I actually use one of these, I mount it to an EOS M6 Mark II through a viltrox speed booster. I found it works well for the real estate photography I take, inside and out. If anyone does want to use filters with it, you can buy the 22 mm version that's a little cheaper, it has a flat front element and conventional filter thread, but it is quite a big filter size so you'd probably need new filters anyway. The reason it costs so much is effectively it's a large format lens with the mount for a full frame lens, by shifting it you're choosing which part of the gigantic image circle you're going to apply to the sensor. I will readily admit that digitally faking it is probably more efficient in the long run, and I can't say for sure I'm going to drag this heavy lens out on every single shoot, but mostly it was curiosity and a little extra money in my pocket that motivated the purchase. I've been pretty happy with the results from it, but I don't have to usually work at the extremes of the shift range. Since I use it through a speed booster I suppose that even with the lens stopped down I have an inherently brighter image, although the few shoots I've worked with it so far the exteriors have been in relatively bright conditions, and if I ever need to brighten up the interior I tend to want to take longer exposures rather than open the lens up, depth of field isn't really a thing in real estate photography. I haven't really used the tilting function for that same reason.
Yes, it effectively is an extreme UWA 6x6 lens, which is quite impressive. You honestly have to try out tilting as well, it really is awesome. With buildings, what you could do, is step to one side of the building, and tilt the lens to have everythign in focus from left to right. Add a bit of shift to correct the verticals, and you have opened up a whole new, unique kind of real estate photography.
You’re right about the digital being more efficient and it’s the main reason why I’ve never pulled the trigger and bought it. I can just rent it when I need it, but since I primarily do architecture and urban scenes, I always have a nagging feeling that I’m the intended market.
@@DubsBrown You are part of the intended market :). However, renting it when you need it is just fine, especially if you do not need it a lot. And from a businss point of view, it probably makes sense too :).
Weathersealing would actually involve making the shift en tilt mechanisms weathersealed too, which may have been asked a bit much for in 2009 :). My most used f-stop with this lens is F/6.3, where it really is, my specimen anyway, sharp from corner to corner. I was absolutely blown away by its sharpness on my 5D II back then, and I still am on my EOS R :). I had a 14-24 F/2.8 Nikkor prior to this lens, with adapter for Canon at the same time, and I actually found that the TS-E 17L, back then, was sharper than the Nikkor, even though the latter was praised all around everywhere as the best UWA available, zoom or prime. As to vignetting and flare: in real life it is not at all as bad as it looks here either, or as you describe it IMO, compard to other lenses you have reviewed. At the time it was released, it was seen as excellent by reviewers in all aspects, and I personally still think it is :). Do note that the 17 mm really is equivalent to a 9.6 mm lens taking shifts into account, and by that standard it is absolutely awesome. A final note on tilt: I honestly think you should experiment with tilt more, it is not only useful for product photography, it is great for landscapes and for architectural photograpy too. F.e., you do not always want to photograph a building straight from the front middle, but maybe quite off centre for composition, and tilt is extremely useful to still get the entire front of a building sharp in DoF as a result. I challenge you to try some of this out, I honestly think you may find some interesting uses for it as a result :). In short, I do think that you actually short changed this lens, to use your own words :), even though I liked your review :). I made some of my best ever photographs with it :). I'd suggest you check the review of this lens at Opticallimits.com (formerly photozone.de), to see what they have to say. And Klaus is very, very critical when it comes to lenses :). There is no other lens like it available, having tilt and shift, and that FL. I am looking forward to what Canon comes up with with the TS-R 14L as a result :). Kind regards, Wim P.S.: For a specialized lens like this, which is never made in large numbers, or sold in large numbers for that matter, IMO its price is very, very reasonable. Yes, it is a lot of money, but for the type of lens it is not expensive IMO :).
As the image quality clearly degrades when shifted, it could be interesting to compare the image quality by shifting with the lens vs post production, especially at wider apertures
I think we already know the answer because almost no manufactorer is making Tilt Shift lens now. There are very difficult to design, very expensive and the image quality falls apart quickly when using tilt or shift function. All these for something that can be easily achieved in post production softwares (which also get much better now) , it's just not worth it.
When noticing the fall off from shifting, I think it’s important to know whether if that image is better than a perspective corrected image in post processing. That’s why I would buy it.
Canon's tilt-shift lenses are the biggest reason I use Canon cameras. I own this one, the 24mm Mk II, and the newer 50mm. Interestingly, the newer the lens, the sharper it is. I wouldn't be surprised if the Canon 50mm TS-E is their sharpest 50mm lens! Probably the most useful TS-E (for architecture anyway) is 24mm. It's much easier to compose without wide angle distortion inherent in ultra-wide angle lenses. That said, the 17 has its place and is extremely handy to have. I am very much looking forward to the rumored RF mount 24mm tilt-shift lens, especially if it has AF (as is rumored). I would expect incredible performance from such a lens.
