Personally, imperial totally makes sense for framing, drywall, etc. However for smaller "woodworking " projects, metric is awesome! (I suck at fractions 😀). Love all your videos man!
I like metric for designing small, accurate parts (eg, for a 3D printer) but even for smaller woodworking projects (where I rarely need to be more accurate than ⅛") I prefer imperial. If you're no good at fractions, you can always treat your inches like metric units: calculating multiples of 0.75" is just as hard as calculating 18mm, so long as you know how to move a decimal place. But imperial has the nice feature that you can *also* work in fractions, and if you're good at it, this can be quite nice. Calculating multiples of ¾" is much nicer than multiples of 0.75" or 18mm. But one thing that Vancouver Carpenter didn't mention is that we don't tend to use inches and feet on the jobsite. Not together, anyway. The thing that makes imperial complicated is that it has multiple units: inches, feet, miles, etc. So we mostly just stick to one unit: inches. Studs are 16" on centre, not 1'4". My kitchen ceiling is 89½" tall, not 7'5½" tall. When you stick to one unit, it's basically the same as working with metric numbers. The only time we typically use feet on a jobsite is if it's raw materials that are exact foot measures (eg, a 4x8 sheet of drywall), or if it's a rough estimate (my old apartment had 11' ceilings). If you're hearing feet on a jobsite, it's probably a whole number of feet, not a mix of feet and inches. If I could go back in time and tell the French how to design the metric system, I'd give them two pieces of advice: Rather than basing the meter off of an incorrect measurement of the circumference of the Earth, just base it off of inches to make it backwards compatible (under that system, the distance from Toronto to Whitehorse would be 222 mega inches) and change our numbering system to dozenal, so we get the benefits of fractions together with the benefits of easily moving decimal places.
@@RickYorgason Well I'm european and I can tell you metric system also has multiple units. length= kilometer, hectometer, decameter, meter, decimeter, centimeter and millimeter. Each of them multiplies by 10 the unit that follows. The same for weight, surface, capacity or volume although in the case of the surface the multiplication is by 100 (square meters) or by 1000 (volume in cubic meters)
@@pedrofmc0000 I'm Canadian. I understand the metric system. We're pretty bi-lingual here when it comes to measurement systems. We do the exact same thing when we use metric in construction: we never use meters. Plans are always in mm. Also, engineers have metricized the imperial system: thousands of an inch are common. There's not really any reason the metric system could have used at least one conventional measurement instead of starting everything from scratch.
@@RickYorgason agreed. it seems that for countries where building materials are already made using whole numbers in imperial, decimal-izing inches is a better improvement than starting from scratch.
Here in the UK we have the nightmare scenario of wood panel goods very often being imperial (imported from US/Canada etc) and plasterboard being metric (imported from mainland Europe). So when framing a flat roof you might have to layout on 400mm c/c to suit the plasterboard, and then rip the 2440 OSB decking down to 2400. Similar shenanigans for external stud walls. Madness!
Why are you matching the framing to the drywall instead of the sheathing? The drywaller is going to have to cut every sheet anyways. Your walls hardly ever fall on layout, and even exterior walls have to be cut to account for the thickness of the walls. The only exception is the odd very large room on the ceiling.
Here in Australia the old 2x4 became a 45mmx90mm (also available is 45x70 and sometimes 45x140 etc, but they are more as beams rather than framing). We have 35mm wide timber for lighter framing in 70mm, 90mm etc as well. It is weird how these varied around the world. Board is often made on 400mm centres which is 15 3/4". Precut timber lengths are usually in 300mm increments, e.g 2400, 2700, 3000, 3300 etc.
2 by 4 = 3 syllables, 4 characters 45 by 90 = 5 syllables. 6 characters In construction, what exactly is gained by doing things in metric, besides all the extra syllables and characters?
@@Dev-lc4cd This is the strangest argument I've heard yet... "three mil" "one thirty-second of an inch" What's gained is that it's a consistent, proportion measurement system that works in base-ten format like our entire modern maths system. Nothing needs to be memorised, no odd conversions and fractions need to be known. If you can count, then you can measure. 1mm, 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm 1/32", 3/64", 1/16", 5/64", 1/8"
Here in Norway we have 2x4'' as 48x98mm, 2x6'' as 48x148mm and so on. Stud centers are on 600mm, sheet material comes in 1200mm x 2400mm, 2600mm... insulation is 570mm width in rolls or 570mm x 1200mm as plates. Windows and doors are at even numbers such as 1000mmx2100mm for a door or 1200mmx1200mm for a window ( it's a hole size, actually all frames are 12mm short at width and height to make it easier to install. That works just fine, same as imperial. Material dictates the method of calculation.
I struggled with this a lot when I moved to Canada from Europe. I'm a basic home DIY'er, and when we purchased our home I was doing some basic reno stuff. I was being stubborn and tried to work in metric, which very quickly led me into some issues. Another problem I ran in to is that I learned the hard way that a 2x4 isn't actually two by four. And plywood isn't exactly the thickness as listed, either. Like, ...what? When I would purchase multiplex (plywood) back home, it came in odd measurements because it was actually still 8x4, but 15mm ply is ...15mm. That still messes me up sometimes.
As a Canadian who does small renovation projects and loves to dabble with woodwork in the garage, I would love to see our building materials and measurements go metric. Millimetres (the base 10 system) make sense to everyone.
That's fine, but I'm a contractor and I do small renos too, getting materials is much better in Imperial currently. We use very standard lengths of material, and almost any house I reno is going to have studs laid out on 16 inch centres.
Cinder blocks are 8x8x16” nominal, which is the actual size plus the width of one mortar joint. Suppose the finished height of a cinder block were 20 cm, which is 3.2 mm shorter than 8”. Would you think that was a problem if you had to repair a damaged block wall? Or even build a new wall that connected to an old wall?
I remember the teachers in my school would always say they wished we would convert to the metric system in the United States. The rest of the world uses the metric system.
I like your coverage of the issue. I have worked on major projects both North of the Border and South and have even worked some projects in California in the time that they went metric. Both systems are ok and have their positives and negatives. The one positive that you gave short credit to is the easier ability to divide evenly in a base 12, 16, or 32 system. With the imperial system one can subdivide any of the whole number units into 12, 6, 4, 3, or 2 even divisions easily. Something that is not possible with the base 10 metric system. It is much more friendly to division without a calculator.
Not entirely getting this concept. There is no need to even attempt base 16 or 32 with metric because something that measures 108mm is just exactly that: 10cm and 8mm and with exact precision. You wouldn't call it 10cm and 8/10mm you just say 108. With imperial you are forced to fraction to get the same measurement (4 1/4 here) because you just wouldn't call something 17/4's or am I missing what you're saying?
How do you really divide a 4" length into 3 equal parts? Your base of 12 only helps to divide feet into inches, it doesn't help to divide inches. Besides, it all depends on the measurements of the materials. There's a reason why sheet goods here are mostly 6, 12, 18 or 24 mm (18 being the most common, similar to 3/4"). It's just easy to work with these numbers.
@@NickRgibbs Ok, first sorry for not being clear, that’s on me not you. There really is two things mixed in my earlier post. For inches and up there is a benefit to it being a base 12 system. So, for that, a person can divide the whole units into halfs, quarters, thirds, sixths, and twelfths. In base 10 one is limited to halfs, fifths, or tenths. This has a benefit when one is in a position to do this in your head vs with a calculator and maintain accuracy. You just have a few more commonly needed options while keeping things exact. When one is working with measurements below the inch it would be great if it was also base 12 for computational reasons but for practical/historical reasons it is based on the concept of progressively halving the measurement. A process that is relatively simple to do in the physical world… it just unfortunately throws a wrench in the works when doing the math. In reality the best possible case would probably have been if while adopting the metric system the French would have kept the base 12 system and incorporated that with all the other very logical and systematic parts of the metric system. Something that was a very real possibility. If you think that there is no way the SI system could be anything other than base 10 I would encourage you to go watch Numberphile and their “Base12” video on RUclips. You have to hang in to the ~7min mark though.
@@sanderd17 You are not wrong... I should not have thrown in the 16 and 32 in the early post as you are correct that it is not the ability to subdivide those... see my other response to Nick that hopefully clarifies what I was intending....
@@davidruss7702 You have a valid point and it makes more sense having had it explained. I have either seen that video before or watched another video of base number systems because this wasn't completely new when I watched it now. I agree that a small measurement benefits from being easily split into multiple fractions rather than base 10 which can only be halved or fifth-ed easily. I do think though that industries that use the metric system have just moved their "standard size" to be more accommodating to such fractions. BTW I'm Canadian and work in Canada using the SI system for everything other than baking and construction. I like the precision of it but when I am forced to use SI at work I'm just not used to it and am constantly converting things. And my cousin is an electrician (mostly commercial) and uses SI for everything. I was helping him do some DIY work and while I loved the accuracy of the SI measurement, it doesn't help if you cut something a full 1m short because you aren't used to the tape measure.
In UK we use both metric and imperial. We will always refer to them as 4 x 2 but it is actually a nominal measurement. For cutting metric is so much easier.
I once built a metric house in Revelstoke BC, a building package where all the materials were supplied in metric sizes. Being able to work in both scales fluently from my science days, I really liked the accuracy of metric. Yay, no fractions! GK
Couple interesting thoughts. I'm a Machinist, and machinists in Canada also work primarily in imperial. For a couple similar reasons. The first being stock sizes. Other than a few specialty products such as chromed shafting for hydraulic cylinders, it is very hard to get metal of any sort in metric sizes. The second reason is that machine tools can last for many decades (it's not uncommon to see 50-80 year old lathes still in daily use) and some of my precision measurement tools are upwards of 100 years old. Often handed down or bought from someone retiring. Because micrometres and lathes and such rely on precision screws to measure and move, they can only operate in the system they are built for. And all of these old tools and machines have inch screws. I have only ever seen one metric lathe in person in my whole life. So what that means is the only things machinists do in metric are metric threads, and holes small enough to make with a metric drill. Everything else is converted from MM to thousands of an inch and made as if it's an imperial measurement. Also on a side note I have a friend who's an estimator at PCL and I find it amusing how he talks about concrete volume in cubic meters but then finishing and coatings by square foot
@@dienekes4364 Seems that way, but "metric" and "decimal" are two different things. Engineers and machinists have been using decimal or "engineering" inches since the 1850s, well before the metric system gained widespread acceptance. Interestingly, when Thomas Jefferson was George Washington's Secretary of State in the 1790s, he pushed for the adoption of the metric system. To me the funny thing is that if Jefferson had gotten his way, the US could have been the first nation to adopt the Metric System instead of the last.
@@christopherdahle9985 _"but "metric" and "decimal" are two different things"_ -- I didn't say they were. I said they were both used in decimal format. That's the extent of my post. But thanks for assuming I was too ignorant to understand the difference.
@@dienekes4364 Actually I assumed you had more knowledge than the average bear. I just thought you might be interested to know that at the same time we were decimalizing our currency in the 1790s, the US nearly did adopt the metric system, and it might have happened except that the ship which was delivering a set of calibrated standards to Thomas Jefferson was attacked by pirates. The metric standards went down with the ship.
🤣 as a Canadian tile-setter (weirdo) ,i use both , i do room layout in imperial but i have a Italian snap tile cutter with metric on the guide, also most tiles are metric many tiles sold as 1' x 2" foot tiles are usually the smaller 30 cm x 60 cm . So the combination tape measure is what i always use.
But you're not weird. You are using metric because you are often using metric materials. That's just pragmatic. But I shouldn't sell you short. Maybe you are delightfully weird in other ways😂
yeah, I have been thinking about this, not for precision though. I normally cut trim to the 32nd, (builder grade trash). but I find it time consuming and occasionally, causing errors, to write out so many fractions on a small cut list, and I find when I have to scratch out and rewrite a number (because I am a carpenter, not a secretary), I have trouble reading what I have wrote, now it's much smaller and no longer on the line. Also, I am thinking about moving to a tablet for cut lists (as my laser tape is bluetooth), and that would make writing in fractions inconvenient, for distances that my laser tape can't capture. but... my laser tape could just output in mm. I could measure in mm. I could enter numbers on my tablet or my phone in mm. I could add or subtract all the numbers I need in a systematic way for headers in mm (using excel and fill column). Gotta figure out how to do it without my boss finding out though, because I expect some screwups while learning :D
@@timmietimmins3780 100% dude switch to mm for that. I don’t think you will encounter as many screwups as you think. In fact I think you will instantly have a reduction in screwups due to fraction mistakes. It’s so much simpler than imperial!
On a box of nails, the letter D is used to denote pennyweight because it comes not from the English penny, but the ancient Roman denarius. Just a little insight to how resistant carpenters are to change.
Cool video, I was wondering why the Canadian carpenters still used imperial, makes sense though. I’m an American and used to be an auto body tech. I (we) only used the metric system to measure and really grew to like it. Since all modern vehicles are all in metric, as well as all of the frame straightening companies, it only makes sense to use metric; like the flip side to the point you’re making about carpentry, lumber, and imperial measurements. My garage/car related toolbox has metric tape measures and my home project toolbox has ‘Mercian tape measures. 🇨🇦🇺🇸
"In September of 1999, after almost 10 months of travel to Mars, the Mars Climate Orbiter burned and broke into pieces. On a day when NASA engineers were expecting to celebrate, the ground reality turned out to be completely different, all because someone failed to use the right units, i.e., the metric units! The Scientific American Space Lab made a brief but interesting video on this very topic." This is what can happen when only 3 countries on earth refuse to convert to the metric system. Myanmar and Liberia are the other two.
