I'm so glad you are talking openly about this now Harri, and that you continued to coax Harri into the public eye Rick. Watching Harri's first Batgap interview triggered an awakening in my heart and experiences that I now equates to a realisation described by some as god consciousness - a deep love and connection to the divine heart, an exceptional closeness and radiance. It's wonderful watching these later interviews and seeing what they inspire within my continued awakening. Thank you both so much for what you are offering - I for one am profiting immensely from your conversations :)
And Harri is absolutely lovable. I find it amazing how different Western "enlightenment" is from its Eastern counterpart. I would venture to say it's much purer and more humble, which I truly rejoice to see. You don't need to be all decked in jewelery and fine silks, with a garland of people making puja and bowing to your feet for blessings. We went a long way, the need to divinize people dies out, we're there now.
Rick, you're a great guy. I hate to see so much criticism of you, at least lately. It saddens me that people do not appreciate your work for what it's worth, regardless of their personal preference in relation to this or that interview. So, I thank you, on behalf of many others I'm sure, for your selfless and bountiful giving. It really IS appreciated.
Kainos Anthropos Well put. I join with you in shared gratitude to Rick and his gifts. I have noticed that those who often talk about 'there is no one here' and 'all is empty' etc, seems to be the least tolerant and humble ones when it comes to respond to people who is researching the huge experience of being human. And as far as I can see, enlightenment without basic humility and respectful manners is not possible, no matter how non-existent these people may see these qualities.
I like how Harri tells that Being Awake does not have to have any flashy experiences that go with it. For me the Natural state is very ordinary suttle with a knowing of Well Being. If people are chasing flashy experiences they are going down the wrong road of understanding. i also hate the word enlightenment because that word seems to point to flashy states of being. Very special interview ...Thank you both
larz hillbot what's wrong with wanting flashy experiences... what's wrong with wanting more... ideas of heaven, spiritual travel and enlightenment are very flashy
If it weren't for flashy expereinces then most people wouldn't even have started down the path. Flashy expereinces represent the vastness of ourselves, people need them to snap out of the mundaneness of their current lives.
i disagree i think most start on the path when they hit a mid life crisis so to speak or looking for a meaning to life after every thing seems pointless on the hamster wheel of life.
Hey Rick! I am enjoying this conversation. Can you please interview Eckhart Tolle? I imagine you two could have a great conversation. Thank you for all your efforts, these interviews are helpful.
Very interesting. Many of these experiences of abiding silence are talked about in various traditions. I experience a sense of awakening which I interpret based on the Buddhist path as a form of absorption that has lingering effects on daily life. It's like a sign post on the road to enlightenment. There are many systems that attempt to give a roadmap to enlightenment. Not sure if it's awakened mind or mind that is on pointed and tranquil. Maybe it's the same?
I am not sure what Harri’s position is on the Ajata doctrine, but some people might like to look into it. There is a very good description on David Godman’s blog. Ajata was Ramana Maharshi’s position, although he also taught other doctrines for those who were not able to accept the illogicality of Ajata:- “There is no creation, no destruction, no bondage, no longing to be freed from bondage, no striving to be free [from bondage], nor anyone who has attained [freedom from bondage]. Know that this is the ultimate truth.” Translation from the Tamil endering by Sri Ramana Maharshi. “one who is poperly established in the Atman knows that nothing happens in this world and that nothing is ever destroyed. Something is felt to be happening only when we are in the state of pramata, the knower. This state is not one’s real nature. For the jnani who has given up the idea of the knower, nothing ever happens.” (The Power of the Presence part one, p. 238) “This is an interesting comment that explains, to some extent, the paradox of ajata. Something can only happen or exist if there is a knower or an experiencer of it. If there is no seer of the world, the world itself is not there, and never was. It is hard to defend any of this logically or rationally, so don’t expect me to do so in the ‘responses’ section. All I can say is that this is what certain masters have said on this topic, and I can add that they have all said this on the basis oftheir own direct experience of the Self.””“A few weeks ago someone asked me (Papaji), ‘You say that the world is a projection of the mind, and that you yourself have no mind. If you have no mind, how does the world still appear to you?’ I answered, ‘I don’t see any world, so I don’t need any explanation for its appearance. If I ever see a world in front of me, then I will have to think up an explanation for it.’”