Hey Chris, one comment on the Video - i would really like to see live view capture while you are shifting and or tilting, seeing side by side pictures is nice but to me - someone that never had a TS lense himself, it would be REALLY neat to see a video capture of how a scene transforms while you tilt / shift .
let me enlighten you. it will not look smooth unless you rigged up some kind of rube goldberg screw turning device that can operate on a very reductive gear ratio.
on top of it being jerky as all hell your subject would go out of frame. So as well as the hypothetical low torque winder rigged to the earth, you would also need someone to adjust the tripod .. it gets a little messy after this.. Just "doing it" would look balls
@@sharpskilz im just interested out of curiosity how the motion transforms the picture, i dont talk in videography just curiosity of interest to what i would see as a photographer when i turn the knobs thats why i think it would be interesting as a short clip in the video
I hired this lens a couple of years ago. It did the job. I put the fact that I couldnt get usable panoramas with it down to user error. It was an extremely solid device, but I was terrified of smashing that front element. Ive since used the longer TS-e lenses and they are great.. this one is extremely niche, not sure I personally have a use for a wide angle lens that doesnt show distortion. Probably great for shooting tall buildings in portrait orientation.
you finding that you need to stop down significantly when you are sifting is very important, and often omitted by other reviewers of shifting lenses that don't even inform the corresponding aperture. Also tnx for going to the length of providing us with the shifted and unshifted apertures.
I wonder if the adapter makes the corners even worse. I have used it on the Metabones III and IV and there is a difference in sharpness, even though it is just a hole.
Owner of a TS-E 24mm II here. It's my favorite lens. One of my gear dealers offered to me (many years ago) an used TS-E 17mm, for something like... $600, I remember... Heavy regrets for not buying that...
As an old view-camera user, I understand the reasons for shifting in architecture photos. All the same, straightened lines are fundamentally unnatural, and in many cases (from a visual expectation point of view), parallel lines that obviously converge in the real world are distracting. Of course, corporate clients are interested in perfection more than reality -- and shooting their shiny buildings with straight lines seem to keep them happy. Swinging and tilting, on the other hand, helps me fit (or unfit) a narrow focal plane -- and a TS lens is probably most useful for 'impossible' focusing situations.
My favourite lens. I have had one for about 10 years so I have straight up and down trees in landscapes. (TS24 too). Not mentioned is - the image declines at maximum shift of 12mm. If possible I limit shift to 10mm and its way better. Rarely do you need to go to max. Max in others is less. eg vs Laowa 15. Also not mentioned is if you have to correct bowed trees, a non shift lens corrected results in way less resolution in corners - thus apples to apples TS17 is better. Lastly the tests in video are close in - the ts17 has field curvature such that you need to focus off centre to maximize depth for landscape. This does not show up in the review.
This lens review is a bit bitter-sweet however I appreciate the sample images and honesty. The comments are mixed as well my addition to this review is I would much rather do it right in camera than spend time in post. I'm not as fluent with imaging software as some others AND I don't want to spend time with another learning curve IF I can correct in camera. Must be left overs from my film and darkroom days. I found this review interesting and unbiased thank you for that.
After seeing your review I'm pretty interested in renting this lens for a mural photograph, my other idea is to just climb up a tall ladder and use a regular wide angle lens. I'd say the tilt shift is slightly less dangerous.
There is filter mount manufactured by NISI filters for Canon TS-17 with large CP filter and 150x230mm gradient filters and ND filters.Also if you want to use maximum potential of this lance you need Sunwayfoto bracket to lock the lance to tripod instead of camera body, on that way you eliminate parallax and can stitch the shifted photos perfectly.By photographing a tall building or trees as long you take pictures from maximum tripod hight you will need less shift to correct perspective sometimes difference between 1,8 m or 2,5m hight can be huge in overall image expecialy if you work paid job.Finally with Laowa Magic Shift adapter for Sony cameras you can create "DAS" Dual Axis Shift and effectively got 17mmx1,4 =23.8mm lance with 3x3 =9 images and on my Sony 7RM3 equivalent of 200MP file you can shift around 6-7mm left and right top and bottom raw and around 10mm middle row due to lance curvature. Perfect for interior shots with high ceilings .And with Sony 1,5 Optical crop you get 35.7 mm lance with max DAS of 10 mm.The key is in the bracket and tripod hight
Christopher, I find your comments about price in these reviews interesting... Is your audience primarily photography enthusiasts? Professionals who use lenses like this would not find the price "astonishingly high"-pretty much all of the tilt-shift lenses are over $2k each. Of course if you're 'only' an enthusiast (nothing wrong with that!), then the the price of most professional lenses would seem very high. I would love to see native E-mount, X-mount, GF mount, etc... tilt-shift lenses from 3rd parties like Sigma. It would open the door to perspective control lenses to a lot more people.
Sorry, Christopher. Though I'm a subscriber to your channel and really appreciate your reviews, I think you gave a bit of unfair short shrift to this lens. Perhaps you'd like to check out John Greengo's excellent tutorial on the use of tilt-shift/perspective control lenses and have another go-round with one or two of them. Cheers, William.
I'd be interested to see a comparison between this lens and the Laowa 12mm + Magic Shift Converter - Obviously you don't get the tilt capabilities but it might be a better option for some.