Actually you dont need to go that far few years back a canadian flight ran out of fuel and crash landed the reason was changing the fuel tanks to metric and the pilot thought he had that volume in imperial
4x2 in Australia is 90 x 40 mm. Remember you get variation in lumber dimensions. Our lumber are in 5 and 10mm sizes. MM variations are not an issue working in metric. 100 x45, 200 x 50, 145 x 45 do not present as a problem. In Australia we have products in imperial and we need to work out the conversion. We have to work with both is some cases. Great conversation subject. Australia at least has 240v power LOL.
I would like to know what the standard size is for a sheet of plywood in Australia and what numbers you use when laying out studs on centers. I'm totally guessing that what we call a 4x8 sheet would be 1200 x 2400, and that you'd lay out studs on 400 or 600 mm centers (close to 16" or 24" center to center). I've looked in vain for a metric tapemeasure in the US laid out solely in metric units and including the standard sorts of markings we see in the US to help with layout.
@@scania9786 Thank you for the interesting and useful information. 900mm is close to 5 feet, so I suppose that is why high quality European sheet good such as Baltic Birch ply, and Valchromat MDF (if you can find it at all) are sold in the US in 5' x 5' sheets. It still troubles me that I can't find a purely metric tape measure anywhere in the US, only ones with Imperial measurements where they have added a metric scale to one edge, making them awkward for accurate use if you have to measure and mark on the "other edge". "Officially" the US HAS adopted the metric system, and some things are absolutely required to be marketed in metric units (two liter soda bottles, etc) But as a practical matter, industry just labels most things in both units. Again, the metric units appear as an afterthought. At one time I thought the gasoline (petrol) industry would start selling fuel by the liter as a way to disguise rising prices. And that would be a pretty easy change to make... a couple of changes to the software that controls the electronic pumps. But it hasn't happened. Cheers!
In Germany/Europe we use imperial in a few cases, where it’s still standard. For instance in plumbing the tube diameters are measured in inches. The same is true in the IT, where the monitor size is specified in inches. In sciences for good reasons metrical is used worldwide.
Wood / lumber is in weird sizes here in Europe too and it is never a problem, so I don't think that argument makes a lot of sense. Also wood dimensions (even MDF) are never truly accurate, so it doesn't matter anyway. I think the reason imperial is used is because imperial was used in the past and you have a lot of contact with the USA (although it has more to do with the workforce being able to switch over between countries than wood sizes). The fractions in imperial make adding way more complicated than it needs to be. There is no doubt this stubbornness costs a significant amount of money to countries still using imperial. It causes mistakes and deters people who are bad at fractions from the trade.
I have moved from Vancouver to US for 25yrs, I still look at the km/h on my speedometer, Celsius on my weather app, and kg on my scale... and I still spell ~os with ~ous, and pronounce "Z" as "zed"..... When I build things for my own use, I draw the plan in metrics.... Metrics is just more friendly, eh
I think you forgot the part about (aboot) the beaver being a truly proud and noble animal, a toque is a hat, and a chesterfield is a couch. I moved to the US 7 years ago, and also still use km/h for speed and Celsius for temperature, but I never did have a good fundamental idea of what a kg was, vs a pound. I could more easily visualize and mentally multiply a pound of butter. Most of the people I work with are from metric countries as well, and they're always slightly amused but slightly confused when they actually know what temperature I'm talking about (as I guess they usually assume I'm American not Canadian). I'm beginning to get into machining as a hobby, and I'm torn whether I should be measuring in thousandths or tenths (of thousandths) of an inch, or microns...
One of my favorites is that metric is more accurate. Since a mm is about 1/25” and people go to war (I merely obsess) over 1/64” vs 1/32” vs 1/16” accuracy the “more accurate” claim doesn’t really work. But the thought of working in metric sure is appealing when I have to add 15/16”, 9/64”, and 3 and a half inches. But that’s what pencils and offcuts are for. Thanks for the video.
It's not "more accurate" so much as "easier and quicker to be more accurate" since metric users tend to be accustomed to very small units like millimeters, milliliters, and milligrams versus imperial users.
it's not more accurate. fractions are used when "accuracy" is not needed. when it is, in the US, we use the decimal imperial system. They are all just made up things that we have agreed on. The advantage to those who use/learn the imperial system is the better understanding of factions (for average person).
@@Ramdodge582 You do realize that fractions and decimal numbers are exactly the same thing, right? 1/2 = 0.5, 1/4 = 0.25, 1/8 = 0.125. Both are accurate representations of values greater than 0 but less than 1.
Metric is the best for many things like modeling since it’s very precise and easy to use for small items. Imperial is still the easiest system to use in carpentry. The best thing is to be comfortable with both systems and use the one you need depending on what you do!
There's no such thing as "being proficient in metric" though. There is no learning curve to the metric system. The only reason you feel like there's a learning curve is because you're thinking in metric as a conversion from empirical because all your materials are still in empirical. And the only reason that is a learning curve is because empirical is such an odd measuring system (albeit, you that you're used to). Annoyingly though, even when suppliers switch to metric, it still has remnants of the empirical system to make your calculations a little harder (studs are 90 x 45 instead of 100 x 50, because things need to retrofit into existing builds etc.)
Why do people imagine that a decimal based system makes them smarter? Kids, you are back to counting on your fingers. Our carpenter is using way more of his brain but also using a system that makes his job easier.
@@atrifle8364 I think having an argument about which system is meant to be better is kind of redundant at this point. I just want to point out that the reason a lot of people who are used to empirical seem to think metric is confusing is only because they're treating metric as a conversion from empirical, instead of just seeing it as it's own thing. It's like if I tried to speak a English by forming a sentence in Italian, then translating each of those words to English in my head. Instead of just... speaking and thinking in English...
I use decimals with imperial measurements when creating layouts that require precision to find centers, drill bit sizes, saw and router setups etc. Having a machinist background this makes sense to me. Fractions work but clumsy when doing tight precision work.
One often overlooked driver of drawing buildings in imperial is the lowly lay-in ceiling tile grid. Standardized at 2’ x 4’, they could easily be changed to say 600 x 1200, unfortunately now you can’t use a standard drop-in light fixture. Metric fixtures are available, but require metric tubes and you can see where we are headed……
Stick with where you are. Imperial works better for building e.g. a course of bricks (Inc the mortar) is 3 inches. CLS much easier in imperial. UK is supposed to be metric but the numbers aren't practical apart from where you might need 4 digit mm precision. Funny my new year's resolution was to buy a new mattress. The width sizes to choose from are still imperial in multiples of 6 inches. So imperial is all about multiples of a few fundamentals. Just what you need for building to make things line up. Metric tries to be precise with lots and lots of digits. Great video thanks.
Cool thing about imperial is I most often need centers (halves), which is doubling the denominator (bottom). Half of 7/8ths? 7/16ths. No division or decimals needed.
I've been looking for an easy way to halve something like 7 5/8. This is a multistep process for me and drives me nuts. I end up converting to decimals and then back to fractions.
@@RB-hj7qc Since half of 7 is 3 and half, I start with the 5/8th part... 5/16th is half of that, plus 8/16ths for the half from the 3 and...results in 3 13/16th. In other words, it's easiest for me to start with the fraction as that gives you the denominator, so getting half of those streamlines the process. Let's get more complicated with this two digit odd number my SO will now give me, 67 3/4, 3/8ths and 4/8ths is 7/8ths, so 33 7/8ths is half. Half of that is 16 15/16. Half of that is 8 15/32. Half that is ridiculous for my work!
Right tool for the job, they both have merits and everyone should learn both. Fractions are easier to divide mentally and you don't lose information (decimals) like metric, saw kerfs are 3/32 or 1/8 thin kerf, feet and inches are easier to visualize so imperial is a better system for rough carpentry. Cabinet work is easier in metric laying out panels from a blueprint using just mm where there is no figuring out to do. For anything scientific that has to be put in a formula then metric all the way. Use the tool that works better in that specific circumstance.
Bar fractions are easier to divide into a standalone fraction, but harder to add, subtract, divide, multiply, and overall integrate with other fractions-it's harder to immediately know whether 9∕32in. is bigger or smaller than 1∕4in. and to add them, but immediately easy to tell that 280 mm is bigger than 250 mm and add them up. Feet and inches are only easier for _you_ to visualize because you're more accustomed to them; in most countries, it's the opposite because everyone uses metric near-exclusively.
Metric in New Zealand and it's so easy. A sheet of plasterboard/drywall known down here as gib board is a simple 2400mmX1200mm 10mm or 13mm thick (common size). So studs placed 600mm centres is needed. Plywood, chipboard, the same size again it's your common size. MDF seems to be slightly different, 18mm thick 2440mmX1220mm, I have no idea why MDF is bigger. I can understand the point you make about the dimensions of wood it makes sense to still use imperial. Even with framing timber for studs ours measure 50mmX100mm rough then we buy them dressed at 45mmX90mm. A beam in a typical house 90mmX300mm, give or take. So all metric does is count in 5, 10, 100mm but a lot of us still call that 2X4 yes a 2X4 I guess it's stapled to our brains, but imperial/metric one is not better than the other, like you said it depends on the measurements of the timber. I would like to hear from some of our American mates will the U.S go metric and is there anybody from the states that uses metric?
In the states, most sheet goods are 48 x 96 inches (4 x8 feet) but we can get MDF and some other things in 49x97. I can't speak to why, but my theory is that having that extra is good if your shop has a big CNC router table. Just a little bit extra in case the edges get dinged up or the sheet gets put in crooked. To my knowledge, all those size of materials are also available in plain 4x8 sheets
In Australia the powers that be decreed that in the building industry we would use metres and millimetres. Centimetres we’re not to be used. A bit short sighted in my view, particularly when the manufacturers of tape measures etc calibrated most of them in centimetres! Of course the clothing trades etc use centimetres so this added to the confusion. Now it’s been around for many years it’s easy to work out the context and convert - it’s only a decimal place after all. I was raised on imperial but now use metric and am comfortable with the conversions. I still think it takes longer to add 3/8 to 5/16 than add 10mm to 8mm. For correct accurate conversions though one inch is 25.4mm. So 30cm is not actually a foot if you are doing joinery - 30.48 cm is a foot!
😁 5327mm, shout out 53..27 to the bloke that cuts. Worked for 30+yrs now.. Fast and no mishaps. 5meter 32,7centimeters is due to misshearing, then it's cluster feck if it turns out short..
It’s the same argument for using fractions vs decimals. Decimals are easier but when you are thinking about quantities and how you actually divide them up fractions are real world. You don’t divide an apple into .6, you divide an apple in half, in quarters, in thirds, you cut a board in half or in eighths. Metric and decimals are not natural measurements. They are based on lengths of wavelengths of light. Not the length of a thumb or a foot or real objects. People think in apples and oranges not wavelengths of light. The only downside of imperial is it’s not based on 10. If a foot was based on 10 inches that would greatly simplify things. Why they picked 12 doesn’t make a lot of sense. Unless you consider the number of ways you can divide 12. You can divide 12 in half, in quarters, in thirds, in sixths, it’s highly divisible. 10 is not very divisible. Half or tenths and that’s it. So maybe 12 was the perfect number, for fractions. That’s why our system is so non metric / decimal friendly.
Twelve isn’t that weird or arbitrary. Our clock, degrees of a circle, and calendar months are 12. Base twelve is from the Babylonians (I’m pretty sure) who would count their finger knuckles (3 per finger, times 4 fingers = 12) using their thumb as a pointer. Then with the other hand you can indicate how many “twelves” you have counted, so 1 finger is 12, 2 is 24… all the way up to 60. I’m not sure I’m explaining it super well but Google counting to 12 with finger knuckles.
I always done metric here in Sweden, but still some foldables has inches and metric. My OCD brain results into I always give or if I cutting, in millimeters. Would be a steep learning curve if I would had to use inches, 1/8- 1/64 would be foaming around my mouth 🤣🤣 But anyhow, as long as the length etc get up straight and in level it's happy days.
In Central Europe the funny thing is that some things comes pure in metrics sizes, but some sheet goods have size just rounded to metric from imperial. OSB (small) is 1220 mm x610 mm, while MDF comes 1200 mm x 600 mm :D To be honest, it would be good to agree on 2x4 an 4x8 and keep actual sizes constant in both systems. So the same trick works. Nevertheless, it's framing or furniture. Luckily, you really don't go to Mars in wooden starship :D As the guy who was born and raised in the place where there is only a metric I have no problem with imperial measures. Imperial works as good as metric in terms of "execution" as long as you don't mix the systems. The funny thing though is that in general you have this grammar purists (in each language) who try to fight everyone's grammar on the Internet. Is metric/imperial purists the same for woodworking/construction?
Because our materials are in inches, and we share them across the border. Also our tradies are used to it and most Canadian measurements are mixed in some way regardless. Fractions are pretty cool once you learn them too. People who Google-translate metric into decimalized inches are the devil 🤣, the worst of both worlds.
