QF 2-Pounder Mk.VIII "Pom Pom": the Royal Navy's WWII Standby
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- Опубликовано: 12 июл 2024
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The final evolution of the Maxim-Nordenfelt 1-Pounder "Pom-Pom" of the 1880s, the QF 2-pounder Mk.VIII was introduced into Royal Navy service in 1930 as an advanced close-in aerial defence weapon. While the Mk.VIII was already becoming obsolescent by the time the Second World War broke out, continual improvements in ammunition and fire direction technology allowed it to serve with distinction through the rest of the conflict and into the 1950s.
0:00 Introduction
1:01 World of Warships Promo
2:35 Early History of the Pom-Pom
6:21 Development of the Mk.VIII
7:29 Mounts and Feed/Firing Systems
10:12 US Navy Consideration of the 2-Pounder
11:02 WWII Debut and Fire Control Systems
12:57 Force Z and Continuing Problems
14:43 Advantages of the 2-Pounder
16:30 Features and Controls
19:22 Outro
SOURCES:
web.archive.org/web/201709290...
www.silverhawkauthor.com/post...
www.keymilitary.com/article/p...
www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_...
www.forposterityssake.ca/RCN-D...
Play World of Warships here: wo.ws/3SGK3R9
Thank you World of Warships for sponsoring this video.
During registration use the code HSF2023 to get for free: 200 doubloons, 1 million credits, 7 Days of Premium Account time, HSF commander Misaki Akeno, and HSF commander Irizaki Mei.
Applicable to new users only.
I know that funding is probably a huge issue but I would like to suggest that the length of the embedded promotion spot is VERY long. That said - you are quickly becoming my favorite channel next to Battleship NJ and Scott Manley.
No.
“Your move, Ian” 😂😂 Fight, fight, fight, fight!
What's kind of funny is that I'm pretty certain that almost everyone watching this video knows exactly who he's talking to/about.
The multiple Pom Pom mounts really were the last great steampunk looking weapons in large scale use.
Exactly!
If they were still available with ammo I bet you would see a Ukrainian technical with a double mount. 😂
@@martinswiney2192 it would certainly be the coolest antidrone system around.
I would give anything to see one of the octuple mounts go full tilt for a 73 second burst.
And they have been used in Star Wars, if I remember correctly, as the turrets on the Millenium Falcon.
And the pom-pom multi-cannon mount inspired many sci-fi weapons, including point defence systems in Babylon 5 (on the eponymous station) and Star Wars.
Still laughing at the Star Wars laser ones with recoil.
@@kevinm3586 the Babylon 5 ones do as well, although it doesn't look like recoil - more machine driven movement.
I love how you mentioned B5 before Star Wars. It's one of my favorite TV shows!
I commented in another of your awesome videos, but it bears repeating. If you were one of my teachers in high school, I would have actually been interested in the subject and most likely pursued whatever subject you were teaching if not as a career, at least more seriously.
You are to be commended for your personal style, expertise and ability to communicate concisely and without any sense of arrogance or condescension.
Keep up the outstanding work you do, and I hope you are rewarded in such a way that motivates you to do so.
Would have understood more 😅
Naa you just fancy men with beards
A big part of the problem in the use of the octuple pom poms against the Japanese torpedo bombers was as that the Prince of Wales lost electricity generation due to a torpedo hit early in the engagement. Her pom poms apparently did not have an effective backup manual form of train and elevation and are not thought to have killed any enemy aircraft. Those on Repulse, which had the problems you stated, plus fire control radars affected by tropical heat, claimed two. The other two losses may have fallen to the one ex Army manually laid Bofors, to the ships' secondary batteries and to various medium calibre and automatic weapons on the escorts. Wiki claims that no less than 28 attacking aircraft were damaged. I really enjoy your channel. Keep up the good work!
You getting like the forgotten weapons of anything not just guns. Well done.
huh, I've always wondered what the funnel-lookin' muzzle device on the bofors and pompom was about (both use one). Not blinding the gun crew really should have been obvious to me....
Yeah the Brits favored the simple conical flash hider, and used them on everything from LMGs to autocannons.
It also increases the barrel recoil, which is essential for both pom-poms and Bofors AA guns as both the Pom-Pom and the Bofors is recoil operated.
In the Pom-Pom, it ensures full travel of the mechanism and proper feeding, in the Bofors, it also increases the rate of fire and ensures a violent enough case ejection.
@@SonsOfLorgar HUH. didn't know that either. It makes sense to take any extra impulse you can get given the weight of both guns.
