Hello! My grandparents, Tom and Anna Johnson, managed the Skiway Hotel when the tram was built, run, and then dismantled. One thing--it is pronounced "sky-way", not "ski-way". And I was told that these were real Trailways buses that were suspended from the cables. Another fun fact--there was a pond where the swimming pool is, and my older brother, sister, and I would go out there with strings on sticks to try to catch the fish! I was born in 1956 so never got to ride the tram, but I heard so many stories over the years. Another reason the tram was dismantled was that it often stopped on the ride because of ice build up on the cables. Your story here is fascinating and so fun for me to watch! Feel free to contact me if you want more info!
Very cool, thanks for sharing! I did come across some mentions of a "Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Johnson" who managed that building and had also apparently managed the Multnomah Falls lodge. That pronunciation of Skiway was mentioned in one of my sources but I wasn't able to verify it anywhere else, so thanks for the confirmation.
That sounds like some pretty interesting. I like engineering (science) and history/human society/culture, so learning about a cable car that uses friction and a stationary cable to climb is pretty fascinating. So lucky to be subscribed to this guy. :)
@@peterdibble You are welcome! And yes, my grandparents ran the Multnomah Falls lodge, restaurant, and gift shop, then moved to the Skiway. After the Skiway they went to the Vendome Hotel in Arlington (left when the John Day Dam was built and the town was flooded), and then the Ochoco Inn in Prineville (that burned down in 1966, I think). They lived an interesting life but tragedy seemed to follow them at times! Let me know if you'd like more info!
Your grandparents live in Oregon Linda Gaufin My grandparents on my mother s side lived in Oregon they are deceased now but I m glad I had an opportunity to visit Oregon last June
One of its issues was ice build up on the drive cables. The bus would approach the towers and the wheels would slip while going up the steeper incline. The driver would have to back down and get a bit of a run at it, just fast enough to crest the tower but not so fast as to shake the thing apart. Wasn't a good advertisement for people who were already trying to avoid slick roads.
It's a problem that traditional aerial tramways avoid completely, as the drive motors and bull wheels that drive the traction cable are sheltered from the elements in the terminal buildings.
@@Milosz_Ostrow plus if the cable is constantly moving not only it breaks the ice forming up, but you can basically scrape it off, heat up and dry it as it reaches the stations. Plus it allows you to have an easy way to examine the cables as they go around through the station, its all is my guess though.
Great story with fantastic graphics! I was on ski patrol with Mt.Hood Ski Patrol for 22 years. I remember when I was assigned to patrol at T-line, I'd always try to hitch a ride up. Finally at the end of the day if conditions allowed, we would race down the old tramline, most of it being called The Glade trail. We were pretty good, and it was amazing how fast you could get down to Govt. Camp- 3 miles. Those were great days. Also, the Glade trail terminates very close to Charlie's bar, where we would stash our skis and spend the next hours 'debriefing'...
WoW! when I first saw the picture of the skiway I thought it was a joke, a spoof. I can't believe this thing actually existed! and your video was so absolutely well done! thank you for making this!
I started at age 5 in 1957, not long after the tram was abandoned. Dad would us to Timberline then we would ski down the old trail to GC, then Dad would hitch a ride back up to get the car. Mom would get my brother and I a hot chocolate at the Huckleberry Inn. We did that for several years, what a fun inexpensive way to get started skiing.
I love your stories Peter. I've skied Timberline and Mt. Hood Meadows and I had never heard about this. You come up with such fascinating Oregon history.
I read about it via Mt. Hood - A Complete History by Jack Grauer, who just passed away Jan 29th at the ripe age of 102. He wrote the book in 1975, but I have known about it since as early as I can recall - probably via post cards etc.
Eric...same here. I lived in Portland for years and visited Mt. Hood frequently and this is also the first time I heard about it. The other failed project that I did know about was the proposed Mt. Hood I-5 link that would have provided freeway access directly to Mt. Hood from Portland. In fact I think the unfinished link is still visible..
Oh the crazy ideas and engineering of the post WWII era. I have talked to a couple of old school loggers that were familiar with sky hook. They say it was the scariest thing they’d ever dealt with.
I've lived in Oregon for all 28 years of my life and this channel has already taught me that Mt Hood had this and we had our own similar-to Knotts berry farm amusement park near the coast. Thanks for the great videos!
I just have a soft spot for things that were obsolete before they were completed... I didn't even know about this one, and I'm glad it popped up in my feed!
It was a good idea but, man it looked like a scary ride. Every time I see photos, I always wondered how those cables were able to hold the heavy busses. Would love to see a modern version from Gov. Camp. Sure would beat the traffic to Timberline.
No it is an absurd idea? Why put the motor in the gondola? Why? Regular ski lifts and gondolas were invented then and they work. You put the engine in the terminal and pull the cable...
I guess they stuck too much with the original thing and the idea of using a bus. Today's aerial trams can transport more people in even two decks at a much higher speed. The basic flaw was using a non-equalizing design. Every suspended cable car is able to adjust to the grade it is running. And even cable cars on tracks can adjust to the incline. Then came the noise factor. But that could have overcome with some effort. The single line approach was also not helpful. So in essence wrong thing and not using what already worked better.
@@V100-e5q yes but the point is those trams existed already when they built that. Mainly here in Europe but it is not as if US and European engineers don't talk to each other.
I really enjoyed learning this bit of history. I think the conversation would be incomplete without talking about parking lots. Every year ski resorts become more crowded and parking becomes more difficult and time consuming. The obvious solution is to increase parking capacity and pave over more and more of the mountain. I wonder when ski resorts like timberline will have to start building multi-level parking garages at the base of the mountain. Although the engineering and design back in the 1950s was not up to par, the gondola system makes a lot of sense.
