FRESH AIR - simple HRV - (Easy Making)
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- Опубликовано: 12 ноя 2021
- Simple and cheap way to bring fresh air with temperature closer to the room temperature and reduce the heating bill.
I present to you a simple way to build an air to air heat exchanger or HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilation). The advantage of heat recovery ventilation is that you introduce fresh air permanently into the house and at the same time recover some of the thermal energy of the contaminated air that is expelled.
The basic idea of all these devices is that the air that is evacuated outside by means of a separation element exchanges the temperature with the fresh air that enters. In this way less energy is needed to reheat the fresh air in winter or less energy consumed on cooling during the summer if there is a cooling system. In this video I tried to build a simplified version of a punctual heat exchanger.
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This video saved me $500
Brilliant! I love this design and am looking forward to copying it. Its weird that all the other videos on the same subject try to overcomplicate things while this design is much easier and seemingly more effective than the other tube or corrugated plastic designs. Will definitly include this when I eventually get around to building a tiny house. It feels so great when you can make something that sells for $1000 for $20.
everything i needed to know while being short and positively vibed, thanks!
Love the simplicity.
Well done, that´s a rather clever and easy to build solution.
I think this is out of the box thinking myself!!! More betta than others I've seen regarding foils and simplicity.
Jobe well done for a prototype. it could get a little more fancy but simple is sometimes harder to come up with.
I'm wondering if it would be more efficient making longer and if use thinner aluminum as in (thick foil).
The air in my basement is not great and I do some jewelry work in one room it would be nice to evacuate fumes and save some cash using an exchanger. Georgia gets nice and toasty/cold in winter too.
I'll be building a traditional unit much larger later with the corrugated plastic.... think the fancy ones are made of, but this is great!!
Thanks for posting this is what RUclips is all about!!
Nice idea.
very good job !!!!!!!
Nice video - I like the simple concept, thanks for taking the time to produce and upload it. Spraying (or painting) the contact surfaces of the heat exchanger unit with a coat of matt black paint should increase the efficiency of your unit by a notable degree.
Smart stuff 👍🏽
Thanks for appreciation .
Foreign levels of out-of-the-box creativity and resourcefulness detected. Temps displayed in Celsius is the final confirmation that you are not American.
german engineering at its finest!
Romania
That's awesome😮
this is so simple. awesome. You're super smart. maybe you could make it more efficient by having more exchange area.
that is unexpectedly efficient. having fresh air at aprox. 15 degrees when the average temp is slightly above 15 degrees (inside is 22 and outside is 8) is extremely efficient for that small setup.
have you tried decreasing the airflow for the fan that brings air from the outside? If the fans have different speeds you might be able to obtain fresh air with higher temps and avoid condensation by not cooling the hot air from the house below it's dew point. I doubt condensation would happen if the room has fresh air heated and then cooled back to half it's original temperature (because by heating air you decrease it's humidity and by cooling it only to it's original temperature it won't reach it's original dew point)
If you take fresh air from the outside at 8 degrees, it's dew point will be lower like 3 degrees, and if you heat that up by bringing it inside it will have the same water vapor in it, which means it's dew point will remain the same even if now it has 22 degrees, and after it gets pulled into the exchanger it will be cooled to 15 degrees like the fresh air that goes the opposite direction. The only reason for it to cause condensation is if you have a water source in the room. Unless you're working out in that room, your breathing alone is never going to raise the dew point from 3 to 15.
If the room isn't loosing pressure you could just use a single fan that forces air out, and that would create negative pressure on the other opening that would suck fresh air in at a lower speed that would allow it to maybe heat up a bit more than the average temperature between the room and the outside. Probably the room isn't that airtight and it's probably a bad idea but still worth a try just for the possible 50% energy savings by using a single fan instead of two.
Congrats on the build! I wish I'd have the courage to try!
could you go into more detail as too how you would do this
@@nosequiters sure, I would use a single board such as raspberry 0 which doesn't have wifi or anything else, should be around 10 USD/EUR, connect to it a humidity sensor and a fan. The fan ideally should be a centrifugal one, similar to laptops, not the ones with the blades which are used in old desktops, because are more efficient to generate pressure diferences. I hope it is helpful for you, feel free to ask more
@@nosequiters another combination could be to have 2 temperature sensors, one in the room and a secondary sensor outside, to calculate the ideal air speed
Nice build Smart!! How do you address condensation?
Love it, it's basically a large heat sink that you get in a PC. I would add a filter. The type used in breathing machines like CPAP is thin. Also, could this work room to room instead of outside?
Please make a version with more turns for the zig-zag (more zig-zags), and with more length for the zig-zags while also increasing the distance between the corners of the zig-zags. This will likely increase the efficiency, resulting in the temperature difference between the inside temperature and fresh air being lower.
