I have had the JD Tonneau GMT on my radar for a while. You can pick those up for not that much money, but I could never find out too much about the movement, so this video has been highly illuminating. Thanks Bill.
Hi Graham, I like that Jaquet Droz Tonneau GMT. It's probably my favorite of the models with the Jaquet 736 (or LJP 736.x) of all of them. Let me know if you get it! Cheers, Bill
I just saw a new one for $2,700 ... but it's from Russia. There's some guy in Hong Kong who has one for sale but wants you to contact him. If you're interested, offer $2,500 and if he balks, tell him there's a brand new one available for $2,700 ... no need to mention it's from Russia...
TheTechAudiophile I have seen them for around £2.5k before negotiating, so that’s about $3k if you are in the US. It’s a cool watch, with a interesting movement. If you want to dip you toe into tonneau shaped watches for a pretty low entry cost, it definitely a great option.
Hi Bill, thank you for directing me to this video & as usual, very informative. It clearly shows how much you are enjoying the investigative work that comes with the joy of watch collecting. I’ve seen many videos by you and I can confidently say, you never let your audience down. Truly a pleasure to watch your work, cheers!
Who would have thought that there would be this level of 'skulduggery' within the watch industry! Once again, thanks for your, always, insightful videos Bill :)
Hey Bill, I must say that I am consistently amazed by your dogged persistence in this hobby. When does this go from Hobby to a way of life? Looks as if you have crossed the threshold!
What an awesome intrigue this is. Ill leave the reserch to those who would be better at it than i but i cant wait to find out the outcome of all this. I look forward to your next video bill. Stay safe and on time. With love from England
Hi Bill, did you receive many answers to your contest questions? Is it a good movement, btw, and what are the positive sides? What about negative ones? What's the power reserve on them? Thanks in advance!
Ulvi, I have two "guesses" ... one is an ETA 6498 ébauche and the other an ETA 7001. The 6498 would have to be the -2 version since it runs at 21,600 mph and the -1 at 18,000 mph. The 7001runs at 21,600 as well, like the 736. Take care, Bill
Hi my old friend, hope all is well. I wrote to you in Facebook messenger but I also noticed you left Horology Talk. As you may know I have the same watch (Dunhill, 18K, smalls seconds @8) and it stopped working (I was barely using it). It does not wind up. What could be the problem and most of all, do you have a good recommendation for authorized service center I can send it to? Thank you very much advance!
Hi Ulvi, Dunhill is now owned by the Richemont Group, and they have their own watchmaking facility, ValFleurier. If your Dunhill has a Jaquet 736 movement like mine, try taking it to any local watchmaker. Take care, Bill
I found out that in 1993 Maurice Lacroix made a very similar watch with a very similar movement, was called FHF 29 like the original caliber name, Fountainemelon FHF 29, registration date 08/07/1929 release date 12/15/1929. FHF 29, 53, 57, 58, 68, 77, 94, 98, 106, 111, 127, 149, 225 and 8244 seems to be the same movement. Girrard Perregaux used the FHF29 caliber in the late 30s- 40s for a grand date (Caliber renamed 94) also made with the brand MIMO (Caliber renamend 9 97). Also Rolex seems to use the same caliber FHF 29 but without the separate bridge for the escapement. In 1990, Gerd Lange was able to acquire 670 of these "new old stock" movements, enabling him to complete an edition of 650 of the Chronoswiss Rectangular Regulateur and HORA jumping Hours.
Wow Mr Blue! What a movement! While it does look somewhat like the Jaquet 736, I do not think they're related. The FHF 29 is a beauty with a 2.5Hz frequency ... the 736 is 3Hz. I believe that Pierre Jaquet took an ETA ébauche (best guess is an ETA 7001) and fitted it into a shaped base and plates. The '29 has that curving bridge winding across the center and the balance cock comes down from 3 o'clock like a finger bridge. The 736 has a 'batman' bridge in the lower corder around 7 o'clock. Ironically, my first 736 is in a Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece like the FHF 29. You're tempted me Mr. Blue!!! Take care, Bill
You probably already know about this but, searching for the 736, i found that ETERNA made 2 interesting shaped movements, 3501 and 3510. The second one has a double barrels and the SPHERODRIVE system that I did not have the time to study yet. Also BVLGARI have a very nice shaped movement made by PARMIGIANI in the limited edition of the RETTANGOLO (RT49PLD)
Hi Tony, do you mean the Maurice Lacroix MP7019? They're selling for between about $1,100 - $2,500 which looks like a bargain to me. Check this out: www.chrono24.com/search/index.htm?accessoryTypes=&dosearch=true&query=Maurice+Lacroix+MP7019+&searchexplain=1&sortorder=1&watchTypes= Cheers, Bill
Hey Sean, that's great! The best part is that in trying to unravel the mystery, I found out so much about watches and watch manufacture in addition to finding the roots of the Jaquet 736!
