Chanos Says Tesla Is 'Structurally Unprofitable'
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2017
- Sep.28 -- Legendary short-seller Jim Chanos, Kynikos Associates founder, discusses the outlook for Tesla with Bloomberg's Julia Chatterley, Joe Weisenthal and Scarlet Fu on "What'd You Miss?"
Damn audi on level 3 that's not even a reality in 2021 lmao
Love coming back to these old videos with these predictions on Tesla. Jim, can we have an updated interview please? Just for the record, we are in 2018 still.
And Tesla still isn’t profitable
@@francesa9776 and Tesla is profitable
He shorted it (split-adjusted) from the $40's all the way up to the $600's.
By 2021, he'd lessened--but not yet fully closed out--his position.
By February 2022 (before Russia's invasion of Ukraine) TSLA stood at $800.
Y is Telsa going so high?
What is going on in Shanghai?
Do you feel the burn?
Time to make a turn.
Summertime U.S. don't forget Y
from personal experience with audi, I would class audi to be class 1 and way way behind the latest modes S or model X in terms autonomy...
Jim Thanos loses 50% dignity every year
is this guy alive? was there any footage of tv him talking about tesla within last few weeks? i'd like to hear
I love free tesla share subsidies from Jim Chanos and other tesla short sellers. teeheehee
He and his mindset have transferred more 10's of billions to us dumb retailers then ever in history.
When will Tesla become profitable? 0:00 "no, no,no, not even later this decade." Will right now 24 Aug 2018Tesla is making 5000 to 6000 model-3s every week. That's a gross of 250 to 300 MILLION dollars a week. And it's 'forecast' made 1/3 of the way in to Q3 is that Q3 will produce a small GAAP profit.
Audi is not at level three. That was such a bogus report. Read up on the speed restrictions of their "autonomy" and come to your own conclusions.
Money spent for charging stations all around the world, research and innovations and all others.. no other company did that.. come on..
This just came up on my recommended feed. I guess it is entertaining to see how this stuff started. Now days, I just ignore this kind of content.
aww, poor thing. It's rough realizing your favorite car company is nothing but a hyped up phase in the car industry. Go easy on yourself :(
@@kabukisyneri296 aw u poor thing, so bad your most hated car company is getting better and better. And wallstreet agrees
@@skoapiee just another Musk fanboy nothing to see here. Wait until the big boys like Audi, Toyota and Porsche take away what's left of Tesla's sales. LMAO bye bye
@@dynasty5053 ow boy, they are years behind in R&D, cya in 3 years from now
@@skoapiee in 3 years Tesla will still not be a profitable car company. So yeah, fine see you in 3 years. LMAO
It’s 2nd quarter of 2019 and no hint of Porsche Mission E. Also heard they planning for 20,000 unit production yearly. Model 3 just delivered 50,000 units in quarter 1 of 2019.
This aged like old milk. Chanos could never have imagined Tesla selling 1M cars/year and opening gigafactories in Shanghai, Berlin and Austin by 2022.
meanwhile 1000s to 10s of 1000s of Tesla believers could easily see it. A dozens of stock analysts on TV saw it too.
It's so funny to go through Jim chanos videos after Tesla stock is over 850 and short sellers lost more than 2.5 billion in just a few days. Lol
He's a smart man, no doubt, but he just underestimated elongated muskrat.
how do you feel today?
@@Quivver77 still think Jim chanos is wrong, we are looking at a global recession currently, caused by a pandemic that shut down world economy. Entirety of stock market is feeling the pain, not just Tesla.
Still Tesla is trading at 488 dollars per share amidst global pandemic, Jim chanos said Tesla would fall below 150 and eventually go bankrupt. That is never happening.
Unless Jim chanos predicted Tesla price dropping because of global pandemic, he is awfully wrong.
@@dasfun2243 Tesla had 24 billion revenue in 2019 and still didn't turn a profit. In fact it lost 850 million that year. If you think Tesla is going to stay at 488 levels going forward i'm afraid you're in store for a rude awakening.
Tesla will crack this year and although i don't agree with it going bankrupt I think the party is definitely over.
