The SSPX saved me from mediocrity and heresy in the Novus Ordo sect. Without the TLM I could not be Catholic. Thank you to all faithful traditional Priests.
What divide us is that the protestants rejected the transsubstantiation ,so that the bread is NOT any more the body of our Saviour which annulates the very sinn of the mass. So the new mass is NO mass at all. And the concile Vatican II is in se HERETIC.
Ever since I decided to quit committing to the Novus Ordo, the TLM has blessed my life so much that I feel stronger in my faith and I can proudly say I’m Catholic. Much love for SSPX!
As long as my body can get to my SSPX CHAPEL, I don’t worry about such things. However, I do pray for the return of millions of lost sheep in our Faith.
Surely, all these series are being guided by the Holy Ghost. Thank you, SSPX, for your devotion to our Lord and the Holy Mass as it was celebrated all through the centuries! Archbishop Lefevre was a true defender of our faith and Catholic values and traditions. May our Lord send more young men to become priests in the Holy order of the SSPX.
After coming into the church at age 59, I discovered the TLM 3 years later and knew at once that I was home. Have moved halfway across USA to be able to assist at daily TLM. Abp. Lefebvre, pray for us!
I truly love this series. For so long I understood that "modernism" was a problem, but did not understand what Modernism was and why/how it was a problem. Thank you to the priests of the SSPX & to Abp Lefebvre who I suspect will be recognized as a Saint once Our Blessed LORD takes back His Holy Church.
Father Reuter's closing remark about the way in which the Traditional Latin Mass transforms and sanctifies our lives was so moving it made my eyes well up with tears.
Over forty years ago, to the humiliation of my family, I was a reluctant adult convert to Baptist, Calvinist, Bible Belt fundamentalism. Due to an act of purest grace, the fullness and the truth of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church finally sunk in early this year. I am converting. I am coming in. But it is not for some weak and derivative imitation of the low church Protestantism I knew. We can run circles around the imitators, because for us it was sincere, however inadequate and flawed. No. That has zero appeal. I am coming in, with obedience and gratitude, for the Deposit of Faith. The faith entrusted once for all to the saints.
It takes tremendous faith, understanding and courage to do what you are doing. Find yourself a TLM parish. I am a sixty year old cradle Catholic that stumbled upon Catholicism, TRUE Catholicism when I was 52.
Spent my first 10 years as a convert in the NO. Definitely does not teach the necessity of practicing virtue, but rather emphasizes the mercy of God (Divine Mercy) while giving much less attention to Divine Justice. My RCIA instructor told me it is very hard to commit a mortal sin. Also the disrespect to God in the liturgy communicates that God is someone not to fear but we can presume upon gaining heaven. Just as when a Captain in the Army displays disrespect of the Colonel, then his platoon will also be tempted to have a disrespect for the same authority.
Hundreds of Saints in England preferred torture, crushing, quartering, disembowling to giving up this Latin Mass for the putrid protestant mess which 500 years later was parodied by Rome. Sickening + Holy Martyrs pray for us +
It kind of makes you wonder what the heck were those people thinking; especially if their propositions are viewed within the hindsight of history as you presented it. Be well. Velox Versutus Vigilans
Hello Fr Rueter, so good to see you! Update Rebecca and David got to attend Easter Mass in Japan, Alleluia!. Their new duty Station will be Seattle in August. God Bless you. Sharon
To even get advice from Protestants regarding the Mass is an absolute insanity. What the heck??? My Catholic heart cries in pain as i listen to the way the Holy Mass was degraded. Horrible! The faithful have been conned for decades! Thank God this is being brough to light.
Thank you so much for this Series! What a Journey it has been for me to Discover the TLM. I have listened to Fr. Jenkins SSPV - What Catholics Believe show - and really appreciate his wisdom and adherence to Tradition. So grateful that Latin mass is now being offered in more parishes / at more time slots bc it is the Future. Frankly, the notion that one can be a "Devout Catholic" while practicing Novus Ordo...Real LIFE Evidence / Data shows the Contrary. It is an Experiment that failed. At that point there IS NO difference from a practicing Protestant, except (of course) some lip service to belief in the Eucharist.
Another great video in the series. One question that I haven't seen addressed: What about the "Veni Sanctificator"? "Come, O Sanctifier, Almighty and Eternal God, and bless this sacrifice prepared for the glory of Thy holy Name." That did not make it to the NOM and it certainly seems like an important prayer.
