The Dawlish Débâcle

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  • Опубликовано: 26 дек 2024

Комментарии • 124

  • @fenderac3049
    @fenderac3049 Год назад +79

    It's ironic really, apart from the now ongoing resilient works at Dawlish, the old LSWR line via Okehampton and Tavistock could have probably been rebuilt by now, when you think of the billions of money that has gone into building and wasted on the white elephant, HS2. At the time of looking into alternative routes, Network Rail's preferred route is the line via Okehampton. They've rebuilt the line back up to Okehampton on time and under budget, Network Rail own the additional track up to Meldon Viaduct. Apart from building a new viaduct at Meldon, the existing being too weak, the track bed is already in-situ, there are a few obstacles, a number of old stations are now private residences and the line at Tavistock has been built over, but this is not insurmountable. Apart from an alternative route to the South West, this line would provide Rural Devon communities with modern and adequate transport facilities, which disappeared in the late 1960's, it's about time this was put right.

    • @frglee
      @frglee Год назад +7

      The five miles of new trackwork to reconnect Tavistock to the rail network from Bere Alston at least now seems to be in the planning stages, with talk of cash being released after the collapse of the HS2 plans north of Birmingham. Lets hope that 'planning' is not all they do here. The success of the Okehampton line, with over half a million passenger trips in the two years since reopening must also be a huge incentive for further reopenings, including the Okehampton to Tavistock connection.

    • @perrydebell1352
      @perrydebell1352 Год назад

      @@frglee Meldon Viaduct was assessed in 1990 as being too weak to carry trains & the rails were removed. It is a significant obstacle to the re-opening of the line & would need to be replaced before trains could run on the line. Meldon Viaduct is also a scheduled monument.

    • @daveco4645
      @daveco4645 Год назад +2

      😂 David Cameron said "this must never happen again" and "we should look in to a second route"I've paraphrased but 😂😂😂😂now he is secretary of state for the foreign office😮I shudder at what money has been wasted in faffing about with HS2 which could have been spent on the South West....of course the South West is an economic drain so no chance.As for DC 🤦‍♂️

    • @michaelmacdonell4834
      @michaelmacdonell4834 Год назад

      Oh god.

    • @dougmccoy100
      @dougmccoy100 Год назад +11

      @@perrydebell1352 If delisting the existing Meldon Viaduct would enable the line to be reinstated then so be it. Reinstating the line is more important than preserving a bit of old iron!

  • @joginns778
    @joginns778 Год назад +22

    This is why the north Devon route should be reopened, I'm sure the people of tavistock would welcome the line being reopened so they could get to Plymouth or Exeter,

  • @woofla123
    @woofla123 Год назад +8

    I read that Brunel didn’t intend that to be the main route, Tavistock, Okehampton was meant to be.

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад +2

      Brunel was engineer to the South Devon Railway and it was his job to build the line that eventually went to the far west and served the fashionable resort of Torquay.
      As one who remembers riding the route north and west of Dartmoor, I feel it would have been a great shame if another company had not eventually built the second main line to Plymouth.

  • @Belfreyite
    @Belfreyite Год назад +16

    I worked as a surveyor in Civil Engineering and did some freelance work on the North Wales Coast Road between Penmeanmawr and Llanfairfechan. Boulder armor was placed on the beach to break up heavy seas and to lessen erosion. I do not understand why the beach at Dawlish has not been similarly armed.

    • @nickbannister775
      @nickbannister775 Год назад +1

      This was also used at Minehead and Scarborough to protect the coast, however the tide does not go out very far at this point on the Devon coast and one of Dawlish’s tourist spots is the beach of which there isn’t a lot to start with. Good point though and eventually this may happen if it gets the battering it’s had since being completed.

    • @dougmccoy100
      @dougmccoy100 Год назад +5

      I’m convinced that there was a body politic against reinstating the Oakhampton route. The Dawlish route was undoubtedly ‘engineered’ in more ways than one!

