@@n1a316 Syro Malabar Qurbana is not Roman Mass it comes under Eastern Oriental Churches & yes it adopted Indian traditions and I guess there is nothing wrong in it. Only the Latin Mass comes under Western Church
The *Christian Church* was formed in and around *Jerusalem* . Slowly it spread throughout Palestine. Jews were the backbone of Christianity. Many among the Jews were attracted by the new Religion. Jews who lived as emigrants also got baptised and they spread Christianity to their lands. Thus Christian Church started in gentile lands like *Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, Persia, Alexandria, Antioch and Rome* . The initial Church was under the leadership of *St. Peter.* When the leaders of Judaism felt heat due to rapid conversions to Christianity, they started to persecute Church. So most of the Apostles moved to evangelise far lands. *St. Peter moved his See to Antioch and then to Rome, where he was martyred and got entombed.* *Apostles Simon, Judas, and Thomas* are credited with the evangelisation of non-Roman Empire regions like Edessa, Mesopotamia, Persia, Armenia, India etc. *The Early Church liturgy evolved in three different languages and streams: Greek, Syriac and Latin.* The centre of Syriac Christianity was *Edessa.* The centre of Latin Christianity was predominantly *Rome* and Greek Christianity had two centres: *Antioch and Alexandria.* Later, monastic societies began to exist. Slowly Theological Schools started developing from the cities of Alexandria , Antioch and Edessa. When the clashes between *Roman Empire* and *Persian Empire* took its peak, Edessa was annexed by Romans and hence, the centre of authoritative *Syriac Christianity moved to Seleiucia-Ctesiphon in the Persian Empire.* The theological School of Edessa was implanted in *Nisibis.* Then occured the *Ecumenical Council of Nicea* in which Alexandria and Antioch were raised as *Major Archiepiscopal Sees( Grand Metropolitan Sees)* with rights similar to that of *Rome over entire West.* The *Archbishop of Seleiucia-Ctesiphon* was affirmed with the title of Grand Metropolitan ( Major Archbishop) of the East.* This title was already assumed by the Church of Seleiucia-Ctesiphon during late third Century. *The See of the Patriarch of Church of the East is generally referred to as the See of Babylon* due to its continuous relocation due to frequent persecutions. This is seen in Western Church traditions too. *St. Iraneus and St. Jerome writes about St. Abdias( St. Addai) as one of the seventytwo Apostles of Christ and the first bishop of Babylon.* During this age, Christian Persecution reached its peak in Sassanid Empire against the Church of the East due to alleged links with Roman Imperial leadership. The Theological School of Nisibis was again relocated to Edessa. *The views of the proponents of Nisibian theology like St. Aprem and those of the proponents of Antiochian theology like St. Diodore, St. Theodore etc intermingled in the School of Edessa. This school was the heartland of Antiochian Christology.* Similarly School of Alexandria also developed its own Christology. The relationship between the proponents of both the streams started a envious battle against each other and culminated in the *Nestorian Schism and Chalcedonian Schism.* The *Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon* and *Emperor Justinian I* raised the *Sees of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem* to the position of *Patriarchates.* During this age the *See of Babylon* didn't recieve a Patriarchal See because of the Nestorian Schism and the opposition towards influence of the Roman Empire over the Church of the East. So the *Grand Metropolitan of the Church of the East in Seleiucia-Ctesiphon* self assumed the title of *Patriarch of Babylon* along with already assumed title of Catholicose of the Church of the East with the approval of the Synod of the Church of the East. Persecution against the proponents of Antiochian Christology in Roman Empire ( Byzantine Empire) led to the final relocation of the School of Edessa back to Nisibis. *_The Church of the East follows the theology of the Nisibian school and the Oriental orthodox Churches follows theology of the School of Alexandria._* *_Catholic Church and Eastern orthodox Churches, meanwhile, accepts both the theological interpretations , but only on the basis of decisions of the Ecumenical Councils._*
They do seem to be quite similar but this mass has more in relation to the original East Syrian Qurbana that existed in Kerela before the arrival of the Portuguese compared to the Syro-Malabar which was later Latinised.
Yes it's very similar. Although the way of worship of Syro-Malabar is much older than the Chaldean church. Usage of old melodies and pronunciations (pre 14th century) are still upheld in Syro-Malabar church (in spite of Latinization), while the Chaldean church is heavily influenced by Islam, with Arabic melodies and use of new pronunciations (post 14th century. Also, they don't have icons since it was destroyed by Muslims, but this became the norm in the church afterward. But there are more similarities than differences between our churches.
