i drive 83 from york to harrisburg everyday, and that 283 name irritates me everyday. it is literally a 2 mile spur down to the turnpike and pa 283 to lancaster and the airport. by no way is it a loop, it truely should be named 183 if that
I like Wilkes-Barre/Allentown at the northern end on the overheads, but with a guide sign somewhere before it ends saying follow 81 North to 78 for New York City. NYC is never a bad place to sign, but 83 isn’t much of a long-distance traffic driver compared to its neighbor interstates.
I-83 is, well, wierd. I-83 was supposed to go a the way through Baltimore, just like I-70 was, but both were stopped. Thus, I-83 ends where it does at the southern end. It is a mystery to me why I-83 was not extended to Buffalo, New York. Pennsylvania could extend I-83 to State College and I-80....but I am talking about Pennsylvania, so not much common sense.
I have fond memories of I-83. Up until about 2017, I would visit York with my grandfather & my brother. And we would go to a candy store called Wolfgang's. Unfortunately, after 2017, they stopped doing in person shopping and switched to online only. We would also stop at the Cracker Barrel in Shrewsbury on the way back. So good times there. As for my ideal control cities, it would be as follows : North : York/Harrisburg Harrisburg Scranton/Allentown South : Harrisburg York Baltimore/Washington Baltimore
While there have been recent widening projects that has made it better and some better entrance ramps, this is one of the worst interstates in the whole country. First drove it back in the 90s when my future wife lived in York. Have to drive it at times going to away tennis matches as I live in Coach in the area I avoid it whenever I can.
America needs highspeed rail. We got enough highways. All them highways down there are always slow or backed up. The people of the west have sat back for years watching the far more advanced countries of the far east become more advanced in these modern marvels of transportation. The country that can put a man on the moon to jump around and pick up rocks at a cost of billions but cant do highspeed rail. Sounds messed up doesn't it? Highspeed bullet trains and maglev super train technology, the new american dream.....
Totally agree. I've spent lots of time in countries that have it. Northeast Corridor is the closest thing we have, but there's A LOT of room for improvement on Acela.
And for some reason a lot of it is barely interstate standards especially with the tight curves around York, and they love 55 mph even in the faster sections....
It makes little sense for 83 and 97 to be separate interstates to be separate interstates. Together they are shorter than I-476. They should choose one to extend along the west side of I-695 and then the other and have the east side of 695 and the leg of 83 south of it be off branches, and have whichever number is now open be given to 476
I'll make an argument against New York here: I think that in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania would rather push New York traffic toward the Pennsylvania Turnpike, given that both 78 and 76 to 95 result in a roughly three-hour trip from Harrisburg to NYC. But I agree that there's no reason to sign Hazelton. It should be Allentown.
You're definitely right, Dan .... but for folk that DO NOT wanna pay turnpike toll fare across the WHOLE state of PA and then NJ .... 78 is the way to go.
There's talks about I-83 extending northward all the way to Rochester NY, presumably replacing both I-180 in PA and I-390 in NY. I think I-83 should go around Baltimore and replace all of I-97.
I'd DEFINITELY sign I-83 Northbound for York, and then Harrisburg, and then Allentown, New York, or maybe Scranton. Southbound, I agree with you, Todd on "The Way It Should Be." I like signing a downtown area of a major city if an Interstate Highway goes there, and signing Downtown Harrisburg definitely makes sense going Southbound.
I used to ask my parents to drive on the JFX whenever we went to Baltimore when I lived in Maryland. Did you know that I-83 was intended to continue south through the Fells Point neighborhood to an interchange with I-95 in Canton east of the Fort McHenry Tunnel. That project was cancelled in 1982 due to freeway revolts that also cancelled I-70 and I-170 which later became the random freeway ditch of US 40 in West Baltimore. Maybe you should do a video about Baltimore freeways someday.
I lived in the Harrisburg area for a short time. I'm OK with not signing downtown for I-83 south because you can also get there very easily from I-81 as well and sometimes it is faster to take I-81 because of traffic.
Much traffic on I-81 north is headed to New York City or its New Jersey suburbs anyway, and I would pick Scranton or even Wilkes-Barre over Hazleton anyway.
@@spellcast1391 I'd skip Yarrick (York) because it's only about 26 miles from Harrosburg (bigger population, state capitol). If you sign York, you might as well sign other suburbs in bigger metropolitan areas that shouldn't be signed (Carlisle and Joliet are 2 examples that come to mind right away)
Nice to see I-83 covered Also you mispronounced the city "Lancaster" few times in the video You pronounce it "Lan-Kiss-ter" Instead of the way most people pronounce it
I-83 Is A Good Road But I Think I-83 Could Be Extended To State College, PA & ultimately Go to Buffalo, New York Or Rochester, New York Since There Are No North-South 2-digit Interstate connections with those Cities. Taking Over The Purpose Of I-99.
I don’t agree with signing New York at the I-81 N interchange. If anyone is going to New York they probably wouldn’t be on I-83 to begin with. They probably would have taken I-95 from Baltimore. I would keep Allentown and replace Hazelton with either Scranton or Wilks Barre
The same for signing Baltimore from 78. Most everywhere on 78 would be doing 476-95 to Baltimore (alternatively, if you're doing 81 for NE megalopolis to NE megalopolis, you know what you're doing so no need to use sign real estate for that).