I think it would be very interesting for both of you to explore the primordial principles of universal Intelligence, as described in the real science of Astrology. For example the universal principle of centeredness which as a symbol appears as a circle with a dot in the middle. It represents the sun but also centeredness in all of existence. The I Am for example, the solar plexus or any other center in the expression of life, existence, consciousness. They are abstract and tangible at the same time.
*HE'S BACK !* Replies: + Jamie Orangepeel: Well, I've never completely departed, just stopped rating. But there are so many other pressing issues that batgap old news really has a back seat unless something eminent is being delivered apart from _"I am selling a new book on the sensitivtiy increase in beta males becoming aware of their beta status by meditating, and so they get sick if they masturbate and also if they don't"_ - yawn. Hence I listen only to the real goodies. You know, we're heading for WW III, and these baby boomers are still focusing on and selling their pseudo liberal banker propaganda, and some other chicks are focusing on combining sex appeal with garbled new age nonsense to sell themselves and their souls. I am getting the sense that my years of rating has straightened that out a bit and Rick is since vetting just a liiiittle bit better - but still...the show must go on I guess.
The writing is so poetic and communicates to me clearly. I found myself swooning at some of the passages and then Rick says, so, and back to the interview. It kind of jolted me back. Rick, if you could give a brief pause and acknowledge the beauty, that would help the experience of the interview for me. I love all of Harry's interviews.
In a number of interviews, you bring up the example of the late Suzanne Seagall who experienced the loss of her sense of self as she writes about it in "Collision of the Infinite." And in at least one of those posts, I'd stated that I had the same experience on two occasions, once while a sophomore in college at almost 20 years of age, the other years later while attending a ten day retreat. The former was absolute Hell, a very unsettling, jarring experience I could only wish on my worst enemies, while the second was though unsettling, at times being on like an ultimate drug high. These antipodes are detailed quite well in the book, "Center of the Cyclone" by the late neuroscientist, John Lilly. But I wouldn't exactly call them "Awakenings" as you do when referring to Suzanne's experience. If anything they're so disorienting at the time that all one would be concerned with was regaining some semblance of sanity. On the other hand, if such a person were fortunate enough to find a knowledgeable mentor(as I believe Suzanne was years later while in that state) then he/she would come to see that this was the revelation of the self or sense of self being essentially an empty construct. And it's debatable whether that would also result in a fairly grounded, permanent Realized state as I can attest to(i.e., it could easily result in suicide if the sense of feeling bleak seemed too overwhelming to handle).
I think we could call it an awakening, with the caveat that experiential awakening without understanding to substantiate it can be terrifying, and does not constitute enlightenment, which would be a balanced development of experience and understanding. It’s a matter of how we want to define our terms.
However, no matter how much understanding such a person receives(even by the most insightful sage imaginable), the fact of its being so unsettling is the real issue. I was fortunate to have over many months to have reacquired another sense of self if only to function 'normally' even if continuing with the illusion I was a separate being.
Thank you Rick for your inspired work and passion. Would you please check out Stefan Perneborg in Sweden? He also combines deep awakenings to the eternal still being beyond concepts and the multiverse of manifestation and ever spiraling manifestation. I sense he could contribute to these topics on Batgap. Warm regards.
Rick! How does he meditate? Id like to try it. I used to meditate in a hardcore sort of teeth grinding dogen style zazen, but I want to know what hes doing. Ive wondered this since the first interview with him.
rhubarbcheese, he learned the Transcendental Meditation technique, then subsequently learned its advanced techniques as well; periodically attended TM retreats thru the years. Eventually he became a TM teacher.
God just wants to have fu-un, oh, God just wants to have fun. That's all He really waaaaants, that's all He really waaaaaants. Oh, God just wants to have .... fun. Wants to have fun. Wants to have fun. God, He just wants to have ..... fun. QED.
Oddly, this is by far my most popular post. Not sure if that's a good thing though, but here it is, 5 likes. C. Lauper gets at least 3 though, so I am down to 2. I think one of them was mine... What if Truth is like a woman? Nietzsche said something like that. Can Rick interview Nietzsche, in some sort of trans-temporal way?
The best interview in two years or more, in my opinion. All these self-styled teachers make me sick. I have stopped watching most of them as they have little new to add, and very little of spiritual importance. Their greed is greater than their wisdom.. And their ignorance of pure spirituality is not far behind.
