I totally agree with everything Jim said. I have gardened a long time and have made every mistake possible. Putting this down thinking it would stop weeds and bindweed was my biggest regret. The fabric was girdling my tree as after 16 years the tree grew bigger than the initial hole I cut to plant it. I am taking it out inch by inch as fibrous roots have grown into it. What a chore!!!
Jim, I think anyone who's ever used landscape fabric in the past (even the high-grade woven kind) has regrets several years down the road, me included. I now use cardboard or newspaper, which bio-degrades over several years but doesn't harm the environment. Keep giving out your excellent advice. I'm still (after 20 plus years) finding and removing bits and pieces of that junk from my landscape.
@@wanw.9207 you will still have to mulch every yr or couple yrs ..seeds deposit on top of mulch and germinate...best to get them pulled ASAP. The thicker the cardboard layers the longer it will last. We used 2 layers of thick moving boxes...wet them down then 2 to 3 inches of mulch on top
I like to use cardboard and mulches. Carboard is an easy way to kill back grass and weeds. If i still need it i just add another layer on top on the decomposing previous boxes.
This is a great video Jim, thank you! I just bought a new home 18 months ago and am working to amend the soil (red clay, outside of Chapel Hill). My husband is keen on using landscaping fabric specifically for decoration (laying it under larger white rocks that will line our property fence). He asked me if I would also need fabric under our mulched shrubs in the spring. I will send him this video. 😉👍🏾
As someone who made the mistake of using landscape fabric under river rocks around our house, I must warn you that all the issues Jim mentions happen in rocks as well.
Oh thank you for creating this video. It is so difficult to get some clients to understand why we don't use landscape fabric in the planting beds. Hope you don't mind, I shared it to my FB page. (Gave you all the credit) This is a great explanation.
Great video. Have had the nursery grade landscape fabric as the base of my gravel side yard walkway for 30+ years. No issues. You need a sturdy separation layer between the gravel and native ground or else your walkway will be ineffective. That’s probably the only use for the nursery fabric EVER and I would say never go back to a retail nursery that recommended laying plastic for weed control. I’m totally against using cardboard and newspapers under mulch for the simple reason that soil has to exchange gases and you are severely hampering the critical process by smothering You have to do a winter cleanup if you want to minimize weeds. Just even a light coating of mulch in November pays dividends. Trouble is most people don’t think about the garden until April and May and by the time they get around to it weeds have set in. Your comment about using ground covers and fill in shrubbery is spot on. Americans love to plant single plants in rows. In my experience Americans love mulch as much as Brits love clipped boxwood. A garden construct with a canopy, mid level, and ground layer is the goal. The last thing I want to do as I age is hump around mulch. A patch of liriope, Ophiopogon , heuchera, native pachysandra, etc is your best friend 🤩
Great video. I hate to see fabric used. I am always adding new plants so I can’t imagine having that barrier preventing me from digging, plus the plastic is really bad for the environment. I created a huge flower garden over existing Bermuda grass last year with cardboard and compost added on top. The grass did come up some, but very manageable because my flowers took over. I had hardly ANY weeds and now have very happy worms and other biological life under the decaying boxes. I also use wood chips and hardwood mulch around my yard.
I have a small roll of this left (way before I knew about Horttube) I use it to line to bottom of my outdoor pots. It helps keep the soil in the pots. I also do flowers in wicker baskets. This stuff helps keep the soil in those too.
My brother is in Gibsonville "the City of Roses", where I visit a couple of times a year, so I am really enjoying your timely videos from his neck of the woods. I agree about that fabric. I use cardboard (because I have lots of it and) because it breaks down and goes away. I use it to start new beds, or on pathways covered by wood chips. Thanks for the bit on 'gravel regret', I was considering that as my pathways do require maintenance, but nothing good in gardening is hands-off.
I worked were cardboard are abundant, initially when I started to transform my front yard I used them and free wood chips from arborist. It’s been 6 months now and I see it’s looking good and my soil is improving. I’m in a process of using Korean Natural Farming style for my 2022 growing season.
@Coffee & Gardens I wanted to leave a comment in your video but they are closed, and most people don't notice when they are closed so I thought to let you know
This is super helpful, especially in regards to soil health. I have a “blank slate” of a back yard that the landlord graveled and paver stoned the whole thing before we moved in. After a few years the weeds have now taken over and it’s a nightmare to weed. Especially the areas where they used the fabric barrier. I can’t wait to start pulling it up and making the dirt into soil!
We had to rip that stuff out of our front plant bed a few years after we bought our house. The grass and weeds had found a way under it anyway and pulling the complex growth of Bermuda grass out of the bed plus the plastic convinced me it wasn’t worth using. We’ve discovered the power of mulch since then and are now investing in more plants to cover the spaces. Plus I’ve learned so much from this channel!
Thanks for this video. My experience with landscape fabric has not been good. After 25 years of looking at an eye sore empty area in my backyard, I decided to plant flowers. The previous owners used landscape fabric. I managed to dig it all up and it was a lot of work. What I didn't count on was the horrific smell of the fabric mixed in the dirt. I will pass on fabric for sure☺
When we bought our home about 3 years ago, I was so excited to see the landscape around the house and couldn't wait to get my shovel in the ground to make it my own. Sadly, I found the previous owner used landscape fabric. 😣 I inherited a big pain in the butt! I have been removing it in patches as I replant sections. Never a single worm under that garbage. Beautiful decomposed mulch (about 4 inches) on top of it, but because of the barrier, it can't improve the soil or feed the plants like it could be. I look forward to having it fully removed...piece by piece, I'll get there. 😬
After almost 20 years, I think we've got almostt all of it out of our property and the HOA entrance that our homes previous owners kindly took care of as well. 😁 Add a big old pair of scissors to your set of gardening tools..
I done both, using good quality landscape fabric and using cardboard in different areas. I checked my soil looking for warms and found them in both of the areas. So far so good.
I regret not removing the landscape fabric from our flowerbeds when we first purchased our home 20 years ago. It was a weeding nightmare for years! Adding insult to injury, we had to pick through the debris to remove the plastic bits before we could put the yard waste into the bin.
Thank you! great video! i love using sedum as a ground cover --- it's so pretty! and looks great year round --- and it totally suppresses weeds in my flowerbeds.
Preach Jim!!! I tell my customers that all the time. They want to lay it down so they never have to weed. Guess what its part of gardening and maintaining a nice landscape. A nice Japanese garden hoe/sickle makes easy work of any weeds.
Great video Jim. I have used some cardboard and think that I will one day use painters 'manilla' brown paper, as well as leaves, and mulch on top. Nothing is a permanent fix, a gardener has to understand that they will need to do some 'weeding' by hand and or by hoop rake, or hoe etc. if you plan to be organic. If we could just redirect the flight patterns of birds, or the wind direction? In every garden some weed seeds must fall...
I use and love it… specifically for decorative gravel and beach pebbles. It keeps the rocks from sinking and mixing into the soil. I have 6 yards/pallets of beach pebbles & gravel in backyard planter/perimeter areas, and same for front-yard.
Amen! I used the fabric once in a small section and tore it out after weeds grew through it. I was taught that the 1st duty of every gardener is to improve the soil. In Texas, we have caliche. I have used enormous amounts of leaves and mulch. I'm now using cardboard and compost. With improved soil, plants grow and whatever weeds emerge can be pulled, even if you start with caliche.