@@mxderate Even from Harrisburg north on 83, Allentown and Scranton are both better control cities on 81 considering relative distance and population (it's pretty narrow: at the I-81/I-83 interchange the I-81 NB control city prominences (roughly CSA/metro/county pop over (distance-plus-20-miles)-squared, with a tweak to penalize cities only reachable by another 2di) should be: Allentown 95.60, Scranton 32.22, NYC 25.01. Pennsylvania makes plenty of bad control city choices, but not signing NYC here isn't one of them IMO.
I-83 for the most part is an acceptable highway with mostly reasonable control cities. Even though York is the smallest signed place it passes through York is quite populated. In other words York is no Limon.
Never had to use it on I-83. I would have just done Illinois Style and done “Junction I-81” once in Harrisburg. NYC could work but I doubt PA would like to sign out of state Control Cities when they don’t have to.
@@spellcast1391 I’ve been noticing that about PA as well with this channel in terms of not wanting to sign out of state. Still, they have in-state options they could conceivably go with if they don’t want NYC (Allentown, Wilkes-Barre, Scranton). Junction-81 like you said could work better than putting in Hazleton or whatever that name is (it wasn’t in my contract to care about its spelling, so I’m not gonna bother looking it up)
Wish that they should decommission I-283 in Harrisburg Pennsylvania, because it is only a mile long and it is not a loop to bypass the city. 👎. It should be PA-283 instead. Many years ago, they have decommissioned I-296 in Grand Rapids Michigan and became I-196. Same goes to I-375 in Downtown Detroit.
It's funny you say that because I-283 links up to a road that IS Pennsylvania Route 283, if you don't get on the turnpike coming from 83. I suppose they could take down the signs though and extend the PA 283 designation from that junction going the other way until you get to I-83.
If you’re referring to the eastern I-84, it’s actually gotten better. It’s good that they made Scranton the control city going westbound in NY instead of Port Jervis. Can’t really comment on CT though as I haven’t been through that way in years.
I think I've been on business route 83 once, Harrisburg is a clusterfrick of on ramps and off ramps. It was crazy. I have an elderly friend who was a train engineer in the 60s in the heyday of PA Steel Town. A lot of the bridges there are train bridges..
The reason why Pikesville is mentioned over Owings Mills is probably because I-795 is Owings Mills main highway and Pikesville is closer to 695 overall. Also York is technically it’s own metro area even if it’s close to Harrisburg.
Todd, people heading north on I-81 that are going to Baltimore would've gotten off I-81 at I-70. For this reason, I can see I-81 NB being signed for York at the I-83 interchange. SB I-81 should definitely be signed for Baltimore at the I-83 interchange. For that reason, I can see I-83 being signed for both York & Baltimore going SB.
@@truckercowboyed2638 taking rt. 15 all the way to Frederick will add almost an hour to the trip. Both trips from Rochester (where I currently live) to Baltimore or Frederick takes almost 6 hours. From Frederick, it'll take another hour to get to Baltimore.
Signing New York on I-83 North makes no sense in my opinion as I believe that most people heading in that direction would have already gone up I-95 when they were in Baltimore. I don't know, maybe you're thinking of something that I'm missing.
NB I-83: York, Harrisburg SB I-83: “York”(as a secondary), Baltimore(primary and ALL SB milage signs). York and Harrisburg are close enough in size it doesn’t make sense for Maryland to skip over York. And York comes first.
Traveled on I 83 from I 695 to US 30 in York. A trip from Florida to my Aunts house in Reading Pa. Basically in York you pick up US 30 west to Gettysburg and East to Lancaster and Reading via US 222. For most People in Southeast pa It's an alternative for the Philly Airport to go to Baltimore Airport. Also points south on I 95.
Before watching this, I thought that I-83 would be perfectly signed (despite being in PA) and then I saw that Hazleton sign. At least I-86 and I-90 is perfectly signed in PA, but those episodes are a long way off.
Hey, Todd! Another great video! Not from Maryland, however I agree with what you think the control cities ought to be for I-83. Side note: Excited for you to get to I-90 & I-94! As a native Wisconsinite, it's been too long since you last covered an interstate in Wisconsin (I-43).
What's funny is I78 goes directly into Manhattan, New York City but barely signs it in Pennsylvania, but i95 which kinda goes around to the Bronx, i95 section in Maryland has plenty of proper signing for New York and NYC....
1:50 Interestingly, I looked up I-83 on Wikipedia and Google Maps, because I figured maybe that was just called exit 8 because they were counting miles from the originally-planned interchange with I-95 (which obviously never came to be, as other commenters mentioned). But... nope! It is indeed Maryland being sequential within the city of Baltimore itself; once I-83 leaves the city limits, the mileage starts to affect the exit numbers, but the exit numbers never actually seem to match up with the actual mileage.