“The way and method in which the Catholic faith is expressed should never become an obstacle to dialogue with our brethren. It is, of course, essential that the doctrine should be clearly presented in its entirety. Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism, in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss and its genuine and certain meaning is clouded.” (Vatican II, On Ecumenism, n. 11)
My great grandmother, a woman born in Ireland in the early 20th century, who endured oppression of the faith at the hands of the British, upon hearing "We believe..." in the new Mass, loudly exclaimed "We believe!? I don't care what we believe, I believe!" She was nourished by the traditional mass for 60 years of her life. Seems a great injustice to lose it at this point. We fought so hard in Britain, people were martyred in a bloody and humiliating way, to protect this Mass. It fills my heart with deep sorrow when British Catholics heartily embraced the new Mass. What, ultimately, did the Tyburn martyrs die for if the reformed form proscribed by Cranmer is now acceptable?
And the TLM is a reverential, memorial commemoration of Christ' first Mass He gave at the Last Supper to His Apostles and of an unbloody commemoration of His bloody sacrifice on the cross. So yes, Catholic martyrs died for Christ and His truth as a lot of Catholics in the past have protected and died to keep the Holy TLM.
To clarify, the faithful are required to Commune at least once a year at Easter, but the Communion of the faithful isn't an essential of a particular Mass. Thanks Father.
Thank you so much for these teachings! ... It truly scares me...it sounds like the evil one had a hand in the distruction of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass! My family and I are TLM attendees since Covid..2 years this summer..I've been learning ever since. Jesus has send these Grace's to me and my family and I am So so Thankful to Our Jesus for this Great Gift!
I guess I'm Protestant. I'm not going to be scolded by my own shepherds and told that the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass is wrong because of reform. I abundantly live a life in Christ at both the TLM and Novus Ordo.
Clearly explained by the Father !! And it's quite amusing when Pope Benedict XVI using the term ordinary expression of lex orandi of Pope Paul VI's Roman Missal and then using the term extraordinary expression if Roman Missal of Pope St Pius V and Blessed John XXIII. ( Summorum Pontificum ) Well logically speaking...if you have the choice of extraordinary Missal and ordinary Missal, of course you will choose the extraordinary Missal ! i would !!!
If you think Mocking Pope Benedict gets you points towards getting to heaven, you're not Catholic. Pope Benedict who is actually a valid Pope is the only reason the SSPX has some restored facilities at all.
What I don't understand is... why? Why did those theologians were willing to water down the rite of the Mass and drain it from its sacred mystery, in order to please the Protestants? Just why?
I don't know, but it failed miserably. I am a former protestant and can tell you that 0 protestants would ever consider converting just because the catholic mass looks more like protestant Churches. If there are any, it is an extremely small percentage barely worth mentioning.
It’s because they themselves are non-believers. They wanted to strip Catholicism down to bare bones universalism. So that faith would not interfere with using the catholic structure as a modernist NGO. From the standpoint of the church hierarchy, they have been completely successful.
You'd have to take a look at the history of the creation of the new mass. Originally, the Liturgical movement, which was founded by Dom Gueranger started out as a good thing, which was designed to bring Catholics to a deeper understanding and appreciation of and for the Mass. After he died, the movement was hijacked by Dom Beauduin, who had protestant influences in his way of thinking, as well as a deep fascination for oriental culture, religions, etc. He was the one who started implementing experimental changes in the Mass, which were all very hush hush. He referred to them as his "naughty little retreats," and either he or one of his followers referred to them as "little orgies of Liturgical ecumenism." These experiments included standing during the Consecration, the Mass in vernacular languages, versus populum (Mass facing the people), Communion in the hand, etc., etc. There were other heterodox priests at the time, whose false theologies influenced the liturgical movement, as well as influences the theology of the new liturgy, such as Fr. Bouyer and his theology of the Mass as the assembly of the people of God, and Dom Casel, whose paschal mystery novel theology taught that the Mass was an objective memorial, making present the literal cavalry via the remembrance of the events of the priest as well as the entire assembly, rather than the Catholic understanding, which teaches that there is a memorial dimension to the Mass but during the Mass itself, Christ renews his intention of His Sacrifice at Calvary, while being Mystically immolated via the separate consecrations of the bread and wine, this creating an immolation under visible signs. Anyway, eventually the Liturgical movement gained some measure of influence by disguising its actions and intentions, which allowed Pius XII to give in to some concessions such as changing the Holy Week rituals, and allowing some vernacular use for pastoral reasons in Germany, and iirc, the lessening of the Eucharist fast from midnight to the time of reception down to merely 3 hours. Of he had known what they were really up to, he wouldn't have done any of that. Eventually, Dom Beauduin became really old and as is the case with all revolutions, his underlings took his revolution even further, making him even say that they were taking it too far, and at that exact same time, Father Bugnini (the author of sacrosanctum concillium, as well as an alleged - yet highly likely to be - freemason) got to take a look at the final product of the bastardized liturgy Beauduin and his cronies created. He liked what he saw but falsely promised to Dom Beauduin that he wouldn't bring any of it up to Rome (since at the time, he was heading there because Vatican II was close to convening). And well, as they say, the rest is history.