    • @mikejones-go8vz
      @mikejones-go8vz Год назад +2

      Why is this called a débâcle , it was a success 🤔

    • @ChangesOneTim
      @ChangesOneTim Год назад

      @@dougmccoy100
      IIRC NR's quote for the Okehampton route full reinstatement was £950M (say £1.25BN today). To make a cost/benefit case the route would have to generate sufficient year-round traffic in its own right. As a diversionary route avoiding Dawlish for trains to/from upcountry:
      (a) the Dawlish route would have to be 'unavailable' (either planned or emergency) fairly frequently through each year,
      (b) All trains have to change ends at Ex St D, and Cornwall trains also at Plymouth, each reversal adding (guesstimate) 12min to the standard station call times,
      (c) The Okehampton route between the two cities is six miles longer than the 52 miles via Dawlish. The Oke route would need to be specced for highest possible linespeeds so that the effects of (b) are minimised.
      It seems from reopening proposals elsewhere, West Devon will only get the whole line back in exchange for thousands of extra new houses and business parks. These can only happen if 'the price is right' for developers to contribute and if there are enough good jobs for all the new residents to fill.

    • @ianmcclavin
      @ianmcclavin Год назад

      ​@@mikejones-go8vzThey successfully reopened the route yes, but it remains an ongoing potential problem for the future until they get an alternative route sorted out.

  • @a1white
    @a1white Год назад +17

    really, when you look at the damage, it's pretty impressive that they repaired it within 8 weeks.

  • @MasterMoyle
    @MasterMoyle Год назад +9

    The avoiding line needs rebuilding as should never have closed. That way we avoid this sort of thing again in the future.

  • @johnjephcote7636
    @johnjephcote7636 Год назад +12

    Had they only mothballed the South Western line as a strategic reserve...

    • @frglee
      @frglee Год назад +9

      Indeed. In Germany it was decided to leave trackwork of closed lines for many years in place in case reopening was needed. Here in the UK there was always an ungodly haste to rip the trackwork out, often starting within weeks of a line closure.

  • @elisabethj.v.beardsell9853
    @elisabethj.v.beardsell9853 Год назад +7

    Since then, the line is much improved.and safer for all😊

  • @jamesjenner8159
    @jamesjenner8159 Год назад +9

    Nothing changes, Dawlish has always been battered in winter storms and the railway has always suffered even in the days of Westward Television.

  • @minimaxi802
    @minimaxi802 Год назад +3

    This is the main railway line down to Cornwall and likely to happen again at the sea in Dawlish in the future.

  • @nickbannister775
    @nickbannister775 Год назад +8

    Sadly the new wall will hold but, the waves still come over plus this is just a small section of 4 to 5 miles of crumbling coastline. The Oakhampton route must now be an option.

    • @joginns778
      @joginns778 Год назад +2

      Route should never have been closed,

    • @TheMateriaalkunde
      @TheMateriaalkunde Год назад

      Should not be that hard to do... Much of the track bead is still there.

    • @joginns778
      @joginns778 Год назад

      @@TheMateriaalkunde I understand there's talk of the line from Plymouth to tavistock being put back, but I can't understand why oakhampton to tavistock is being left out it's said that the viaduct won't stand trains over it, so why not build a new one next to it, a survey was done on the trackbed and there's not really a lot needing done,

    • @SBRailways1992
      @SBRailways1992 Год назад

      @@TheMateriaalkunde Alot of the track bed has been built on? So it will be harder to restore it.

    • @dougmccoy100
      @dougmccoy100 Год назад

      @@SBRailways1992 The only reason that so many disused lines can’t be easily or cheaply restored is because the track bed wasn’t protected in case of future need. One has to assume that the politicians of the time were so beguiled by the Road transport lobby that they conveniently ignored such ideas?

  • @peteredwards7760
    @peteredwards7760 Год назад +2

    When was the British weather ever under control ?