Funny you say that. I used to be a Pentax shooter, but gave up on them when they moved to consumer cameras and lenses only, back in the analog era. So I decided to go more mainstream when I went dslr in 2005, and went for Canon because the UI gelled better with me than Nikon did, because I could actually MF with Canon but not with Nikon (I have a weird eye problem), and foremost because of their tilt-shift lenses and specialist macro lenses (MP-E). Never looked back since, especially as they only have been improving their TS-E range and optical IQ, and bokeh. Currently I own TS-E17L, TS-E 24L and TS-E 135L. The latter I got by traing in the TS-E 45 and TS-E 90, which were mostly used for macro anyway :). I do still plan on addign the TS-E 50L and TS-E 90L as well, or their TS-R replacements, at some stage. Tilt-shift lenses are magical, especially ones as good as these.
@@wimg.2377 wow nice collection there....i wonder how the 135 looks , whats the purpose of this lens and what can be achieved. I always see them in the catalogs but never seen them perform.
@@NikosPer The 135 is a tilt-shift (semi-)macro lens. The advantage being that you can indeed tilt the plane of focus for optimum sharpness, en to crate macrophotography that would take 30 or more stacked images and a lot of PP to do the same. I have created several semi-macro images where the plane of focus is diagonal to the field of view, and that is wonderful, because it pulls you in even more. Imagine a line of a few flowers, which runs from bottom left to top right, with a lightbeam hitting them at exactly that same angle, and having just that line sharp in the image. Not only is it stunning, but it also gives an incredble 3D effect. The flowe heads just seenm to pop right out of the image. And in order to do that with a non-TS lens, you'd need at least 30 images stacked, and a lot of PP-work to get it to look similar at best. Why only similar? Because of the stunning bokeh of these lenses. The OOF transitions of these lenses are essentially better than any other lenses I have ever seen, even if some do come close. And that at any aperture, which no other lens can do. As I am a slightly crazy person ;), I tend to use lenses for purposes other than they were meant for as well, and the TS-E 135L is great as a portrait lens too :). HTH, kind regards, Wim
@@wimg.2377 second that “nice collection.” I keep looking for a good preowned TS-E lens but most people that have it want it so they are harder to find discounted. Now I just rent but one of these days (if they ever release a mark II prob) I’ll just face the music and buy em. It’ll probably be a good decade before they ever make an RF version.
@@DubsBrown Canon never made a lot of these lenses, so from that PoV it may be a little harder to find them, indeed. Those who know them and know how to work generally hold on to them :). Over here it is not too bad, the TS-E 45 and TS-E 90, both non-L, are relatively easy to come by at the moment, although the tilting and shifting mechanism is not as nice as the one with the newer lenses. Essentially this means that you need to have a small Philips (size 0) screwdriver with you to turn the tilt 90 degrees at times. Same fo rthe old TS-E 24L Mk I. All of them are great lenses though, although I used the 24 and the 90 most. BTW, I did get both my TS-E24L II and TS-E 135L (barely) used :), only the TS-E 17L I got new, when it came out actually. At the time I got the TS-E 17L I sold the older TS-E 24L Mk I to alleviate the pain my wallet felt, and that I actually did buy used. I knew I would get the new TS-E 24L II some day as well anyway, and at the time I still had the TS-E 45 and TS-E 90. Canon actually has a TS-R 14 F/4L AF and TS-R 24 F/3.5L AF on their list of lenses on their roadmap to be relased within the next couple of years, for the R-series of cameras IOW. I think the fact that they will have AF as well, will likely make them siginificantly more expensive than current options. I will very likely get the TS-R 14L to start with when it becomes availble. I am sure it will be at least as earth shatteringly good as the TS-E 17L when it was released. You could try these guys, if you are interested in a TS-E 45 or a TS-E 90: www.kamera-express.nl/product/12368885/canon-ts-e-90mm-f-2-8-occasion www.kamera-express.nl/canon-ts-e-45mm-f-2-8-ew-79bii-zonnekap-occ If you do, and need some assistance, let me know, I'll gladly help out. Kind regards, Wim
Most of my photography is architecture and I covet a tilt shift but the price is too high, would like to see a review of the Samyang 24mm ts lens if you can do it sometime, it’s a third of the price.
thanks for the good review. I guess it makes more sense using an extreme wide angle like 12 mm to make pictures and crop them, to get the same as on this 17 mm lens. Obviously, you won't be able covering the whole picture as you would do with the 17 mm totally shifted. Would be interesting how its performing tilted - I would use it for landscapes tilted, but not shifted.
I think this was a pretty good performance for such a wide tilt/shift lens, but yeah, the price is a bit high considering the age. Laowa just came out with a 15mm, but the price is high considering that it has no tilt (landscape photographers often use the tilt rather than focus stacking) and no electronic coupling. Samyang's 24mm was apparently not great, same with Nikon's 19mm. There's a rumour that Canon is making an RF version, 14mm with autofocus, we'll see if that materializes. Sony needs to make a wide one of these that can take filters, and if it only has shift that's fine.
Where did you get the idea Nikon’s 19mm isn’t great? It is a superb lens, even on high resolution bodies. Don’t believe me? Read reviews by Thom Hogan and, if you can stand the dirty, violated feeling it will leave you with, Ken Rockwell.