@@bijogeojose7209 that's not fully true. Syro-Malabar is also newer due to latinisation, our liturgy used to be in suriyani. And our churches don't really use icons very much, correct me if I'm wrong though because I don't go to India very much so I haven't seen many churches, but the churches are mostly latinsed. They have latin style art, not traditional icons. And all of the statues are whitewashed, they paint Jesus as white, just like how the white romans do. I think some even paint God the father like how the pagan latins have done. When traditionally Christians have never painted God the Father because it is gravely disrespectful and borderline blasphemous. Chaldean church is not too different to the old style because it still remained eastern while our syro malabar unfortunately become western. Even our daily prayers are western prayers, I wish we could go back to our traditional eastern prayers, but portugese burned so much of it.
Hi @@n1a316. There is an element of truth in your comment. We, as well as members of other churches, assume that our church is a newer secular church by seeing how it is now. This is definitely due to the latinsation of our church. Its only when we look at the history of our church, our traditions, our church architecture, liturgical music, etc that we see that our church has not been changed at its core, but only on the outside. You said that you dont visit India much often, so I'm guessing you live in America, the UK, or a European country. The Syro Malabar churches outside of India lean more towards the Latin ways of expression. Thats why the churches lack the Altar veil, the Bema, the icons of Marth Mariam and Mar Thoma Sleeha, and have more statues and western devotions. But the churches in India, especially at Changanassery, Palai, and Kanjirapally, lean towards the traditional East Syriac way of expression. We have the Altar Veil seperating the Altar and the nave, we have the Bema which used to be, and still remains at some old churches, at the exact center of the nave where the people would gather, just like in a synagogue. It also has the icons of Marth Mariam and Mar Thoma Sleeha, the traditional lamp, which used to be closer to the center-back of the nave but now is placed at the front, and also we have the East Syriac liturgy of the hours like Ramsha, Sapra and Leliya. All these are present along with some latin elements like statues and benches in the nave, which seems very out of place tbh. But Inspite of all the Latinisations by the Portuguese, we still upheld the old pronunciation of Syriac, the old melodies of the chants, and the Peshitta, our Syriac bible. We are now retrieving the books and traditions which we lost through the Synod of Diamper, and we have been successful in restoring a few elements like the Anaphora of Mar Nestorius amd Mar Theodore, the use of Malka (leavened bread) for our liturgy (even though not widely practiced), the traditional black vestments of priests and bishops, even reintroducing the Nestorian Christology we believed in (because Nestorius did not introduce any heresy in the first place, but that's a whole other discussion). So there is hope of fully returning back to how we were before.
@@jimjohn985 Syrian Christians in Kerala uses two liturgy (aradhana kramam) primarily. East and West Syriac liturgy. Syro Malabar (autonomous church but part of universal Roman Catholic Church) and Chaldean Syrian Church (part of Assyrian Church of the east) both follow the east Syriac liturgy. It is part of the historical timeline of how they adapted the same liturgy , but later on, both churches modified the liturgical service independently. Both churches are otherwise not in communion with each other. East Syrian liturgy aanu nammal liturgy of Addai and Mari ennu parayunne. Other Syrian Churces like Orthodox, Jacobite , Marthoma , Syro Malankara catholic Church all adapted west Syriac liturgy and reformed the original liturgy.
@@NikhilCherianKurian Syrian orthodox and jacobites accepted jacob burdan ( western liturgy ) and rejected the liturgy followed by their great for fathers before kunamkoorishu Satyam
@@jimjohn985 Catholic Chruch nte predheygatha enna nu vechal through the Eastern Catholic (EC) Churches... Eastern liturgies use cheyan anuvadhikum.... For example the Malankara Catholics employ the West Syriac liturgy used in Malankara Orthodox and Syriac Orthodox churches. The Coptic Catholics are using the liturgy of the Coptic Orthodox. The Ukrainian Greek Catholics are using the Byzantine liturgy of the Greek (Eastern Orthodox) Church. The Armenian Catholic Church is using the liturgy of the Armenian Orthodox Church. Basically Catholic Church recognizes Eastern liturgies as valid. The Latin/Roman Catholics only employ the Latin liturgies of Rome. The positive of the EC churches is that it allows an Orthodox to convert to Catholicsm and still maintain his Orthodox liturgy in the Catholic Church through the EC churches. So for example a Coptic Orthodox decides to convert to Catholicism. He became Catholic and stays a part of Coptic Catholic Church where he can still participate in his Coptic liturgy. And Catholic Church accepts all apostolic Eastern liturgies as valid. Agane SyroMalabar Church is an Eastern Catholic Church that was once part of the Church of the East and we employ the Liturgy of Addai and Mari of the Church of the East. Although over the last 400 years our version has had modifications due to Latin influence from the Latin Church and our own SyroMalabar Synods changes. Catholic means Universal.... The Universal Church.... The combination of both the Western (Latin) Church and the Eastern Churches. India is diverse of its many cultures, ethnicities, languages and religions. Malayalis, Tamils, Tulus, Kannadigas, and Telugus undu just in South India. India is made up of 28 states. Just like that the Catholic Church is very diverse as well. It's not "1" Church. It's a combination of 24 churches of various liturgies and traditions- the Western Latin Church and the 23 Eastern Catholic churches. The EC churches can be grouped in 5 Rites- Alexandrian Rite, Armenian Rite, Byzantine/Greek Rite, East Syriac (Chaldean) Rite, and West Syriac Rite.