Crazy to know the history about buildings I've been forced to lay in the snow in front of to remove chains. Literally gasped when I recognized it! Please keep these videos coming, I love them so much
Oregonian here. I had no idea this ever existed. My family used to go sledding at government camp but this was slightly before my time. Thank you so much for touching on Oregon's history. Excellent video.
Just found your channel.. I love it!..Brings back such great memories...Skiing Mt Hood & Government Camp.. Tubing with the kids in the 90s. A lifetime ago.. Thank you.. I am a fan of your channel...
Well. This video was completely NOT a waste of time. I saw that crazy thumbnail and thought "yeah, sure... That never happened." But I clicked just to see. Not disappointed. Interesting bit of history, great story, and great actual films of the thing in action. Very cool!
mt hood meadows saved some of the materials from this and used them to build their new sahale lodge/rental shop, theres a plaque on the second floor next to the coffee shop that has a little blurb of info on it
This is the best and most well presented video documentary I have yet seen on you tube. It's well edited, beautifully narrated, has no pregnant pauses and no silly graphics. Combined with a engineering marvel few have heard of, including myself, it's quality is right up there with a National Geographic documentary. Just a nice style, easy to watch and fascinating!😉
I love the OHSU hospital tram 🚊 line that goes down to the Willamette river. I live in Corvallis, Oregon. My mom runs a small local Pegasus frame studio in the historical old world deli building. In our space, there is a historical truck elevator, because a long time ago it used to be a auto repair shops upstairs in the historical building. It's really cool. There is a secret area above the attic where you climb 🪜 up into the elevator lift engine area. It's this huge turn of the century machine. The new building owners just told us they are thinking of getting it running again and keeping the history alive. It is totally possible, the machine looks like it could get up and running with very little effort. They sure built things to last back then. Thanks for covering Oregon related history and engineering projects. It's facinating. I love learning about the history of my home state. The history of camp Adair and E.E. Wilson is something I want to learn more about. I learned when moving in, that a apartment I rented for 2 yrs in Albany, Oregon was the living quarters of the camp Adair military officers and their families. Apparently camp Adair was the 2nd most populous "town" in Oregon during this era but they never declared Adair a town.
Ben McReynolds: I was born & raised in Corvallis & moved to Washington in 2006. I'm 73 now, so that's a fair stretch of time! I really miss it! About Adair: as a kid & then raising my own kids Adair was the best place to pick blackberries. There were lots of paved streets & parking lots where you could drive right up to the vines. Standing in the bed of a pickup got you to the high berries, always the biggest & best, the ones at the top! I'd be surprised if they're all gone now. Seemed like miles & miles of blacktop & vines. When I was in high school, there was a skating rink north Corvallis on 99W: Lake Park roller rink. I'm not sure if it's still there. Anyway, before I was old enough to drive, my Sunday School class would go out there on Fri or Sat nights. The teacher would take a van full of us (mostly teenaged girls) if we promised to be at church that weekend. At that time Adair was still a military base & there were always some soldiers for us to flirt & skate with. Great memories. Across the highway (99W) from Adair is/was a residential road that does a huge loop, getting back to the highway near the landfill. There were quonset huts set up there, I presume to store ammo. When the base was decommissioned, they were sold to interested land owners. You may be able to still see some. You need to look very closely, since the vegetation has grown up around them. I've seen them used as barns, storage buildings, & an automotive shop. In Albany & around Linn & Benton Counties there are many buildings from Adair which were moved onto lots. They are used as small homes & also as the "starter" for other homes which were added to, making them the invisible interiors. I hope these tips help a little. I've had fun remembering 😌
This is the most concise complete history of the tram I've seen. I've skied Glade dozens of times. In HS we would take a ski bus from Portland then ski down Glade and take Greyhound back.
Peter: this is the 4th or 5th of your videos I've watched. I subscribed after the 1st. I'm a native Oregonian transplanted to Washington state in 2006. I'm homesick so whenever I see anything about Oregon I click on it. Your articles are very well done. I really appreciate your thorough research and thoughtful presentation of each video. Keep up the great work!
My mom worked at meadows for many years and the people I went school with had parents that worked with my mom. So much of the community revolves around Mt. Hood during the winter!💛it’s a beautiful place!
Thanks for the great video and history! It was a proud moment for me to learn that the Skiway's inspiration came from the Cannon Mountain tramway in Franconia NH, my hometown and home ski area since I was a little kid. I rode the old (and since 1980, the new) Cannon tramway many, many times. The original tramway was built in 1938, the first in North America. Hoping to ski in Oregon someday!
Thanks for this video. I used to ski a lot at Timberline back in the 60's. The Government Camp terminal building was still there as well as the signage. No one had any reliable information on its status and I calmly waited for it to run again. While waiting I would ski the old tram route and the west side Timberline road to get from Timberline down to Government Camp. Leaving a car there was often easier than taking a chance on finding parking at the lodge. Good memories. Makes me feel really, really old. But to the point of the poor design of the system, I cannot believe they did not recognize the failure points and mitigate them from the beginning. I guess that was the state of engineering back in the day.
There are talks for a new Skiway to be built, but I have now heard any dates yet. Timberline lodge fell into disrepair in the 50s and Richard Kohnstam worked with the USFS to become the new concessionaire, it is now a fine facility to visit and the ski area is highly expanded.