@@grossieone3683 I'm not sure to be honest. I checked a reviewer I trust (ruclips.net/video/rWOkhOpzBlk/видео.html) and it seems to put in a good performance; I stand corrected. I was going off of something a different reviewer said, but I can't remember who it was.
I would reeeeeally like Sony to make a modern G-Master equivalent of the Canon tilt shift range. Weather proofing, some sort of filter system, etc. Canon have little to no competition atm and these feel a tad dated for the price.
I really like this t&s effect by the lens and not in post, but i will and can only afford an t&s lens by Rokinon for example. Specially because of this "niche" using Situations
Just wait a while and get a used one. Even the old TS-E 24L Mk I is way better in real life than the tests seem to point out. This is why it was used mostly by professionals :). What a lot of reviews do not show, f.e., with the exception so far of Christopher's review here, is the excellent bokeh of TS-E lenses, and that is true for all of them, and at any aperture, with or without tilt and/or shift. Transitions to OOF areas are just absolutely amazing.
I work for an architecture firm in Los Angeles and manage subcontracted photographers. I worked with one last week and he was still using a mirrored camera and I was surprised. He told me he’s been testing the tilt shift lens that you reviewed in this video and that it’s much cleaner on a mirrored cameras and for some reason, on a mirrorless camera the images appear soft as you pointed out. This is from his mouse not mine I don’t own one of these lenses.
I've owned this lens and it amazing! But I find an ultra wide zoom like a 12-24mm Sigma to be far more practical. Keep the camera level and open wide. Then crop and vertical lines will be vertical. Depending on how much you will crop, it is sometimes worth shooting vertical, and cropping to horizontal.
As you mention, it's a very expensive purchase for what we can now fix in post-processing software. You are using a 45 MP camera (R5), more than enough pixels to account for any processing degradation. Compare that with the trade-offs in optical imaging quality degradation at f/4. I'll take the software solution.
Realistically though you're never using a lens like this at f/4 anyway-these things live at f/8-11 in real-world use, regardless of image quality-so that's pretty moot, and you're severely underestimating the difference between careful optical correction compared to digital stretching. Software sure can do a fine job for small corrections, but for putting together the kinds of files these lenses are meant for-your 300mp multi-stitch HDR panoramas, your 500mp-1gp government archive records, etc-there's just too much for the software to cope with cleanly and optical correction does end up delivering a far better result. But also, two-and-a-bit grand _isn't_ an expensive purchase for the type of work these lenses are intended for (in fact it's downright _cheap_ compared to some comparable tools), so it's pretty safe to say if you consider the price tag expensive then you're plain not working in the kind of market these products are built for anyway. It's kind of like saying a 600mm f/4 is overpriced and pointless because you can just stick a 70-300 on a m4/3 camera or high-res APS-C and crop in... the results aren't the same and that just isn't the kind of market these things are meant for.
@@sebastianmatthews1663 Agreed. In addition, to do a PP tilt off the horizontal or vertical axis, you need to do a lot of stacking with carefully adjusted individual images to get it right. And as I mentioned elsewhere over here: you will not get the incredibly nice roll-on and roll-off with any lens like you do with the TS-Es.
@@wimg.2377 Absolutely not! I’m sure it’ is a marvellous contraption, but it’s abilities will be lost on 99.99% of the population, so it has no place in my kit bag!
@@tbrown2892 Sorry, not in my case. Have been shooting for too long with film before getting into digital 😂. I always have a camera with interchangeable lenses with me ....
3:45 Since it is an EF lens, you can get the slide in filter EF-RF adapter if you need filters.
Incredible lens by the time it released, still reasonably good for most professional works
Not just reasonably good. If you know what you are doing, it actually still is excellent.
I actually use one of these, I mount it to an EOS M6 Mark II through a viltrox speed booster. I found it works well for the real estate photography I take, inside and out. If anyone does want to use filters with it, you can buy the 22 mm version that's a little cheaper, it has a flat front element and conventional filter thread, but it is quite a big filter size so you'd probably need new filters anyway.
The reason it costs so much is effectively it's a large format lens with the mount for a full frame lens, by shifting it you're choosing which part of the gigantic image circle you're going to apply to the sensor. I will readily admit that digitally faking it is probably more efficient in the long run, and I can't say for sure I'm going to drag this heavy lens out on every single shoot, but mostly it was curiosity and a little extra money in my pocket that motivated the purchase. I've been pretty happy with the results from it, but I don't have to usually work at the extremes of the shift range. Since I use it through a speed booster I suppose that even with the lens stopped down I have an inherently brighter image, although the few shoots I've worked with it so far the exteriors have been in relatively bright conditions, and if I ever need to brighten up the interior I tend to want to take longer exposures rather than open the lens up, depth of field isn't really a thing in real estate photography. I haven't really used the tilting function for that same reason.
Yes, it effectively is an extreme UWA 6x6 lens, which is quite impressive.
You honestly have to try out tilting as well, it really is awesome. With buildings, what you could do, is step to one side of the building, and tilt the lens to have everythign in focus from left to right. Add a bit of shift to correct the verticals, and you have opened up a whole new, unique kind of real estate photography.