Auto sales globally are in decline. Tesla cost more to produce then they sell for. Elon Musk is a wildly charismatic guy, he's got a cult following. Like Steve Jobs. The difference is Steve Jobs sold aspirational products that 20% of the world can afford, while Musk sells product that only 2% can.
Shorting Telsa is an easy call. Stock massively overvalued and customer base are being sold by a master marketer. The decline is inevitable.
@@Quivver77 then go ahead, short Tesla and lose all your money..
@@dasfun2243 i didn't declare my position - simply that shorting Tesla isn't a bad idea. Plus Chanos will hedge. The man is a billionaire for a reason.
This just show success is the worst teacher and how important being open-minded is.
Where's Chanos the thanos now?
Someone tell Jim, the FUTURE IS LOOKING GOOD!!! Pretty sure he is NOT, MAX-SHORT any more.
This aged well, lol
Another good call Jim.
Excellent for those of us taking the shorts to the cleaners, biggest transfer of wealth from the big smart guys to us dumb retailers in the brief history of humanity. :D
Is he still shorting? Tesla made two quarterly profits in a row and is set for a third one! Jim, your predictions are way off!
Tesla have most crazy stock among large caps
@Robert Blackford Chanos lost how much February 2020 ?
He must be Bob Lutz's friend!!!
mohammad moosavian I also think so.....
he is more honest
Tesla is the Trojan horse you stand on the sidelines with next to nothing! 🐎
Sooo....how are those shorts coming along?
Chanos my be on suicide watch.
Tesla is the most shorted company
in the U.S. equity market.
Ѣ for good reason
Most sold vehicles now clowns!!!
ruclips.net/video/r2NpirkyUgQ/видео.html
Why do you keep putting this same crap on with Chanos and Bob Lutz?
@@carlmarcus2716 Febuary 2020 Shot sellers on Suicide watch.
That's part of the reason to bet against them but also that their arguments became increasingly shrill and ridiculous. Biggest best transfer of wealth from the "smart big guys" to us retail dummies in history.
Noone will care about Porsche in the future. Just like Nokia.
@What Porsche taycan sold a little less than 1400 taycan in Q1 2020, tesla sold right around 10000 model S in the same quarter
Has any other opinion of a Wall Street analyst ever been this wrong?
TSLA up 1150% since this video
Oh god
Maybe Chanos is a nice guy in his personal life, however, I believe that he is betting against history, the same way Steve Ballmer did against the Apple iPhone - we have our answer.
i think iphones were making money from the start...
Yes, the very same way ...
(Except that Ballmer wasn't short thousands of AAPL shares.)
But all my negativism aside, what Musk did well was pinch the dinosaurs of carmakers in the butt, giving them a wake up call about two things 1) making ev's 2) getting sportscar acceleration worth millions on the current market for a bit over 100k.
And today, Tesla Solar (formerly called SolarCity - that company that people said Tesla were foolish to acquire) is getting more customers from people who just purchased EVs and Plug-In EVs from Chevrolet and Toyota, because most Tesla car owners already had solar panels before buying their Teslas.
It is taking a longer time than we thought for people to understand the Tesla vision "Accelerating The World's Transition To Sustainable Energy". But it is an awakening that is very interesting to watch.
pdl-iphone-cnbc-com.akamaized.net/VCPS/Y2013/M05D10/3000167652/6ED2-FMHR-Bruno02-0510_L.mp4
No. You mean to say, I need to think more like you! More the like way YOU wish to think about SolarCity....And END my research at the point you ended yours! That is exactly what you are saying. You aren't saying or doing any critical thinking whatsoever!
Do you think critical thinking means choosing to be negative about things? Is that what you think the definition of critical thinking is???
Well FYI, SolarCity (or Tesla Solar) is a profitable division within Tesla today.
I know this from an inside source. Also from the fact that several of my neighbors here in Brentwood, California, some who own Tesla cars and solar on top of their roofs, have been trying to get me and other neighboors who do not own Teslas to buy their solar panels from Tesla. And several of my neighbors have agreed to do so. I will eventually follow, if I do not find a cheaper option than the Tesla system.
Again, I say you are confusing your determination to see your opinion to be right with critical thinking.
When in reality, true critical thinking SHOULD in fact help you to realize that you've made a big mistake by swallowing Jim Chanos' opinion about the SolarCity acquisition.
