Eternal Sunshine: Is It Deep or Dumb? - Wisecrack Edition
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - Is It Deep or Dumb?
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Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a classic Michel Gondry film - blending stunning visual sequences and great performances with a compelling narrative about heartbreak. But behind all the bells and whistles, is the movie really saying anything? Let's find out in this Wisecrack Edition on Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind: Is It Deep or Dumb?
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This is what makes this film the best movie to watch after a rough breakup. It helps you recognize the value in pain, and the importance of embracing the good damage
"That means that all the damage I got isn't 'good damage'. It's just damage. I have gotten nothing out of it and all those years I was miserable was for nothing" - Diane Nguyen
Boom.
@@InfiriaeStarbloom that's from Bojack Horseman?
Very very well said
it’s better to have loved and lost than never loved at all
The "Okay" with a shrug that Joel gives to Clementine is so simple yet so powerful and beautiful.
It always makes me tear up.
Yeah it's simple and beautiful
Nico Ferglez i feel like john green ripped that “okay?” “okay” that he used in The fault in our stars from here.
So simple but powerful
True dat
To me, it is the most important, spoken word in the entire movie. It's simple and yet carries a lot of powerful information on how we should handle romantic relationships.
I tear up too
The lady in the waiting room with her dog's stuff always gives me projectile tears. It's such a subtle detail only onscreen for a couple of seconds, but an utterly heartbreaking example of the film's dilemma.
Wow I missed it. What was that?
@@kjkls A year late, but it's when Joel walks into the Lacuna office with the stuff he gathered that reminds him of Clementine, I believe.
What I can't get my mind over is the fact that it came out in 2004, time flies and it's honestly pretty scary.
What? You're even in these kind of videos?
@@jagonz70580 yeah it's kinda scarry!!! I even see him comment in a video about donkey's care.
You have it easy. I’m in 2045 already.
How old are you?
@@huitzisalazar4666 He's giving Justin Y a run for his money.
i have not met a single person in my entire life who watched Eternal Sunshine and disliked it. I have a specific memory of the first time I watched it and that impact it left.
i disliked it, here now you met one person that did, you're welcome
@@arshilover333 aaahh SHIT!!!
Am i the only one who thinks that this movie is super boring and doesnt have a much storyline? I cant understand why many people think this is a good movie
I've met many people on both ends, they either adore it or hate it, but very few if any "meh, was okay"
Its so weird even my entire grade 11 english class full of absolute chads loved this movie
Clementine: “I'm not a concept. Too many guys think I'm a concept or I complete them or I'm going to 'make them alive'…but I'm just a f*cked up girl who's looking for my own peace of mind. Don't assign me yours.” Not a manic pixie dream girl at all. Clementine is not some ethereal one-dimensional vessel for the writer's ideas. As the timeline shows, she remembers Joel on the train (because it's post-surgery), and insists on conversation, despite erasing the memories of their relationship, they cannot escape that familiarity, even if Joel does not immediately reciprocate. That's a really fundamental part of the film's message. I found the rest of the analysis enjoyable and interesting, but c'mon!
I think the problem is less that Clementine is a Manic Pixie Dreamgirl and more that other movies which came after this only copied the surface-level presentation and created Manic Pixie Dreamgirls in the process. Like how the Bourne Identity made shakeycam fight scenes a thing and was actually pretty good, but all the imitators that came after missed the reason why it worked and were just copying the impressions they had of them. It's worth pointing out Clementine was one of the originators of the trope even if she doesn't actually fit it.
Agreed... it’s the same thing with 500 days of summer. Manic pixie dream girl point is that she’s essentially a tool. To better the life of whatever moody and scrawny guy that’s in front of her. Summer and Clementine are not just tools.... they may be seen as that by the MCs but they are not. They have agencies beyond the guy they are with. That’s the difference. It’s has the almost the same vein as the obsessive women trope - where they live and die for the guy they like but this time less scary because it’s more reciprocated
It's a much more subtle takedown of the MPDG concept than in more directed critiques like, say, Ruby Sparks' open and direct attack on the authorial concept. I liked that movie, but by making such a clear and extreme version of the trope to attack, they divorce it somewhat from reality so the people who'd do best learning from it have cause to dismiss it.
Clementine, on the other hand, is every MPDG trait, but as real traits in a real person meeting a real sadboy - and showing how these traits apart have good and bad sides, and that in combination can make for erratic, volatile and difficult people that are still captivating enough that they draw you in whether they want to or not.Adventurous can be restless, spontaneous can be unstable, and that magnetic self that draws you to them is not a good thing at all when you don't belong together. It does the sort of thing Watchmen does with superheroes; telling you that you should be glad these people are not real because if they were you would not like them, and the more you feel you need one the more dangerous it would be for you to find one.
