Freeman Dyson - The seminar series: convincing Oppenheimer (79/157)
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- To listen to more of Freeman Dyson’s stories, go to the playlist: • Freeman Dyson (Scientist)
Freeman Dyson (1923-2020), who was born in England, moved to Cornell University after graduating from Cambridge University with a BA in Mathematics. He subsequently became a professor and worked on nuclear reactors, solid state physics, ferromagnetism, astrophysics and biology. He published several books and, among other honours, was awarded the Heineman Prize and the Royal Society's Hughes Medal. [Listener: Sam Schweber; date recorded: 1998]
TRANSCRIPT: And the first seminar was a complete disaster because I tried to talk about what Feynman had been doing, and Oppenheimer interrupted every sentence and told me how it ought to have been said, and how if I understood the thing right it wouldn't have sounded like that. He always knew everything better, and he was a terribly bad organiser of seminars. I mean he would... he had to have the centre stage for himself and couldn't shut up, and we couldn't tell him to shut up. So in fact, there was very little communication at all.
[SS] And a great deal of frustration on your part?
Well, I felt terrible and I remember going out, after this seminar and going to Cécile for consolation, and Cécile was wonderful, I mean, she was really like a mother to me at that point.
[SS] And your feeling was if you couldn't convince Oppenheimer, then it was hopeless or...?
I don't know whether I ever felt that. I always felt Oppenheimer was a bigoted old fool. I mean I was arrogant enough to be confident that I had the stuff and sooner or later it would be accepted, but it was very irritating and frustrating not to be able to get a hearing. Anyway, Cécile was very comforting, and then that night I was walking around by myself in the dark and there was a huge aurora in the sky, it was the brightest aurora I'd ever seen and the whole sky lit up red and green and somehow that looked as though God was saying something! So after all things aren't so bad, if God is with me I'm okay! And then... so, a week later I had the second seminar and it went a little bit better, but it still was pretty bad, and so I still didn't get much of a hearing. And at that point Hans Bethe somehow heard about this and he talked with Oppenheimer on the telephone, I think.
[SS] I think he came down to Princeton and he heard, he saw you in action...
Yes, but that's after the telephone call, I think.
[SS] I see, OK.
I think that he had telephoned Oppy and said 'You really ought to listen to Dyson, you know, he really has something to say and you should listen.' And so then Bethe himself came down to the next seminar which I was giving and Oppenheimer continued to interrupt, but Bethe then came to my help and, actually, he was able to tell Oppenheimer to shut up, I mean, which only he could do.
[SS] Then Oppenheimer would listen?
Then he finally began to listen, yes!
[SS] I mean, I'm saying, he would listen to Bethe and shut up?
Yes! So the third seminar he started to listen and then, I actually gave five altogether, and so the fourth and fifth were fine, and by that time he really got interested. He began to understand that there was something worth listening to. And then, at some point, I don't remember exactly at which point, he put a little note in my mail box saying, 'nolo contendere'.
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If a kind, humble, and gentle soul like Dyson finds someone to be pompous, arrogant, and unbearable you know that there is definitely much more to the story than he is willing to let out.
NothingMaster interesting supposition, but reading between the lines is simply conjecture.
Not really. Consider reading his book Disturbing the Universe, which contains all of the things mentioned in this series and more. Dyson really did have some reservations about Oppenheimer, but he respected and admired him at the same time. There is however, no saucy story here behind his negative feelings towards Oppenheimer, it all goes back to the Los Alamos days.
@@AritraDaddy noticing a lot of Indians in the comment section. Including me. Reference to you comment.. Freeman Dyson and Oppenheimer did not have a relationship in the Los Alamos days. They never met then. Oppenheimer had a grandeur, bombastic, pretentious attitude all his life which rubbed the wrong way with a lot of people all his life.. especially his students. It stems from the rich upbringing and pretentious attitudes of literary people of the 19th century... i lik
@@nealrutgerskid to you too, read that book. Obviously they did not meet at Los Alamos ever, Dyson wasn't involved in that at all. But he had reservations about what went about at Los Alamos, on somewhat moral and philosophical grounds.
@@nealrutgerskid I agree with you largely, except maybe your last line; dunno much about that so can't really comment.
I read a an Oppenheimer biography, ( " an American Prometheus ). He was there described as a nice fellow, sympathetic and charming. And as an unfairly treated victim.
Listening to F.J. Dyson and to Hans Bethe I think that this was not quite so.
I've read the book also & I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. It certainly doesn't sugar coat the arrogant part of Oppenheimers personality & how it rubbed more than a few people the wrong way.
Also I think you'll find Dyson felt this way because He had a similar opinion of himself ie Similar personalities always tend to clash.