  • @Tuffydipstick
    @Tuffydipstick Год назад +1

    My first grand son was born in February 2014 in Cornwall. I traveled from Somerset to Cornwall by car and I came back by train and coach. Got the coach from Plymouth to Exeter. It was fine.

  • @railtrolley
    @railtrolley Год назад +2

    28:10 Track ballast being glued together. They get this idea from ballasting model railway track?

  • @rayjennings3637
    @rayjennings3637 Год назад +5

    Billions spent on HS2 from Birmingham to London, a journey route which already has an existing service, yet nothing for a fully operable alternative route down to the far reaches of Cornwall. Absolutely disgusting!

  • @xrisku
    @xrisku Год назад +3

    Absolutely ludicrous location for a rail line.

  • @Johnny2-r1l
    @Johnny2-r1l Год назад +3

    This is why don’t build your tracks on weak ground on a costal shoreline without removing the weak materials and switching it with much stronger materials, as this video shows what happens when you over estimate natural.

  • @michaelgriffin1458
    @michaelgriffin1458 Год назад +6

    I normally watch any content about British railways with glee but honestly, this is the most overhyped load of rubbish. Quite true to say Britain’s weather is out of control. It always has been. We have never controlled the weather.

    • @dougmccoy100
      @dougmccoy100 Год назад +2

      The costs of trying to maintain the Dawlish route defy logic. Why do battle with rising sea levels and intensifying winter storms when it makes more sense to reinstate the inland route?

    • @charlesburgoyne-probyn6044
      @charlesburgoyne-probyn6044 11 месяцев назад

      ​@@dougmccoy100institutional thinking and throwing good money after bad

    • @marionbloom1218
      @marionbloom1218 10 месяцев назад +1

      Because the inland route would not serve all the towns along the coast! Duh!! It's not just about getting to Exeter! @@dougmccoy100

  • @ianmcclavin
    @ianmcclavin Год назад +1

    No mention has been made of the closed route via Heathfield from Exeter to Newton Abbot. Reopening this would provide an alternative to the sea wall route via Dawlish. It would be nice to see the Okehampton - Tavistock route reopened too, but reinstating the Heathfield line would alleviate the problem.

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад +1

      The inland diversionary route is covered in detail here: www.teignrail.co.uk/political-campaigning.php#dawlishdebacle

  • @plunder1956
    @plunder1956 Год назад +2

    Looking at the critical failure even from the perspective of a destroyed structural sea wall, this was a very nasty problem. Add to that both the requirements of a very busy rail plus road link built on top of it, this would have hit the structural team hard.
    Even the fate of the temporary solution (with shipping Containers filled with hard core) you can see how much damage the waves can cause. In retrospect, repositioning the whole line, may have been the only long term solution, but that would have involved a whole new line design and profound problems for people living on this coastline.
    I did work in heavy civil engineering decades ago. But never on transport links or coastal sea defences, they require amazing skill and the work can be very high pressure, because of site access and vulnerability. This project had ALL the possible major problems, plus fantastic time pressure and no way to plan ahead in fixing it. What a project.

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад

      In the life of the wall, the more years that passed without a major breach, the more complacency developed. Before 2014, Network Rail was saying that no problems were foreseen. Now it is arguably spending too much on the weakest points of a generally vulnerable route.
      The video was put together as a record of the event and of the triumphal resumption of service.
      Questions, criticism and analysis will be published separately on my web pages.

    • @ChangesOneTim
      @ChangesOneTim Год назад

      @@exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      Quite rightly, the immediate response to organise and then complete the sea wall's reinstatement plus the highest-priority cliff face works in such a short time was a triumph worth. Equally relevant is all the follow-up work in the nearly nine years since then to strengthen the sea wall and stabilise the cliff faces further. How long until this more robust railway fails the "once in 100 years storm" test no one knows, but at least the effort and budget put into it killed off any past "complacency"!

  • @thomasgray4188
    @thomasgray4188 Год назад +2

    there should be two new rotes, a tunnel for fast trains to Newton abbot, and a northern route for stopping trains. Then, you could build a new double track to plymouth to separate slow and fast trains. more better trains & more resilience.

