It's nice to listen to another writer openly admit to struggling with their book. I don't have any writer friends, so I guess I forgot that it's hard for others too. Maybe there's something in the stars, because I had a breakthrough and realized the perfect way to reconcile every issue I have with my book. Every ill I had was a symptom of starting the story too late in the timeline. Granted, I didn't figure it out as quickly as you. I wrote my first draft in one month 7 years ago... Better late than never.
Advice from an old man. Start a writers' group. If you start it they will come. In a library or cafe or bar. In time trust will come too. Henry James said it was hard doing it alone. Hemingway instead of college had Gertrude Stein, Ezra Pound, Ford Madox Ford, James Joyce. My point is that if two geniuses like H James and E Hemingway needed writer friends so too do ordinary mortals. Isolation is bad bear shit.
so happy for you!!! i'll admit i did selfishly want this book to work out because everything you've said about the character and premise makes me want to read it
Part 3 of my current novel, and I felt like throwing it away. (33k words) I waited a day, spent another planning my next novel, then realized I felt like that because I had forgotten what I wanted to achieve with this story, and was beginning to go in a direction I didn't want myself or the story to go. Also, more videos like this pls!
Glad the story is coming together for you! I'm an over-outliner, although I let the story grow and change a lot as I go. On my current book, I was bogging down. And it was originally supposed to be a short and fast 50k novel... And here I am at 52k and only a little more than halfway done. But in the last two days I've streamlined the outline a lot, combining scenes, cutting scenes, and pumping up the tension and conflict. Going good now.
First ever comment but, I've been having the same issue with my Nano Project! It was only when I opened up to (big) changes could I finally get moving. The difference between forcing a story together and it flowing together is obvious. Your last video really helped me not give up and I'm very grateful for it. Thank you ♡
YOU DID IT!!❤🎉 I’ve never been so happy to be wrong about writing advice!! Hearing your progress post-breakthrough is mind boggling , I can’t wait to see how the end of Nano goes for you!
As an intuitive plotter, listening to the writing experience of a discovery writer is wild. Things that stuck out to me is not expecting the characters to start an argument in a scene or having the issue that there's no momentum for the plot to move.
*Intuitive plotting.* Good thinking, Batman (as we used to say many decades ago). *Not expecting.* Another good phrase. Plotters are discoverers too. We all should allow more room for intuition, our wise shaman.
I watched all your vlogs about this book process in one sitting, and I kinda needed this. Currently sitting on one of my books, and it just didn’t feel right. I write crime fiction, my main detectives are already established, but the crime is always different. But this time … I could not figure it out. I’m more of a panster and usually things fall into place quite well. But this time, even after 23k words, I struggled with the structure of the crime itself. I did not connect with it, neither did my characters. There was no real reason for the detectives to do what they did. Nothing really happened, I never gave them any clues for solving the case, and it did not click at all. I will put it aside, look at scenes that worked and reconstruct the actual case my detectives need to work on. It’s really hard just “throwing away” 23k words (put it into the WIP folder). But this will be for the better, I know it. I actively avoided letting my detectives work on the case, which is not a good sign lol Watching you struggle and getting out of it is super motivating! My problem is different from yours, but it still helped a ton, especially as a fellow pantser :D I just need that connection that drives me forward and I missed that.
YAY! I gave up on my NaNo. My days have just been so crazy and disorganized. Sad, because this is one of the stories I have framed out and just need to fill in.
I'm so happy you had this break through with your story!!! I had some struggle with my characters as well. What really helped me was the "Emotional Wounds Thesaurus" and "Write your story from the Middle" :) Your character dynamics sound super interesting and I'm excited to read your books :) Sending you love and creative vibes
Oh my god, I’m so happy you figured it out! I was really feeling for you because I’ve had a lot of projects that were dear to me not work, and I’ve spent a lot of time trying to figure out why. I think with most problems, if you look hard enough for a solution, you’ll eventually figure something out! 😅
i haven't watched this yet but i saw the title and did an "EEP!" out loud I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT you're a wizard and im so pleased for you. okay i will watch the actual video now lmfao. edit: ⚡️IT'S ALIVE⚡️
im legit so intrigued by your book. im already invested in the story. i want to read it now... so, you know. im glad from a selfish perspective too lol. also, watching this video inspired me so much i wrote 300 words of my own today 🎉 which... isn't a lot lol. but it's more than ive got down in weeks and i smashed it out and it's bringing more along behind it so i might have more by the end of the day 😊 so thanks again, for sharing. it's always fascinating hearing other people's creative processes anyways, but it's also helpful sometimes lol. (also also, your book sounds so totally different to mine, but i also have a house, and an island, and almost-vignettes, and fucked up queer characters. that's fun!)