I was a brand new gardener and I'd purchased a few rolls of landscape fabric thinking,"Oh! No More Weeds"! ......then I saw your video😞😒😢. So I decided not to take the fabric way out. It's not that bad weeding. It definitely gets better season after season. Thanks for the tips about not pulling the mulch back, when to mulch, and weed, before they get bad. 🌱🌷🌱
I’m glad I saw this. I usually use cardboard but have a spot I’m going to put in a mulch and paver pathway that has some uneven roots from a nearby tree. I thought this would make things easier, but if it causes more headaches down the road, I may just use a bag or two of topsoil to even out those spots and use the cardboard or newspapers. I ordered some pearlwort seeds as ground cover to prevent future weeds.
Thanks a lot Jim. Now I'm going to have landscape fabric/plastic nightmares again! lol 48 years ago my parents planted several Pfitzer junipers on the northside of their house for a windbreak along with black plastic around them. We'll me and chainsaw, axes, tractor, frontend loader, shovels and a month of work took care of that. I'm sure someone will find pieces of the plastic 50 years from now. Didn't stop blackberries, mulberries, Virginia creeper, Chinese elm, juniperus virginiana, hackberry! I saved a few of the old Pfitzer's. They are all gnarly and cool though. Preach on brother!
Thank you for the insight, after 12 years in very established garden beds my husband and I took all the fabric out because of your advise. The soil was suffering and the nitrogen level was nonexistent. The removal was extremely difficult and we did damage root systems however in the long run I have hopes this is the beginning of restoration to the soil so the plants will thrive instead of barely surviving. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, I appreciate all your videos!
Totally agree from a permanent installation. We use the heavy duty weed fabric "Dewit brand" in our vegetable garden. (~75x30) We remove it every year soil test, then till in fertilizer, compost and other things then leave it uncovered several weeks. Then before we plant we put the fabric back out and plant. Without it we couldn't keep up with weeding our garden area and having that much food safe wood chips just wasn't an option. In all other situations I 100% agree with you. we dealt with it being in a landscaping situation at our old house, it was a nightmare. We did use a small amount at our house in a walking path with large stones to keep them from sinking it the soil/mud. Might regret that decision, but I didn't see how to keep the large stones from sinking into the ground.
So I did use just regular ole straw on my own pea gravel path. Built completely by me, age 40. It held up so well with the pea gravel and other large stepping stones. Just a suggestion.
THANKS for sharing the truth about landscape fabric / micro plastics & the numerous detriments for soil health & gardening! We need to teach best practices. I tried it long ago & quickly regretted it; removing it, of course. Love your content. Greetings from Virginia Beach, VA. 😊
How well we have learned about this stuff over the years! Thanks for making it more about the health of our soil and the earth. It makes it all the more important.
Soil, baby, it’s all about the soil! Yay, Jim! I moved into sandy Fuquay and have been building the soil for 9 years. I have oodles of trees and oodles of leaves that remain on my gardens. My soil is a living organism and gosh, it’s pretty easy to maintain as well. Another great video! 👍🏻
Thanks for the video!! You just saved my garden beds and soil as i was contemplating buying the landscape fabric. I will use newspaper, cardboard to kill weeds and layer with compost and woodchips to keep the soil microbes and worms alive and healthy.
great info - I have never, nor will I, used landscape fabric. a waste of time & money, and so very bad for the soil (just as you talked about). I have seen some new types, however, that are plant based (made from corn, I think?) but used on production farms - moving toward a better product but still a ways to go. I for one enjoy weeding - crazy I know - but it's part of my garden therapy. I'm always happier after a good day of pulling weeds and mulcing. I also use Preen which prevents seeds from germinating - it's a good product as long as you're not expecting your plants, etc. to self seed. thanks again for all the info and inspiration - and to an extent affirmation that what I'm doing is right !!!!
I bought a new (old) home about a year and a half ago. The former owner used a high grade landscape fabric, which I am still removing in shreds and clumps as I encounter it. Parts of it had even semi-decomposed and clogged a drainage pipe. A large portion of my first year “gardening” was spent unearthing plastics. The benefit from landscape fabric might be realized for a couple of years, but the damage lasts for generations!
Yikes! I put some down just last year. I guess on the positive side, I should be able to remove it next summer before it starts breaking down. Thanks for the info! ❤️ 🇨🇦
I use cardboard to protect my bulbs from animals. They are more likely to go after freshly planted bulbs. The cardboard will disintegrate by the time bulbs are ready to break through the ground.
Excellent video my friend. Weeds are just something that requires maintenance and staying on top of them. As you said, the oldest problem in gardening.
Yep, in creating our Kentucky Native Plants sanctuary at home, we STILL come across the landscape fabric the previous owners used everywhere. This is 12 years later. It's a joke now, whenever we dig up pieces of that crappy stuff. Organic mulches and native vegetation, ground covers make FAR better mulch. Lately, we've been planting more site-specific sedges for those purposes. Thanks for this great video.
A million times, YES. Previous homeowners created a blank slate across all the beds in my garden; removing overgrown shrubs, foundation plantings, etc. Each bed was covered in landscape fabric. Very neat looking and sparked my love for gardening (refilling the garden with beautiful things) but I inherited their "fabric regret" big time. Every TIME I wanted to dig a hole, BAM - freaking landscape fabric underneath 4 inches of mulch. I knew it all had to go. Ripping that stuff up, especially yards, and yards and YARDS of it is a nightmare I never ever want to repeat. You should have heard my muttering/profanity while doing it, lol. The soil beneath was so deprived. Take Jim's advice, folks
Oh my God, me too! I’m at war with the previous owners love of ‘landscape fabric’ which, in their case, was plastic bags and thick plastic with rocks on top! Drives me mad and I’m still excavating it and amending the poor soil underneath. It’s awful stuff.
I agree with you Jim! Gardening should he about building the soil and in return we reap or enjoy the results. I use black plastic to warm my soil in the spring. I never mulch over it or leave it there. It's just to warm the soil for early cool weather crops.
I totally agree with you. I live outside Charlotte in Monroe and my problem is with Bermuda grass. It takes over quickly. I have a small food forest area that I am about to try the heavy duty landscape fabric to solarize the bermuda and hopefully lift it up after a year or two. In my orchard, I am using old billboard signs to do the same thing and hope that grass seed just follows the burning of the bermuda that I can cut with my tractor and lawn mower. Do you have any other suggestions to not use the plastic. Thanks David
I agree! To remove my weed-block fabric, I had to first remove several inches of gravel mixed with fine soil and it was a nightmare. But I do use it to line the inside of my raised beds -- to prolong the life of the timber. Let's see how that works out (been a few years now).
Well dang… great video. I have used way too much landscape fabric in the past. But no more!! I just saw my to-do list grow exponentially (removal of said landscaping fabric). Ah well, just more time to garden. 🤷♀️😝
Wow! I learned something new from you - that explains why you don't see any earthworms under that stuff because like other wildlife they end up eating it as it breaks down, and you know when you have that putrid smell you have got a problem.
