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Made a similar character for my Pathfinder game. She's a teenage Cleric of Iomedae, who has a tragic backstory where at age 9 she killed an orcish adventurer who was beating her brother because the two youths were caught hiding, and he thought they were going to ambush the party (a freak accident with his filched vorpal kukri). The adventurer's brother, an orcish war cleric who was also in the party, wanted recompense in the form of her death, but a Paladin of Iomedae who was part of their party refused to let him kill a child, he was also convinced by others in the group that his god wouldn't see killing a weak little girl as very worthy, but that she had killed his brother so there should be some kind of justice. So she was to be trained by the paladin until she was strong enough to face him in combat (The girl lied about her family, as she was taught to do with strangers, and appearing a destitute thieving street urchin the Paladin thought taking her in could be bettering her situation anyways). The Paladin however, who had no children of her own, came to love the girl, and so she delayed her training, and in fact ensured she would never be allowed to take her vows, and was instead trained as a Cleric as a sort of loophole (something she feels guilty about, as she swore a vow to a companion to train the girl). Not understanding why her mentor and mother figure was holding her back, when all her peers were going on to fight the great fight against evil and the crusades against the World Wound, she snuck out to prove to herself, and to her mentor that she was worthy, and got swept up in the Rise of the Runelords. She's pretty convinced she's terrible, and that Iomedae has made some kind of mistake granting her the powers of a Cleric, but she's outwardly pretty brash and overconfident. She's convinced that they wouldn't put her forward because she's a murderer, and tainted. That they were keeping her there because she's too bad a person to be let out (which was reinforced by how hard they were on her). Her hope is that either these adventures will prove them (and herself) wrong, or she'll die trying, and not be a burden anymore (very teen angst character lol). Lot's of fun to play that angst, but also that naivete of a young believer out in the real world, where things often aren't black and white. Balancing the fact that she thinks she's an awful tainted murderer, but is also often the most moral person in the room, is a fun dynamic in the group. There's a similar vein of this young person who has been told one thing about themselves, taken from their life and sheltered/controlled by well meaning people, but ultimately runs off to figure out who they are on their own. I really like Soraya, would be a fun PC to have at my table (random attacks by monks alone are a dope scene, especially as they don't want to make public why they keep trying to capture her, so they ninja smoke out of their every time they lose).
The initial tiefling idea you had was a lot like a character I'm currently playing. She's also a tiefling who was raised in a temple, who snuck out to go and try to do good in the world. I chose to flavour her astral self as a separate and malignant entity, rather than an extension of her own soul, which meant that she was raised under very strict conditions and had discipline instilled in her from a very young age. She's in tension with is a lot of the time and I flavour my use of the subclass features as it taking over in times of stress. Unfortunately, I don't feel like I've done as good of a job of RPing her as I could have, and a lot of the potential I saw in the initial concept hasn't been as realised as I'd like, but she's still been very fun to play.
I'm a D&D veteran from 3.5 and I'd love to see a core fantasy for the subclasses series. Perhaps because I was a 3.5 player and I would usually build characters with a prestige class as a goal, this is very much how I begin concepting for a character.
I'm a long time D&D player(started out in AD&D, THACO era ...I can still. Calculate it too), so I've always built my character around a Kit/Prestige/Subclass and it can be a very fun way of making them. Trying to figure out "What would make Such-an-such character pick this for them?..." really gets you into your new PC's headspace, which makes trying to figure out other aspects of them so much easier IMHO...
I actually had a wizard who started at 4th level (AD&D), and this was his first adventure. Because I was new to D&D and my character was raised in a wizard's school, I once made a hilarious mistake. We were in a cave dungeon and fighting some monsters. I used stink cloud in the chamber, not realizing that AOE magic worked differently indoors than outdoors. I ended up making my party as sick as the enemies we were fighting. Oops.... Having a sheltered character can make for some interesting interactions in the "real world".
I typically start with subclass 😊 it typically helps me work out what their backstory is. Or I start with backstory and then pick a subclass that makes sense Great video man!
I feel like you usually have to at least keep the subclass in mind when creating a character. Some subclasses drastically change what a character can do and how they interact with the world. Not just any rogue can become a soulknife, a phantom or even an arcane trickster. And setting the groundwork for the proper subclass is a big part of the character creation process, at least in my opinion.
Your ‘I like to play youthful characters to make up for not knowing how to play the class as well as the character should’ vibes is 100% why I gravitate to non magical characters in general. Like this character deserves someone who knows proper magical usage in the drivers seat.
At this point, even if the character isn't of a level to select their subclass, I typically have a subclass in mind when I create them. I definitely like watching you work your way through the process, especially when it comes to determining their background, and the associated traits.