At 1:55 he loses me, speaking of experiencing the absolute and infinity, then making an incongruous assertion, that "everything is eternal." No, actually at best the components may be, but not the composites, e.g., the moon was formed and will pass away into its elements, but the moon will not exist eternally. "If everything's eternal, the moon's always been there..."?? Who said everything is eternal? That's utter nonsense. Rick tries to say that the sun will one day burn out, all things must pass, and Harri interrupts him to say "you can't have eternity if that happens." Yeah, you can. Is he denying all change? He seems to be saying just that. "Maybe I don't get it either..." Yup. Does anyone on this forum get it? I find it off-putting that whenever he gets asked a question he can't answer, he makes it seem that he just too many light-years ahead of everybody, so he can't say. He did it in this case as well as the question about whether mankind evolves into angels or the like, asked earlier. A little swarmy for such a swami.
Actually, he does indicate after 1:57:14 that he is not speaking of a product lasting eternally through time. This is what you didn't pick up I guess. When he speaks of "sun" he is not speaking of your percept - which is obviously the product that changes. What he says must be something like the platonic original which flashes momentarily into our temporal reflections in perception, thus making up the perceived universe. He is saying that this perceived universe which science studies is not the reality. I guess the closest we can get to that through our language bound thinking is what philospher Robert Spaeman _(see my last video)_ alluded to with his recourse tothe futurum exactum: whatever is true now will forever have been true. This sphere of truth is eternal. Even if the universe will end in heat death _(if those projections are true at all)_ then everything that was ever the case will still have been the case. In that sense whatever is the case even for a moment is eternally in the realm of having been the case ☺ Incidentally, this has an interesting parallel to Barry Long in his _"Origin Of Man And The Universe"_ where he concurs that the events of existence are like a gallery in the cosmic spiral and the "I Am" reads that gallery off on the inside while outside the gallery the mind ceases to be I AM, is infinite and not at the center of the surrounding gallery from there it is just all there in its totality. So it is the focusing and reading off by the I Am which creates the passing of time while the reality itself - the gallery - is eternal. I just report for what it's worth, with all skeptical distance to Barry Long, but the parallel is interesting and more than an act of copying.
Hi, Soteriologe; I guess we can see him as a closet Platonist then, not the most articulate one, but still. Methinks it would be good if he learned the terms and applied them here. To be fair, how can he be expected to explain what even Plato could not, so I have been naughty, I guess. He even parallels Plato in my C. Lauper post, in that the universe was created, in Plato's Symposium, because God overflowed and could not find it in Himself to deny Being to anything which could have it. East and West are not so far apart, eh? Plato of course had the problem of degrees of Being, or illusion, and Harri reflects that in his notion of layers of reality. What would happen if Harri read Plato? or vice versa?
jazzsnare Yeah well, Harri is an artist rather than a philosopher or intellectual. All the more interesting the parallels. I loved your C. Lauper post, BTW, and gave it a thumbs up. And true enough ancient East and West were not sooo different I guess. There is that one author who wrote on non-dualists among ancient greek philosophers, I forgot the title. Later Alexander went to India and met buddhists, you know Milindapanha, etc., then buddhas looking like Apollo arose, initially wearing mustaches, the whole bit, lol
Yeah, I threw in the Lauper lyrics as a way to register my difficulties accepting Harri's essential position that there is an abiding profound happiness that is invulnerable to the vicissitudes of life, in all its tragedy. He seems to be convinced that this is accessible beneath it all, but I wonder how he would take it if he were told he had a terminal illness which would result in substantial pain in all sorts of unmentionable ways. Is there nothing he can imagine happening that would disqualify his simple position, what he calls knowingness? When people use words like that it signals to me that they are happy enough not knowing, which might be the best after all, but it's just funny to create new word-endings, which really mean the opposite of what the word actually means. I'll end this by recalling a dedication or foreword which S. Weil wrote in one of her books, about just wanting to know what it means to know, would be enough for her.
