3 wood, not sure on four wedges. Greetings
I play with a pair of Nicklaus Spin Mill Wedges, a 56 and a 60. When I'm frequently playing I take my clubs out every couple weeks and properly clean them with soap, water, and a brush.
Still using Titleist Vokey SM5s in 52, 56 and 60 degrees of loft. I keep them and all my clubs in very good condition, as I tend to get comfortable with clubs and rarely switch them up unless necessary!
I play with the "Pure Spin" Wedges, which I believe were sold on TV originally in the states. They have a diamond coating that even after five years of playing produces lots of spin, but scuffs the ball after one good wedge shot
Excellent video Rick! Love all of your videos! The results were exactly as I expected. What grooved wedge were you using? Also what do you think is the best wedge to buy on a budget? A used wedge in good condition or a cheaper new wedge?
What is the point of a groove less wedge? I’m still playing my Snake Eyes EV wedges. Still have a lot of life on them, and the control is still excellent.
I have these grooveless wedges and also my normal irons are grooveless. I really like them! Been playing them for about 5 years now. I especially like the clean look of them and I never felt the urge of moving back to my old set with grooves. But, to be fair, my game is not top, so maybe I wouldn't get that much spin out of other clubs anyways 😊
JOIN THE *#1KCLUB* (First 1k comments & likes will be entered into a exclusive prize draw)
Q: When did you last upgrade your wedges + what wedges do you use?
*If you are NEW to my channel SMASH that subscribe button to stay connected!*
Rick Shiels Golf this season! Mizuno S18s
I have vokey sm6, had them for about 20 rounds. No plans on changing them yet
Use pitching wedge jpx 900 that came with my iron set clevland rtx 50 gap mizuno s5 60 lob and looking for sand wedge as I have a 55 jpx 900 until I can afford full titleist fitting but I must admit mizuno and cleveland make great wedges
Another great video. I use the new Sm7s got them about 3 months ago. Have you ever tested a rusty wedge to a new wedge? I would be curious to actually see the numbers and if there is any big difference in them. Maybe a video to come?
Never upgraded. Using sm6 50, sm5 56 and Callaway forged 60
I have three grooveless wedges but I didn’t buy them that way. Time for replacements!!! Nice video as always
Same here. 60 degree is smooth as a babies arse at this point....
Everyone’s gotta trusty rusty.
Love it. Lol
Try re sharpening the groves, if that works then fine.
Hahaha! Great comment!!
How can they claim it doesn't lose spin when a simple test shows it loses half the spin....
The intuition is correct that the more “grab” on the ball at the point of impact, the more it will spin. Many people don't know that a club face with no grooves would actually put more spin on the ball. The smooth face would have more surface area to come in contact with the ball. More surface area means more friction and therefore more ball spin. From a perfectly clean lie with no obstructions between the ball and the club face, a grooveless club will always out spin a club with grooves. But when you're shooting from the rough, grooves make a massive difference.
When a player strikes a ball from the rough, there is lots of debris between their club and the ball: soil, sand, grass, and water are the main culprits. Grooves prove their usefulness in these shots; they move away any obstruction from the point of impact. A good analogy for this is a car tire.
www.willowvalleygolf.com/blog/grooves-golf-clubs/
#Science
OG, your assumptions and argument sound valid however, Rick literally just tested this with an indoor ball strike monitor in perfect conditions and found it wasn't the case.
Perfect conditions, grooveless wedge, half the spin.
The grooves add friction. Simple physics bud
OG the groves add surface area to the club face.
@@nardo_rs614 then why did the GC quad, with no debris, show contrary results?
I don't see why someone would make this product. Their marketing is "you won't lose spin without grooves" which basically equates to "there's no difference between this wedge and another wedge". Okay, I'll just stick with traditional wedges then. If a company wants to come out with something like they need to prove why it's BETTER and not why it's just different.
ok. Wipe clean face technology! that should work :)
And then it turns out you do lose spin. A lot of it in fact. So absolutely pointless.
