I visited Rorke's Drift in late December 2019 Was blistering hot. What the heat, dust and thirst must of been like for the Fugitives, heaven only knows.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of some of the survivors stories. My Mom was a big fan of Zulu and Zulu Dawn came out when I was about 13, so I've always been fascinated with the Zulu wars. I always wondered if anyone actually survived the Battle of Isandlwana, and now I know that more than just a handful did. Thank you again for the video, would love to go there and visit the actual locations one day, but South Africa doesn't seem in very safe place to go to right now.
Just brilliant Chris, brought it to life. If you're ever in Suffolk come and lecture at the Fisher theatre Bungay I can guarantee at least a dozen seats and Christmas is coming got an eye on merch you're post's make my week thanks. ❤
Fantastic stuff Chris! My favourite part of all my Zulu war books is the actual accounts from the soldiers, you did a great job bringing these to life👍
One of my best holiday I visited both Rorkes Drift and isandlwana 2018 fulfilling my dream of visiting something I never thought possible this year a visitor to my work place who was a relative of Gonville Bromhead I got talking to him and he was a very nice person and interesting something I never thought about happening
Great presentation Chris and I especially appreciated the drone footage which gives a wonderful perspective of what the survivors faced on that day. Well done.
They thought they were in India then fighting the poor humble peaceful Indians....but got a bloody shock.......they also learnt A damm goid lesson in the Boer war yet to come a few years later ....
Thank you Chris for those fascinating yet terrifying bits of history unknown to many…. I am afraid I will never visit this battlefield but because of Redcoat history I feel like I have already been there… Thanks again! God bless the fallen heroes on both sides of the struggle.
Thank you,as a BSA I really enjoyed this you helped make it feel more personal ,I have watched many shows on this battle ,you hit the nail on the head.(BSA) British South African)
👍 We made the French run last weekend during the battle of Arroyomolinos (28 october 1811) called "La sorpresa de Arroyomolinos" about 100km from Badajoz. It was a forgotten battle until some locals rediscovered it I believe some 15 years ago. Wikipedia calls it "Battle of Arroyo dos Molinos" "An allied force under General Rowland Hill trapped and defeated a French force under General Jean-Baptiste Girard, forcing the latter's dismissal by the Emperor Napoleon. A whole French infantry division and a brigade of cavalry were destroyed as viable fighting formations."
@@redcoathistory Incredible but we had more or less the same weather conditions (rain, wind, cold) and can now understand much better why the French were not expecting an attack. Bad for flintlock fire, bad for marching, bad for camping outside without making fire bad for cavalry attacks bad for moving cannons. Tough guys in those days.
Thank for all your wok. very interesting and your film footage is the best of the zulu war historians. Your use of drones etc really allows us to better understand the terrain and what they were up against. A request - it'd be amazing to see a slow pass of the escape route with each of the cairns explained - I believe the L shaped Cairns for example could be seen from rorkes... possibly the site of the final stand fo the 24th under Lt Anstey? I've gone over the area with google earth but would love a precise indication of these sites, including RHA battery with hanging horses for example as I'm planning to walk the trail slowly to try and get some answers to a few questions - firstly, whether it is actually possible to see the L shaped defensive position from the oskarberg...? anyhow, thanks again mate terrific content. Keep well.
Great presentation really enjoyed listening to the different accounts of the survivors, which i didn't know their were that many. Id love one day to visit that battlefield site myself. Thanks again.
Great job, again, Chris. Thanks for the referral. One can only imagine the terror and the fright these men must have experienced. The Fugitives Trail is not for the faint-hearted, and will make for some serious hiking, especially in that heat we had. Good thing old Duncan had that cold beer waiting. I have been doing this for almost 20 years now, and gravitas of the terrain and the stroy will always remain with me. The story of the men in blue jackets escaping the wrath of the assegais is a myth, I'm afraid. The blue jackets certainly did not help Coghill, Pulleine of Durnford. The Zulus simply killed every white face they could find. The crossing as Fugitives Drift must have been a nightmare. When the wahet comes through that gorge at the volume it had, that part becomes a meat grinder. I have always wondered ar Brickhill's account, and wondered if he really did see Coghill, as he must have been in Natal already. he and Mellvil were certainly not together on the Trail. And just leaving old Gamble like that.....not good.
Thanks Chris - I've been fascinated by the AZW since watching Zulu Dawn in the early 80's and visiting Isandhlwana is definitely on my bucket list. Is it possible to see the cave on the mount that one of the last survivors of the 24th hid in until discovered?
Thanks a lot. Well there is still debate a)as to whether the story of the last survivor is true and b) if so exactly which cave it is...but yes, there is a possible cave on the south side of the mountain which can still be reached if you can manage a bit of clambering on all 4s. Hope to see you there one day.
Great story telling, i would love to visit but, always a but, so far away from the NL. PS, Englishman in the NL, not Dutch. Would love to here more of this type of video please.
If possible, you should see about joining one of Ian Knight's Zulu War Battlefield tours. They are currently done through The Cultural Experience, usually around March or April. Well worth the time and expense! I travelled from Boise, Idaho (northwest U.S.) to go on one of these back in 2017. Flights from London to Johanesburg, plus all accommodations, are sorted by the tour group. It's pretty expensive, but honestly well worth it.
That’s a joke my grandad said he said what where the Zulu Warriors called. I don’t know I said. Grandad responded Wills because the generals said fire at will. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Had they survived, Coghill's Victoria Cross could easily be justified, as his was for riding back to save his friends. He'd already made it across, was still mounted, and could have ridden away. Lieutenant Higginson, the third officer with Melvill and Coghill, who managed to survive, later credited Coghill with helping to save his life. Not wishing to disrespect his memory or sacrifice, but a surviving Melvill receiving the VC is highly doubtful, especially since he lost the Queen's Colour. A good friend of mine, who's both a retired Regimental Sergeant Major and former curator at the Royal Welsh Museum put it best. He said, "Had he survived, he would have said he retired saving the Queen's Colour. To which his superiors would have replied, 'Alright, where is it?'" Like Smith-Dorrien, he wasn't in command of troops, and therefore would not be admonished for retiring from the field. Plus, as adjutant, the Colours were his responsibility. Since that was his job, it's questionable whether saving them would have warranted a VC. Having lost them, he'd likely receive a reprimand from Lord Chelmsford, if not from Colonel Glyn.
@@legionarybooks13 thanks for the response, you sort of echo my sentiments as well, you can’t give Samuel wassall the VC and not give Coghill the VC, however by todays requirements neither would even come close to being considered for the VC.
@armygrunt13 Melville stayed with the injured Coghill when they reached the bank. He also gamely clung to the heavy cumbersome Colour for miles, even trying to still cling to it when he was in the river. He failed to hold onto it, but not for want of trying. The heavy cumbersome Colour slowed him down on Fugitives Trail. He still didn't discard it. Coghill was able to catch up with Melville because of the Colour slowing Melville down. We know Coghill left Isandlwana after Melville because Coghill was overheard shouting out to Melville that Pulleine had been shot.
Another fantastic video, Chris! Essex and Smith-Dorrien's accounts completely dispel the myth regarding ammunition shortages. Smith-Dorrien is an especially amazing person. Only twenty years old at the time of Isandlwana, he still had a career spanning more than four decades ahead of him. For extreme gallantry during the Mahdist War a few years later, he became one of the first recipients of the Distinguished Service Order, which at the time was the second highest award for valour. One of the greatest military leaders of his era, it is a shame he was sidelined during the First World War, mainly because Field Marshal French hated him. During the early days of the war he both won battles and saved the lives of many British soldiers.
I expect he felt he had to undo a white feather he richly deserved. I'm also always skeptical of valor awards given to officers...by other officers, especially in the British Army.