I used to work at the Timberline AKA The Overlook Hotel And stay in government camp at Timberline's apartments. An I Never Even Heard of this. It looks awesome, and sad it's not flying around anymore. Great video as always an I love how we have a great PNW RUclipsr to show the rest of the world that we're more then just weird people:)
@@bayareanewman1566 After looking at the comments , I was surprised how few people knew this was the place used for the exteriors of the Shining. The interiors and the hedge maze were filmed in England though. Odd this video made no mention of all this
I know many Americans back in the day where REALLY into " The Biggest" and "The First" things but this was a horrible idea right from way before it started. Why that Dr got it in his head that a tramway had to have a bus, instead of using proven tech that already existed is an amazing thing. That Dr and his team got caught up in the gears of that log hauler thing and could not for the life of them let go of such a terrible terrible idea. Why did not that Dr just start the ball rolling for quadrupling the width of the road going up, and buy 2 of the giant snow movers for the site? Peter Dibble, I was anticipating a disaster of that bus falling and killing a few dozen people, but that goodness that some amount of over engineering went into this monstrosity. The vid was REALLY well done and researched. Thanks so much.I am subscribing Peter.
Good question. This: "they could not for the life of them let go of such a terrible terrible idea." I can imagine it being yet another example of 'Groupthink' - where individuals with reservations tend to shut up purely to maintain the 'harmony' of the whole group dynamic. Entirely too many engineering and marketing failures have been attributed to this unfortunate effect. In two words: "Collective Stupidity".
Great history telling! Spent many childhood years in Government Camp and skiing the Glade trail, but never knew the full story of the supposed tram long gone by my time.
On the topic: why do something simple, cheap and working, when you can do it complicated, expensive and poorly …. 🤔 Loved the video and, since we’ve to Oregon twice, last time almost 10 years ago, I really would love to return and see the spots you are showing.
Oh man, that has to be one of the most absurd and gadgetbahn-y transport systems I've ever seen. A great reminder that you should probably not try to be an 'innovator' at any cost, because established systems have a reason they are established...they work.
I disagree. Not all wild innovations pan out, but many pave the way for similar technology that does. IBM had a perfectly functional tablet computer out years before the iPod became ubiquitous, but it just never caught on. Apple, however, being great innovators, designers and marketers, refined the idea, and marketed it to an existing fanbase that would come to embrace it, and encourage other companies to make similar products. Imagine my surprise after seeing the failure of the IBM tablet, the utter success of the iPad. I swore that they were going to be a fad that never lasted, and yet here we are. Conversely, I predicted the rise of smartphones back in the late 90s - to this day, I'm surprised they took so long to come out, but I believe it was mostly due to technological limitations. There are other similar stories throughout recent and distant history, but this is the best one I can think of.
@@DeaconG1959 While the first stage landings are awesome, what really makes SpaceX rockets competitive is their production. Musk transitioned from the almost handbuilt model of Old Space rocketry to an nearly assembly-line approach that allows him to produce Falcons at a much lower cost. Musk also based his rockets on proven principles and techniques that had been vetted by NASA experimental data. He chose where to break with tradition very carefully. Whereas the Mt. Hood Skiway's underlying technology is far worse than known solutions--gondola lifts and aerial tramways--that had been used in the European ski industry of the time.
@@DeaconG1959 Space X: Hold my beer. Take a look at "Star Ship" to transport people. The guy also claimed he invented "Hyper Loop", more like a 100 year old invention dressed for the 21st century, lol. And lately, what about the Vagas tunnel, people are still defending that shambles.
@@edgarwalk5637 Starship will be sitting on the Moon long after SLS has blown itself up on Pad 39. As for Hyperloop and The Boring Company, both of these companies have stalled (at least Hyperloop has some kind of experimental hardware out there). Hyperloop simply did not figure out their infrastructure was unworkable and it won't fly because of it (suspending semi-evacuated tubes on pylons is begging for trouble). The Boring Company will get traction if and only if they drop the idea of transporting cars and go to a modified commuter rail package. Not everything is a hit, but if you don't try, you end up stagnating and becoming irrelevant. Sometimes stuff just has to crash and burn. It's the risk you take.
Outstanding work as always. Really love all your work, and I hope that subscriber count continues to grow. Your stuff is as good as anything I've seen and you easily deserve 100x as many subs as you have.
Thanks, I enjoyed this presentation and the explanation of this historic line. The buses had bodies by Kenworth-Pacific that were similar to their school, city, and trolley coaches. The only thing missing from all information that I've seen over many years is who manufactured the 2 engines. I am Head Archivist of the Pacific Bus Museum in Fremont, CA.
I grew up on Mount Hood and it's soo weird seeing a video about a place where I've seen everything (in the current photos) with my own eyes. Great video and a good watch!
Wow, that is amazing, obscure, fascinating, and well-delivered ... all the things I want from this kind of vid! This video deserves a bit of virality, imo. All I can do is give you this engagement, but good luck. ;)
As a born and raised local of the Hood it’s extremely thrilling to watch this video and with so many views already just a week after release💛💛💛💛Thank you! I love you this! Always appreciate the videos. Rep💛OR
What a well done documentary... interesting, not too long, and using a pleasant live voice instead of the awful monotone computerized audio that many use today! Great job!
Hiking in the area a few years back, along some areas of the Glade Trail to Timberline from Govy you can still see cable remnants. Thank you for telling the story!
As an Oregonian I am always happy to find a great history documentary about my state. I had only heard whispers about this Skiway, so this filled in my knowledge well. Thank you!
Another awesome video!Thank you for your time and effort.This is one of my favorite channels.Dont give up!I know you must not be making much from your videos, which shows your love for this material.
Congrats, you made it into TriMet’s Rider Insider newsletter this month with this video!!! Awesome to see a fellow local cover fascinating topics like this one. Best of luck and keep up the good work :)
What a truly half-baked idea. "Let's not use an established and proven technology, let's get an inexperienced company to take an enormously heavy bus and dangle it from a wire -of course it'll work!"