Interstate 83 in Maryland is Surrounded on trees on both sides making for a nice drive. But interstate 83 in Pennsylvania is old obsolete and narrow. The exit ramps are too tight making it challenging to get on and off.
I’d sign 81 North for Allentown and Wilkes-Barre. OK with holding off on New York until meeting I-78. 81 South is a curious one. Carlisle doesn’t make much sense directionally. Probably just State College is best there and then add back Carlisle at the 81/322 split.
@@mxderate Certainly. We beat up 81 mainline pretty good, so I was just thinking what the sign should be on 83 here. And that point nothing for 81 South makes sense, as it’s probably only local traffic and 322 State College traffic taking that.
Reason why Hazleton is signed so much on i81 and i83 is due to the amount of warehouses and factorys there and it's the town closest to the i81 and i80 interchange
I think we should extend 83 to either state college or Williamsport, and then take over the section of 99 between there and Corning, NY. 99 South of state college can be called 976 as its purpose is to get 76 traffic to Altoona and State College
This will allow 476 to be part of the “interstate 99” that Delaware wants to built on the Delmarva peninsula, which should happen because 476 being an off branch of 76 makes no sense
Remember, I-83 replaces all of US 111 that also connects Baltimore and Harrisburg, PA. We all agree to sign Harrisburg for northbound and Baltimore for southbound. However, for me, in both directions, I'll also sign York, PA as a secondary just above the primary. Therefore,: Northbound I-83: -York, PA | •Harrisburg, PA •Harrisburg, PA Southbound I-83: -York, PA | •Baltimore •Baltimore ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE: Eastbound I-83/I-695 MD: •Harrisburg, PA >Philadelphia (not NYC) Westbound I-83/I-695 MD: •Downtown Baltimore >Washington, DC
Exit 8 in MD and MD exits in general: I have to wonder if these were numbered based on the intended mileage of 83 instead of the actual mileage. Lots of freeway cancellations in Baltimore.
Great video! Some comments on I-83. In downtown Harrisburg I-83 is actually signed for the airport and Hershey which kinda makes sense from downtown. They recently redid the Freeway from I-283 to I-81 and plan to do I-283/Us 322 to PA 581. Years ago I-83 NB from I-283 interchange in all directions was signed as Lewiston/Hazleton which made no sense. Thankfully they changed it to the much more famous State College which I think is fine as a dual Control City Maybe with Allentown or Wilkes-barre. Also I-83 NB from US. 322 is signed for State College/Carlisle interestingly which I think is cool as coming from Hershey there are several roads that bring you up to I-81/I-78 Pa-581 is signed for Gettysburg/Camp hill even though it’s literally the next exit. maybe Gettysburg/Carlisle or Gettysburg/Hagerstown would be better? Great video, glad you finally got to my home interstate (I have many memories from it).
I 83 history Pennsylvania. Another pre Interstate planned route in Pa. Started in 1950 replacing US 111 from the Borough of Lemoyne at US 11 and Pa SR 581 to Maryland state line. Basically building a bypass around York. The capital beltway section was finished around 1971 including the Eisenhower Interchange with US 322 and I 283. The Interchange was pictured on the official Pennsylvania State map 1972 1973 edition. Being built in 1950s the expressway is narrow with a Jersey Barrier in the center median.
83 was originally supposed to go through Fells Point and terminate at/interchange with 95 just south of the O’Donnell St interchange. Ramp stubs for that interchange still exist and are quite visible in aerial photos.
I don’t think there are any major changes I’d make here. Along the 83/695 “concurrency”, I’d sign Philadelphia along with Towson, at least N/E. Also, it’s a bit off U.S. 322 E (via U.S. 422), but Lebanon could be listed.
Years ago there was talk about extending I-83 to Buffalo but I doubt it will ever happen. I could see extending it to Rochester up route 15, I-86 and I-390. but there would have to be major upgrades to 147 going towards I-80.
I think the more likely scenario is that I-99 will extend up to Rochester when the section between Lawrenceville and Bellefonte in Pennsylvania is complete, which is totally messed up. I-99, along with I-97 are among the weirdest interstate highways in the system for different reasons. I-99, specifically is a rule-breaker of American interstate standards as it is west of I-81 and east of I-97, and the number was proposed by Bud Schuster for personal reasons. I-97 is also weird as it doesn't connect to any other two-digit interstates and is only within one county. I-83, ironically enough, could be used to solve both these oddities by taking over I-97 south of Baltimore and I-99 north of Williamsport, Pennsylvania, and then renumber I-99 an extension of I-180 between Williamsport and Bellefonte and I-580, I-170, or I-776 south of Bellefonte. I bet Todd will have some gripes with I-99 when he goes over it and its control cities.
@@kcore1427 I agree about I-99, it's the road to nowhere. I-580 or 776 would be more fitting. I-99 could be used in Maine or some place in the deep northeast. Logically I-83 to Rochester would be more logical. Somehow I believe politics is behind I-99. As For I-97, that's another headache.