Indeed. Smith-Dorrien gave the anecdote about quartermaster Bloomfield to show how cool and non panicking the situation was at the time. Smith-Dorrien's "you don't want a requisition now do you" quip was not answered with a "yes I do!" and Smith-Dorrien never said Bloomfield went on to refuse him to use his battalion's ammo. Yet people like Donald Morris and others ran with it and it sadly ended up being exaggerated in Zulu Dawn and the quartermasters became the pantomime villains of the story. Its very unfortunate. The fact is, the 24th Foot would still have had their initial ammo left while on the firing line. Durnfords Natal Native Mounted Contingent had only just got through their fifty rounds just before the bugle was sounded for the 24th to withdraw from the firing line, and they were firing for longer and with less composure. At Khambula, only around 35 rounds per man were fired in a 3 hour battle. There's no way the 24th Foot got through their circa 70 rounds out on the firing line.
@@lyndoncmp5751all excellent points. I hate how QM Bloomfield gets character assassinated in Zulu Dawn, especially since he's actually pretty likeable for much of the film. Sad, though, that it reinforced the stereotype about "stingy" supply officers. Logistics is among the most critical, and least appreciated aspects of warfare. And of course, everyone likes to "armchair general" Isandlwana, with many claiming they could have won the battle, had they simply formed squares around the ammunition wagons. I absolutely disagree. It wasn't until very late in the battle that Pulleine realised what he was up against (he couldn't see Durnford's forces, and Durnford wasn't communicating to him at all). I've walked the ground at Isandlwana, and to be blunt, it is shit when it comes to defence. The Zulu Right Horn had gotten behind the mountain, and got within a hundred yards of the camp's backside before they could even be spotted. Good points about Khambula, too. I've walked the ground there as well, and it is ideal for defence. From the high redoubt, Colonel Wood could see every move the Zulus made and react accordingly. Even then, he still pulled a quote from the Duke of Wellington, referring to it as, "A close run thing." Had the Zulus successfully breached the camp, which they nearly did when they overran the cattle kraal south of the redoubt, it would have gotten very messy, to say the least. This was also the same impi from Isandlwana. In their war chants they even shouted, "We are the boys of Isandlwana!" Needless to say, when I wrote my series of novels about the Anglo-Zulu War (which cover the war's entirety), Morris was NOT one of my sources. I'm guessing you're probably a fan of Ian Knight, whose "Zulu Rising" is easily the best and most detailed work on Isandlwana. His work, "Fearful Hard Times" is the only comprehensive look at the southern No. 1 Column and the Eshowe Campaign, and I rate his book on the Prince Imperial, "With His Face to the Foe" his best work ever. I've joined him on his battlefield tours, and we both gave presentations at the Clash of Empires exhibition in London this past July.
@@legionarybooks13 Excellent post. Thanks for the reply. I didn't see it until now. My You Tube notifications are up the creek. I saw I had a reply but when I clicked on it, it had gone so I thought it had been lost. Now it shows. Crazy. You've certainly gotten around. I haven't personally been to either battlefield (nobody I know has an interest) but I can get a fairly good idea of the camp area at Isandlwana from pictures and footage, especially drones now. Less so the escarpment area. I can't gauge the escarpment area well. I've mentioned it in lots of posts but I still have the opinion had Durnford stayed in camp, or ridden back with all his men immediately instead of defending the donga, acted in unison with Pulleine and had the 24th pulled in much tighter much earlier then the Zulus would have found it very difficult to get through. The gap at the Saddle where the Zulu right horn could have been covered by Durnfords 250 mounted men. Or at least they could have been relocated there quickly when the danger from that side started to appear. If they were already in the camp this shouldn't have been very difficult to accomplish quickly before it was too late. Plug the gap, so to speak. The Colonials and IMI could also have been deployed there or in front of Malabamkhosi, leaving the 24th to deal with the front, just beyond the tents (as Pulleine's early morning disposition would have been). The 24th were holding the Zulu chest at bay as it was. So were Durnfords men and the Colonials at the donga, while they had ammo. They kept the Zulu left horn pinned down until ammo shortage forced them to withdraw, although the Zulus were beginning to out flank the donga way to the south, out of rifle range. Yes I like Ian Knight's books. I have a number of them including his first one. I agree, Zulu Rising is particularly excellent. Also Mike Snook a books. That's my favourite on Isandlwana. Of course, much of it is speculation, but it's speculation based on sound logic and witness testimony from both sides. I need to brush up more on Number One Columns actions. I know some but not as much as 3rd Column. Cheers to you.
Great series of videos to see what happened to my ancestors. Sgt John Lines was KIA at Isandlwana and his brother Pt. Henry Lines survived at Rorkes Drift. We have a copy of a letter from John sent on 5th October 1878 that describes a brief skirmish at Baileys (Baillies?) Grave on 6th April 1878
@redcoathistory Yes! Ceylon as it was known at time. It's a very interesting conflict. The Redcoats eventually won, but it was costly. Tropical disease and snakebite caused more casualties than fighting. The trad Irish song ' Johnny I hardly knew ye ' is about a soldier who fought in Ceylon.
Imagine just as they packing up their defences at the camp where Essex retreated to 50 miles the zulus appeared just as their defences had been packed up 💀💀
The men then were a different breed , the bravery was impeccable and expected , why the Zulu’s thought fighting us was an option though still points to that the bravery was not all one sided .
The Battle turned while the firing line was way in front of camp, after Durnford on the British right collapsed the flank there. Wasnt much the 24th Foot could have done in time after that.
Shameful. As an US Marine NCO, I am utterly appalled at the behavior of these officers. Cowards. Whether you have a command or not, you're still an officer and the men are right to expect leadership from you. That their culture would allow such behavior is one thing and that there is so little shame says another. Unforgivable. Disgusting. Yes, I do have the "been there, done that." A command or not, you lead your men, you fight your men, and if necessary, you die with your men. When you assume a mantle of leadership there is no "he's infantry and I'm not, so he's on his own." So, there is no wonder why or how a line collapses with an army officered by such "men."
They weren't cowards. Melville, as Adjutant of 1st/24th was almost certainly ORDERED by Pulleine to save the Colour and take it to safety. Melville had brought it from the guard tent in the Saddle towards the fighting at the front of the camp. Probably in an attempt to rally, which obviously failed. We KNOW this because Melville was seen riding with the cased Colour back the other way towards the rear of the camp and the Saddle. Pulleine was still alive then, as Goghill was overheard shouting to Melville on Fugitives Trail, informing him that Pulleine had been shot. Melville gamely held onto the heavy cumbersome Colour over miles along Fugitives Trail, when it would have been much easier to discard it and ride quicker. He didnt. He even tried to keep holding onto it when he was in the river instead of swimming to safety. He then chose to remain with the injured Coghill after reaching shore. For his part, Coghill turned back to help Melville when he could have gone on to safety. Both men selflessly sacrificed themselves. Neither were cowards.
All major armies have similar tales. The unusual thing about this one is the bleakly honest accounts we possess. For an American example you may want to look at St Clair's Defeat where nearly a thousand men were slaughtered and the survivors ran through the woods for days.
The impis of Zulu warriors were instructed to attack and kill the " Redcoats ", this helped many Bluecoats get away, and of course their horses were essential.
Are there any direct accounts from the rocket battery survivors? I see these mentioned in accounts of battle, but never have specifics of how they managed to survive getting overrun.