I like the idea of low growing spreading items to keep the weeds down. I use lots of groundcover like small sedum. Weeds don't grow through them at all and every year I pull some off and start a new patch of groundcover
This is great. I live in a forest in the Sierra Foothills. I just spent the the last two weeks extending my veggie garden clearing out blackberries and poison oak. Tomorrow I’m putting down hardware cloth to keep rodents out but knowing where I live, the blackberries and poison oak will come back. From what I get is that cardboard is a good one to keep them at bay. So I’ll start with that tomorrow and hopefully that will work. Should I put the cardboard down first or the wire?
I've mentioned this on every DIY site I'm on. I own a lawn care company and one of the jobs we do is is pull weeds out of flower beds, any that have the fabric where there every week because the weeds just grow right through it, so it's impossible to pull out the roots. Home owners trying to cheap out are going to use hardwood mulch and also never enough that just breaks down making a great place for weeds to grow. One customer I have was using stone, instead of mulch. I told him let me spray total vegetation killer first and do not use any form of weed blocker. Nope, he used "weed blocker fabric" then the stone. He now pays me at least $50.00 a week to just pull weeds.
I still stand by my use of heavy duty fabric under my crushed rock paths in my garden and under my rock in my greenhouse. Also north side of my house with drainage rock where I will never plant anything. All my new beds I now start with cardboard to kill off the grass.
The only time I 've ever used landscape fabric was under 3-4 inch river rocks under some trees. The roots from the trees did not allow me to plant anything! So I put down landscape fabric and then the rocks. I've had very few weeds, the shade from the trees, the rocks and the fabric are keeping the space very tidy. It's all been there at least 10 years.
Good to know.. I had a couple of creek beds put in last year that are mostly in shade and there is landscape fabric under them. I hate it in general because I've been digging it out for years elsewhere so I was really not sure about this. Did get some grass growing in it after DH seeded his 'shade mix' all over the place.. (thanks hon 🙄). But otherwise seems fine.
Chiming in with the regret. I think the ubiquity of this fabric throughout gardens is the perceived “ease” factor. Property owners want a “look” but many don’t want maintenance. Landscapers typically don’t come back after they’ve installed a plan - and lots of owners couldn’t afford a regular garden service anyway. And once you’ve installed it (and plantings) there is a fear factor based upon how much was invested - woe if you go to the hard work to pull it up and then the weeds take over. 😜 I have been pulling it back, bit by bit, foot by foot. And guess what? Very few weeds pop up. My goal is to completely cover the berm that stretches the width of our property with ground covers and low shrubs. But again, it’s about the “ease” - and it’s not easy! There is no such thing as a “no maintenance” anything, really. The work has to be done. Don’t install it if you don’t want the work. Great discussion, Jim!
I'm in NE Florida and the available "wood chips" seems to be pine bark mulch. Chip Drop is a possibility, but there's no way to know ahead of time what types of chips you'll get, and most of the time it's pine.
For me, in the crazy flowerbeds I had in our past house where I used it, it was the only way I could have a fighting chance against the super strong Portuguese Parsley and the Pepermint. Oh and the Fennel! Yes it smelled nice but no, it never let anything else grow and they took over the flowerbeds. I got rid of them and they always came back strong lol - The only way was to cover them, plant something that needed just a small hole to pop from the black fabric and nice rocks on top, and if it lasts only 5 years or so, it's 5 years I won. I didn't want to use nasty chemicals... but I guess in my future projects for the next house flowerbeds I will use something different
Great video and thank you for showing we could see in the future if we tried to use it. The best way to have the best soil is to mulch it before weeds try to grow. Just like with what you did with the wood chips on top of the clay soil (GA Red clay is notorious in my area). You can free wood chips or mulch in most cases. The local cities and counties may have a place for you to pick it up. Some locations may just dump it right in your yard for you! You may need a wheelbarrow and a rake but it will be worth it in the long run for sure. Keep up the great work!
I recently pulled up some fabric with woodchips on top. The woodchips, of course, started to decompose. Very aggressive weeds came right through the holes of the plastic pins that keep it in place, and where the parts overlap. Weeds finds it's way. It was vey smelly, just like you say. I will use cardboard, or newspapers, as a short-term. Only to give me time enough to get up to speed in this garden. I moved in here for only 2 mths ago. In the mean time I just don't want the weed to think that they can still grow all over the show. When they are weakened a bit, I will get them up by the roots. I know the roots of our weed in Denmark goes very deep, and side-ways, and entangled in the roots of other plants as well. But, after some rain, it is easy to get them, follow their lines, and eventually get up as much as possible. It is impossible to plant anything, because there's just roots all over the place. Thick as roots from the hedge, or shrubs. They have quite a network down there! Thanks for your follow-up video.
My front yard is full of broken down landscape fabric AND gravel a previous owner put down. It's a nightmare. In my side yard it appears someone had the idea to re-use plastic grocery bags as landscape fabric. The dogs keep digging them up. That too was a bad idea, but they are not broken down as much as the landscape fabric.
Question - if you DID have landscape fabric in place, would you still fertilize in the same manner (tossing fertilizer on top of your mulch), or would you pull the mulch back and make sure that you were placing the fertilizer under the fabric? Thanks.
Agree with you! I could have saved myself time and money a few years back. The weeds grew on top of fabric then I had to pull it out. Now my soil drains better and weeds aren't growing on top of the fabric.
Utilizing the Woven Weed Fabric in a 'Veggie' garden is a little different though, because you can tell when it stops doing what you put it down for and can pull it BEFORE it completely breaks down. Also, in a 'Raised bed' you can pull it from the top as soon as the growing season is over in an attempt to preserve it. However, of course ANY weed fabric will break down, it happened in my flower and bush spaces just as it has for many of us. My question would be in a 'Veggie' garden application, how long does the *Commercial 'Woven' fabric actually last?* When should you look at pulling it up and REPLACING it? Does it erode the soil underneath or just not do anything needful?
As a landscaper, 100% agree with this. Landscape fabric really is terrible, know that smell all to well. I’ve seen plenty of house flippers throw it down to get rid of weeds, then 6 months later the new owner calls us to get rid of it.
@@JimPutnam My business is more on the long term garden maintenance side, rather than new installs so we do factor in all the things you are talking about. We do use it in a few situations, rock gardens as mentioned, but don't care for the stuff myself. Would never put it in my garden!
I use weed/landscape barriers as a base for the "pea stone gravel" on top, for the walkways between my raised beds. Not in the garden itself. The landscape barriers work very well too to block any weeds coming up in the stone walkway. So, I first dug out about 3 inches of soil evenly in the walkway area (about 3 feet wide), then pounded it flat using an 8x8" steel tamper. Then I placed down the landscape barrier fabric careful to add some overlap up over the edges before cutting it. I secured the fabric using "sod staples" every four inches. Then, before adding in the pea gravel to the walkway, I wanted to first clean off the stones. The bags contain a kind of grimy, stone residue in it. I guess that's from the process of bagging and transporting the stones. If you add it to your walkway straightaway, there will be this grime on your shoes or feet for a while. So, I used a wheelbarrow and hose to take care of that. It takes a while but it's worth it. So, I cut open a couple bags and poured them into a metal wheel barrow, and then used a hose to fill the barrow with water so it rose over the stones. Then I agitated the stones with my hands, and poured out the dirty water slowly. (Be careful not to over-tilt the barrow as its kind of heavy and you'll pour out all the stones). I repeated this process a couple times until the water appeared clear. Then, used a shovel to transfer the pea gravel atop the landscape barrier. Lots of shoveling, but it began to fill in. And it was well worth it. I have a bit of clay soil, so the hollow of the walkway lip held the pea gravel perfectly inside. Walking on it was firm but pleasant too. Especially barefoot. It was like a massage! It gave way a bit, but filled in as you walked. And after a rain, the pea gravel glistens.