Honestly one of my first thoughts were also Stands from Jojo's, which also focused on younger characters manifesting their powers suddenly and have to figure out how to handle them. There's a lot of inspirations you can pull from for this subclass (and the rest too) to match the stats you rolled. Which is part of why I love character creation so much
A fun bit of character appearance that would be very cool with this monk: a fire genasi's hair reflect their emotional state. If this character is being trained to have excellent self-control, they may often be bald so as to resemble their monk teachers! Could lead to some cool moments when suddenly a shock of flaming hair appears during an emotional moment.
Backgrounds are fun to mess with. I wound up playing two characters back-to-back that were both Acolytes but neither gave a rip about the gods. The first was a Minotaur Warlock that served a god who (at least from his perspective) he had a purely platonic, business relationship with. The second had been basically a mortician's assistant time out of mind at a temple until he had a brush with his own mortality, driving him to study necromancy and getting kicked out of the temple.
I kind of did this with my latest character, I’m playing in a campaign on a pirate ship and wanted to play as a character who would have trouble NOT setting the ship on fire so I went circle of wildfire druid, and then my dm suggested I go fire genasi to push the bit EVEN FURTHER, and then I chose shipwright for the background and I ended up with a really fun character! Someone whose trade is building and fixing ships who struggles with getting jobs because they keep setting stuff on fire because of who they are and what magic they like using. Highly recommend starting from subclass, it’s so fun
This is the way I make most of my characters. I check the core fantasy of the subclasses and then start trying to tie that subclass into his/her background. Not always, sometimes I go with a vibe (like Teenage Arcane Ninja Tortle), but most of the time I start there.
This tends to be the way I create my characters. Most of the games I have played in are at least level 3 as a starting point so I almost always have my subclass at outset. I find it helps me to understand who my character is easily and gives me some interesting groundwork for a backstory
I really enjoyed how you did a walkthrough after explaining how a subclass can influence your character. It really made me think about my own process of creating characters. I think I’ll try it your way the next time I make a new character
Another way i had started building new characters that has been a lot of fun for me, rolling for all my choices. Rolling for Race, rolling for class, and then rolling for background. It has lead to some interesting combinations that has been a blast figuring out how they fit
For Astral Self Monk i came up with a backstory that my Woodelf has a shard of Shar inside. She is an Avatar of Shar, but doesn't really want it. She was kidnapped as a child and trained by monks that align with shar, and wanted to form her into a weapon. Her brother (one of the other players) found her later on and busted her out. Now she only uses her Powers if they are in need, because she fears the will of Shar could take over if she taps too far into it. She does enjoy calming things, like poetry, writing her own journal, just to stay as calm as she needs. Dunno wanted to tell this since Astral self came up!
Just started a gloomstalker ranger and assassin rogue (ala Liam from ACOC). Subclasses were very important for its creation so that's how I started the character!
I did this once. I started with circle of the shepherd druid, and I noticed they got Silvan as a bonus language. So I made a character who befriended a bunch of fey, and his powers were based on fay spirits helping him in the background
I usually start with subclass! It’s the quickest way to get a cool character hook for me. My current lost mines game I decided I was gonna be a wild magic barbarian and from there I came up with my character (he’s a high int barbarian and I really love playing him)
That was the second module me and my lil' bro played (the circus one was the first). And most of the reason we homebrewed basically Cyberpunk 2013 (minus the cars) a few years before Pondsmith got to it
When i was making a character i saw that a binding of the chain warlock could get a tiny pet dragon and i immediately build my character around the kind of pact that would do that
Very cool to watch the process, I really appreciate seeing the stream as you figured it out in real time. From the other side of the table, what about character first? What would you recommend when you have a character idea first, and then you’re trying to figure out a class or subclass that fits or gets close enough to them?
I think a Core Fantasy on Subclasses would be an interesting video, though maybe making it a series for each class would makes it easier to digest (if it were to be done for 5e, of course)
Never feel like you have to be constrained by a subclass's aesthetic. Good example is my current character, a Circle of Dreams druid. Often Circle of Dreams are slightly ominous, working for some of the more dubious portions of the Fey Wild. My current character, on the other hand, is a happy-go-lucky druggie that speaks in a stereotypical surfer accent. The character idea came first, and the name of the subclass was WAY too perfect to pass up on. Also, this class reminded me of a different comic book character: Arm Fall Off Boy.