Either your videos have the lowest volume of any on this platform, or my hearing loss has become exponential. Probably the latter. Restarting the momentum, and the strengths you described, make me so glad. (Also the adjustment to your hair at the 2:20 mark is quite spiffy.) You made things clear two vlogs ago that sticking to the project was worth it, short-term aggravation be damned. Pulling the scenes in? Without context I'm just taking your word for it. But you've been talking a lot lately about causal chains and my sense is that this is where you'll stick the landing. Plus when you harness the full scope of your book's setting, your readers will have so much to sink their teeth into and you'll be the recipient of much gratitude. "Thinking of so many things" is correct. On days when I'm actually writing (instead of battling against the universe for its more negative forces to leave my mental health alone), my multiple strategies for the end product tend to contradict each other. It hurts my work the most at the scene level: various scenes played back-to-back feel like they're from different stories because if enough time passes of me implementing different methods, they ARE from different stories.
Yay for fixing things! I haven’t been doing traditional nano, but I finished draft 1 of a novel for the first time this morning, after having a breakthrough with redesigning the ending a few days ago ^_^ I’d started several novels before this but never made it past like 50k. This baby is only 68k (too short for adult fantasy), but I expected it to be underwritten in the first draft, going to flesh some areas out more in editing. I’m 30 and thought I’d get to this point sooner, but tbh I’m glad it took this long lol. I don’t think most people can reflect favorably on their teenage writings.
my nano started off brilliant and then kinda flatlined for the last week but i have no room to complain as I've still written about 40k words 😅 i do count world/character building words as well so that helps but even still I've never written this fast in my life. my last book was 55k words and it took 2 years to write!!
It's great to see you managed to figure it out and I agree that sometimes putting the work down is not the answer even if it's more often than not the advice. Is there any chance you can share the questions? I would love to do the exercise of answering them for some of my characters
@@ShaelinWrites omg thank you! you're right sorry about that! I love your videos (watch them all and take notes as you can see even though i don't comment) but I always put youtube on the back while I clean or bake or decorate cakes (I'm a cake decorator for my day job) so I'm rarely looking at the screen, i came back this morning to this video after watching it yesterday afternoon and thought maybe the questions were on the description box, it didn't occur to me they were on the screen! thank you for your kindness!
Shaelin, could you do a video on how to "pull a scene" in? Like you mentioned based on the style of those books? I want to learn how to do that. Thank you.
Basically I just compressed the scene to be much more concise/compressed any dialogue to just the most important lines (so instead of a long conversation, it would just be one or two lines among internal narrative), Check out either of those books and you'll see what I mean!
@@ShaelinWrites So rather than languishing about, you just got to the point! Did you do this more as a revision tactic? Meaning since you're a pantser and you don't know the point of a scene until its written, do you then go back and make it concise in revision? Or have you somehow found a way to pants concisely? If so, how??
These NaNoWriMo updates are genuinely motivating to get writing done ✌ after this month I want to start a guilty pleasure book (writing just for me) but idk if it will get too big and get in the way of writing next year. How has your experience been with guilty pleasure writing and its scale? Thanks Shae 🙌
It is. Pantsing becomes the character writing their own story. They essentially become imaginary friends and they eventually tell you where the story needs to go. If you, as the author, try to go against the character’s wants and personality, things go awry. You have to create a loose profile and then the character takes the wheel.
I think periods of struggle are to be expected for most writers, no matter the process!! The drafting process itself is probably more labour intensive for most pantsers because we are doing all the writing and planning at once, but personally I prefer this since I feel like it really engages me fully in the story in a way that I don't get from outlining.
I sorta kinda committed to a double NaNo, in that I submitted an application to a novel fair back at the end of September with a second draft half done. This gave me two months to tighten up what I had and finish the remainder. I have written just shy of 100k in two months. I am very tired. The book is a mess, but I'm finishing the draft tomorrow, and I think it might be hot enough to attract an editor.