It's just a novelty.
With the grooveless he was hitting at a steeper delofted angle and took a large divot resulting in less spin 3:45. With the grooved wedge he picked the ball clean with a shallow more lofted angle and took no divot resulting in more spin 3:17. I didn't see him wipe moisture and debris off the club face before each shot without the camera cutting a way either. I'd call this test invalid.
Bunker probably cheaper no milling for grooves
Can you do an illegal club round of golf only so long driver this wedge some illegal Orion’s then play a round
Michael Young this would be sick and u could use an anchored putter
Work on the 50 yarders ricky boy
And a lot of hours, better than a few hours. Really bad touch with that distance...
“Atta boy ricky”
@@aha3885 settle down mr I'm ard Bruce Lee.....
And his bunker shots
Im sure Mark Crossfield could fix it all
I have the Thriller album on grooveless vinyl...
Fried Eggs Golf The anti-skate needs to be quite spot on.
Randy, you're my hero.
so that's like a CD?
🤣🤣🤣🤣
that's funny!
I'm so glad you did that test. The grooveless irons and wedges have actually been a huge talking point in German golf forums for years, because the guy who makes them actually does advertise them quite heavily online. And the people who believe him and bought them don't want to admit that they are rubbish. So grooves or grooveless is almost a religious issue in certain golf forums. I would have expected the grooveless to perform a bit better off the mat, because there moisture and dirt should not interfere and the clubface can make clean contact with the ball. But the drop in spin was very noticeable there.
I dont even like golf but i've been binging your videos for like 2 days now lmaooooo
157dodgers me too
157dodgers lol same, idk why. I do like golf somewhat but I’m rill bad at it
Same here. I've hit (and missed) a few balls at the range with my dad once every few years but that's about it.
lol thats the sign of good content!!
same
It's like selling bald tyres and claiming they work the same 🤦♂️
They do... in ideal conditions. Look at a formula 1 car tyre. No grooves at all. More rubber touching the track = more grip.
The grooves are only there to provide a path for water to escape.
It's totally counter intuitive, but smooth tyres provide better grip and are only a problem in wet conditions. Again look at a formula 1 'wet' tyre.
@@onlinetuna formula one tires are run warmed up, way softer than road tires. These clubs would probably produce the same spin, if not more, if foam balls were being tested, but Rick did test them in ideal conditions with golf balls. They did not work.
@@Pedun42 or the clubs themselves were padded with rubber. But that would be impractical (rubber is soft and would break down quickly). Even then grooved rubber prolly would work better.
The problem isn't grip. Not in a tradition sense (the goal isn't friction) the goal is to translate the energy of a swing the into more spin. The imperfect grooved surface of a club proves a mechanical way to force a spin and less about friction between surfaces.
A better analogy would be someone trying to sell you "toothless gears". Golf ball aren't relying on the grooves to grip like tires. (Keep in mind a golf ball isn't smooth like a ping pong either)
@@onlinetuna He said "work the same", the fact slicks give better grip in the dry and are horrid in the wet already makes them not work the same. =)
I would say, depending on the price of the groove less wedges, you can use it in the bunker shots to increase the lifespan of your regular clubs since the shot/friction is not impacted by the club face. I would use one for a sand wedge specifically.
Rick I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your videos! I have struggled with hitting my irons fat for long time and I watched your video (stop hitting behind the ball). I have played three rounds since 88, 92, & 90. Before I was averaging high 90's. I working on get through your older videos and the instruction is so easy to understand and put into play on the course/range. Thank you for taking your time to help people enjoy the game a bit more with lower scores!
Back in the mid 1980's I played with a guy that never ever cleaned the grooves on his irons, the grass and dirt had turned into a very hard glaze like film. Every shot he hit with his irons flew higher and farther than the rest of ours did, of course he had no spin, but he was a master of his game and it worked for him.
Did his shots ever stop on the green or just bounce and roll off?
