The Davidthedogtrainer Podcast 105 - Discussing The Gary Wilkes & Karen Pryor Controversy!
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- www.miraclek9training.com
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43:00...43:05.. Training doesn't fix dogs, training teaches you how to understand the dog that you have, and establish communication to provide what the dog needs to be successful.
MAJOR KEY haha
@@MiracleK9Training yes it is and I appreciate you saying it.
Just found you guys today. Really appreciate that more trainers are speaking up. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and with all the "bans" looming over this industry, folk need more takes like this! Keep up the great work!
Much appreciated. Trying our hardest to provide an honest take on everything.
15:50 for what you clicked for.
Lol appreciate it!
I´m studying to become a dogbehaviorist now and i had to read don´t shot the dog, linked this video to the whole class. great video
Appreciate the listen! Don’t shoot the dog is a great book but the foundations in which it’s written are a bit faulty as is the force free ideology
People have moved on from clicker queen Karen Pryor and onto Bark Box king Zac George. 😂
Wild right? haha
@@MiracleK9TrainingWhy the hell that "anyone" (Pryor) would allow their aggressive little shit to roam the neighborhood at will to engage other animals in fights, is beyond unbelievable, just train your fucking dog. It's almost criminal she was responsible for her dog's death.
I advocate for the safety of my dogs first, meaning I don't allow human idiots and their ill-trained animals engage with my dogs, I'll gladly take the title of neighborhood's "biggest asshole", .
@@cherylmillard2067 I’m totally with ya on that. I’be had plenty of neighbors in the past I’ve had to have the conversation that their dog can’t be on my property lol
You lads talked about iconic movie dogs--surprise of surprises that's my parnter. yeah that's right not only am i unmatched on YT 1/4 mile sit stay 1/4 mile recall 110lbs American Bulldog trained to limp, work with a jungle dog, 3 dog challenge--my partner is Robert Weatherwax. We can fill you in on all the Lassie, Ol Yller, Toto, Homeward Bound stuff.
I gotta sniff this one again. It was mentioned in the Circle of Insight podcast.
It's like a dog who's biting its own podcast tail again and again.
hahaha. I do remember it coming up in that conversation.
You have to absolutely know what you're doing to rehome and rehab aggressive dogs and always account for the fact they will resort to their bad habits if the situation they are in call for it. I agree there is no "fixing" dogs, it is management for the rest of their life, always predicting both of your next moves and constantly striving to improve. I was both incredibly lucky and incredibly well informed when I went to pick up my cane corso from his rehome/rescue situation. He has never shown my family aggression, but you can easily tell when he's uncomfortable, fearful, lacking confidence. Being a corso he's also truly protective, and that gets him into trouble at times. From June last year to now we have come so very far and continue to make strives everyday. We have had zero bites, but a few close calls between other people letting their dogs run up on us or just generally not respecting our space. Everytime he was given the opportunity to aggress, I've called him off and corrected him. Everytime he had the opportunity to bite a dog or person, he's held himself back for that brief instant before the recall. I have called him off of would be dog fights, and would be people bites and I'm certain the aversion training we do as balanced trainers is why that has been possible. It's not a bragging point, it's real world experience.
It’s not at all that it isn’t POSSIBLE. but the likelyhood of it working out is so low unless you either ARE a trainer, OR have been involved in training and behavior mod before where you understand the severity of everything.
@MiracleK9Training 💯 completely agree and wish people would stop buying these breeds if they aren't going to learn how to deal with them. I saw this older couple on Instagram with a young growing corso just let it free out in their front driveway and they had 0 obedience training with them. It breaks my heart that people don't realize that the dogs come bred with protective instincts that have been developed over 2,000 years for this breed and wonder why they want to kill the neighbor and any animals they see its because they don't socialize them, never bothered to research the breed, and don't understand what's going on inside the dogs mind. I was only successful in my case because I did ALL the research I could on corsos, and I got really lucky in finding the perfect boy that needed his one true home. ❤️ 🐾
He bamned me from his FB page for correcting him. Especially when it comes to veterinary issues. Being my husband is a very out of the box vet
Gary has a short fuse lol. That happens when you get older I’m sure haha
In the last few days, our favourite RUclips FF trainer and self proclaimed science based dog trainer spokesperson Zak George posted a video addressing 'his haters' regarding how his own dog is not off-leashed trained.
I'd love to see a reaction to that vide form you guys !
I casually watched it. I've never been touting that his dogs aren't trained. They have been trained to his likings and standards. I don't think that's a good argument that our side has been making either. Training is contingent on the metric that the owner finds acceptable.
@@MiracleK9Training That's true! 100% agree.
However , while 'a properly trained dog', whatever that means, covers an entire spectrum of behaviours, there are a few things that we could consider as minimum requirements (Recall, stay, out/drop it and such), at least that my view point; to safeguard the dog's, other people's and our own wellbeing.
I believe he posted the video to 'show' that he can control his dog under 'heavy distractions'.