Jones Falls Expressway Unbuilt. Since I 95 changed from the early alignments so did I 70 and I 83. I 95 would take a more southern route rather then a central Baltimore route on earlier alignments. The current ending is about where it was originally supposed to end. A proposed extension was canceled in 1982. You can see the ghost stub ramps of where I 70 ,I 83 and other Expressway would have ended on I 95. Google Maps Satellite. Maryland signs New York via Delaware Memorial Bridge and New Jersey Turnpike rather than going into Philly. Wilmington area you see Philly signs.
Good stuff Todd! :) I don't really have much to say this time tbh, but it is cool to see a road that has signs for my home town at the top end of it being covered.
My Control Cities for I-83
North:
York / Harrisburg
Harrisburg
South:
Harrisburg / Baltimore
York / Baltimore
Baltimore
The way I think it should be
NORTH: York
Harrisburg
Scranton / Allentown
SOUTH: Downtown Harrisburg / York
York / Baltimore
Baltimore
Could the exit numbers in MD be due to freeway protests and a cancelled extension?
Wow 1 day early!
8:10 Yocumtown
i drive 83 from york to harrisburg everyday, and that 283 name irritates me everyday. it is literally a 2 mile spur down to the turnpike and pa 283 to lancaster and the airport. by no way is it a loop, it truely should be named 183 if that
7:58 Replace new cumberland with Lancaster or Allentown
I like Wilkes-Barre/Allentown at the northern end on the overheads, but with a guide sign somewhere before it ends saying follow 81 North to 78 for New York City.
NYC is never a bad place to sign, but 83 isn’t much of a long-distance traffic driver compared to its neighbor interstates.
3:37 Harrisburg & Lancaster should be the proper signage
12:06 i would also sign washington DC with baltimore when passing york on south bound cuz of I-695
I 83 should end at the 581 Loop since 581 is a beltway around Harrisburg
8:27 baltimore by itself is good but if u add washington DC it would be better
I-83 is, well, wierd. I-83 was supposed to go a the way through Baltimore, just like I-70 was, but both were stopped. Thus, I-83 ends where it does at the southern end.
It is a mystery to me why I-83 was not extended to Buffalo, New York. Pennsylvania could extend I-83 to State College and I-80....but I am talking about Pennsylvania, so not much common sense.
Fun fact! I-83 in Maryland is within the county limits of Baltimore. also don’t ask me.
It's always a good day when Todd uploads a day early.
Surprise for me lol. I meant to schedule it for tomorrow.
I have fond memories of I-83. Up until about 2017, I would visit York with my grandfather & my brother. And we would go to a candy store called Wolfgang's. Unfortunately, after 2017, they stopped doing in person shopping and switched to online only. We would also stop at the Cracker Barrel in Shrewsbury on the way back. So good times there.
As for my ideal control cities, it would be as follows :
North :
York/Harrisburg
Harrisburg
Scranton/Allentown
South :
Harrisburg
York
Baltimore/Washington
Baltimore
While there have been recent widening projects that has made it better and some better entrance ramps, this is one of the worst interstates in the whole country.
First drove it back in the 90s when my future wife lived in York.
Have to drive it at times going to away tennis matches as I live in Coach in the area
I avoid it whenever I can.
7:45 apparently DLA is a military base (US Defense Logistics Agency) which you can get to by I-83 South to PA-114 East
Oh cool, thanks!
Defense Logistics Agency distribution center
I see, Peak Pennsylvania
America needs highspeed rail. We got enough highways. All them highways down there are always slow or backed up. The people of the west have sat back for years watching the far more advanced countries of the far east become more advanced in these modern marvels of transportation. The country that can put a man on the moon to jump around and pick up rocks at a cost of billions but cant do highspeed rail. Sounds messed up doesn't it? Highspeed bullet trains and maglev super train technology, the new american dream.....
Totally agree. I've spent lots of time in countries that have it. Northeast Corridor is the closest thing we have, but there's A LOT of room for improvement on Acela.
Ah yes, Interstate 83. A highway full of PA drivers who don't understand how the passing lane works.
And for some reason a lot of it is barely interstate standards especially with the tight curves around York, and they love 55 mph even in the faster sections....
Early Upload!
This is a good day.
Oops. Lol
PA loves York.. but never New York lol York is at least a better control then many they used
It makes little sense for 83 and 97 to be separate interstates to be separate interstates. Together they are shorter than I-476. They should choose one to extend along the west side of I-695 and then the other and have the east side of 695 and the leg of 83 south of it be off branches, and have whichever number is now open be given to 476
And I will say so again on the 97 video
I could see switching 97 to something like 995, but I don’t see any use in running a concurrency on the beltway.
At least Hershey and York are "sweet" control cities (due to Hershey's chocolate and York Peppermint Patties). 🤩
Lol
Wow this was unexpected an interstate video pretty early. I was waiting until tomorrow lol
D’oh! I thought I set it for tomorrow too lol
@@ControlCityFreak lol
I'll make an argument against New York here: I think that in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania would rather push New York traffic toward the Pennsylvania Turnpike, given that both 78 and 76 to 95 result in a roughly three-hour trip from Harrisburg to NYC.
But I agree that there's no reason to sign Hazelton. It should be Allentown.