@DFX2KX 4 months late, i know, but for another good example of both the flash hiding and cycling assistance of the cone is in the AKS or "krink" variant of the AK-74. The shorter barrel meant less powder burn and gas pressure, making a bigger muzzle flash and reducing cyclic force, problems that are both solved conveniently by the conic muzzle.
Yes! Please do the video on ww1/2 fire control systems! The ones on the battleship North Carolina were my fav thing on the ship.
This was really fantastic. Thanks. Great to see such a thorough treatment of an important but frequently overlooked weapon.
Yes, please do a video on WW2 AA fire control. Fascinating topic.
I would love to see one of the late war fire control tables opened up in operation. I suspect that's pretty unlikely.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 - I have some detail photos of the innards of the on-mount mechanical fire control computer for the Swedish Navy equivalent of the British Hazemeyer twin 40mm Bofors mount.
The complexity of just that component (never mind the hydraulic stabilization and the range-only radar) gives one a good idea of why it was such a difficult thing to keep running at sea.
And that was for a short-range system.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 a bunch of old training films are now public domain ruclips.net/video/gwf5mAlI7Ug/видео.html
These guns are exactly what come to mind when I think of naval warfare in WW2.
On the museum ship HMCS Haida there was one of these and every kid wanted to pretend they were firing it
My dad brought back an incense set, two vases and an urn from his time in Vietnam. The vases were made from hammered 40 mm Borfors shells and the urn from melted down shells. It was a true turning swords into plowshares.
The Very Big Maxim
"Your move, Ian."
I totally didn't realise this was one of yours when I clicked on the video! Assumed it was Drachinifel or maybe Ryan from the New Jersey
Delightful to see a review for a naval weapon made so far from the sea!
All the best from an expat Canadian in Africa.
Expat? So you mean immigrant?
@@Desertedhail A dictionary might help you, but probably not.
The framing of the wide shot makes it look like Gilles is a little guy standing behind a regular size gun. I think it's because the shot composition is just like you're watching a Forgotten Weapons video or similar. Great video all the same :)
Like LOTR forced perspective
lol thanks, now I can’t un see it.
Very astute observation on your part.
This presenter is small…that one is far away…
I like where this channel is going keep up the good work.
My friends uncle operated one on a trawler with the RNPS which escorted coasters down and up the north east coast of the uk. They had two of these and two Savage’ guns which were license built Lewis guns at the start. He told me that in late ‘43 they were escorting some tank transporters under instruction - big square shaped barges designed to get tanks on to the beach head. The tank crews had just received Sherman tanks and hadn’t liked the attached .50 cal. BMGs fitted on top of the turrets and had removed them. There was an actual big pile of them at the dock side with maintenance kits and calibration screws and ammo. They nicked four sets and welded them about the trawler. They had to learn how to operate them from the manuals in the boxes. A couple of months later the single Pom-poms were all removed and replace with Oerlikon 20mm cannon. They kept the BMGs though. Particularly good for sinking and blowing ups mines he said (I remember he said that most of the time when you shot at a mine it sank rather than blew up).
Can’t wait for the fire director video. Great video as always
3:47 Very interesting, I didn't know that, I thought that this weapon had anti-aircraft or anti-tank applications, so I wouldn't expect it in the Boer War.
A single barreled one was fitted to the first armoured car in 1901, too late for the Empire in the Boer War.
We have a complete unrestored 8 barrel ship pom pom at our museum
The fact that the HMCS Chippewa is a building in the city of Winnipeg, the capital city of the province of Manitoba on the Canadian prairies, is interesting of itself.
Another great video Gilles! Yes, please do an in depth look at WW II naval surface target fire control! For a Canadian perspective, might I suggest a visit to HMCS Haida (Hamilton, Ontario). Her Transmitting Station is in excellent shape and contains an Admiralty Fire Control Clock as an example of a typical WW II electo-mechanical analog computer. I'm not aware of any Canadian specimen of the larger Admiralty Fire Control Table, but the latter simply had a paper plotter built in, the "computer" was the same. Her Mark 3 director is in poor shape (all optics and rangefinder missing), but at least is still in place. She does also have a US Mark 63 system for her stern double 3 inch gun mounting and as a stand in (this was originally a Mark 63 as well) , a US Mark 51 system that controlled the forward two 4.5 inch mountings against aircraft. The Mark 63's were designed from the start to use radar inputs. Looking forward to seeing what you can come up with on this fascinating subject.
Also some optical stuff. Its horribly underrated.
I used a computer in an office one summer.