@@FictionFactoryGames Whilst I agree with the concept of how certain films or forms of media auteur a specific style or technique that is then copied and seems to pop up constantly in other creators' work from then on out, I disagree with the assertion that Manic Pixie Dreamgirls came from Clementine. Throughout most cinema history, this archetype has appeared many times prior to Eternal Sunshine. Unless you mean physical aesthetic (i.e. multicoloured hair, mismatched clothes, etc), there's plenty of charismatic, mercurial, disorganised, impulsive, Diogenesian female love-interest characters used in a plethora of films. Audrey Hepburn as Holly Golightly in Breakfast at Tiffany's is the first one that comes to my head, as well as Diane Keaton as Annie Hall in Woody Allen's classic 'Annie Hall' (let's be honest, Diane Keaton IRL is just straight up an actual Manic Pixie Dreamgirl naturally - no diss). When considering modern examples that precede Eternal Sunshine, I was reminded of Natalie Portman's character in 'Garden State' and was amused to find that it released just a few months prior to Eternal Sunshine. Kate Winslet's character in Eternal Sunshine as Clementine is a deliberate RESPONSE to earlier iterations of Manic Pixie Dreamgirls. It's a critique of it. I would even argue that the film, in its entirety, is a critique on the notion of authenticity when it comes to relationships and how we tend to generalise people into a small bundle of traits and characteristics rather than perceive them as fully fleshed out people - in the same way that writers tend to create simplistic archetypes of people in an inauthentic way. This is demonstrated by Elijah Wood's character when he tries to fabricate a meaningful connection to Clementine using heirlooms from her forgotten relationship with Joel. Elijah Wood's character fails to understand that Clementine and Joel's relationship and the connection was based on something greater than the sum of its parts and can't be reduced down to the odd item or shared possession. You may agree with all of this or I may have misunderstood your opinion but this discussion is interesting nonetheless lol. Sorry for the essay.
That's exactly what i thought, she is not a manic pixie girl. She's her own person
This is a movie that is understood emotionally rather than rationally. You have to have truly loved someone for this movie to hit right.
You need to have lost someone in someway for it to hit. That can be a breakup, but for me it was my best friends death.
Well, yes and no. I’m reading tons of comments from people analyzing the characters’ compatibility, and nothing discussing the ethics, impact or wisdom of erasing one’s painful memories. And I do think that’s relevant, because notwithstanding the fact that this film is presently in the genre of science fiction, it’s entirely conceivable that one day technology will develop to the point where erasing painful memories actually is possible.
People are pointing out that Joel and Clem are “doomed” due to their differences and limitations. No one is speaking to the fact that the human mind already does repress traumatic memories, and that people are permanently impacted by the negative things that happen to them. While pain from the demise of a romantic relationship may offer the potential for enlightenment, self-reflection and growth - other negative experiences may only inhibit growth, success and potential for satisfaction in life - especially adverse experiences occurring during one’s formative years.
Perhaps a more productive dialogue could be had regarding contending with memories which negatively impact one’s ability to function effectively in adulthood - including in intimate relationships as a securely attached individual. Indeed, the movie clearly alludes to the fact that Joel’s attraction to Clementine is rooted in his relationship with his mother. This begs the question: Could we perhaps really benefit from having some memories eradicated?
If so, they probably wouldn’t be the ones we might believe need erasure!
@@user-qz2ld3vt2dMe too. ❤ I miss him all the time.
This is one of the last movies I had expected to get a Deep or Dumb video
I know, I would have automatically thought that it was deep!
Ya there have been a few questionable entries into this section. Midsommar got it when I’d have thought it’d get an immediate ‘philosophy of’.
I think deep or dumb should be more reserved for films like The Dark Knight Rises
This is basically a “Philosophy of”, I think the “deep or dumb” was just clickbait.
Well, it pulled me in, and I'm glad I watched this video, but is deception moral?
I was thinking the same thing. Like it's definitely not dumb
boobz
correct
If some of his videos end up being dumb instead of deep, his tagline is accurate. It only happened that this particular movie was deep and not dumb.
Who would ever call this movie dumb?
Well their relationship had no depth to it in the film. If that was intentional on part of the filmmakers to show how dysfunctional a relationship based on a lack of realism would be, and that these two probably shouldn't be together, then it isn't dumb. But if the film intends on it being a genuine love story, then it is dumb because there is no depth to it at all.
@@mish375 thats interesting point, i always framed it as a shallow relationship doomed to fail but never thought of the perspective they couldve depicted genuine. Mostly because the film seemed to flow toward the former. Or maybe that was my internal biases
@@rpdotg7408 I'm mixed on this because, while I didn't like the film, I think that if the point was these two were bad for each other then it's a commentary and actually pretty realistic. When we get to the part where he realizes that it was her sense of excitement and I guess anti-rules attitude that made him leave his fiancée for her, that felt shallow. I felt sorry for the woman he left and had no investment in either of them, even though we never see his fiancée the entire movie. So perhaps the point is that a relationship based on no substance is doomed to be toxic to everyone in the end? Have the filmmakers commented on this at all? Do we know?