*I wrote something good last night. What is happening ? I am reminded of *Today I Wrote Nothing* by Daniil Kharms (1905-1942) a man with blazing blue eyes who wrote for the desk drawer. He anticipated French surrealism - see *The Penguin Book of Oulipo* & *A Short Treatise Inviting the Reader to Discover the Subtle Art of Go*. The latter is edited by Pierre Lusson, Georges Perec and Jacques Roubaud. Blocked writers should play the game of Go with friends.
*The Girl Who Played Go* (La Jouesse de Go) by Shan Sa (published 2001) is set during the Japanese occupation of Manchuria. The centuries-old Japanese game of Go was introduced to France by a group of writers and math adepts who formed Oulipo. Structured gameplay is at the heart of Oulipo: A means of moving outside received systems of creativity, useful to the blocked writer.
Shaelin the LRD JESUS has used u some much to bless and literally literary prophetically speak to me life ! Jesus is LRD!! Thank u for bein u!!! Im just so blessed !!!!! I pray in LRD JESUS NAME U ARE BLESSED WITH LINES UPON LINES THAT BLOW UR MIND ! 1 Corinthians 2:13 John 3:16
It's nice to listen to another writer openly admit to struggling with their book. I don't have any writer friends, so I guess I forgot that it's hard for others too. Maybe there's something in the stars, because I had a breakthrough and realized the perfect way to reconcile every issue I have with my book. Every ill I had was a symptom of starting the story too late in the timeline. Granted, I didn't figure it out as quickly as you. I wrote my first draft in one month 7 years ago... Better late than never.
Advice from an old man. Start a writers' group. If you start it they will come. In a library or cafe or bar. In time trust will come too.
Henry James said it was hard doing it alone. Hemingway instead of college had Gertrude Stein, Ezra Pound, Ford Madox Ford, James Joyce.
My point is that if two geniuses like H James and E Hemingway needed writer friends so too do ordinary mortals. Isolation is bad bear shit.
so happy for you!!! i'll admit i did selfishly want this book to work out because everything you've said about the character and premise makes me want to read it
haha that's actually so sweet!!
No cause same
Part 3 of my current novel, and I felt like throwing it away. (33k words) I waited a day, spent another planning my next novel, then realized I felt like that because I had forgotten what I wanted to achieve with this story, and was beginning to go in a direction I didn't want myself or the story to go.
Also, more videos like this pls!
Glad the story is coming together for you!
I'm an over-outliner, although I let the story grow and change a lot as I go.
On my current book, I was bogging down. And it was originally supposed to be a short and fast 50k novel... And here I am at 52k and only a little more than halfway done.
But in the last two days I've streamlined the outline a lot, combining scenes, cutting scenes, and pumping up the tension and conflict.
Going good now.
oh god the '50k book is now 52k and i'm only halfway through' is soooo relatable
I'm so proud of you for fixing it and getting it to a place where you're happy with it!
I'm so happy for you! Wishing you all the best!
thank you!!
First ever comment but, I've been having the same issue with my Nano Project! It was only when I opened up to (big) changes could I finally get moving. The difference between forcing a story together and it flowing together is obvious. Your last video really helped me not give up and I'm very grateful for it. Thank you ♡
so happy you kept fighting and got your story working
Yay, I'm glad it's coming together for you!
I'm so happy for you Shaelin! I hope it continues to flow like that till the end, already excited to read it one day!
heyyy! So happy for you pal!
thank you!!
My eyes lit up when i saw the title so excited to watch
YOU DID IT!!❤🎉 I’ve never been so happy to be wrong about writing advice!! Hearing your progress post-breakthrough is mind boggling , I can’t wait to see how the end of Nano goes for you!
As an intuitive plotter, listening to the writing experience of a discovery writer is wild. Things that stuck out to me is not expecting the characters to start an argument in a scene or having the issue that there's no momentum for the plot to move.
*Intuitive plotting.* Good thinking, Batman (as we used to say many decades ago).
*Not expecting.* Another good phrase. Plotters are discoverers too. We all should allow more room for intuition, our wise shaman.
I watched all your vlogs about this book process in one sitting, and I kinda needed this. Currently sitting on one of my books, and it just didn’t feel right. I write crime fiction, my main detectives are already established, but the crime is always different. But this time … I could not figure it out. I’m more of a panster and usually things fall into place quite well. But this time, even after 23k words, I struggled with the structure of the crime itself. I did not connect with it, neither did my characters. There was no real reason for the detectives to do what they did. Nothing really happened, I never gave them any clues for solving the case, and it did not click at all.