When the greens were soft the irons shots stopped okay, and in the fall when they were always firm he just play the bounce and roll as good or better than anyone then and still now. This guy is 74 years young now and doesn't hit it all that far anymore, but is still the master of the bounce and roll, and still pars us younger guys to death, he is still the best scrambler I've ever played with.
Not meaning any disrespect, how do you KNOW, "of course he had no spin"? You are making an assumption into a fact with no data to back up your statement. You are also assuming then that a grooveless club will not impart back spin on a golf ball. You happen to be wrong in both cases. The grooves will channel away moisture but they do not produce spin. That is a myth and is not based on any scientific studies. The "U groove" would produce spin because the sharp edges would actually cut into the ball. That is why they were deemed "illegal" by the R&A and USGA.
That was me until very recently, my thinking was that dirt and grass build up is like having a rusty face, but like reality I think it's actually more slippery so I gave a prooer clean up this week
Yo Rick I was the one who asked for a grooveless iron test. Thanks. I noticed that at the first of the video with the short pitch shot you adjusted after one shot with the grooveless wedge and landed it shorter than the grooved wedge and made the last shot. That just proves what I heard a club maker say. Testing with a pro is useless because pros have the talent to adjust their swing to get the best results. Gotta use a robot to get real numbers. Now I feel better about buying new wedges.
Something about you cleaning off the club head with a towel in slow mo is hypnotizing and I want more of it.
I started playing golf around 6 months ago and began watching your videos around the same time. I gotta say rick, your videos really make me enjoy golf more. The sport is still new to me and thanks to great golf content on RUclips, I am now obsessed with golf lol. I’ve been playing once or twice a week for the last couple months and self teaching myself. I shot a 42 on the front of bethpage black today.
I wonder if a rough sandpaper-like surface would create a lot of spin? Something really rough, like a crystaline surface.
Looks like that is what the grooveless had to me. It definitely was a smooth smooth face.
I bet a rough surface and grooves would work the best. Haha.
I used to glue heavy duty sand paper on an old wedge, easy 20-30 ft of spin haha
I just upgraded my wedges this past week Rick. I had a 52,56, and 60 in Cobra Purs. I just bought a 52, 56, and 60 in the Taylormade Milled grind. I played with them Saturday and loved them.
Hey Rick I have asked it about a month ago but I was wondering if you already made some progress?
My question was if you could review affordable launch monitors, such as the ES12, ES14, Flightscope MeVO, SC100 and the SC200. I hope you reply, thanks in regards
I'd say the skytrak would be the best LM for him to review very affordable and supposedly very accurate
Great question,very interested in the results if the reviews are done.
@Paul Goodier $2k very tempting product to buy
Work love to see this
K4rN1v00L do not get I repeat do not buy a skytrak. I was lucky enough to test my friends over a two day period out on the range and chipping greens. The skytrak really should be used indoors because it has a terrible time reading a ball hit off the ground. My guess is the blades of grass confuse the machine and is more apparent with wedge shots. When iron shots or drivers are hit off tees it reads it every time. I had shots that showed as fade spin that visibly drew with an 8 iron. Most of the time it seemed close but I had a few driver swings that it read as 300 rpm fades that didn’t look like they were dead straight. With GC2 I would expect to see a 15 yard fade with 300 rpm backspin. Basically the accuracy seems to be pretty close but hitting indoors without seeing ball flight would scare me with a skytrak. The second and bigger flaw was distance error. To give some baseline numbers I have been on trackman at the same range as well as GC2 and both those systems have giving me swing speeds of 100-114 with lower ballspeeds around 160 to my max at 172mph. My carry distance was anywhere from 260 yds to 285yds rolling 280yds to 310yds depending on the shot I was playing and whether or not I was hitting a controlled course swing or going all out. With the Skytrak I averaged 140mph ballspeed with my max swing speed calculated at 98mph carrying the ball 220yds and rolling out to 240yd average with my max being 253yds. I was able to hit the ball multiple times over a flag and watch the ball run past a flag that was 260 yds only to look back on skytrak and see 224 carry 246 total. This distance error was present with both my 8 iron test and 4 iron. Skytrak had my longest 8 iron at 136yds but I was landing the ball around a flag that was 155 yds. Skytrak said my 4 iron was totaling at 180 yds but I was carrying it into a green and watching the ball roll past a flag at 198yds. I used a range finder to verify all the flag distance. According to my Arccos data and what I see on the course I should be getting around 160yds with the 8 iron, 205yds with the 4 iron. In my opinion I think the skytrak is best suited as an indoor gaming console used when friends come over and you do some challenges in between commercials of a sporting event. I’m still looking for a personal launch monitor that is as close to a trackman as possible without the price tag but I feel the skytrak is just not accurate enough for what I’m looking for but I have also read plenty of reviews from people that love skytrak. I personally have found Ernest sports ES14 to be a better device and is $1500 cheaper but be careful to look to see what parameters are measured versus calculated data when choosing device because I suppose it depends on what individuals are looking for. Sorry for the long review I hope it helps.