At the NO Mass it seems now the priest goal is to sit down in his chair most of the time while deacons and lay folk do the readings and homily - also the priest seems to not really want to be there, sad to say. Going to find our Sspx chapel which I know is within 15 mins drive from home . Also- the NO Mass seems to be this meal, assembly - yes that’s what they said last time ! It seemed so weird ! Meal - table - I noticed this last Sunday !
Tl;dr: The TLM became, whereas the NOM was made. Excellent episode, but I don't think that Father spent enough time on this key point. There were many rites throughout the years, as NOM proponents are apt to point out (loudly and often), but they neglect to consider how this argument undermines the very idea of the NOM. Most of the rites that existed were variants on one of the existing, passed-down liturgical traditions, be it Latin, Eastern, Coptic, etc. In the western Church, these other rites that they use to defend the NOM were in Latin, ad orientem, emphasized the sacrificial nature and the real presence, and most importantly grew organically out of the liturgical history of the Church. Pius V accepted other rites, but based on their organic development and use over the years, because he understood the nature of tradition (tradere, or passing down): any rite more than 200 years old at the time of Trent could continue to be used, while all novelty was to be thrown out. The NOM by contrast was invented ex nihilo by Monsignor Bugnini, and while the TLM and other ancient rites stand on a firm foundation of Church history and natural development over generations, the NOM rests solely on the shoulders of him and his group of liturgical "experimenters" from the 1960s. They took elements of previous rites, new ideas, and pieced them together like something out of a Mary Shelley novel, hiding behind those antiquarian elements like the position of the sacristy to claim some form of history for the rite when in fact it has none. If they truly wanted to return to an earlier liturgical form, I doubt any traditional Catholic would have objected to the point of resistance to a shift to one of those other ancient western rites which had never been suppressed as the new standard without banning any other ancient rite - including the TLM - for religious orders, as that would have been nothing other than what Pius V did at Trent, but that was too traditional for this combination antiquarian/experimental liturgical movement. We see today the fruits of their labors.
Thank you, really, thank you so much. But what about the part of Vatican II that reiterates that the Church is necessary for salvation? How then could the mass thence arising be “ecumenical?” Just a question, not trying to “own” anybody. God bless. :)
I have a friend who argues that when Eucharistic prayer I is used, the Novus Ordo is as theologically sufficient (as far as conveying the sacrificial character of the Mass) as the TLM. Could anyone help me out with a response to this argument?
I wouldn't suggest getting clarification here. All you will get is it's SSPX or no salvation or at least a long time in purgatory until you finally admit they are the only true Catholic Church. It's tragic but that's what this society believes. I have rosaries prayed with by a visionary from Medjugorje and a Charismatic Novus Ordo priest who has saved my life in countless ways. Guess I'm doomed.
'Ecumenism = Unity ~ Truth.' That is, false religion. TY Father, for your clarity and precision. The NO's verbosity is itself a sign of its falsehood. 'Make your 'yes' a yes; and your 'no' a no.' Amen. 'Geez, dad, they really dumbed it down.' My 16 year old son from backseat of the car, after our family's 1st Tridentine Mass.
There are no traditional masses in our community. Nor are there any in surrounding communities. Am I obliged to attend the Novis Ordo to fulfill my Sunday obligation?