I do like an idea, that there was a mission to the fireplane where team contained adventurer from the monastery and they saw a kid there, so they saved (kidnapped) them, even though they were home there (I could see this happening around age 2, so they wouldn't know what was happening)
Except my first couple characters when I was a teen, I always start with a character concept and bit of backstory and build around it. I play with some min-maxers and drive them crazy, because I’ll choose a less useful option sometimes if it makes sense for the character.
I'm a sucker for an astral monk. Have a kobold that summons skeletal dinosaur claws. A voracious halfling that just has colossal jaws as her astral arms. And a meek halfling seamstress, who's astral self was a like Other Mother, from coralline, crossed with pinhead. Sewing needles across half of her astral head and a button eye on the other half. And sewing needle fingers.
absolutely excellent video once again! I recently designed a new character around the Hunter Ranger, making a Witcher-esqe Monster Hunter for hire. Great fun
In the most recent character creation the other players asked me what I was considering for my rouge subclass. Assassin? They asked. Gloomstalker, maybe? I replied before I realized that wasn’t actually a rouge subclass at all. Oh the embarrassment I did feel a day later when I was actually looking up subclasses and realized. 😅
My personal opinion would be that it would be better if the character had a more "monstrous" appearance. And then early in the campaign have their astral self be completely human looking representing their desire to just be normal (especially if the monks had actually told him his destiny/birthright etc) and then have the astral self change over the course of the campaign as they grow and begin to either learn who they want to be, or be more comfortable in who they are and transition it from human looking to maybe the angelic/devilish/genasi looking form.
Honestly starting with subclass is important, and personally I encourage players (both old and new players) to at least think about what you want to do for subclass. Honestly I think it’s important that some have an early subclass like cleric (I’d even say paladin) due to the nature of the flavor. One of my agregences against one dnd. (Might not have the right word their)
Lol actually my group has two people with the same subclass. Well sorta. See, I play a mainly gloomstalker ranger with a dip into scout rogue. Another player plays an assassin rogue with 5 levels of gloomstalker ranger. So, technically, we are both gloomstalker rangers/rogue multiclasses with stealth and archery as our fighting role. The difference is this. Our game is rather deadly so sending in only 1 person to scout ahead is pretty stupid. So we go together and can take advantage of our mutual darkvision based invisibility. We also can make better use of our minimal spell slots and can get more pass without a traces going in a day. So yeah we discuss a lot together during level up so we can strategize best for our party, but we do have a ton of overlap. We actually make a joke out of it half the time since our perceptions can’t keep up with our stealth so we joke that we stumble into each other a lot. That was actually our first meeting. The rest of our party got used to invisible elves bantering back and forth too. We did focus somewhat on other aspects of our play. For one, the other player focuses on poisons and slight of hand, while my character leans more into animal handling and potion craft (got both herbalism and alchemy proficiency). They are a wood elf and I’m a drow. They are a bit more greedy and spoiled (but good) and mine leans into being a bit of a sweetheart and elder sibling. So we take up different roles. Also, since my character was there from the beginning, they have the better reputation in the area that the party leans on despite the weirdness of them all (my character does have a reputation as a bit odd and surrounding themselves with weird people and things but is indulged in and liked for his kind and generous actions and generally quiet and sweet disposition). So yeah it’s really quite a fun dynamic to have two characters with the same subclass (mostly). To be honest, the assassin is likely to outpace me soon with their damage output so I might switch to two weapon fighting to constantly allow them to use sneak attack. Depends on how things pan out.
hahaha I love you rached soraya ! its the name of my main or favoraite charcter the blue dragonborn moon druid. angery self loazing filled with surviver guilt girl she is I love her sooo much
Yeah you can have two subclasses if you go high enough level in whichever class you multiclass into. (Or three or four if you multiclass a bunch of times, though I imagine the return on investment drops off dramatically)
That aatral self thing feels weird. Like, "some monks are known more for their astral form rather tha their physical appearance" doe not fit with, be ypyr astral self for 10' a day
This video made me realize I have the "same" subclass for the two characters I have despite them having different classes (way of shadow monk and shadow sorcerer)
For the "avoid two player's having the same subclass" guideline, would that apply as strongly to Fighters? I feel like the differences between Dexterity/Ranged Fighters, and Strength/Melee Fighters might be different enough to avoid some of that overlap even if two characters share a subclass... Though this feels like an "Exception which proves the rule", and there might be something similar going on with the UA5/One D&D changes for Warlock pact magic.