I will put it aside, look at scenes that worked and reconstruct the actual case my detectives need to work on. It’s really hard just “throwing away” 23k words (put it into the WIP folder). But this will be for the better, I know it. I actively avoided letting my detectives work on the case, which is not a good sign lol Watching you struggle and getting out of it is super motivating! My problem is different from yours, but it still helped a ton, especially as a fellow pantser :D I just need that connection that drives me forward and I missed that.
YAY! I gave up on my NaNo. My days have just been so crazy and disorganized. Sad, because this is one of the stories I have framed out and just need to fill in.
I'm so happy you had this break through with your story!!!
I had some struggle with my characters as well. What really helped me was the "Emotional Wounds Thesaurus" and "Write your story from the Middle" :)
Your character dynamics sound super interesting and I'm excited to read your books :)
Sending you love and creative vibes
Yeah, I feel struggling with a work can be a sign that you're raising the bar, getting better and about to really kill it, in a good way 😊
Glad to hear you made a breakthrough.
Oh my god, I’m so happy you figured it out! I was really feeling for you because I’ve had a lot of projects that were dear to me not work, and I’ve spent a lot of time trying to figure out why. I think with most problems, if you look hard enough for a solution, you’ll eventually figure something out! 😅
thank you for posting these
i haven't watched this yet but i saw the title and did an "EEP!" out loud I KNEW YOU COULD DO IT you're a wizard and im so pleased for you. okay i will watch the actual video now lmfao.
edit: ⚡️IT'S ALIVE⚡️
im legit so intrigued by your book. im already invested in the story. i want to read it now... so, you know. im glad from a selfish perspective too lol.
also, watching this video inspired me so much i wrote 300 words of my own today 🎉 which... isn't a lot lol. but it's more than ive got down in weeks and i smashed it out and it's bringing more along behind it so i might have more by the end of the day 😊 so thanks again, for sharing. it's always fascinating hearing other people's creative processes anyways, but it's also helpful sometimes lol.
(also also, your book sounds so totally different to mine, but i also have a house, and an island, and almost-vignettes, and fucked up queer characters. that's fun!)
house/island/almost-vignettes/fucked up queer characters squad RISE (it is, imo, the ultimate recipe for a great book)
Either your videos have the lowest volume of any on this platform, or my hearing loss has become exponential. Probably the latter.
Restarting the momentum, and the strengths you described, make me so glad. (Also the adjustment to your hair at the 2:20 mark is quite spiffy.) You made things clear two vlogs ago that sticking to the project was worth it, short-term aggravation be damned. Pulling the scenes in? Without context I'm just taking your word for it. But you've been talking a lot lately about causal chains and my sense is that this is where you'll stick the landing. Plus when you harness the full scope of your book's setting, your readers will have so much to sink their teeth into and you'll be the recipient of much gratitude.
"Thinking of so many things" is correct. On days when I'm actually writing (instead of battling against the universe for its more negative forces to leave my mental health alone), my multiple strategies for the end product tend to contradict each other. It hurts my work the most at the scene level: various scenes played back-to-back feel like they're from different stories because if enough time passes of me implementing different methods, they ARE from different stories.
Yay for fixing things! I haven’t been doing traditional nano, but I finished draft 1 of a novel for the first time this morning, after having a breakthrough with redesigning the ending a few days ago ^_^ I’d started several novels before this but never made it past like 50k. This baby is only 68k (too short for adult fantasy), but I expected it to be underwritten in the first draft, going to flesh some areas out more in editing. I’m 30 and thought I’d get to this point sooner, but tbh I’m glad it took this long lol. I don’t think most people can reflect favorably on their teenage writings.
Ahh omg congratulations on finishing your draft, that's such a huge accomplishment!!
I am so happy with you!
Happy for you! Super helpful that you share all of this.
my nano started off brilliant and then kinda flatlined for the last week but i have no room to complain as I've still written about 40k words 😅 i do count world/character building words as well so that helps but even still I've never written this fast in my life. my last book was 55k words and it took 2 years to write!!
wow you've done such an amazing amount of work!! that's awesome!
(Robert Frost:) 'the best way out is always through' works well for you - congrats!!
so true!!
It's great to see you managed to figure it out and I agree that sometimes putting the work down is not the answer even if it's more often than not the advice. Is there any chance you can share the questions? I would love to do the exercise of answering them for some of my characters
The questions are shared on screen at 12:50!