Yes, but we prefer not not make use of the deacons for that purpose unless no priests are available (e.g. a parish of thousands, and there is only one priest to distribute).
Et introibo ad altare Dei, ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam. 🙏🛡️🗡️ Iota unum non praeteribit. (Mat V, 18) Miscuit in medio eius spiritum vertiginis. (Is XIX, 14) Moribus antiquis stat res romana virisque. (Ennio) Hic manebimus optime. (Furio Camilo)
There's at least 5 Churches and Chapels of the SSPX there in Ireland. 1). Belfast - St. Pious V Chapel 2). Athlone - Corpus Christi Church 3). Cork - Our Lady of the Rosary Church 4). Dublin - St. John's Church 5). Newry - Our Lady of Knock & St. Patrick Chapel. I hope you've already found one near you, but in case you haven't these are the Churches/Chapels of SSPX there. Hope one is near where you live. Found these Churches through Google search (of all places). God bless and God speed. ♥️💙🕊🙏
It’s before my time. But my understanding is that there were liberal parishes doing versions of the new mass well before it was enforced on the whole church.
Father stated that the priest who was the architect of the new Mass said everything that was a stumbling block was removed from the Mass? Gee I thought the priest in the LTM or in the Novus Ordo Mass consecrated the bread and wine into the real presence - which most protestants that I have talked to through the years have found to be the biggest stumbling block in our faith. By the way there is no Modern Catholic church but there is one Holy Roman Catholic Church around since St Peter and now Pope Francis
Well 70% of Catholics don’t believe in the real presence. So what you believe puts you in a very small Minority. What do you think that percentage was before the new mass?
The novus ordo can also be celebrated very holy and the vetus ordo can be celebrated very sloppy and bad ,it is a matter of faith and love for Jesus . Lefevbre was so wrong.He did only trust in himself not in God ,and his followers are the same. Jesus Christ is the name of our saviour and he lives in his church ,our saviours name is not Lefevbre.
Timothy 4:3 Giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2.. 3. Forbidding to marry, Mathew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The SSPX saved me from mediocrity and heresy in the Novus Ordo sect. Without the TLM I could not be Catholic. Thank you to all faithful traditional Priests.
What divide us is that the protestants rejected the transsubstantiation ,so that the bread is NOT any more the body of our Saviour which annulates the very sinn of the mass. So the new mass is NO mass at all. And the concile Vatican II is in se HERETIC.
Ever since I decided to quit committing to the Novus Ordo, the TLM has blessed my life so much that I feel stronger in my faith and I can proudly say I’m Catholic. Much love for SSPX!
Ditto! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Its like a totally different faith. NO feels icky
Same here!
I am sickened by knowing the full horror of the new mass. I was robbed for years and years.
As long as my body can get to my SSPX CHAPEL, I don’t worry about such things. However, I do pray for the return of millions of lost sheep in our Faith.
Surely, all these series are being guided by the Holy Ghost.
Thank you, SSPX, for your devotion to our Lord and the Holy Mass as it was celebrated all through the centuries!
Archbishop Lefevre was a true defender of our faith and Catholic values and traditions. May our Lord send more young men to become priests in the Holy order of the SSPX.
After coming into the church at age 59, I discovered the TLM 3 years later and knew at once that I was home. Have moved halfway across USA to be able to assist at daily TLM. Abp. Lefebvre, pray for us!
The things I love most about the Church are those things that are unapologetically Catholic. Give me that old-time religion!
I truly love this series. For so long I understood that "modernism" was a problem, but did not understand what Modernism was and why/how it was a problem. Thank you to the priests of the SSPX & to Abp Lefebvre who I suspect will be recognized as a Saint once Our Blessed LORD takes back His Holy Church.
He just has to be in Heaven. So a Saint indeed +
Father Reuter's closing remark about the way in which the Traditional Latin Mass transforms and sanctifies our lives was so moving it made my eyes well up with tears.
The truly Catholic Mass !
It is about The Lord.
It is NOT about the people!
Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum!
same here ...
So great this channel is on YT. So many Catholics are still asleep. God reward you.
Thank you. God bless the SSPX🙏🏻
Please pray for my salvation brothers and sisters! Thank you!