You're definitely right, Dan .... but for folk that DO NOT wanna pay turnpike toll fare across the WHOLE state of PA and then NJ .... 78 is the way to go.
@@dhinton1 I agree...but there's no benefit for Pennsylvania to tell drivers that.
Dan Angell NO HAZLETON FOR SURE 💯%
4:12 finally an exit where you don’t have to do a Breezewood to get on
the sign with DLA off I-83 near Harrisburg is the US Defense Logistics Agency; it's a military supply depot
Thank you 😎
There's talks about I-83 extending northward all the way to Rochester NY, presumably replacing both I-180 in PA and I-390 in NY. I think I-83 should go around Baltimore and replace all of I-97.
That could work
For 2 straight years the view at 8:42 was my commute. Go Spartans.
In your 84 video next, please please please do a little excursion on 684 in Westchester County NY, it is my home interstate!!!
Doing the west one first
684 will likely be it’s own video at some
point
At the intersection with 695, the control city should be “Pennsylvania” as 83 goes to Harrisburg and 695 is the fastest way to Philadelphia
PennDOT just LOVE signing Hazelton....even if the rest of us are tired of it.
Maryland forgot to mention Interstate 68 on their part of I-83
Lol
I'd DEFINITELY sign I-83 Northbound for York, and then Harrisburg, and then Allentown, New York, or maybe Scranton. Southbound, I agree with you, Todd on "The Way It Should Be." I like signing a downtown area of a major city if an Interstate Highway goes there, and signing Downtown Harrisburg definitely makes sense going Southbound.
I used to ask my parents to drive on the JFX whenever we went to Baltimore when I lived in Maryland. Did you know that I-83 was intended to continue south through the Fells Point neighborhood to an interchange with I-95 in Canton east of the Fort McHenry Tunnel. That project was cancelled in 1982 due to freeway revolts that also cancelled I-70 and I-170 which later became the random freeway ditch of US 40 in West Baltimore. Maybe you should do a video about Baltimore freeways someday.
I’ve studied them a little so I may do that!
Wasn't expecting you to post on Wednesdays
Neither was I lol. I thought I scheduled it for Thursday
I always have been curious why they're is a i83 and a business 83 basically the whole way......
Very surprised about Pennsylvania’s good control cities in this episode with the exception of hazleton.
Same!
I lived in the Harrisburg area for a short time. I'm OK with not signing downtown for I-83 south because you can also get there very easily from I-81 as well and sometimes it is faster to take I-81 because of traffic.
Much traffic on I-81 north is headed to New York City or its New Jersey suburbs anyway, and I would pick Scranton or even Wilkes-Barre over Hazleton anyway.
Dave's The Way it Should Be:
NORTH: Harrisburg, Allentown/New York
SOUTH: Baltimore (maybe Baltimore/Washington until 695), Baltimore (after 695)
York should be Northbound out of Baltimore.
Baltimore is a good choice Southbound. Only “Big” City I-83 goes to. But I’ve heard of York and Harrisburg before as well
@@spellcast1391 I'd skip Yarrick (York) because it's only about 26 miles from Harrosburg (bigger population, state capitol). If you sign York, you might as well sign other suburbs in bigger metropolitan areas that shouldn't be signed (Carlisle and Joliet are 2 examples that come to mind right away)
@@spellcast1391 No York. It's only 26 miles from Harrisburg, and it is significantly less important and well known than Harrisburg.
@@DMAN_2314 Unlike those, York isn’t considered a suburb of Harrisburg.
@4:56 that sign was for the longest time signed for Lewistown instead of State College. You can tell the difference in the font.
I just realized the sheer number of Interstate routes in the 80-89 range.
There’s a ton!
68-91
Nice to see I-83 covered
Also you mispronounced the city "Lancaster" few times in the video
You pronounce it "Lan-Kiss-ter"
Instead of the way most people pronounce it
This is a short interstate connecting some major cities in PA and MD And is a good use getting between PA and MD. Can't wait to see 84 And 85!
It is. Great way to get around I95 if you are going south and don't care about going to NYC or Philadelphia
I-83 Is A Good Road But I Think I-83 Could Be Extended To State College, PA & ultimately Go to Buffalo, New York Or Rochester, New York Since There Are No North-South 2-digit Interstate connections with those Cities. Taking Over The Purpose Of I-99.
I don’t agree with signing New York at the I-81 N interchange. If anyone is going to New York they probably wouldn’t be on I-83 to begin with. They probably would have taken I-95 from Baltimore. I would keep Allentown and replace Hazelton with either Scranton or Wilks Barre
The same for signing Baltimore from 78. Most everywhere on 78 would be doing 476-95 to Baltimore (alternatively, if you're doing 81 for NE megalopolis to NE megalopolis, you know what you're doing so no need to use sign real estate for that).
True but it makes sense from York on, and taking 95 from Baltimore can involve heavy traffic and something like $30-40 in tolls.
Yeah but that's why it's only signed from Harrisburg, not from the beginning.