Whether you want to agree with it or not, it doesn't change the fact that people who own electric cars are very likely to buy solar systems, and that people who own solar systems want to buy home batteries, and that in countries where Tesla has already installed utility-scale batteries, BOTH their commercial and residential batteries, AS WELL AS their solar products will become more and more attractive.
@@SilentDrex Jim Chanos lost MILLIONS if not Billions ...
Ha ha. Elon Musk is laughing all the way to the bank.
Where is this man?
Does anyone mention tsla is selling their own stock? :>
tesla has about 400k reservation of model3. that's about 17 billion dollars worth of sales! even if he runs out of money to continue, banks will fight to lent them the money!
if you lose money on every car you make, 17 billion dollars worth of sales doesn't mean shit
ThePodgyPanda how would you know they are losing money on every car they sold? Tesla already said with the revenue they make from the models and x goes for making the model3. " key would revenue! " it doesn't show they making money cause they reinvested for making other things!
Of course, nobody except tesla (and maybe not even them) knows what the profit margin (don't confuse revenue with profit) per model 3 will be. However, If you look at their financials, they struggle to make money from the model S and X (the more they sell the higher their loss for that quarter), and everybody knows that much lower priced, mass market cars, i.e. the model 3, have much lower profit margins. Every other car company currently sells EVs at a loss to get tax exemptions to make more money off their ICE line. Nobody has ever made any money off electric cars and tesla is no exception; they're burning through cash like anything and another capital raise will be needed soon (along with probable stock dilution by tesla).
Claim all you like that they're 'investing for the future', but all the other car companies (GM, BMW, Porsche, Ford etc.) are catching up with tesla's technology and have sound financials to stay afloat as companies - which tesla does not! Tesla are even having a lot of trouble making model 3s, predominantly because they can't produce enough batteries as every time the power cuts out in the gigafactory (apparently 2-3 times a week) there can be no battery production for 6 hours and the batteries produced in the last 3-4 hours have to be binned. Oh and you know how supposedly Tesla has amazing battery technology? The batteries are made by Panasonic!!
also think about the logic. the models came out in 2008. you said for ten years not one of thier cars makes any money and still in business! that is some company! now don't give me the bull shit about investors pays for it. no investors would still investing if thy don't make any returns. it just common sense! Chanos does this for his own publicity. when something big like tesla, bashing thier name will put your name out there and that's exactly what he did!
Dude you need to read up on the financials because you are severely misinformed
Watching this back in times Tesla does well is fun.
This video had lots of inaccuracies in it. And looking back didn’t age well at all.
Did this age well?
His analysis is based on the old quarterly accounting model that says if you are not making a profit this quarter your company has no chance of survival. He excludes the sheer passion that people have for the Tesla brand. He excludes the long term potential of Tesla's disruptive technology.
' if you are not making a profit this quarter your company has no chance of survival' - that is true, if musk not make profit will have to raise more capital, if not raise more capital tesla is bankrupt
You must be rich by now, if you knew the RIGHT answer 3 plus years ago! Good for you for reading through the BS...
Elon musks understands the fundamentals of rocket science, I get the feeling he also understands how finance and accounting works....
probably even more so than conceited financial "experts" who are too proud to accept that they are being schooled by an outsider
oh yeh? Why did he buy a company costing them a billion a year? Brilliant!
If you are so "Brilliant", why did you not find out why SolarCity was losing a billion a year?
The answer "GigaFactory 2" in Buffalo New York - the largest manufacturing plant for solar panels in America.
Is SolarCity still losing a billion a year? You posted your comment 12 hours ago, please tell me you have done some homework on that one?
SilentDrex the dude isn't an engineer, scientist or accountant. He's a designer at tesla. He said it himself.
Maybe Elizabeth Holmes taught him
Tesla is such a strong brand, no other car brand can compete. Some day People Will hate Volkswagen and all others for destroying the environment, not Tesla.
As we use to say "everybody with 2 fingers of forehead knows that" this means any dumb with minimum intelligence knows that.
Perhaps that's the most pure form of capitalism.
And that's what makes me respect what Elon Musk does.
Well, the Porsche is out now, and highlights how far ahead Tesla is compared with other auto makers. Additionally the Porsche brings more EV awareness.
