Afriforum vs EFF - This Land question is going too Far
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- Please watch: "Julius Malema June 16 Lecture | Special Edition"
• Julius Malema June 16 ... -~-
Land hearings continue in the parliamentary Constitutional Review Committee
Afriforum made a presentation in Parliament on #landexpropriation And things got heated up up when those who support amendment of section 25 of the constitution challenged them
Julius Malema Tweeted Afriforum is very provocative, maybe is time for us to engage face to face.
Keep fighting dear south africans I'm from colombia❤
Tamos juntos
We will fight
Yes we will fight against those that will use ghosts to steal from us today, We don't want to end up like Columbia and Venezuela
@@devilliersduplessis7904 we will fight like Mandela fought
@@zacharianakana7871 why? he got what he asked for, and worked very hard for it, though its easy to start another war.
South Africa please vote for the EFF ( Economic freedom fighters) Am from Ghana but I can sense the party love the nation and think about the poor👍👍👍👍👎👎👎
They stole millions from poor South African senior citizens and are running some municipalities to the ground due to public funds theft.
I'm from Sierra Leone west Africa but I wish I was a south African so that I can vote for the eff
Well then, thank god your not South African.
"Let me tell you my brother...(thinks about it) You're not my brother anyway)😂🤣✊
I see that white guy was smiling but he better take them seriously because they are not playing with them. I feel , a change will come.
@Goorpijp Wessel yes of course you are correct. The danger is that's it is wrongfully assumed that..... your grandfathers came here and stole....It is a blatant lie which can have serious consequences
@@kensonking8044 Tell me you are not racist?
@Goorpijp Wessel it will never destroy SA
@Goorpijp Wessel voetsek maraba nek
@Goorpijp Wessel Maar dis lekker kak!Problem is one party anc rule.The anc needs to be diluted
"You are not my brother anyway" CLASSIC. I LOVE IT!
It's a pity that's the only thing you heard in the whole presentation!
@@goodafy Because he is a racist.
@@kennethvolwana7799 I don't think so
"Justice is always better than Peace"
Well the EFF version of Justice or should I say much of the majority's version of justice is where they demand, burn down, in spitefulness and don't think about the costs and implications there of nor the people's lives theyre radical ways affect. Time and time again people in this country thought they were rioting for justice only to find out the next day they shot themselves in the foot. And only made their situation worse. I laugh at the stupidity of it all. The shithole SA has become is because of thr majority's version of justice. In the end, they suffer more than ever, and have the audacity to still blame other people and the past for their screw ups. Pathetic to the end.
peace is better than justice, you just want war
I'm a Nigerian, my Mother's parents own 2 acres of land and my Father owns 1.5 acres of land in Nigeria, me and my siblings will inherit my father's land/home and my mother would share her inheritance with her siblings. It's a common commodity amongst middle-class Nigerians.
So it's VERY strange that South Africans still allow the colonisers to own your land.
Let emotions aside and talk facts. The land in Southen Africa is an sensitive thing that needs be handled with care.Some of these EFFECTS and others to me are oppotunist politicians and are fighting return to parliament in twenty nineteen. As much as I agree that the land should be given back in can also tell that some of their argument are not guanine but to gain political sympathy.
You guys never had white people to the extent of southern Africa
They don't. These stupid EFF people make wild accusations saying most of the land is owned by whites when it's not. And the British were the colonialist not the Dutch. They were settlers, merely inhabiting their peace of land, that was devoid of local tribesmen, the British were the ones who united all the people as a easier means of control over the territory and resources. Of course most of the South African twits don't know this because they don't self educate nor do they think for themselves but rather let arrogant radicals tell them what to think without even hearing the white man's side of the story. It's stupidity unlike anything you've ever seen. It's all a waste of damn time, and SA is on the verge of collapse and these people wanna cry about open land they can't do anything with.
