I live at Rhodes, and have been thinking about this idea for a while (since they announced the Bankstown line would be converted to a Metro). One small tunnel and a bunch of track converting and then you have a couple of North/South options. Great for interchanges, and for moving people at Olympic Park events. Feels to me like a great idea. Nice to see you put it in a video!! :)
It wouldn't be practical to connect the Olympic Park Line with the line to Bankstown, because of the layout of Lidcombe station. These lines arrive at the station on opposite sides, and while it is possible to run trains between them, it would require those trains to cross all 4 tracks of the main line, which would block other trains and limit frequency.
@railcar-explains it's not really about if they can cope, but more that any expansion will be explicitly designed to avoid additional at grade crossings as a priority. A big aspect of most network planning and rail expansion the past decade has been based on removing grade crossings. With an increasing expectation of higher frequency, metro like service on Australia's suburban rail networks, there simply isn't any scenario where network planners are going to accept additional at grade crossings in the schedule, regardless of if the current set up can handle it. It's the direct opposite of what most changes to the network are trying to achieve. When you are reaching headways of under 5 mins, the time it takes for 1 train to cross the path of another could mean multiple tph lost to allow that movement, especially if it involves moving accross multiple lines. Basically, there is no scenario where this set up allows trains to run from Rhodes to Bankstown accross at grade junctions. You would have to set up the branching lines at Rhodes in such a way that they do not cross the through tracks, and you'd need a tunnel/flyover for Lidcombe
Better to send it down to Kogarah. Epping all to north Strathfield, new u/g platforms at Strathfield (under the plaza), Enfield, Croydon Park, Campsie, Clempton Park, Kingsgrove, Bexley, Kogarah. Can even extend it to Miranda via Sylvania waters. That way we have a north south line. Epping and below can change at north Strathfield or Strathfield for city services, and provides a second link to the congested Eastern suburbs line This will involve a metro conversion of epping to north Strathfield and and new metro platforms at Strathfield and beyond
I'm far from an expert on Sydney's transport network, but this seems like a sensible plan! The only suggestion I'd make is instead of having a flat junction to join the existing line at Rhodes, I'd try to split the existing tracks so that the new line emerges between them (similarly to how the metro emerges from its tunnel between the heavy rail tracks at Chatswood). I don't think this would add much cost, as you're still building a tunnel portal either way, but it could avoid some nasty conflicting moves to make timetabling easier and create a more reliable service!
Great idea! If they have money left over (ha ha!), they could then extend the line south from Bankstown to Hurstville, creating a direct line from Hornsby to Hurstville interchanging with Epping, Olympic Park and Bankstown.
The real government plan is for a metro line starting at kogarah going to kingsford, campsie, strathfield, Olympic park, Rhodes, Top Ryde and Macquarie park.
The idea may have some credit however this would effectively decommission Platform 0 (sprint platform) at Lidcome and a new underground station would need to be built at Lidcome to make it work. Would there be the demand for such a service? Maybe, it would help with connections between northern and south/west to Sydney Olympic park, meaning changing at Strathfield or Lidcome not needed. Once Metro West is open you could channel west travellers onto the Metro at Westmead.
Sorry for the long post, there are a couple of alternate options depending on what your overall goal with this is. If your intention is to just connect the West and south west with the north and Olympic Park doesn't need to be on the route there is already a link in place (sort of), that being the freight line at strathfield/north strathfield junction. It is already electrified but would need to be duplicated at the junction itself however there appears to be space in the rail corridor to do so. Crossovers could be installed after homebush station to divert trains off the main onto the current freight line alignement or if space constraints don't allow that, one set either side of homebush station. This alleviates the crossover issue for down direction trains towards the west Southwest at lidcombe as they no longer need to cross all 4 of the main and suburban lines right at lidcombe, it also allows the use of the crossovers next to flemington maintenance center as well. The use of both those sets of crossovers should remove any need for expensive and complex flyovers or tunnels at lidcombe itself. If you're dead set on having Olympic Park in this new link as well as the tunnel and don't mind not having lidcombe, berala regents park and the Bankstown stub line directly accessible from this new link route. Send trains from Sefton Park junction on the existing freight line through chullora coming up below/behind flemington maintenance center. And then on into Olympic Park. It would need some electrification as it's only partly electrified and duplication of the crossover from the freight line to the Olympic Park line. Both these are purely theoretical and just based on as much as possible what's already there and looks like it can be made to work with minimal infrastructure work and cost, of course this doesn't take into account capacity limits on any of the existing lines mentioned, that's a separate discussion for another time.