Over forty years ago, to the humiliation of my family, I was a reluctant adult convert to Baptist, Calvinist, Bible Belt fundamentalism. Due to an act of purest grace, the fullness and the truth of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church finally sunk in early this year. I am converting. I am coming in. But it is not for some weak and derivative imitation of the low church Protestantism I knew. We can run circles around the imitators, because for us it was sincere, however inadequate and flawed. No. That has zero appeal. I am coming in, with obedience and gratitude, for the Deposit of Faith. The faith entrusted once for all to the saints.
Welcome home. 🌹
It takes tremendous faith, understanding and courage to do what you are doing. Find yourself a TLM parish. I am a sixty year old cradle Catholic that stumbled upon Catholicism, TRUE Catholicism when I was 52.
Pray for the conversion of the Protestants to the one and holy apostolic Church. Amen.
Andrew, Fr. Ripperger says that there are signs of extraordinary grace flowing and a great Catholic revival is coming. That might cheer you up
Amen!❤️🙏🏻
When did he say that? Is it on video or podcast?
He also says smoking is good, strange from such an intelligent Priest
@@user-ht9fr6eh9u When did he say that?
@@user-ht9fr6eh9u smoking will have no effect on your eternal soul. Who cares if he smokes.
Well done, excellent series
Thank you again for an excellent program.
Spent my first 10 years as a convert in the NO. Definitely does not teach the necessity of practicing virtue, but rather emphasizes the mercy of God (Divine Mercy) while giving much less attention to Divine Justice. My RCIA instructor told me it is very hard to commit a mortal sin.
Also the disrespect to God in the liturgy communicates that God is someone not to fear but we can presume upon gaining heaven. Just as when a Captain in the Army displays disrespect of the Colonel, then his platoon will also be tempted to have a disrespect for the same authority.
Thank you Jesus! Praise you Jesus! Love you Jesus!
Wonderful.I hope this covers how latin was completely dropped when the new mass was introduced and how liturgical abuses began immediately.
Liturgical abuses are the deliberate choice of fallen human beings, even if they are supposed to be In Persona Christi. It's not the Rite.
Hundreds of Saints in England preferred torture, crushing, quartering, disembowling to giving up this Latin Mass for the putrid protestant mess which 500 years later was parodied by Rome. Sickening + Holy Martyrs pray for us +
So true!
It kind of makes you wonder what the heck were those people thinking; especially if their propositions are viewed within the hindsight of history as you presented it. Be well.
Velox Versutus Vigilans
Thank you Father. So very helpful
Praise God for your faithful love for the one truly Mass not the new mass.🥰💯❤🙏🙏
Excellent talk. Thank you both.
Excellent, thank you! This was timed nicely with Dr. Peter Kwasniewski's article published today on OnePeterFive.
Gotta read it!
Words and action. Exactly what the seminarians in the 1960- 1990 never learned
Hello Fr Rueter, so good to see you! Update Rebecca and David got to attend Easter Mass in Japan, Alleluia!. Their new duty Station will be Seattle in August. God Bless you. Sharon
To even get advice from Protestants regarding the Mass is an absolute insanity. What the heck??? My Catholic heart cries in pain as i listen to the way the Holy Mass was degraded. Horrible! The faithful have been conned for decades! Thank God this is being brough to light.
I was only a child when the Novus Ordo Mass was introduced, yet I recall how, even then, the new rite seemed outright silly to me.
Yes, and it is sad how much this NOM spread and now in many many places is the only option available
It’s difficult for those of us in rural areas without feasible access to the tlm. It’s really a huge cross.
Thank you.
Fr. Reuters has a sweet Ficmax gaming chair, I love it 😂
I bet he's playing medieval 2 total war, but only the Catholic factions
Thank you so much for this Series! What a Journey it has been for me to Discover the TLM. I have listened to Fr. Jenkins SSPV - What Catholics Believe show - and really appreciate his wisdom and adherence to Tradition. So grateful that Latin mass is now being offered in more parishes / at more time slots bc it is the Future. Frankly, the notion that one can be a "Devout Catholic" while practicing Novus Ordo...Real LIFE Evidence / Data shows the Contrary. It is an Experiment that failed. At that point there IS NO difference from a practicing Protestant, except (of course) some lip service to belief in the Eucharist.
Another great video in the series. One question that I haven't seen addressed: What about the "Veni Sanctificator"? "Come, O Sanctifier, Almighty and Eternal God, and bless this sacrifice prepared for the glory of Thy holy Name." That did not make it to the NOM and it certainly seems like an important prayer.