hi mike, i prefer the idea of starting a charakter with the subclas. to be fair i only do monks as my PCs, not that i am not able to play other classes i just like monks because they can have jack shit for equipment and still be effective in defending themselves. but this leads to a bootcamp phase if the adventures start at level 1 over and over again untill level 3 and subclass come into play. basically one would be playing the same charakter over and over again mechanicwise. same for every martial classes every fighter, barbarian oder rogue will be the same charakter like the other. the only classes who get their subclas early or right from the start are the casters. the same charakters only refers to the mechanics not the individual personalty and concepts of backgrounds. those are the points that individualize charakters in the first place not the subclass, but the subclass activates the mechanical diversity and i think it is problematic that the martials get that so late. in general i think those should be a level one decision during creation and already come into play at the point of creation on level 1. my problem is depending on how long a GM draws out the low level phase till level 3 and allows the players to get there full concept of charakter working. if it is reached after 3 adventures or so it is ok i can explain that not mechanically being able to do subclass stuff with i just needed to learn to trust my new companions. if it is drawn out over ingame years and 10 plus sessions, i need an ingame reason why i am now a ninja or a drunken fist champion or a weapon master kensai. it becomes even more annoying if the GM sets in game requirements like teachers (in any way shape or form) or so much stuff happened during that slogged out low level that a player would rather chose something different then what was planned coz it would make more sense for that charakter, but that stuff is not available for in game bullshit reasoning. a little story of one of my chars, i played a shadowmonk up to level 4 because i changed the charakter due it didn´t fit the group and campaign anymore. but i should start with his backstory first so its more understandable what i mean. the back story was simply put he was a trained assassin shadowmonk with its peak at level 17 when he brought down his own order for their crimes and missconduct to the spirit of the founder of the order. but that time was about a hundred years ago, finally free from his burdening past he neglected his training except for a bare minimum (level 1 monk) and would start the actual adventure at the beginning level. the only thing left over from that time is some tactical expierience according to how not to die while adventuring, but found himself as the only frontliner of the party gettting his ass kicked, knocking on deaths door in the first 4 sessions more often than his whole life before the start of that adventure. totally traumatized when the group can finally move on from that horrible start area he wants a hard drink and relax his soul a little but in this fuggin town is not a single drop of liquor to be found. that was the time the subclass was gonna kick in. the original plan was at every level up as he uses his "new" abillities he would have a meditative flashback to a lesson from his masters or an expierience from his adventures from the backstory where he learned the possibilities of his new level, like in the series named kung fu with david carradine. but by that point it would have made more sense for the charakter to learn a new skill set based on alcoholism, the way of the drunken master seemed the logical way, but as said not a single drop of booze to be found in the starting town, so i stayed with the original plan, but wasn´t happy with that charakter any more since it didn´t felt right anymore so i opted to change it with a different one. now i play a pirate tabaxi pirate who is by tool proficiency a shipwright, and learned to hold her liquor through partying hard with her crew mates and therefore is a drunken master monk. she is more accepting of death than the other character and fits much more into the chaotic nature of the party than the traumatised drow shadow assassin ever would. so my problem with not starting something as a full concept is that i will play the charakter a long time like any other (mechanically speaking) until i am allowed to be what i wanted it to be in the first place. if this phase is dragged out longer than needed because GM enjoys this phase too much for his own good, the stuff that happens could change my plans (what not exactly is a problem in itself) and becomes cumbersome and annoying when now i have to find a teacher for the changed plan or some other stuff happens so i can´t find one. i think at least with eypierienced players things should start at level 3, they are aware of what is possible in the game and how the most early and easy class features come into play, why drag them through bootcamp everytime again when a new campaign starts?
i'd love to see some core fantasy by subclass videos somewhen! i liked the one you did for the classes a lot since i never explicitely thought about it like that before then
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What type of character would you have created, and how would they be different from this one?
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Made a similar character for my Pathfinder game. She's a teenage Cleric of Iomedae, who has a tragic backstory where at age 9 she killed an orcish adventurer who was beating her brother because the two youths were caught hiding, and he thought they were going to ambush the party (a freak accident with his filched vorpal kukri). The adventurer's brother, an orcish war cleric who was also in the party, wanted recompense in the form of her death, but a Paladin of Iomedae who was part of their party refused to let him kill a child, he was also convinced by others in the group that his god wouldn't see killing a weak little girl as very worthy, but that she had killed his brother so there should be some kind of justice. So she was to be trained by the paladin until she was strong enough to face him in combat (The girl lied about her family, as she was taught to do with strangers, and appearing a destitute thieving street urchin the Paladin thought taking her in could be bettering her situation anyways). The Paladin however, who had no children of her own, came to love the girl, and so she delayed her training, and in fact ensured she would never be allowed to take her vows, and was instead trained as a Cleric as a sort of loophole (something she feels guilty about, as she swore a vow to a companion to train the girl). Not understanding why her mentor and mother figure was holding her back, when all her peers were going on to fight the great fight against evil and the crusades against the World Wound, she snuck out to prove to herself, and to her mentor that she was worthy, and got swept up in the Rise of the Runelords.