A tunnel is too expensive. but track duplication is something they'd consider. this service might be consider a hourly shuttle if they were to use the freight only curve of track west of Strathfield and use the olympic loop as is. The challenge is that the service interferes with the clearways project needing to cross across the main like at Lidcombe to reach the the bankstown branch.... however there is already a fright only underpass the main line at Flemington towards Chullora. I don't know if that bit of track is still electrified, there seems to be catenary in satellite imagery. The key important fact is that there is already a physical track to take trains from the olympic park loop towards enfield without interfering with the main line. after swinging down past Rockwood cemetery, train services can continue westward to liverpool.
Id actually continue this line to one of the Macquarie stations and then further interchange at Gordon and onto St.Ives. And on the other end from Bankstown to Kogarah. All mostly tunneled other than the sections you are using. Then it becomes a north-south loop line. But cheaper than the Future Rail proposals which all seem to go via Parramatta.
Not necessarily wedded to this exact proposal but I think the approach is great. We need more north-south criss tiwn links and we need to make maximum use of existing historic infrastructure supplemented with short relatively cheap tunnels, flyovers etc to fill missing links and provide new routes. Bankstown to Parramatta via Auburn, Flemington to Belmore corridor etc etc.
I had an idea for a metro line stating at reversby, going to Bankstown (interchange with metro southwest), than Lidcombe and olympic park (would be rebuilt underground and T7 line would remain but only be open on sports events, also interchange with metro west). Than after olympic park, it would go to an interchange at rhodes and then to Macquarie university (interchange with Metro Northwest), then it would end at Gordon. You would be able to go straight from the south to the north of the city very quickly with this metro line and you wont have to go via the Sydney CBD.
Can they make the Hornsby to Blacktown rail link as a metro, then covert it to metro line on the existing western line from Blacktown to mount druitt on middle platforms (platform 2 and 3) and then continually via Aerotropolis to Glenfield as the existing of the outer orbital line?
I like the suggestion, but I would say no to a train line, I think this could be a branch of sydney metro west branching off from olympic park and extending to epping where it cam meet up with the M1, so they can change for central coast and newcastke services, or go to hornsby for an xpt service.
Think about this every time I go past. Would be great for people from the Central Coast and Newcastle attending events in the Olympic precinct. Having Olympic Park at the end of a short stub was a hugely short-shorted idea only surpassed by stopping the metro at Tallawong, 3km from the T1 at Schofields
As a resident of the area, I must say it wouldn’t work. Linking it to Macarthur could work out better as it would provide a good connection for the SHL. However I don’t think you could have SHL trains running from Goulburn to Hornsby as if you want the line underground it’s not possible.
G'day mate, thanks for your proposal. Could you kindly share your thoughts on your reconfiguration of the Lidcombe Junction and your trackplan between Berala - Lidcombe? Would your proposal include maintaining Sydney Trains' ability to have the Inner West Line (Liverpool to City via Regents Park, Bankstown to City via Regents Park) and Bankstown to Parramatta (via Berala-Auburn) services? New north-south rail links are great for Sydney (and also gives Birrong and Yagoona some new purpose other than on a shuttle line which Transport for NSW deems are less than ideal), but removing connections to City/Inner West would not be well received by commuters in the West of Bankstown.
the real problem with this is no consideration to Lidcombe. How is it possible for the T3 tracks to connect to the T7 ones? T3 uses platform 5, T7 uses platform 0. if this was fixed I'd be more inclined to agree
This could be part of a bigger network of frequent light metro a bit like London's docklands railway based on existing lines in the west supplemented by cheapish connections and extensions providing crosstown and feeder connections. Bankstown-Parramatta would ge a priority.
Fr, I have contemplated on building a metro from hurstville to parramatta/ lidcombe/ strathfield but those would be way too expensive. This option seems much more cheaper and viable to general public and government.
This won’t work. -there’s no way you can run trains across the main line at lidcombe, you’d need a very expensive flyunder. -there’s no more capacity of the Main North, so everything would have to terminate at a new platform at Rhodes. -it wouldn’t actually be that beneficial to anyone.
I live at Rhodes, and have been thinking about this idea for a while (since they announced the Bankstown line would be converted to a Metro). One small tunnel and a bunch of track converting and then you have a couple of North/South options. Great for interchanges, and for moving people at Olympic Park events. Feels to me like a great idea. Nice to see you put it in a video!! :)
It wouldn't be practical to connect the Olympic Park Line with the line to Bankstown, because of the layout of Lidcombe station. These lines arrive at the station on opposite sides, and while it is possible to run trains between them, it would require those trains to cross all 4 tracks of the main line, which would block other trains and limit frequency.