Aaman, I want them all! Yes, they are hard to find, but they're there. (Here's one for you, but don't broadcast it or everyone will try to get it: www.chrono24.com/mauricelacroix/masterpiece-rectangulaire-petite-seconde-bp--id5897580.htm ... Be wise...Bill
The scoundrels that make up the luxury watch business do make watch collection more interesting....more the hunt than paying for something that's made from god knows what or from where! (Maybe we could get Oliver interested ...) Cheers, Bill
Great video as always Bill and I hope your movement tinkering is going well! Can't wait to see something put together and potentially in that bronze case! I'll have a crack at this in my spare time over the next few weeks, so you have a preferred email address for me to send my findings through? I'm hoping I find too much to be easily conveyed in the comments here. Cheers
Bill from the eyes of an amateur (me) if one were to pose this question: is this a cheese, a formula one race car driver or a watch brand owned by you , i would fail every time. Anyways I am always learning about the hobby with you
Reza, Jaquet SA was an "assembler" company, as is La Joux-Perret (what Jaquet SA became when J. had to go to jail); so most of the movements they assembled for other watch companies were most likely round. That's why I find the 736 so interesting. Take care, Bill
Hi 9gello, I've been trying to get a Dunhill with a Jaquet 736 movement. One seller in France I contacted never responded, I imagine because the piece had sold already. What movement is in your Dunhill? Kindest regards, Bill
The La Joux-Perret 736.2 is updated from Jaquet 736, but I have no idea how. There's a 736.3 and an interesting discussion of taking one apart at this link; www.schild-eterna.de/diverseuhren9.htm . Maurice Lacroix calls it the ML126 but makes no mention of either Jaquet or La Joux-Perret ... still a mystery. Cheers, Bill
Hi Bill. I wonder if the .Xs just represent the different dial configurations and complications, Mine has the small second at 8 o'clock, but there are ones with a 6 o'clock small second or no small second hand at all. Then there are the versions with the added 24 hour dial and others with the power reserve indicator. Mix and match these, and you can end up with a lot of permutations. Is that how Jaquet-Droz got all the way to 9? It is quite a boutique movement really.
Some more info www.styleforum.net/threads/watch-experts-jlc-movement.140734/ www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/watches/jaquet/ forums.watchuseek.com/f67/dunhill-ltd-ed-facet-2001-2002-modified-jaquet-manual-movement-707093.html A watch similar to the steel Dunhill shown towards the end of the last link is on Ebaywww.ebay.com/itm/Dunhill-DU9009VM-Mens-Wristwatch-US/372188319582?epid=2150270546&hash=item56a8270f5e:g:mboAAOSwx0FbjoAf
Hi Eric, my Maurice Lacroix MP7019 is doing pretty well: Error: +2.7 sec/day Beat error: 0.2ms Amplitude 266° The error and beat error rate excellent and the amplitude, is 4° off excellent but certainly acceptable. I don't think it's ever been serviced. Cheers, Bill
@@watchartsci My MP7009 has similar rate and slightly less beat error, amplitude around 315 degrees on a full wind. Doesn't appear to have ever been serviced owing to complete absence of screwdriver blemishes. Interesting stuff, the skullduggery around this movement makes it all the more fascinating and appealing to me.
Clandestine behavior, within the Swiss culture, I suppose is normal. The over production of watch movements, that compelled American watch manufactures to use Swiss surplus, is another down side to secrecy. Be very careful, proceeding down, any dark corridors. We want you to stick around, a lot longer.
Yikes! William! I hope that the AIA (Alps Intelligence Agency) doesn't come after me! Actually, I'd like to know who uses the LJP7500 (www.lajouxperret.com/nos-produits/mouvement-manufacture/ljp7500) in their watches, and I would love to buy one from them for my own projects! Kindest regards, Bill
WatchArtSci Hi bill, just ignore this kind of comment.. They don’t even know what they’re talking about.. I’m with u 10000% in this video. If you open up their secretive behaviors, more people will respect you. I’ve been looking around for more informations on this topic as well. It’s a good thing that one of a watch youtuber could share the informations. Only a few websites have this kind of informations.