  • @jasperhorace7147
    @jasperhorace7147 Год назад +4

    Crazy place to put a railway line in the first place‼

    • @ianmcclavin
      @ianmcclavin Год назад +4

      Crazier still to leave it as the only surviving one, and close two alternatives!

  • @bazra19
    @bazra19 Год назад +1

    Why were the men not roped together, when they went there at high tide?

  • @devon896
    @devon896 3 месяца назад +1

    The whole reason for the collapse at Dawlish and rock fall at Teignmouth was down to years of neglect by Network Rail and British Railways.

  • @stephenfarthing3819
    @stephenfarthing3819 Год назад +2

    My goodness! This is quite the problem! I had known it was complicated.

  • @davidbassett4577
    @davidbassett4577 11 месяцев назад +2

    I live in Buckinghamshire and have witnessed what has & is still being wasted on HS2 … redirect some of this money to reinstate the North Route via Tavistock. I visit Dawlish Warren & Dawlish on a fairly regular basis .. and the alternative route is still needed .. even here in Bucks .. re-instating the link between High Wycombe and Maidenhead (by re-building the the line to Bourne End) would be a far better use of money .. especially with The Elizabeth Line now running through Maidenhead .. this link was actually severed post Beeching!

  • @oldman1734
    @oldman1734 Год назад +1

    I’m a bit confused. People commenting seem not to know the problem was solved some time ago. A new sea wall did the trick.

  • @Great_King_Rat
    @Great_King_Rat Год назад +3

    "Bury the line underneath the repair" -- that'll bollox up some Archaeologist in 200 years' time.

    • @ChangesOneTim
      @ChangesOneTim Год назад +2

      The manufacturers' names embossed on the rails and sleepers will be a giveaway🤣

    • @geoffreycodnett6570
      @geoffreycodnett6570 Год назад

      Archaelogists are unlikely to have access in 200yrs. If they did railways are well recorded. 2000 yrs might present a problem.

  • @brockside1575
    @brockside1575 Год назад +1

    Great video and great work but, who wrote the narrative… they are using special remote controlled camera… a drone. Came up with an ingenious way to overcome the problem….they put the locos on low loader…

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад

      The "narrative" is word for word, as far as I could tell, what is being said.
      I agree that putting locos on lorries is not new or ingenious.

  • @54blewis
    @54blewis Год назад +3

    What I’m trying to understand why nobody thought that building a railroad practically on the coastline was going to be problematic….not that I’m anyway an expert on engineering far from it,but one would think that there had to be somebody who could recognize the inherent problems coastal railroads would face particularly along a beachfront…I’ll admit I could be terribly wrong and I’m not trying to offend anyone but I’m simply staggered by what looks like a lack of foresight for what is (at least to an ignorant peasant as myself )an obvious engineering problem from the start…..(scratching my head)

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад +7

      Brunel, the world famous civil engineer, looked at the range of hills that stands between Exeter and Newton Abbot and decided that a level estuarine and coastal route, serving more settlements, was preferable.
      He judged that it would be little troubled by the sea, as the prevailing wind was south-westerly and strong south-easterlies were rare.
      He also judged that sand cover would protect the wall and keep wave action to a minimum.
      On the whole, the line has been quite reliable. Severance wasn't such a problem when there were two diversionary routes available.
      These days, the trains are the weakness, being susceptible even to sea spray.

    • @54blewis
      @54blewis Год назад +1

      @@exeterteignvalleyrailway6713 thanks,it makes sense now, I guess it’s just a matter of changing weather patterns,wear and tear of the infrastructure and erosion….again thank you for the insight…

    • @hypergolic8468
      @hypergolic8468 Год назад +1

      @@exeterteignvalleyrailway6713 We should also point out that he built this section as the atmospheric railway too, and that keeping the line as level as possible was key to the route. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Devon_Railway_engine_houses

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад +2

      Actually, the atmospheric system was chosen because, not relying on adhesion, it was far more suitable than locomotive power for the severe gradients that lay beyond Newton Abbot.