Haven't upgraded in a while, I have a 50, 54 and 58 deg set of callaway x tour wedges... old, but I like them!
Rick, awesome video man! I’m massively impressed with the quality of your videos lately. I’ve been a subscriber for a few years now and seeing how much you have progressed is mind blowing! Keep up the good work!
I have the Ping wedge (not sure which) and Ping everything. It is SOOO light and I love it.
“The guys who make this wedge ... have been smoking crack ...”
I bet slick protection feels the same to a ribbed for the female. I'll make a vid.
Mmm Crack
Good watch as always! Seen a few comments about making a video with a full set of illegal/unusual clubs. Definitely would love to see that!
The last time I upgraded my weeds was between 1.5 years and 6 months ago. I use sm6s in 52 and 56. A high toe in 60
This is one of the coolest videos on RUclips. It’s so dope
Great vid as always Rick! Haven’t got my wedges yet but by next year I’m looking forward to some Mack daddy’s! Just got my driver, m4 and it works a dream!!
I absolutely love my MD3 set. I almost bought the 4's when they came out. Enjoy!
So glad ive seen this! I was experimenting with a grooveless 6 iron which hit the ball absolutely miles(220-250 with around 190-220 carry) The flight was similar to a lofty driver with little spin. I was only using tape on the face but it did the job. After reading up on this i read that the only reason it went further was due to there being less friction with tape on the face and the experts said a grooveless iron would infact produce more spin which i believed but found a little confusing! However after seeing this i will carry on with my experiment and start grinding a face down lol.
Really liked the faster pace of this video worked well with the music. Good job Rick, wedge is useless though 😂
So glad you did this test. As an ex custom club builder this is something I always wondered but never tested myself
It looks just like one of my worn out wedges
Great video Rick. I use MD3 wedges. 48, 52, 56, 60. The 60 is hardly ever in my bag. Just can’t seem to hit it clean.
Waited for this for the second it dropped 😮😮
I'm loving all these tests of "gimmicky" clubs lately. Keep them coming!
What if you use a groveless driver will u never slice or hook again 🤯
Cameron Combs yes u will. Slicing and hooking has little to do with the grooves. It’s all your swing.
Legend 29 It’s a joke dumbass
Yes Rick, I have a complete set, played with them for 2 years now, only difference I can see is with the wedges, and the slower swing speed shots I get less spin. But full swing shots with good tempo even in the rain they play the same as my Miuras. I would say there might be a little break in period. I do recall seeing the ball go a bit farther on a few shots. I have tested it on a quad and saw spin exactly the same. If not more spin from the groveless. Scratch golfer also.
Hmmm "What is a groove-less wedge? you ask .. It's a wedge that has no grooves.
Just played today with a brand new set of Texan Classic wedges, I had been playing with just my standard iron set PW and a 20 year old SW, the 52 and 56 wedges were amazing and I had so much control, now the 60 I am still getting use too and figuring out how to get my distance and strike right.