You’re right about the digital being more efficient and it’s the main reason why I’ve never pulled the trigger and bought it. I can just rent it when I need it, but since I primarily do architecture and urban scenes, I always have a nagging feeling that I’m the intended market.
@@DubsBrown You are part of the intended market :).
However, renting it when you need it is just fine, especially if you do not need it a lot. And from a businss point of view, it probably makes sense too :).
Weathersealing would actually involve making the shift en tilt mechanisms weathersealed too, which may have been asked a bit much for in 2009 :).
My most used f-stop with this lens is F/6.3, where it really is, my specimen anyway, sharp from corner to corner. I was absolutely blown away by its sharpness on my 5D II back then, and I still am on my EOS R :).
I had a 14-24 F/2.8 Nikkor prior to this lens, with adapter for Canon at the same time, and I actually found that the TS-E 17L, back then, was sharper than the Nikkor, even though the latter was praised all around everywhere as the best UWA available, zoom or prime.
As to vignetting and flare: in real life it is not at all as bad as it looks here either, or as you describe it IMO, compard to other lenses you have reviewed. At the time it was released, it was seen as excellent by reviewers in all aspects, and I personally still think it is :).
Do note that the 17 mm really is equivalent to a 9.6 mm lens taking shifts into account, and by that standard it is absolutely awesome.
A final note on tilt: I honestly think you should experiment with tilt more, it is not only useful for product photography, it is great for landscapes and for architectural photograpy too. F.e., you do not always want to photograph a building straight from the front middle, but maybe quite off centre for composition, and tilt is extremely useful to still get the entire front of a building sharp in DoF as a result. I challenge you to try some of this out, I honestly think you may find some interesting uses for it as a result :).
In short, I do think that you actually short changed this lens, to use your own words :), even though I liked your review :). I made some of my best ever photographs with it :).
I'd suggest you check the review of this lens at Opticallimits.com (formerly photozone.de), to see what they have to say. And Klaus is very, very critical when it comes to lenses :).
There is no other lens like it available, having tilt and shift, and that FL. I am looking forward to what Canon comes up with with the TS-R 14L as a result :).
Kind regards, Wim
P.S.: For a specialized lens like this, which is never made in large numbers, or sold in large numbers for that matter, IMO its price is very, very reasonable. Yes, it is a lot of money, but for the type of lens it is not expensive IMO :).
As the image quality clearly degrades when shifted, it could be interesting to compare the image quality by shifting with the lens vs post production, especially at wider apertures
yeah, also i'd be interested in image quality if you only shift 1/3 or 2/3 of the max. distance.
I think we already know the answer because almost no manufactorer is making Tilt Shift lens now. There are very difficult to design, very expensive and the image quality falls apart quickly when using tilt or shift function. All these for something that can be easily achieved in post production softwares (which also get much better now) , it's just not worth it.
@@oscarshen6855 How do you want to achieve tilt in post production. You can't change fokus in post
@@jonaslinter still you can imitate the miniature effect in post. product photography is a relatively small field
@@oscarshen6855 ???
That's utter nonsense. You clearly have never used a tilt-shift lens.
Excellent review, I would like to also see a 24mm T/S review.
That would be nice, and, BTW, it is even better :).
When noticing the fall off from shifting, I think it’s important to know whether if that image is better than a perspective corrected image in post processing.
That’s why I would buy it.
It looks a lot sharper than the Soviet medium format wideangle I adapted with a Tilt adapter to my Z6, that's for sure! Impressive looking lens.
Canon's tilt-shift lenses are the biggest reason I use Canon cameras. I own this one, the 24mm Mk II, and the newer 50mm. Interestingly, the newer the lens, the sharper it is. I wouldn't be surprised if the Canon 50mm TS-E is their sharpest 50mm lens! Probably the most useful TS-E (for architecture anyway) is 24mm. It's much easier to compose without wide angle distortion inherent in ultra-wide angle lenses. That said, the 17 has its place and is extremely handy to have. I am very much looking forward to the rumored RF mount 24mm tilt-shift lens, especially if it has AF (as is rumored). I would expect incredible performance from such a lens.
No surprise as to why it doesn't have weather sealing. Thanks for the review. It really is a great lens.
Hey Chris, one comment on the Video - i would really like to see live view capture while you are shifting and or tilting, seeing side by side pictures is nice but to me - someone that never had a TS lense himself, it would be REALLY neat to see a video capture of how a scene transforms while you tilt / shift .
let me enlighten you. it will not look smooth unless you rigged up some kind of rube goldberg screw turning device that can operate on a very reductive gear ratio.
on top of it being jerky as all hell your subject would go out of frame. So as well as the hypothetical low torque winder rigged to the earth, you would also need someone to adjust the tripod .. it gets a little messy after this.. Just "doing it" would look balls
@@sharpskilz im just interested out of curiosity how the motion transforms the picture, i dont talk in videography just curiosity of interest to what i would see as a photographer when i turn the knobs thats why i think it would be interesting as a short clip in the video
@@Axonteer if you trun the knobs the subject will go out of frame.
turn
I hired this lens a couple of years ago. It did the job. I put the fact that I couldnt get usable panoramas with it down to user error. It was an extremely solid device, but I was terrified of smashing that front element. Ive since used the longer TS-e lenses and they are great.. this one is extremely niche, not sure I personally have a use for a wide angle lens that doesnt show distortion. Probably great for shooting tall buildings in portrait orientation.
you finding that you need to stop down significantly when you are sifting is very important, and often omitted by other reviewers of shifting lenses that don't even inform the corresponding aperture. Also tnx for going to the length of providing us with the shifted and unshifted apertures.