Key in the numbers then pull the handle. I was just getting up to a decent speed when it broke !
Dumped it in a corner and found another one.
That'd be a good video. Not many videos on naval fire control systems.
Fantastic work as always!
Near the former Nordenfelt factory, later purchased by Maxim-Vickers there used to be a pub (now apartments/flats). The pub was called The Nordenfelt but it was know to locals and factory workers as the Pom Pom. The factory and pub were in Erith, south east London.
As always. Two thumbs up for the information & delivery.
Great ideas. Your wide range of subjects and your ability to comprehend the technical features of each system never ceases to amaze me. Good stuff..
Thank you for another amazing video Gilles and company! I would love to watch a video on the history of naval fire control!!
I found your channel the other day, fascinating! Keep up the good work, buddy!!
I somehow doubt that Gilles will be reassured by being called buddy!
I really appreciated this episode
Thx much for the video. Twas nice to see, as new technology was outpacing this system, it had its moment of glory when having to deal with the kamikaze scourge.
Superb video, good presentation, all the facts cconcisely put.
This was so fascinating, thank you.
Superb episode!!
Your knowledge and presentation are amazing.......thank you so much from the US, down in Florida, Paul
Obsolescent or not the fact that you could throw so many shells into the air with the octuple mount especially in the Pacific and literally disintegrate a kamikaze was an important factor. We also have to remember that the pom pom only narrowly lost to the Bofors when the US was looking for a better AA gun and that both were probably inferior to the planned French automatic 37 mm gun
Pretty neat, I have seen these but didnt know anything about them, especially that they were as old as you told us. Charles
Great presentation covering the pom pom 😊
In Erith, in North Kent, home of the Vickers factory, there was a pub called the Nordenfeldt Tavern, widely known as the "Pom-Pom".
Your videos are always a pleasure to watch, every thime i see one of your videos ove just had to watch it, always great pieces of history, thank you for doing what you do
Stellar research and presentation. Thank you.
9:18 now that's a fully semi automatic if I ever heard one. 🤣
Big thumbs up ! The 2pdr. is under loved, and Canadian content is also under reported.TY
I loved the opening call out to Forgotten Weapons!
Fantastic video. Thank you
I liked watching the pom poms firing in WWII war films. Nice to find out some technical info about them, and their history.
Brilliant! Thanks again.
Good job!
Fascinating, thank you! 😊
I live a block away from this museum. I should really go sometime. So weird, when you see a channel you like filming right near you in a city few have heard of.
That long-exposure at the end is quite a sight.
Excellent - Merci Gilles 👍
Excellent work !!
Great video on this fascinating weapon. Yes, a video on gun directors would be appreciated.
Superb upload and much appreciated Sir.
Antiaircraft fire control was originally just a simple lead computation for aiming, but as aircraft got faster and more maneuverable, this no longer was good enough. What was created was "2nd-order" tracking where the target aircraft was internally simulated by the more advanced computer, allowing this simulation to be aimed at and updated much more quickly and accurately, allowing a smooth updated lead angle to be always available for aiming. This kind of system replaced the older "1st-order" method completely after WWII and was also used for all later missile defense systems.
Nothing beats a good QF 2-Pounder Mk. VIII w/ cheese.
For those that don't know, "QF" stands for Quick Fire.
I learned a lot as usual.
As far as looks go, I think few weapons beat the four and eight gun mounts. I just love them
In all its brass and piano black splendor, this looks like an elegant weapon from a more civilized time. By the way, I think that funnel is not so much a flash hider as a recoil booster for a recoil-operated cannon.
“Your move Ian” ………lol, great!
Quantity has a quality all it's own, this goes double for wartime crash production schedules where ramping up production of older, well understood systems is often the superior choice over new, more technologically advanced replacements. It's why so many suboptimal systems stayed in mass production throughout the war, the time to switchover a factory and then work through the teething pains of a new process meant that you got hit twice, first by not having the new system on the battle field for many months, but more devastatingly you didn't have the production of the old units available either.
IIRC - from other sources - the octuple mount could fire one side (4 barrels) then change sides to the other allowing the loaders to keep up
👍Excellent video and thanks to the museum.
Great job sir.
great video!!
Love your channel sir
Very well done.
Great video, Gilles...👍
The Pom-Pom was great, but its range of 1,100 meters meant the attacker was going to hit you. Even the Oerliken 20mm could do that. The Bofors 40mm had a 7,000 meter range.
No it did not. Not even close. It had significantly greater effective range than the Pom Pom, but not 6X as far.