People like me who saw the name and the marketing and dismissed it as one of the million pointless romcoms that movie studios churn out. Now that I have an idea of what it's actually about, I'll actually watch the movie if I ever get a chance.
@@mish375 I wouldn't worry about the filmmakers perspective. If you see it, it's there, and vice versa. I recommend you interpret the film in a way that gives the most enjoyment and/or content for discussion. I think creators are often to close to the work to give the most useful interpretation.
All I know is I burst into tears when it cuts to him crying in his car in the beginning...hits hard.
sounds to me that you guys whanted to talk about this movie and did´nt know in which section do it
it needed to be said and explained for some idiots. it tends to happen that when something is highly praised, a vocal minority will start invalidating the praise and people without an opinion and can swing to either will start listening to them. This video gives you arguments against that.
Sounded to me like they wanted to talk about the book and decided on a random movie to do it
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is one of those rare perfect films for me. I’ve watched it so many times and each time it gets better and better with age and as you get closer in age to the characters themselves. You start to understand the mundane and yet exciting and ethereal aspects of life like being in love, staying in love, and loosing that love all in one lifetime. It begs the question what truly is shared love? What does it mean to love another, and what does it mean to love yourself and the life that you live. Would it be better to live your life haunted by the memories of the past or will you take the control of your past to confront the present and prepare for your future. It would be my favorite film of all time if David Lynch didn’t make Mulholland Dr.
I didn't get it. Eternal Sunshine, despite people trying to get me to see it for years, came across as shallow because the main characters' relationship wasn't based off of anything real. Perhaps that was the filmmaker's point which would make it deep as these two shouldn't be together. But if it's about real love, this film has no depth. I'm undecided. Then there's the whole plot hole of the memory company even existing without being shut down.
@@mish375 It absolutely isn't about real love in the romantic sense. It's about failed relationships and how they're still important for us to remember. They shape who we are. What their relationship was actually like is ever only hinted at and the viewer is supposed to fill in the blanks with memories of their own, similar experiences. To me it felt very real because I've lived through something like this. As for the company, that's just Charlie Kaufman's brand of magical realism. It's something insane that could never really exist thrown into an otherwise real world. Much like a door that leads into John Malkovich's head or a life size replica of new york built in a warehouse. He loves these kinds of what if scenarios.
@@Vortal_Cord I think the main problem is that both characters seemed very shallow and their connection wasn't real to me. I felt more sorry for Jim Carrey's character's finacée that he left for Clementine. And she doesn't even show up in the film. If the intent of the filmmakers was to commentate on the fact that they probably shouldn't have been together, that would make sense. Their relationship har no substance. But if it's about real love then it completely fails.
Also, Kaufman lost me in this world when he had the executives partying like high school students. Is anyone likeable in this story? There doesn't seem to be anyone.
@@mish375 It is directly about how their relationship is a classic Disaster Relationship. That's why the whole movie is about a relationship built exactly like the classic Manic Pixie Dream Girl romantic comedy, with the classic sadboy protagonist traits in the lead and the classic MPDG traits in the interest - except these traits are depicted here as being somewhat toxic and occasionally destructive, just like they are in real life and never are in classic MDPG romcoms. The memory-edit company is a physical version of getting over a terrible relationship and moving on, and it exists as a physical entity because that's required for the film's metaphors to hold - just like the dreams need to be explored as physical space for the narrative to flow. Joel's determined resistance to forgetting appears to be about wilfully fighting against accepting how terrible the relationship is, falling deeper and deeper into fantasy to pretend things are actually fine and great so he can cling on. The dream metaphor is needed to explore it from his unreal perspective; otherwise his portrayal of remembering Clementine as a good thing is exposed as wrong too obviously.
That's my read, anyway. There's a few really good ways to read it. None of them involve accepting their relationship as great, because it's consistently presented in both the 'real' sections and in the honest sections of Joel's memories as at least seriously incompatible and more likely openly toxic.
As for unlikeable characters, they're important to the story. Finding out that the leads are unpleasant is critical to the narrative, and other characters being too likeable would give the audience someone to cling to, reducing empathy for the leads and so compromising the intended audience reaction. Whether it's worth it is a personal reaction.
Hip to be square holy fuck, my favorite movie is aswell mulholland drive, and my second favorite movie is this one!!!! we just love people who love great movies
I feel like this film doesn't belong in this series.
I know right!!! Even I was confused
That's I what I was thinking. this movie clearly is something special
Yup. This feel like a case of Wisecrack trying to show how big his brain is and accidently biting off more than he could chew.