It makes sense that a wedge without grooves would spin. What causes a golf ball to spin is the friction between it and the clubface. And because of the rough texture on the "grooveless" wedge, the ball should generate enough friction to spin.
Makes sense as long as there is no water on the grass. It's like sticker tires on a race car. They have way more grip than tires with grooves, provided there is no rain.
The situation is different because the ball changes shape on impact with the surface protruding into the grooves which increases friction, compared to tyre contact on a road surface which does not change shape. But when you drive on a soft surface of mud or shale then grooves in tyres will increase friction to give better grip. @@nigelio3
Brilliant..... I wondered if there was such a club and how it would perform.... now I know not to bother with groveless clubs.
I just bought some new Titliest Vokey wedges and make sure to keep them clean cause it does make a big difference.
How did hitting the ball feel with the groveless club?
I have a technical question. I only tapped the like button rather than smashing it, does it still count the same?
3DGvisuals Me too. I merely pressed the like button, with little or no discernible vigour.
@@jaamok10 I'm concerned that the ferocity with which the like button is depressed is indicative of how much we like the content... What if Rick finds out that we barely grazed it? 😱
3DGvisuals Indeed. I’m worried that if Rick finds out there’s some people who don’t smash everything, he’s going to get confused.
After watching this reveiw I smashed mine with a grooveless wedge. Smashed the button; broke the club. Two birds, one stone.
How does the face of the groove less wedge feel , is it like sand paper or is it smooth ?
thats neat!
Great vid, engrossing pace... Not too fast or slow. Would be interested in comparison of clean, dry, fresh gouged grooves versus a combination of the former. "What if I don't bother cleaning or scraping the dirt out, what are the rpm's, carry and backspin numbers?"
First 2 fifty yard chips where too clean. 3rd.chip was perfect However all 3 chips with the grooveless were too heavy.
Purposely biased , probably.
did you not watch the launch monitor portion of the video?
@@petersent123 I did indeed , my first thought was , listening to the strength of the contact with floor, again they were heavy.
Not bashing Rick, I just feel he tried to hard to create the spin , instead of trusting his swing.
Grooveless clubs are not a new idea.....
ok i can understand all of this, except the purposely biased, probably part. unless I'm missing some textual sarcasm.
@@petersent123 that is understandable, I should of taken more time to make sure what I was saying was clear.
No sarcasm was intended.
There is a definite undertone in Ricks videos of non traditional clubs not conforming to his psyche.
Some players like a feel, some like a look.
I can see that as well. Also i was thinking about it when you said grooveless clubs are not a new idea, I have not researched it but i would assume the first golf clubs ever used were grooveless until some irishman decided to etch into his club face.
i could see using a grooveless wedge if you like to play the bump and run/ pitch shots..
my father would have loved that idea, but who knows if he'd actually use it..
I agree it would be great for those but you can’t have a club useful for one shot lol.
Do they want 0 spin????
I upgraded my wedges last year before the season started for my school. Ended up dropping my handicap down to a 13 from 20 and now it’s down to an 11.
Great video rick.
What you can really get from this video is you need to really work on your short game
Good video. Really shows importance of good grooves. About 30 years ago, I used to occasionally build component clubs. I had a grooveless 60* wedge from Dynacraft, a company now called Hireko, and still in business. At that time, there was a claim that it did just as well as grooved wedges. Of course, we didn't have all the testing equipment we have nowadays. I wound up giving it away, but mainly because I just wasn't good with a 60* wedge.
What an absolute waste of time. (The product I mean, NOT the video highlighting the pointless product). Why on earth do they feel this needs to be made. Surely if you are going to design and run a production line on something, it’s because the product is arguably better or least as good as the products already being produced. This is such a waste of time and resources IMO. And surely if it were a viable and worthwhile design, Bob would have cornered it years ago......