“The way and method in which the Catholic faith is expressed should never become an obstacle to dialogue with our brethren. It is, of course, essential that the doctrine should be clearly presented in its entirety. Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism, in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss and its genuine and certain meaning is clouded.” (Vatican II, On Ecumenism, n. 11)
My great grandmother, a woman born in Ireland in the early 20th century, who endured oppression of the faith at the hands of the British, upon hearing "We believe..." in the new Mass, loudly exclaimed "We believe!? I don't care what we believe, I believe!"
She was nourished by the traditional mass for 60 years of her life. Seems a great injustice to lose it at this point. We fought so hard in Britain, people were martyred in a bloody and humiliating way, to protect this Mass. It fills my heart with deep sorrow when British Catholics heartily embraced the new Mass. What, ultimately, did the Tyburn martyrs die for if the reformed form proscribed by Cranmer is now acceptable?
They died for Jesus Christ and His Truth!
And the TLM is a reverential, memorial commemoration of Christ' first Mass He gave at the Last Supper to His Apostles and of an unbloody commemoration of His bloody sacrifice on the cross.
So yes, Catholic martyrs died for Christ and His truth as a lot of Catholics in the past have protected and died to keep the Holy TLM.
To clarify, the faithful are required to Commune at least once a year at Easter, but the Communion of the faithful isn't an essential of a particular Mass.
Thanks Father.
Thank you so much for these teachings! ...
It truly scares me...it sounds like the evil one had a hand in the distruction of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!
My family and I are TLM attendees since Covid..2 years this summer..I've been learning ever since. Jesus has send these Grace's to me and my family and I am So so Thankful to Our Jesus for this Great Gift!
Outstanding interview!
One reason the Orthodox have a problem with the way the papacy is expressed. Such a shame to lose a beautiful liturgy. God bless
I guess I'm Protestant. I'm not going to be scolded by my own shepherds and told that the Holy Sacrifice of The Mass is wrong because of reform. I abundantly live a life in Christ at both the TLM and Novus Ordo.
Clearly explained by the Father !!
And it's quite amusing when Pope Benedict XVI using the term ordinary expression of lex orandi of Pope Paul VI's Roman Missal and then using the term extraordinary expression if Roman Missal of Pope St Pius V and Blessed John XXIII. ( Summorum Pontificum )
Well logically speaking...if you have the choice of extraordinary Missal and ordinary Missal, of course you will choose the extraordinary Missal ! i would !!!
If you think Mocking Pope Benedict gets you points towards getting to heaven, you're not Catholic. Pope Benedict who is actually a valid Pope is the only reason the SSPX has some restored facilities at all.
Can we pray for the traditional mass to be reinstated worldwide?
TLM or SSPX? 2 polar opposite things.
This has led to a total lack of reverence
What I don't understand is... why? Why did those theologians were willing to water down the rite of the Mass and drain it from its sacred mystery, in order to please the Protestants? Just why?
I don't know, but it failed miserably. I am a former protestant and can tell you that 0 protestants would ever consider converting just because the catholic mass looks more like protestant Churches. If there are any, it is an extremely small percentage barely worth mentioning.
It’s because they themselves are non-believers. They wanted to strip Catholicism down to bare bones universalism. So that faith would not interfere with using the catholic structure as a modernist NGO. From the standpoint of the church hierarchy, they have been completely successful.
I've been asking that question all over the internet. Just have not had the answer to WHY!??!! (It's just evil, I guess.)
@@railsplitters79 - Good answer.
You'd have to take a look at the history of the creation of the new mass. Originally, the Liturgical movement, which was founded by Dom Gueranger started out as a good thing, which was designed to bring Catholics to a deeper understanding and appreciation of and for the Mass. After he died, the movement was hijacked by Dom Beauduin, who had protestant influences in his way of thinking, as well as a deep fascination for oriental culture, religions, etc.
He was the one who started implementing experimental changes in the Mass, which were all very hush hush. He referred to them as his "naughty little retreats," and either he or one of his followers referred to them as "little orgies of Liturgical ecumenism." These experiments included standing during the Consecration, the Mass in vernacular languages, versus populum (Mass facing the people), Communion in the hand, etc., etc.