Jim, I am doing a dry River bed 20 ft by 3 ft in area I am using stones of varied sizes, do you recommend using the fabric?. Thank you for all your great videos.
What barrier would you recommend for a gravel walkway and gravel patio that are surrounded by garden spaces? I would be afraid to lay a lot of gravel in hardscape spaces around garden spaces without some sort of barrier.
Perhaps Jim could show examples of where gravel paths/patios are appropriate. We have had tremendous run-off over the past 10+ years in various areas off our lawn and into our woods (and done to a river). In some of the flatter areas, we have created wood chip paths. Could wood chips be better for your situation? You do have to replenish every year or so, but the cost of materials and ease of work, is certainly better than stone! Good luck to you.
I have ripped out all grades of fabric, and the ground below is always awful. The plants you want above struggle to perform their best and the water runs off more than through. The weeds that grow through are the top echelon of thugs tearing big holes in what was originally keeping the grass and other weeds at bay. Removing years old placed gravel with fabric underneath was delightful though, I just pulled the fabric and stones in one fell swoop into an easy pile. I highly recommend fabric under gravel with the caveat of keeping soil from washing in. Leaf blowers are great to remove debris if put to the right settings for the right job. Large enough stones won't blow or get sucked up.
Finally a video that exposes this crap. No Plastic is an answer in landscape. I’m a landscaper around Boston. Weed material is the Worst invention ever
I’ve heard you mention wood chips a few times, but I’m not sure what you mean. How big are they? Where did you get them? What I’ve seen before are large, thick, half dollar or larger sized chips.
Excellent video. I agree with Jim about everything he said. I experienced this for myself many years ago and ended up pulling it all up. I've also experienced the gravel issue as well. Question: if I were to start a flowerbed in a grass area, could I just till up the ground or do I need to remove the top layer if grass? Would I have grass and weed problems if I just till without removing grass? Hope this is not a dumb question.
Not a dumb question at all, Kayla! Before you dig, check out Charles Dowding No Dig method for starting garden beds right on top of grass. You will find him on YT. One caveat: I also want to create new beds where there is grass but this is where sod was laid with plastic net backing (didn't know that was part of the bargain) and I have to rip that up anyway. So check for that first...
Hi Jim,enjoy your videos. I like the blue color of the colorado blue spruce but dislike the sharpe prickly needles. Do you know if there are any balsam firs that have the soft needles that are as blue as the spruce?
I used landscape fabric in a project to create an small wildflower meadow to kill all the weeds in the ground. Then I removed it after about 6 months and spreaded the wildflower seeds. The flowers grew fine, but I wonder if I can just use cardboard or a thick layer of leaf mulch to cover the area of the weeds and then I would spread the wildflower seeds. Would that also work?
I helped my friend lay almost and acre of the high-grade weed barrier in Hawaii. It's only been 3 months and it's already shredding and weeds are growing though. I don't have the heart to tell him that there will be bits of plastic in the soil on his farm for generations to come... Heartbreaking.
I find weedblock useful for planting tree seedlings in a wind block. As it will block weeds for at least the first year or so till the seedling gets established and then it really doesn’t matter after that.
I am still finding fabric on one side of my backyard after living here for years. I thought I got most of it but a lot seems to be far down and then when I plant something I find more. So frustrating and I am beginning to think that’s why I have a hard time growing some things there.
When I purchased my home, there was a large gravel patio area. I didn’t take care of it and now it is filled with week. I can clean out the ones I see but how do I keep them from returning?
We’re struggling to dig/ plant on property we just bought bc we’re hitting two different layers of landscape fabric buried about 5” below and 5” further down. SUCKS! Existing tree/shrub roots were suppressed/hampered and huge air spaces formed under them, resulting in impaired nutrient uptake and growth.
The illusion of control... but Nature always finds a way to infiltrate a fabric. Better to use the gifts she gives us (leaves, ground covers, mulch), yes?
humm interesting my problems maybe different here in the Philippines. grass and weeds much worse then i ever had in usa... you mention cardboard is better. problem is cardboard sheds water, i guess if i had drip irrigation but hard to find that here as well as this is a peso budget, my long term plan is raised beds- asp composting- mix vermicast etc, worms already expanding but will be year before i have tons of vermicast. so i was planning to use a little weed barrier because the weeds are so overwhelming. it would take hours every day with 2 or 3 people to keep the weeds and grass in check-- yes it really grows that fast. i am impressed that you say after 20 years the weed barrier will be a mess i had no idea how long it would last and thought if i had to replace every year i would do good ( growing crops year round no winter here- 12 hours sun year around) , well hopefully the raised beds will give me the weed control i need i can replace the top few inches every year as needed use that soil for fruit trees maybe ,and add new soil mix to keep weeds under control i have on order 4 rolls of the heavy duty kind guess i will experiment and hope within a year to start replacing with raised beds hope it will help for a year. would you say from your experience that after 2 growing seasons you can still pick it up in one piece?
I totally agree with you, i don't like them at all! but what do you recommend to use under the gravel o stone groundcover? We havent found agood option for that :(
I totally agree with everything Jim said. I have gardened a long time and have made every mistake possible. Putting this down thinking it would stop weeds and bindweed was my biggest regret. The fabric was girdling my tree as after 16 years the tree grew bigger than the initial hole I cut to plant it. I am taking it out inch by inch as fibrous roots have grown into it. What a chore!!!
Jim, I think anyone who's ever used landscape fabric in the past (even the high-grade woven kind) has regrets several years down the road, me included. I now use cardboard or newspaper, which bio-degrades over several years but doesn't harm the environment. Keep giving out your excellent advice. I'm still (after 20 plus years) finding and removing bits and pieces of that junk from my landscape.
Yep I use cardboard and newspaper as well. My neighbor thought I was nuts last spring when we put it down lol
Glad that I see this before I dig up my gardens bed! Guess I will return the fabric to Rona. How long do you think the news papers will hold?
@@wanw.9207 you will still have to mulch every yr or couple yrs ..seeds deposit on top of mulch and germinate...best to get them pulled ASAP. The thicker the cardboard layers the longer it will last. We used 2 layers of thick moving boxes...wet them down then 2 to 3 inches of mulch on top
I like to use cardboard and mulches. Carboard is an easy way to kill back grass and weeds. If i still need it i just add another layer on top on the decomposing previous boxes.
This is a great video Jim, thank you! I just bought a new home 18 months ago and am working to amend the soil (red clay, outside of Chapel Hill). My husband is keen on using landscaping fabric specifically for decoration (laying it under larger white rocks that will line our property fence). He asked me if I would also need fabric under our mulched shrubs in the spring. I will send him this video. 😉👍🏾
As someone who made the mistake of using landscape fabric under river rocks around our house, I must warn you that all the issues Jim mentions happen in rocks as well.