Fascinating video! there was an Aerial Tramway in Niagara Falls, Ontario since 1916 running over the Whirlpool Rapids too, but it doesn't ascend like the mountainous sort.
yeah, steep climbs make it sooo much harder to operate these. It's part of why a traditional ski-lift has the cable PULLED by motors, and not used as a hanging rail track. But I wonder if this route is too long for that/ hmm....
i learned a bit about this at the skyway bar and grill down the mountain. they have some of the old posters on the walls from this. sad that they never put in a tram, as this could have really opened up some ski terrain...
I remember seeing this operation as a kid when we went thru Gov't Camp. When older, skied a few times at Timberline, mostly Meadows & Ski-Bowl. Never went down the Glade trail. Lifetime away.
Wow my dad went to Sandy high (class of 1965) while he lived at the mountain air motel in brightwood (his mom owned it) and used to ski at government camp, I mentioned this tram to him and he never heard of it! It came and went pretty darn quick.
thank you peter!! your stories are always awesome! ive been a regular snowboarder at timberline for 20+ years now and my boys and i used to ski the "alpine trail" down to gov camp and hitchhike back up the mountain when we didnt have money to buy lift tickets..i always wondered why there were these cleared spots all the way down to gov camp... it was the aerial skiway!! so yea.... fun fact... kids today use that path to ski/snowboard down to gov camp lol...
I grew up in Oregon and was an avid skier, even lettering in High School on our ski team. I had not ever heard of this, thank you for your well researched video!
it didn't last, but still, it was someone thinking big and going for it. Those are qualities that don't always work but when they do it can be amazing.
A few great lessons learned here: 1. While you may have no serious competition for the next few years, the prosperous conditions will not last. 2. While you may have novel and dreamy ideas about what to offer, you'll see full reality once you actually show up at the bridge and cross it. 3. While some people can appreciate a risk, most will not and a never-ending campaign to retain popularity will become unsustainable. The illusion of prosperity is as fleeting as the spectacle of attention itself.
Wow, this is cool. I've snowboarded and skied at Mt.Hood for over 35 years. I've seen photos of the tram and was told it was used for the building of the lodge, but obviously that is completely wrong. You can see the clearing for the skyway all the way down from Timberline to Government camp, in fact a fun run is down the Alpine run that parallels and uses some of the original clearing. Alpine is a fun run but you have to hitchhike back up if your car is at Timberline.
Thanks for the video. The Cannon Mountain tram is still in operation- rebuilt in the 80s. That's now old, and talk about the future is underway. Replacement costs estimate 25-35 million in a time when our winters are getting warmer and dryer. edit: I lived in Oregon as a kid, Cannon can't hold a candle to Hood.
You know? Unless you were actually there... A lot of things like this wouldn't even be known by anyone, if it weren't for videos like this.. I grew up in Oregon in that era and i didn't even know about that skyway... Thank you for making this.
Thanks for showing what remains today. Would have been cool if they just left the buses up top as a warming hut or something. I love when ski resorts have their old snow cats and stuff on display.
Wow, it's amazing that either a bus manufacturer took their original bus design and just double-fronted it or that a chopper company would take the front halves of two buses and weld them together back-to-back!
That is such a Rube Goldberg gadgetbahn that it slams through the wall of impractical right into endearingly stupid. They didn't even have to convert it to gondalas. They could have reworked it into a Roosevelt Island aerial tramway, keeping the buses as passenger cars.
Hello! My grandparents, Tom and Anna Johnson, managed the Skiway Hotel when the tram was built, run, and then dismantled. One thing--it is pronounced "sky-way", not "ski-way". And I was told that these were real Trailways buses that were suspended from the cables. Another fun fact--there was a pond where the swimming pool is, and my older brother, sister, and I would go out there with strings on sticks to try to catch the fish! I was born in 1956 so never got to ride the tram, but I heard so many stories over the years. Another reason the tram was dismantled was that it often stopped on the ride because of ice build up on the cables. Your story here is fascinating and so fun for me to watch! Feel free to contact me if you want more info!
Very cool, thanks for sharing! I did come across some mentions of a "Mr. and Mrs. Thomas Johnson" who managed that building and had also apparently managed the Multnomah Falls lodge. That pronunciation of Skiway was mentioned in one of my sources but I wasn't able to verify it anywhere else, so thanks for the confirmation.
That sounds like some pretty interesting. I like engineering (science) and history/human society/culture, so learning about a cable car that uses friction and a stationary cable to climb is pretty fascinating. So lucky to be subscribed to this guy. :)
@@peterdibble You are welcome! And yes, my grandparents ran the Multnomah Falls lodge, restaurant, and gift shop, then moved to the Skiway. After the Skiway they went to the Vendome Hotel in Arlington (left when the John Day Dam was built and the town was flooded), and then the Ochoco Inn in Prineville (that burned down in 1966, I think). They lived an interesting life but tragedy seemed to follow them at times! Let me know if you'd like more info!
@@lindagaudin3409 What an interesting life they lived. Thank you for sharing.
Your grandparents live in Oregon Linda Gaufin My grandparents on my mother s side lived in Oregon they are deceased now but I m glad I had an opportunity to visit Oregon last June
One of its issues was ice build up on the drive cables. The bus would approach the towers and the wheels would slip while going up the steeper incline. The driver would have to back down and get a bit of a run at it, just fast enough to crest the tower but not so fast as to shake the thing apart. Wasn't a good advertisement for people who were already trying to avoid slick roads.
yikes!
That just sounds spooky.
It's a problem that traditional aerial tramways avoid completely, as the drive motors and bull wheels that drive the traction cable are sheltered from the elements in the terminal buildings.
Or you could use chains instead off cables
@@Milosz_Ostrow plus if the cable is constantly moving not only it breaks the ice forming up, but you can basically scrape it off, heat up and dry it as it reaches the stations. Plus it allows you to have an easy way to examine the cables as they go around through the station, its all is my guess though.