Mr. Dan, There was a reply here referring to the use of decimal inches in machine shops and I started to respond that decimal inches to the nearest thou in an original design are quite different from "decimalized inches" which come from a plan converted from metric to imperial. If a thing is designed to metric measurements, it's much easier to fabricate in metric even if you are used to Imperial. For example if a wooden panel is supposed to be 325 x 750 x 25 mm, I would not ever try to convert that to 13.77952755905512 x 29.52755905511811 x 0.984251968503937 inches. Instead, I'd either mark out the piece with a metric rule, or I'd redesign the entire project to work out to common fractions of inches. After 45 years bouncing from the trades to math and science education, and now as an instructor in the trades I can pretty fluidly work in inches, fractional inches, decimal inches, or metric units, but I agree that there is a special circle in hell for anyone who decimalizes metric plans, and they are doomed to spend that eternity with the people who metricize imperial plans.
@@geoffflato6065 Does that even happen? I mean, does any machinist or engineer anywhere ever use non-decimal fractional units. I'm no machinist at all, but I've never seen a non-decimal fractional scale on a machine tool and I can't imagine trying to mill some part to some fraction like "63/512." How would you even try to set that up on a mill? In building houses and commercial structures, I've rarely seen a blue print with measures called out to anything smaller than an 8th, and any woodworking plan that specifed a dimension closer than 1/32 would be crazy. My calipers can measure in decimals to the nearest 0.0005, but they won't read fractions past a 64th
I personally use imperial for anything carpentry related and metric for the CAD models I design. For whatever reason despite the fact that I grew up with imperial units it's easier for me to use millimeters when I work on 3d models.
Agree, my cnc machines and 3d printers were designed and calibrated in metric. Especially on the 3d printers, weird things happen with layer height and wall thickness if I make the machine try to approximate imperial measurements. So I use metric units for anything designed for those machines. But if I am designing a kitchen or a dining table, I use imperial units in Sketchup.
As an “older” Canadian, I was raised on the Imperial system. I can imagine a newbie who was raised on the Metric system wanting to use it in the trades but just about every building is built on the Imperial system. All the building material is cut to Imperial measurements. If you know the metric equivalents then you may get away with using the Metric system. This is one old dog who will not be learning new tricks as far as building is concerned. lol
As a now Canadian retired electrician who worked my entire apprenticeship and a bit in Imperial. From house building to hi-rise to cabinets and furniture changed to metric SI. All drawings were in metric. Within a few weeks to months, carpenters, plumbers, sheet metal, electricians, draftsmen and designers would tell they would never go back to Imperial. I don't care what off the shelf materials dimensions are, you are breaking down materials. Measure and cut in metric, so much easier.
I am an American, and my father in law is Polish. We were framing a house in TX over Christmas... speaking German to each other :). Anyway, he's quite familiar with inches, although he didn't know it. The Germans call inches a Zoll, and use it somewhat regularly in construction. I own metric tapes and sticks, but also imperial. I draw in small CAD (3D printing) in metric, large CAD (houses) in imperial, and build engines on however the manufacturer built it. Both types of measurement serve a purpose, and both are quirky. Next lets talk about machinist calipers which are base 10 imperial...
Love your show and have learned a lot. Thanks for that. Great information, great expertise, and a good amount of humour. But for the life of me I cannot understand why you say adding fractions is intuitive. In cabinet installations we work to a 32nd. How can you easily add, say, 11/16 + 3/32 + 3/4 without spending a lot of time on it? I would take decimals any day.
just convert to all 32nds - (11/16 * 2/2 => 22/32) + 3/32 + (3/4 * 8/8 => 24/32) = 49/32. I'll admit I had to stop and think about the 3/4 to 24/32, but once you put everything in 32ndths, it's just as easy as adding mms together. If your unit is going to be 32ndths, then keep it all consistent and don't use mixed denominators in your fractions.
Worked in a welding shop. Clients would send in blue prints in either metric or imperial but when we sent finished products out some stuff got returned cause somebody tired to convert the measurements and when converting from imperial to metric or vice-versa it doesn't work out properly. Also I found the daul side tape measures suck it's best to buy 2 tape measures one metric and one imperial this way you can read either side of the tape
Hey Ben. In Europe and other places, well anywhere but the US/Canada. Lumber is milled to fit the metric dimension thus a 2x4 in Norway is actually closer to a real 2 x 4 inch (1.89 x 3.86) measurement where as in Canada/US it is 1.5 x 3.5. Thus the numbers work out when working in metric. In other words, the US/Canada is shafting the public by short changing on their product. And for layout purposes you use 60cm o/c multiples.
No, we are not. Everybody knows that “2x4” is a nominal size, not an actual size. The actual size was standardized about a hundred years ago, when lumber sizes varied by region. The 2x4 is a structural component. The optimal size is one which makes it strong enough for its intended purpose, but not so much stronger than necessary so as to be a waste of material. Wood frame construction is a mature art, and if established conventions are followed, you can expect that the structure will be sound. That is what you want from a building material. It is advantageous that the dimensions be standardized, but there is no value at all to having the dimensions be whole inches.
I was introduced to the Metric system in 4th grade (1974, USA). Dear teacher assured us that we needed to know this because “in 5 years, the USA is going to convert to metric” 😂. I see her on a regular basis and ask how that project is coming. US auto industry is just now getting there with completely new design but early 80’s was a mess with Imperial chassis and Metric components 😵💫. Metric truly does make sense but I doubt the building trades will switch anytime soon. I worked in a factory using both Metric and Imperial machines and lived by my digital calipers. Fractions really aren’t that bad as you said and the precision tolerances of metric machinery still requires working with decimals so I’ve just learned to roll with it.
Doing cabinets, we will use metric from time to time depending on material and “job conditions”; as it can be easier…..example: doing a custom door that frameless and “hidden” with say sugatune hinges. Well, everything usually in metrics so, it’s just easier to switch over and do the door in metric; as it’s how I was taught and still do this today. Cheers✌🏻
You are absolutely right, all of our materials are sold in Freedom Units, and stick frame houses (16" centers, 4*8 sheet goods, etc) rely on that. .....I don't really care, and often do certain tasks in metric like tile jobs.
In the US my job has to do a lot with structural engineering so I use imperial. In fact we took on a project from UK and had to convert all the material in the 3d model from Metric to imperial and it sucked, little things add up. When I design things at home for my 3D printer I tend to use metric because the print head and Z axes is in metric and it just makes the project easier. Your explanation why you use imperial was spot on ,and thank you for clarify, I was one of those people who wondered why you used imperial in Canada, now I know.
American here. We've been asked the SAME question in the U.S. And the REAL answer is if all of the existing buildings were made with Imperial units, so in order to switch not only would everyone have to start designing and working in metric, but you would have to buy your materials differently as well. Stores like Home Depot would have to start carrying both Imperial and Metric building materials, because homeowners of EXISTING buildings would be looking for those. Ultimately it comes down to cost. The cost of having to supply two different building materials sizes and also the cost of developers having to remake all of their designs into another system of measurement. It is just cost prohibitive. We are more likely to use km/h and km on the highways and buy gas by the liter than we are to switch to metric for building materials. Also, in America we use metric MORE than we use the Imperial system. There is this misconception that we only use the Imperial system, but we actually use both. In most industries, especially scientific and international ones, metric is used. As far as switching our highways from miles to km or gas from gallons to liters there is simply no need. What advantage do you get from the switch? Simply to be like everyone else? We already use metric in scientific fields and in international business.
Here in the UK old building are also built in imperial but new material is sold in metric. It can be a bit awkward. They sell metric to imperial adaptors for fixing to old pipe work and sewage systems.
In Australia we still have the Imperial dimensioned materials but expressed in mm so 38x90 is the “ 2x4 dressed “ size and “2400x1200” is 2440x1220… but if you have never been taught Imperial it natural to just use mm for everything p.s. mm is used exclusively in construction. order of magnitude changes cause miss calculation
I'm Canadian and used Imperial since I started woodworking. All my reference material was Imperial. At one point I attempted to switch to metric but it slowed be down and I made mistakes in my math.
The reason I don't like metric tape measures is the mm lines 2 to 4 and 6 to 9 are the same length. The imperial fractional tapes have different lengths making them easier to read with my less than perfect eyes.
In Sweden, we go almost exclusively by metric (at least for carpentry, plumbing is still lagging). EXCEPT for the old-timers, they still use imperial when when it comes to lumber. For example, when they say 2x4, they're actually talking about 45x95mm. Why, when it's closer to 50x100mm? Well, because rough cut lumber is actually closer to 50x100mm, but once planed, it's 45x95mm, which is actually true to size when you're going to the store to pick them up. Furring strips are typically 28x70, 28x95, 34x70 & 34x95
Great video and explanation. This is something I always wondered about, especially when I’m buying Baltic Birch ply. You also did a great job walking the middle of the road in the never ending debate Metric vs Imperial.😂😂
Looking for one of Ben's videos where he does a quick tour of a place he's working, and shows cabinets HE built and they had this awesome 45 degree frame and 45 degree angled door to match. Anyone? I've looked everywhere.
Do you feather your edges out to 8 inches....or 203mm? LOL. For those of us who are also naval history fans, we can do the gun calibers back and forth pretty quick - 305mm = 12", 406mm=16", 356mm=14". 57mm=2.25" And so on. Although not "pounders" - those are just silly Brit units. ("Cut me a strip of plywood 17 pounders wide and 4 foot long").
I had the same problem with all nuts, bolts wrenches and other stuff being available in both metric and imperial here in Canada. Later I realized the benefits of both depending on the type of job at hand. I find metric better for large or ultra fine measurements while imperial for mid range measurements. Representing fine measurements in mm instead of inches or variants of it makes metric wins there. However in jobs requiring measurements of walls, boards, frames, installation sites, imperial wins. Again moving a bit higher like farms, roads, lanes, similar measurements metric wins again. It just simply makes more sense to use appropriate units depending on the size or type of job at hand.
A great video and I was curious about this too. The explanation makes sense. I'd say the one and only thing I disagree with is your thought about imperial possibly being easier for laymen. I think that for the average person who doesn't rely on measurement day-to-day, metric is easier because the conversions are straightforward and you avoid fractions altogether. The fractions and such in imperial are not so simple when you're only doing conversions once a week or whatever. A laborer doesn't notice this because he's doing it thousands of times per day; it's just instinct. But the office worker has to really think about it.
Canadian Lumber heads south, a large portion is export to southern neighbour. British colony was founded with imperial measurements. Legacy makes sense.
I don’t mind imperial when I measure longer distances (like a whole wall), where inch precision is nearly enough. But when I need to work with 1/16 and 1/32 inches, and divide and multiply them, it quickly becomes a nightmare and use milimeters instead.
1/16+1/32=3/32 done in my head. 1/16=2/32, 2/32+1/32=3/32. That said I make both sides mad. I use both in the US. Also, 1/32 in MM is like .8 MM in home construction we are not getting that close, you are not doing it the military way. Measure with a micrometer, mark with a crayon and cut with an axe.
@@juzoli I don't understand what do you mean? How do you know what I do a living? The right way of saying it is "Have you ever worked in construction?" The answer is yes. Have a good day, was not trying to make you mad, if you took it that way. Fat Max tapes in the field don't have 1/32 that it.
@@marinefoxalpha4499 My assumption is based on that you didn’t have a real life example… You brought an unrealistic, oversimplified example which never happens in construction. And of course it works fine in very simple examples.
You could use an engineer’s scale of feet, tenths, and hundredths. One hundredth is about 1/8 inch. For finer work, you can measure in inches, tenths, and hundredths, which is about as fine as you can read a rule.
Before retirement I was an optical machinist. In the US all optical engineers use metric measurements but all machinists use imperial measurements. I learned early on to use both, I put it this way my native language is imperial but I can speak metric. (at least for measurements forget weight, temperature volume.....) As far as woodworking goes imperial all the way! Having been a machinist precision is no problem for me in imperial.
we use metric here but I don't like the use of mm on larger pieces.. it's so much quicker for me to picture 1.8 meters or 90cm over the standard 1800mm and 900mm
We had a guy start with us a few years back, he showed uo after his first week all proud of his new tape measure, just to open it and realize it was 100% metric 😂 he never heard the end of it
Honestly the US should be using metric as well since we formally adopted the metric system years and years ago, I'm horrible with history but I remember a grade school teacher telling us there were "warehouses full of new road signs, etc. I guess it boils down to nobody knowing WTF a kilometer or centimeter is or being able to guess the length of it off the top of our heads
Using metric does not make anyone smarter. The imperial system is based in everyday measurements, at a human scale, easily divisible into everything but thirds Metric is for science labs. It offers the average person no advantage, other than to generally make them dumber while oddly feeling smarter.
The only metric material we have in the UK is plasterboard (drywall) and sometimes OSB. Every chippy here works in metric other than a few old school boys but we use imperial phrases for describing sheet sizes and rough timber dimensions. I'm on a job at the moment where we're about to start sheeting over a Canadian ICF product and the embedded fixing centres are 16" or 8" - makes it a nightmare for metric plasterboard. I've been lining the cabinet walls with ply which is imperial so no problems there!