jazzsnare I hear you, and that is most certainly the most persistent and also most characteristic question of an intelligent, appearance-identified "me". But to say _"there is an abiding profound happiness that is invulnerable to the vicissitudes of life, in all its tragedy"_ does not imply that this happiness could ever be the possession of that appearance-identified "me". In fact that latter claim would seem to be almost obviously impossible. Necessarily that happiness must be not located in a mind dominated by appearances, rather it would necessarily have to be intrinsic to the essential nature of that mind and available as the reason for equanimity only to the degree that the apperance identified mind can voluntarily dissolve into its own ground, that is function only insofar and as long as it is helpful. In other words, that happiness is not Harri's but persists despite of Harri. And he gets a share to the degree he lives in alignment. Weil's humility would give a more to commoners understandable testimony to that distinction. But what happens if that nexus of identification becomes downsized to such a degree that the view is more stably from the divine side so to speak than from the conventional side ? I guess that is when you begin to hear words of the kind that he speaks. Of course, it is very very dangerous if a lesser person uses such phrases, posers such as teal swan, or otherwise well meaning newbies who haven't tested themselves. But I would take the risk here and assume he actually knows what he is talking about. I remember the stories around the death of the previous Karmapa, also one story where an even more previous Karmapa was mocked by a rival sect and asked to offer his head _(he was expected not to be able to decline heartfelt wishes our of compassion)_ and he replied that he would be glad to give them his head, but that he is afraid about the fate of those who have asked him in the middle of his protectors ☺ I know that isn't quite on the point, but we both know that there truly are those who are beyond fear of pain of all kinds.
The understanding automatically comes with the experience, it is inherent in it, you don't need to then spend lots of time thinking about it or discussing it unless you want to perfect your ability to communicate it. I don't agree with Harry on that one.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm so glad you are talking openly about this now Harri, and that you continued to coax Harri into the public eye Rick. Watching Harri's first Batgap interview triggered an awakening in my heart and experiences that I now equates to a realisation described by some as god consciousness - a deep love and connection to the divine heart, an exceptional closeness and radiance. It's wonderful watching these later interviews and seeing what they inspire within my continued awakening. Thank you both so much for what you are offering - I for one am profiting immensely from your conversations :)
And Harri is absolutely lovable. I find it amazing how different Western "enlightenment" is from its Eastern counterpart. I would venture to say it's much purer and more humble, which I truly rejoice to see. You don't need to be all decked in jewelery and fine silks, with a garland of people making puja and bowing to your feet for blessings. We went a long way, the need to divinize people dies out, we're there now.
Rick, you're a great guy. I hate to see so much criticism of you, at least lately. It saddens me that people do not appreciate your work for what it's worth, regardless of their personal preference in relation to this or that interview. So, I thank you, on behalf of many others I'm sure, for your selfless and bountiful giving. It really IS appreciated.
Thanks. When you put yourself out there publicly, you attract all sorts. I'm used to it.
Kainos Anthropos
Well put. I join with you in shared gratitude to Rick and his gifts.
I have noticed that those who often talk about 'there is no one here' and 'all is empty' etc, seems to be the least tolerant and humble ones when it comes to respond to people who is researching the huge experience of being human. And as far as I can see, enlightenment without basic humility and respectful manners is not possible, no matter how non-existent these people may see these qualities.
I like how Harri tells that Being Awake does not have to have any flashy experiences that go with it. For me the Natural state is very ordinary suttle with a knowing of Well Being. If people are chasing flashy experiences they are going down the wrong road of understanding. i also hate the word enlightenment because that word seems to point to flashy states of being. Very special interview ...Thank you both
larz hillbot what's wrong with wanting flashy experiences... what's wrong with wanting more... ideas of heaven, spiritual travel and enlightenment are very flashy
If it weren't for flashy expereinces then most people wouldn't even have started down the path. Flashy expereinces represent the vastness of ourselves, people need them to snap out of the mundaneness of their current lives.
i disagree i think most start on the path when they hit a mid life crisis so to speak or looking for a meaning to life after every thing seems pointless on the hamster wheel of life.
love Harri's vibe!
Hey Rick! I am enjoying this conversation. Can you please interview Eckhart Tolle? I imagine you two could have a great conversation. Thank you for all your efforts, these interviews are helpful.
Would love to, but he doesn't do many interviews and has never responded to my requests.
Ahh ok, I understand. Thanks.
Thank you! :)
Very interesting. Many of these experiences of abiding silence are talked about in various traditions. I experience a sense of awakening which I interpret based on the Buddhist path as a form of absorption that has lingering effects on daily life. It's like a sign post on the road to enlightenment. There are many systems that attempt to give a roadmap to enlightenment. Not sure if it's awakened mind or mind that is on pointed and tranquil. Maybe it's the same?
