Apostolic Succession: Common Objections Refuted w/ Perry Robinson
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- #Apologetics #Christianity #orthodoxy #church
On this episode of The Transfigured Life, we continue discussing Apostolic Succession with Perry Robinson. We focus on common objections made by notable protestant scholars and apologists like Dr Gavin Ortlund, and show there are no real sound objections to the doctrine of Apostolic Succession.
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0:00 - Intro
0:45 - Objection #1
12:33 - Objection #2
21:05 - Objections #3
25:25 - Response to Jerome's Text
34:55 - The weakness of "denominations"
55:45 - Response to those who take issue with Orthodox exclusivity
1:08:25 - Response to Dr.Gavin's on Apostolic Succession
1:30:10 - Closing Thoughts
Absolute amazing teaching, and cannot wait for his rebuttals to Gavin 0rtlund. Glory to Jesus Christ!
Luther you've been getting some great guests on, loving it
Thank you! ☦️🔥🔥
Perry’s work is fantastic. Very clear and thorough. Thanks for having him on!
Our pleasure! ☦️
Perry is my favorite, I wish there wasn’t such a limited supply of his content on RUclips.
This is Part 2 of the Orthodox case for Apostolic Succession. Part 1 is linked below!
ruclips.net/video/gIn-YdU1XCc/видео.htmlsi=3p2dcKUh3EgiA72I
What's the name of your normal intro music? I know it from somewhere and can't get it out of my head.
@@astudent5638 Honestly I'm not sure. An Orthodox creative mixed together the audio for us. I can ask him
@@TheTransfiguredLifewill there be more episodes of this interview?
@@joshuadonahue5871 On Apostolic Succession yes that's the last of it.
@@TheTransfiguredLife which is it lol?
I will speak from my own experience. I would not go anywhere near Christianity for decades because of my brief stint with it in college and because of what I was taught about it by parents who were raised Protestant. Protestant soteriology especially is so blatantly "off" that any thinking person is going to flee when they encounter the "salesman for Jesus" who tries to sell protestant penal substitutionary atonement. Please, please Protestants, you are not helping to "save" anyone by stubbornly clinging to your obviously incorrect theology, ecclesiology, etc....My journey to Christ was WAY longer than it should have been because it is so easy to see that protestants and Catholics are not following the Way. So I threw the baby out with the bathwater because I thought Christianity was as wrong and ridiculous as Protestants and Catholics present it. Thank you for videos like this!!! I hope they have great reach so that people can find the Truth way easier than it was for me to find.
Well said Melissa! 💯💯 Protestant soteriology deterred one of my relatives from the faith. People think heterodox Christianity is harmless when in many cases it causes confusion and in some cases even a disdain for Christianity altogether.
That was a really excellent contribution, getting to the root of things.
Thank you.
Perry is GOLD. please have him more on your channel, Father and Luther.
Fire
Me and Ol' Dr. Anonymous were part of the same "Reformed" Baptist cult.
Thanks gentlemen great content
I REALLY WANT to view Mr.(Dr.?) Perry Robinson's 6 hours on Dr. Ortland's claims!!!! Pllllllleeeeaaasse! I am a Catechumen who is still able to talk to my former reformed/baptism pastor
I'll ask him about the 6 hour video. You and I both are looking forward to it.
Also, that's amazing you still have that open door to talk to your Baptist pastor. Anyway we can help or recommend any resources to you we would be more than happy to fam.
thetransfiguredlife@gmail.com
@@TheTransfiguredLife thank you SO much. I agree, I 'm glad he is willing to still speak. Though, I am very careful as to what I say and reveal. He sent me some of Dr. Ortland's stuff and so I have the opportunity to respond with a fully fledged orthodox argument.
@@jesus_is_kingforever5909 Did you ever get the chance to respond to him? If so how did that go?
What's this about a 6 hour video? Any response back on this?
@@groupedup Perry has been working on an extremely long response video against Gavin that is supposed to release some time this summer.
Orlund presenting a stacked deck approach of monolithic scholarship? Shocking.
Hristos a înviat!