Canadian glaziers use metric and imperial interchangeably because we have to due to the variety if parts and the other trades we interact with on installs. Makes for a good challenge but everything is within 3mm/ 1/8" regardless.
I'm a graphic artist by trade. I use inches, millimeters, points, picas, agate. I like inches. There are also "metric inch" rulers where inches are broken into 10th instead of 16ths. I never really used them, but it does make going between decimal notation and fractional notation easier. For example 1/10 = 0.10 but 1/16 = 0.0625
Are there countries which have metric building materials? I'd love to know what they have and how they build houses. Like, you wouldn't want 3 meter ceilings. Is it 2.5 meters? What is a metric sheet of plywood? Are their "2x4's" on 50 cm centers? If they don't have 32" and 36" doors, what do they have? We're in an increasingly rough spot in the USA, it's not good that our kids not only have to learn this archaic, difficult system. They still have to learn metric, and then we also have to constantly convert back and forth. In automotive and fabrication we've basically moved to metric already but construction would be a huge challenge. Even if we totally commited to metric, lumberyards would have to stock both, remodels would be a pain, many carpenters would resist the change (for good reasons) etc... and it's unclear if the future benefits would even be worth it all. I mean, it took a few decades to transition in auto, ag equipment, steel fab. In residential construction it might take a couple centuries.
Very informative. Thank you. However, all through the presentation I could not make myself stop wondering what you were supporting on the wall behind you with that sizeable piece of plywood.
In Australia we changed to metrics in the early 70s and I can assure you, once you have made the change you will never go back - it's so much better. Your concerns about building material sizes obviously existed here but in reality it wasn't a problem. Timber sizes aren't a concern as it's very easy to adjust the machines accordingly. You will eventually make the change and I am completely confident you won't ever want to return to the old ways. One interesting thing that we do here (and always have) is to differentiate between dressed and undressed timber. Your favorite 4'' x 2'' is referred to 100 x 50 in its undressed form but 90 x 42 when it's dressed.
People that are used to imperial rely on round numbers and easy divisible lengths so they don't have to subtract 12' 4/17" from 23' 2/5". But in metric you don't have this problem, so even if the material sizes are awkward, you can easily deal with it.
It's not "obvious" that Ben's concerns about Canadian material sizes existed in Australia. The Canadian forests supply the United States' market that demands imperial. Did Australia manufacture building materials for a larger external market that demanded imperial units? (!) p.s.: It's weird when people who have only used one system say it is "so much better" without offering any reasons why, and that is totally unconvincing.
When Canada switches and plans use numbers meant for 1200mm sheets, that's time spent cutting 20mm off. Or Canada can spend extra time and storage space producing 1200mm for domestic use, and 1220 mm for domestic remodels, and also for export. Canadian stores will need more space stocking both sizes.
@@johnhawkinson I can assure you John I have used both systems - I am retired now bur spent my entire working life in the Architectural profession. The first 10 years or so were spent in the imperial era and after that it was metrics. Obviously measurement was very important to me and as I say, the metric system is quite superior. There is a slight learning curve but no big deal. Sizes for building materials was never an issue and you will find that our sizes are/were much the same as USA.
In Ukraine only metric is using. But we have one exclusion it's "inch board" is using for 25mm boards all others are in millimeters. Only water pipes in inches but sewerage pipes are in millimeters)
I would say you don't need to learn metric, it is based on everything else we use, 10's, 80cm is 800mm, you just add a 0 to convert it, 8.4cm is 84mm, you just move the decimal point. I can't understand why anyone would think that, for example. 2.35m (or 235cm or 2350mm) is worse than that same measurement of 7'8 17/32. As you said, this is about why you use it which is fine, but when everything else is based on a decimal system which is used by the vast majority of the planet it doesn't make sense. That said the UK is still a bit of a mish mash, but mainly with road distances all still being in MPH, which I guess would just cost a fortune to change every road sign.
All that said: when you use metric, just use Millimeters like engineers do in all drawings and problem solved. Counting fractions in inches is just crazy for me
In Australia we still say 4 x 2 every now and then but they were actually 90 X 45mm. That's really the only one where we still call it by it's imperial size. All or sizes are to the 10mm. X 35/45mm
Yes, it's entirely relative to what you are used to. Here in the UK I will happily shop for a "3 by 2" (a hold over from the old days), but if I ever have to think about the actual size of that timber the only thing that comes to mind is 70x47mm. Sheets of plasterboard are 1200x2400mm. Sure they may be weird numbers, but hey, once you get used to anything it's not a problem.
We’re not “irritated metric folk”. Metric is the main measurement unit for the rest of the world. As an Aussie who generally looks upon Canadians as cousins, I feel a bit insulted. We changed overnight (so to speak) to a modern measurement system and as an Architect metric is the most practical system. Love your channel BTW
There is no "38x89" measurement in metric lumber. You buy a 45 x 90 as framing timber (different for dressed-all-round machined timber). It's just what the suppliers have their equipment calibrated to. If Aussie tradies managed to cope then I'm 100% that Canadians can work it out. Just ignore those southern imperialists LoL.
You just said Australian framing is sized in simpler metric numbers like 45 x 90. It's easier to cope with metric when many materials come sized to the nearest 5 or 10. That's not the situation with many materials in Canada.
@@rozinant1237 Presumably because they are converting timber already cut to imperial measurements. In metric countries the timber is cut to metric measurements like 45 x 90 not 38 x 89 or whatever. It must be a bit of a pain for Canadians having to deal with a split system....maybe a bit like using French or English language depending on where you live.
I think you are misunderstanding. There is nothing to convert. Almost all residential buildings in Canada are built to imperial measurements because as was stated, we export about 70% of our softwood lumber products to the USA. A 2x4 ( it’s nominal dimension) has an actual dimension of 1.5” x 3.5” (which on a “hard” conversion equates to 38 x 89). Carpenters working in Canada simply measure 1.5” when they are locating a stud.
Hey Ben, sometimes if you go into an old house maybe built in the 1940's you fine 2 by 4's that are actually 2" by 4" . Ever see that? Hope you are well Happy New Year... Cheers
Crushing logic! Adapt to the environment or die reconverting measurements and wasting wood! 😥 I have worked with the metric system all my life until a few years ago, when for reasons of visual reduction 🤓, I started using the imperial system. Although in my case it is the opposite, materials in metric and measurements in inches! As my job allows me, the difference is not noticeable! I do not have to adapt a 122 x 244 cm plywood board, to any particular space (be it 16, 19.2 or 24 inches on center). I currently only use the metric system when building something that needs pinpoint precision. Greetings from the Canary Islands and congratulations for the channel and for the new year! Hopefully it doesn't get spoiled too 🙏! Sorry for my English ... I know!
In Norway 2x4 is 48x98mm, 1 1/2 is 36mm. It's similar in other countries, but slightly different. Some are 50x100, others 45x90. So we often speak of boards as in inches, but it's technically in mm. Examples: 2x4,6,8,10,12 48x98, 148, 198, 250 and 300. We used imperial material up untill the 50-60's. In the 70's I believe, we introduced the 600mm system. Everything is now built according to cc600. Standard finish room height is 240cm. In other countries in Europe I belive it to be 400 and 500. Technical drawings are always in mm. I think Canada and the US will probably never switch over to metric in construction because it would disrupt the system, and make remodeling too difficult. It is though interesting that the space rockets were actually designed in metric, and then drawings translated into imperial. (The Apollo rocket was designed by a German prisoner of war!).
That is not accurate. the Saturn V rocket, and earlier US rockets, were engineered in US Customary units (inches). Werner von Braun complained about it, but it wasn’t until the US started doing space projects with international partners that the engineering was done in Metric units. The flight control software used metric units, but values were converted to Customary for display to the astronauts and for public consumption.
The why is because the previous generations refused to convert and used the US trade to help defer transition. Just to note.. metric is the official measurement system in the states too they just don't want to change
Even if somehow things changed, a 2x4 will always be called a 2x4. 2x4 isn’t even correct now anyways. It’s at this point a colloquial staple. Who needs metric when you have 3/4 heavy and 31-1/2 light?
After working on homes for just over 40 years, I get asked often from people who were not born in the US, "I grew up using metric, its easy why don't you use it", my come back, "I grew up with Imperial, why don't you use it?"...
Re: "The US isn't going to metric any time soon..." when I was in K-2nd grade, we were learning BOTH sets of measurements because "the whole world will use the metric system by our bicentennial." That was from 1973 - 1976. That "no time soon" thing is an understatement. 🤣
Also, The conservative government that came to power in Canada in 1984 abolished the metric conversion. There was a lot of public backlash to the switch in Canada at that time.
Here in Ottawa, we got screwed building a house with a block foundation. The house was 28' x 48'. All of the other building material were imperial measurements. 2x4s 16" o.c. to line up with 4' x 8' sheets of plywood or OSB and drywall, etc. But the blocks weren't 16", they were 400mm. The joints would've been too wide to space them out to make up 16", so we ended up having to cut a small piece on each course of block on all four walls to make it come out right.
That’s odd, because the US blocks of nominal 16” length are 15.625” which is 397 mm. That size is suppose to result in 16” spacing with the joint. Even if your blocks were 3 mm longer, They could still be set at 16” spacing with a slightly thinner joint.
@@GH-oi2jf In the US, CMU blocks are nominally 16 in (410 mm) long and 8 in (200 mm) wide. Their actual dimensions are 3⁄8 inch (9.5 mm) less than the nominal dimensions (to allow for 3⁄8-inch mortar joints between blocks in any orientation).[7] In Ireland and the UK, blocks are usually 440 mm × 215 mm × 100 mm (17.3 in × 8.5 in × 3.9 in) excluding mortar joints. In Australia, New Zealand and Canada, blocks are usually 390 mm × 190 mm × 190 mm (15.4 in × 7.5 in × 7.5 in) excluding mortar joints.
I worked as a pipefitter for 40 years, most material dimensions are nominal anyway. I worked in whatever system the drawings used. In metric, linear dimensions are in millimeters, elevations are in meters, how do you forget that?
I served my apprenticeship using imperial then had to used metric. To be honest both have there uses and flit between the two when I am working. I see it as two languages really. However I don't know how you would enter imperial sizes in a computer which is standard practise. We do have metric materials. But without being biased metric is easier.
As a holdover from the federal and provincial governments push to encourage the switch to metric in the mid-seventies, both governments required that working drawings drawn for government projects were to be done in Metric. That is still the requirement to this day.
Personally, imperial totally makes sense for framing, drywall, etc. However for smaller "woodworking " projects, metric is awesome! (I suck at fractions 😀). Love all your videos man!
I like metric for designing small, accurate parts (eg, for a 3D printer) but even for smaller woodworking projects (where I rarely need to be more accurate than ⅛") I prefer imperial. If you're no good at fractions, you can always treat your inches like metric units: calculating multiples of 0.75" is just as hard as calculating 18mm, so long as you know how to move a decimal place. But imperial has the nice feature that you can *also* work in fractions, and if you're good at it, this can be quite nice. Calculating multiples of ¾" is much nicer than multiples of 0.75" or 18mm.
But one thing that Vancouver Carpenter didn't mention is that we don't tend to use inches and feet on the jobsite. Not together, anyway. The thing that makes imperial complicated is that it has multiple units: inches, feet, miles, etc. So we mostly just stick to one unit: inches. Studs are 16" on centre, not 1'4". My kitchen ceiling is 89½" tall, not 7'5½" tall. When you stick to one unit, it's basically the same as working with metric numbers.
The only time we typically use feet on a jobsite is if it's raw materials that are exact foot measures (eg, a 4x8 sheet of drywall), or if it's a rough estimate (my old apartment had 11' ceilings). If you're hearing feet on a jobsite, it's probably a whole number of feet, not a mix of feet and inches.
If I could go back in time and tell the French how to design the metric system, I'd give them two pieces of advice: Rather than basing the meter off of an incorrect measurement of the circumference of the Earth, just base it off of inches to make it backwards compatible (under that system, the distance from Toronto to Whitehorse would be 222 mega inches) and change our numbering system to dozenal, so we get the benefits of fractions together with the benefits of easily moving decimal places.
@@RickYorgason Well I'm european and I can tell you metric system also has multiple units. length= kilometer, hectometer, decameter, meter, decimeter, centimeter and millimeter. Each of them multiplies by 10 the unit that follows. The same for weight, surface, capacity or volume although in the case of the surface the multiplication is by 100 (square meters) or by 1000 (volume in cubic meters)
@@pedrofmc0000 I'm Canadian. I understand the metric system. We're pretty bi-lingual here when it comes to measurement systems.
We do the exact same thing when we use metric in construction: we never use meters. Plans are always in mm.
Also, engineers have metricized the imperial system: thousands of an inch are common. There's not really any reason the metric system could have used at least one conventional measurement instead of starting everything from scratch.
@@RickYorgason Oh! OK I'm sorry excuse me please.
@@RickYorgason agreed. it seems that for countries where building materials are already made using whole numbers in imperial, decimal-izing inches is a better improvement than starting from scratch.