I am not sure what Harri’s position is on the Ajata doctrine, but some people might like to look into it. There is a very good description on David Godman’s blog.
Ajata was Ramana Maharshi’s position, although he also taught other doctrines for those who were not able to accept the illogicality of Ajata:-
“There is no creation, no destruction, no bondage, no longing to be freed from bondage, no striving to be free [from bondage], nor anyone who has attained [freedom from bondage]. Know that this is the ultimate truth.” Translation from the Tamil endering by Sri Ramana Maharshi.
“one who is poperly established in the Atman knows that nothing happens in this world and that nothing is ever destroyed. Something is felt to be happening only when we are in the state of pramata, the knower. This state is not one’s real nature. For the jnani who has given up the idea of the knower, nothing ever happens.” (The Power of the Presence part one, p. 238)
“This is an interesting comment that explains, to some extent, the paradox of ajata. Something can only happen or exist if there is a knower or an experiencer of it. If there is no seer of the world, the world itself is not there, and never was.
It is hard to defend any of this logically or rationally, so don’t expect me to do so in the ‘responses’ section. All I can say is that this is what certain masters have said on this topic, and I can add that they have all said this on the basis oftheir own direct experience of the Self.””“A few weeks ago someone asked me (Papaji), ‘You say that the world is a projection of the mind, and that you yourself have no mind. If you have no mind, how does the world still appear to you?’
I answered, ‘I don’t see any world, so I don’t need any explanation for its appearance. If I ever see a world in front of me, then I will have to think up an explanation for it.’”
1:32:44 "Everything in life pushes you to the awakened state."
I think it would be very interesting for both of you to explore the primordial principles of universal Intelligence, as described in the real science of Astrology. For example the universal principle of centeredness which as a symbol appears as a circle with a dot in the middle. It represents the sun but also centeredness in all of existence. The I Am for example, the solar plexus or any other center in the expression of life, existence, consciousness. They are abstract and tangible at the same time.
*HE'S BACK !*
Replies:
+ Jamie Orangepeel: Well, I've never completely departed, just stopped rating. But there are so many other pressing issues that batgap old news really has a back seat unless something eminent is being delivered apart from _"I am selling a new book on the sensitivtiy increase in beta males becoming aware of their beta status by meditating, and so they get sick if they masturbate and also if they don't"_ - yawn. Hence I listen only to the real goodies. You know, we're heading for WW III, and these baby boomers are still focusing on and selling their pseudo liberal banker propaganda, and some other chicks are focusing on combining sex appeal with garbled new age nonsense to sell themselves and their souls. I am getting the sense that my years of rating has straightened that out a bit and Rick is since vetting just a liiiittle bit better - but still...the show must go on I guess.
lol, I guess you are too.
Me too - if the youtube gods let my comment through, as they appear determined to block them ! Must be vengeful gods is all I can think !
The writing is so poetic and communicates to me clearly. I found myself swooning at some of the passages and then Rick says, so, and back to the interview. It kind of jolted me back. Rick, if you could give a brief pause and acknowledge the beauty, that would help the experience of the interview for me. I love all of Harry's interviews.
@Tammy Allen: you ain't seen nothing yet until Rick finally starts using the phrase _"And now for something completely different"_, lol.
In a number of interviews, you bring up the example of the late Suzanne Seagall who experienced the loss of her sense of self as she writes about it in "Collision of the Infinite." And in at least one of those posts, I'd stated that I had the same experience on two occasions, once while a sophomore in college at almost 20 years of age, the other years later while attending a ten day retreat. The former was absolute Hell, a very unsettling, jarring experience I could only wish on my worst enemies, while the second was though unsettling, at times being on like an ultimate drug high. These antipodes are detailed quite well in the book, "Center of the Cyclone" by the late neuroscientist, John Lilly. But I wouldn't exactly call them "Awakenings" as you do when referring to Suzanne's experience. If anything they're so disorienting at the time that all one would be concerned with was regaining some semblance of sanity. On the other hand, if such a person were fortunate enough to find a knowledgeable mentor(as I believe Suzanne was years later while in that state) then he/she would come to see that this was the revelation of the self or sense of self being essentially an empty construct. And it's debatable whether that would also result in a fairly grounded, permanent Realized state as I can attest to(i.e., it could easily result in suicide if the sense of feeling bleak seemed too overwhelming to handle).