@@mxderate Even from Harrisburg north on 83, Allentown and Scranton are both better control cities on 81 considering relative distance and population (it's pretty narrow: at the I-81/I-83 interchange the I-81 NB control city prominences (roughly CSA/metro/county pop over (distance-plus-20-miles)-squared, with a tweak to penalize cities only reachable by another 2di) should be: Allentown 95.60, Scranton 32.22, NYC 25.01. Pennsylvania makes plenty of bad control city choices, but not signing NYC here isn't one of them IMO.
@@LeviRamsey NYC is 20,000,000 people. It’s WAY bigger than both cities combined.
I-83 for the most part is an acceptable highway with mostly reasonable control cities. Even though York is the smallest signed place it passes through York is quite populated. In other words York is no Limon.
For sure
PA just loves signing Hazelton
Never had to use it on I-83. I would have just done Illinois Style and done “Junction I-81” once in Harrisburg. NYC could work but I doubt PA would like to sign out of state Control Cities when they don’t have to.
True but Allentown would still be better.
@@ControlCityFreak NYC too
@@spellcast1391 I’ve been noticing that about PA as well with this channel in terms of not wanting to sign out of state. Still, they have in-state options they could conceivably go with if they don’t want NYC (Allentown, Wilkes-Barre, Scranton). Junction-81 like you said could work better than putting in Hazleton or whatever that name is (it wasn’t in my contract to care about its spelling, so I’m not gonna bother looking it up)
Wish that they should decommission I-283 in Harrisburg Pennsylvania, because it is only a mile long and it is not a loop to bypass the city. 👎. It should be PA-283 instead. Many years ago, they have decommissioned I-296 in Grand Rapids Michigan and became I-196. Same goes to I-375 in Downtown Detroit.
It's funny you say that because I-283 links up to a road that IS Pennsylvania Route 283, if you don't get on the turnpike coming from 83. I suppose they could take down the signs though and extend the PA 283 designation from that junction going the other way until you get to I-83.
N.F.'s the way it should be!
NORTH: Harrisburg, Allentown
SOUTH: Harrisburg/Baltimore (until Downtown), Baltimore
York should be signed as well, it's a decent sized place
Agree. York should be used Northbound- it is decently sized and not that much smaller than Harrisburg. Less than 10,000 person difference
I would prefer NYC instead of Allentown
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv NB only. SB it should be Baltimore
@@mxderate NYC also works for the northbound side but I definitely would NOT sign Hazelton
2:19 is 695 N. 83 Towson York, PA
DLA is the Defense Logistics Agency.
Next week I-84 and boy were in for some bad control city’s 😬
If you’re referring to the eastern I-84, it’s actually gotten better. It’s good that they made Scranton the control city going westbound in NY instead of Port Jervis. Can’t really comment on CT though as I haven’t been through that way in years.
@@ErikCB912 never had qualms about CT
Mind you I was born and raised there. and I always loved along 84
We all know Penndot is going to have some good choices going east bound
@@AdamSmith-gs2dv yah mind you I’ve never driven 84E between I81 and NY 17. I have entire westbound interstate between I90 and I81.
@@ErikCB912 CCF will do WB first
I’m in the early gang for the first time
Woot!
I think I've been on business route 83 once, Harrisburg is a clusterfrick of on ramps and off ramps. It was crazy.
I have an elderly friend who was a train engineer in the 60s in the heyday of PA Steel Town. A lot of the bridges there are train bridges..
Mod’s the way it should be:
(NORTH): Harrisburg, New York City
(SOUTH): Baltimore
Agreed
I wasn’t expecting to see you today 😂😂
I have been on the entire interstate 83 from Baltimore, MD to Harrisburg, PA
I’ve only taken it to York, never did get in those last few miles to Harrisburg.
The reason why Pikesville is mentioned over Owings Mills is probably because I-795 is Owings Mills main highway and Pikesville is closer to 695 overall. Also York is technically it’s own metro area even if it’s close to Harrisburg.
Todd, people heading north on I-81 that are going to Baltimore would've gotten off I-81 at I-70. For this reason, I can see I-81 NB being signed for York at the I-83 interchange. SB I-81 should definitely be signed for Baltimore at the I-83 interchange. For that reason, I can see I-83 being signed for both York & Baltimore going SB.
If you are going south on rt. 15 you would go north on I-81 to get to I-83 to get to Baltimore. I've done this several times.
@@theawesomer8587 actually 15 takes you to 70 you could just take i70 to Frederick MD and into Baltimore.....no need to go on i81
@@truckercowboyed2638 taking rt. 15 all the way to Frederick will add almost an hour to the trip. Both trips from Rochester (where I currently live) to Baltimore or Frederick takes almost 6 hours. From Frederick, it'll take another hour to get to Baltimore.
Good point there
Signing New York on I-83 North makes no sense in my opinion as I believe that most people heading in that direction would have already gone up I-95 when they were in Baltimore. I don't know, maybe you're thinking of something that I'm missing.
From that point it would. I wouldn’t sign it NYC in Maryland. Also, a lot of people do use this route to get to NY, 95 has a ton of traffic and tolls.
NB I-83: York, Harrisburg
SB I-83: “York”(as a secondary), Baltimore(primary and ALL SB milage signs).