@@chriswerb7482 I'm just citing Wiki.
The "Pom-Pom" in Italian service was called Vickers-Terni 40/39. It was installed on ships, and on AA defence trucks.
"Right, let's have a closer look at this particular gun" ... Ian walks up with a screwdriver.
Great video! Didn't know that Manitoba province had a naval museum-John in Texas( USN_Desert Storm/Shield)
Nice Video, and Great History of the Weapons used in both Wars
Good work 🙂
Also used in defending the death star in a new hope. If you know, you know
Topnotch content and thanks for posting.
Great video
Splendid.
Watch out Drac, he is after your berth!
dans macabre fits the new intro
Cool gun!!
Wow. New (?) Channel - great video
These guns are insane
Nice job. One clarification though. Sea water was not used for cooling, at least not directly. Desalinated water using the ships systems would be used, so it could be limited.
Opening words "Your move, Ian." I fell off my perch....🤣
I hope someday there’s a video on early night vision systems like the Tabby’s.
Gets a thumbs up for never saying " The HMS Whatever " but for saying "HMS Whatever " or " The Whatever "
Imagine a full octuple mount, with radar fire control, slinging proximity fused rounds.
As far as the Royal Navy is concerned, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' might translate to if it does the job, why change it. When battleships were scrapped due to age or severe damage, the guns were removed and often used on the next new battleship. If I remember correctly when fired at 'full thrutch' barrel life was around 100 rounds. Used in WW1 & WW2 and beyond, the Lee-Enfield 303 was manufactured 17,000,000 times in factories all over the place.
Nearly forgot. It might be just 'a bit of flatulence' but I did see a video where it was stated the Pompom didn't like heavy rain. No doubt with that funnel pointing at the sky didn't help. Must have been the fastest water pistol on earth.
That‘s a beautiful tool.
It would be amazing if world of warships gave you ad copy that fits your channel better. Example: you can choose from x number of ships, here's the history of one of them and the tactical advantages it might offer you in combat.
Tres bien
Interestingly enough, the first Maxims were designed for Black Powder. Obviously, they didn't work well (due to inevitable and unsolvable fouling) and Maxim quickly switched to Smokeless Powder as soon as he could. Now a question...did they make Proximity Shells for these guns during WW2? 🤔
probably not, they were very reluctant to allow the use of proximity shells in areas they might get captured, and you can't guarantee a ship will sink somewhere that it can't be boarded or salvaged
AFAIK, no, as the proximity fuzes were relatively large and quite expensive, so they wouldn't fit into a shell this size, and they wouldn't be worthwhile either.
The proximity fuzes went into medium and heavy artillery shells. 3 inch and larger if I remember correctly
@@I_Automate Given just how effective Proximity Fuzes were against the kamikazes, I would have thought that since British ships relied on them so much, it was an obvious application. But you guys are right, proximity fuzes were pretty big...🫡
I have only seen one cross-section drawing of a WW2 proximity shell. It was a US 5" shell, and the simple radar system, that triggers the proximity fuse, occupied most of the interior, plus a small busting charge. The 37mm, 2 pound shell would be too small to fit the proximity fuse technology of the time.
2:32 The "Battleship Lake" ad has ended.
I love how the British used a 2-pounder gun while the Americans used the 40 mm gun😅
The uk didnt start to use the metric system until the 1970’s
The yanks didnt invent the imperial measurement system. Its called imperial as it was used by the British empire. The Americans use a version of it defined by mm and kilos as opposed to a self defined system
Double irony - Chrysler “imperialized” the Bofors for US production 😂
@@highlandrab19
The Whitworth system probably caused problems in the US shipyards.
and in English motorbike repair anywhere in North America!@@20chocsaday
2 pounds is the shot weight. Why are you comparing shot weight to barrel diameter??????
You know I don't honestly remember how I found your channel. I think it might have been a clip on shorts. I don't ever rot shorts, but once in a while on my homepage will have something interesting and I'll watch that one video. I think it might have been about antique fire grenades. I've told all my buddies about your channel. It's not going to get you to a million subscribers but honestly I'm more than a little surprised to find out that you have less than 100,000. You do really good videos on a broad range of historical topics. So I feel like you just need one of the other bigger channels to highlight you once and you'd be set
In his brief history of Force Z’s sinking Angus Konstam quotes a Japanese pilot at saying the British were firing tracer during the battle. Was the pilot mistaken?
you risk much challanging gun jesus! one can but admire such bravery! elbonia would be proud!
with all that brass, its kind of the ultimate steampunk gun lol.