This didn't age well
mehfoos I don’t get it...
Robert Blackford He said that Tesla Luke never be profitable. Tesla has proved they are capable of being profitable. But right now they don’t need profits as much since they are still a growing company. This quarter was bad due to poor deliveries caused by extreme demand before end of tax credit. It was just bad luck, don’t see how next quarter is going to be that bad.
Your comment didnt age well 😂
@@NBegian February 2020...yes it did . Chanos lost millions if not Billions
@@NBegian How about NOW? :D
thats a GREAT SUIT! should i go short?????
Anyone after tesla hit $420?
900 in 2020
@@Karl-Benny 1200...
1:28 Basically DC says Tesla's success is based on the model-3 not it's model S, X and roadster. Then he says the Mission E and others like it are coming (and they will compete with the model S x and roadster) Chanos has some valid points but he likes to contradict himself as well. His view is biased because he's got money in the game. He says that Tesla is highly leveraged, well high leverage is a two edged sword it can be good or bad.
Now you know why Elon is trying to go private
who do you believe ? a money guy or an engineer that actually has created something ? what Chanos says sounds reasonable buy is bias and shaddy, he is just picking on the risk of Tesla business model and magnifying the problems they had and killing Mr Musk character for final kick...
Tesla is up just because investor and people want it and as long as there is support Tesla is going to make it and when Model 3 production ramp up this guy would just move forward to bet short against other top companies ... If this is the case his hetch fund maybe is going to lose a lot of money...
Mobileye was acquired by Intel for 15billion, so, Tesla Vision could worth the same? there are both functional the only downside for Tesla Vision is the amount of data collection of the roads and maps, in which mobileye working with other bigger car companies can get. Perhaps tesla can manage to put out an autopilot less dependable on data and more on cameras, intelligent software and sensors.
tech bizz are difficult, lets say samsung develops graphene batteries, what's going to happen next? is a tough world, that no one cant predict like this Chanos guy, but right tesla has the upperhand and market momentum and as far as I know model 3 production is ramping up every minute...
Why is it only old people that hate tesla? Are they bleak they gonna miss out on the future?
Let them be. I am less than a decade younger than this guy but I'm not a fool.
It is not old people that hate Tesla.....it is PROUD people.
There are still lots of old people out there that love the company.
Because us young people are suckers for a sales pitch and can’t read a balance sheet.
@@carlmarcus2716 truer words were never spoken.
We'll see the goods today.
I make sure to hit like whenever I see people make fools of themselves like this.
It’s titled legendary short seller and the guy is disparaging a traded company...
Wow, looking back, could he have been MORE WRONG? Don’t see the face of Jim Chanos much anymore, WONDER WHY????
Watching this 11 months later
3deaster Reading this comment 11 months later
312 Million profit in Q3'18....this is an example of how Short Seller use Media!
"many believe that GM's autonomous features are better than Tesla's..."
So, your brilliant investment mind caused you to make a stupid bet, and now you are turning to the power of WISHFUL THINKING to rescue you from the hole you are in?
I don't know anything about how short-selling works, just as this dude hasn't got a clue about technology or products or consumer behavior.
You would think he would go hide somewhere by now.
No. You show me that I am wrong.
Explain what Level 4 autonomous vehicle technology is.
Then show me one GM car on the road that has it.
Or at least show me concrete evidence that GM actually has something in the works.
Actually the whole idea about "levels" of autonomy could be a misnomer. Put simply autonomy consists of five levels feet off hands off vision off brain off human off, but there is no reason why development should follow this path. Tesla's strategy for autonomy is a bet on developing an AI based vision neural net, a dramatic revision from their original strategy, other car makers those not traditionally functional as tech companies have executives who don't understand the implications and are keen on doing what everyone else is, so they go after lidar and radar which although helpful are not economical in production as of this moment, Tesla's plan requires the input of driving data collected via sensors over millions of miles to "train" the AI (machine learning in common parlance) which unfortunately none of the other carmakers or even Google currently has access to, so you have two schools of autonomy Tesla and everyone else. Tesla is betting on training an AI which will navigate the roads by using passive optical using a vision neural net, while other carmakers are banking on sophisticated sensors which will have their place and use active opticals in the visible range(for more info you can listen to musks comments in the latest earnings call). But I believe Tesla's solution is more economical and scalable and the problem of vision has to be solved to achieve autonomy. I am a computer scientist and a business student.