@@ShaelinWrites omg thank you! you're right sorry about that! I love your videos (watch them all and take notes as you can see even though i don't comment) but I always put youtube on the back while I clean or bake or decorate cakes (I'm a cake decorator for my day job) so I'm rarely looking at the screen, i came back this morning to this video after watching it yesterday afternoon and thought maybe the questions were on the description box, it didn't occur to me they were on the screen! thank you for your kindness!
Haven’t watched the video yet but the title alone makes me happy!!
Shaelin, could you do a video on how to "pull a scene" in? Like you mentioned based on the style of those books? I want to learn how to do that. Thank you.
Basically I just compressed the scene to be much more concise/compressed any dialogue to just the most important lines (so instead of a long conversation, it would just be one or two lines among internal narrative), Check out either of those books and you'll see what I mean!
@@ShaelinWrites So rather than languishing about, you just got to the point! Did you do this more as a revision tactic? Meaning since you're a pantser and you don't know the point of a scene until its written, do you then go back and make it concise in revision? Or have you somehow found a way to pants concisely? If so, how??
@@thenovicewriter3196 I used it for revision for some scenes that weren’t working, but i also sometimes write scenes like that on the first draft!
@@ShaelinWrites Awesome. Thank you, Shaelin. You're the best. I wish you all the luck with your current book. You've got this!
These NaNoWriMo updates are genuinely motivating to get writing done ✌ after this month I want to start a guilty pleasure book (writing just for me) but idk if it will get too big and get in the way of writing next year. How has your experience been with guilty pleasure writing and its scale? Thanks Shae 🙌
Congrats! But yo, being a full pantser sounds so exhausting lol.
Exactly my thoughts! So happy to see it working out but yikes, I would've given up ages ago
It is. Pantsing becomes the character writing their own story. They essentially become imaginary friends and they eventually tell you where the story needs to go. If you, as the author, try to go against the character’s wants and personality, things go awry. You have to create a loose profile and then the character takes the wheel.
I think periods of struggle are to be expected for most writers, no matter the process!! The drafting process itself is probably more labour intensive for most pantsers because we are doing all the writing and planning at once, but personally I prefer this since I feel like it really engages me fully in the story in a way that I don't get from outlining.
I sorta kinda committed to a double NaNo, in that I submitted an application to a novel fair back at the end of September with a second draft half done. This gave me two months to tighten up what I had and finish the remainder.
I have written just shy of 100k in two months. I am very tired. The book is a mess, but I'm finishing the draft tomorrow, and I think it might be hot enough to attract an editor.
wow 100k in two months is an amazing feat!! congratulations on finishing your draft!
Great news!👍
Yaaassss! Congrats
I'm happy for you!!
Omg yay I knew you could do it!
I love to read as well as write 📝 books 📚 stories
It was me that said take a break from the book, but I meant for the day. A change of atmosphere freshens one’s perspective. Kind regards.😊
Haha I wasn’t referring to one specific comment, dozens and dozens of people told me to take a break or put the book aside across multiple videos
Woot!
if you get a job working at a school or a program what would it be
Who is your favourtie 20th century male author? I'm curious.
*I wrote something good last night. What is happening ?
I am reminded of *Today I Wrote Nothing* by Daniil Kharms (1905-1942) a man with blazing blue eyes who wrote for the desk drawer.
He anticipated French surrealism - see *The Penguin Book of Oulipo* & *A Short Treatise Inviting the Reader to Discover the Subtle Art of Go*.
The latter is edited by Pierre Lusson, Georges Perec and Jacques Roubaud. Blocked writers should play the game of Go with friends.
*The Girl Who Played Go* (La Jouesse de Go) by Shan Sa (published 2001) is set during the Japanese occupation of Manchuria.
The centuries-old Japanese game of Go was introduced to France by a group of writers and math adepts who formed Oulipo.
Structured gameplay is at the heart of Oulipo: A means of moving outside received systems of creativity, useful to the blocked writer.
Shaelin the LRD JESUS has used u some much to bless and literally literary prophetically speak to me life ! Jesus is LRD!! Thank u for bein u!!! Im just so blessed !!!!! I pray in LRD JESUS NAME U ARE BLESSED WITH LINES UPON LINES THAT BLOW UR MIND !
1 Corinthians 2:13
John 3:16
is there a where you can draw and show your emotions and what you go through in your day life
First