Very interesting design - thanks! How big is your aluminium plate?
ahh, good technique!
Гениально!
If I were to use this for a bike camper, would I be able to make it smaller, or would this size still be needed?
is that enough to cold your room for that PC Fan?
The music 🎵🎶 tho 👍🏾
👌👍👏
what kind of adhesive did you use
impresionante, se puede mejorar facilmente poniendo filtros de carbon activos y de polvo.
Great design. BTW, can you please tell me what kind of glues you are using on the foam and for mounting the fans? Thanks!
Its spray foam used for the foam board it bonds it... like the expanding foam....
This looks great, have been looking for ideas to make a cheap heat exchanger as I only have one window in my room facing busy street, I have to keep closed to stop noise and privacy but need air not to be cold, all other I have seen very expensive to make, need workshop fancy tools etc. could you please say what material you made the element out of? is it just aluminum foil like you glued on the insides?
Hello. I'm glad you find my approach interesting. I have built the 0.5 mm thick aluminum sheet heat exchanger. I inserted this exchanger into the tube as shown in the video without any sealing, I just made sure it took up all the space up to the ends and to the sides. Because there is no high pressure I decided is not mandatory to have a seal between the incoming and outgoing air. The walls of the tube are made of extruded polystyrene and for this reason I thought of gluing some foil on them. Initially I wanted to paint them with a washable but I did not have available.
@@BCreativeDIY Great video! I’m having trouble finding the aluminum heat exchanger where do you find it?
@@prsrvz just fold some thin aluminium sheet metal
Well designed, congrats. Im wondering if you did a smoke test to see if air got recirculated in the locality of the two fans - in other words does the expelling fan draw from the other fan being so close together?
But what does it do?
Hot air coming into the house will heat the metal and cooler air going outside will cool the metal. It achieves nothing.
You must radiate the heat of the metal without expelling the cool air of the house, if you want to cool the house. Like a heat pump.
@@glidercoach en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_recovery_ventilation
@@kevinmcgrath3591
Yes, you just confirmed my comment. Your link shows a proper heat pump.
This is not a heat pump.
@@glidercoach Did you even read the linked article? It does not describe a heat pump which uses phase change of a pumped carrier.
This is a way to recover some of the temperature difference that would otherwise be lost between outside air and inside air that you are expelling as they pass thru the separate sides of the duct.
@@glidercoachthis is just heat recovery ventilation. VENTILATION.
Did you see a compressor anywhere?? Nope.
You can’t make a heatpump without a compressor.
No this is NOT a heatpump setup.
huh. cool. wonder how well it works?
Hi, great project. What is the foam board construction material called please.
looks like XPS to me
It's Working sir ? Thanks
What is that purple material called?
very nice and simple design, but there is ventilators which needs power supply and consumption. There must be calculated the efficiency. How about natural interchange of air without ventilators? What's the volume of air per hour interchanged according to difference of temperature?
You have to push the ventilation with a fan anyway so other than some resistance due to the increased boundary layer drag of the corrigated heat exchanger wall, efficiency is minimal compared to needing to heat/cool unconditioned air.
A vertical exchanger can take advantage of convection, but its not as effective as actively pushing it with a fan.
Go easy on the glue there buddy...
Condensation seems like it will be an issue. Wonder if you could just design it at an angle so it just drains out.
I would need a filter on mine, but the concept here is solid. However, isn’t this an ERV and not an HRV since anyone living in hot and humid climates won’t get any humidity removed?
Does this work for when its hotter outside than in? Like in Arizona, where I live?
Yes, as he says "a separation element exchanges the temperature with the fresh air that enters." - meaning cold air going out will reduce the temperature of the air coming in
Can you please tell me the thickness of the aluminium plate? It seems to be thicker than soda can (0.2 mm as I measured)
Most likely it is .2mm aluminum flashing, which is pretty cheap and easy to get from a hardware store.
Un radiador interculer de un coche el que se usa para enfriar el aire Turbo tendría que ir bien
nice. but u have to know the poliuretan foam esp/eps hardly emmit voc. only safe materials the pvc, pp, abs, nylon, pla, metal
Whats the difference btw this project and a real air ventilation product?
$500
$4,500.00 USD
I calculate the efficiency to be 47.8% . Assuming the fans are 56.3 CFM each, that's 0.414 kW of heat exchanged.
How do you calculate this?
The hot air heating the plate coming in, is being cooled by cooler air from the house. If your goal is to cool the house why would you use this cooler air to cool the metal?
The goal is to minimize the energy used to heat / cool the house while drawing in outside air. So you pre heat / cool the air coming in using the energy from exhaust.
Outside 8. Fresh air in 15. So gained 7 through the heat exchanger. 7/15=~47%.
how do You Catch and dispose the condens water?