York and Harrisburg are close enough in size it doesn’t make sense for Maryland to skip over York. And York comes first.
Traveled on I 83 from I 695 to US 30 in York. A trip from Florida to my Aunts house in Reading Pa. Basically in York you pick up US 30 west to Gettysburg and East to Lancaster and Reading via US 222. For most People in Southeast pa
It's an alternative for the Philly Airport to go to Baltimore Airport. Also points south on I 95.
The Interstate 80’s are all about bouncing back! I-81, I-83 = Eastern US, I-82, I-84 = Western US, and so on.
I-84 also bounces, as there's an eastern I-84
mostly east except one 84 and one 86 from here on out
Before watching this, I thought that I-83 would be perfectly signed (despite being in PA) and then I saw that Hazleton sign. At least I-86 and I-90 is perfectly signed in PA, but those episodes are a long way off.
Hey, Todd! Another great video! Not from Maryland, however I agree with what you think the control cities ought to be for I-83.
Side note: Excited for you to get to I-90 & I-94! As a native Wisconsinite, it's been too long since you last covered an interstate in Wisconsin (I-43).
90 and 94 are 2 of my favorites, definitely looking forward to that!
Can you combine bot interstate 84s in 1 video. It would seem pretty interesting
the first 84 is pretty long though, and 77 was done in 2 parts, and is 150 miles shorter.
I hope he will do a marathon Interstate 2-99 in one sitting.
@@Nemofishman While western 84 is long, there won't be many control cities, though. I expect western 84 and eastern 84 will each be 1 video.
I hope he combines the 2 I-87s in one video. The NC one is super short not worthy of a separate video.
@@dvferyance yea and the i-86 & i-88s
I think that we can blame former Pennsylvania House of Representatives Majority Leader Todd A. Eachus for the Hazleton signs.
Todd on Todd crime
What's funny is I78 goes directly into Manhattan, New York City but barely signs it in Pennsylvania, but i95 which kinda goes around to the Bronx, i95 section in Maryland has plenty of proper signing for New York and NYC....
True, but I’m guessing the Maryland signage is referring to the NJT route and not 95 through Philly.
Even though Philly should be signed on 95
1:50 Interestingly, I looked up I-83 on Wikipedia and Google Maps, because I figured maybe that was just called exit 8 because they were counting miles from the originally-planned interchange with I-95 (which obviously never came to be, as other commenters mentioned). But... nope! It is indeed Maryland being sequential within the city of Baltimore itself; once I-83 leaves the city limits, the mileage starts to affect the exit numbers, but the exit numbers never actually seem to match up with the actual mileage.
Interstate 83 in Maryland is Surrounded on trees on both sides making for a nice drive. But interstate 83 in Pennsylvania is old obsolete and narrow. The exit ramps are too tight making it challenging to get on and off.
I remember 78 between Harrisburg and Allentown also being like that.
84 and it's absolutely terrible bridges gets nearer....
Released a day early awesome! But what will I do tomorrow now?
Watch it again! lol
I’d sign 81 North for Allentown and Wilkes-Barre. OK with holding off on New York until meeting I-78. 81 South is a curious one. Carlisle doesn’t make much sense directionally. Probably just State College is best there and then add back Carlisle at the 81/322 split.
No. Pittsburgh, Roanoke, or Hagerstown
@@mxderate Certainly. We beat up 81 mainline pretty good, so I was just thinking what the sign should be on 83 here. And that point nothing for 81 South makes sense, as it’s probably only local traffic and 322 State College traffic taking that.
Reason why Hazleton is signed so much on i81 and i83 is due to the amount of warehouses and factorys there and it's the town closest to the i81 and i80 interchange
Finally, Pennsylvania does something decent for once.
Where? Not here!
ehh for the most part
City Hall is on Fayette St. - so probably that
I 83 was originally supposed to extend from Baltimore to Greensboro, NC following US Rt 29 through Charlottesville, Lynchburg, & Danville.
Oh interesting!
I think we should extend 83 to either state college or Williamsport, and then take over the section of 99 between there and Corning, NY. 99 South of state college can be called 976 as its purpose is to get 76 traffic to Altoona and State College
This will allow 476 to be part of the “interstate 99” that Delaware wants to built on the Delmarva peninsula, which should happen because 476 being an off branch of 76 makes no sense
Remember, I-83 replaces all of US 111 that also connects Baltimore and Harrisburg, PA. We all agree to sign Harrisburg for northbound and Baltimore for southbound. However, for me, in both directions, I'll also sign York, PA as a secondary just above the primary. Therefore,:
Northbound I-83:
-York, PA | •Harrisburg, PA
•Harrisburg, PA
Southbound I-83:
-York, PA | •Baltimore
•Baltimore
ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE:
Eastbound I-83/I-695 MD:
•Harrisburg, PA
>Philadelphia (not NYC)
Westbound I-83/I-695 MD:
•Downtown Baltimore
>Washington, DC
Solid
Always interesting. Thanks Todd.
Thanks!
Exit 8 in MD and MD exits in general: I have to wonder if these were numbered based on the intended mileage of 83 instead of the actual mileage. Lots of freeway cancellations in Baltimore.