Thank you for telling the best time to mulch in order to discourage weed seeds.
Thanks for following along!
Oh thank you for creating this video. It is so difficult to get some clients to understand why we don't use landscape fabric in the planting beds.
Hope you don't mind, I shared it to my FB page. (Gave you all the credit) This is a great explanation.
Thank you so much!!
Great video. Have had the nursery grade landscape fabric as the base of my gravel side yard walkway for 30+ years. No issues. You need a sturdy separation layer between the gravel and native ground or else your walkway will be ineffective. That’s probably the only use for the nursery fabric EVER and I would say never go back to a retail nursery that recommended laying plastic for weed control.
I’m totally against using cardboard and newspapers under mulch for the simple reason that soil has to exchange gases and you are severely hampering the critical process by smothering
You have to do a winter cleanup if you want to minimize weeds. Just even a light coating of mulch in November pays dividends. Trouble is most people don’t think about the garden until April and May and by the time they get around to it weeds have set in.
Your comment about using ground covers and fill in shrubbery is spot on. Americans love to plant single plants in rows. In my experience Americans love mulch as much as Brits love clipped boxwood. A garden construct with a canopy, mid level, and ground layer is the goal. The last thing I want to do as I age is hump around mulch. A patch of liriope, Ophiopogon , heuchera, native pachysandra, etc is your best friend 🤩
That is great to hear. We are trying to get this done too!
Great video. I hate to see fabric used. I am always adding new plants so I can’t imagine having that barrier preventing me from digging, plus the plastic is really bad for the environment. I created a huge flower garden over existing Bermuda grass last year with cardboard and compost added on top. The grass did come up some, but very manageable because my flowers took over. I had hardly ANY weeds and now have very happy worms and other biological life under the decaying boxes. I also use wood chips and hardwood mulch around my yard.
I have a small roll of this left (way before I knew about Horttube) I use it to line to bottom of my outdoor pots. It helps keep the soil in the pots. I also do flowers in wicker baskets. This stuff helps keep the soil in those too.
I use it in the bottom of my pots and planters as well.
My brother is in Gibsonville "the City of Roses", where I visit a couple of times a year, so I am really enjoying your timely videos from his neck of the woods. I agree about that fabric. I use cardboard (because I have lots of it and) because it breaks down and goes away. I use it to start new beds, or on pathways covered by wood chips. Thanks for the bit on 'gravel regret', I was considering that as my pathways do require maintenance, but nothing good in gardening is hands-off.
I worked were cardboard are abundant, initially when I started to transform my front yard I used them and free wood chips from arborist. It’s been 6 months now and I see it’s looking good and my soil is improving. I’m in a process of using Korean Natural Farming style for my 2022 growing season.
Nice, good luck with everything!!
@Coffee & Gardens I wanted to leave a comment in your video but they are closed, and most people don't notice when they are closed so I thought to let you know
@@TheLivingBackyard oh thanks yeah the comments was off it has something to do with the settings for kids I guess.
This is super helpful, especially in regards to soil health. I have a “blank slate” of a back yard that the landlord graveled and paver stoned the whole thing before we moved in. After a few years the weeds have now taken over and it’s a nightmare to weed. Especially the areas where they used the fabric barrier. I can’t wait to start pulling it up and making the dirt into soil!
We had to rip that stuff out of our front plant bed a few years after we bought our house. The grass and weeds had found a way under it anyway and pulling the complex growth of Bermuda grass out of the bed plus the plastic convinced me it wasn’t worth using. We’ve discovered the power of mulch since then and are now investing in more plants to cover the spaces. Plus I’ve learned so much from this channel!
I wish I could like this video more than once. Way more than once. Thank you for speaking your mind in this matter! 💚👌
Thanks for this video. My experience with landscape fabric has not been good. After 25 years of looking at an eye sore empty area in my backyard, I decided to plant flowers. The previous owners used landscape fabric. I managed to dig it all up and it was a lot of work. What I didn't count on was the horrific smell of the fabric mixed in the dirt. I will pass on fabric for sure☺
When we bought our home about 3 years ago, I was so excited to see the landscape around the house and couldn't wait to get my shovel in the ground to make it my own. Sadly, I found the previous owner used landscape fabric. 😣 I inherited a big pain in the butt! I have been removing it in patches as I replant sections. Never a single worm under that garbage. Beautiful decomposed mulch (about 4 inches) on top of it, but because of the barrier, it can't improve the soil or feed the plants like it could be. I look forward to having it fully removed...piece by piece, I'll get there. 😬
After almost 20 years, I think we've got almostt all of it out of our property and the HOA entrance that our homes previous owners kindly took care of as well. 😁 Add a big old pair of scissors to your set of gardening tools..
I done both, using good quality landscape fabric and using cardboard in different areas. I checked my soil looking for warms and found them in both of the areas. So far so good.
I regret not removing the landscape fabric from our flowerbeds when we first purchased our home 20 years ago. It was a weeding nightmare for years! Adding insult to injury, we had to pick through the debris to remove the plastic bits before we could put the yard waste into the bin.
Thank you! great video! i love using sedum as a ground cover --- it's so pretty! and looks great year round --- and it totally suppresses weeds in my flowerbeds.
Exactly: “Improving the soil.” Thank you for these good points and reminders.
Loved this segment! So good to hear my cardboard methodology is a sound one!
Preach Jim!!! I tell my customers that all the time. They want to lay it down so they never have to weed. Guess what its part of gardening and maintaining a nice landscape. A nice Japanese garden hoe/sickle makes easy work of any weeds.
Great video Jim. I have used some cardboard and think that I will one day use painters 'manilla' brown paper, as well as leaves, and mulch on top. Nothing is a permanent fix, a gardener has to understand that they will need to do some 'weeding' by hand and or by hoop rake, or hoe etc. if you plan to be organic. If we could just redirect the flight patterns of birds, or the wind direction? In every garden some weed seeds must fall...
I use and love it… specifically for decorative gravel and beach pebbles. It keeps the rocks from sinking and mixing into the soil.
I have 6 yards/pallets of beach pebbles & gravel in backyard planter/perimeter areas, and same for front-yard.
You're going to have problems with that unless maybe if you live in a desert. Guaranteed.
Same here😊
Amen! I used the fabric once in a small section and tore it out after weeds grew through it. I was taught that the 1st duty of every gardener is to improve the soil. In Texas, we have caliche. I have used enormous amounts of leaves and mulch. I'm now using cardboard and compost. With improved soil, plants grow and whatever weeds emerge can be pulled, even if you start with caliche.
I was a brand new gardener and I'd purchased a few rolls of landscape fabric thinking,"Oh! No More Weeds"! ......then I saw your video😞😒😢. So I decided not to take the fabric way out. It's not that bad weeding. It definitely gets better season after season. Thanks for the tips about not pulling the mulch back, when to mulch, and weed, before they get bad. 🌱🌷🌱
Hope you kept the receipt!
I’m glad I saw this. I usually use cardboard but have a spot I’m going to put in a mulch and paver pathway that has some uneven roots from a nearby tree. I thought this would make things easier, but if it causes more headaches down the road, I may just use a bag or two of topsoil to even out those spots and use the cardboard or newspapers. I ordered some pearlwort seeds as ground cover to prevent future weeds.