THANK YOU! There's no argument even presented for it being dumb
@@inkelf it would be boring if they only did dumb movie analysis on this series, I don't see the issue, I clicked because I loved Eternal Sunshine
I'm not sure it's a given that their relationship is doomed. They've looped through it a few times, yes, but now they have an advantage none of the other loops had -- hard evidence of what went wrong before and what traps they can expect to fall into. To be forewarned is forearmed (four armed?) and now they can have more realistic expectations going in instead of a manic whirlwind of idealized romance that will burn out once reality sets in.
So in the end being flexible is a little okay too for this fucked up world (?)
Agreed. They're gonna find flaws in one another, things that get on each other's nerves and irritate them, but that doesn't mean that they won't be able to still love each regardless.
They were trying to be each other's "fixes", but now they've grown into a much healthier place to have a much healthier relationship with one another. That's an upper of an ending, not a downer.
Considering that it ended the first time after she wiped her memory on a whim, you can assume that won't happen again because they're both more aware of the consequences of that
I just keep coming back to this film over the years. The cinematography, music, storytelling, dialogue, story-within-story... everything about this film is just wonderful. A truly honest, organic, sincere piece of finest art.
You nailed it.
This is one of the hardest movies for me to watch. Heartbreak always gets to me, when it’s done in a way that you can really really feel what the characters are feeling and relate to in your own life
Ok no, there is no magic pixie dream girl in this movie. Not Clementine nor Mary. By definition the magic pixie dream girl is a character that exists just to adorn the male lead. They don't have depth and they don't develop/evolve. And both Clementine and Mary change during the movie and have a background of their own.
Clementine actually doesn’t evolve tho. It’s just Joel’s perception of her that evolves. Therefor I’m gonna give her a MPDG A+ 😂
“Too many guys think I'm a concept, or I complete them, or I'm gonna make them alive. But I'm just a fucked-up girl who's lookin' for my own peace of mind; don't assign me yours.”
You're being too plastic. ;-)
@@mxtw7910 I am sorry you didn't see more than what you wanted. :/
God, even just as a clip in a review, hearing "meet me in Montauk" got me all teary-eyed.
1. The capacity to accept our partner (and our relationship) with patience and respect instead of trying to change them or ourselves to be more perfect is so underrated.
2. We need our traumata, our disappointments, our mistakes; if we don't accept that we all are lonely and flawed, we have no reason to actually reach out to others.
Thank you for the video ☺
All i can say is this movie hits hardest when you've gone through the same thing. A long term relationship that was amazing and real and beautiful in the beginning but ended up very painful, endless arguments unable to forget the horrible things you said to one another. Those who never experienced that won't feel this movie as deeply, you won't see yourself in these characters at all
Clementine's dislike for flexibility is also hinted at when she repeatedly reacts poorly at being called "nice" throughout the movie
And she acts impulsivly... Ong
This bothered me too until Joel uttered the line 'I'm the nicest guy she ever went out with'
Well that's also because Joel used it too much when they were dating and Patrick started using it to try to manipulate her. She couldn't remember why she hates the word but there's a story reason for her hating it
100% in with the folks who say that Clem is not a MPDG. She only seems like one and therein lies pretty much half the failure of their relationship, as Joel learns that her adorable quirks are really signs of darker problems: emotional instability, (implied) alcoholism, emotional immaturity, and whatever you call spending too much money at Urban Outfitters. She knows the score, and she gives him her little speech at the bookstore to prove it, but she’s still attracted to straightlaced guys, even though she knows she’ll get bored with them (looks like classic commitmentphobia). Joel isn’t your typical sad-sack Mopey Guy (the MPDG’s usual companion); he’s actually a talented artist with a lot of creativity and a ton of pent-up rage that finds its way out around his very tightassed persona, and one thing that does happen in the movie is that Joel finds some agency that he didn’t have before. Charlie Kaufman is waaaay too smart to write shorthand characters. And maybe I’m just a hopeless romantic under my jaded cynical exterior, but there’s something about the ending that suggests that the self-awareness they have from learning about their past might give them a better chance at making their relationship work the second time around.
Joel's pent up rage comes from being too scared to stand up to his overbearing mom and so his creativity is his outlet to express his emotions which leads to his attraction to Clementine.
I don't think Kate Windslet's character is a manic pixie dream girl.
I think it's supposed to be a red herring in the beginning. The scene in the train at the beginning definetly has something manic pixie-like to it, but it subverts the trope by showing what a piece of work she actually is.
@@TheRealPrunebutt IMO putting ill fitted character into a trope is meh.
I was curious what a "manic pixie dream girl" was so I googled it. Her picture comes up in every article and she is often cited as the origin of of the trope.
Here's a great video on why she isn't a 'manic pixie dream girl' and is more of a deconstruction of that trope
ruclips.net/video/WwGjpPlgqyo/видео.html
I think the deconstruction of that trope is evident when she says "I'm not a concept"
One of the best examples of In Media Res. The movie begins near the end.