Here in the UK we have the nightmare scenario of wood panel goods very often being imperial (imported from US/Canada etc) and plasterboard being metric (imported from mainland Europe). So when framing a flat roof you might have to layout on 400mm c/c to suit the plasterboard, and then rip the 2440 OSB decking down to 2400. Similar shenanigans for external stud walls. Madness!
That absolutely is madness. Unfortunate.
Y'all need to get your shit together then hahahah
@@TheTechGuider The British? Never! They will always do everything the other way around ...
For that mess a spaceship crashed on Mars.
Why are you matching the framing to the drywall instead of the sheathing? The drywaller is going to have to cut every sheet anyways. Your walls hardly ever fall on layout, and even exterior walls have to be cut to account for the thickness of the walls. The only exception is the odd very large room on the ceiling.
Here in Australia the old 2x4 became a 45mmx90mm (also available is 45x70 and sometimes 45x140 etc, but they are more as beams rather than framing). We have 35mm wide timber for lighter framing in 70mm, 90mm etc as well. It is weird how these varied around the world.
Board is often made on 400mm centres which is 15 3/4". Precut timber lengths are usually in 300mm increments, e.g 2400, 2700, 3000, 3300 etc.
2 by 4 = 3 syllables, 4 characters
45 by 90 = 5 syllables. 6 characters
In construction, what exactly is gained by doing things in metric, besides all the extra syllables and characters?
What is gained is is the lack of balls ups .no fractions .
Multiple of tens heaps easier.
@@Dev-lc4cd This is the strangest argument I've heard yet...
"three mil"
"one thirty-second of an inch"
What's gained is that it's a consistent, proportion measurement system that works in base-ten format like our entire modern maths system. Nothing needs to be memorised, no odd conversions and fractions need to be known. If you can count, then you can measure.
1mm, 2mm, 3mm, 4mm, 5mm
1/32", 3/64", 1/16", 5/64", 1/8"
@@khdownes1 Something that small is usually called a "hair" of some sort. LOL
@@jhalleck I prefer my measurements in "whiskers" or "bee's dicks" haha
Here in Norway we have 2x4'' as 48x98mm, 2x6'' as 48x148mm and so on. Stud centers are on 600mm, sheet material comes in 1200mm x 2400mm, 2600mm... insulation is 570mm width in rolls or 570mm x 1200mm as plates.
Windows and doors are at even numbers such as 1000mmx2100mm for a door or 1200mmx1200mm for a window ( it's a hole size, actually all frames are 12mm short at width and height to make it easier to install. That works just fine, same as imperial. Material dictates the method of calculation.
I struggled with this a lot when I moved to Canada from Europe. I'm a basic home DIY'er, and when we purchased our home I was doing some basic reno stuff. I was being stubborn and tried to work in metric, which very quickly led me into some issues. Another problem I ran in to is that I learned the hard way that a 2x4 isn't actually two by four. And plywood isn't exactly the thickness as listed, either. Like, ...what? When I would purchase multiplex (plywood) back home, it came in odd measurements because it was actually still 8x4, but 15mm ply is ...15mm. That still messes me up sometimes.
As a Canadian who does small renovation projects and loves to dabble with woodwork in the garage, I would love to see our building materials and measurements go metric. Millimetres (the base 10 system) make sense to everyone.
Learn your fractions ya bums.
That's fine, but I'm a contractor and I do small renos too, getting materials is much better in Imperial currently. We use very standard lengths of material, and almost any house I reno is going to have studs laid out on 16 inch centres.
Cinder blocks are 8x8x16” nominal, which is the actual size plus the width of one mortar joint. Suppose the finished height of a cinder block were 20 cm, which is 3.2 mm shorter than 8”. Would you think that was a problem if you had to repair a damaged block wall? Or even build a new wall that connected to an old wall?
I remember the teachers in my school would always say they wished we would convert to the metric system in the United States. The rest of the world uses the metric system.
@@Eger118877 That's because teachers don't measure anything for a living. Anything "mission critical" we already do in metric.
I like your coverage of the issue. I have worked on major projects both North of the Border and South and have even worked some projects in California in the time that they went metric. Both systems are ok and have their positives and negatives. The one positive that you gave short credit to is the easier ability to divide evenly in a base 12, 16, or 32 system. With the imperial system one can subdivide any of the whole number units into 12, 6, 4, 3, or 2 even divisions easily. Something that is not possible with the base 10 metric system. It is much more friendly to division without a calculator.
Not entirely getting this concept. There is no need to even attempt base 16 or 32 with metric because something that measures 108mm is just exactly that: 10cm and 8mm and with exact precision. You wouldn't call it 10cm and 8/10mm you just say 108. With imperial you are forced to fraction to get the same measurement (4 1/4 here) because you just wouldn't call something 17/4's or am I missing what you're saying?
How do you really divide a 4" length into 3 equal parts?
Your base of 12 only helps to divide feet into inches, it doesn't help to divide inches.
Besides, it all depends on the measurements of the materials. There's a reason why sheet goods here are mostly 6, 12, 18 or 24 mm (18 being the most common, similar to 3/4"). It's just easy to work with these numbers.
@@NickRgibbs Ok, first sorry for not being clear, that’s on me not you. There really is two things mixed in my earlier post. For inches and up there is a benefit to it being a base 12 system. So, for that, a person can divide the whole units into halfs, quarters, thirds, sixths, and twelfths. In base 10 one is limited to halfs, fifths, or tenths. This has a benefit when one is in a position to do this in your head vs with a calculator and maintain accuracy. You just have a few more commonly needed options while keeping things exact. When one is working with measurements below the inch it would be great if it was also base 12 for computational reasons but for practical/historical reasons it is based on the concept of progressively halving the measurement. A process that is relatively simple to do in the physical world… it just unfortunately throws a wrench in the works when doing the math.
In reality the best possible case would probably have been if while adopting the metric system the French would have kept the base 12 system and incorporated that with all the other very logical and systematic parts of the metric system. Something that was a very real possibility. If you think that there is no way the SI system could be anything other than base 10 I would encourage you to go watch Numberphile and their “Base12” video on RUclips. You have to hang in to the ~7min mark though.
@@sanderd17 You are not wrong... I should not have thrown in the 16 and 32 in the early post as you are correct that it is not the ability to subdivide those... see my other response to Nick that hopefully clarifies what I was intending....
@@davidruss7702 You have a valid point and it makes more sense having had it explained. I have either seen that video before or watched another video of base number systems because this wasn't completely new when I watched it now. I agree that a small measurement benefits from being easily split into multiple fractions rather than base 10 which can only be halved or fifth-ed easily. I do think though that industries that use the metric system have just moved their "standard size" to be more accommodating to such fractions. BTW I'm Canadian and work in Canada using the SI system for everything other than baking and construction. I like the precision of it but when I am forced to use SI at work I'm just not used to it and am constantly converting things. And my cousin is an electrician (mostly commercial) and uses SI for everything. I was helping him do some DIY work and while I loved the accuracy of the SI measurement, it doesn't help if you cut something a full 1m short because you aren't used to the tape measure.
In UK we use both metric and imperial. We will always refer to them as 4 x 2 but it is actually a nominal measurement. For cutting metric is so much easier.
Same in australia
I once built a metric house in Revelstoke BC, a building package where all the materials were supplied in metric sizes. Being able to work in both scales fluently from my science days, I really liked the accuracy of metric. Yay, no fractions! GK
Couple interesting thoughts. I'm a Machinist, and machinists in Canada also work primarily in imperial. For a couple similar reasons. The first being stock sizes. Other than a few specialty products such as chromed shafting for hydraulic cylinders, it is very hard to get metal of any sort in metric sizes. The second reason is that machine tools can last for many decades (it's not uncommon to see 50-80 year old lathes still in daily use) and some of my precision measurement tools are upwards of 100 years old. Often handed down or bought from someone retiring. Because micrometres and lathes and such rely on precision screws to measure and move, they can only operate in the system they are built for. And all of these old tools and machines have inch screws. I have only ever seen one metric lathe in person in my whole life.
So what that means is the only things machinists do in metric are metric threads, and holes small enough to make with a metric drill. Everything else is converted from MM to thousands of an inch and made as if it's an imperial measurement.
Also on a side note I have a friend who's an estimator at PCL and I find it amusing how he talks about concrete volume in cubic meters but then finishing and coatings by square foot
The funny thing about this is that you still use decimals rather than fractions, so you guys are kind of a "hybrid". :D
@@dienekes4364 Seems that way, but "metric" and "decimal" are two different things. Engineers and machinists have been using decimal or "engineering" inches since the 1850s, well before the metric system gained widespread acceptance. Interestingly, when Thomas Jefferson was George Washington's Secretary of State in the 1790s, he pushed for the adoption of the metric system. To me the funny thing is that if Jefferson had gotten his way, the US could have been the first nation to adopt the Metric System instead of the last.
@@christopherdahle9985 Yes, I'm aware of that.
@@christopherdahle9985 _"but "metric" and "decimal" are two different things"_ -- I didn't say they were. I said they were both used in decimal format. That's the extent of my post. But thanks for assuming I was too ignorant to understand the difference.
@@dienekes4364 Actually I assumed you had more knowledge than the average bear. I just thought you might be interested to know that at the same time we were decimalizing our currency in the 1790s, the US nearly did adopt the metric system, and it might have happened except that the ship which was delivering a set of calibrated standards to Thomas Jefferson was attacked by pirates. The metric standards went down with the ship.
🤣 as a Canadian tile-setter (weirdo) ,i use both , i do room layout in imperial but i have a Italian snap tile cutter with metric on the guide, also most tiles are metric many tiles sold as 1' x 2" foot tiles are usually the smaller 30 cm x 60 cm . So the combination tape measure is what i always use.
But you're not weird. You are using metric because you are often using metric materials. That's just pragmatic. But I shouldn't sell you short. Maybe you are delightfully weird in other ways😂
Yeah we all gotta use metric for tile in Canada because of materials and Italian equipment!
Masterpiuma?
I don't understand how you stand using a combination tape. Don't you use both sides of a tape?
@@304spencer I never use combo tapes
I like to use mm for very precision cutting work like stain grade trim, tile cuts etc
yeah, I have been thinking about this, not for precision though. I normally cut trim to the 32nd, (builder grade trash). but I find it time consuming and occasionally, causing errors, to write out so many fractions on a small cut list, and I find when I have to scratch out and rewrite a number (because I am a carpenter, not a secretary), I have trouble reading what I have wrote, now it's much smaller and no longer on the line.
Also, I am thinking about moving to a tablet for cut lists (as my laser tape is bluetooth), and that would make writing in fractions inconvenient, for distances that my laser tape can't capture.
but... my laser tape could just output in mm. I could measure in mm. I could enter numbers on my tablet or my phone in mm. I could add or subtract all the numbers I need in a systematic way for headers in mm (using excel and fill column).
Gotta figure out how to do it without my boss finding out though, because I expect some screwups while learning :D
@@timmietimmins3780 100% dude switch to mm for that. I don’t think you will encounter as many screwups as you think. In fact I think you will instantly have a reduction in screwups due to fraction mistakes. It’s so much simpler than imperial!
@@conradcoolerfiend once you are used to working with the fractions you don't even think about it. Depends what you are used to.
@@chrisburns5691 read the other guys comment. For those types of things , mm is objectively better.
@@conradcoolerfiend i disagree. I'm a carpenter and do finishing work all the time. No issues. I've tried a metric tape and didn't care for it.
On a box of nails, the letter D is used to denote pennyweight because it comes not from the English penny, but the ancient Roman denarius. Just a little insight to how resistant carpenters are to change.
The inch was the length of the king's big toe or 3 kernels of corn laid end to end.
When you have a notation that works, why would you change it?
Cool video, I was wondering why the Canadian carpenters still used imperial, makes sense though. I’m an American and used to be an auto body tech. I (we) only used the metric system to measure and really grew to like it. Since all modern vehicles are all in metric, as well as all of the frame straightening companies, it only makes sense to use metric; like the flip side to the point you’re making about carpentry, lumber, and imperial measurements. My garage/car related toolbox has metric tape measures and my home project toolbox has ‘Mercian tape measures. 🇨🇦🇺🇸
Glad to learn this. I just assumed you used metric. Just in case no one has told your recently, you are doing great. Made me chuckle.
Thank you!
"In September of 1999, after almost 10 months of travel to Mars, the Mars Climate Orbiter burned and broke into pieces. On a day when NASA engineers were expecting to celebrate, the ground reality turned out to be completely different, all because someone failed to use the right units, i.e., the metric units! The Scientific American Space Lab made a brief but interesting video on this very topic."
This is what can happen when only 3 countries on earth refuse to convert to the metric system. Myanmar and Liberia are the other two.
Actually you dont need to go that far few years back a canadian flight ran out of fuel and crash landed the reason was changing the fuel tanks to metric and the pilot thought he had that volume in imperial
@@fahmywaleed the "Gimli Glider"... interesting story... though it was nearly 40 years ago...
Thank you for pronouncing it tuba four. Larry Haun would be proud
There shouldn't be any other way to say it!!!!
4x2 in Australia is 90 x 40 mm. Remember you get variation in lumber dimensions. Our lumber are in 5 and 10mm sizes. MM variations are not an issue working in metric. 100 x45, 200 x 50, 145 x 45 do not present as a problem. In Australia we have products in imperial and we need to work out the conversion. We have to work with both is some cases. Great conversation subject. Australia at least has 240v power LOL.