@@redcoathistory I had to go look it up Sergeant William Milligan RA who was actually Spikes great grandfather.. Spike tells the story in his book ' it ends with magic'
@@redcoathistory I wasn't aware of this either, but Spike is the same generation as my grandad and his grandad was killed at Isandlwana, Henry Cuthbert - 5th Co Royal Engineers. As others have said, visiting is definitely on my bucket list.
after this unmitigated catastrophe chelmsford and the British army desperately needed something to regain there reputation hence all the VCs awarded at Rorke's drift.
Hi Peter, I just heard the news and am a bit shocked. Was planning on going there in December. Sadly I don’t know anywhere else nearby that is a realistic price for those of us earning rand 😭
It really didn't matter what you were wearing. It largely was a matter of who had horses and who didnt. The vast majority of escapees who survived (not including the early leavers) were on horses.
Well it certainly wasn't their worst ever defeat but it probably was their worst ever defeat at the hands of a colonial enemy. I have a film coming out soon that may cover this topic.
when they saw the size of the zulu impi in the far distance the ammo should have been taken immediately to the frontline troops officers should have been sent to make sure this happened, in addition the wagons should have been reformed in line there is no excuse for this dereliction of duty and amateurish behaviour, by there own calculations the weapons they had and the sufficiency of ammo should have been more than enough to hold the zulus at bay. also why when he heard the firing and received the reports didn't chelmsford send immediate cavalry reinforcements and follow asp with his main column.
Hello. I saw in a documentary that theorized that the Zulus took drugs prior to the battle. Do you agree with this? ruclips.net/video/SMToPPAnL_U/видео.html
iSandlwana wow! That mountain looks so sinister as if presiding over that awful slaughter. Should have been the perfect place for the Brits to win by forming up under it, but never happened.
That's on Durnford, as senior commander. Durnford arrived about 10.00 am and turned the defensive position which Pulleine had that morning into an attack and Durnford decided to disperse men out far and wide, against the orders given to the camp by Chelmsford, in his desire to chase after 'retiring' Zulus and he pressured Pulleine to support his rash venture. Durnford should have remained in the camp and acted in unison with Pulleine. He didnt. Durnford didn't even ride back to camp to confer with Pulleine when his men were defending the donga. He should have left one of his officers there at the donga and rode back to make further decisions with Pulleine.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Hello mate! Good to see you again, we talked previously remember? I agree. You also made some excellent points about how the force under Pulliene could have held out & repelled the Zulus more effectively. They had a professional & well disciplined unit after all & totalled 1,300+(even without Durnford). There were c.579 1/24th men & 183 of the 2/24th present, not just 600 as some suggest. I remember reading a military history magazine that claimed that this battle was the battle that Chelmsford had actually expected. It was being fought by officers that he had trusted in their ability & troops that knew S.Africa well. That was why there was the initial disbelief of LC that the camp had been taken. The battle had been mismanaged & that's where Col.Durnford comes in. Strikes me that there was already an animus between himself & the GOC before the battle began. Pride & the pursuit of personal glory were unfortunately at play here & ultimately led to the fall of the camp. People who say the Brits were doomed from the start as soon as the impi mobilized forget the success of the 1st 2-3h of the fight. The imperial Co.s literally smashed the Zulu advance (with the Martini-Henri), so much so that many testified they were at the point of giving up: "..we never thought we would beat the English & were surprised at how well they fought" These testimonies were gained from Bertram Mitford in 1882 when he questioned those who fought at iSandlwana to gain information as to what happened. "The great indunas were on the hill to the north of the camp, just below a number of soldiers were engaging the umCijo regiment which was being driven back. One of these chiefs ran down from the hill & rallied them, calling out that they would get the whole impi beaten & must come on. Then they all shouted 'Usutu!' & waving their shields charged the soldiers.." (The Red Soldier 1979) Suffice it to say that the impi sustained such terrible casualties from the hands of the 24th & others that Cetchwayo would say, aghast that "An Assegai has been thrust into the belly of the nation". Cochrane*, one of the officers that gained safety later computed the Zulu losses to be between 2,000-2,500. (*32nd Light Infantry)
@@mjpope1012 Ah yes I remember now. Of course. Apologies for the late reply. Only just seen the reply. My You Tube notifications are going haywire. I totally agree. The 24th Foot were indeed keeping the Zulu chest at bay and the chest was making no progress when it was being hammered by the redcoat firing line. To be fair though, the Zulu left horn was also making no headway against Durnfords two troops and the Colonials at the donga....... while Durnfords men had ammo. Obviously when Durnfords men ran out they had to withdraw and it was THIS that changed the situation of the 24th. Pulleine could see Durnfords withdraw and was well aware there was nothing to stop the Zulu left horn from rushing unopposed towards the camp so he had little choice but to have the bugle sound retreat to the 24th. Otherwise the Zulu left horn would have got in behind them and cut them off. This 24th Foot withdraw from the firing line was the only reason why the Zulu chest got moving again. If Durnford remained at the donga with ammo holding back the left horn then the 24th wouldn't have retreated. On the other hand it's all academic as the Zulu right horn was making its way round the back of Isandlwana Hill to appear at the rear of the camp via the Saddle area. However, had a much tighter defensive position been taken up by all units in the beginning then not only would the Zulus have faced even more concentrated British fire but British forces (Durnfords men as an example) could have quickly been relocated to the Saddle to plug the gap there when the threat began to appear. This shouldn't have been too difficult to do if everyone was already in the camp, not a mile or so out in front of it. Cheers my friend. Good to see you again.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Ha Ha! Yes no problem YT can act like that for no rhyme or reason. Good to see your point of view on these pages! Yes, Anthony Durnford in my opinion is responsible I'm afraid for many reasons, not least b/c he held seniority over the timid & gentlemanly Henry Pulliene. But moreover, Col D pushed the fight forward, forcing the 24th etc to extend their formations WITH his, therefore turning what should have been a solid defence into an attack. In my view he is guilty of disregarding Chelmsford's general orders (He had the manual printed in Nov'78) stating 'Draw in your forces in case of attack. Defend the camp'. As a result we know Lord C had to endure the lashings of a savage press & never quite shook off the blame for iSandlwana. Cheers.
@@mjpope1012 Again I agree with you in that Durnford ignored both the orders he himself was given and those given to Pulleine. He was only ordered by Chelmsford to get himself and his men to the Isandlwana camp at once. Nowhere else. Chelmsford also, as you say, ordered Pulleine to keep his forces drawn in and act only on the defensive. This is exactly what Pulleine did do that morning until Durnford arrived around 10.00 and started sending forces out. At around 8.00 am there was a false alarm after thousands of Zulus were seen to the northeast. Pulleine immediate had the 24th Foot stood to just in front of the tents, in case of attack. He did not send them out here, there and everywhere. We know from this that Pulleine followed his orders and acted on the defensive. The bizarre thing about Durnford is that when he arrived he told Pulleine he wasn't going to remain there or take charge. Yet he started giving orders. He tried to interfere with Pulleine's orders. He tried to send two companies of the 24th Foot out and Pulleine and Melville had to repeatedly remind him that their orders were to act on the defensive and protect the camp. Durnford then sent 4 of the 5 troops of his Natal Native Mounted Contingent out (the 5th troop was at the rear escorting his baggage wagons to Isandlwana). Durnford sent the rocket battery and it's Natal Native Contingent miles out and his also sent some NNC up onto the escarpment. As he rode off out he turned to Pulleine and told him he expected to be supported if he got into difficulties. Pulleine was compromised from that moment on. These decisions by Durnford were not "defensive" and "keeping forces drawn in". I cannot believe how people still excuse his actions. Even when he was at the donga defending against the Zulu left horn Durnford, as senior commander, never kept his eye on the overall battle, he never rode back to confer with Pulleine and plan for the next course of action. He just remained at the donga fighting his own separate battle, oblivious to the rest of it. It was a poor location to be tactically aware of the general battle. You are right in what you said before. Chelmsford and Durnford had issues, Durnford was disappointed to be left in reserve out of the picture for the main advance into Zululand so when he was ordered up to Isandlwana he took advantage of it and most definitely had an almost obsessive desire to seek action and grab it by the horns. When news came in that the Zulus were retiring, he wasn't going to let them get away. He went after them. He wanted action. If only he just sat tight and defended!!!!