It sounds like we're going to need another tunnel at Lidcombe. Let's make it happen guys!
Never heard of tunnels or flyovers?
The exiting crossovers could cope, but I do concede that a flyover (or tunnel) would probably be necessary.
But doesn’t the Olympic Park train just go to Lidcombe and that’s it
@railcar-explains it's not really about if they can cope, but more that any expansion will be explicitly designed to avoid additional at grade crossings as a priority.
A big aspect of most network planning and rail expansion the past decade has been based on removing grade crossings. With an increasing expectation of higher frequency, metro like service on Australia's suburban rail networks, there simply isn't any scenario where network planners are going to accept additional at grade crossings in the schedule, regardless of if the current set up can handle it. It's the direct opposite of what most changes to the network are trying to achieve.
When you are reaching headways of under 5 mins, the time it takes for 1 train to cross the path of another could mean multiple tph lost to allow that movement, especially if it involves moving accross multiple lines.
Basically, there is no scenario where this set up allows trains to run from Rhodes to Bankstown accross at grade junctions. You would have to set up the branching lines at Rhodes in such a way that they do not cross the through tracks, and you'd need a tunnel/flyover for Lidcombe
Better to send it down to Kogarah. Epping all to north Strathfield, new u/g platforms at Strathfield (under the plaza), Enfield, Croydon Park, Campsie, Clempton Park, Kingsgrove, Bexley, Kogarah. Can even extend it to Miranda via Sylvania waters.
That way we have a north south line.
Epping and below can change at north Strathfield or Strathfield for city services, and provides a second link to the congested Eastern suburbs line
This will involve a metro conversion of epping to north Strathfield and and new metro platforms at Strathfield and beyond
Agree. We need north-south lines and Hornsby-Strathfield is half of one ready made.
I'm far from an expert on Sydney's transport network, but this seems like a sensible plan!
The only suggestion I'd make is instead of having a flat junction to join the existing line at Rhodes, I'd try to split the existing tracks so that the new line emerges between them (similarly to how the metro emerges from its tunnel between the heavy rail tracks at Chatswood). I don't think this would add much cost, as you're still building a tunnel portal either way, but it could avoid some nasty conflicting moves to make timetabling easier and create a more reliable service!
Better still connecting Epping to Parramatta is a much better offer. And then Parramatta -> Bankstown to Kogarah or Hurstville, creating a grid.
Great idea!
If they have money left over (ha ha!), they could then extend the line south from Bankstown to Hurstville, creating a direct line from Hornsby to Hurstville interchanging with Epping, Olympic Park and Bankstown.
The real government plan is for a metro line starting at kogarah going to kingsford, campsie, strathfield, Olympic park, Rhodes, Top Ryde and Macquarie park.
The idea may have some credit however this would effectively decommission Platform 0 (sprint platform) at Lidcome and a new underground station would need to be built at Lidcome to make it work.
Would there be the demand for such a service? Maybe, it would help with connections between northern and south/west to Sydney Olympic park, meaning changing at Strathfield or Lidcome not needed.
Once Metro West is open you could channel west travellers onto the Metro at Westmead.
Sorry for the long post, there are a couple of alternate options depending on what your overall goal with this is.
If your intention is to just connect the West and south west with the north and Olympic Park doesn't need to be on the route there is already a link in place (sort of), that being the freight line at strathfield/north strathfield junction. It is already electrified but would need to be duplicated at the junction itself however there appears to be space in the rail corridor to do so. Crossovers could be installed after homebush station to divert trains off the main onto the current freight line alignement or if space constraints don't allow that, one set either side of homebush station. This alleviates the crossover issue for down direction trains towards the west Southwest at lidcombe as they no longer need to cross all 4 of the main and suburban lines right at lidcombe, it also allows the use of the crossovers next to flemington maintenance center as well. The use of both those sets of crossovers should remove any need for expensive and complex flyovers or tunnels at lidcombe itself.
If you're dead set on having Olympic Park in this new link as well as the tunnel and don't mind not having lidcombe, berala regents park and the Bankstown stub line directly accessible from this new link route. Send trains from Sefton Park junction on the existing freight line through chullora coming up below/behind flemington maintenance center. And then on into Olympic Park. It would need some electrification as it's only partly electrified and duplication of the crossover from the freight line to the Olympic Park line.
Both these are purely theoretical and just based on as much as possible what's already there and looks like it can be made to work with minimal infrastructure work and cost, of course this doesn't take into account capacity limits on any of the existing lines mentioned, that's a separate discussion for another time.