There were other heterodox priests at the time, whose false theologies influenced the liturgical movement, as well as influences the theology of the new liturgy, such as Fr. Bouyer and his theology of the Mass as the assembly of the people of God, and Dom Casel, whose paschal mystery novel theology taught that the Mass was an objective memorial, making present the literal cavalry via the remembrance of the events of the priest as well as the entire assembly, rather than the Catholic understanding, which teaches that there is a memorial dimension to the Mass but during the Mass itself, Christ renews his intention of His Sacrifice at Calvary, while being Mystically immolated via the separate consecrations of the bread and wine, this creating an immolation under visible signs.
Anyway, eventually the Liturgical movement gained some measure of influence by disguising its actions and intentions, which allowed Pius XII to give in to some concessions such as changing the Holy Week rituals, and allowing some vernacular use for pastoral reasons in Germany, and iirc, the lessening of the Eucharist fast from midnight to the time of reception down to merely 3 hours. Of he had known what they were really up to, he wouldn't have done any of that.
Eventually, Dom Beauduin became really old and as is the case with all revolutions, his underlings took his revolution even further, making him even say that they were taking it too far, and at that exact same time, Father Bugnini (the author of sacrosanctum concillium, as well as an alleged - yet highly likely to be - freemason) got to take a look at the final product of the bastardized liturgy Beauduin and his cronies created. He liked what he saw but falsely promised to Dom Beauduin that he wouldn't bring any of it up to Rome (since at the time, he was heading there because Vatican II was close to convening).
And well, as they say, the rest is history.
At the NO Mass it seems now the priest goal is to sit down in his chair most of the time while deacons and lay folk do the readings and homily - also the priest seems to not really want to be there, sad to say. Going to find our Sspx chapel which I know is within 15 mins drive from home . Also- the NO Mass seems to be this meal, assembly - yes that’s what they said last time ! It seemed so weird ! Meal - table - I noticed this last Sunday !
Tl;dr: The TLM became, whereas the NOM was made.
Excellent episode, but I don't think that Father spent enough time on this key point. There were many rites throughout the years, as NOM proponents are apt to point out (loudly and often), but they neglect to consider how this argument undermines the very idea of the NOM. Most of the rites that existed were variants on one of the existing, passed-down liturgical traditions, be it Latin, Eastern, Coptic, etc. In the western Church, these other rites that they use to defend the NOM were in Latin, ad orientem, emphasized the sacrificial nature and the real presence, and most importantly grew organically out of the liturgical history of the Church.
Pius V accepted other rites, but based on their organic development and use over the years, because he understood the nature of tradition (tradere, or passing down): any rite more than 200 years old at the time of Trent could continue to be used, while all novelty was to be thrown out.
The NOM by contrast was invented ex nihilo by Monsignor Bugnini, and while the TLM and other ancient rites stand on a firm foundation of Church history and natural development over generations, the NOM rests solely on the shoulders of him and his group of liturgical "experimenters" from the 1960s. They took elements of previous rites, new ideas, and pieced them together like something out of a Mary Shelley novel, hiding behind those antiquarian elements like the position of the sacristy to claim some form of history for the rite when in fact it has none.
If they truly wanted to return to an earlier liturgical form, I doubt any traditional Catholic would have objected to the point of resistance to a shift to one of those other ancient western rites which had never been suppressed as the new standard without banning any other ancient rite - including the TLM - for religious orders, as that would have been nothing other than what Pius V did at Trent, but that was too traditional for this combination antiquarian/experimental liturgical movement. We see today the fruits of their labors.
I wish I was able to go to a latin mass.
It’s beyond my comprehension that most Catholics accepted this Protestant version of the “New Mass”.
The New Mass was crafted by 5 protestant ministers for the blinded catholics. Mass conversion indeed.
In fact, reverent Protestant customs -- kneeling to receive - were changed by influence by VII, not vice versa. Also, celebration ad orientum.
Thank you, really, thank you so much. But what about the part of Vatican II that reiterates that the Church is necessary for salvation? How then could the mass thence arising be “ecumenical?” Just a question, not trying to “own” anybody. God bless. :)
I have a friend who argues that when Eucharistic prayer I is used, the Novus Ordo is as theologically sufficient (as far as conveying the sacrificial character of the Mass) as the TLM. Could anyone help me out with a response to this argument?