Great story with fantastic graphics!
I was on ski patrol with Mt.Hood Ski Patrol for 22 years. I remember when I was assigned to patrol at T-line, I'd always try to hitch a ride up. Finally at the end of the day if conditions allowed, we would race down the old tramline, most of it being called The Glade trail. We were pretty good, and it was amazing how fast you could get down to Govt. Camp- 3 miles. Those were great days. Also, the Glade trail terminates very close to Charlie's bar, where we would stash our skis and spend the next hours 'debriefing'...
I remember doing this with my father 38 years ago when I was 10. Thank you for your comment, I would have never remembered it otherwise.
The best part was probably the "debriefing" ... 🤣🤣
WoW! when I first saw the picture of the skiway I thought it was a joke, a spoof. I can't believe this thing actually existed! and your video was so absolutely well done! thank you for making this!
I started at age 5 in 1957, not long after the tram was abandoned. Dad would us to Timberline then we would ski down the old trail to GC, then Dad would hitch a ride back up to get the car. Mom would get my brother and I a hot chocolate at the Huckleberry Inn. We did that for several years, what a fun inexpensive way to get started skiing.
I love your stories Peter. I've skied Timberline and Mt. Hood Meadows and I had never heard about this. You come up with such fascinating Oregon history.
That s cool Eric Jorgenson I like your story I like Oregon I m glad I had the chance to visit Oregon last June
I read about it via Mt. Hood - A Complete History by Jack Grauer, who just passed away Jan 29th at the ripe age of 102. He wrote the book in 1975, but I have known about it since as early as I can recall - probably via post cards etc.
Eric...same here. I lived in Portland for years and visited Mt. Hood frequently and this is also the first time I heard about it. The other failed project that I did know about was the proposed Mt. Hood I-5 link that would have provided freeway access directly to Mt. Hood from Portland. In fact I think the unfinished link is still visible..
Oh the crazy ideas and engineering of the post WWII era. I have talked to a couple of old school loggers that were familiar with sky hook. They say it was the scariest thing they’d ever dealt with.
I've lived in Oregon for all 28 years of my life and this channel has already taught me that Mt Hood had this and we had our own similar-to Knotts berry farm amusement park near the coast. Thanks for the great videos!
I just have a soft spot for things that were obsolete before they were completed... I didn't even know about this one, and I'm glad it popped up in my feed!
It was a good idea but, man it looked like a scary ride. Every time I see photos, I always wondered how those cables were able to hold the heavy busses.
Would love to see a modern version from Gov. Camp. Sure would beat the traffic to Timberline.
Indeed, too bad they didn't build a more conventional replacement a bit sooner.
No it is an absurd idea? Why put the motor in the gondola? Why? Regular ski lifts and gondolas were invented then and they work. You put the engine in the terminal and pull the cable...
There was talk of it a few years ago, but I don't know what happened--obviously nothing!
I guess they stuck too much with the original thing and the idea of using a bus. Today's aerial trams can transport more people in even two decks at a much higher speed. The basic flaw was using a non-equalizing design. Every suspended cable car is able to adjust to the grade it is running. And even cable cars on tracks can adjust to the incline. Then came the noise factor. But that could have overcome with some effort. The single line approach was also not helpful. So in essence wrong thing and not using what already worked better.
@@V100-e5q yes but the point is those trams existed already when they built that. Mainly here in Europe but it is not as if US and European engineers don't talk to each other.
I really enjoyed learning this bit of history. I think the conversation would be incomplete without talking about parking lots. Every year ski resorts become more crowded and parking becomes more difficult and time consuming. The obvious solution is to increase parking capacity and pave over more and more of the mountain. I wonder when ski resorts like timberline will have to start building multi-level parking garages at the base of the mountain. Although the engineering and design back in the 1950s was not up to par, the gondola system makes a lot of sense.
This is a sign Not of poor engineering....but of bad decisions at the highest levels from people that don't know anything about engineering
Doctors as engineers are not a good mix.
Crazy to know the history about buildings I've been forced to lay in the snow in front of to remove chains. Literally gasped when I recognized it! Please keep these videos coming, I love them so much
PETER!
Thank you. As a 6th Generation Oregonian…I love your stories. They will live on endlessly.
Well done.
Good point 🎯
Oregonian here. I had no idea this ever existed. My family used to go sledding at government camp but this was slightly before my time. Thank you so much for touching on Oregon's history. Excellent video.
A new Peter Dibble! Hell yes!
Just found your channel..
I love it!..Brings back such great memories...Skiing Mt Hood & Government Camp..
Tubing with the kids in the 90s.
A lifetime ago.. Thank you..
I am a fan of your channel...
Fascinating history lesson. Thank you!
Big Car
Hello there! I love your channel!
@@watershed44 Thanks!
@@BigCar2 I'm subscribed to you and watch all your videos!
Well. This video was completely NOT a waste of time. I saw that crazy thumbnail and thought "yeah, sure... That never happened." But I clicked just to see. Not disappointed. Interesting bit of history, great story, and great actual films of the thing in action. Very cool!
I have absolutely no connection to this part of the country but these videos will always fascinate me
mt hood meadows saved some of the materials from this and used them to build their new sahale lodge/rental shop, theres a plaque on the second floor next to the coffee shop that has a little blurb of info on it
Neat! I'll have to check that out.
This is the best and most well presented video documentary I have yet seen on you tube.
It's well edited, beautifully narrated, has no pregnant pauses and no silly graphics.
Combined with a engineering marvel few have heard of, including myself, it's quality is right up there with a National Geographic documentary.