Beautiful , favorite Qurbana service that I heard here so far.
please add more holy qurbana videos.
Chaldean Holy mass of Surais part of ASSYRIAN CHURCH which is said to have been Established by Saint Thomas
Syro Malabar Qurbana is also established by St Thomas
@@n1a316 Syro Malabar Qurbana is not Roman Mass it comes under Eastern Oriental Churches & yes it adopted Indian traditions and I guess there is nothing wrong in it.
Only the Latin Mass comes under Western Church
I'm a Syro Malabar seminarian, Chaco is correct, both are correct.
@@immanueljoseph2784 സീറോ മലബാർ സഭയിൽ ലാത്തിനികരിക്കപ്പെട്ട തെറ്റായി കരുതപ്പെടാവുന്ന കുർബാന ക്രമമാണ്, എന്നാ ഇത് യഥാർത്ഥ തർജമതന്നെയാണ്.
We are not syro Malabar,we are RC
Amen
The *Christian Church* was formed in and around *Jerusalem* . Slowly it spread throughout Palestine. Jews were the backbone of Christianity. Many among the Jews were attracted by the new Religion. Jews who lived as emigrants also got baptised and they spread Christianity to their lands. Thus Christian Church started in gentile lands like *Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, Persia, Alexandria, Antioch and Rome* . The initial Church was under the leadership of *St. Peter.*
When the leaders of Judaism felt heat due to rapid conversions to Christianity, they started to persecute Church. So most of the Apostles moved to evangelise far lands. *St. Peter moved his See to Antioch and then to Rome, where he was martyred and got entombed.*
*Apostles Simon, Judas, and Thomas* are credited with the evangelisation of non-Roman Empire regions like Edessa, Mesopotamia, Persia, Armenia, India etc.
*The Early Church liturgy evolved in three different languages and streams: Greek, Syriac and Latin.* The centre of Syriac Christianity was *Edessa.* The centre of Latin Christianity was predominantly *Rome* and Greek Christianity had two centres: *Antioch and Alexandria.*
Later, monastic societies began to exist. Slowly Theological Schools started developing from the cities of Alexandria , Antioch and Edessa.
When the clashes between *Roman Empire* and *Persian Empire* took its peak, Edessa was annexed by Romans and hence, the centre of authoritative *Syriac Christianity moved to Seleiucia-Ctesiphon in the Persian Empire.* The theological School of Edessa was implanted in *Nisibis.*
Then occured the *Ecumenical Council of Nicea* in which Alexandria and Antioch were raised as *Major Archiepiscopal Sees( Grand Metropolitan Sees)* with rights similar to that of *Rome over entire West.* The *Archbishop of Seleiucia-Ctesiphon* was affirmed with the title of Grand Metropolitan ( Major Archbishop) of the East.* This title was already assumed by the Church of Seleiucia-Ctesiphon during late third Century. *The See of the Patriarch of Church of the East is generally referred to as the See of Babylon* due to its continuous relocation due to frequent persecutions. This is seen in Western Church traditions too. *St. Iraneus and St. Jerome writes about St. Abdias( St. Addai) as one of the seventytwo Apostles of Christ and the first bishop of Babylon.*
During this age, Christian Persecution reached its peak in Sassanid Empire against the Church of the East due to alleged links with Roman Imperial leadership. The Theological School of Nisibis was again relocated to Edessa. *The views of the proponents of Nisibian theology like St. Aprem and those of the proponents of Antiochian theology like St. Diodore, St. Theodore etc intermingled in the School of Edessa. This school was the heartland of Antiochian Christology.* Similarly School of Alexandria also developed its own Christology. The relationship between the proponents of both the streams started a envious battle against each other and culminated in the *Nestorian Schism and Chalcedonian Schism.*
The *Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon* and *Emperor Justinian I* raised the *Sees of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem* to the position of *Patriarchates.*
During this age the *See of Babylon* didn't recieve a Patriarchal See because of the Nestorian Schism and the opposition towards influence of the Roman Empire over the Church of the East.