Another superb lens review by the master!
"It will always be there, the darkness." It's like you can see into my heart.... 😭
I wonder if the adapter makes the corners even worse. I have used it on the Metabones III and IV and there is a difference in sharpness, even though it is just a hole.
Owner of a TS-E 24mm II here. It's my favorite lens. One of my gear dealers offered to me (many years ago) an used TS-E 17mm, for something like... $600, I remember... Heavy regrets for not buying that...
As an old view-camera user, I understand the reasons for shifting in architecture photos. All the same, straightened lines are fundamentally unnatural, and in many cases (from a visual expectation point of view), parallel lines that obviously converge in the real world are distracting. Of course, corporate clients are interested in perfection more than reality -- and shooting their shiny buildings with straight lines seem to keep them happy. Swinging and tilting, on the other hand, helps me fit (or unfit) a narrow focal plane -- and a TS lens is probably most useful for 'impossible' focusing situations.
My favourite lens. I have had one for about 10 years so I have straight up and down trees in landscapes. (TS24 too). Not mentioned is - the image declines at maximum shift of 12mm. If possible I limit shift to 10mm and its way better. Rarely do you need to go to max. Max in others is less. eg vs Laowa 15.
Also not mentioned is if you have to correct bowed trees, a non shift lens corrected results in way less resolution in corners - thus apples to apples TS17 is better.
Lastly the tests in video are close in - the ts17 has field curvature such that you need to focus off centre to maximize depth for landscape. This does not show up in the review.
This lens review is a bit bitter-sweet however I appreciate the sample images and honesty. The comments are mixed as well my addition to this review is I would much rather do it right in camera than spend time in post. I'm not as fluent with imaging software as some others AND I don't want to spend time with another learning curve IF I can correct in camera. Must be left overs from my film and darkroom days. I found this review interesting and unbiased thank you for that.
I assume it's hard to weather seal the tilt and shift mechanism, so a weather sealing gasket might be pointless
Exactly.
After seeing your review I'm pretty interested in renting this lens for a mural photograph, my other idea is to just climb up a tall ladder and use a regular wide angle lens.
I'd say the tilt shift is slightly less dangerous.
Hi Christopher, excellent review, I would like to also see a 24mm T/S review, thanks in advanced.
There is filter mount manufactured by NISI filters for Canon TS-17 with large CP filter and 150x230mm gradient filters and ND filters.Also if you want to use maximum potential of this lance you need Sunwayfoto bracket to lock the lance to tripod instead of camera body, on that way you eliminate parallax and can stitch the shifted photos perfectly.By photographing a tall building or trees as long you take pictures from maximum tripod hight you will need less shift to correct perspective sometimes difference between 1,8 m or 2,5m hight can be huge in overall image expecialy if you work paid job.Finally with Laowa Magic Shift adapter for Sony cameras you can create "DAS" Dual Axis Shift and effectively got 17mmx1,4 =23.8mm lance with 3x3 =9 images and on my Sony 7RM3 equivalent of 200MP file you can shift around
6-7mm left and right top and bottom raw and around 10mm middle row due to lance curvature.
Perfect for interior shots with high ceilings .And with Sony 1,5 Optical crop you get 35.7 mm lance with max DAS of 10 mm.The key is in the bracket and tripod hight
Emergency shift photography should become a new genre :-)
Did you refocus on the outside corner when you shifted? Like most ultra wides, you need to and then let DoF cover the Centre.
Christopher, I find your comments about price in these reviews interesting... Is your audience primarily photography enthusiasts? Professionals who use lenses like this would not find the price "astonishingly high"-pretty much all of the tilt-shift lenses are over $2k each. Of course if you're 'only' an enthusiast (nothing wrong with that!), then the the price of most professional lenses would seem very high. I would love to see native E-mount, X-mount, GF mount, etc... tilt-shift lenses from 3rd parties like Sigma. It would open the door to perspective control lenses to a lot more people.
The lens's value for money is up to you. To me, certainly, the price of this lens is pretty eye-watering and I'm sure many others would agree
Sorry, Christopher.
Though I'm a subscriber to your channel and really appreciate your reviews, I think you gave a bit of unfair short shrift to this lens. Perhaps you'd like to check out John Greengo's excellent tutorial on the use of tilt-shift/perspective control lenses and have another go-round with one or two of them.
Cheers, William.
how come people dont watch this awesome tutorial video? And, there is one who disliked it as i write.
hi chris! wanna know, does 16-35mm lens when zoomed to 17mm has the same focal view as the 17mm tilt shift lens? thank you
I'd be interested to see a comparison between this lens and the Laowa 12mm + Magic Shift Converter - Obviously you don't get the tilt capabilities but it might be a better option for some.