Visited SA as a young man. Have a lot of respect for both the British soldiers and the Zulu warriors. The 1964 movie is a true classic. Is it accurate?
I guess we’ll never be certain. I think Brickhill’s account is probably the most honest as he wasn’t in the army and wasn’t concerned about his career.
Yes they would have, as soon as the decision was made by the senior commander there to send forces out. It would have been irrelevant what regiments were there. The 24th Foot did as much as any regiment could have.
I worked as a redcoat extra on the film in 1979 for 3 weeks…..know a lot of the history…..it was filmed on the 100th anniversary…..ps you’re talking nonsense…the only survivors were navy artillery men who were allowed to survive because Cetshwayo told his warriors to ONLY kill anyone in a redcoat…..the gunners wore navy blue…..shows how disciplined the Zulus were….ps…on the movie there was ACTUALLY an old Zulu man who was a spear carrier boy at the ACTUAL battle!…..also we had one extra actually killed on the movie and they kept the scene in the film….anyone interested can ask me as studied it for a long time
Hi David. Im sure you are a nice guy but I am afraid as soon as someone says something like "you are talking nonsense" I no longer take them seriously. What exactly is nonsense? Many people in blue and even civilian clothes were kiled by the warriors. Perhaps you should read a little more yourself before being rude and offensive to strangers online. The biggest factor in survival was access to a horse - not the colour of their uniforms.
@@redcoathistory I’m sure you’re a nice guy too, but several things you state are simply not true…….maybe you should do a bit more research as your quality is good but not all the content
@@daviddenham1511 David - I know we would get on over a beer but you still haven’t actually pointed out any mistakes. Like most people who are on uncertain ground you don’t offer facts or evidence 🤷🏼♂️ it’s a real shame. Maybe make your own video about it? I’ll happily watch. Keep in touch and all the best.
@@redcoathistory what uncertain ground or lack of evidence?…I have actually worked on the real battle sight, spoken to local experts and historians, had conversations with historical advisors on site, visited the Pietermaritzburg Museum where all the artefacts and records are kept and as mentioned even met a real living (at the time) survivor and spoke to him!……I in fact lived in SA for 11 years……whereas you have probably read a few books, so a patronising response from you is uncalled for. Ps…..as an “expert”, what are your credentials???……..hmmm
@@daviddenham1511 Ha ha David still you don't give any information about what the mistakes are. In fact you only seem to wish to fight for the sake of it - very sad really. Being an extra on the film is good for dinner party chit chat - it does not make you an expert on the battle. In answer to your question...I am a qualified battlefield guide to the Zulu War, I live in South Africa (for over 15 years so far) and have written a book on the conflict. Anyway you are clearly not the sort of man I need engage with further. All the best, Chris
Why didn't they overplay Nyezane as well then? It took place that same day. Even more one sided than Rorkes Drift. It's hardly talked about, and wasnt even talked about much back then.
Remember Blood River,,,that's were some 400 + Voortrekker Boers with Mussle Loader Rifles faced +- 15 000 Zulus , killed +- 3000 with only one person slightly wounded in his hand , And ,,,they were only simple Farmers... Appreciate your video 😊
I visited Rorke's Drift in late December 2019 Was blistering hot. What the heat, dust and thirst must of been like for the Fugitives, heaven only knows.
Nothing like some cool wool heavy knits!
To be fair, wool is a very breathable material. So itll be bad but not as bad as what youre thinking.
@@caydenr2848that’s very true.
@@caydenr2848 Fact Check: True, but it couldn't be too comfy.
@@caydenr2848sounds like a nightmare to me. If you want breathable then surely cotton
What terrifying experience for the escapees. The stuff of nightmares. Thank you for these stories of the survivers Chris. Regards from Canada 🇨🇦
Thanks Keith. Yes that would certainly be an experience one would never forget.
They ran for their bloody lives ...not even thinking about their beloved England.... the British wanted war with the Zulus ...
Thanks for the detailed explanation of some of the survivors stories. My Mom was a big fan of Zulu and Zulu Dawn came out when I was about 13, so I've always been fascinated with the Zulu wars. I always wondered if anyone actually survived the Battle of Isandlwana, and now I know that more than just a handful did. Thank you again for the video, would love to go there and visit the actual locations one day, but South Africa doesn't seem in very safe place to go to right now.
Perfectly safe, use a guide who knows the area. The media portray SA very differently to our lived experience
Thanks Chris. Always enjoy AZW content. You've taught me a lot. Cheers.
That's great to hear - thanks a lot. Got more coming up soon hopefully.
Just brilliant Chris, brought it to life. If you're ever in Suffolk come and lecture at the Fisher theatre Bungay I can guarantee at least a dozen seats and Christmas is coming got an eye on merch you're post's make my week thanks. ❤
Nice one - would love to come through.
Fantastic stuff Chris! My favourite part of all my Zulu war books is the actual accounts from the soldiers, you did a great job bringing these to life👍
That's great to know, thanks a lot.
I walked the Fugitives' Trail about 15 years ago. Fascinating experience. We had the benefit of a rubber dinghy to get across the Buffalo River.
One of my best holiday I visited both Rorkes Drift and isandlwana 2018 fulfilling my dream of visiting something I never thought possible this year a visitor to my work place who was a relative of Gonville Bromhead I got talking to him and he was a very nice person and interesting something I never thought about happening
This is awesome setting it up on the big screen tV as I am home
Great presentation Chris and I especially appreciated the drone footage which gives a wonderful perspective of what the survivors faced on that day. Well done.
Thanks a lot. Yeah those aerial shots really add a new and fascinating perspective. Thanks
Fantastic awesome fascinating survivor reports epic stuff thankyou
They thought they were in India then fighting the poor humble peaceful Indians....but got a bloody shock.......they also learnt A damm goid lesson in the Boer war yet to come a few years later ....
This was so good I watched it again , I am promoting this channel all over my Facebook and my little channels
That's great to hear - thanks Bill
Thank you Chris for those fascinating yet terrifying bits of history unknown to many…. I am afraid I will never visit this battlefield but because of Redcoat history I feel like I have already been there… Thanks again! God bless the fallen heroes on both sides of the struggle.
Thanks a lot. Appreciate your words and thoughts.
Very well told mate and always kept glued.
Thanks mate
Excellent way of giving a level of perspective for what that must have been like.
Would make a pretty good VR experience.
Thank you,as a BSA I really enjoyed this you helped make it feel more personal ,I have watched many shows on this battle ,you hit the nail on the head.(BSA) British South African)
Thanks Paul. Glad you enjoyed it
Visited and site was really eerie and quite.
Well done Chris👍👍👍
You’re right - your newsletter and your ebook are fascinating.
Thanks Richard.
Great stuff...thank you sir...
Thanks Chris
👍
We made the French run last weekend during the battle of Arroyomolinos (28 october 1811) called "La sorpresa de Arroyomolinos" about 100km from Badajoz. It was a forgotten battle until some locals rediscovered it I believe some 15 years ago.
Wikipedia calls it "Battle of Arroyo dos Molinos"
"An allied force under General Rowland Hill trapped and defeated a French force under General Jean-Baptiste Girard, forcing the latter's dismissal by the Emperor Napoleon. A whole French infantry division and a brigade of cavalry were destroyed as viable fighting formations."