Jason Little Agreed. Unless there’s some groundbreaking quality about it that makes it somehow better than a normal wedge, it literally only becomes useful for saying “hey I have a grooveless wedge”
unless its cheaper to make but has the same spin
CrispyBoi03 yes. Very good and valid point made.
Actually that is a horrible grooveless wedge there is a company that makes them and even Ralph Maltby did a test with a properly made grooveless wedge and it gets just as much soon as a grooved wedge, infact it helps eliminate side spin creating a straighter fligh
Maybe some people don’t want spin on their wedge shots and rather play short and let their chip roll out instead of getting all wrapped up in creating excess spin to aim and stop the ball at a particular impact target on the green 🤷🏻♂️ idk 😐
Great comparison between the two. I wouldn't think a grooveless club would be very useful to begin with and your test pretty much proves it.
Someone needs to work on their 50 yd accuracy.. ;)
Currently using 35yr old tour touch 3 berrillium wedge. Not sure of the loft but it shoots the ball soooo high! Will have to try a more modern club me thinks.
The only conclusion out of the bunker is..... Your not very good out of the bunker.
Or from 50 yards!!!
you spelled "your" wrong; it is "you're" Or "your are" not very good...
@@slatt33 Excuse me teacher. I did not know we were being corrected on the queen's English.
For once it wasn't me who mispelled something!
Lol when you see it!
It's "you're" you dumb fuck.
Your videos have changed. Much more involved, & much more exciting. Hats off to your editor. Keep it up rick. Always keeping it interesting
So essentially false marketing.
Got fitted for my wedges just under 2yrs ago,vokey sm6 and boy what great wedges. Always look after my clubs because golf is my passion
Hi. Great video. I use a 56 callaway x series jaw wedge. Cleaned after every shot. 80 yards full pelt.
Question. Can you sandpaper a grooved wedge to make it a ruffed surface and increase the spin? Is this legal? Would it be an advantage? What about on the groove less wedge? Thanks for taking time to answer!
Just picked up the Mizuno 919 six through gap along with the T7 56. Still using the TM RAC 60. Twenty years old and still in good shape. My issue is short with wedges so the 60 degree looks new.
You know it is a great day when you see a Rick Shiels video on your feed.
I just changed my wedges this year... The 60° I just replaced was in my bag for 17 years.. I clean my clubs after each shot and a good cleaning after every round...
Is this worth it to help more with spin or ball direction off the head
Does it matter if your wedge has grooves or not when you hit your ball with the blade anyway ?
Hi Rick, according to the guys at TXG a grooveless wedge should spin more in indoor conditions since there is more surface area to create friction and grab the ball. Were the wedges surfaces different? I.e. a grippier more textured wedge which will have more friction?
Got new wedges back in July... 50, 56, 60 Ping 2.0 Stealth. Love them!!
How can he only have 407 k subs. This guy is the reason I watch RUclips. Love you’re vids rick, and do more vids like this one.
I last bought wedges about 3 years ago. Currently use a set of the Bombtech wedges (52, 56, 60)
Okay obviously the spin imparted by the "grooveless" wedge comes from the rougher finish of the face of the wedge. If you want to compare grooved vs ungrooved wedges then do so with a face that is polish finished to a shine. This would be a fairer comparison.
In the 1960's the university of Edinburgh demonstrated that grooves had no effect on spin using high speed cameras. As a club repairer I also read an article in the repair manual that clubs with no grooves caused no extra effect. The writer had clubs made with no grooves and tested them against grooved clubs.
Spin is one of those things that most people don't have an understanding of how it happens. If you do, the results Rick shows are not a surprise at all.
Curiously, the ball does not rotate at all during the contact phase, but rather deforms, and it is the regaining of its shape that causes the spin. The grooves actually allow the ball to maintain that contact longer (we are still talking of tiny fractions of a second) and hence deform more in the desired manner. It's also the reason why softer balls spin more.
This also likely explains why the grooveless club sends the ball high, as it only responds to the angle of loft, whereas with the grooves the ball is more affected by the horizontal vector of the strike.