Thanks a lot Jim. Now I'm going to have landscape fabric/plastic nightmares again! lol 48 years ago my parents planted several Pfitzer junipers on the northside of their house for a windbreak along with black plastic around them. We'll me and chainsaw, axes, tractor, frontend loader, shovels and a month of work took care of that. I'm sure someone will find pieces of the plastic 50 years from now. Didn't stop blackberries, mulberries, Virginia creeper, Chinese elm, juniperus virginiana, hackberry! I saved a few of the old Pfitzer's. They are all gnarly and cool though. Preach on brother!
Thank you for the insight, after 12 years in very established garden beds my husband and I took all the fabric out because of your advise. The soil was suffering and the nitrogen level was nonexistent. The removal was extremely difficult and we did damage root systems however in the long run I have hopes this is the beginning of restoration to the soil so the plants will thrive instead of barely surviving. Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, I appreciate all your videos!
Thank you for readdressing this with facts and logic! This stuff is an absolute nightmare.
Totally agree from a permanent installation. We use the heavy duty weed fabric "Dewit brand" in our vegetable garden. (~75x30) We remove it every year soil test, then till in fertilizer, compost and other things then leave it uncovered several weeks. Then before we plant we put the fabric back out and plant. Without it we couldn't keep up with weeding our garden area and having that much food safe wood chips just wasn't an option.
In all other situations I 100% agree with you. we dealt with it being in a landscaping situation at our old house, it was a nightmare. We did use a small amount at our house in a walking path with large stones to keep them from sinking it the soil/mud. Might regret that decision, but I didn't see how to keep the large stones from sinking into the ground.
So I did use just regular ole straw on my own pea gravel path. Built completely by me, age 40. It held up so well with the pea gravel and other large stepping stones. Just a suggestion.
Also the straw just smothers and eventually breaks down but it lets air and some water through.
THANKS for sharing the truth about landscape fabric / micro plastics & the numerous detriments for soil health & gardening! We need to teach best practices. I tried it long ago & quickly regretted it; removing it, of course. Love your content. Greetings from Virginia Beach, VA. 😊
How well we have learned about this stuff over the years! Thanks for making it more about the health of our soil and the earth. It makes it all the more important.
I have found a solid layer of cardboard with mulch on top is great for starting a new bed, especially in weedy areas.
Soil, baby, it’s all about the soil! Yay, Jim! I moved into sandy Fuquay and have been building the soil for 9 years. I have oodles of trees and oodles of leaves that remain on my gardens. My soil is a living organism and gosh, it’s pretty easy to maintain as well. Another great video! 👍🏻
Thanks for the video!! You just saved my garden beds and soil as i was contemplating buying the landscape fabric. I will use newspaper, cardboard to kill weeds and layer with compost and woodchips to keep the soil microbes and worms alive and healthy.
great info - I have never, nor will I, used landscape fabric. a waste of time & money, and so very bad for the soil (just as you talked about). I have seen some new types, however, that are plant based (made from corn, I think?) but used on production farms - moving toward a better product but still a ways to go. I for one enjoy weeding - crazy I know - but it's part of my garden therapy. I'm always happier after a good day of pulling weeds and mulcing. I also use Preen which prevents seeds from germinating - it's a good product as long as you're not expecting your plants, etc. to self seed. thanks again for all the info and inspiration - and to an extent affirmation that what I'm doing is right !!!!
I just pull mine up at the end of growing season mulch til and i have had 0 problems. Love it
I bought a new (old) home about a year and a half ago. The former owner used a high grade landscape fabric, which I am still removing in shreds and clumps as I encounter it. Parts of it had even semi-decomposed and clogged a drainage pipe. A large portion of my first year “gardening” was spent unearthing plastics. The benefit from landscape fabric might be realized for a couple of years, but the damage lasts for generations!
Thank you - I was about to order this stuff - but something just bugged me, re using plastic. So glad I watched your video.
Yes absolutely!! Thanks for confirming why not to use landscape fabric!! Weeds will never go away!
Yikes! I put some down just last year. I guess on the positive side, I should be able to remove it next summer before it starts breaking down. Thanks for the info! ❤️ 🇨🇦
You convinced me. Just laid down 100 sq. ft. of landscape cover and just pulled it all up after watching this!
I love watching your videos. You always share great information, I always look forward to your videos! Happy Gardening!
I use cardboard to protect my bulbs from animals. They are more likely to go after freshly planted bulbs. The cardboard will disintegrate by the time bulbs are ready to break through the ground.
Excellent video my friend. Weeds are just something that requires maintenance and staying on top of them. As you said, the oldest problem in gardening.
Yep, in creating our Kentucky Native Plants sanctuary at home, we STILL come across the landscape fabric the previous owners used everywhere. This is 12 years later. It's a joke now, whenever we dig up pieces of that crappy stuff. Organic mulches and native vegetation, ground covers make FAR better mulch. Lately, we've been planting more site-specific sedges for those purposes. Thanks for this great video.
A million times, YES. Previous homeowners created a blank slate across all the beds in my garden; removing overgrown shrubs, foundation plantings, etc. Each bed was covered in landscape fabric. Very neat looking and sparked my love for gardening (refilling the garden with beautiful things) but I inherited their "fabric regret" big time. Every TIME I wanted to dig a hole, BAM - freaking landscape fabric underneath 4 inches of mulch. I knew it all had to go. Ripping that stuff up, especially yards, and yards and YARDS of it is a nightmare I never ever want to repeat. You should have heard my muttering/profanity while doing it, lol. The soil beneath was so deprived. Take Jim's advice, folks
Oh my God, me too! I’m at war with the previous owners love of ‘landscape fabric’ which, in their case, was plastic bags and thick plastic with rocks on top! Drives me mad and I’m still excavating it and amending the poor soil underneath. It’s awful stuff.
There's gonna be a lot of "Me Toos" on this one!
I agree with you Jim! Gardening should he about building the soil and in return we reap or enjoy the results. I use black plastic to warm my soil in the spring. I never mulch over it or leave it there. It's just to warm the soil for early cool weather crops.
Also I agree cardboard, mulch, and good old elbow grease after those early season rainfalls are the best method to a healthy soil biome.
I have only used it under my gravel and tile paths. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 It’s awful for in the beds. I have used newspaper and cardboard for years in them.
I totally agree with you. I live outside Charlotte in Monroe and my problem is with Bermuda grass. It takes over quickly. I have a small food forest area that I am about to try the heavy duty landscape fabric to solarize the bermuda and hopefully lift it up after a year or two. In my orchard, I am using old billboard signs to do the same thing and hope that grass seed just follows the burning of the bermuda that I can cut with my tractor and lawn mower. Do you have any other suggestions to not use the plastic. Thanks David
I agree! To remove my weed-block fabric, I had to first remove several inches of gravel mixed with fine soil and it was a nightmare. But I do use it to line the inside of my raised beds -- to prolong the life of the timber. Let's see how that works out (been a few years now).
Well dang… great video. I have used way too much landscape fabric in the past. But no more!! I just saw my to-do list grow exponentially (removal of said landscaping fabric). Ah well, just more time to garden. 🤷♀️😝
Thanks so much for this "public service info"! Landscape fabric is SO over used and under effective. It's one of my garden sermons to others.