I would like to know what the standard size is for a sheet of plywood in Australia and what numbers you use when laying out studs on centers. I'm totally guessing that what we call a 4x8 sheet would be 1200 x 2400, and that you'd lay out studs on 400 or 600 mm centers (close to 16" or 24" center to center). I've looked in vain for a metric tapemeasure in the US laid out solely in metric units and including the standard sorts of markings we see in the US to help with layout.
Ninety Forty is good! And everything in simple 5s and 10s is good. That common sense would catch on.
@@christopherdahle9985 its indeed 1200 x 2400 with 600 cc. Think they also sell 900x2400 and in that case it is 450 cc
@@scania9786 Thank you for the interesting and useful information. 900mm is close to 5 feet, so I suppose that is why high quality European sheet good such as Baltic Birch ply, and Valchromat MDF (if you can find it at all) are sold in the US in 5' x 5' sheets. It still troubles me that I can't find a purely metric tape measure anywhere in the US, only ones with Imperial measurements where they have added a metric scale to one edge, making them awkward for accurate use if you have to measure and mark on the "other edge".
"Officially" the US HAS adopted the metric system, and some things are absolutely required to be marketed in metric units (two liter soda bottles, etc) But as a practical matter, industry just labels most things in both units. Again, the metric units appear as an afterthought.
At one time I thought the gasoline (petrol) industry would start selling fuel by the liter as a way to disguise rising prices. And that would be a pretty easy change to make... a couple of changes to the software that controls the electronic pumps. But it hasn't happened.
Cheers!
In Germany/Europe we use imperial in a few cases, where it’s still standard. For instance in plumbing the tube diameters are measured in inches. The same is true in the IT, where the monitor size is specified in inches. In sciences for good reasons metrical is used worldwide.
Wood / lumber is in weird sizes here in Europe too and it is never a problem, so I don't think that argument makes a lot of sense. Also wood dimensions (even MDF) are never truly accurate, so it doesn't matter anyway. I think the reason imperial is used is because imperial was used in the past and you have a lot of contact with the USA (although it has more to do with the workforce being able to switch over between countries than wood sizes).
The fractions in imperial make adding way more complicated than it needs to be. There is no doubt this stubbornness costs a significant amount of money to countries still using imperial. It causes mistakes and deters people who are bad at fractions from the trade.
I have moved from Vancouver to US for 25yrs, I still look at the km/h on my speedometer, Celsius on my weather app, and kg on my scale... and I still spell ~os with ~ous, and pronounce "Z" as "zed"..... When I build things for my own use, I draw the plan in metrics.... Metrics is just more friendly, eh
I think you forgot the part about (aboot) the beaver being a truly proud and noble animal, a toque is a hat, and a chesterfield is a couch. I moved to the US 7 years ago, and also still use km/h for speed and Celsius for temperature, but I never did have a good fundamental idea of what a kg was, vs a pound. I could more easily visualize and mentally multiply a pound of butter. Most of the people I work with are from metric countries as well, and they're always slightly amused but slightly confused when they actually know what temperature I'm talking about (as I guess they usually assume I'm American not Canadian). I'm beginning to get into machining as a hobby, and I'm torn whether I should be measuring in thousandths or tenths (of thousandths) of an inch, or microns...
One of my favorites is that metric is more accurate. Since a mm is about 1/25” and people go to war (I merely obsess) over 1/64” vs 1/32” vs 1/16” accuracy the “more accurate” claim doesn’t really work. But the thought of working in metric sure is appealing when I have to add 15/16”, 9/64”, and 3 and a half inches. But that’s what pencils and offcuts are for. Thanks for the video.
It's not "more accurate" so much as "easier and quicker to be more accurate" since metric users tend to be accustomed to very small units like millimeters, milliliters, and milligrams versus imperial users.
Easier to do math accurately and/or with old computers
it's not more accurate. fractions are used when "accuracy" is not needed. when it is, in the US, we use the decimal imperial system. They are all just made up things that we have agreed on. The advantage to those who use/learn the imperial system is the better understanding of factions (for average person).
@@Ramdodge582 You do realize that fractions and decimal numbers are exactly the same thing, right? 1/2 = 0.5, 1/4 = 0.25, 1/8 = 0.125. Both are accurate representations of values greater than 0 but less than 1.
@@aaron74 no I didn't know that, that's weird..
Seriously dude, no one is using fractions for 0.0002"
I almost commented a few days ago about how much I appreciated you being Canadian, but not using the metric system
Metric is the best for many things like modeling since it’s very precise and easy to use for small items. Imperial is still the easiest system to use in carpentry. The best thing is to be comfortable with both systems and use the one you need depending on what you do!
This is the way. Learn both, use both and stop whining on the internet about it.
There's no such thing as "being proficient in metric" though. There is no learning curve to the metric system.
The only reason you feel like there's a learning curve is because you're thinking in metric as a conversion from empirical because all your materials are still in empirical. And the only reason that is a learning curve is because empirical is such an odd measuring system (albeit, you that you're used to).
Annoyingly though, even when suppliers switch to metric, it still has remnants of the empirical system to make your calculations a little harder (studs are 90 x 45 instead of 100 x 50, because things need to retrofit into existing builds etc.)
Why do people imagine that a decimal based system makes them smarter? Kids, you are back to counting on your fingers. Our carpenter is using way more of his brain but also using a system that makes his job easier.
@@atrifle8364 I think having an argument about which system is meant to be better is kind of redundant at this point. I just want to point out that the reason a lot of people who are used to empirical seem to think metric is confusing is only because they're treating metric as a conversion from empirical, instead of just seeing it as it's own thing.
It's like if I tried to speak a English by forming a sentence in Italian, then translating each of those words to English in my head. Instead of just... speaking and thinking in English...
You said empirical 4 times in your comment - it's imperial. Starts with an "I" and there's no "c".
@@zapadeeboom Yeah my bad. I get the pronunciation confused all the time because both terms relate to data/observation/measurement
I use decimals with imperial measurements when creating layouts that require precision to find centers, drill bit sizes, saw and router setups etc.
Having a machinist background this makes sense to me.
Fractions work but clumsy when doing tight precision work.
That's why the 64th exists. lol
Metric is what Decimal Imperial measurement systems are trying to be. You can find centres using metric just as easily.
@@flboy77 Why I use a vernier caliper. 😂
@@jhalleck 🤣
One often overlooked driver of drawing buildings in imperial is the lowly lay-in ceiling tile grid. Standardized at 2’ x 4’, they could easily be changed to say 600 x 1200, unfortunately now you can’t use a standard drop-in light fixture. Metric fixtures are available, but require metric tubes and you can see where we are headed……
600x 1200 ceiling grid fits standard lights .
@@robert_wylie How?
Stick with where you are. Imperial works better for building e.g. a course of bricks (Inc the mortar) is 3 inches. CLS much easier in imperial. UK is supposed to be metric but the numbers aren't practical apart from where you might need 4 digit mm precision. Funny my new year's resolution was to buy a new mattress. The width sizes to choose from are still imperial in multiples of 6 inches. So imperial is all about multiples of a few fundamentals. Just what you need for building to make things line up. Metric tries to be precise with lots and lots of digits. Great video thanks.
Cool thing about imperial is I most often need centers (halves), which is doubling the denominator (bottom). Half of 7/8ths? 7/16ths. No division or decimals needed.
Cool thing about metric is that most of the material AND designs is made to multiplies of 200 or 300 mm.
@@joansparky4439 Both systems have easy mathematical shortcuts.
I've been looking for an easy way to halve something like 7 5/8. This is a multistep process for me and drives me nuts. I end up converting to decimals and then back to fractions.
@@RB-hj7qc Since half of 7 is 3 and half, I start with the 5/8th part... 5/16th is half of that, plus 8/16ths for the half from the 3 and...results in 3 13/16th. In other words, it's easiest for me to start with the fraction as that gives you the denominator, so getting half of those streamlines the process. Let's get more complicated with this two digit odd number my SO will now give me, 67 3/4, 3/8ths and 4/8ths is 7/8ths, so 33 7/8ths is half. Half of that is 16 15/16. Half of that is 8 15/32. Half that is ridiculous for my work!
@@RJFerret OMG, that makes my head explode. lol
I agree, building materials are better in imperial... but i like the simplicity of metric tools, nuts and bolts, etc... and im from the US.
Right tool for the job, they both have merits and everyone should learn both. Fractions are easier to divide mentally and you don't lose information (decimals) like metric, saw kerfs are 3/32 or 1/8 thin kerf, feet and inches are easier to visualize so imperial is a better system for rough carpentry. Cabinet work is easier in metric laying out panels from a blueprint using just mm where there is no figuring out to do. For anything scientific that has to be put in a formula then metric all the way. Use the tool that works better in that specific circumstance.
Bar fractions are easier to divide into a standalone fraction, but harder to add, subtract, divide, multiply, and overall integrate with other fractions-it's harder to immediately know whether 9∕32in. is bigger or smaller than 1∕4in. and to add them, but immediately easy to tell that 280 mm is bigger than 250 mm and add them up.
Feet and inches are only easier for _you_ to visualize because you're more accustomed to them; in most countries, it's the opposite because everyone uses metric near-exclusively.
Metric in New Zealand and it's so easy. A sheet of plasterboard/drywall known down here as gib board is a simple 2400mmX1200mm 10mm or 13mm thick (common size). So studs placed 600mm centres is needed.
Plywood, chipboard, the same size again it's your common size. MDF seems to be slightly different, 18mm thick 2440mmX1220mm, I have no idea why MDF is bigger.
I can understand the point you make about the dimensions of wood it makes sense to still use imperial. Even with framing timber for studs ours measure 50mmX100mm rough then we buy them dressed at 45mmX90mm. A beam in a typical house 90mmX300mm, give or take.
So all metric does is count in 5, 10, 100mm but a lot of us still call that 2X4 yes a 2X4 I guess it's stapled to our brains, but imperial/metric one is not better than the other, like you said it depends on the measurements of the timber.
I would like to hear from some of our American mates will the U.S go metric and is there anybody from the states that uses metric?
In the states, most sheet goods are 48 x 96 inches (4 x8 feet) but we can get MDF and some other things in 49x97. I can't speak to why, but my theory is that having that extra is good if your shop has a big CNC router table. Just a little bit extra in case the edges get dinged up or the sheet gets put in crooked. To my knowledge, all those size of materials are also available in plain 4x8 sheets
@@thefack149 thank you for replying.
Dude no one uses millimeters. We use centimeters. 30 cm is a foot. period. 5 cm is 2 in. 1 mm is close to 1/32nd
In Australia the powers that be decreed that in the building industry we would use metres and millimetres. Centimetres we’re not to be used. A bit short sighted in my view, particularly when the manufacturers of tape measures etc calibrated most of them in centimetres! Of course the clothing trades etc use centimetres so this added to the confusion. Now it’s been around for many years it’s easy to work out the context and convert - it’s only a decimal place after all. I was raised on imperial but now use metric and am comfortable with the conversions. I still think it takes longer to add 3/8 to 5/16 than add 10mm to 8mm. For correct accurate conversions though one inch is 25.4mm. So 30cm is not actually a foot if you are doing joinery - 30.48 cm is a foot!
😁 5327mm, shout out 53..27 to the bloke that cuts. Worked for 30+yrs now.. Fast and no mishaps. 5meter 32,7centimeters is due to misshearing, then it's cluster feck if it turns out short..
@@graemebardsley-smith4394 Not being very smart, I can't tell if 3/8 is larger than 5/16 until I convert it to 6/16.
It’s the same argument for using fractions vs decimals. Decimals are easier but when you are thinking about quantities and how you actually divide them up fractions are real world. You don’t divide an apple into .6, you divide an apple in half, in quarters, in thirds, you cut a board in half or in eighths. Metric and decimals are not natural measurements. They are based on lengths of wavelengths of light. Not the length of a thumb or a foot or real objects. People think in apples and oranges not wavelengths of light. The only downside of imperial is it’s not based on 10. If a foot was based on 10 inches that would greatly simplify things. Why they picked 12 doesn’t make a lot of sense. Unless you consider the number of ways you can divide 12. You can divide 12 in half, in quarters, in thirds, in sixths, it’s highly divisible. 10 is not very divisible. Half or tenths and that’s it. So maybe 12 was the perfect number, for fractions. That’s why our system is so non metric / decimal friendly.
Twelve isn’t that weird or arbitrary. Our clock, degrees of a circle, and calendar months are 12.
Base twelve is from the Babylonians (I’m pretty sure) who would count their finger knuckles (3 per finger, times 4 fingers = 12) using their thumb as a pointer. Then with the other hand you can indicate how many “twelves” you have counted, so 1 finger is 12, 2 is 24… all the way up to 60. I’m not sure I’m explaining it super well but Google counting to 12 with finger knuckles.
I always done metric here in Sweden, but still some foldables has inches and metric.
My OCD brain results into I always give or if I cutting, in millimeters.
Would be a steep learning curve if I would had to use inches, 1/8- 1/64 would be foaming around my mouth 🤣🤣
But anyhow, as long as the length etc get up straight and in level it's happy days.