Just a nice style, easy to watch and fascinating!😉
Well said
I love the OHSU hospital tram 🚊 line that goes down to the Willamette river. I live in Corvallis, Oregon. My mom runs a small local Pegasus frame studio in the historical old world deli building. In our space, there is a historical truck elevator, because a long time ago it used to be a auto repair shops upstairs in the historical building. It's really cool. There is a secret area above the attic where you climb 🪜 up into the elevator lift engine area. It's this huge turn of the century machine. The new building owners just told us they are thinking of getting it running again and keeping the history alive. It is totally possible, the machine looks like it could get up and running with very little effort. They sure built things to last back then.
Thanks for covering Oregon related history and engineering projects. It's facinating. I love learning about the history of my home state.
The history of camp Adair and E.E. Wilson is something I want to learn more about. I learned when moving in, that a apartment I rented for 2 yrs in Albany, Oregon was the living quarters of the camp Adair military officers and their families. Apparently camp Adair was the 2nd most populous "town" in Oregon during this era but they never declared Adair a town.
Ben McReynolds: I was born & raised in Corvallis & moved to Washington in 2006. I'm 73 now, so that's a fair stretch of time! I really miss it!
About Adair: as a kid & then raising my own kids Adair was the best place to pick blackberries. There were lots of paved streets & parking lots where you could drive right up to the vines. Standing in the bed of a pickup got you to the high berries, always the biggest & best, the ones at the top! I'd be surprised if they're all gone now. Seemed like miles & miles of blacktop & vines.
When I was in high school, there was a skating rink north Corvallis on 99W: Lake Park roller rink. I'm not sure if it's still there. Anyway, before I was old enough to drive, my Sunday School class would go out there on Fri or Sat nights. The teacher would take a van full of us (mostly teenaged girls) if we promised to be at church that weekend. At that time Adair was still a military base & there were always some soldiers for us to flirt & skate with. Great memories.
Across the highway (99W) from Adair is/was a residential road that does a huge loop, getting back to the highway near the landfill. There were quonset huts set up there, I presume to store ammo. When the base was decommissioned, they were sold to interested land owners. You may be able to still see some. You need to look very closely, since the vegetation has grown up around them. I've seen them used as barns, storage buildings, & an automotive shop. In Albany & around Linn & Benton Counties there are many buildings from Adair which were moved onto lots. They are used as small homes & also as the "starter" for other homes which were added to, making them the invisible interiors.
I hope these tips help a little. I've had fun remembering 😌
This is the most concise complete history of the tram I've seen. I've skied Glade dozens of times. In HS we would take a ski bus from Portland then ski down Glade and take Greyhound back.
Peter: this is the 4th or 5th of your videos I've watched. I subscribed after the 1st. I'm a native Oregonian transplanted to Washington state in 2006. I'm homesick so whenever I see anything about Oregon I click on it. Your articles are very well done. I really appreciate your thorough research and thoughtful presentation of each video. Keep up the great work!
My mom worked at meadows for many years and the people I went school with had parents that worked with my mom. So much of the community revolves around Mt. Hood during the winter!💛it’s a beautiful place!
I remember some of this but I was only 10 years old when it was demolished.
Thanks for such a detailed video.
Thanks for the great video and history! It was a proud moment for me to learn that the Skiway's inspiration came from the Cannon Mountain tramway in Franconia NH, my hometown and home ski area since I was a little kid. I rode the old (and since 1980, the new) Cannon tramway many, many times. The original tramway was built in 1938, the first in North America. Hoping to ski in Oregon someday!
Thanks for this video. I used to ski a lot at Timberline back in the 60's. The Government Camp terminal building was still there as well as the signage. No one had any reliable information on its status and I calmly waited for it to run again. While waiting I would ski the old tram route and the west side Timberline road to get from Timberline down to Government Camp. Leaving a car there was often easier than taking a chance on finding parking at the lodge. Good memories. Makes me feel really, really old.
But to the point of the poor design of the system, I cannot believe they did not recognize the failure points and mitigate them from the beginning. I guess that was the state of engineering back in the day.
Great video. Love historic photos, the music tracks you choose and the narration. Your story telling style is very entertaining.
Your production quality is outstanding & I love the topics you cover - thanks for an awesome way to spend my morning coffee ☕✌
There are talks for a new Skiway to be built, but I have now heard any dates yet. Timberline lodge fell into disrepair in the 50s and Richard Kohnstam worked with the USFS to become the new concessionaire, it is now a fine facility to visit and the ski area is highly expanded.
I used to work at the Timberline AKA The Overlook Hotel And stay in government camp at Timberline's apartments. An I Never Even Heard of this. It looks awesome, and sad it's not flying around anymore. Great video as always an I love how we have a great PNW RUclipsr to show the rest of the world that we're more then just weird people:)
There are some photos in the booths of Huckleberry Inn, but o never heard of it til I saw a video about it either.
Google " The Shining "
YES!! I was like... no way, is that the hotel from the shining??? Went straight to the comments! That's really cool!
@@bayareanewman1566 After looking at the comments , I was surprised how few people knew this was the place used for the exteriors of the Shining.
The interiors and the hedge maze were filmed in England though.
Odd this video made no mention of all this
Please please please keep up the good work. I'm always happy to see you post something new!
I know many Americans back in the day where REALLY into " The Biggest" and "The First" things but this was a horrible idea right from way before it started. Why that Dr got it in his head that a tramway had to have a bus, instead of using proven tech that already existed is an amazing thing. That Dr and his team got caught up in the gears of that log hauler thing and could not for the life of them let go of such a terrible terrible idea. Why did not that Dr just start the ball rolling for quadrupling the width of the road going up, and buy 2 of the giant snow movers for the site? Peter Dibble, I was anticipating a disaster of that bus falling and killing a few dozen people, but that goodness that some amount of over engineering went into this monstrosity. The vid was REALLY well done and researched. Thanks so much.I am subscribing Peter.