We want less interference between freight and passenger in traffic in Sydney, not more
A tunnel is too expensive. but track duplication is something they'd consider. this service might be consider a hourly shuttle if they were to use the freight only curve of track west of Strathfield and use the olympic loop as is. The challenge is that the service interferes with the clearways project needing to cross across the main like at Lidcombe to reach the the bankstown branch.... however there is already a fright only underpass the main line at Flemington towards Chullora. I don't know if that bit of track is still electrified, there seems to be catenary in satellite imagery. The key important fact is that there is already a physical track to take trains from the olympic park loop towards enfield without interfering with the main line. after swinging down past Rockwood cemetery, train services can continue westward to liverpool.
This is sick!
Id actually continue this line to one of the Macquarie stations and then further interchange at Gordon and onto St.Ives.
And on the other end from Bankstown to Kogarah.
All mostly tunneled other than the sections you are using.
Then it becomes a north-south loop line.
But cheaper than the Future Rail proposals which all seem to go via Parramatta.
Not necessarily wedded to this exact proposal but I think the approach is great. We need more north-south criss tiwn links and we need to make maximum use of existing historic infrastructure supplemented with short relatively cheap tunnels, flyovers etc to fill missing links and provide new routes. Bankstown to Parramatta via Auburn, Flemington to Belmore corridor etc etc.
I had an idea for a metro line stating at reversby, going to Bankstown (interchange with metro southwest), than Lidcombe and olympic park (would be rebuilt underground and T7 line would remain but only be open on sports events, also interchange with metro west). Than after olympic park, it would go to an interchange at rhodes and then to Macquarie university (interchange with Metro Northwest), then it would end at Gordon. You would be able to go straight from the south to the north of the city very quickly with this metro line and you wont have to go via the Sydney CBD.
I would say this does have merit. Technically they are already linked via the freight line.
Can they make the Hornsby to Blacktown rail link as a metro, then covert it to metro line on the existing western line from Blacktown to mount druitt on middle platforms (platform 2 and 3) and then continually via Aerotropolis to Glenfield as the existing of the outer orbital line?
I like the suggestion, but I would say no to a train line, I think this could be a branch of sydney metro west branching off from olympic park and extending to epping where it cam meet up with the M1, so they can change for central coast and newcastke services, or go to hornsby for an xpt service.
Definitely no no to branching otherwise you will just have Sydney trains where one failure brings other services down.
YES!!!
Think about this every time I go past. Would be great for people from the Central Coast and Newcastle attending events in the Olympic precinct. Having Olympic Park at the end of a short stub was a hugely short-shorted idea only surpassed by stopping the metro at Tallawong, 3km from the T1 at Schofields
As a resident of the area, I must say it wouldn’t work. Linking it to Macarthur could work out better as it would provide a good connection for the SHL. However I don’t think you could have SHL trains running from Goulburn to Hornsby as if you want the line underground it’s not possible.
G'day mate, thanks for your proposal. Could you kindly share your thoughts on your reconfiguration of the Lidcombe Junction and your trackplan between Berala - Lidcombe?
Would your proposal include maintaining Sydney Trains' ability to have the Inner West Line (Liverpool to City via Regents Park, Bankstown to City via Regents Park) and Bankstown to Parramatta (via Berala-Auburn) services?
New north-south rail links are great for Sydney (and also gives Birrong and Yagoona some new purpose other than on a shuttle line which Transport for NSW deems are less than ideal), but removing connections to City/Inner West would not be well received by commuters in the West of Bankstown.
the real problem with this is no consideration to Lidcombe. How is it possible for the T3 tracks to connect to the T7 ones? T3 uses platform 5, T7 uses platform 0. if this was fixed I'd be more inclined to agree
This could be part of a bigger network of frequent light metro a bit like London's docklands railway based on existing lines in the west supplemented by cheapish connections and extensions providing crosstown and feeder connections. Bankstown-Parramatta would ge a priority.
GREAT VIDEO
YOU ARE THE NEXT BIG THING
from santi
that would be fantastic!
great idea, but unless its metro i dont think the government is willing to do it
That’s a good proposal mind if I recommend it to an MP ?
Fr, I have contemplated on building a metro from hurstville to parramatta/ lidcombe/ strathfield but those would be way too expensive. This option seems much more cheaper and viable to general public and government.
Sure! Don’t see why not.
@@railcar-explainsit should be a metro
They probably built it as a light rail
This won’t work.
-there’s no way you can run trains across the main line at lidcombe, you’d need a very expensive flyunder.
-there’s no more capacity of the Main North, so everything would have to terminate at a new platform at Rhodes.
-it wouldn’t actually be that beneficial to anyone.
Rhodes platform 3 isn’t used a lot.
Pretty obvious