She's pretty convinced she's terrible, and that Iomedae has made some kind of mistake granting her the powers of a Cleric, but she's outwardly pretty brash and overconfident. She's convinced that they wouldn't put her forward because she's a murderer, and tainted. That they were keeping her there because she's too bad a person to be let out (which was reinforced by how hard they were on her). Her hope is that either these adventures will prove them (and herself) wrong, or she'll die trying, and not be a burden anymore (very teen angst character lol). Lot's of fun to play that angst, but also that naivete of a young believer out in the real world, where things often aren't black and white. Balancing the fact that she thinks she's an awful tainted murderer, but is also often the most moral person in the room, is a fun dynamic in the group.
There's a similar vein of this young person who has been told one thing about themselves, taken from their life and sheltered/controlled by well meaning people, but ultimately runs off to figure out who they are on their own.
I really like Soraya, would be a fun PC to have at my table (random attacks by monks alone are a dope scene, especially as they don't want to make public why they keep trying to capture her, so they ninja smoke out of their every time they lose).
The initial tiefling idea you had was a lot like a character I'm currently playing. She's also a tiefling who was raised in a temple, who snuck out to go and try to do good in the world. I chose to flavour her astral self as a separate and malignant entity, rather than an extension of her own soul, which meant that she was raised under very strict conditions and had discipline instilled in her from a very young age. She's in tension with is a lot of the time and I flavour my use of the subclass features as it taking over in times of stress. Unfortunately, I don't feel like I've done as good of a job of RPing her as I could have, and a lot of the potential I saw in the initial concept hasn't been as realised as I'd like, but she's still been very fun to play.
I'm a D&D veteran from 3.5 and I'd love to see a core fantasy for the subclasses series. Perhaps because I was a 3.5 player and I would usually build characters with a prestige class as a goal, this is very much how I begin concepting for a character.
Interestingly, some prestige classes from 3.5e got adapted as subclasses in 5e, like Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Horizon Walker, etc.
I'm a long time D&D player(started out in AD&D, THACO era ...I can still. Calculate it too), so I've always built my character around a Kit/Prestige/Subclass and it can be a very fun way of making them. Trying to figure out "What would make Such-an-such character pick this for them?..." really gets you into your new PC's headspace, which makes trying to figure out other aspects of them so much easier IMHO...
I actually had a wizard who started at 4th level (AD&D), and this was his first adventure. Because I was new to D&D and my character was raised in a wizard's school, I once made a hilarious mistake. We were in a cave dungeon and fighting some monsters. I used stink cloud in the chamber, not realizing that AOE magic worked differently indoors than outdoors. I ended up making my party as sick as the enemies we were fighting. Oops.... Having a sheltered character can make for some interesting interactions in the "real world".
I typically start with subclass 😊 it typically helps me work out what their backstory is.
Or I start with backstory and then pick a subclass that makes sense
Great video man!
I feel like you usually have to at least keep the subclass in mind when creating a character. Some subclasses drastically change what a character can do and how they interact with the world. Not just any rogue can become a soulknife, a phantom or even an arcane trickster. And setting the groundwork for the proper subclass is a big part of the character creation process, at least in my opinion.
Your ‘I like to play youthful characters to make up for not knowing how to play the class as well as the character should’ vibes is 100% why I gravitate to non magical characters in general. Like this character deserves someone who knows proper magical usage in the drivers seat.
At this point, even if the character isn't of a level to select their subclass, I typically have a subclass in mind when I create them. I definitely like watching you work your way through the process, especially when it comes to determining their background, and the associated traits.
Honestly one of my first thoughts were also Stands from Jojo's, which also focused on younger characters manifesting their powers suddenly and have to figure out how to handle them. There's a lot of inspirations you can pull from for this subclass (and the rest too) to match the stats you rolled. Which is part of why I love character creation so much
A fun bit of character appearance that would be very cool with this monk: a fire genasi's hair reflect their emotional state. If this character is being trained to have excellent self-control, they may often be bald so as to resemble their monk teachers! Could lead to some cool moments when suddenly a shock of flaming hair appears during an emotional moment.
Backgrounds are fun to mess with. I wound up playing two characters back-to-back that were both Acolytes but neither gave a rip about the gods. The first was a Minotaur Warlock that served a god who (at least from his perspective) he had a purely platonic, business relationship with. The second had been basically a mortician's assistant time out of mind at a temple until he had a brush with his own mortality, driving him to study necromancy and getting kicked out of the temple.