Hi Bill, so would I! Not sure what their minimum order is nor their policy on selling to hobbyists. Vaucher has a minimum order of 25 and the VMF 5401 (which I would like) is 1,390 CHF, which would be around a $35,000 minimum investment. I imagine that the calibre LJP7500-4 is a re-worked existing caliber from the ETA Valjoux 7750 (or Sellita SW500-perhaps using a Sellita ébauch). Cheers, Bill
I have had the JD Tonneau GMT on my radar for a while. You can pick those up for not that much money, but I could never find out too much about the movement, so this video has been highly illuminating. Thanks Bill.
Hi Graham, I like that Jaquet Droz Tonneau GMT. It's probably my favorite of the models with the Jaquet 736 (or LJP 736.x) of all of them. Let me know if you get it! Cheers, Bill
Graham Morgan How much have you seen them for?
I just saw a new one for $2,700 ... but it's from Russia. There's some guy in Hong Kong who has one for sale but wants you to contact him. If you're interested, offer $2,500 and if he balks, tell him there's a brand new one available for $2,700 ... no need to mention it's from Russia...
TheTechAudiophile I have seen them for around £2.5k before negotiating, so that’s about $3k if you are in the US. It’s a cool watch, with a interesting movement. If you want to dip you toe into tonneau shaped watches for a pretty low entry cost, it definitely a great option.
WatchArtSci Could you please make a video on De Grisogono? I like their watches but have no idea about the movement etc.
Hi Bill, thank you for directing me to this video & as usual, very informative. It clearly shows how much you are enjoying the investigative work that comes with the joy of watch collecting. I’ve seen many videos by you and I can confidently say, you never let your audience down. Truly a pleasure to watch your work, cheers!
Thanks Marc, and most important to remember is that our hobby is about having fun! Cheers, Bill
Ohhh that RGM 121 is a sweet piece.
Very interesting video Bill, good detective work.
And good luck to the contestants!
Michael, I hope you join me, Inspector Jacques Clouseau, in getting to the bottom of this! Cheers, Bill
Who would have thought that there would be this level of 'skulduggery' within the watch industry! Once again, thanks for your, always, insightful videos Bill :)
I guess Kenneth with the amount of money involved in luxury watches, these events may be more common than we will ever know! Cheers, Bill
Hey Bill, I must say that I am consistently amazed by your dogged persistence in this hobby. When does this go from Hobby to a way of life? Looks as if you have crossed the threshold!
Robert, it a matter of having fun...if there were fewer mysteries, it would not be as much fun! Cheers, Bill
What an awesome intrigue this is. Ill leave the reserch to those who would be better at it than i but i cant wait to find out the outcome of all this. I look forward to your next video bill. Stay safe and on time. With love from England
Hey Nick, I need all the help I can get. Since you're from England, you can form the 'Baker Street Irregulars'! Cheers, Bill
Hi Bill, did you receive many answers to your contest questions? Is it a good movement, btw, and what are the positive sides? What about negative ones? What's the power reserve on them? Thanks in advance!
Ulvi, I have two "guesses" ... one is an ETA 6498 ébauche and the other an ETA 7001. The 6498 would have to be the -2 version since it runs at 21,600 mph and the -1 at 18,000 mph. The 7001runs at 21,600 as well, like the 736. Take care, Bill
Good video. I have seen La Joux-Perret chronograph modules used in other brands of watches.
Hi Bill, which chronographs use LJP modules? Do you happen to know of watches using the LJP7500? The game is a-foot! Cheers, Bill
Fantastico el vídeo como siempre!!!! Likeeeee 👍👍👍👍🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️
Hey Jaime! Thanks man! ¿Qué tipo de relojes coleccionas? Cheers, Bill
Wow impressed with the research you did!
Thanks Leigh! As watch collectors we have to have something to do when we're not buying watches! Cheers, Bill
Morning Bill,looking foreword to your video..
Hi my old friend, hope all is well. I wrote to you in Facebook messenger but I also noticed you left Horology Talk. As you may know I have the same watch (Dunhill, 18K, smalls seconds @8) and it stopped working (I was barely using it). It does not wind up. What could be the problem and most of all, do you have a good recommendation for authorized service center I can send it to? Thank you very much advance!