Thanks mate - a great story and a battle that is finally being recognised.
@@redcoathistory
Incredible but we had more or less the same weather conditions (rain, wind, cold) and can now understand much better why the French were not expecting an attack. Bad for flintlock fire, bad for marching, bad for camping outside without making fire bad for cavalry attacks bad for moving cannons.
Tough guys in those days.
A story with so many vignettes, great yarn
Thank you Chris.
Cheers, Ian,
Nice to hear accounts of people who survived this battle.
Excellent video Chris, very informative! Thank you.
Exciting video. Thanks Parkison Pasha.
Ha ha thanks a lot.
Superb Chris, loved it
Thanks mate
By the look of the terrain my choice of not trying the trail turned out to be one of my wisest decisions . Brilliantly told Chris 👌👍 nice one
I have to get out there one day to see the place.
Been reading about it for nearly 30 years…
It’s amazing. I’ve been many time and I still get goosebumps
Thank for all your wok. very interesting and your film footage is the best of the zulu war historians. Your use of drones etc really allows us to better understand the terrain and what they were up against. A request - it'd be amazing to see a slow pass of the escape route with each of the cairns explained - I believe the L shaped Cairns for example could be seen from rorkes... possibly the site of the final stand fo the 24th under Lt Anstey? I've gone over the area with google earth but would love a precise indication of these sites, including RHA battery with hanging horses for example as I'm planning to walk the trail slowly to try and get some answers to a few questions - firstly, whether it is actually possible to see the L shaped defensive position from the oskarberg...? anyhow, thanks again mate terrific content. Keep well.
Thanks, Redcoat History.
Great presentation really enjoyed listening to the different accounts of the survivors, which i didn't know their were that many. Id love one day to visit that battlefield site myself. Thanks again.
Thanks Colin. Maybe see you there one day!
Bloody brilliant!
Glad you enjoyed it,
Nicely done!
Great job, again, Chris. Thanks for the referral. One can only imagine the terror and the fright these men must have experienced. The Fugitives Trail is not for the faint-hearted, and will make for some serious hiking, especially in that heat we had. Good thing old Duncan had that cold beer waiting. I have been doing this for almost 20 years now, and gravitas of the terrain and the stroy will always remain with me. The story of the men in blue jackets escaping the wrath of the assegais is a myth, I'm afraid. The blue jackets certainly did not help Coghill, Pulleine of Durnford. The Zulus simply killed every white face they could find. The crossing as Fugitives Drift must have been a nightmare. When the wahet comes through that gorge at the volume it had, that part becomes a meat grinder. I have always wondered ar Brickhill's account, and wondered if he really did see Coghill, as he must have been in Natal already. he and Mellvil were certainly not together on the Trail. And just leaving old Gamble like that.....not good.
Thanks Johann. Always appreciate you knowledge and input.
Another great one 👍
Thankyou. Glad you found it interesting.
Thanks Chris - I've been fascinated by the AZW since watching Zulu Dawn in the early 80's and visiting Isandhlwana is definitely on my bucket list. Is it possible to see the cave on the mount that one of the last survivors of the 24th hid in until discovered?
Thanks a lot. Well there is still debate a)as to whether the story of the last survivor is true and b) if so exactly which cave it is...but yes, there is a possible cave on the south side of the mountain which can still be reached if you can manage a bit of clambering on all 4s. Hope to see you there one day.
Great story telling, i would love to visit but, always a but, so far away from the NL. PS, Englishman in the NL, not Dutch. Would love to here more of this type of video please.
If possible, you should see about joining one of Ian Knight's Zulu War Battlefield tours. They are currently done through The Cultural Experience, usually around March or April. Well worth the time and expense! I travelled from Boise, Idaho (northwest U.S.) to go on one of these back in 2017. Flights from London to Johanesburg, plus all accommodations, are sorted by the tour group. It's pretty expensive, but honestly well worth it.
Exceptional presentation. Always look forward to these videos. The battlefield and country side looks very dry like a natural disaster has accord.
When I visited in January 91 the country was green as green looking completely different. Zulu land is so beautiful. Excellent video Chris 👏👍
Thanks Peter - time of year certainly makes a big difference to how it looks. Hope you are well.
He most probably went there in winter
This was fantastic. I love hearing the first hand accounts of stuff like this. 🍻
Thanks a lot - I have a few others on my channel like this that you may enjoy plus plenty more in the pipeline. Cheers and keep in touch.
Great history. Thanks
The name of the first Zulu warrior shot was Will. Michael Cain said take aim and fire at Will 🤟🏴
That’s a joke my grandad said he said what where the Zulu Warriors called. I don’t know I said. Grandad responded Wills because the generals said fire at will. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hahaha. That was bad. 😂
Great video, thank you. Really looking forward to the Melville/Coghill video and your thoughts on if they should have won a VC.
Thanks a lot. Not sure when that will be but hopefully before Christmas 👍🏼
Had they survived, Coghill's Victoria Cross could easily be justified, as his was for riding back to save his friends. He'd already made it across, was still mounted, and could have ridden away. Lieutenant Higginson, the third officer with Melvill and Coghill, who managed to survive, later credited Coghill with helping to save his life. Not wishing to disrespect his memory or sacrifice, but a surviving Melvill receiving the VC is highly doubtful, especially since he lost the Queen's Colour. A good friend of mine, who's both a retired Regimental Sergeant Major and former curator at the Royal Welsh Museum put it best. He said, "Had he survived, he would have said he retired saving the Queen's Colour. To which his superiors would have replied, 'Alright, where is it?'" Like Smith-Dorrien, he wasn't in command of troops, and therefore would not be admonished for retiring from the field. Plus, as adjutant, the Colours were his responsibility. Since that was his job, it's questionable whether saving them would have warranted a VC. Having lost them, he'd likely receive a reprimand from Lord Chelmsford, if not from Colonel Glyn.
@@legionarybooks13 thanks for the response, you sort of echo my sentiments as well, you can’t give Samuel wassall the VC and not give Coghill the VC, however by todays requirements neither would even come close to being considered for the VC.
@armygrunt13
Melville stayed with the injured Coghill when they reached the bank. He also gamely clung to the heavy cumbersome Colour for miles, even trying to still cling to it when he was in the river. He failed to hold onto it, but not for want of trying.
The heavy cumbersome Colour slowed him down on Fugitives Trail. He still didn't discard it. Coghill was able to catch up with Melville because of the Colour slowing Melville down. We know Coghill left Isandlwana after Melville because Coghill was overheard shouting out to Melville that Pulleine had been shot.
Another fantastic video, Chris! Essex and Smith-Dorrien's accounts completely dispel the myth regarding ammunition shortages. Smith-Dorrien is an especially amazing person. Only twenty years old at the time of Isandlwana, he still had a career spanning more than four decades ahead of him. For extreme gallantry during the Mahdist War a few years later, he became one of the first recipients of the Distinguished Service Order, which at the time was the second highest award for valour. One of the greatest military leaders of his era, it is a shame he was sidelined during the First World War, mainly because Field Marshal French hated him. During the early days of the war he both won battles and saved the lives of many British soldiers.
Cheers James. Yes all good points 👍🏼 hope you are well. Speak soon
I expect he felt he had to undo a white feather he richly deserved.
I'm also always skeptical of valor awards given to officers...by other officers, especially in the British Army.
Indeed. Smith-Dorrien gave the anecdote about quartermaster Bloomfield to show how cool and non panicking the situation was at the time. Smith-Dorrien's "you don't want a requisition now do you" quip was not answered with a "yes I do!" and Smith-Dorrien never said Bloomfield went on to refuse him to use his battalion's ammo.