In Central Europe the funny thing is that some things comes pure in metrics sizes, but some sheet goods have size just rounded to metric from imperial. OSB (small) is 1220 mm x610 mm, while MDF comes 1200 mm x 600 mm :D To be honest, it would be good to agree on 2x4 an 4x8 and keep actual sizes constant in both systems. So the same trick works. Nevertheless, it's framing or furniture. Luckily, you really don't go to Mars in wooden starship :D As the guy who was born and raised in the place where there is only a metric I have no problem with imperial measures. Imperial works as good as metric in terms of "execution" as long as you don't mix the systems. The funny thing though is that in general you have this grammar purists (in each language) who try to fight everyone's grammar on the Internet. Is metric/imperial purists the same for woodworking/construction?
Because our materials are in inches, and we share them across the border. Also our tradies are used to it and most Canadian measurements are mixed in some way regardless.
Fractions are pretty cool once you learn them too. People who Google-translate metric into decimalized inches are the devil 🤣, the worst of both worlds.
Never been in a machine shop eh?
Mr. Dan, There was a reply here referring to the use of decimal inches in machine shops and I started to respond that decimal inches to the nearest thou in an original design are quite different from "decimalized inches" which come from a plan converted from metric to imperial. If a thing is designed to metric measurements, it's much easier to fabricate in metric even if you are used to Imperial. For example if a wooden panel is supposed to be 325 x 750 x 25 mm, I would not ever try to convert that to 13.77952755905512 x 29.52755905511811 x 0.984251968503937 inches. Instead, I'd either mark out the piece with a metric rule, or I'd redesign the entire project to work out to common fractions of inches.
After 45 years bouncing from the trades to math and science education, and now as an instructor in the trades I can pretty fluidly work in inches, fractional inches, decimal inches, or metric units, but I agree that there is a special circle in hell for anyone who decimalizes metric plans, and they are doomed to spend that eternity with the people who metricize imperial plans.
As a Machinist I'd much rather see thou than 1/128ths
@@geoffflato6065 Does that even happen? I mean, does any machinist or engineer anywhere ever use non-decimal fractional units. I'm no machinist at all, but I've never seen a non-decimal fractional scale on a machine tool and I can't imagine trying to mill some part to some fraction like "63/512." How would you even try to set that up on a mill?
In building houses and commercial structures, I've rarely seen a blue print with measures called out to anything smaller than an 8th, and any woodworking plan that specifed a dimension closer than 1/32 would be crazy. My calipers can measure in decimals to the nearest 0.0005, but they won't read fractions past a 64th
@@carlip Sure looks like it. LOL
I personally use imperial for anything carpentry related and metric for the CAD models I design. For whatever reason despite the fact that I grew up with imperial units it's easier for me to use millimeters when I work on 3d models.
Agree, my cnc machines and 3d printers were designed and calibrated in metric. Especially on the 3d printers, weird things happen with layer height and wall thickness if I make the machine try to approximate imperial measurements. So I use metric units for anything designed for those machines. But if I am designing a kitchen or a dining table, I use imperial units in Sketchup.
As an “older” Canadian, I was raised on the Imperial system. I can imagine a newbie who was raised on the Metric system wanting to use it in the trades but just about every building is built on the Imperial system. All the building material is cut to Imperial measurements. If you know the metric equivalents then you may get away with using the Metric system. This is one old dog who will not be learning new tricks as far as building is concerned. lol
As a now Canadian retired electrician who worked my entire apprenticeship and a bit in Imperial. From house building to hi-rise to cabinets and furniture changed to metric SI. All drawings were in metric. Within a few weeks to months, carpenters, plumbers, sheet metal, electricians, draftsmen and designers would tell they would never go back to Imperial. I don't care what off the shelf materials dimensions are, you are breaking down materials. Measure and cut in metric, so much easier.
I am an American, and my father in law is Polish. We were framing a house in TX over Christmas... speaking German to each other :). Anyway, he's quite familiar with inches, although he didn't know it. The Germans call inches a Zoll, and use it somewhat regularly in construction.
I own metric tapes and sticks, but also imperial. I draw in small CAD (3D printing) in metric, large CAD (houses) in imperial, and build engines on however the manufacturer built it. Both types of measurement serve a purpose, and both are quirky. Next lets talk about machinist calipers which are base 10 imperial...
Love your show and have learned a lot. Thanks for that. Great information, great expertise, and a good amount of humour. But for the life of me I cannot understand why you say adding fractions is intuitive. In cabinet installations we work to a 32nd. How can you easily add, say, 11/16 + 3/32 + 3/4 without spending a lot of time on it? I would take decimals any day.
just convert to all 32nds - (11/16 * 2/2 => 22/32) + 3/32 + (3/4 * 8/8 => 24/32) = 49/32. I'll admit I had to stop and think about the 3/4 to 24/32, but once you put everything in 32ndths, it's just as easy as adding mms together. If your unit is going to be 32ndths, then keep it all consistent and don't use mixed denominators in your fractions.
Worked in a welding shop. Clients would send in blue prints in either metric or imperial but when we sent finished products out some stuff got returned cause somebody tired to convert the measurements and when converting from imperial to metric or vice-versa it doesn't work out properly. Also I found the daul side tape measures suck it's best to buy 2 tape measures one metric and one imperial this way you can read either side of the tape
Hey Ben. In Europe and other places, well anywhere but the US/Canada. Lumber is milled to fit the metric dimension thus a 2x4 in Norway is actually closer to a real 2 x 4 inch (1.89 x 3.86) measurement where as in Canada/US it is 1.5 x 3.5. Thus the numbers work out when working in metric. In other words, the US/Canada is shafting the public by short changing on their product. And for layout purposes you use 60cm o/c multiples.
No, we are not. Everybody knows that “2x4” is a nominal size, not an actual size. The actual size was standardized about a hundred years ago, when lumber sizes varied by region. The 2x4 is a structural component. The optimal size is one which makes it strong enough for its intended purpose, but not so much stronger than necessary so as to be a waste of material. Wood frame construction is a mature art, and if established conventions are followed, you can expect that the structure will be sound. That is what you want from a building material. It is advantageous that the dimensions be standardized, but there is no value at all to having the dimensions be whole inches.
I was introduced to the Metric system in 4th grade (1974, USA). Dear teacher assured us that we needed to know this because “in 5 years, the USA is going to convert to metric” 😂. I see her on a regular basis and ask how that project is coming.
US auto industry is just now getting there with completely new design but early 80’s was a mess with Imperial chassis and Metric components 😵💫. Metric truly does make sense but I doubt the building trades will switch anytime soon. I worked in a factory using both Metric and Imperial machines and lived by my digital calipers. Fractions really aren’t that bad as you said and the precision tolerances of metric machinery still requires working with decimals so I’ve just learned to roll with it.
Doing cabinets, we will use metric from time to time depending on material and “job conditions”; as it can be easier…..example: doing a custom door that frameless and “hidden” with say sugatune hinges. Well, everything usually in metrics so, it’s just easier to switch over and do the door in metric; as it’s how I was taught and still do this today.
Cheers✌🏻
As a computer scientist, imperial/ freedom units are annoying to work with, because 0.5 miles is 2640 feet, not 500 milli-miles
You are absolutely right, all of our materials are sold in Freedom Units, and stick frame houses (16" centers, 4*8 sheet goods, etc) rely on that. .....I don't really care, and often do certain tasks in metric like tile jobs.
🤣Freedom Units!!!
In the US my job has to do a lot with structural engineering so I use imperial. In fact we took on a project from UK and had to convert all the material in the 3d model from Metric to imperial and it sucked, little things add up. When I design things at home for my 3D printer I tend to use metric because the print head and Z axes is in metric and it just makes the project easier.
Your explanation why you use imperial was spot on ,and thank you for clarify, I was one of those people who wondered why you used imperial in Canada, now I know.
American here. We've been asked the SAME question in the U.S. And the REAL answer is if all of the existing buildings were made with Imperial units, so in order to switch not only would everyone have to start designing and working in metric, but you would have to buy your materials differently as well. Stores like Home Depot would have to start carrying both Imperial and Metric building materials, because homeowners of EXISTING buildings would be looking for those.
Ultimately it comes down to cost. The cost of having to supply two different building materials sizes and also the cost of developers having to remake all of their designs into another system of measurement. It is just cost prohibitive. We are more likely to use km/h and km on the highways and buy gas by the liter than we are to switch to metric for building materials.
Also, in America we use metric MORE than we use the Imperial system. There is this misconception that we only use the Imperial system, but we actually use both. In most industries, especially scientific and international ones, metric is used. As far as switching our highways from miles to km or gas from gallons to liters there is simply no need. What advantage do you get from the switch? Simply to be like everyone else? We already use metric in scientific fields and in international business.
Here in the UK old building are also built in imperial but new material is sold in metric. It can be a bit awkward. They sell metric to imperial adaptors for fixing to old pipe work and sewage systems.
In Australia we still have the Imperial dimensioned materials but expressed in mm so 38x90 is the “ 2x4 dressed “ size and “2400x1200” is 2440x1220… but if you have never been taught Imperial it natural to just use mm for everything p.s. mm is used exclusively in construction. order of magnitude changes cause miss calculation
I'm Canadian and used Imperial since I started woodworking. All my reference material was Imperial. At one point I attempted to switch to metric but it slowed be down and I made mistakes in my math.
Why do conversions? Measure and cut in metric.
Our 8x4 sheets of drywall are 8' × 1.2m unless they are fire or water rated, then they are 1200mm x 2238mm i think. 🤣
When to use metric in measurement. Under 12 inches (mm are easier than fractions for fine work), over 300 feet, and especially at or over 1KM.
The reason I don't like metric tape measures is the mm lines 2 to 4 and 6 to 9 are the same length. The imperial fractional tapes have different lengths making them easier to read with my less than perfect eyes.
In Sweden, we go almost exclusively by metric (at least for carpentry, plumbing is still lagging).
EXCEPT for the old-timers, they still use imperial when when it comes to lumber. For example, when they say 2x4, they're actually talking about 45x95mm.
Why, when it's closer to 50x100mm?
Well, because rough cut lumber is actually closer to 50x100mm, but once planed, it's 45x95mm, which is actually true to size when you're going to the store to pick them up.
Furring strips are typically 28x70, 28x95, 34x70 & 34x95
Great video and explanation. This is something I always wondered about, especially when I’m buying Baltic Birch ply. You also did a great job walking the middle of the road in the never ending debate Metric vs Imperial.😂😂
Looking for one of Ben's videos where he does a quick tour of a place he's working, and shows cabinets HE built and they had this awesome 45 degree frame and 45 degree angled door to match. Anyone? I've looked everywhere.
Hope this brings a smile asked my father same thing when we lived across pond! He has been gone long time & we never did but I still have hope!
Do you feather your edges out to 8 inches....or 203mm? LOL. For those of us who are also naval history fans, we can do the gun calibers back and forth pretty quick - 305mm = 12", 406mm=16", 356mm=14". 57mm=2.25" And so on. Although not "pounders" - those are just silly Brit units. ("Cut me a strip of plywood 17 pounders wide and 4 foot long").
I had the same problem with all nuts, bolts wrenches and other stuff being available in both metric and imperial here in Canada. Later I realized the benefits of both depending on the type of job at hand. I find metric better for large or ultra fine measurements while imperial for mid range measurements. Representing fine measurements in mm instead of inches or variants of it makes metric wins there. However in jobs requiring measurements of walls, boards, frames, installation sites, imperial wins. Again moving a bit higher like farms, roads, lanes, similar measurements metric wins again. It just simply makes more sense to use appropriate units depending on the size or type of job at hand.
A great video and I was curious about this too. The explanation makes sense. I'd say the one and only thing I disagree with is your thought about imperial possibly being easier for laymen. I think that for the average person who doesn't rely on measurement day-to-day, metric is easier because the conversions are straightforward and you avoid fractions altogether. The fractions and such in imperial are not so simple when you're only doing conversions once a week or whatever. A laborer doesn't notice this because he's doing it thousands of times per day; it's just instinct. But the office worker has to really think about it.
Basically, you use the measurement system that corresponds to your materials. Since you can't buy metric materials, you use imperial.
Canadian Lumber heads south, a large portion is export to southern neighbour. British colony was founded with imperial measurements. Legacy makes sense.
I don’t mind imperial when I measure longer distances (like a whole wall), where inch precision is nearly enough.
But when I need to work with 1/16 and 1/32 inches, and divide and multiply them, it quickly becomes a nightmare and use milimeters instead.
1/16+1/32=3/32 done in my head.
1/16=2/32, 2/32+1/32=3/32.
That said I make both sides mad. I use both in the US.
Also, 1/32 in MM is like .8 MM in home construction we are not getting that close, you are not doing it the military way. Measure with a micrometer, mark with a crayon and cut with an axe.
@@marinefoxalpha4499 You never worked in construction, not even a DIY job, if
@@juzoli I don't understand what do you mean? How do you know what I do a living? The right way of saying it is "Have you ever worked in construction?" The answer is yes. Have a good day, was not trying to make you mad, if you took it that way. Fat Max tapes in the field don't have 1/32 that it.
@@marinefoxalpha4499 My assumption is based on that you didn’t have a real life example…
You brought an unrealistic, oversimplified example which never happens in construction. And of course it works fine in very simple examples.