Hi Ulvi, Dunhill is now owned by the Richemont Group, and they have their own watchmaking facility, ValFleurier. If your Dunhill has a Jaquet 736 movement like mine, try taking it to any local watchmaker. Take care, Bill
I found out that in 1993 Maurice Lacroix made a very similar watch with a very similar movement, was called FHF 29 like the original caliber name, Fountainemelon FHF 29, registration date 08/07/1929 release date 12/15/1929. FHF 29, 53, 57, 58, 68, 77, 94, 98, 106, 111, 127, 149, 225 and 8244 seems to be the same movement. Girrard Perregaux used the FHF29 caliber in the late 30s- 40s for a grand date (Caliber renamed 94) also made with the brand MIMO (Caliber renamend 9 97). Also Rolex seems to use the same caliber FHF 29 but without the separate bridge for the escapement. In 1990, Gerd Lange was able to acquire 670 of these "new old stock" movements, enabling him to complete an edition of 650 of the Chronoswiss Rectangular Regulateur and HORA jumping Hours.
Wow Mr Blue! What a movement! While it does look somewhat like the Jaquet 736, I do not think they're related. The FHF 29 is a beauty with a 2.5Hz frequency ... the 736 is 3Hz. I believe that Pierre Jaquet took an ETA ébauche (best guess is an ETA 7001) and fitted it into a shaped base and plates. The '29 has that curving bridge winding across the center and the balance cock comes down from 3 o'clock like a finger bridge. The 736 has a 'batman' bridge in the lower corder around 7 o'clock. Ironically, my first 736 is in a Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece like the FHF 29. You're tempted me Mr. Blue!!! Take care, Bill
@@watchartsci Yes, I got tricked at first, I thought it was the same movement but then i noticed the balance wheel in the opposite side.
@@mrbluecatone What's important is that you found a really interesting shaped movement!
You probably already know about this but, searching for the 736, i found that ETERNA made 2 interesting shaped movements, 3501 and 3510. The second one has a double barrels and the SPHERODRIVE system that I did not have the time to study yet. Also BVLGARI have a very nice shaped movement made by PARMIGIANI in the limited edition of the RETTANGOLO (RT49PLD)
Thank you-I knew of none of those Mr Blue! Take care, Bill
Bill, enlightening and entertaining, as always...appreciate the effort! How much would you think the RW MP7019 set one back in the present market?
Hi Tony, do you mean the Maurice Lacroix MP7019? They're selling for between about $1,100 - $2,500 which looks like a bargain to me. Check this out: www.chrono24.com/search/index.htm?accessoryTypes=&dosearch=true&query=Maurice+Lacroix+MP7019+&searchexplain=1&sortorder=1&watchTypes= Cheers, Bill
Sorry, my bad. Wasn't paying attention. Thanks! Sounds interesting, the price, that is.
No worries...
Great video,I will do some research and give the competition a go.Don’t expect to much though.
Hey Sean, that's great! The best part is that in trying to unravel the mystery, I found out so much about watches and watch manufacture in addition to finding the roots of the Jaquet 736!
These are very hard to find,apparently...
Which one would you recommend,Bill?
Aaman, I want them all! Yes, they are hard to find, but they're there. (Here's one for you, but don't broadcast it or everyone will try to get it: www.chrono24.com/mauricelacroix/masterpiece-rectangulaire-petite-seconde-bp--id5897580.htm ... Be wise...Bill
Wow,thank you,Bill - at that price is a real steal.
Very interesting video Bill. The story sounds like it came from a Oliver Stone movie.
The scoundrels that make up the luxury watch business do make watch collection more interesting....more the hunt than paying for something that's made from god knows what or from where! (Maybe we could get Oliver interested ...) Cheers, Bill
Great video as always Bill and I hope your movement tinkering is going well! Can't wait to see something put together and potentially in that bronze case!
I'll have a crack at this in my spare time over the next few weeks, so you have a preferred email address for me to send my findings through? I'm hoping I find too much to be easily conveyed in the comments here.