He is risen indeed! Christ is Born Glorify Him! Greetings from an american to a romanian. ¿Eres rumano?¿Sí? Actualmente estoy aprendiendo español. Estoy frustrado por la gramática y la conjugación. Todavía no he conversado, pero tengo amigos y software que me ayudan. Entiendo la mayor parte de lo que leo pero soy demasiado lento para conversar con fluidez. Tengo que dedicar mucho tiempo a pensar en lo que digo o escribo. He mirado el idioma rumano. Puedo entender un poco porque es muy similar al español. Hay tantos acentos en rumano que me pongo bizco. NIcaragua y Rumania son dos lugares en los que he considerado seriamente retirarme. NIcaragua es profundamente cristiana pero mayoritariamente RCC. UH Creo que tendría que traer la iglesia conmigo. No estoy espiritualmente calificado para ser sacerdote y no puedo cantar. Eh. Los nicaragüenses necesitan ortodoxia: los papas de la RCC condenan al gobierno nicaragüense debido a sus vínculos geopolíticos. Mientras tanto, Frances acepta un martillo con Cristo clavado que le entrega Evo Morales y lleva una cruz pectoral de arcoíris. No entiendo al "Papa" Frank. No respondas. Lo descubriré por mi cuenta, ¡pero no sé qué significa este acento ^!
Tommy Almeyda here!
Love your work and each of you, gentlemen.
I shall follow you faithfully and shall Perry Robinson as well.
Many words, I'll need to google.
But Google is simply the dictionary Baba, Nana, and Mom always sent me to.
May Christ always bless your good work and lives. ☦️☦️☦️
Hey Tommy! Thanks. It's a pleasure my brother and always great to hear from you! ☦️
How many times have I heard our late Bishop John addressed as Father John. Especially by older parishioners, because to them it was a term of endearment. Everyone of them knew he was a Bishop, but to them he was Father.
47:00 bookmark for later
They fail on their own priciples. That's a great point. I attend a Baptist church that frequently has fill-in preachers with no affiliation with our "local autonomous congregation" when the senior pastor is away. I've yet to meet another member who has an issue with this. Just as long as they come out of the right seminary, they might as well have been ordained.
Wasnt aware of Koon. I think Quines 2 Dogmas, Saul Kripke and Goedel killed logical positivism in my mind. H20= Water. Is that Synthetic or analytic? Frege's Sense and Reference should have cut it off in the bud and touches on coextension vs interchangeability as does Naming and necessity. I remember Perry's work on apostolic succession. Energetic Procession is one of the reasons why Im orthodox and not roman catholic. pray for me and my family. And God bless Perry.
Kuhn. The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Quine and Kuhn come to similar positions indepedently.
The “Oof!” gets me every time 💀
😂😂😂
All priests are deacons but not all deacons are priests. All bishops are priests but not all priests are bishops. It’s obvious that in the early church the model was one bishop per city and usually just in a single church. As the church grew it became necessary to appoint a priest to assist the bishop in the carrying out of service to the people. Initially this was in the form of a committee of priests that assisted the bishop in a sort of collective leadership. This leadership style with time, as bishops duties became greater, became more monarchical. But, even to this day, it is the bishop who inherently has within him all the powers of the priesthood.
In every instance of the NT churches there were a plurality of elders, there is not a single instance of a single bishop leadership.
I cant put my finger on it. But i think there is something about empiricism that leads to either epistemic nihilism or Berkley style Idealism to subjective wave collapsetheories in physics. Well i know what it is but maybe there is a way out I'm not seeing
Idealism to be sure. This is a well known problem with Lockian empiricism for example.
I agree. This seems to be a very deep problem within Protestantism. I’ve noticed recently that a lot of the arguments against Orthodoxy seem to be predicated on how one feels about specifics within Orthodoxy (I.e. icons, incense, anathemas) but they don’t resolve all of the problems intrinsic to Protestant theology. I heard Gavin Ortlund state (about the anathemas) “that’s not how Christianity works” but he has no foundation upon which to assert this claim, or even a foundation upon which he can define “Christianity”. This “Christianity” becomes so obscure and vague it ultimately becomes redundant - the layman collapses into nihilism.
I think it's still processing the audio.
How is it working for you now?
Right?
the claim made starting around 11:55 about a 3rd century date to the change to the episcopacy is way off. That is not my view. In my videos I consistently speak of an early second century transition, earlier in the East than West. Please represent my views accurately, thank you!
Dr.Gavin, thanks for pointing that out we are sorry for misunderstanding you around the 11:55 mark.
We aim to be rock solid in our critiques and arguments. Apart from that is there anything else that's a point of contention or that you would disagree with?
@@TheTransfiguredLife thanks for the gracious response! I haven’t listened much further, but if I can find some time to work my way through it, I will let you know
Even with an earlier date for your view the argument as a whole that protestant apologists make on this point still stands
At the 1:08:25 minute mark some of your arguments are dealt with more directly. That should be a more fair representation of your arguments. These are in reference to your past Apostolic Succession videos as well as your debate on the subject.