Interesting comparision. An older shiftlens versus digital correction with a modern lens/camera combination.
I’ve rented this lens and I’ve been obsessed ever since. It everything I love and hate about Canon and why I can’t leave the brand.
Funny you say that. I used to be a Pentax shooter, but gave up on them when they moved to consumer cameras and lenses only, back in the analog era.
So I decided to go more mainstream when I went dslr in 2005, and went for Canon because the UI gelled better with me than Nikon did, because I could actually MF with Canon but not with Nikon (I have a weird eye problem), and foremost because of their tilt-shift lenses and specialist macro lenses (MP-E).
Never looked back since, especially as they only have been improving their TS-E range and optical IQ, and bokeh.
Currently I own TS-E17L, TS-E 24L and TS-E 135L. The latter I got by traing in the TS-E 45 and TS-E 90, which were mostly used for macro anyway :). I do still plan on addign the TS-E 50L and TS-E 90L as well, or their TS-R replacements, at some stage.
Tilt-shift lenses are magical, especially ones as good as these.
@@wimg.2377 wow nice collection there....i wonder how the 135 looks , whats the purpose of this lens and what can be achieved. I always see them in the catalogs but never seen them perform.
@@NikosPer The 135 is a tilt-shift (semi-)macro lens. The advantage being that you can indeed tilt the plane of focus for optimum sharpness, en to crate macrophotography that would take 30 or more stacked images and a lot of PP to do the same.
I have created several semi-macro images where the plane of focus is diagonal to the field of view, and that is wonderful, because it pulls you in even more.
Imagine a line of a few flowers, which runs from bottom left to top right, with a lightbeam hitting them at exactly that same angle, and having just that line sharp in the image.
Not only is it stunning, but it also gives an incredble 3D effect. The flowe heads just seenm to pop right out of the image. And in order to do that with a non-TS lens, you'd need at least 30 images stacked, and a lot of PP-work to get it to look similar at best. Why only similar? Because of the stunning bokeh of these lenses. The OOF transitions of these lenses are essentially better than any other lenses I have ever seen, even if some do come close. And that at any aperture, which no other lens can do.
As I am a slightly crazy person ;), I tend to use lenses for purposes other than they were meant for as well, and the TS-E 135L is great as a portrait lens too :).
HTH, kind regards, Wim
@@wimg.2377 second that “nice collection.” I keep looking for a good preowned TS-E lens but most people that have it want it so they are harder to find discounted. Now I just rent but one of these days (if they ever release a mark II prob) I’ll just face the music and buy em.
It’ll probably be a good decade before they ever make an RF version.
@@DubsBrown Canon never made a lot of these lenses, so from that PoV it may be a little harder to find them, indeed. Those who know them and know how to work generally hold on to them :).
Over here it is not too bad, the TS-E 45 and TS-E 90, both non-L, are relatively easy to come by at the moment, although the tilting and shifting mechanism is not as nice as the one with the newer lenses. Essentially this means that you need to have a small Philips (size 0) screwdriver with you to turn the tilt 90 degrees at times. Same fo rthe old TS-E 24L Mk I. All of them are great lenses though, although I used the 24 and the 90 most.
BTW, I did get both my TS-E24L II and TS-E 135L (barely) used :), only the TS-E 17L I got new, when it came out actually. At the time I got the TS-E 17L I sold the older TS-E 24L Mk I to alleviate the pain my wallet felt, and that I actually did buy used. I knew I would get the new TS-E 24L II some day as well anyway, and at the time I still had the TS-E 45 and TS-E 90.
Canon actually has a TS-R 14 F/4L AF and TS-R 24 F/3.5L AF on their list of lenses on their roadmap to be relased within the next couple of years, for the R-series of cameras IOW. I think the fact that they will have AF as well, will likely make them siginificantly more expensive than current options. I will very likely get the TS-R 14L to start with when it becomes availble. I am sure it will be at least as earth shatteringly good as the TS-E 17L when it was released.
You could try these guys, if you are interested in a TS-E 45 or a TS-E 90:
www.kamera-express.nl/product/12368885/canon-ts-e-90mm-f-2-8-occasion
www.kamera-express.nl/canon-ts-e-45mm-f-2-8-ew-79bii-zonnekap-occ
If you do, and need some assistance, let me know, I'll gladly help out.
Kind regards, Wim
Most of my photography is architecture and I covet a tilt shift but the price is too high, would like to see a review of the Samyang 24mm ts lens if you can do it sometime, it’s a third of the price.
thanks for the good review. I guess it makes more sense using an extreme wide angle like 12 mm to make pictures and crop them, to get the same as on this 17 mm lens. Obviously, you won't be able covering the whole picture as you would do with the 17 mm totally shifted.
Would be interesting how its performing tilted - I would use it for landscapes tilted, but not shifted.