I wouldn't suggest getting clarification here. All you will get is it's SSPX or no salvation or at least a long time in purgatory until you finally admit they are the only true Catholic Church. It's tragic but that's what this society believes. I have rosaries prayed with by a visionary from Medjugorje and a Charismatic Novus Ordo priest who has saved my life in countless ways. Guess I'm doomed.
'Ecumenism = Unity ~ Truth.' That is, false religion. TY Father, for your clarity and precision. The NO's verbosity is itself a sign of its falsehood. 'Make your 'yes' a yes; and your 'no' a no.' Amen. 'Geez, dad, they really dumbed it down.' My 16 year old son from backseat of the car, after our family's 1st Tridentine Mass.
There are no traditional masses in our community. Nor are there any in surrounding communities. Am I obliged to attend the Novis Ordo to fulfill my Sunday obligation?
Absolutely yes, the novus ordo is the same Sacrifice of Christ as the traditional rite.
Absolutely yes, they are the same sacrifice of Calvary even if the rite is different.
TRUTH....
Can a deacon in the SSPX distribute Holy Communion?
Yes, but we prefer not not make use of the deacons for that purpose unless no priests are available (e.g. a parish of thousands, and there is only one priest to distribute).
Et introibo ad altare Dei, ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam.
🙏🛡️🗡️
Iota unum non praeteribit. (Mat V, 18)
Miscuit in medio eius spiritum vertiginis. (Is XIX, 14)
Moribus antiquis stat res romana virisque. (Ennio)
Hic manebimus optime. (Furio Camilo)
How any can attend Novus Ordo is beyond me. It's Invalid Mass and Consecration
No, it has the words of consecration, so the Novus Ordo is absolutely valid. Non prevalebunt! I suggest you to go to confession for saying that.
Where in Ireland can I get traditional mass
There's at least 5 Churches and Chapels of the SSPX there in Ireland.
1). Belfast - St. Pious V Chapel
2). Athlone - Corpus Christi Church
3). Cork - Our Lady of the Rosary Church
4). Dublin - St. John's Church
5). Newry - Our Lady of Knock & St. Patrick Chapel.
I hope you've already found one near you, but in case you haven't these are the Churches/Chapels of SSPX there. Hope one is near where you live. Found these Churches through Google search (of all places).
God bless and God speed. ♥️💙🕊🙏
1969 ?
It seems to me that Churches were doing new order masses in 67 and 68 ?
It’s before my time. But my understanding is that there were liberal parishes doing versions of the new mass well before it was enforced on the whole church.
14 genuflections=14 Holy Steps of Jesus Christ in Golgotha?
I'm a Catholic; where's the Mass for me. Don't I matter to the Church?
Five protestant ministers were invited to craft the new proestant msss. Namely Dr. George, Dr. Thurian and I fotgot the three.
How do you know?
1 st
Father stated that the priest who was the architect of the new Mass said everything that was a stumbling block was removed from the Mass? Gee I thought the priest in the LTM or in the Novus Ordo Mass consecrated the bread and wine into the real presence - which most protestants that I have talked to through the years have found to be the biggest stumbling block in our faith. By the way there is no Modern Catholic church but there is one Holy Roman Catholic Church around since St Peter and now Pope Francis
Well 70% of Catholics don’t believe in the real presence. So what you believe puts you in a very small Minority. What do you think that percentage was before the new mass?
Father distinguished between validity and ceremony/theology and pointed out Bugnini's stated intention. Did you even listen?
The novus ordo can also be celebrated very holy and the vetus ordo can be celebrated very sloppy and bad ,it is a matter of faith and love for Jesus . Lefevbre was so wrong.He did only trust in himself not in God ,and his followers are the same. Jesus Christ is the name of our saviour and he lives in his church ,our saviours name is not Lefevbre.
Timothy 4:3 Giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2.. 3. Forbidding to marry, Mathew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Bob. Study Catholic doctrine. Jesus founded One Church. Join our Holy Society.
SSPX is tragically stuck in the middle ages
It’s called being Christian.
Oh, by Middle Ages, are you referring to the Age of Faith? Asking for a friend.
no, they just stick to the Doctrines of the Church
What a pathetic way to say we have in fact regressed in modern times. If regression is your thing go to a Jesuit parish.
How can you say the Roman Canon of the new Roman Missal isn't valid