Wow! I learned something new from you - that explains why you don't see any earthworms under that stuff because like other wildlife they end up eating it as it breaks down, and you know when you have that putrid smell you have got a problem.
I totally agree. I've removed landscape fabrics several times. I hate it, yet people keep using it.
I like the idea of low growing spreading items to keep the weeds down. I use lots of groundcover like small sedum. Weeds don't grow through them at all and every year I pull some off and start a new patch of groundcover
This is great. I live in a forest in the Sierra Foothills. I just spent the the last two weeks extending my veggie garden clearing out blackberries and poison oak. Tomorrow I’m putting down hardware cloth to keep rodents out but knowing where I live, the blackberries and poison oak will come back. From what I get is that cardboard is a good one to keep them at bay. So I’ll start with that tomorrow and hopefully that will work. Should I put the cardboard down first or the wire?
I've mentioned this on every DIY site I'm on. I own a lawn care company and one of the jobs we do is is pull weeds out of flower beds, any that have the fabric where there every week because the weeds just grow right through it, so it's impossible to pull out the roots. Home owners trying to cheap out are going to use hardwood mulch and also never enough that just breaks down making a great place for weeds to grow. One customer I have was using stone, instead of mulch. I told him let me spray total vegetation killer first and do not use any form of weed blocker. Nope, he used "weed blocker fabric" then the stone. He now pays me at least $50.00 a week to just pull weeds.
I still stand by my use of heavy duty fabric under my crushed rock paths in my garden and under my rock in my greenhouse. Also north side of my house with drainage rock where I will never plant anything. All my new beds I now start with cardboard to kill off the grass.
The only time I 've ever used landscape fabric was under 3-4 inch river rocks under some trees. The roots from the trees did not allow me to plant
anything! So I put down landscape fabric and then the rocks. I've had very few weeds, the shade from the trees, the rocks and the fabric are keeping the space very tidy. It's all been there at least 10 years.
Good to know.. I had a couple of creek beds put in last year that are mostly in shade and there is landscape fabric under them. I hate it in general because I've been digging it out for years elsewhere so I was really not sure about this. Did get some grass growing in it after DH seeded his 'shade mix' all over the place.. (thanks hon 🙄). But otherwise seems fine.
Think about the micro plastics too. Especially if you’re growing vegetables and things.
Chiming in with the regret. I think the ubiquity of this fabric throughout gardens is the perceived “ease” factor. Property owners want a “look” but many don’t want maintenance. Landscapers typically don’t come back after they’ve installed a plan - and lots of owners couldn’t afford a regular garden service anyway. And once you’ve installed it (and plantings) there is a fear factor based upon how much was invested - woe if you go to the hard work to pull it up and then the weeds take over. 😜 I have been pulling it back, bit by bit, foot by foot. And guess what? Very few weeds pop up. My goal is to completely cover the berm that stretches the width of our property with ground covers and low shrubs. But again, it’s about the “ease” - and it’s not easy! There is no such thing as a “no maintenance” anything, really. The work has to be done. Don’t install it if you don’t want the work. Great discussion, Jim!
I'm in NE Florida and the available "wood chips" seems to be pine bark mulch. Chip Drop is a possibility, but there's no way to know ahead of time what types of chips you'll get, and most of the time it's pine.
For me, in the crazy flowerbeds I had in our past house where I used it, it was the only way I could have a fighting chance against the super strong Portuguese Parsley and the Pepermint. Oh and the Fennel!
Yes it smelled nice but no, it never let anything else grow and they took over the flowerbeds. I got rid of them and they always came back strong lol - The only way was to cover them, plant something that needed just a small hole to pop from the black fabric and nice rocks on top, and if it lasts only 5 years or so, it's 5 years I won. I didn't want to use nasty chemicals... but I guess in my future projects for the next house flowerbeds I will use something different
Great video and thank you for showing we could see in the future if we tried to use it.
The best way to have the best soil is to mulch it before weeds try to grow.
Just like with what you did with the wood chips on top of the clay soil (GA Red clay is notorious in my area).
You can free wood chips or mulch in most cases. The local cities and counties may have a place for you to pick it up.
Some locations may just dump it right in your yard for you! You may need a wheelbarrow and a rake but it will be worth it in the long run for sure.
Keep up the great work!
I recently pulled up some fabric with woodchips on top. The woodchips, of course, started to decompose. Very aggressive weeds came right through the holes of the plastic pins that keep it in place, and where the parts overlap. Weeds finds it's way. It was vey smelly, just like you say. I will use cardboard, or newspapers, as a short-term. Only to give me time enough to get up to speed in this garden.
I moved in here for only 2 mths ago. In the mean time I just don't want the weed to think that they can still grow all over the show. When they are weakened a bit, I will get them up by the roots. I know the roots of our weed in Denmark goes very deep, and side-ways, and entangled in the roots of other plants as well. But, after some rain, it is easy to get them, follow their lines, and eventually get up as much as possible. It is impossible to plant anything, because there's just roots all over the place. Thick as roots from the hedge, or shrubs. They have quite a network down there! Thanks for your follow-up video.
My front yard is full of broken down landscape fabric AND gravel a previous owner put down. It's a nightmare. In my side yard it appears someone had the idea to re-use plastic grocery bags as landscape fabric. The dogs keep digging them up. That too was a bad idea, but they are not broken down as much as the landscape fabric.
It looks like no fun anytime I see it
Appreciate the tips on mulch timing Jim
Question - if you DID have landscape fabric in place, would you still fertilize in the same manner (tossing fertilizer on top of your mulch), or would you pull the mulch back and make sure that you were placing the fertilizer under the fabric? Thanks.
What would you suggest in place of gravel for a path / utility space? Wood chips maybe?
Wood chips work great. Try the chipdrop website to get them for free
Agree with you! I could have saved myself time and money a few years back. The weeds grew on top of fabric then I had to pull it out. Now my soil drains better and weeds aren't growing on top of the fabric.
Utilizing the Woven Weed Fabric in a 'Veggie' garden is a little different though, because you can tell when it stops doing what you put it down for and can pull it BEFORE it completely breaks down. Also, in a 'Raised bed' you can pull it from the top as soon as the growing season is over in an attempt to preserve it. However, of course ANY weed fabric will break down, it happened in my flower and bush spaces just as it has for many of us. My question would be in a 'Veggie' garden application, how long does the *Commercial 'Woven' fabric actually last?* When should you look at pulling it up and REPLACING it? Does it erode the soil underneath or just not do anything needful?
As a landscaper, 100% agree with this. Landscape fabric really is terrible, know that smell all to well. I’ve seen plenty of house flippers throw it down to get rid of weeds, then 6 months later the new owner calls us to get rid of it.
Thank you. It is normally the landscapers defending it!
@@JimPutnam My business is more on the long term garden maintenance side, rather than new installs so we do factor in all the things you are talking about. We do use it in a few situations, rock gardens as mentioned, but don't care for the stuff myself. Would never put it in my garden!
What about as the floor base for a hoophouse? Is there a better alternative? I have a vole problem so I need a way to keep them out of my hoophouse.
I use weed/landscape barriers as a base for the "pea stone gravel" on top, for the walkways between my raised beds. Not in the garden itself. The landscape barriers work very well too to block any weeds coming up in the stone walkway.