Or or you could just throw the line "I open at the close" in there and just ponder it till you get there. I think the best representation of that line is this movie.
Kate Winslet’s character was NOT a manic pixie dream girl
Agreed, Clementine is a mere DECONSTRUCTION of one, along the same lines as Penny from "Almost Famous", or Summer from "500 Days of Summer", in that she isn't just a quirky, whimsical woman who exists just to give meaning to Joel's life, but she has her own demons outside of him.
Thank you!
Also, the creator of the term has pretty much disowned it.
@@trinaq I agree, it's actually a pretty good deconstruction since it shows the typical mpdg traits specifically manifesting in a toxic way.
She's just a fucked up girl who's looking for her own piece of mind
"Blessed is the mind too small for doubt."
Arguably Kate and Jim's best performances! Definitely a contender for the "Deep" category! 🤗🧡
Totally agree, I love Jim's serious forays into acting, immensely.
I love him Carey in serious roles
Number 23 is Carrey’s best serious performance.This movie had some ridiculous scenes
I hope that hug is for everyone here in the comment section!!
@@TomyBinho he just couldnt help himself could he
i wish Jim Carrey would do more roles like this one
Charlie Kaufman? I already know is deep...
I'm just happy he didn't direct this one, or it wouldn't be nearly as good. Just take a look at the original script if you don't believe me.
Boris Gucovski did you watch Synecdoche New York?
Boris Gucovski but I wouldn’t change the direction of Eternal Sunshine. You’re right
@@tiago3200 I did. I'm a huge fan of Kaufman's work but I need to give this one a rewatch. I remember being very confused, but liking it.
Boris Gucovski yeah not an easy piece to digest
This movie showed me also that even if you erase a memory of your relationship if you have loved deeply, you still will find the person you love. We see this two times: Joel and Clementine find each other again and Mary has a crush on Howard again.
this is a deep movies and i will DIE on this hill
I don't think anyone's gonna show up to fight you
Make some room, I'm right there with ya.
Me too !
As someone who embraces dreams, melancholy, nostalgia, artistry, and love in all its forms, this movie struck so many chords within me that I’ve rewatched it over a dozen times over the years. I’ve read the script multiple times as well. This movie is deeper than Atlantis and Lemuria combined.
If they don't mention the fact that Charlie Kaufman is responsible for writing this masterpiece that would be a crime. He's one of the best movie writers ever imo.
Aidan Gillard 🙌 He’s a genius. Synecdoche New York and Eternal Sunshine are 2 of my 5 fav movies of all time🤩
They’re in my top 10 at least. Synecdoche is probably #1
When you said this movie was deep I let out a sigh of relief, not sure why it meant so much, respect.
2004 is well emulated when Opera sponsors a video.
I always got the impression that the 2nd time was showing the subconscious growth or a beneficial balance if luck considering they were less neurotic in meeting. They planted seeds the 2nd time of genuine affection instead of insecurity as they had the first time. I think it's a glimmer of hope. I'd love to see synecdoche Ny get analyzed
Exactly how i understood it ❤
I just finished watching this movie for the first time and it’s literally one of the greatest movies I’ve ever seen in my WHOLE life I kid you not 😂😂
One of my favorite movies from the time it first came out. You have excellent taste in films 👍
@@angelamitchinson8439 I agree. We have to pick a movie for a class that's about Change, manipulation, honesty, and the like. Then we have to narrate it to everyone else. I'm going with this one.
@@marcosgibson9371 Excellent choice 👍👍👍
😭😭same. never seen anything like it
I mean, I like the way he explains his perspective of the movie. I agree with most of it until the end. Wouldn’t it be more plastic for them to accept that they would be better off by themselves? Because at the end what they are doing is to come back to what they are used to. Given that they don’t remember each other, of course. But ending a meaningful relationship and being able to part ways in a Mature way, that’s plasticity. Stay in a relationship that has turn toxic, that seems to me like flexibility. You could contrast this with 500 days of summer where both characters grew at their own pace. At the end they just exercised their agency, which I love, by staying together. I just think that base on the concepts that he exposed, I’m not sure that what they demonstrated was plasticity. Either way, that’s probably one of my favorite movies of all times. And I love wise crack.
I tought the same... But as they didnt have memories, the plasticity was to enter the relationship. The plasticity wasnt "destructive" but constructive in this scenario.
It was easier to walk away from such situation
BUT they somehow still had feelings for each other, unconsicously, and that makes it as you said, flexibility for staying, plasticity for leaving.
Not really, plasticity isn't about making the most mature choice. That would be flexibility. Making the most mature choice relates to being well adjusted, self sufficient and the most productive version of yourself according to societal norms. The theory presented here highlights that we can refuse to make those efficiency-oriented choices to live richer though maybe more rough experiences (in the light of societal standards) as our brains have the capacity to deal with so much more than what's efficiency-oriented. It's an invitation to look for value where we're conditioned to see unproductive mess. At least that's what I got
@@sika5183 beautifully said
Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind will be my favorite movie until I die. And I think that no, Clementine is NOT a manic pixie dream girl, and Joel is not just a boring man made to have a "Manic Pixie Dream Girl"-girl friend. This movie gave me chills the whole time because of the story, it will have a place in my heart forever.