However, IMO, this doesn't completely address the underlying argument his trying to 'proof': that he has 100% of his dog under heavy stimulant environments, assuming that he's trained his dog with a 'Positive Reinforcement Only' approach.
Yes, we can see how he lets go of the leash on a big empty field, or has her down/stay while he plays with his wife's dog; but just as you mentioned in one of your other videos, you have the ability to show us how you go hiking with your dog, around wild animals, other people, a different environment, etc...
To me, that's not the same as to what he showed as 'proof'.
Didn't his dog try to 'bite' another dog at a dog park and the internet 'went bonkers' about how he handled the situation?
I think we've all watched videos of well respected Balanced Trainers showing them work their dogs near the vicinity of dog parks? around life stock? around cars? inside hardware/pet friendly stores?
I agree that the simple statement of 'he can't even train his own dogs' is a bit pedantic, but I believe the underlying argument I am explaining above, is what we would really like to see :)
And, personally, I would like to hear your thoughts on that, maybe I am completely wrong and he's address it before, or maybe is something that doesn't really matters, I just thought it could add some value to see and also, could bring some more entertainment to this whole 'war', lol
@@geekgainz1378 I'm with ya on that! Naturally anyone can put together a video like that to make it seem as though their dog is perfect around all distractions. It would be interesting to see it under many different situations in real life to see if they have the same control they say.
20:00 Oooof what a violation 🤣
LOL yup
I wonder if there's something to the aesthetic of throwing something at a dog that just breaks people's minds. It comes off as a super silly thing at face value so I wonder if somebody who already looks at aversion as an evil thing if they're gonna see you throwing a thing at a dog and just see red.
It 100% is the visual aspect. I think that it could be a shoe string but if you’re throwing something with the intent to hit the dog it just visually looks bad. Even though I think the bonker can be one of the single most powerful and effective tools for most clients, we rarely use it for that reason.
If you take Karen Pryor's courses youre not allowed to train woth anyone else
My question is always, why would they need to do that if it was the best way
ty for naming names hahahhaha... now how aboout racheal fusaro.... i mean how and why
I don’t actually know that name haha. I’ll look into it!
Well, I’ve been training dogs for 25 years and I personally don’t like using emotions at all
I think he uses his emotions too much
As to the bonker? your right all tools
are usable although I don’t use it
Emotions don’t have any place when you’re actually training dogs. As far as your communication with people. To each their own 🤷♂️ haha
@@MiracleK9Training so true
I agree so much, I feel emotions cloud the learning experience. You can show happiness or disdain for your dogs actions, but to truly teach them right from wrong and to take your obedience to the next level I've found being calm and practically emotionless gives more power to your voice, commands, hand signals because the dog can't just read your face and predict how to act accordingly.
@@BonnersMonsters Absolutely!!
do you get better response time when your dog has the collar on? does your dog perform best under a stim? The average dog owner is not going to be able to use a boker effectively lmfao
Collar on early in the training stages can definitely increase compliance until the response you're looking for just becomes habitual to the dog. As far as perform best under stim, if you're referring to "amplifying commands" by always giving stimulations with a command, we don't use the ecollar in that fashion. Once the command is taught we simply use it for non compliance. so the command should be best without the stimulation. And lastly as far as bonker, i'm not a huge fan of using it regularly with clients. I don't think its hard to use, but there is a lot of emotional charge behind it.
@@MiracleK9Training Gotcha. So if the collar is only for non compliance, and you need to keep it on for safety's sake, is it fair to say the dog is more motivated by the threat of the collar than the potential reward from responding to your voice? Appreciate the dialogue!!
@@tombain6900 I would change that just a tad to the dog is compliant due to the threat of the CONSEQUENCE as the underlying what "REALLY" keeps the dog compliant. But through our training can additionally be compliant due to reward for correct behavior. You can want to achieve something positive and avoiding something unpleasant at the same time.
@@MiracleK9Training The consequence is the collar turning on. "You can want to achieve something positive and avoiding something unpleasant at the same time." isn't a true statement. You may be holding both ideas in your head but the dog certainly is not. My guess would that your clients rely way more on aversives than positive reward. That being said I eat meat. "Balanced Trainers" is such a cucked marketing term... just be about it ya know?
@@tombain6900 interesting idea. So what you’re saying is that once you’ve taught that there is a consequence for non compliance of something that it is then quite literally impossible for a dog to want to perform the behavior in question?
As far as your last thing about “just be about it”, can you elaborate on what you mean by that?
...discussing 'The Controversy' of 2 trainers that most dog owners never heard of? Skip it and take training classes for your DOG. He is selling something and getting sponsored.
Im selling dog training services :). No sponsors on my podcast show!
Well, that was cool. Heard a different side of you, and you seem like a pretty good guy. Was also educational about stuff happening in the world of dog trainers. Shows me that you have to watch someone’s videos to know them at ALL. People make snap judgements based on one video all the time, which isn’t fair. I hope you get more people tuning in here. I’m learning a lot! 👍🏼
glad you enjoyed the episode!