@@TheTransfiguredLife Okay I skipped ahead to that time stamp. So many misrepresentations here. Dating a change to bishops to Cyprian's time is just completely wrong. Its not my view at all. Maybe he is confusing me with someone else, or confusing some other claim that I made about Cyprian. In any case he is simply putting words in my mouth. The idea that I claimed to have read ONLY those three books is completely wrong. He must be assuming that if I referenced three books in a video, that somehow means I have not read others as well (which does not follow). I stopped watching around 1:17:00. If Perry Robinson is going to be having 6 hours of rebuttal work, let's hope he listens more carefully to what my view actually is.
Sounds like Kyle has edited this video! 😂 26:35
😂😂😂
did he ever drop that 6 hour video?
He is this summer
Unfortunately my relative was greatly influenced by Dr. Ortland and he has turned her away from investigating Orthodoxy. She refuses to watch anything orthodox now unless it's a debate with a protestant.
@@jesus_is_kingforever5909 I'm so sorry to hear that. Has she ever watched our stuff. We have dealt thoroughly with Dr.Ortlund.
Here is us with Fr.Whiteford tackling Dr.Ortlunds case for protestantism ⬇️
ruclips.net/video/JJuWMJowB6A/видео.htmlsi=S78tBhPAw37il5KI
@@TheTransfiguredLife unfortunately, the damage has been done though I am considering giving her some references she might investigate. I suppose prayer is the best solution at the current time. If I send too much, she may simply shut down.
@@TheTransfiguredLife I do know, however, that she watched this and for some reason, believed Dr. Ortland was successful in this debate. I think introducing her to basic logically fallacies may improve her judgement.
@@jesus_is_kingforever5909 I think you may have Fr.SDY's and Gavin's debate and mind this is another video.
Matthew 3:9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
What does this passage have to do with Apostolic Succession? In context, John the Baptist was speaking to the Pharisees and Sadducees who were identified as "brood of vipers" due to their malice and deception.
The Orthodox Christians life is a life of repentance so if these words of John the Baptist you quoted are being weaponized as "against Apostolic Succession" then it's being grossly misapplied.
@@TheTransfiguredLife Oh... Silly me...
Can you direct me to a passage that does have something to do with apostolic succession?
Actually I am an orthodox Christian but you would probably call me a protestant
I'm an apostle, right?
@@br.m you commented on part 2 of the Orthodox view of Apostolic Succession which focused on refuting the protestant scholarship. If you want scripture as well as the Early Church Fathers look for part 1.
@@TheTransfiguredLife I guess I should give that a listen. The reason I posted that verse about children from stones. With God all things are possible so God could raise up apostles from stones. There is no need to confine it to some unbroken line of succession.
In that sense it is along the same lines as why John said what he did. It's not so different from EO or RC claiming to be the one true church. Like saying we are the children of Abraham and everyone else is a heretic.
So I hope you can see why I posted a seemingly irrelevant verse, cherry picked out of context. God can raise up a true church even from stones, even from Martin Luther. Eastern Orthodoxy has no right to make such a selfish claim of being the only church. Martin Luther is a child of Abraham, an apostle and of the true Church of Christ and so am I... You probably are too... It can't be confined in to a box and owned and contained by Rome nor bishop nor anyone else.
Maybe you could mention in the description this is part 2 of 2 or however many parts there are. I just noticed it says Part 2 in the thumbnail picture. Would be nice if it said in the description maybe title too.
Peace be with you
@@br.m "There's no need to confine it to an unbroken line of succession."
It's not up to me. Take that up with God. God instituted a visible Church with Bishops, Priests and Deacons. Do you think Jehovah Witnesses or Mormons have true churches or true ministers? If your answer is no, then you can understand where we are coming from when we uphold this doctrine of Apostolic Succession found in scripture and in the Early Church Fathers.
I just watched part of that video (5 reasons to bla bla bla) and what Ortman is saying is that the Roman Catholics, Eastern orthodox, orthodox Syrians all claim exclusivity (that they are the TRUE CHURCH) and so we cancel each other out. Who is to say whatever group has EXCLUSIVELY THE TRUE CHURCH? That would be a question for Perry.
Making an exclusive truth claim is a requirement to be a Scriptural Body, "One Christ, One Faith, One Baptism" according to St. Paul. If a body doesn't make an Exclusionary claim then it cannot be a truly Scriptural Body. Though this isn't a completely sufficient condition to be a true Church, this is where polemicals come in.
Competitive Claims don't equal them automatically canceling each other out. Atheists make this argument often as a polemic against Christianity.