Good question.
This: "they could not for the life of them let go of such a terrible terrible idea."
I can imagine it being yet another example of 'Groupthink' - where individuals with reservations tend to shut up purely to maintain the 'harmony' of the whole group dynamic. Entirely too many engineering and marketing failures have been attributed to this unfortunate effect.
In two words: "Collective Stupidity".
Great history telling! Spent many childhood years in Government Camp and skiing the Glade trail, but never knew the full story of the supposed tram long gone by my time.
Despite growing up in Portland and learning to ski on Mt Hood I've never heard of this complicated gizmo! A great history lesson.
On the topic: why do something simple, cheap and working, when you can do it complicated, expensive and poorly …. 🤔
Loved the video and, since we’ve to Oregon twice, last time almost 10 years ago, I really would love to return and see the spots you are showing.
As some would put it... he was bitten by a good idea fairy.
Oh man, that has to be one of the most absurd and gadgetbahn-y transport systems I've ever seen. A great reminder that you should probably not try to be an 'innovator' at any cost, because established systems have a reason they are established...they work.
SpaceX would like to have a word with you.
I disagree. Not all wild innovations pan out, but many pave the way for similar technology that does. IBM had a perfectly functional tablet computer out years before the iPod became ubiquitous, but it just never caught on. Apple, however, being great innovators, designers and marketers, refined the idea, and marketed it to an existing fanbase that would come to embrace it, and encourage other companies to make similar products.
Imagine my surprise after seeing the failure of the IBM tablet, the utter success of the iPad. I swore that they were going to be a fad that never lasted, and yet here we are. Conversely, I predicted the rise of smartphones back in the late 90s - to this day, I'm surprised they took so long to come out, but I believe it was mostly due to technological limitations.
There are other similar stories throughout recent and distant history, but this is the best one I can think of.
@@DeaconG1959 While the first stage landings are awesome, what really makes SpaceX rockets competitive is their production. Musk transitioned from the almost handbuilt model of Old Space rocketry to an nearly assembly-line approach that allows him to produce Falcons at a much lower cost.
Musk also based his rockets on proven principles and techniques that had been vetted by NASA experimental data. He chose where to break with tradition very carefully. Whereas the Mt. Hood Skiway's underlying technology is far worse than known solutions--gondola lifts and aerial tramways--that had been used in the European ski industry of the time.
@@DeaconG1959 Space X: Hold my beer. Take a look at "Star Ship" to transport people. The guy also claimed he invented "Hyper Loop", more like a 100 year old invention dressed for the 21st century, lol. And lately, what about the Vagas tunnel, people are still defending that shambles.
@@edgarwalk5637 Starship will be sitting on the Moon long after SLS has blown itself up on Pad 39.
As for Hyperloop and The Boring Company, both of these companies have stalled (at least Hyperloop has some kind of experimental hardware out there). Hyperloop simply did not figure out their infrastructure was unworkable and it won't fly because of it (suspending semi-evacuated tubes on pylons is begging for trouble). The Boring Company will get traction if and only if they drop the idea of transporting cars and go to a modified commuter rail package.
Not everything is a hit, but if you don't try, you end up stagnating and becoming irrelevant. Sometimes stuff just has to crash and burn. It's the risk you take.
Outstanding work as always. Really love all your work, and I hope that subscriber count continues to grow. Your stuff is as good as anything I've seen and you easily deserve 100x as many subs as you have.
This was so much fun to watch. Thank you, Peter.😊
Thanks, I enjoyed this presentation and the explanation of this historic line. The buses had bodies by Kenworth-Pacific that were similar to their school, city, and trolley coaches. The only thing missing from all information that I've seen over many years is who manufactured the 2 engines. I am Head Archivist of the Pacific Bus Museum in Fremont, CA.
These min-docs are superb! Bravo! Keep 'em coming!
I grew up on Mount Hood and it's soo weird seeing a video about a place where I've seen everything (in the current photos) with my own eyes. Great video and a good watch!
Too bad it was not available for Wendy and Danny to use to escape!
Can you imagine? 😆
Wow, that is amazing, obscure, fascinating, and well-delivered ... all the things I want from this kind of vid! This video deserves a bit of virality, imo. All I can do is give you this engagement, but good luck. ;)
Seriously, I love your videos. Great history and super informative
As a born and raised local of the Hood it’s extremely thrilling to watch this video and with so many views already just a week after release💛💛💛💛Thank you! I love you this! Always appreciate the videos. Rep💛OR
Another excellent and professional video! Thanks for sharing.
I lived in Govy! I remember reading and hearing about all this up there! I miss that little village🤘❄
Wow, born and raised in Portland since 1957. I spent a lot of time on the Mountain and never heard of this thing. Vey well done.
What a well done documentary... interesting, not too long, and using a pleasant live voice instead of the awful monotone computerized audio that many use today! Great job!
Very nice story telling. Thank You!
Hiking in the area a few years back, along some areas of the Glade Trail to Timberline from Govy you can still see cable remnants. Thank you for telling the story!
Wow...I knew absolutely nothing of this.
Thank you.
☮
What a fascinating story. Thanks for all the research and effort to make this video.
FAN!! TAS!! TIC!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! I have been so curious about that lift and you fill in so many gaps 😞🙏
reminds me a lot of hyperloop
Love these vids! Local Oregon flair melts my heart. Thanks for making these!
As an Oregonian I am always happy to find a great history documentary about my state. I had only heard whispers about this Skiway, so this filled in my knowledge well. Thank you!
Mark Gardner - I had only known Timberline Lodge from "The Shining".
I had no idea this skyway existed until i watched this. Fascinating.