Yet people like Donald Morris and others ran with it and it sadly ended up being exaggerated in Zulu Dawn and the quartermasters became the pantomime villains of the story.
Its very unfortunate.
The fact is, the 24th Foot would still have had their initial ammo left while on the firing line. Durnfords Natal Native Mounted Contingent had only just got through their fifty rounds just before the bugle was sounded for the 24th to withdraw from the firing line, and they were firing for longer and with less composure.
At Khambula, only around 35 rounds per man were fired in a 3 hour battle.
There's no way the 24th Foot got through their circa 70 rounds out on the firing line.
@@lyndoncmp5751all excellent points. I hate how QM Bloomfield gets character assassinated in Zulu Dawn, especially since he's actually pretty likeable for much of the film. Sad, though, that it reinforced the stereotype about "stingy" supply officers. Logistics is among the most critical, and least appreciated aspects of warfare.
And of course, everyone likes to "armchair general" Isandlwana, with many claiming they could have won the battle, had they simply formed squares around the ammunition wagons. I absolutely disagree. It wasn't until very late in the battle that Pulleine realised what he was up against (he couldn't see Durnford's forces, and Durnford wasn't communicating to him at all). I've walked the ground at Isandlwana, and to be blunt, it is shit when it comes to defence. The Zulu Right Horn had gotten behind the mountain, and got within a hundred yards of the camp's backside before they could even be spotted.
Good points about Khambula, too. I've walked the ground there as well, and it is ideal for defence. From the high redoubt, Colonel Wood could see every move the Zulus made and react accordingly. Even then, he still pulled a quote from the Duke of Wellington, referring to it as, "A close run thing." Had the Zulus successfully breached the camp, which they nearly did when they overran the cattle kraal south of the redoubt, it would have gotten very messy, to say the least. This was also the same impi from Isandlwana. In their war chants they even shouted, "We are the boys of Isandlwana!"
Needless to say, when I wrote my series of novels about the Anglo-Zulu War (which cover the war's entirety), Morris was NOT one of my sources. I'm guessing you're probably a fan of Ian Knight, whose "Zulu Rising" is easily the best and most detailed work on Isandlwana. His work, "Fearful Hard Times" is the only comprehensive look at the southern No. 1 Column and the Eshowe Campaign, and I rate his book on the Prince Imperial, "With His Face to the Foe" his best work ever. I've joined him on his battlefield tours, and we both gave presentations at the Clash of Empires exhibition in London this past July.
@@legionarybooks13
Excellent post. Thanks for the reply. I didn't see it until now. My You Tube notifications are up the creek. I saw I had a reply but when I clicked on it, it had gone so I thought it had been lost. Now it shows. Crazy.
You've certainly gotten around. I haven't personally been to either battlefield (nobody I know has an interest) but I can get a fairly good idea of the camp area at Isandlwana from pictures and footage, especially drones now. Less so the escarpment area. I can't gauge the escarpment area well.
I've mentioned it in lots of posts but I still have the opinion had Durnford stayed in camp, or ridden back with all his men immediately instead of defending the donga, acted in unison with Pulleine and had the 24th pulled in much tighter much earlier then the Zulus would have found it very difficult to get through. The gap at the Saddle where the Zulu right horn could have been covered by Durnfords 250 mounted men. Or at least they could have been relocated there quickly when the danger from that side started to appear. If they were already in the camp this shouldn't have been very difficult to accomplish quickly before it was too late. Plug the gap, so to speak. The Colonials and IMI could also have been deployed there or in front of Malabamkhosi, leaving the 24th to deal with the front, just beyond the tents (as Pulleine's early morning disposition would have been). The 24th were holding the Zulu chest at bay as it was. So were Durnfords men and the Colonials at the donga, while they had ammo. They kept the Zulu left horn pinned down until ammo shortage forced them to withdraw, although the Zulus were beginning to out flank the donga way to the south, out of rifle range.
Yes I like Ian Knight's books. I have a number of them including his first one. I agree, Zulu Rising is particularly excellent. Also Mike Snook a books. That's my favourite on Isandlwana. Of course, much of it is speculation, but it's speculation based on sound logic and witness testimony from both sides.
I need to brush up more on Number One Columns actions. I know some but not as much as 3rd Column.
Cheers to you.
Great series of videos to see what happened to my ancestors. Sgt John Lines was KIA at Isandlwana and his brother Pt. Henry Lines survived at Rorkes Drift. We have a copy of a letter from John sent on 5th October 1878 that describes a brief skirmish at Baileys (Baillies?) Grave on 6th April 1878
It was amazing anyone survived. It must have been scary the speed and violence of the attack
Thanks for this video. It's difficult to hear first hand accounts about Isandlwana.
Great! I look forward to the Zulu side of things.
Brilliant. Hope you enjoy it. More to come in a few weeks
Great job Chris!!
Ngiyabonga mfowethu!
I've found it amazing how fast territory is covered when painful exsanguination is on ones keister...
Triple word score😉
Great work Chris.
Great thanks a lot. I really enjoyed making this
Splendid episode sir.
Many thanks!
The brits wanted it ! And they got it!!!
You do know ‘the Brits’ won the war?
Yes i do, so does every one! That's not the point!@@redcoathistory
Bleeding Hell Fire ol boy we didn't stand a chance they attacked at tea time.
Thanks for the video.
Constructive criticism:
slow the reading pace down;
try pausing the videos to allow link up with the audio.
Thanks again.
Great video!
I would love to see some videos on the Kandyan Wars
Thanks a lot. Those were Sri Lanka right? I’ll be honest, not on my radar but maybe eventually I can read up on them 👍🏼
@redcoathistory Yes! Ceylon as it was known at time. It's a very interesting conflict. The Redcoats eventually won, but it was costly. Tropical disease and snakebite caused more casualties than fighting.
The trad Irish song ' Johnny I hardly knew ye ' is about a soldier who fought in Ceylon.
@@sharonrigs7999 thanks a lot. I’ll try and find out more
They survive by running like hell 😅😂😅😂
THEY RAN
Imagine just as they packing up their defences at the camp where Essex retreated to 50 miles the zulus appeared just as their defences had been packed up 💀💀
hi chris, i arrived in Dundee today, met Pat. I am up for a fugitives walk if you have time,.
Hi Cherry - I’m afraid I’m not in the Country right now. I hope you have a wonderful time and pls tell Pat I said hi.
The men then were a different breed , the bravery was impeccable and expected , why the Zulu’s thought fighting us was an option though still points to that the bravery was not all one sided .
Often wondered if it would have been better to have got the men on to the side of that mountain and made a stand there.
The Battle turned while the firing line was way in front of camp, after Durnford on the British right collapsed the flank there. Wasnt much the 24th Foot could have done in time after that.
Captain E.Essex said he had a revolver, but would it have been in working order after his soaking in the river?
Epic video
Thanks a lot
Shameful.
As an US Marine NCO, I am utterly appalled at the behavior of these officers. Cowards.
Whether you have a command or not, you're still an officer and the men are right to expect leadership from you.
That their culture would allow such behavior is one thing and that there is so little shame says another. Unforgivable. Disgusting.
Yes, I do have the "been there, done that."
A command or not, you lead your men, you fight your men, and if necessary, you die with your men.
When you assume a mantle of leadership there is no "he's infantry and I'm not, so he's on his own."
So, there is no wonder why or how a line collapses with an army officered by such "men."
They weren't cowards. Melville, as Adjutant of 1st/24th was almost certainly ORDERED by Pulleine to save the Colour and take it to safety. Melville had brought it from the guard tent in the Saddle towards the fighting at the front of the camp. Probably in an attempt to rally, which obviously failed. We KNOW this because Melville was seen riding with the cased Colour back the other way towards the rear of the camp and the Saddle. Pulleine was still alive then, as Goghill was overheard shouting to Melville on Fugitives Trail, informing him that Pulleine had been shot.