That could be too, but Fayette Street is listed as Exit 1.
Great video as usual. Hey, maybe when you get to 5k subs you can do a Q&A. ;)
Good idea! Yeah I should do something for that
Great video! Some comments on I-83. In downtown Harrisburg I-83 is actually signed for the airport and Hershey which kinda makes sense from downtown. They recently redid the Freeway from I-283 to I-81 and plan to do I-283/Us 322 to PA 581. Years ago I-83 NB from I-283 interchange in all directions was signed as Lewiston/Hazleton which made no sense. Thankfully they changed it to the much more famous State College which I think is fine as a dual Control City Maybe with Allentown or Wilkes-barre. Also I-83 NB from US. 322 is signed for State College/Carlisle interestingly which I think is cool as coming from Hershey there are several roads that bring you up to I-81/I-78 Pa-581 is signed for Gettysburg/Camp hill even though it’s literally the next exit. maybe Gettysburg/Carlisle or Gettysburg/Hagerstown would be better? Great video, glad you finally got to my home interstate (I have many memories from it).
Great info, thanks!
I 83 history Pennsylvania. Another pre Interstate planned route in Pa. Started in 1950 replacing US 111 from the Borough of Lemoyne at US 11 and Pa SR 581 to Maryland state line. Basically building a bypass around York. The capital beltway section was finished around 1971 including the Eisenhower Interchange with US 322 and I 283. The Interchange was pictured on the official Pennsylvania State map 1972 1973 edition. Being built in 1950s the expressway is narrow with a Jersey Barrier in the center median.
Great info, thanks!
Where's I 84
One in the northeast, one in the northwest
K
Dla.. Defense logistics agency
83 was originally supposed to go through Fells Point and terminate at/interchange with 95 just south of the O’Donnell St interchange. Ramp stubs for that interchange still exist and are quite visible in aerial photos.
How much of an impact to surrounding neighborhoods would have the I-83 to I-95 connection had?
I agree with not finishing it, a freeway through Fells Point would have been awful.
and I imagine the mileage numbering system for 83 was set based off that original southern endpoint, and was never changed afterward.
I don’t think there are any major changes I’d make here. Along the 83/695 “concurrency”, I’d sign Philadelphia along with Towson, at least N/E. Also, it’s a bit off U.S. 322 E (via U.S. 422), but Lebanon could be listed.
Interstate 84 yea
Gonna be cool!
Years ago there was talk about extending I-83 to Buffalo but I doubt it will ever happen.
I could see extending it to Rochester up route 15, I-86 and I-390. but there would have to be major upgrades to 147 going towards I-80.
I think the more likely scenario is that I-99 will extend up to Rochester when the section between Lawrenceville and Bellefonte in Pennsylvania is complete, which is totally messed up. I-99, along with I-97 are among the weirdest interstate highways in the system for different reasons. I-99, specifically is a rule-breaker of American interstate standards as it is west of I-81 and east of I-97, and the number was proposed by Bud Schuster for personal reasons. I-97 is also weird as it doesn't connect to any other two-digit interstates and is only within one county. I-83, ironically enough, could be used to solve both these oddities by taking over I-97 south of Baltimore and I-99 north of Williamsport, Pennsylvania, and then renumber I-99 an extension of I-180 between Williamsport and Bellefonte and I-580, I-170, or I-776 south of Bellefonte. I bet Todd will have some gripes with I-99 when he goes over it and its control cities.
@@kcore1427 I agree about I-99, it's the road to nowhere. I-580 or 776 would be more fitting. I-99 could be used in Maine or some place in the deep northeast. Logically I-83 to Rochester would be more logical. Somehow I believe politics is behind I-99.
As For I-97, that's another headache.
The moment we Baltimorians have been waiting for since the I-70 vid!
This is the Charm City episode!
Jones Falls Expressway Unbuilt. Since I 95 changed from the early alignments so did I 70 and I 83. I 95 would take a more southern route rather then a central Baltimore route on earlier alignments. The current ending is about where it was originally supposed to end. A proposed extension was canceled in 1982. You can see the ghost stub ramps of where I 70 ,I 83 and other Expressway would have ended on I 95. Google Maps Satellite.
Maryland signs New York via Delaware Memorial Bridge and New Jersey Turnpike rather than going into Philly. Wilmington area you see Philly signs.
Great info, thanks!
Finally going to New England next, wonder what you talk about all those suburbs signage
Actually we’re going back to the Pacific Northwest first
I checked it out and DLA is the Susquehanna Distribution Center - Defense Logistics Agency. Go figure how it warrants being a control city!
Lol
Good stuff Todd! :)
I don't really have much to say this time tbh, but it is cool to see a road that has signs for my home town at the top end of it being covered.
Also, I can tell you that the capitol building is not in the shot at 6:59. It's obscured by all the taller buildings you can see at 4:35.
99% of I-83
Mostly use this road for Gettysburg
I used it to get to DC to bypass the NJ Turnpike and Philly from upstate NY
Which 84 is being done first?
West
i take this to work everyday. love to see it on here!!