Calling Clementine a manic pixie dream girl is not listening to what she actually says during the movie and only concentrating on her looks. Which is exactly what she accuses guys of doing, like making her responsible for giving meaning to their lives and disregarding the fact the she, herself, has her own problems to sort through. I'm fine with the rest of the analysis, just sayin, this movie is as much about Clem as it is about Joe
Questioning whether Eternal Sunshine is deep or dumb: Is It Deep or Dumb? - Wisecrack Edition
Dumb.
Jareds's hair deserves it's own 'Philosophy Of'
Hey mf’ers, bring back thug notes!
X2
Yo for real
Does i make me a bad person that I used to show those to my high school English students? Great series
Skrrt skrrt. Something Sparky Sweets. Ph.D. will probably never say.
My favorite movie
This movie always hits home, always reminds me of a reluctant breakup that either party has to go through, it's so painful that one wishes to forget it ever happened.
Most of this movie was filmed in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, my old hood, which has been gentrified to the point that I can't afford to live there anymore. and I was reading an article where they interviewed the Director Michel Gondry, and even HE commented on the gentrification of the neighborhood. And the interviewer pointed out the irony that a Hollywood Director crying about rising rents when his existence there was the reason rents were rising.
Good movie tho.
"Deep or Dumb" - why is that even a question?
I think the last bit about it being their choice was a good ending but it’s muddled with the “plasticity vs flexibility” argument Wisecrack is contextualizing as with a bias towards plasticity. Just wanna note that if Joel or Clementine wanted to break apart to find happier, more compatible partners, they have as every right to do that as well. Focusing on romance here, if you are in a toxic relationship then you have every right to leave and find someone else, don’t try to make something work, especially if it’ll make you miserable. The main thing is, it’s a choice, plasticity or flexibility, it’s our choice how we want to endeavor every situation.
one of my favorite movies. i've watched it so many times that i remember almost every line of dialogue in this movie. brilliant writing by Charlie Kaufman and directing by Michel Gondry. i have a deep love for this movie that i bought a prop that was used in this movie (one of the envelopes that Mary Svevo (Kirsten Dunst) held). In my opinion one of the best movies i've seen
I think that nobody has ever called this movie dumb...
DeepSea Productions I dated a guy once who thought this movie was dumb... but he was dumb...
"Eternal Sunshine: Is It Deep or Deeper?", sounds more accurate.
BTW, how can you guys express films so easily (2:39 to 3:38)? I watch films but can't talk about them with people. can't even tell what the movie is about!
It's as deep as this post will get buried in the comments.
edit: well this was unexpected 🤔
kappakumplete
Uh oh. This is the first post I saw
Relatable
Not if I have a say!
So, very shallow?
FAIL! Oh wait..
this is my favorite movie of all time-- I've seen it more times than I can even count-- so even I'll admit that there have been some points where I've questioned how much of a "masterpiece" it is -- "is the writing as good as Kaufman's other films?" "are the characters as fleshed out?" "how are we supposed to view this relationship?" -- but at the end of the day I always, ALWAYS come back to it being my favorite film-- my favorite screenwriter and my favorite director coming together to create an inventive portrait of memory and its relationship to other people-- and I've grown even more appreciative because our favorite films SHOULD challenge us, we SHOULD feel different at different points in our life: because if it's truly our favorite, then we'll always come back to it in the end-- just like how Joel and Clementine's doomed relationship could repeat forever if they let it: **because in the end, we'll always keep chasing the high of the good memories, even if it means wallowing in the bad ones**
anyways-- so yeah-- don't mind me being a bit skeptical of you guys calling this one "Deep or Dumb"-- I just don't think it really deserves it
I love how often your videos seem to coincide with thoughts and ideas I've been having lately, and then help to elaborate on them.
last time I was this early I had an unsatisfied girlfriend
AtbinMa now she’s satisfied
He starts to fall in love with her again as they erase all the bad parts of the relationship.
"Remove the hard work of integrating negative experiences into their lives."
That was the best line.
I liked the discussion. For myself I think sometimes it's about awareness. Imagine if you had a little warning bell: "Attention! You are doing that thing you do which alienates your partner and is a childish reaction to stimulus!" Somehow I think they'll have a better chance the 2nd time. At least I hope so, for my own cyclical relationship.
Anyone who’s ever gone through a break up can feel this movie in their bones.
10:22 that quote would make for some mad rap lyrics!
spooked ya!