Melville gamely held onto the heavy cumbersome Colour over miles along Fugitives Trail, when it would have been much easier to discard it and ride quicker. He didnt. He even tried to keep holding onto it when he was in the river instead of swimming to safety. He then chose to remain with the injured Coghill after reaching shore.
For his part, Coghill turned back to help Melville when he could have gone on to safety.
Both men selflessly sacrificed themselves.
Neither were cowards.
All major armies have similar tales. The unusual thing about this one is the bleakly honest accounts we possess.
For an American example you may want to look at St Clair's Defeat where nearly a thousand men were slaughtered and the survivors ran through the woods for days.
The impis of Zulu warriors were instructed to attack and kill the " Redcoats ", this helped many Bluecoats get away, and of course their horses were essential.
Looking at the website, it seems Rorke's drift hotel has ceased operating and is now some kind of local education centre.
Yes, that's a recent and shocking development. A real shame as the other hotels near to the battlefields are generally outside of most peoples budget.
Great video, just found you
Thats a humongous tree trunk in the background.
Are there any direct accounts from the rocket battery survivors? I see these mentioned in accounts of battle, but never have specifics of how they managed to survive getting overrun.
Hi - yes there are a couple at least. Most famous is Captain Nourse of the NNC who was attached to the Rocket Battery.
There were a number of Artillery enlisted and NCO's who escaped including Spike Milligan's Grandfather.
I didn't know about Spike Milligan's grandfather - will have to look him up. Do you know his name?
@@redcoathistory I had to go look it up Sergeant William Milligan RA who was actually Spikes great grandfather.. Spike tells the story in his book ' it ends with magic'
@@redcoathistory I wasn't aware of this either, but Spike is the same generation as my grandad and his grandad was killed at Isandlwana, Henry Cuthbert - 5th Co Royal Engineers. As others have said, visiting is definitely on my bucket list.
Some bad news - Rorkesdrift Hotel had been closed. It had been sold to the Khula Foundation. Ross and Shane have already left. Sad state of affairs.
Very sad to hear that. It was the only place I could afford nearby. Hope all is well with you. See you soon.
And boy did they pay for it!
after this unmitigated catastrophe chelmsford and the British army desperately needed something to regain there reputation hence all the VCs awarded at Rorke's drift.
rorkes drift hotel is closed, now an education centre.
Hi Peter, I just heard the news and am a bit shocked. Was planning on going there in December. Sadly I don’t know anywhere else nearby that is a realistic price for those of us earning rand 😭
The zulu chief told his men to kill the redcoats
The ones in blue managed to escape!
Hi. There is some truth to this tho in the frenzy of the moment I don’t think a blue jacket would stop a Zulu from killing you.
It really didn't matter what you were wearing. It largely was a matter of who had horses and who didnt. The vast majority of escapees who survived (not including the early leavers) were on horses.
I am always amazed when isandlwana is called the British armies worst ever defeat... 1,800 men against over 20,000 drugged up zulus!!! 😳
Well it certainly wasn't their worst ever defeat but it probably was their worst ever defeat at the hands of a colonial enemy. I have a film coming out soon that may cover this topic.
Perfidious Abion - W. Shakespeare
Wow you can quote Shakespeare - congrats!
... except Shakespeare never wrote 'perfidious Albion' in any of his works.
when they saw the size of the zulu impi in the far distance the ammo should have been taken immediately to the frontline troops officers should have been sent to make sure this happened, in addition the wagons should have been reformed in line there is no excuse for this dereliction of duty and amateurish behaviour, by there own calculations the weapons they had and the sufficiency of ammo should have been more than enough to hold the zulus at bay. also why when he heard the firing and received the reports didn't chelmsford send immediate cavalry reinforcements and follow asp with his main column.
Did any enlisted men survive, or just officers?
Yes those with horses including VC winner Private Wassal.
Hello. I saw in a documentary that theorized that the Zulus took drugs prior to the battle. Do you agree with this?
ruclips.net/video/SMToPPAnL_U/видео.html
Mostly officers on horses then?!
How did they survive? They ran away
Just like you would have
Anyone interested in seeing a moving car in this film ?
Can't see anyone attempting to 'replicate' it by running the ground. Could have walked it once then run to see what it felt like..
An experienced trail runner wouldn't have a problem running it - much easier when not being chased by Zulu warriors.
I've read their. Was one man. Hid. In. Cave. Who killed about 50 before. Himself. Was killed by. Zulus. Firing into cave
iSandlwana wow! That mountain looks so sinister as if presiding over that awful slaughter. Should have been the perfect place for the Brits to win by forming up under it, but never happened.
That's on Durnford, as senior commander. Durnford arrived about 10.00 am and turned the defensive position which Pulleine had that morning into an attack and Durnford decided to disperse men out far and wide, against the orders given to the camp by Chelmsford, in his desire to chase after 'retiring' Zulus and he pressured Pulleine to support his rash venture.
Durnford should have remained in the camp and acted in unison with Pulleine. He didnt. Durnford didn't even ride back to camp to confer with Pulleine when his men were defending the donga. He should have left one of his officers there at the donga and rode back to make further decisions with Pulleine.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Hello mate! Good to see you again, we talked previously remember? I agree. You also made some excellent points about how the force under Pulliene could have held out & repelled the Zulus more effectively.
They had a professional & well disciplined unit after all & totalled 1,300+(even without Durnford). There were c.579 1/24th men & 183 of the 2/24th present, not just 600 as some suggest.
I remember reading a military history magazine that claimed that this battle was the battle that Chelmsford had actually expected. It was being fought by officers that he had trusted in their ability & troops that knew S.Africa well. That was why there was the initial disbelief of LC that the camp had been taken. The battle had been mismanaged & that's where Col.Durnford comes in. Strikes me that there was already an animus between himself & the GOC before the battle began. Pride & the pursuit of personal glory were unfortunately at play here & ultimately led to the fall of the camp.
People who say the Brits were doomed from the start as soon as the impi mobilized forget the success of the 1st 2-3h of the fight. The imperial Co.s literally smashed the Zulu advance (with the Martini-Henri), so much so that many testified they were at the point of giving up: "..we never thought we would beat the English & were surprised at how well they fought" These testimonies were gained from Bertram Mitford in 1882 when he questioned those who fought at iSandlwana to gain information as to what happened.
"The great indunas were on the hill to the north of the camp, just below a number of soldiers were engaging the umCijo regiment which was being driven back. One of these chiefs ran down from the hill & rallied them, calling out that they would get the whole impi beaten & must come on. Then they all shouted 'Usutu!' & waving their shields charged the soldiers.."
(The Red Soldier 1979)
Suffice it to say that the impi sustained such terrible casualties from the hands of the 24th & others that Cetchwayo would say, aghast that "An Assegai has been thrust into the belly of the nation".
Cochrane*, one of the officers that gained safety later computed the Zulu losses to be between 2,000-2,500.
(*32nd Light Infantry)
@@mjpope1012
Ah yes I remember now. Of course. Apologies for the late reply. Only just seen the reply. My You Tube notifications are going haywire.
I totally agree. The 24th Foot were indeed keeping the Zulu chest at bay and the chest was making no progress when it was being hammered by the redcoat firing line. To be fair though, the Zulu left horn was also making no headway against Durnfords two troops and the Colonials at the donga....... while Durnfords men had ammo. Obviously when Durnfords men ran out they had to withdraw and it was THIS that changed the situation of the 24th. Pulleine could see Durnfords withdraw and was well aware there was nothing to stop the Zulu left horn from rushing unopposed towards the camp so he had little choice but to have the bugle sound retreat to the 24th. Otherwise the Zulu left horn would have got in behind them and cut them off. This 24th Foot withdraw from the firing line was the only reason why the Zulu chest got moving again. If Durnford remained at the donga with ammo holding back the left horn then the 24th wouldn't have retreated.