You need to come with another solution, because this ist v.0001 i Hope.
I thought that if I tilt it outwards then the condensation will flow outside . The problem occurs if there is too much condensation and it is too cold outside, then at some point ice will form :). First I would like to make some more rigorous measurements related to efficiency and then I think of other details.
I think you need more cpu fans, isn't enough with one mate 😊👍
Actually there are two fans, one introduces air and one blows out. It works quite well because there are no filters that require more pressure.
@@BCreativeDIY yeah I know there are two lol but still it works great with more fans ;)
I actually runned the math about 15 minutes ago and I found out that one 10x10 mm cpu cooler can change the air in a room with about 7.5 cubic meters around 4 times per hour, that for my use case is as good as it gets. I'm amazed, I can't believe a CPU cooler moves that much air
Airflow numbers in fans specification are usually measured at 0 pressure drop.
So that number doesnt apply to real life. Slow, axial fans can be easily choked to near zero airflow with a filter.
Adding more fans in this particular circumstance would be detrimental.
The heat exchanger in this unit is in fact undersized for the airflow with the two existing fans, evidenced by the modest ~47% efficiency as noted elsewhere in the comments by another contributor.
The efficiency of this unit could be increased by enlarging the heat exchanger, if it were increased by a large amount then more airflow could be added.
Idea is solid, but you should really educate yourself on the dangers of some plastics. Polystyrene is a material you really dont want your air to go through!
You need airflow fans!!
The ones you used are static pressure and aren't as good for high airflow applications
but wouldn't high airflow require a much longer metal exchanger plate? the low airflow ones used probably are fine for such a short box? I guess this is intended to just get some fresh air gently over a long time period rather than none at all.
That's just wrong, you shouldn't use metal, you've just introduced a cold bridge, I'll bet anything, when it is cold outside, this is worse than opening a window.
Problem with this is, a situation where your house is at the desired temperature but you need more air is extremely rare, unless you have a zoo, chemistry lab, or open pit fire, in the house, the internal air being too 'contaminated' is a non-problem.
Far more common a problem is the internal air is too hot or too cold, and you want to change this WITHOUT bringing too much extra air into the house.
The modern move to airtight houses, in order to reduce energy consumption for heating/cooling means that household air becomes stale and damp much more than in past times - if you just extract air then that means that fresh air has to get in to replace it, which is likely at the wrong temperature for your needs.
So these devices extract stale/moist air and replace it with fresh air, which uses the heat exchanger to make the incoming air a similar temperature to the outgoing air.
This simple (but excellent!) design is as someone else noted, around 47% efficient - commercial units are up to 90%.
So instead of allowing fresh air in and heating/cooling it to your desired household temperature, you'd only have to use ~10% of that energy to "top off" the difference in temperature of the incoming air.
@@will_doherty But could this not be achieved by waiting until a time where ambient air is the right temperature, and simply opening windows?
How many times a year does air get too 'stale' anyway? Not many!
@@Debbiebabe69 Everyone's situation varies - we have problems with excess humidity for maybe 4 months over the winter, which this type of extractor is ideal for - when it's -5°C outside and 20°C inside, heating fresh air takes a lot of fuel, aside from being less than comfortable whilst the windows are open and cold air permeates through the house...
@@Debbiebabe69 The air is too 'stale' every hour of every day. The problem is CO2. There's an enormous amount of available info on this. Most of the World can't afford to keep their windows open all year.
Ok , the video is very cool but the start video is cringe AF
Thank you for the feedback. I have tried to add a new level of complexity to my videos and that's all I managed for the moment 😅 .
I'm at a loss on what this does.
If it's hotter outside than it is on the inside and you want to cool the house, it will heat the house. The metal plate serves no purpose.
If it's colder outside then this would heat the fresh air coming in to keep your house warmer. If it's hot outside and you are using ac, then it would cool the incoming hot air and keep your house cooler.
The whole point of this thing is getting some fresh air into the house though.
@@BlacksmithGen
Within minutes, the temperature of the plate would equalise with the incoming outside air, rendering it useless.
To make it work, you would need a system to keep the plate hotter or colder than the incoming outside air.
Also a plate has very little surface area and is not efficient. It would need fins like an air conditioning evaporator core, to heat or cool the air efficiently.
This whole thing makes no sense.
@@glidercoach the internal air is the system that makes the plate hotter or colder. That's where the heat exchange is happening.
I agree though there are lots of ways of making this more efficient but all at much more expense. But I think as it is it'll keep working so long as there is some heat differential between inside and out.
@@BlacksmithGen
It's an eyesore and not worth the trouble.
@@glidercoach I'd make sure you don't accidentally make one and install it into your house then I guess.
There is no way those 4 inch PC fans move enough air to do what you want them to do.