So the *Grand Metropolitan of the Church of the East in Seleiucia-Ctesiphon* self assumed the title of *Patriarch of Babylon* along with already assumed title of Catholicose of the Church of the East with the approval of the Synod of the Church of the East.
Persecution against the proponents of Antiochian Christology in Roman Empire ( Byzantine Empire) led to the final relocation of the School of Edessa back to Nisibis. *_The Church of the East follows the theology of the Nisibian school and the Oriental orthodox Churches follows theology of the School of Alexandria._*
*_Catholic Church and Eastern orthodox Churches, meanwhile, accepts both the theological interpretations , but only on the basis of decisions of the Ecumenical Councils._*
Aman🙏
Kindly show actual Qurbana and not audio alone❤️❤️❤️
ആമ്മേൻ
Similar to syro malabar mass. Is it the same?
They do seem to be quite similar but this mass has more in relation to the original East Syrian Qurbana that existed in Kerela before the arrival of the Portuguese compared to the Syro-Malabar which was later Latinised.
@@abrahamthomas229 This is what and how SyroMalabar mass should be!
Yes it's very similar. Although the way of worship of Syro-Malabar is much older than the Chaldean church. Usage of old melodies and pronunciations (pre 14th century) are still upheld in Syro-Malabar church (in spite of Latinization), while the Chaldean church is heavily influenced by Islam, with Arabic melodies and use of new pronunciations (post 14th century. Also, they don't have icons since it was destroyed by Muslims, but this became the norm in the church afterward. But there are more similarities than differences between our churches.
@@bijogeojose7209 that's not fully true. Syro-Malabar is also newer due to latinisation, our liturgy used to be in suriyani. And our churches don't really use icons very much, correct me if I'm wrong though because I don't go to India very much so I haven't seen many churches, but the churches are mostly latinsed. They have latin style art, not traditional icons. And all of the statues are whitewashed, they paint Jesus as white, just like how the white romans do. I think some even paint God the father like how the pagan latins have done. When traditionally Christians have never painted God the Father because it is gravely disrespectful and borderline blasphemous. Chaldean church is not too different to the old style because it still remained eastern while our syro malabar unfortunately become western. Even our daily prayers are western prayers, I wish we could go back to our traditional eastern prayers, but portugese burned so much of it.
Hi @@n1a316. There is an element of truth in your comment. We, as well as members of other churches, assume that our church is a newer secular church by seeing how it is now. This is definitely due to the latinsation of our church. Its only when we look at the history of our church, our traditions, our church architecture, liturgical music, etc that we see that our church has not been changed at its core, but only on the outside. You said that you dont visit India much often, so I'm guessing you live in America, the UK, or a European country. The Syro Malabar churches outside of India lean more towards the Latin ways of expression. Thats why the churches lack the Altar veil, the Bema, the icons of Marth Mariam and Mar Thoma Sleeha, and have more statues and western devotions. But the churches in India, especially at Changanassery, Palai, and Kanjirapally, lean towards the traditional East Syriac way of expression. We have the Altar Veil seperating the Altar and the nave, we have the Bema which used to be, and still remains at some old churches, at the exact center of the nave where the people would gather, just like in a synagogue. It also has the icons of Marth Mariam and Mar Thoma Sleeha, the traditional lamp, which used to be closer to the center-back of the nave but now is placed at the front, and also we have the East Syriac liturgy of the hours like Ramsha, Sapra and Leliya. All these are present along with some latin elements like statues and benches in the nave, which seems very out of place tbh.
But Inspite of all the Latinisations by the Portuguese, we still upheld the old pronunciation of Syriac, the old melodies of the chants, and the Peshitta, our Syriac bible. We are now retrieving the books and traditions which we lost through the Synod of Diamper, and we have been successful in restoring a few elements like the Anaphora of Mar Nestorius amd Mar Theodore, the use of Malka (leavened bread) for our liturgy (even though not widely practiced), the traditional black vestments of priests and bishops, even reintroducing the Nestorian Christology we believed in (because Nestorius did not introduce any heresy in the first place, but that's a whole other discussion). So there is hope of fully returning back to how we were before.