Big fan sir. Love from India. ❤️
I think this was a pretty good performance for such a wide tilt/shift lens, but yeah, the price is a bit high considering the age. Laowa just came out with a 15mm, but the price is high considering that it has no tilt (landscape photographers often use the tilt rather than focus stacking) and no electronic coupling. Samyang's 24mm was apparently not great, same with Nikon's 19mm. There's a rumour that Canon is making an RF version, 14mm with autofocus, we'll see if that materializes. Sony needs to make a wide one of these that can take filters, and if it only has shift that's fine.
Where did you get the idea Nikon’s 19mm isn’t great? It is a superb lens, even on high resolution bodies. Don’t believe me? Read reviews by Thom Hogan and, if you can stand the dirty, violated feeling it will leave you with, Ken Rockwell.
@@grossieone3683 I'm not sure to be honest. I checked a reviewer I trust (ruclips.net/video/rWOkhOpzBlk/видео.html) and it seems to put in a good performance; I stand corrected. I was going off of something a different reviewer said, but I can't remember who it was.
You rarely if ever gonna use it at full shift. This lens has superb image quality, what you'd expect from any prime.
I'm genuinely early to this one.
ruclips.net/video/yrKpyG-Mof8/видео.html
More Fuji X lenses, please 😀
Can you do a review on the sony 40mm f2.5 g,n
Eventually I will, yes
8:23 there's a wolfs face on the church tower.
Nice one
Tamron 35 150 pls!
I would reeeeeally like Sony to make a modern G-Master equivalent of the Canon tilt shift range. Weather proofing, some sort of filter system, etc. Canon have little to no competition atm and these feel a tad dated for the price.
❤❤❤
I really like this t&s effect by the lens and not in post, but i will and can only afford an t&s lens by Rokinon for example. Specially because of this "niche" using Situations
Just wait a while and get a used one. Even the old TS-E 24L Mk I is way better in real life than the tests seem to point out. This is why it was used mostly by professionals :).
What a lot of reviews do not show, f.e., with the exception so far of Christopher's review here, is the excellent bokeh of TS-E lenses, and that is true for all of them, and at any aperture, with or without tilt and/or shift. Transitions to OOF areas are just absolutely amazing.
I work for an architecture firm in Los Angeles and manage subcontracted photographers. I worked with one last week and he was still using a mirrored camera and I was surprised. He told me he’s been testing the tilt shift lens that you reviewed in this video and that it’s much cleaner on a mirrored cameras and for some reason, on a mirrorless camera the images appear soft as you pointed out. This is from his mouse not mine I don’t own one of these lenses.
Chris I have the canon eos m50 will the canon ef-s 55-250mm f/4-5.6 is stm lens work for my camera
Let's compare sony 50mm 1.2 vs canon vs Nikon.
I've owned this lens and it amazing! But I find an ultra wide zoom like a 12-24mm Sigma to be far more practical. Keep the camera level and open wide. Then crop and vertical lines will be vertical. Depending on how much you will crop, it is sometimes worth shooting vertical, and cropping to horizontal.
Great . Se the LFH label ;-)
So many reviews lately
Price of this lens is almost as TILTING as its wide angle.. I might SHIFT to a different option
oh boi :D
As you mention, it's a very expensive purchase for what we can now fix in post-processing software. You are using a 45 MP camera (R5), more than enough pixels to account for any processing degradation. Compare that with the trade-offs in optical imaging quality degradation at f/4. I'll take the software solution.
Realistically though you're never using a lens like this at f/4 anyway-these things live at f/8-11 in real-world use, regardless of image quality-so that's pretty moot, and you're severely underestimating the difference between careful optical correction compared to digital stretching. Software sure can do a fine job for small corrections, but for putting together the kinds of files these lenses are meant for-your 300mp multi-stitch HDR panoramas, your 500mp-1gp government archive records, etc-there's just too much for the software to cope with cleanly and optical correction does end up delivering a far better result.
But also, two-and-a-bit grand _isn't_ an expensive purchase for the type of work these lenses are intended for (in fact it's downright _cheap_ compared to some comparable tools), so it's pretty safe to say if you consider the price tag expensive then you're plain not working in the kind of market these products are built for anyway. It's kind of like saying a 600mm f/4 is overpriced and pointless because you can just stick a 70-300 on a m4/3 camera or high-res APS-C and crop in... the results aren't the same and that just isn't the kind of market these things are meant for.
@@sebastianmatthews1663 Agreed. In addition, to do a PP tilt off the horizontal or vertical axis, you need to do a lot of stacking with carefully adjusted individual images to get it right.
And as I mentioned elsewhere over here: you will not get the incredibly nice roll-on and roll-off with any lens like you do with the TS-Es.
In my humble opinion, it’s far better to do all this in post.
Have you ever shot with one over an extended period, read the literature on how to get the best results from it?
I guess not .... :)
@@wimg.2377 Absolutely not! I’m sure it’ is a marvellous contraption, but it’s abilities will be lost on 99.99% of the population, so it has no place in my kit bag!
@@tbrown2892 I guess it is a bit like using a technical camera, it is not for everybody. 😀
@@wimg.2377 Ha yes, I’m sure if we were all honest, our most artistic compositions we shot with our smart phones 🤣
@@tbrown2892 Sorry, not in my case. Have been shooting for too long with film before getting into digital 😂.
I always have a camera with interchangeable lenses with me ....