So, I first dug out about 3 inches of soil evenly in the walkway area (about 3 feet wide), then pounded it flat using an 8x8" steel tamper. Then I placed down the landscape barrier fabric careful to add some overlap up over the edges before cutting it. I secured the fabric using "sod staples" every four inches. Then, before adding in the pea gravel to the walkway, I wanted to first clean off the stones.
The bags contain a kind of grimy, stone residue in it. I guess that's from the process of bagging and transporting the stones. If you add it to your walkway straightaway, there will be this grime on your shoes or feet for a while. So, I used a wheelbarrow and hose to take care of that. It takes a while but it's worth it. So, I cut open a couple bags and poured them into a metal wheel barrow, and then used a hose to fill the barrow with water so it rose over the stones. Then I agitated the stones with my hands, and poured out the dirty water slowly. (Be careful not to over-tilt the barrow as its kind of heavy and you'll pour out all the stones). I repeated this process a couple times until the water appeared clear.
Then, used a shovel to transfer the pea gravel atop the landscape barrier. Lots of shoveling, but it began to fill in. And it was well worth it. I have a bit of clay soil, so the hollow of the walkway lip held the pea gravel perfectly inside. Walking on it was firm but pleasant too. Especially barefoot. It was like a massage! It gave way a bit, but filled in as you walked. And after a rain, the pea gravel glistens.
Jim, I am doing a dry River bed 20 ft by 3 ft in area I am using stones of varied sizes, do you recommend using the fabric?.
Thank you for all your great videos.
What barrier would you recommend for a gravel walkway and gravel patio that are surrounded by garden spaces? I would be afraid to lay a lot of gravel in hardscape spaces around garden spaces without some sort of barrier.
Aluminum edging is what I use, sold at Lowe's and home Depot in black, brown and green.
Perhaps Jim could show examples of where gravel paths/patios are appropriate. We have had tremendous run-off over the past 10+ years in various areas off our lawn and into our woods (and done to a river). In some of the flatter areas, we have created wood chip paths. Could wood chips be better for your situation? You do have to replenish every year or so, but the cost of materials and ease of work, is certainly better than stone! Good luck to you.
MDWalker that is a great idea for a video!
@@mdwalker3034 I have very similar situation, problem
I have ripped out all grades of fabric, and the ground below is always awful. The plants you want above struggle to perform their best and the water runs off more than through. The weeds that grow through are the top echelon of thugs tearing big holes in what was originally keeping the grass and other weeds at bay. Removing years old placed gravel with fabric underneath was delightful though, I just pulled the fabric and stones in one fell swoop into an easy pile. I highly recommend fabric under gravel with the caveat of keeping soil from washing in. Leaf blowers are great to remove debris if put to the right settings for the right job. Large enough stones won't blow or get sucked up.
question what about the heavy plastic ground cover is taken up yearly with the drip irrigation system, do you feel this is still a negative?
Finally a video that exposes this crap. No
Plastic is an answer in landscape. I’m a landscaper around Boston. Weed material is the Worst invention ever
I’ve heard you mention wood chips a few times, but I’m not sure what you mean. How big are they? Where did you get them? What I’ve seen before are large, thick, half dollar or larger sized chips.
Excellent video. I agree with Jim about everything he said. I experienced this for myself many years ago and ended up pulling it all up. I've also experienced the gravel issue as well. Question: if I were to start a flowerbed in a grass area, could I just till up the ground or do I need to remove the top layer if grass? Would I have grass and weed problems if I just till without removing grass? Hope this is not a dumb question.
Kayla, you will have to remove the grass. I dig it up with a shovel and place it in parts of the yard that are bare.
Not a dumb question at all, Kayla! Before you dig, check out Charles Dowding No Dig method for starting garden beds right on top of grass. You will find him on YT. One caveat: I also want to create new beds where there is grass but this is where sod was laid with plastic net backing (didn't know that was part of the bargain) and I have to rip that up anyway. So check for that first...
For my limited needs, I'm going to use the fabric. WHAT brand is that heavy duty stuff you said you used in the nursery?
Hi Jim,enjoy your videos.
I like the blue color of the colorado blue spruce but dislike the sharpe prickly needles. Do you know if there are any balsam firs that have the soft needles that are as blue as the spruce?
I used landscape fabric in a project to create an small wildflower meadow to kill all the weeds in the ground. Then I removed it after about 6 months and spreaded the wildflower seeds. The flowers grew fine, but I wonder if I can just use cardboard or a thick layer of leaf mulch to cover the area of the weeds and then I would spread the wildflower seeds. Would that also work?
It should work the same
I helped my friend lay almost and acre of the high-grade weed barrier in Hawaii. It's only been 3 months and it's already shredding and weeds are growing though. I don't have the heart to tell him that there will be bits of plastic in the soil on his farm for generations to come... Heartbreaking.
I find weedblock useful for planting tree seedlings in a wind block. As it will block weeds for at least the first year or so till the seedling gets established and then it really doesn’t matter after that.
I am still finding fabric on one side of my backyard after living here for years. I thought I got most of it but a lot seems to be far down and then when I plant something I find more. So frustrating and I am beginning to think that’s why I have a hard time growing some things there.
When I purchased my home, there was a large gravel patio area. I didn’t take care of it and now it is filled with week. I can clean out the ones I see but how do I keep them from returning?
Would it be okay to use the weed barrier on the gravel driveways to prevent the yearly weeds growing?
My husband insisted on using this fabric everywhere. I just go around each new season as I plant new things and cut it out🥴
We’re struggling to dig/ plant on property we just bought bc we’re hitting two different layers of landscape fabric buried about 5” below and 5” further down. SUCKS! Existing tree/shrub roots were suppressed/hampered and huge air spaces formed under them, resulting in impaired nutrient uptake and growth.
Makes sense to me. Thanks Jim!
The illusion of control... but Nature always finds a way to infiltrate a fabric. Better to use the gifts she gives us (leaves, ground covers, mulch), yes?
For sure!!
humm interesting my problems maybe different here in the Philippines. grass and weeds much worse then i ever had in usa... you mention cardboard is better. problem is cardboard sheds water, i guess if i had drip irrigation but hard to find that here as well as this is a peso budget, my long term plan is raised beds- asp composting- mix vermicast etc, worms already expanding but will be year before i have tons of vermicast. so i was planning to use a little weed barrier because the weeds are so overwhelming. it would take hours every day with 2 or 3 people to keep the weeds and grass in check-- yes it really grows that fast. i am impressed that you say after 20 years the weed barrier will be a mess i had no idea how long it would last and thought if i had to replace every year i would do good ( growing crops year round no winter here- 12 hours sun year around)
, well hopefully the raised beds will give me the weed control i need i can replace the top few inches every year as needed use that soil for fruit trees maybe ,and add new soil mix to keep weeds under control
i have on order 4 rolls of the heavy duty kind guess i will experiment and hope within a year to start replacing with raised beds hope it will help for a year. would you say from your experience that after 2 growing seasons you can still pick it up in one piece?
Well knowing this will save me money.
I totally agree with you, i don't like them at all! but what do you recommend to use under the gravel o stone groundcover? We havent found agood option for that :(
What about removing the professional weed barrier when you notice is starting to breakup but is still in good shape to come out in big pieces?