I think we could call it an awakening, with the caveat that experiential awakening without understanding to substantiate it can be terrifying, and does not constitute enlightenment, which would be a balanced development of experience and understanding. It’s a matter of how we want to define our terms.
However, no matter how much understanding such a person receives(even by the most insightful sage imaginable), the fact of its being so unsettling is the real issue. I was fortunate to have over many months to have reacquired another sense of self if only to function 'normally' even if continuing with the illusion I was a separate being.
Thank you Rick for your inspired work and passion.
Would you please check out Stefan Perneborg in Sweden? He also combines deep awakenings to the eternal still being beyond concepts and the multiverse of manifestation and ever spiraling manifestation. I sense he could contribute to these topics on Batgap.
Warm regards.
Hi Mikael. Email me at rick@batgap.com and I'll notify you when we start accepting new requests. There's a submission process. Thanks.
Rick! How does he meditate? Id like to try it. I used to meditate in a hardcore sort of teeth grinding dogen style zazen, but I want to know what hes doing. Ive wondered this since the first interview with him.
rhubarbcheese, he learned the Transcendental Meditation technique, then subsequently learned its advanced techniques as well; periodically attended TM retreats thru the years. Eventually he became a TM teacher.
Bernie Del Rosario
yeah I got a reply from rick earlier in some other post, hmm but you need to give them money to learn it and so on which sucks.
God just wants to have fu-un, oh, God just wants to have fun. That's all He really waaaaants, that's all He really waaaaaants. Oh, God just wants to have .... fun. Wants to have fun. Wants to have fun. God, He just wants to have ..... fun. QED.
Oddly, this is by far my most popular post. Not sure if that's a good thing though, but here it is, 5 likes. C. Lauper gets at least 3 though, so I am down to 2. I think one of them was mine...
What if Truth is like a woman? Nietzsche said something like that. Can Rick interview Nietzsche, in some sort of trans-temporal way?
1:09:20 Surely time to get Harri on again so he can talk about evolution of the gods? 🤞🤞
I find Naked Reality (Rali) really interesting he's a new spiritual teacher please could you interview him.
Alert well thank you 😊
The best interview in two years or more, in my opinion. All these self-styled teachers make me sick. I have stopped watching most of them as they have little new to add, and very little of spiritual importance. Their greed is greater than their wisdom.. And their ignorance of pure spirituality is not far behind.
18. Ok interesting, I've had that shimmering wondered what itwas
At 1:55 he loses me, speaking of experiencing the absolute and infinity, then making an incongruous assertion, that "everything is eternal." No, actually at best the components may be, but not the composites, e.g., the moon was formed and will pass away into its elements, but the moon will not exist eternally. "If everything's eternal, the moon's always been there..."?? Who said everything is eternal? That's utter nonsense. Rick tries to say that the sun will one day burn out, all things must pass, and Harri interrupts him to say "you can't have eternity if that happens." Yeah, you can. Is he denying all change? He seems to be saying just that. "Maybe I don't get it either..." Yup. Does anyone on this forum get it?
I find it off-putting that whenever he gets asked a question he can't answer, he makes it seem that he just too many light-years ahead of everybody, so he can't say. He did it in this case as well as the question about whether mankind evolves into angels or the like, asked earlier. A little swarmy for such a swami.
Actually, he does indicate after 1:57:14 that he is not speaking of a product lasting eternally through time. This is what you didn't pick up I guess. When he speaks of "sun" he is not speaking of your percept - which is obviously the product that changes. What he says must be something like the platonic original which flashes momentarily into our temporal reflections in perception, thus making up the perceived universe. He is saying that this perceived universe which science studies is not the reality.
I guess the closest we can get to that through our language bound thinking is what philospher Robert Spaeman _(see my last video)_ alluded to with his recourse tothe futurum exactum: whatever is true now will forever have been true. This sphere of truth is eternal. Even if the universe will end in heat death _(if those projections are true at all)_ then everything that was ever the case will still have been the case. In that sense whatever is the case even for a moment is eternally in the realm of having been the case ☺
Incidentally, this has an interesting parallel to Barry Long in his _"Origin Of Man And The Universe"_ where he concurs that the events of existence are like a gallery in the cosmic spiral and the "I Am" reads that gallery off on the inside while outside the gallery the mind ceases to be I AM, is infinite and not at the center of the surrounding gallery from there it is just all there in its totality. So it is the focusing and reading off by the I Am which creates the passing of time while the reality itself - the gallery - is eternal.