This was terrifically well done! I look forward to viewing more videos like this!
Another awesome video!Thank you for your time and effort.This is one of my favorite channels.Dont give up!I know you must not be making much from your videos, which shows your love for this material.
A very well-done video and an interesting look into the past.
Congrats, you made it into TriMet’s Rider Insider newsletter this month with this video!!! Awesome to see a fellow local cover fascinating topics like this one. Best of luck and keep up the good work :)
Hey thanks a lot! I got that email and didn't even realize it was in there! 😆
@@peterdibble No problem haha, I thought it was cool and wanted you to know :)
Yet another gem! I really wish the skyway would've succeeded as I hate driving up to Timberline.
Great quality and very informative! I randomly stumbled upon your channel and I’ve been subscribed ever since
Keep going it’s amazing to know more about Oregon
Peter, nicely put together documentary with great information, a nice (real) voice, and a good length of time! Well done.
Thanks for putting this together. I'm highly critical of poorly done RUclips videos, but I think this one is VERY well done and interesting.
That was a great little doc. We love Timberline!
What a truly half-baked idea. "Let's not use an established and proven technology, let's get an inexperienced company to take an enormously heavy bus and dangle it from a wire -of course it'll work!"
There is now a project again to build a new gondola from Government Camp up to Timberline Lodge.
Great history lesson. I had no idea this ever existed. Thank you.
Thanks for another great video! Exceptional quality as always.
Fascinating video! there was an Aerial Tramway in Niagara Falls, Ontario since 1916 running over the Whirlpool Rapids too, but it doesn't ascend like the mountainous sort.
yeah, steep climbs make it sooo much harder to operate these. It's part of why a traditional ski-lift has the cable PULLED by motors, and not used as a hanging rail track. But I wonder if this route is too long for that/ hmm....
i learned a bit about this at the skyway bar and grill down the mountain. they have some of the old posters on the walls from this. sad that they never put in a tram, as this could have really opened up some ski terrain...
I remember seeing this operation as a kid when we went thru Gov't Camp. When older, skied a few times at Timberline, mostly Meadows & Ski-Bowl. Never went down the Glade trail. Lifetime away.
Wow my dad went to Sandy high (class of 1965) while he lived at the mountain air motel in brightwood (his mom owned it) and used to ski at government camp, I mentioned this tram to him and he never heard of it! It came and went pretty darn quick.
Didn’t appreciate your ending but enjoyed the past history of American ingenuity and imagination!
thank you peter!! your stories are always awesome! ive been a regular snowboarder at timberline for 20+ years now and my boys and i used to ski the "alpine trail" down to gov camp and hitchhike back up the mountain when we didnt have money to buy lift tickets..i always wondered why there were these cleared spots all the way down to gov camp... it was the aerial skiway!! so yea.... fun fact... kids today use that path to ski/snowboard down to gov camp lol...
I grew up on mt hood. I almost died on the road up to Timberline this winter
So glad you’re okay. How scary.
I grew up in Oregon and was an avid skier, even lettering in High School on our ski team. I had not ever heard of this, thank you for your well researched video!
it didn't last, but still, it was someone thinking big and going for it. Those are qualities that don't always work but when they do it can be amazing.
A few great lessons learned here: 1. While you may have no serious competition for the next few years, the prosperous conditions will not last. 2. While you may have novel and dreamy ideas about what to offer, you'll see full reality once you actually show up at the bridge and cross it. 3. While some people can appreciate a risk, most will not and a never-ending campaign to retain popularity will become unsustainable. The illusion of prosperity is as fleeting as the spectacle of attention itself.
Thanks again Peter! Glad I found your page!
Wow, this is cool. I've snowboarded and skied at Mt.Hood for over 35 years. I've seen photos of the tram and was told it was used for the building of the lodge, but obviously that is completely wrong. You can see the clearing for the skyway all the way down from Timberline to Government camp, in fact a fun run is down the Alpine run that parallels and uses some of the original clearing. Alpine is a fun run but you have to hitchhike back up if your car is at Timberline.
When America was still free...Thanks for the upload...Very cool!...Amazing editing...
I have snowboarded mt hood so many times and had no idea that ever existed damn you make Oregon interesting
Excellent upload!!! I don't hardly ever type this on the toobs.
Thanks for the video. The Cannon Mountain tram is still in operation- rebuilt in the 80s. That's now old, and talk about the future is underway. Replacement costs estimate 25-35 million in a time when our winters are getting warmer and dryer.
edit: I lived in Oregon as a kid, Cannon can't hold a candle to Hood.
WOW! thanks for the video I had no idea this existed!
As a Cannon mtn Tram rider! This was a great Story inspired by Cannon!
You know? Unless you were actually there... A lot of things like this wouldn't even be known by anyone, if it weren't for videos like this.. I grew up in Oregon in that era and i didn't even know about that skyway... Thank you for making this.
Thanks for showing what remains today. Would have been cool if they just left the buses up top as a warming hut or something. I love when ski resorts have their old snow cats and stuff on display.
It’s so weird to see my local ski resorts mentioned in videos. I’ve hiked, skied and rode the tram up cannon mt
Wow, it's amazing that either a bus manufacturer took their original bus design and just double-fronted it or that a chopper company would take the front halves of two buses and weld them together back-to-back!
Outstanding production and amazing stories.
That is such a Rube Goldberg gadgetbahn that it slams through the wall of impractical right into endearingly stupid. They didn't even have to convert it to gondalas. They could have reworked it into a Roosevelt Island aerial tramway, keeping the buses as passenger cars.
I feel the biggest issue today is we don’t build things that might not work. The Victorians era saw all sorts of things built just to see what stuck.
That is one Rube Goldberg-ish contraption.