I have always wanted to play the astral self monk and my wife’s name is Soraya so… thanks for MY video Mike!
Haha you’re welcome!
I think you’re on the right track with a sub class video series with each video focusing on a different classes
I kind of did this with my latest character, I’m playing in a campaign on a pirate ship and wanted to play as a character who would have trouble NOT setting the ship on fire so I went circle of wildfire druid, and then my dm suggested I go fire genasi to push the bit EVEN FURTHER, and then I chose shipwright for the background and I ended up with a really fun character! Someone whose trade is building and fixing ships who struggles with getting jobs because they keep setting stuff on fire because of who they are and what magic they like using. Highly recommend starting from subclass, it’s so fun
I would happily sit there and watch a 12 hour video on the core fantasy of every subclass.
This is the way I make most of my characters. I check the core fantasy of the subclasses and then start trying to tie that subclass into his/her background. Not always, sometimes I go with a vibe (like Teenage Arcane Ninja Tortle), but most of the time I start there.
This tends to be the way I create my characters. Most of the games I have played in are at least level 3 as a starting point so I almost always have my subclass at outset. I find it helps me to understand who my character is easily and gives me some interesting groundwork for a backstory
I really enjoyed how you did a walkthrough after explaining how a subclass can influence your character. It really made me think about my own process of creating characters. I think I’ll try it your way the next time I make a new character
Another way i had started building new characters that has been a lot of fun for me, rolling for all my choices. Rolling for Race, rolling for class, and then rolling for background. It has lead to some interesting combinations that has been a blast figuring out how they fit
"Don't run the same subclass in a group"
Me with my plans for an all Totem Barbarians game:
For Astral Self Monk i came up with a backstory that my Woodelf has a shard of Shar inside. She is an Avatar of Shar, but doesn't really want it. She was kidnapped as a child and trained by monks that align with shar, and wanted to form her into a weapon.
Her brother (one of the other players) found her later on and busted her out.
Now she only uses her Powers if they are in need, because she fears the will of Shar could take over if she taps too far into it.
She does enjoy calming things, like poetry, writing her own journal, just to stay as calm as she needs. Dunno wanted to tell this since Astral self came up!
Just started a gloomstalker ranger and assassin rogue (ala Liam from ACOC). Subclasses were very important for its creation so that's how I started the character!
I did this once. I started with circle of the shepherd druid, and I noticed they got Silvan as a bonus language. So I made a character who befriended a bunch of fey, and his powers were based on fay spirits helping him in the background
I usually start with subclass! It’s the quickest way to get a cool character hook for me. My current lost mines game I decided I was gonna be a wild magic barbarian and from there I came up with my character (he’s a high int barbarian and I really love playing him)
That was the second module me and my lil' bro played (the circus one was the first). And most of the reason we homebrewed basically Cyberpunk 2013 (minus the cars) a few years before Pondsmith got to it
3:56 one dnd subclass core fantasy vids sound cool
When i was making a character i saw that a binding of the chain warlock could get a tiny pet dragon and i immediately build my character around the kind of pact that would do that
I would love a subclass series of videos. I know very little about subclasses.
I played an Air Genasi Tempest Cleric who got her powers because she though her missing adventurer mom was so cool. It was fun.
I would love to see the subclass breakdown videos you talked about!
Very cool to watch the process, I really appreciate seeing the stream as you figured it out in real time.
From the other side of the table, what about character first? What would you recommend when you have a character idea first, and then you’re trying to figure out a class or subclass that fits or gets close enough to them?
I think a Core Fantasy on Subclasses would be an interesting video, though maybe making it a series for each class would makes it easier to digest (if it were to be done for 5e, of course)
Never feel like you have to be constrained by a subclass's aesthetic. Good example is my current character, a Circle of Dreams druid. Often Circle of Dreams are slightly ominous, working for some of the more dubious portions of the Fey Wild. My current character, on the other hand, is a happy-go-lucky druggie that speaks in a stereotypical surfer accent. The character idea came first, and the name of the subclass was WAY too perfect to pass up on. Also, this class reminded me of a different comic book character: Arm Fall Off Boy.
“I may need to bring that up in therapy sometime…”
Been there 😂
I do like an idea, that there was a mission to the fireplane where team contained adventurer from the monastery and they saw a kid there, so they saved (kidnapped) them, even though they were home there (I could see this happening around age 2, so they wouldn't know what was happening)
Except my first couple characters when I was a teen, I always start with a character concept and bit of backstory and build around it. I play with some min-maxers and drive them crazy, because I’ll choose a less useful option sometimes if it makes sense for the character.