    • @hypergolic8468
      @hypergolic8468 Год назад

      @@exeterteignvalleyrailway6713 Fascinating, I'd always assumed it was the other way! Well, as they say, you learn something new every day.
      You may correct me on this, but am I correct in thinking that before the World War II the Great Western had bought land to move part of the route away from the sea?
      To be honest, as many have stated, I don't understand why, for the money the Dartmoor line was reopened.

  • @Elliottblancher
    @Elliottblancher Год назад +1

    What happened to that women whose house was hit by the weather?

  • @robnewman6101
    @robnewman6101 Год назад

    How Tragic.

  • @bobtudbury8505
    @bobtudbury8505 Год назад +2

    the weather is the same now as when it was built. errosion over time is the problem, it needs something earlier to kill the power of the waves

    • @a1white
      @a1white Год назад

      Not true. There has always been storms but in recent years they have been getting more severe and more frequent

  • @tripwire3992
    @tripwire3992 Год назад

    Why didnt they move the line inland, surely its cheaper in the long run than repairing it every single year

  • @thomasawl
    @thomasawl Год назад +2

    W-w-
    WAS THIS RECORDED ON VHS IN 2014????????

    • @a1white
      @a1white Год назад

      adjust the tracking! 😅

  • @832onslaught
    @832onslaught Год назад

    Who narrated this programme please?

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад

      The narrator of the clips taken from Channel Five's documentary, "The Railway," is Paul Copley.

    • @wolfdog1492
      @wolfdog1492 Год назад +1

      If you think you recognise the voice and watched Downton Abbey, its the chap who played Mr Mason. I recognised the voice and couldn't initially place it.

  • @torccchaser6712
    @torccchaser6712 Год назад +2

    God Bless you Dave for what you do for ALL of us Congrats to ALL

  • @northof-62
    @northof-62 Год назад +4

    This looks like peanuts compared to what the Dutch are doing and have done since the North Sea Flood in '53. I guess it'll be an ongoing battle.

    • @simontay4851
      @simontay4851 Год назад +1

      Yeah, the Dutch are the best in the world when it comes to building sea defences.

    • @ChangesOneTim
      @ChangesOneTim Год назад +2

      This video only covers the immediate works done to reopen the line. A helluva lot more has been done since to both wall and cliffs. The wall includes a concave profile to minimise overtopping and is proving effective in recent storms.

  • @TerryTheNewsGirl
    @TerryTheNewsGirl Год назад +1

    Where did you find this? And completely out of date now. The new wall put a stop to that.

  • @Househead1200
    @Househead1200 Год назад +2

    There was NEVER this fuss when BR had control.

    • @ChangesOneTim
      @ChangesOneTim Год назад +1

      In its last years 'business-sectorised' BR didn't have the money to prioritise/ fuss about Dawlish. BR's successor R*******k was too institutionally incompetent to understand let alone prioritise/ fuss about Dawlish despite having more renewals money to spend.

    • @devon896
      @devon896 3 месяца назад

      @@ChangesOneTim and the same with Network Rail spent years doing the bare minimum, repairing gaps in the sea wall every time it was breached. Then suddenly "oh we've lost the railway line"

  • @gainsbourg66
    @gainsbourg66 Год назад +1

    Since this was made Dawlish has been ruined by ugly, new sea wall that has about as much artistic merit as a sewage works.

  • @annpeerkat2020
    @annpeerkat2020 Год назад

    11:00 Has me wondering about the organisations of england/ britain. WIth the railway crew having an urgently pressing mission to protect/ rebuild the track..... they appear to be protecting the contents of a private house instead. I agree that assisting folks is a noble venture, but aren't there volunteer emergency services in the UK to assist those in need as a result of disasters?
    Tally ho.

    • @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713
      @exeterteignvalleyrailway6713  Год назад +1

      In fairness, I think all they were doing was rescuing some things that had fallen into the void, which the next tide would take away.