Love his truthful but tactful way of talking. :)
Don’t laugh at the beautiful and encouraging aurora after a very bad day. I remember having a very bad day when the outlook seemed bleak. Driving home, I saw the most beautiful sunset of my life, and I felt God comforting me. Sure enough, the problem I was facing was solved in a most miraculous way.
Just discovering these interviews, and wanted to comment on the throwaway line about Oppenheimer's note to Dyson "Nolo Contendere"
Or rather barely comment, for the phrase speaks for itself - suc depth in a simple mote.
For Oppenheimer says in effect 'I will not contest what you say' - but the subtext is 'However, I will admit no guilt'
The phrase itself is found more often in criminal trial - Oppenheimer, by this note (possibly) acknowledges he is on trial, and is in fact the Defendant, not the Accuser.
He acknowledges Dysons position, and will not dispute the facts, but will not admit 'guilt' for his 'action (or 'position') in effect admitting no wrongdoing, but accepting the conviction.
It is up to either (or 3rd parties) to interpret whether the non-admissiion of 'guilt' but acceptance of 'conviction' is for his action (or stance) against his Accuser, or his action in general - both, either, or neither.
one may think of Oppenheimer (or Dyson) that note was a piece of class.
Goddamn! 😎
Love this stuff. "Oppenheimer, take a seat and shut up! Or else I'm calling in Bethe!"
U.V. S. Oppenheimer can’t defend himself because he is dead. If Dyson has any respect for himself AND for Oppenheimer, who was later terribly maligned for his love of freedom of thought and belief in a so-called free country, he would have had the nerve to ask Oppenheimer politely to please consider leaving his remarks for when he( Dyson) had finished his presentation. While Dyson was brilliant in his field, he continues to have no respect for climatologists and ignores the messages of the senses. I have to remove my like, Professor Dyson, terribly sorry. It IS disrespectful to speak ill of the deceased.
Doug R. Although I would generally agree with your point of view ... I would rather hear his point of view before his death. It seems as if things eventually worked out ... have a look at Bethe’s recollections on this point ... it supports Dyson’s viewpoint and adds additional information.
pspicer777 I have to agree that Oppenheimer seems to have been a bit rude, but [Dystonia] Dyson [!] should have stood up for himself and not have required hiding behind Bethe’s reputation. Dyson is being repeatedly rude, even YEARS afterwards,which only makes me suspect anti-Sémitism .....which if you know your history, was RAMPANT in the US pre and post WW2 & still has its proponents.
Oppenheimer’s constant need to interrupt and attempt to upstage could easily be attributed to insecurity.
@@dougr.2398 I agree that he should have stood up for himself - I can only assume it was the times. There was quite an established hierarchy and Freeman being English probably deferred to the established hierarchy more than was the cultural norm in the US. Certainly, such behavior from Oppenheimer would not be tolerated today. I am not too familiar with the anti-Semitic climate in the US then or now. I do know in the UK there is relatively less - but still, unfortunately, it exists.
wonderful!
Lmao 78 videos of Dyson only saying good things about everyone he's ever met and then on Oppenheimer: "He was a bigoted old fool" 🤣
0:42
The big ‘I Am’ culture…(like Columbus - didn’t get to the mainland and if he had he would have found a St. Clair Knights’ building on Rhode Island and a signature grave in Massachusetts built nearly a century before). Also some say that the timeline from then available techniques does not permit the quantity of enriched material to have been obtained for the project before November 1945 - which is a very curious thing to contemplate.
At no more than the portals of encountering this mind - but something tells me that it was an extraordinary and unregarded ‘something else’ - hope not to be disappointed; and it also appearing that he was a wholesome and rounded man who possessed that mind. So cordial to encounter a mind that appears not to have moved from off the great flag-stones of Newtonian physics. I wonder what he would have made of RB Fuller’s peculiar synthetic and analytic geometry? Suspect that he would have responded positively to many aspects of it.
no lo contendo rien? what language is that? no entiendo nada is spanish. je ne comprends rien is french. anyone know?
Nolo contendere is a Latin term used in law. It is a plea of no contest.
nolo contendere is latin "I do not wish to contend" (argue).
A phrase that’s not particularly in the common (ie non-legal) vernacular today. Maybe it was then? If not, it suggests Oppy devoted some of his ingenuity to saving face without admitting fault.
Can you hear me now?
Oppenheimer was essentially an egotistical politician and not a physicist; both in practice and in spirit.
I work with that type
Oppenheimer always over rated himself.
Long live democratic socialism and freedom
Socialism and freedom are mutually exclusive.
Dyson did not like Oppenheimer. Dyson is really arrogant and jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He's really jealous of Oppenheimer. Sad man.
that statement is a long "stretch. VIC not evidence based