I'm a sucker for an astral monk. Have a kobold that summons skeletal dinosaur claws. A voracious halfling that just has colossal jaws as her astral arms. And a meek halfling seamstress, who's astral self was a like Other Mother, from coralline, crossed with pinhead. Sewing needles across half of her astral head and a button eye on the other half. And sewing needle fingers.
absolutely excellent video once again! I recently designed a new character around the Hunter Ranger, making a Witcher-esqe Monster Hunter for hire. Great fun
In the most recent character creation the other players asked me what I was considering for my rouge subclass. Assassin? They asked. Gloomstalker, maybe? I replied before I realized that wasn’t actually a rouge subclass at all. Oh the embarrassment I did feel a day later when I was actually looking up subclasses and realized. 😅
do the "core fantasy of the subclass fantasy" by class... one class at a time.
Start with sorcerer.
My personal opinion would be that it would be better if the character had a more "monstrous" appearance. And then early in the campaign have their astral self be completely human looking representing their desire to just be normal (especially if the monks had actually told him his destiny/birthright etc) and then have the astral self change over the course of the campaign as they grow and begin to either learn who they want to be, or be more comfortable in who they are and transition it from human looking to maybe the angelic/devilish/genasi looking form.
7:15
"You know what this reminds me a lot of?'
Me: JoJo.
"The X-Men character Armor."
Me: I guess that works too.
Great video as always!
I do this a lot. I multiclass later, but character concept is based a lot on the subclass I want to use.
3:56
I've never played DnD before, I'd love to try it out.
But it's definitely not going to be one DnD.
5e or 3.5 sounds more attractive to me.
Love this concept.
Honestly starting with subclass is important, and personally I encourage players (both old and new players) to at least think about what you want to do for subclass. Honestly I think it’s important that some have an early subclass like cleric (I’d even say paladin) due to the nature of the flavor. One of my agregences against one dnd. (Might not have the right word their)
For completion sake: Warlocks also get their subclass at level 1 and Druids get theirs at level 2.
Ah I forgot about both!
anyone else getting Zagreus vibes from Soraya as well? (to be clear: this is a good thing, imo.)
I also had to look up gn terms for prince/princess and there's no consensus as there rarely is for things like that but I settled on Princet
Lol actually my group has two people with the same subclass. Well sorta. See, I play a mainly gloomstalker ranger with a dip into scout rogue. Another player plays an assassin rogue with 5 levels of gloomstalker ranger. So, technically, we are both gloomstalker rangers/rogue multiclasses with stealth and archery as our fighting role. The difference is this. Our game is rather deadly so sending in only 1 person to scout ahead is pretty stupid. So we go together and can take advantage of our mutual darkvision based invisibility. We also can make better use of our minimal spell slots and can get more pass without a traces going in a day. So yeah we discuss a lot together during level up so we can strategize best for our party, but we do have a ton of overlap. We actually make a joke out of it half the time since our perceptions can’t keep up with our stealth so we joke that we stumble into each other a lot. That was actually our first meeting. The rest of our party got used to invisible elves bantering back and forth too. We did focus somewhat on other aspects of our play. For one, the other player focuses on poisons and slight of hand, while my character leans more into animal handling and potion craft (got both herbalism and alchemy proficiency). They are a wood elf and I’m a drow. They are a bit more greedy and spoiled (but good) and mine leans into being a bit of a sweetheart and elder sibling. So we take up different roles. Also, since my character was there from the beginning, they have the better reputation in the area that the party leans on despite the weirdness of them all (my character does have a reputation as a bit odd and surrounding themselves with weird people and things but is indulged in and liked for his kind and generous actions and generally quiet and sweet disposition). So yeah it’s really quite a fun dynamic to have two characters with the same subclass (mostly). To be honest, the assassin is likely to outpace me soon with their damage output so I might switch to two weapon fighting to constantly allow them to use sneak attack. Depends on how things pan out.
hahaha I love you rached soraya ! its the name of my main or favoraite charcter the blue dragonborn moon druid. angery self loazing filled with surviver guilt girl she is I love her sooo much
"I like fire" -Mike, 2023
When you multi class do you get a subclass for the class you added on to your original class?
Yeah you can have two subclasses if you go high enough level in whichever class you multiclass into. (Or three or four if you multiclass a bunch of times, though I imagine the return on investment drops off dramatically)
That aatral self thing feels weird.
Like, "some monks are known more for their astral form rather tha their physical appearance" doe not fit with, be ypyr astral self for 10' a day
This video made me realize I have the "same" subclass for the two characters I have despite them having different classes (way of shadow monk and shadow sorcerer)
First!!!!! love you bro
For the "avoid two player's having the same subclass" guideline, would that apply as strongly to Fighters?