  • @russrh
    @russrh Год назад +1

    'you dont think it could happen to you' what, every day when you look out your from window at the ocean metres away? 😂

  • @toddhunter3137
    @toddhunter3137 Год назад +1

    The steel rails are still there... 5 mph - steady as she goes - it'll be fine, ladies and gentlemen hold on to your coffee cups!!!

  • @keithbuckley3220
    @keithbuckley3220 Год назад +2

    Problem is that the cutting edge technology is slower than the original NAVVIES with their picks and shovels!

    • @simontay4851
      @simontay4851 Год назад

      Yes, they were proper hard working real men. I watched a documentary about the canal navies and it said they consumed around 20,000 calories a day. No HS BS, no bright orange vests, no bureaucratic crap. They just got the job done.

  • @sithlordofoz
    @sithlordofoz Год назад

    20:45 - no it wasn't. But try telling the GWR that...

  • @diymicha2
    @diymicha2 Год назад +3

    Face the fact: You will not win against the sea. Just abandon the town bit by bit, and move further inland. This will be an endless concrete and money grave.

  • @mikejones-go8vz
    @mikejones-go8vz Год назад

    2014? Video looks like 1986 😳

  • @Househead1200
    @Househead1200 Год назад

    This is absolute guff.

  • @elisabethj.v.beardsell9853
    @elisabethj.v.beardsell9853 Год назад +2

    Businesses won’t win against nature.😊

  • @charlesburgoyne-probyn6044
    @charlesburgoyne-probyn6044 11 месяцев назад +1

    Institutional thinking and throwing good money after bad and the conciet of BR selling off the land GWR bought to build an inland route

  • @a1white
    @a1white Год назад +2

    Absolute lies from Cameron 43:33

  • @harrydebastardeharris987
    @harrydebastardeharris987 11 месяцев назад +1

    There has been some seriously short sighted cuts to the UK Rail Network and we all should know why…..Beeching, Tory Cuts and Privatisation.

  • @bazra19
    @bazra19 Год назад

    Rebuild the line on stilts and let the sea run under the line.

  • @TrevorHarris-xh9se
    @TrevorHarris-xh9se Год назад

    🌬🌀🌦🌩🌪⚡DAWILSH GWR TORQUAY PLYMOUTH TOTNES

  • @TrevorHarris-xh9se
    @TrevorHarris-xh9se Год назад

    TREVOR HARRIS GWR TORQUAY PLYMOUTH TOTNES

  • @petergeorgedirector4
    @petergeorgedirector4 Год назад

    Constantly repairing the sea wall is a nice, guaranteed nest-egg. Who would want to replace that with a logical solution that would provide a permanent solution?😉

  • @Rosco-P.Coldchain
    @Rosco-P.Coldchain 11 месяцев назад

    Debacle 😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • @xr6lad
    @xr6lad 4 месяца назад

    Lol @ weather out of control.

  • @Rosco-P.Coldchain
    @Rosco-P.Coldchain 11 месяцев назад

    All the North are shouting welcome to our world with services 😂

  • @philltaylor8442
    @philltaylor8442 Год назад

    Hippercrits! Thay worrey about the Economiey thay shut dowen the UK for over two years not giving a dame about the economiey or about how people got around? Send for the Chinees thayed have built with in HRs? We BRITISH are still living in the Stone Age has far as building go.s Come to think of it there isant enneything good about my country 😢😢😢?.

    • @ChangesOneTim
      @ChangesOneTim Год назад +2

      Sure the Chinese do things their way and get things done sooner...when in China, complying with what few employment protection and construction safety laws they have. Presumably as a Brit you'd rather have "got Dawlish done" in a week on Chinese wage rates and on your Chinese employer's terms and conditions...and ending up more likely to seriously injured or worse.

  • @JaveyEL6369
    @JaveyEL6369 11 месяцев назад +1

    Cameron, the human jellyfish, who laid down his country for his life.