Well, I am a *social scientist* and a student of "data"! ;-)
And I TOTALLY agree with your view point on this.
I'll also add that.....People like to copy other people around them; People "similar" to themselves.
They also copy people who other people around them consider to be successful. And yet, most of these people forget that the people around them themselves are also copycats, and that what is perceived as success itself may not necessarily have so many qualities that are *intrinsic* to itself.
The "training of AI" in general, is something that I have been paying some level of attention to. Google is training their (deep learning) neural nets with millions of photos on the Web, so that they are slowly knowing how to recognize what specific features things have (like recognizing what a cat is).
This is why I completely appreciate your argument in favor of Tesla's approach of training neural nets. But I must add, I didn't know this was Tesla's approach until now - I had personally felt that the autonomous driving aspect of electric cars is NOT currently important to the majority of the market. At least, not as important as some of these stock "analysts" make it out to be.
Nevertheless, it is easy to see the logic in your argument, as Tesla cars come with several cameras that are capable of "seeing" and recording data from the roads that today's Teslas have been driving on, and learning from the mistakes that they are making now, to train the Teslas of tomorrow..
Your argument is *logical*, even if it possibly ends up being wrong. It would still makes tons of sense!
However, the arguments of the "experts" of the automotive world and those of investment "geniuses" like this guy in this video are often devoid of any kind of appreciable logic.
An example of such brainless logic is _"Acquiring the largest solar company in the US will destroy an electric car and battery manufacturing company"!
There is no need to try to understand why that solar company was burning cash.
Also disregard the fact that customers of EVs who own solar panels or a solar roof can generate increasingly CHEAPER and CLEAN electricity to "fuel" their electric cars" passively IN THEIR HOMES!
Hmm - being a visionary is not always seen in the face of change. Tesla has not lost its aspirational presence with the announcement of the Tesla semi and roadster. When Chanos talks about Porsche Mission E which is slower than a sedan from Tesla makes me chuckle a little. Okay, Tesla has to prove its self with the Model 3 to the masses but Tesla Has an infostructure to build which cost money, however, lets look at the big picture. Tesla as an energy company with the ability to leverage that energy how does that change things? Hmm, why is GM not setting the world on fire with the bolt? GM does not do sexy. Is battery cost going to stay the same hmm? But why trust a short seller on long-term investments?
I though dinosaurs were extinct by now
Nope. We are still waiting for the meteorite to hit and are not confused by flash in the pan events.
Does Chanos have a twitter account? 😂🤣😂🤣
I don't know how you can call people buying Musk Ox stock "investors".
How about NOW? Did you learn anything or just continue with your shallow, childish rhetoric?
What car does this cool guy drive?
Whenever I have doubts about Tesla, I listen to Jim Chanos. My money is waiting for him.
Chanos may be on suicide watch on 2020
Proven wrong by now
Number 1 is
TESLA
This did not age well 🙂. GM is still a 'Aspirational' EV car company whereas TESLA is the Real Deal!
I forgot about the mission e
Hahaha!!! 0:35 "let's not forget...."
Oh No, we haven't forgotten.
....Because SolarCity has been profitable for the past 4 months.
Plus, they say their sales people will start wearing Tesla gear from 2018, and they are bundling the Tesla battery (best in the world) with their solar panels at no upfront costs (*financing*. NOT LEASING).
And this is all happening as 500,000+ electric cars are coming into the market, which means many more new solar customers.
Dude, you are screwed!!! Hahaha
Scarlet fu + Joe = great BLACK hair
i am here to contribute a DISlike, #124, to help Elon fight for transitioning to sustainable energy.
We can all agree that electric cars & renewable energy is the future, and Tesla is 7-8 years ahead of the industry, this justifies the high stock price...
Aged like fine wine
James Clune jump to 2020 the stock is at $780
It is disgusting to looking into their arguments. Did they ever shorted Amazon, i wonder.