Cheers
Hey TR, thanks man! If you find out something, shoot me an email at williebegoode@att.net .... the game is afoot! Cheers, Bill
Bill from the eyes of an amateur (me) if one were to pose this question: is this a cheese, a formula one race car driver or a watch brand owned by you , i would fail every time. Anyways I am always learning about the hobby with you
Hey Steve! That is very funny and fun! Cheers, Bill
does Jaquet made a round movement for any of these watch makers?
Reza, Jaquet SA was an "assembler" company, as is La Joux-Perret (what Jaquet SA became when J. had to go to jail); so most of the movements they assembled for other watch companies were most likely round. That's why I find the 736 so interesting. Take care, Bill
I have the Dunhill. It's a nice chunk of 18 carat with an interesting movement.
Hi 9gello, I've been trying to get a Dunhill with a Jaquet 736 movement. One seller in France I contacted never responded, I imagine because the piece had sold already. What movement is in your Dunhill? Kindest regards, Bill
It's the 736.2. Just like the one in your video.
The La Joux-Perret 736.2 is updated from Jaquet 736, but I have no idea how. There's a 736.3 and an interesting discussion of taking one apart at this link; www.schild-eterna.de/diverseuhren9.htm . Maurice Lacroix calls it the ML126 but makes no mention of either Jaquet or La Joux-Perret ... still a mystery. Cheers, Bill
Hi Bill. I wonder if the .Xs just represent the different dial configurations and complications, Mine has the small second at 8 o'clock, but there are ones with a 6 o'clock small second or no small second hand at all. Then there are the versions with the added 24 hour dial and others with the power reserve indicator. Mix and match these, and you can end up with a lot of permutations. Is that how Jaquet-Droz got all the way to 9? It is quite a boutique movement really.
Some more info www.styleforum.net/threads/watch-experts-jlc-movement.140734/
www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/watches/jaquet/
forums.watchuseek.com/f67/dunhill-ltd-ed-facet-2001-2002-modified-jaquet-manual-movement-707093.html
A watch similar to the steel Dunhill shown towards the end of the last link is on Ebaywww.ebay.com/itm/Dunhill-DU9009VM-Mens-Wristwatch-US/372188319582?epid=2150270546&hash=item56a8270f5e:g:mboAAOSwx0FbjoAf
J'accuse Jaquet!
Perfect Clyde!!!! Il y a très peu de justice dans le secteur des montres! Cheers, Bill
The question is I suppose - is this movement any good?
Hi Eric, my Maurice Lacroix MP7019 is doing pretty well:
Error: +2.7 sec/day
Beat error: 0.2ms
Amplitude 266°
The error and beat error rate excellent and the amplitude, is 4° off excellent but certainly acceptable. I don't think it's ever been serviced.
Cheers, Bill
Thank you Sir.
@@watchartsci My MP7009 has similar rate and slightly less beat error, amplitude around 315 degrees on a full wind. Doesn't appear to have ever been serviced owing to complete absence of screwdriver blemishes. Interesting stuff, the skullduggery around this movement makes it all the more fascinating and appealing to me.
Clandestine behavior, within the Swiss culture, I suppose is normal. The over production of watch movements, that compelled American watch manufactures to use Swiss surplus, is another down side to secrecy. Be very careful, proceeding down, any dark corridors. We want you to stick around, a lot longer.
Yikes! William! I hope that the AIA (Alps Intelligence Agency) doesn't come after me! Actually, I'd like to know who uses the LJP7500 (www.lajouxperret.com/nos-produits/mouvement-manufacture/ljp7500) in their watches, and I would love to buy one from them for my own projects! Kindest regards, Bill
WatchArtSci Hi bill, just ignore this kind of comment.. They don’t even know what they’re talking about.. I’m with u 10000% in this video.
If you open up their secretive behaviors, more people will respect you. I’ve been looking around for more informations on this topic as well. It’s a good thing that one of a watch youtuber could share the informations. Only a few websites have this kind of informations.
Hi Your Viewer. No worries, the most interesting part of watch collection is finding out everything about a watch you can. Cheers, Bill
I would love to own LJP7500. How many would we have to buy?
Hi Bill, so would I! Not sure what their minimum order is nor their policy on selling to hobbyists. Vaucher has a minimum order of 25 and the VMF 5401 (which I would like) is 1,390 CHF, which would be around a $35,000 minimum investment. I imagine that the calibre LJP7500-4 is a re-worked existing caliber from the ETA Valjoux 7750 (or Sellita SW500-perhaps using a Sellita ébauch). Cheers, Bill