I just report for what it's worth, with all skeptical distance to Barry Long, but the parallel is interesting and more than an act of copying.
Hi, Soteriologe; I guess we can see him as a closet Platonist then, not the most articulate one, but still. Methinks it would be good if he learned the terms and applied them here. To be fair, how can he be expected to explain what even Plato could not, so I have been naughty, I guess. He even parallels Plato in my C. Lauper post, in that the universe was created, in Plato's Symposium, because God overflowed and could not find it in Himself to deny Being to anything which could have it. East and West are not so far apart, eh? Plato of course had the problem of degrees of Being, or illusion, and Harri reflects that in his notion of layers of reality. What would happen if Harri read Plato? or vice versa?
jazzsnare
Yeah well, Harri is an artist rather than a philosopher or intellectual. All the more interesting the parallels. I loved your C. Lauper post, BTW, and gave it a thumbs up. And true enough ancient East and West were not sooo different I guess. There is that one author who wrote on non-dualists among ancient greek philosophers, I forgot the title. Later Alexander went to India and met buddhists, you know Milindapanha, etc., then buddhas looking like Apollo arose, initially wearing mustaches, the whole bit, lol
Yeah, I threw in the Lauper lyrics as a way to register my difficulties accepting Harri's essential position that there is an abiding profound happiness that is invulnerable to the vicissitudes of life, in all its tragedy. He seems to be convinced that this is accessible beneath it all, but I wonder how he would take it if he were told he had a terminal illness which would result in substantial pain in all sorts of unmentionable ways. Is there nothing he can imagine happening that would disqualify his simple position, what he calls knowingness? When people use words like that it signals to me that they are happy enough not knowing, which might be the best after all, but it's just funny to create new word-endings, which really mean the opposite of what the word actually means. I'll end this by recalling a dedication or foreword which S. Weil wrote in one of her books, about just wanting to know what it means to know, would be enough for her.
jazzsnare
I hear you, and that is most certainly the most persistent and also most characteristic question of an intelligent, appearance-identified "me". But to say _"there is an abiding profound happiness that is invulnerable to the vicissitudes of life, in all its tragedy"_ does not imply that this happiness could ever be the possession of that appearance-identified "me". In fact that latter claim would seem to be almost obviously impossible. Necessarily that happiness must be not located in a mind dominated by appearances, rather it would necessarily have to be intrinsic to the essential nature of that mind and available as the reason for equanimity only to the degree that the apperance identified mind can voluntarily dissolve into its own ground, that is function only insofar and as long as it is helpful. In other words, that happiness is not Harri's but persists despite of Harri. And he gets a share to the degree he lives in alignment. Weil's humility would give a more to commoners understandable testimony to that distinction. But what happens if that nexus of identification becomes downsized to such a degree that the view is more stably from the divine side so to speak than from the conventional side ? I guess that is when you begin to hear words of the kind that he speaks. Of course, it is very very dangerous if a lesser person uses such phrases, posers such as teal swan, or otherwise well meaning newbies who haven't tested themselves. But I would take the risk here and assume he actually knows what he is talking about.
I remember the stories around the death of the previous Karmapa, also one story where an even more previous Karmapa was mocked by a rival sect and asked to offer his head _(he was expected not to be able to decline heartfelt wishes our of compassion)_ and he replied that he would be glad to give them his head, but that he is afraid about the fate of those who have asked him in the middle of his protectors ☺ I know that isn't quite on the point, but we both know that there truly are those who are beyond fear of pain of all kinds.
The understanding automatically comes with the experience, it is inherent in it, you don't need to then spend lots of time thinking about it or discussing it unless you want to perfect your ability to communicate it. I don't agree with Harry on that one.
I agree with you. It seems the ego doesn't die with enlightenment,indeed, if it is enlightenment at all.
why do you never ask about how they live day to day. Lifestyle as the true indicator of any enlightenment. Talk is cheap.
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
Another guy trying to knock his book out.