On the other hand it's all academic as the Zulu right horn was making its way round the back of Isandlwana Hill to appear at the rear of the camp via the Saddle area. However, had a much tighter defensive position been taken up by all units in the beginning then not only would the Zulus have faced even more concentrated British fire but British forces (Durnfords men as an example) could have quickly been relocated to the Saddle to plug the gap there when the threat began to appear. This shouldn't have been too difficult to do if everyone was already in the camp, not a mile or so out in front of it.
Cheers my friend. Good to see you again.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Ha Ha! Yes no problem YT can act like that for no rhyme or reason. Good to see your point of view on these pages!
Yes, Anthony Durnford in my opinion is responsible I'm afraid for many reasons, not least b/c he held seniority over the timid & gentlemanly Henry Pulliene. But moreover, Col D pushed the fight forward, forcing the 24th etc to extend their formations WITH his, therefore turning what should have been a solid defence into an attack. In my view he is guilty of disregarding Chelmsford's general orders (He had the manual printed in Nov'78) stating 'Draw in your forces in case of attack. Defend the camp'. As a result we know Lord C had to endure the lashings of a savage press & never quite shook off the blame for iSandlwana.
Cheers.
@@mjpope1012
Again I agree with you in that Durnford ignored both the orders he himself was given and those given to Pulleine. He was only ordered by Chelmsford to get himself and his men to the Isandlwana camp at once. Nowhere else. Chelmsford also, as you say, ordered Pulleine to keep his forces drawn in and act only on the defensive. This is exactly what Pulleine did do that morning until Durnford arrived around 10.00 and started sending forces out. At around 8.00 am there was a false alarm after thousands of Zulus were seen to the northeast. Pulleine immediate had the 24th Foot stood to just in front of the tents, in case of attack. He did not send them out here, there and everywhere. We know from this that Pulleine followed his orders and acted on the defensive.
The bizarre thing about Durnford is that when he arrived he told Pulleine he wasn't going to remain there or take charge. Yet he started giving orders. He tried to interfere with Pulleine's orders. He tried to send two companies of the 24th Foot out and Pulleine and Melville had to repeatedly remind him that their orders were to act on the defensive and protect the camp. Durnford then sent 4 of the 5 troops of his Natal Native Mounted Contingent out (the 5th troop was at the rear escorting his baggage wagons to Isandlwana). Durnford sent the rocket battery and it's Natal Native Contingent miles out and his also sent some NNC up onto the escarpment. As he rode off out he turned to Pulleine and told him he expected to be supported if he got into difficulties. Pulleine was compromised from that moment on. These decisions by Durnford were not "defensive" and "keeping forces drawn in". I cannot believe how people still excuse his actions.
Even when he was at the donga defending against the Zulu left horn Durnford, as senior commander, never kept his eye on the overall battle, he never rode back to confer with Pulleine and plan for the next course of action. He just remained at the donga fighting his own separate battle, oblivious to the rest of it. It was a poor location to be tactically aware of the general battle.
You are right in what you said before. Chelmsford and Durnford had issues, Durnford was disappointed to be left in reserve out of the picture for the main advance into Zululand so when he was ordered up to Isandlwana he took advantage of it and most definitely had an almost obsessive desire to seek action and grab it by the horns. When news came in that the Zulus were retiring, he wasn't going to let them get away. He went after them. He wanted action. If only he just sat tight and defended!!!!
The uniform was also wool,not cotton like the film Zulu with Michael Cain, unbearable to wear in that temperature
Buffalo River, mZinyathi River?
Yep - same place - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_River_(KwaZulu-Natal)
we can say ZULUS and AFRICA won in the end
I thinks it’s Isandhlwana?
Lots of different spelling to be fair. I always use Isandlwana 👍🏼
Visited SA as a young man. Have a lot of respect for both the British soldiers and the Zulu warriors. The 1964 movie is a true classic. Is it accurate?
Some bits are accurate - some aren't. Would need an entire film to explain more so may do that in the future.
Accounts with a pinch of salt maybe,
I guess we’ll never be certain. I think Brickhill’s account is probably the most honest as he wasn’t in the army and wasn’t concerned about his career.
If they’d have had Scots regiments, they wouldn’t have been so defeated!
Yes they would have, as soon as the decision was made by the senior commander there to send forces out. It would have been irrelevant what regiments were there. The 24th Foot did as much as any regiment could have.
92nd got pumped at Majuba just two years later
I worked as a redcoat extra on the film in 1979 for 3 weeks…..know a lot of the history…..it was filmed on the 100th anniversary…..ps you’re talking nonsense…the only survivors were navy artillery men who were allowed to survive because Cetshwayo told his warriors to ONLY kill anyone in a redcoat…..the gunners wore navy blue…..shows how disciplined the Zulus were….ps…on the movie there was ACTUALLY an old Zulu man who was a spear carrier boy at the ACTUAL battle!…..also we had one extra actually killed on the movie and they kept the scene in the film….anyone interested can ask me as studied it for a long time
Hi David. Im sure you are a nice guy but I am afraid as soon as someone says something like "you are talking nonsense" I no longer take them seriously. What exactly is nonsense? Many people in blue and even civilian clothes were kiled by the warriors. Perhaps you should read a little more yourself before being rude and offensive to strangers online. The biggest factor in survival was access to a horse - not the colour of their uniforms.
@@redcoathistory I’m sure you’re a nice guy too, but several things you state are simply not true…….maybe you should do a bit more research as your quality is good but not all the content
@@daviddenham1511 David - I know we would get on over a beer but you still haven’t actually pointed out any mistakes. Like most people who are on uncertain ground you don’t offer facts or evidence 🤷🏼♂️ it’s a real shame. Maybe make your own video about it? I’ll happily watch. Keep in touch and all the best.
@@redcoathistory what uncertain ground or lack of evidence?…I have actually worked on the real battle sight, spoken to local experts and historians, had conversations with historical advisors on site, visited the Pietermaritzburg Museum where all the artefacts and records are kept and as mentioned even met a real living (at the time) survivor and spoke to him!……I in fact lived in SA for 11 years……whereas you have probably read a few books, so a patronising response from you is uncalled for. Ps…..as an “expert”, what are your credentials???……..hmmm
@@daviddenham1511 Ha ha David still you don't give any information about what the mistakes are. In fact you only seem to wish to fight for the sake of it - very sad really. Being an extra on the film is good for dinner party chit chat - it does not make you an expert on the battle. In answer to your question...I am a qualified battlefield guide to the Zulu War, I live in South Africa (for over 15 years so far) and have written a book on the conflict. Anyway you are clearly not the sort of man I need engage with further. All the best, Chris
The story sounds like a blm riot, or a typical night outside of a rap concert.
see, war for what ? they all dead now ....
British got smoked and then tried to hide it with a skirmish down the road at the drift.
? What do you mean
There weren't many British at Isandlwana tbf
What an amazingly insightful comment.
Why didn't they overplay Nyezane as well then? It took place that same day. Even more one sided than Rorkes Drift. It's hardly talked about, and wasnt even talked about much back then.
Remember Blood River,,,that's were some 400 + Voortrekker Boers with Mussle Loader Rifles faced +- 15 000 Zulus , killed +- 3000 with only one person slightly wounded in his hand ,
And ,,,they were only simple Farmers...
Appreciate your video 😊
Why didn’t the generals take advantage of the high ground