You could use an engineer’s scale of feet, tenths, and hundredths. One hundredth is about 1/8 inch. For finer work, you can measure in inches, tenths, and hundredths, which is about as fine as you can read a rule.
Before retirement I was an optical machinist. In the US all optical engineers use metric measurements but all machinists use imperial measurements. I learned early on to use both, I put it this way my native language is imperial but I can speak metric. (at least for measurements forget weight, temperature volume.....) As far as woodworking goes imperial all the way! Having been a machinist precision is no problem for me in imperial.
That's a great analogy, imperial is my native language but I can speak metric.
I'm totally going to start saying that.
we use metric here but I don't like the use of mm on larger pieces.. it's so much quicker for me to picture 1.8 meters or 90cm over the standard 1800mm and 900mm
We had a guy start with us a few years back, he showed uo after his first week all proud of his new tape measure, just to open it and realize it was 100% metric 😂 he never heard the end of it
Honestly the US should be using metric as well since we formally adopted the metric system years and years ago, I'm horrible with history but I remember a grade school teacher telling us there were "warehouses full of new road signs, etc. I guess it boils down to nobody knowing WTF a kilometer or centimeter is or being able to guess the length of it off the top of our heads
Nope.
Using metric does not make anyone smarter. The imperial system is based in everyday measurements, at a human scale, easily divisible into everything but thirds
Metric is for science labs. It offers the average person no advantage, other than to generally make them dumber while oddly feeling smarter.
The only metric material we have in the UK is plasterboard (drywall) and sometimes OSB. Every chippy here works in metric other than a few old school boys but we use imperial phrases for describing sheet sizes and rough timber dimensions. I'm on a job at the moment where we're about to start sheeting over a Canadian ICF product and the embedded fixing centres are 16" or 8" - makes it a nightmare for metric plasterboard. I've been lining the cabinet walls with ply which is imperial so no problems there!
Canadian glaziers use metric and imperial interchangeably because we have to due to the variety if parts and the other trades we interact with on installs. Makes for a good challenge but everything is within 3mm/ 1/8" regardless.
I'm a graphic artist by trade. I use inches, millimeters, points, picas, agate. I like inches. There are also "metric inch" rulers where inches are broken into 10th instead of 16ths. I never really used them, but it does make going between decimal notation and fractional notation easier. For example 1/10 = 0.10 but 1/16 = 0.0625
Are there countries which have metric building materials? I'd love to know what they have and how they build houses. Like, you wouldn't want 3 meter ceilings. Is it 2.5 meters? What is a metric sheet of plywood? Are their "2x4's" on 50 cm centers? If they don't have 32" and 36" doors, what do they have?
We're in an increasingly rough spot in the USA, it's not good that our kids not only have to learn this archaic, difficult system. They still have to learn metric, and then we also have to constantly convert back and forth. In automotive and fabrication we've basically moved to metric already but construction would be a huge challenge. Even if we totally commited to metric, lumberyards would have to stock both, remodels would be a pain, many carpenters would resist the change (for good reasons) etc... and it's unclear if the future benefits would even be worth it all. I mean, it took a few decades to transition in auto, ag equipment, steel fab. In residential construction it might take a couple centuries.
Very informative. Thank you. However, all through the presentation I could not make myself stop wondering what you were supporting on the wall behind you with that sizeable piece of plywood.
The fastener hardware looked to be laid out in inches.
In Australia we changed to metrics in the early 70s and I can assure you, once you have made the change you will never go back - it's so much better. Your concerns about building material sizes obviously existed here but in reality it wasn't a problem. Timber sizes aren't a concern as it's very easy to adjust the machines accordingly. You will eventually make the change and I am completely confident you won't ever want to return to the old ways.
One interesting thing that we do here (and always have) is to differentiate between dressed and undressed timber. Your favorite 4'' x 2'' is referred to 100 x 50 in its undressed form but 90 x 42 when it's dressed.
People that are used to imperial rely on round numbers and easy divisible lengths so they don't have to subtract 12' 4/17" from 23' 2/5". But in metric you don't have this problem, so even if the material sizes are awkward, you can easily deal with it.
It's not "obvious" that Ben's concerns about Canadian material sizes existed in Australia. The Canadian forests supply the United States' market that demands imperial. Did Australia manufacture building materials for a larger external market that demanded imperial units? (!) p.s.: It's weird when people who have only used one system say it is "so much better" without offering any reasons why, and that is totally unconvincing.
When Canada switches and plans use numbers meant for 1200mm sheets, that's time spent cutting 20mm off. Or Canada can spend extra time and storage space producing 1200mm for domestic use, and 1220 mm for domestic remodels, and also for export. Canadian stores will need more space stocking both sizes.
@@johnhawkinson I can assure you John I have used both systems - I am retired now bur spent my entire working life in the Architectural profession. The first 10 years or so were spent in the imperial era and after that it was metrics. Obviously measurement was very important to me and as I say, the metric system is quite superior. There is a slight learning curve but no big deal. Sizes for building materials was never an issue and you will find that our sizes are/were much the same as USA.
In Ukraine only metric is using. But we have one exclusion it's "inch board" is using for 25mm boards all others are in millimeters. Only water pipes in inches but sewerage pipes are in millimeters)
I would say you don't need to learn metric, it is based on everything else we use, 10's, 80cm is 800mm, you just add a 0 to convert it, 8.4cm is 84mm, you just move the decimal point. I can't understand why anyone would think that, for example.
2.35m (or 235cm or 2350mm) is worse than that same measurement of 7'8 17/32. As you said, this is about why you use it which is fine, but when everything else is based on a decimal system which is used by the vast majority of the planet it doesn't make sense. That said the UK is still a bit of a mish mash, but mainly with road distances all still being in MPH, which I guess would just cost a fortune to change every road sign.
All that said: when you use metric, just use Millimeters like engineers do in all drawings and problem solved.
Counting fractions in inches is just crazy for me
In Australia we still say 4 x 2 every now and then but they were actually 90 X 45mm. That's really the only one where we still call it by it's imperial size. All or sizes are to the 10mm. X 35/45mm
Yes, it's entirely relative to what you are used to. Here in the UK I will happily shop for a "3 by 2" (a hold over from the old days), but if I ever have to think about the actual size of that timber the only thing that comes to mind is 70x47mm. Sheets of plasterboard are 1200x2400mm. Sure they may be weird numbers, but hey, once you get used to anything it's not a problem.
We’re not “irritated metric folk”. Metric is the main measurement unit for the rest of the world. As an Aussie who generally looks upon Canadians as cousins, I feel a bit insulted. We changed overnight (so to speak) to a modern measurement system and as an Architect metric is the most practical system. Love your channel BTW
There is no "38x89" measurement in metric lumber. You buy a 45 x 90 as framing timber (different for dressed-all-round machined timber). It's just what the suppliers have their equipment calibrated to. If Aussie tradies managed to cope then I'm 100% that Canadians can work it out. Just ignore those southern imperialists LoL.
You just said Australian framing is sized in simpler metric numbers like 45 x 90. It's easier to cope with metric when many materials come sized to the nearest 5 or 10. That's not the situation with many materials in Canada.
In Canada they are most definitely sold as 38 X 89, and are listed as such in our building codes.
@@rozinant1237 Presumably because they are converting timber already cut to imperial measurements. In metric countries the timber is cut to metric measurements like 45 x 90 not 38 x 89 or whatever. It must be a bit of a pain for Canadians having to deal with a split system....maybe a bit like using French or English language depending on where you live.
I think you are misunderstanding. There is nothing to convert. Almost all residential buildings in Canada are built to imperial measurements because as was stated, we export about 70% of our softwood lumber products to the USA.
A 2x4 ( it’s nominal dimension) has an actual dimension of 1.5” x 3.5” (which on a “hard” conversion equates to 38 x 89). Carpenters working in Canada simply measure 1.5” when they are locating a stud.
Hey Ben, sometimes if you go into an old house maybe built in the 1940's you fine 2 by 4's that are actually 2" by 4" . Ever see that? Hope you are well Happy New Year... Cheers
Fun post.
Stick with what you know if it works for you.
For me in Australia it’s millimeters all the way.
Crushing logic! Adapt to the environment or die reconverting measurements and wasting wood! 😥 I have worked with the metric system all my life until a few years ago, when for reasons of visual reduction 🤓, I started using the imperial system. Although in my case it is the opposite, materials in metric and measurements in inches! As my job allows me, the difference is not noticeable! I do not have to adapt a 122 x 244 cm plywood board, to any particular space (be it 16, 19.2 or 24 inches on center). I currently only use the metric system when building something that needs pinpoint precision. Greetings from the Canary Islands and congratulations for the channel and for the new year! Hopefully it doesn't get spoiled too 🙏! Sorry for my English ... I know!
I tossed out my imperial or dual tape and went metric only in the oil patch in Alberta. All the drawings were in metric so only made sense.
I’m a retired middle school math teacher and just assumed that all Canadians used metric measurements for everything. Good to know!
In Norway 2x4 is 48x98mm, 1 1/2 is 36mm. It's similar in other countries, but slightly different. Some are 50x100, others 45x90. So we often speak of boards as in inches, but it's technically in mm. Examples: 2x4,6,8,10,12 48x98, 148, 198, 250 and 300. We used imperial material up untill the 50-60's. In the 70's I believe, we introduced the 600mm system. Everything is now built according to cc600. Standard finish room height is 240cm. In other countries in Europe I belive it to be 400 and 500. Technical drawings are always in mm.
I think Canada and the US will probably never switch over to metric in construction because it would disrupt the system, and make remodeling too difficult. It is though interesting that the space rockets were actually designed in metric, and then drawings translated into imperial. (The Apollo rocket was designed by a German prisoner of war!).
That is not accurate. the Saturn V rocket, and earlier US rockets, were engineered in US Customary units (inches). Werner von Braun complained about it, but it wasn’t until the US started doing space projects with international partners that the engineering was done in Metric units. The flight control software used metric units, but values were converted to Customary for display to the astronauts and for public consumption.
Simple answer. When you border a country you tend to mesh languages. Love the videos!
As I tell to my Canadian wife, Canadians use imperial because the US uses it, including its province from the north :)
Then she laughs because Canadians are polite.
@@nimrodery :D
If only we were part of the US.
As a fellow commonwealth citizen (aussie) i was wondering this.
Tuba four!!!
The why is because the previous generations refused to convert and used the US trade to help defer transition. Just to note.. metric is the official measurement system in the states too they just don't want to change
Even if somehow things changed, a 2x4 will always be called a 2x4. 2x4 isn’t even correct now anyways. It’s at this point a colloquial staple. Who needs metric when you have 3/4 heavy and 31-1/2 light?
After working on homes for just over 40 years, I get asked often from people who were not born in the US, "I grew up using metric, its easy why don't you use it", my come back, "I grew up with Imperial, why don't you use it?"...
Re: "The US isn't going to metric any time soon..." when I was in K-2nd grade, we were learning BOTH sets of measurements because "the whole world will use the metric system by our bicentennial." That was from 1973 - 1976. That "no time soon" thing is an understatement. 🤣
I am glad you do!!
There was NO drywall stuff in this video!
Now how many gallons and pounds are you mixing of mud
Also, The conservative government that came to power in Canada in 1984 abolished the metric conversion. There was a lot of public backlash to the switch in Canada at that time.
Here in Ottawa, we got screwed building a house with a block foundation. The house was 28' x 48'. All of the other building material were imperial measurements. 2x4s 16" o.c. to line up with 4' x 8' sheets of plywood or OSB and drywall, etc. But the blocks weren't 16", they were 400mm. The joints would've been too wide to space them out to make up 16", so we ended up having to cut a small piece on each course of block on all four walls to make it come out right.
That’s odd, because the US blocks of nominal 16” length are 15.625” which is 397 mm. That size is suppose to result in 16” spacing with the joint. Even if your blocks were 3 mm longer, They could still be set at 16” spacing with a slightly thinner joint.
@@GH-oi2jf In the US, CMU blocks are nominally 16 in (410 mm) long and 8 in (200 mm) wide. Their actual dimensions are 3⁄8 inch (9.5 mm) less than the nominal dimensions (to allow for 3⁄8-inch mortar joints between blocks in any orientation).[7] In Ireland and the UK, blocks are usually 440 mm × 215 mm × 100 mm (17.3 in × 8.5 in × 3.9 in) excluding mortar joints. In Australia, New Zealand and Canada, blocks are usually 390 mm × 190 mm × 190 mm (15.4 in × 7.5 in × 7.5 in) excluding mortar joints.
I worked as a pipefitter for 40 years, most material dimensions are nominal anyway. I worked in whatever system the drawings used. In metric, linear dimensions are in millimeters, elevations are in meters, how do you forget that?
I served my apprenticeship using imperial then had to used metric. To be honest both have there uses and flit between the two when I am working. I see it as two languages really. However I don't know how you would enter imperial sizes in a computer which is standard practise. We do have metric materials. But without being biased metric is easier.
As a holdover from the federal and provincial governments push to encourage the switch to metric in the mid-seventies, both governments required that working drawings drawn for government projects were to be done in Metric. That is still the requirement to this day.