Great movie. Just have to watch it twice. Pause it sometimes and think about parts, and pay close attention. People complain about it being confusing but watch it a second time, and not everything is in chronological order. It keeps your mind having to be fully engaged of the timeframe of certain parts to make sense. But it’s brilliantly written and acted, just pay attention.
I just thought, when you showed him in the waiting room with a trash bag (all the things that remind him of Clementine), it seems like it might symbolize an important question: is the pain from our past junk/trash, or is it something that serves a beneficial purpose?
This is one of the most meta and epic movies ever. I wish you could do deep into analysis of Philip K. Dick novels and stories. He foreseen every single fucked up thing that's happening now.
Man, I've always had this movie in my ignored to-see list, I just watched it before watching this video, very good movie.
I was hesitant because I thought that this movie was the typical sad movie for teenagers with highly preconceived notions of love, but watching this analysis has complemented it very well, kudos
I would like to see a part 2 that examines on how memories are worth fighting for cause its proof that you lived and still exist.
The worse part about both forgetting each other is that they cannot learn from whatever they did wrong in the past.
The difference between the word "love" and the actuality of love are astounding, and I'd never go back to a time where I didn't realize how dumb it is to just believe someone when they say they love you. Actual love is not a fire, it's a plant. It does not erupt suddenly or grow with passion. It grows very slowly, with the most delicate care and attention.
Genius movie. One of my top favorites. Sure, it doesn't "resonate" with me as much now that I'm in my thirties and happily married, but it's still a great film. The script is so good.
Also, the movie is very Shakespearean: it's hinted at that the only reason Joel becomes aware of the fact he's in a memory-wiping dream is because Patrick Baby Boy tampers with the machine at the start of the procedure to try to kill/comatose Joel. If the machine had worked properly from the get-go, Joel would never have decided to "fight back" and probably would have never gone back to Montak. In other words; at the beginning of the movie, Patrick has already lost, and it's all *his* fault.
I saw the title and immediately clicked to argue how genius this film is, but glad to see everyone else is doing so for me. My second favorite movie of all time.
I'm still trying to figure out if Netflix's Maniac with Jonah Hill is good?
I had to watch it twice and I settled on the decision that I loved Manic.
Imo it's not very good.
I think it's great and I had a lot of thoughts about why under the Wisecrack Deep or Dumb video for it, if you're interested. Those thoughts were kind of theoretical, but I think they also showed that the Kaufman-esque zaniness wasn't arbitrary, there was an underlying purpose.
Highly depends on tour taste
The fact that CHVRCHES, Sufjan Stevens, Lana Del Rey and Florence + the Machine aren't among the most popular bands in the world is proof that people have bad taste.
I watched this movie at an early age and i take this movie literally that i blamed technology for messing up their lives which is true but as i get older, the meaning of the whole movie starts to sink in.
Ooooooh snap! This is one of my favorite movies ever.
Joel’s right about Valentine’s Day, regardless of your relationship status or feels
You should take a look at “the man who fell to earth” with David Bowie. It’s one of those classics that make you think and I would love to hear your take on it
The fact that this movie is REALLY about MK Ultra and the Montauk Project flew over 99% of people’s heads.
Opening question:
Just the memory? No.
The actual event? Maybe. Depends
just finished watching it and this one of the greatest movies out there. I am mind blown that deep or dumb is even a question, like whattt?!!. this movie hit my core and really captured the mysterious and uncontrollable, emotional journey of life profoundly. I mean everyone's got their own opinion, but sheesh I think you just lack the depth or life experience to appreciate this movie if you think it's dumb.
I feel like you should just do a series on Michael Gondry
16:55 Amelie is a great movie with an introspective main character. This movie has taught me how exploring a characters mind can make for a satisfying narrative.
absolutely one of the best movies ever, everything is so cute about this movie, jim carrey amazing, kate winslet super, mark ruffalo (hulk) bravo and so on. best scene probably... when clementine says : remember me...
Just tapped on the video to comment. I won’t even watch it. This is one of the best flicks I have ever seen.
"If we affirm one single moment, we thus affirm not only ourselves but all existence. For nothing is self-sufficient, neither in us ourselves nor in things; and if our soul has trembled with happiness and sounded like a harp string just once, all eternity was needed to produce this one event-and in this single moment of affirmation all eternity was called good, redeemed, justified, and affirmed."
-Nietzsche
( I hope you guys are working on an episode for Devs! Don't believe the plot twist! Laplace's Demon might as well have been real!)
The simple, sublime beautify of The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, is that we all think we're so powerful and intelligent because of our grand memory palaces and of all the things that we can remember. When the true power lies not in the hands of those that can remember, but in those that know where the delete button is.
@@pauldacon828 Lol I don't think that has much to do with the Nietzsche quote, nor is it really what's interesting about the movie
@@BayouDrank It's the meaning of the movie. Lacuna Inc. has the power, they control the delete key, and people have to come to them to remove the things they don't want to remember. That's why the technicians are free to treat people as they please, and come into their homes and be as awful as they want. They have all the power because they have the delete key. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is just a reimagining of 1984, but in a less fascist and more clinical narrative.