Will you please review the GX-7 driver? There is not a single review on it. The Golf channel is always advertising about it. Thanks Rick!
Great Video! Also, I noticed that you naturally came in steeper with the grooveless wedge that the wedge with grooves and it still ran out.
Just bought cobra kings 50 and 60 degree, starting to check distances and get use to them
I don't clean my wedges as often as I should, love seeing the comparison videos, keep it up! Do a review on a golf ball called "The Cut", 4 piece urethane version, thanks!
Interesting insight, different results than what I expected, think I’ll stick to my grooved wedges though.
Amazing the grooveless wedge had such a high launch. It was especially evident on the indoor testing where the ball hit the backstop.
That's what happens when the club doesn't grip the ball and slides under, which is why when you really get a ripper with a wedge catching it clean the ball flight is quite low but the ball rips back, that's the grooves keeping the launch angle down
Interesting test Rick. I guess the results you get may be different than other players due to an individuals swing/strike variations, but I'm not disputing your findings. I do wonder about the other factors in the club design, the head weight, lie angle, shaft and bounce. Agree with you, the grooveless look would be more difficult for me to align for as well.
I love these videos rick, I am very interested in weird stuff like this. Keep making them and keep up the success
Hey question what about a chipper putter are they worth it or should I just use a wedge?
Hi Rick, Great video :) 2 months ago I bought a Mizuno jpx 900 forged 4 - PW Iron set and added a Mizuno S18 loft 56, planning on adding a loft 52 as a gap, and maybe a 62 or otherwise a 3 wood, not sure on four wedges. Greetings
I play with a pair of Nicklaus Spin Mill Wedges, a 56 and a 60. When I'm frequently playing I take my clubs out every couple weeks and properly clean them with soap, water, and a brush.
Still using Titleist Vokey SM5s in 52, 56 and 60 degrees of loft. I keep them and all my clubs in very good condition, as I tend to get comfortable with clubs and rarely switch them up unless necessary!
I play with the "Pure Spin" Wedges, which I believe were sold on TV originally in the states. They have a diamond coating that even after five years of playing produces lots of spin, but scuffs the ball after one good wedge shot
Rick, Thanks for being honest on this. A groove-less wedge won't make it in my bag over these winter months.
Was able to get three rtx-4's before they released to the public. Absolutely love them and those grooves!!
I upgraded my wedges last March and I have taylormade milled grind wedges 50, 54, 58
Hi Rick I'm really struggling with bunker shot any tips or tricks you could give
How about a grooveless 4 iron? Do you think that would travel further than a grooved 4 iron. Would be interested to see that test.
Excellent video Rick! Love all of your videos! The results were exactly as I expected. What grooved wedge were you using? Also what do you think is the best wedge to buy on a budget? A used wedge in good condition or a cheaper new wedge?
Most pros are trying to take backspin off their wedge shots from the fairway.. Might be worth considering if it's tour legal
What is the point of a groove less wedge?
I’m still playing my Snake Eyes EV wedges. Still have a lot of life on them, and the control is still excellent.
Awesome vid! Bought my new clubs in August and got PW and SW and got my 60 degree in July😎
I have been thinking about getting a grooveless for a bit glad I never did after seeing this video. Thanks Rick. - From Nebraska
Excited for the Hot and Cold ball testing!
I hit a Mizuno MX-950 LW, and I mostly like it for how solid it feels, even on mishits.
Hey Rick! I noticed I've got rust on the shaft of my wedges. Now, that shouldn't affect the shot, but any tips to clean it off?
I use a callaway md3 56 but am looking at getting a couple of new ones this spring
I have these grooveless wedges and also my normal irons are grooveless. I really like them! Been playing them for about 5 years now. I especially like the clean look of them and I never felt the urge of moving back to my old set with grooves. But, to be fair, my game is not top, so maybe I wouldn't get that much spin out of other clubs anyways 😊