Truth
Tesla lose
2016г = -$773 mil
6 moths of 2017 = - $798 mil
Tesla has $21 bil. liabilities(canNOT be paid)
musk has 20% from Tesla stocks = 12 bil $
Tesl trucks will lose even more on sales
Chanos lost MILLIONS if not Billions
My god this video dosen't age well at all!
Bloomberg don't know much...
ELRON, sorry I mean ELRON, I can't say it, is it ELON, or ELRON or ENRON 2.0? ELRON = 0
You are cute, and broke obviously.
Musk should just sell himself into a bigger automaker. Maybe GM. Why not? He should just negotiate the right terms to keep all his enthusiasts following him.
GM / Ford / Chrysler Going to need more Bail outs .
yeah Tesla $700 a share
CHAOS
fiat-crysler
lose $20,000
on every fiat 500e
Yeah, ask chanos (purposefully lower case for this jackasses name) about that business model.
You might want to ask him about the entire ICE Business model where profits are heavily dependent on repair parts. Sounds great right? That will sustain us into the future huh? Customers will put up with that forever won’t they?
Legacy car companies are doomed! Thank God and Tesla.
Tesla
p/s = 8
e^ipi = -1
Won’t make profit even later this decade aye
I wonder how much money has this guy made people lose by following his advice?
no......
@@probe26 YES
@@Mrbfgray DON"T go there!
@@probe26 Why? Are YOU one of the suckers? Obviously anyone who followed THIS advice with real money lost, just as surely as *I and many I know* collected those 10's of billions. But hey--it's never easy.
@@Mrbfgray I down voted your reply...
a tesla shorter speaking.
Mercedes for life
Tesla seems a blackhole of money....
amazon not profitable for how long?
So much for lazy simple minded "thinking".
so many dislikes.
Tesla Q3 $6.3B DOH
So yo I got this company right it's based in California real tax dream right, so all i need is a liberal president to lend me about 500 million and we're gonna make teleportation devices I swear. For reals though if i stutter on stage it's cause i'm an expert I need your money though before I make them and we're gonna make 500 million units a day for realzies this time. I know I lie a lot but, come on I'm lying to change the world man. So right and if this shit don't work out I'm gonna convince people that its cheaper to Dig under fucking ground than to build above it like I'm the first person to think of this even though I'm not and the financials don't make sense. But really you should trust me because I have a background in building websites during the dotcom era with 12 other dorks who are bubble riders. Come on man TRUST ME.
Febuary 2020 , Chanos lost millions if not billions.
I think he is short term invester or a biggest fool ! Why ??
Here is why everybody knows tesla ia cash burning company , why do they dont have cash reserve coz they invested it in to profitable asset (i am not talking about giga factory or automated assembly line ) and its the charging stations, yes they are the gas pumps for future withinin next 2 to 3 yrs every major manufacturer will be selling their electric vehicle . Charging station will start to earn by 2020 . And will be the most profitable product by tesla so w8 and watch !!
There is nothing "legendary" about short-selling.
where is he on February 2020?
Profitability is one narrow assessment of a great company.
There are suppliers that have stopped shipping parts because Tesla Motors isn't paying invoices. The death spiral has begun.
I don't think Tesla Motors was a scam, I just think they do not understand their market. As much as all the alternative energy crowd would love to get everyone off oil, the infrastructure for electric cars just isn't there. In the US, the electric car market is a niche, and will be for at least another decade. Tesla Motors showed the technology is there to mainstream electric cars, but the technology to mainstream and modernize the necessary infrastructure is a long way off. And yes, when the Big Three (which is only 2 now) decide to crush Tesla, it will be game over.
"I've been on the other side of him [Chanos] many times and I've made fortunes being against him," said Icahn. "I don't mean this in a derrogatory way, but I don't see Chanos on the Forbes 400 list," he said.
Carl Icahn's words, not mine: Icahn ranks #21 on that list.
thomabb Of course it is. It's based on the false assumption that fossil fuels are a thing of the past.
Dino Rei You're as pretentious as Elon if you think he's helping the world.
Who hurt you?
Lol
Lmao
Lol...
intresying
NORGES BANK sell all 442,966 shares
12/31/2016
tesla is very popular in norway
becasue do NOT pay car taxes
L
Chanos has lost his credibility.
2020 now Chanos lost all his money
Chanos... You are screwed...
chanos looks like he is 80 years old