"History is neither fact nor fiction, but a battlefield where the victors slay the vanquished for a second time."
@@BayouDrank Oh and as for the Nietzsche quote, the same goes for evil. For everything that has caused cruelty and injustice in the world has also condemned the world, and all of eternity was also required to bring it to fruition.
@@pauldacon828 Good point, I hadn't thought of trying to read the negation equivalent of that passage. And perhaps Nietzsche specifically didn't want to, his "affirmation" being largely a response to Schopenhauer's pessimism. Seems like condemning all existence over a single moment of despair is overkill, but then why shouldn't it cut both ways?
The control/abuse aspect of the movie is interesting, but I found myself more concerned over the ethics and ramifications of the procedure in the first place. i.e. (along with the quote) it took your entire life's worth of experiences to make you what you now are, if you were to somehow remove such a large portion of memory as that of our significant other of several years, it's easy to imagine there being unforeseen loss of accumulated wisdom, for example. But maybe that's what "we" "want"? lol
David Foster Wallace illustrated the point I'm trying to get at better: "...the horrific struggle to establish
a human self results in a self whose humanity is inseparable from that horrific struggle...our endless and impossible journey toward home is in fact our home."
I love that you've used this particular lens to analyse the movie - I want to learn more about plasticity of the mind!
It makes me a bit more satisfied about them getting together at the end when they know objectively that it's doomed to fail, I sort of, but never fully understood their choice (it always felt human, but stupid). I like that they're embracing the full potential of their mind.
Last thing for me, the message that we need to incorporate our most negative experiences into ourselves to live fully is a message I need right now. Thank you Wisecrack for making me reflect 😊
Don't Deep or Dumb this. I can't stand knowing I'm dumb.
The Haunting of Hill House is a fascinating meditation on grief, trauma, secrets, parenting, and so much more. I’d love to hear your thoughts on it.
Agreed.
Really well done video! Love this film (and Charlie Kaufman's work in general). Not nearly as popular, but Synecdoche New York in the future?
Harry is so supportive by covering Lloyd's fledging movie career!
Please Please Please! do Black Mirror's
"The entire history of you" or "Crocodile"
Fernando Guzmán Lagunes entire history of you is my favorite episode of Black Mirror!
@@Mallymile What??? I didn't know we have to choose. I can't pick one, but definitely is one of my top three.
But I can tell you I hate the one with MC...
thanks for giving me solid ammo for rationalizing when i text my ex during this quarantine
I just watched this movie after a breakup, with Valentines almost coming up, and me choosing to get back to her and restart anew. I just lived the movie.
How about Avatar: The Last Airbender deep or dumb? A bit of nostalgia and ahead of the liveaction remake.
It's deep, no question. "Philosophy of" would be more intriguing, I think. Because they tackle a lot of topics but two or three main themes pop up a lot.
Love, love, love the twin peaks mural in the background!!! Absolutely love David lynch.
"Opera is an internet browser"
*I thought Opera was an Rich African American woman*
You're thinking of Oprah
@@GalGreen just some random thought
I thought it was a style of theatre that heavily emphasises the music and song aspects of the performance to the near exclusion of regular acting.
I thought Opera is where fat white women with horned helmets sing in perfect pitch, glass shattering, voice
@@YoniIsrael 🤣
To a large extent, the film is a Rorschach test that will be based on every viewer's own baggage, world view, etc. But speaking as a film, it is very intelligently done. The music, performances, effects, editing, dialogue, and cinematography all feed into the story and themes effectively. Whether or not you like that story is up to you but it is objectively a well made movie.
One of my favorite movies. Definitely deep.
Charlie Kaufman is brilliant! Have you seen Synecdoche New York?
I am calling it before I watch the video, DEEP!
8:16 no evidence that any of those "choices" are "free".
I hope that Twin Peaks blanket(?) in the background means that we'll finally get an episode on it
My spit-take of the movie, when asked to make sense of "What did I just watch?" was; Scott Pilgrim vs. The Midlife Crisis. Which got a bevy of "noice"'s from the peanut gallery in attendance. I think there's some small amount of logic to that summary too, seeing how Clementine is similar to Ramona in at least the whole Manic Pixie Dream Girl role. How both of the male protags seem to be pretty bland outside of the relationship (Scott was pretty fine with giving up the band, and was by all outward signs a pretty mediocre guitarist, plus in the movie at least he was "between jobs" [totally the name of my next band]). Even the way Scott sees the world can be pretty surreal maybe even dreamlike state; which fits well in the environment of ESotSM. Like how his fights just seem weird and out there, and gravity/time don't seem work in either of the movies. Plus, I can totally see Ramona getting just... bored of Scott, and him never moving on.