Why *puqdanqon* is not prayed??
That is only prayed in Syro Malabar rite. This is not Syro Malabar.
Pukdankon..... Whose command, Pukdanedmsheeha..... Msheehaayude kalppana.
Surai Christians ennu parayunnathano chaldeans ?
NO *puqdanqon* ?!?!
സന്തോഷം.എന്നാൽ വി.ബലി അർപ്പിക്കുന്ന പുരോഹിതനെയും സഹകാർമ്മിക രെയും വീഡിയോയിൽ കാണിക്കുന്നില്ല ... എന്നത് ഒരു കുറവാണ്.
Syro-malabar (Catholic) qurbanayumayi samyam undallo....
Yes
Both are same family
East Syriac liturgy
@@bennyandruse7526 👍👍👍
@@bennyandruse7526ഏതാ സഭ.
16:46. 25:56
Egane anu kaldaya sabhak ividathe syro Malabar sabhyude kurbanayum ayi samyam Ullathu..
?
Both churches uses the divine liturgy of Addai and Mari belonging to east syriac rite.
@@NikhilCherianKurian bro syro Malabar oru Roman bharanathil Ullathu alle. Kaldayakar orikalum avare angikarikilla. Addai and Mari enthanu udeshikune? Apol kaldaya sabhyude qurbana syro Malabar copy adicho?
@@jimjohn985 Syrian Christians in Kerala uses two liturgy (aradhana kramam) primarily. East and West Syriac liturgy. Syro Malabar (autonomous church but part of universal Roman Catholic Church) and Chaldean Syrian Church (part of Assyrian Church of the east) both follow the east Syriac liturgy. It is part of the historical timeline of how they adapted the same liturgy , but later on, both churches modified the liturgical service independently. Both churches are otherwise not in communion with each other.
East Syrian liturgy aanu nammal liturgy of Addai and Mari ennu parayunne. Other Syrian Churces like Orthodox, Jacobite , Marthoma , Syro Malankara catholic Church all adapted west Syriac liturgy and reformed the original liturgy.
@@NikhilCherianKurian
Syrian orthodox and jacobites accepted jacob burdan ( western liturgy ) and rejected the liturgy followed by their great for fathers before kunamkoorishu Satyam
@@jimjohn985 Catholic Chruch nte predheygatha enna nu vechal through the Eastern Catholic (EC) Churches... Eastern liturgies use cheyan anuvadhikum.... For example the Malankara Catholics employ the West Syriac liturgy used in Malankara Orthodox and Syriac Orthodox churches. The Coptic Catholics are using the liturgy of the Coptic Orthodox. The Ukrainian Greek Catholics are using the Byzantine liturgy of the Greek (Eastern Orthodox) Church. The Armenian Catholic Church is using the liturgy of the Armenian Orthodox Church. Basically Catholic Church recognizes Eastern liturgies as valid. The Latin/Roman Catholics only employ the Latin liturgies of Rome. The positive of the EC churches is that it allows an Orthodox to convert to Catholicsm and still maintain his Orthodox liturgy in the Catholic Church through the EC churches. So for example a Coptic Orthodox decides to convert to Catholicism. He became Catholic and stays a part of Coptic Catholic Church where he can still participate in his Coptic liturgy. And Catholic Church accepts all apostolic Eastern liturgies as valid.
Agane SyroMalabar Church is an Eastern Catholic Church that was once part of the Church of the East and we employ the Liturgy of Addai and Mari of the Church of the East. Although over the last 400 years our version has had modifications due to Latin influence from the Latin Church and our own SyroMalabar Synods changes.
Catholic means Universal.... The Universal Church.... The combination of both the Western (Latin) Church and the Eastern Churches.
India is diverse of its many cultures, ethnicities, languages and religions. Malayalis, Tamils, Tulus, Kannadigas, and Telugus undu just in South India. India is made up of 28 states. Just like that the Catholic Church is very diverse as well. It's not "1" Church. It's a combination of 24 churches of various liturgies and traditions- the Western Latin Church and the 23 Eastern Catholic churches. The EC churches can be grouped in 5 Rites- Alexandrian Rite, Armenian Rite, Byzantine/Greek Rite, East Syriac (Chaldean) Rite, and West Syriac Rite.
സിറോ മലബാർ ആരാധന ക്രമമായി സാമ്യ്മുണ്ടല്ലോ? 🤔
Both use the same east syriac rite.
Both are following same liturgy of Mar addai East syriac