I feel like the differences between Dexterity/Ranged Fighters, and Strength/Melee Fighters might be different enough to avoid some of that overlap even if two characters share a subclass...
Though this feels like an "Exception which proves the rule", and there might be something similar going on with the UA5/One D&D changes for Warlock pact magic.
Something angelic (Aasimar) that has a Devil/Demon aspect would have been interesting. Looks not matching lineage and all that.
hi mike, i prefer the idea of starting a charakter with the subclas.
to be fair i only do monks as my PCs, not that i am not able to play other classes i just like monks because they can have jack shit for equipment and still be effective in defending themselves.
but this leads to a bootcamp phase if the adventures start at level 1 over and over again untill level 3 and subclass come into play.
basically one would be playing the same charakter over and over again mechanicwise.
same for every martial classes every fighter, barbarian oder rogue will be the same charakter like the other.
the only classes who get their subclas early or right from the start are the casters.
the same charakters only refers to the mechanics not the individual personalty and concepts of backgrounds.
those are the points that individualize charakters in the first place not the subclass, but the subclass activates the mechanical diversity and i think it is problematic that the martials get that so late.
in general i think those should be a level one decision during creation and already come into play at the point of creation on level 1.
my problem is depending on how long a GM draws out the low level phase till level 3 and allows the players to get there full concept of charakter working.
if it is reached after 3 adventures or so it is ok i can explain that not mechanically being able to do subclass stuff with i just needed to learn to trust my new companions.
if it is drawn out over ingame years and 10 plus sessions, i need an ingame reason why i am now a ninja or a drunken fist champion or a weapon master kensai.
it becomes even more annoying if the GM sets in game requirements like teachers (in any way shape or form) or so much stuff happened during that slogged out low level that a player would rather chose something different then what was planned coz it would make more sense for that charakter, but that stuff is not available for in game bullshit reasoning.
a little story of one of my chars, i played a shadowmonk up to level 4 because i changed the charakter due it didn´t fit the group and campaign anymore.
but i should start with his backstory first so its more understandable what i mean.
the back story was simply put he was a trained assassin shadowmonk with its peak at level 17 when he brought down his own order for their crimes and missconduct to the spirit of the founder of the order.
but that time was about a hundred years ago, finally free from his burdening past he neglected his training except for a bare minimum (level 1 monk) and would start the actual adventure at the beginning level.
the only thing left over from that time is some tactical expierience according to how not to die while adventuring, but found himself as the only frontliner of the party gettting his ass kicked, knocking on deaths door in the first 4 sessions more often than his whole life before the start of that adventure.
totally traumatized when the group can finally move on from that horrible start area he wants a hard drink and relax his soul a little but in this fuggin town is not a single drop of liquor to be found.
that was the time the subclass was gonna kick in.
the original plan was at every level up as he uses his "new" abillities he would have a meditative flashback to a lesson from his masters or an expierience from his adventures from the backstory where he learned the possibilities of his new level, like in the series named kung fu with david carradine.
but by that point it would have made more sense for the charakter to learn a new skill set based on alcoholism, the way of the drunken master seemed the logical way, but as said not a single drop of booze to be found in the starting town, so i stayed with the original plan, but wasn´t happy with that charakter any more since it didn´t felt right anymore so i opted to change it with a different one.
now i play a pirate tabaxi pirate who is by tool proficiency a shipwright, and learned to hold her liquor through partying hard with her crew mates and therefore is a drunken master monk. she is more accepting of death than the other character and fits much more into the chaotic nature of the party than the traumatised drow shadow assassin ever would.
so my problem with not starting something as a full concept is that i will play the charakter a long time like any other (mechanically speaking) until i am allowed to be what i wanted it to be in the first place.
if this phase is dragged out longer than needed because GM enjoys this phase too much for his own good, the stuff that happens could change my plans (what not exactly is a problem in itself) and becomes cumbersome and annoying when now i have to find a teacher for the changed plan or some other stuff happens so i can´t find one.
i think at least with eypierienced players things should start at level 3, they are aware of what is possible in the game and how the most early and easy class features come into play, why drag them through bootcamp everytime again when a new campaign starts?
I think a series on each class's subclasses would be fascinating! Well-worth the wait
i'd love to see some core fantasy by subclass videos somewhen! i liked the one you did for the classes a lot since i never explicitely thought about it like that before then
18:01 Been fortunate enough to have discovered a therapist that's as nerdy as I am, and having that shared language definitely makes it easier.
i’d love to see core fantasy subclass videos by class