@@jackholman5008 and we can never have white folks or Indian folks to come to our Africa land of Nigeria to claim ownership of lands if any white folks or Indian will come down to Nigeria they must rent houses and land if they need it and pay the rent yearly or monthly to black idengeoius Africans. That is our forefathers law and we must keep it .
We soft bro. 😂😂😂
Oh yes change is coming and land expropriation without compensation is inevitable and nothing da Afriforum can do about dat
Majority of White people see themselves as victims. They don't know we are directly affected to this very day by what their grandparents did. It doesn't matter to them, and that is why we are going to "nyisa" you!!!
Mabaw'yeke umhlaba wethu!
"A theif may steal property, but that does not confer the right of ownership"
Unless the thieves steal parliament, Hence the problem.
In south Africa , you are supposed to punished for a crime said to have committed be your great..... great grand parents. Can anyone correct injustice that might have occurred throughout the history of mankind
@@dudleykamal4679 yup, I don't thrive to claiming historical tragedies like bloed rivier. Unless someone really wants to play the victim game
You act as if apartheid ended hundreds of years ago@@dudleykamal4679
@@dudleykamal4679you racist colonists are still eating and breathing on stolen land
Black power. Africa is black ONLY BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OUR LAND
Give a land to african American and Jamaican, Haiti please
Queen Maleko Matumona guyanese too
Agreed
@@Ndasuunye Why are African countries always holding the begging bowl out ?These countries are not economically sustainable,black governments cannot feed their own people because of corruption(greed) & pure incompetence.i.e zuma in S.A
@Matthew Keenan So how did they survive THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE WHITES EVEN EXISTED, you genetic mistake?!
This is how we KNOW whites have ZERO INTELLIGENCE unless it involves KILLING.
@@garycochrane893 Because whites ruined their lands and ways of life, dumbass. Geez, open a book sometime.
If I was a South African I’ll be immigrating !!
IF YOU EVER HAD, OR KNOW SOMEONE WHO HAD 'OPEN HEART SURGERY' - IT WAS CREATED BY A BLACK MAN - DANIEL HALE WILLIAMS.
No land was stolen . For one the Zulu were in the KwaZulu natal area and the Xhosa were in the Transvaal or Gauteng area , the ndebele were in the orange free state , the khoi khoin were in Cape town , and others were in Zimbabwe and Bophuthatswana. It's everybody's land . No matter what excuse it is . The only thing that they think was wrong with the land was when the people were forced in the 40s after the world war they were forced to move to different areas . So maybe that is the reason for it . But no farm was ever theirs in the 1600s there was loads of space in SA
Your “whiteness”
“Brother. Actually, you are not my brother”
“Yes, he is”
“No he isnt”
“Its just a joke”🤣
"My brother from another mother" Oh god... my sides...
Going head Sister girl till him.Stay Strong Stay blessed and happy. 😍
My problem is the lack of intellect and truth telling shown in this debate. The lack of ability to rationally think and debate truth. The lack of shared vision for the future of this country. The blind hatred.
@A World Under A Spell Leave my homeland ? A country for which I stood up for freedom of oppression in the 70's. No sir. I'm fighting the same hatred, the same ignorance, the same oppression, but this time from my people who should know better. Greed, money, power for a few ! Thats what it's about. You are fooling yourself if you think it's about the economic liberation of the poor masses.
LOL. I'm not going anywhere. But, you are right. No more for you.
Thank you for bringing a sensical comment in this comment section. Too much hate, not enough thinking and progressive engagement. I understand we are all tired of explaining ourselves, but unfortunately that is the only way forward. And if we had any love for each other in this country we would find it much easier to be patient with one another.
@A World Under A Spell The fact that you asked that question speaks volumes. Leave this issue to us real africans ok. We are actually living the realities of the situation.
With my little knowledge number 1. No one supposed to have private game park.
2. Limit the individual land ownership to 25 hectares
3. Distribute the lands among the landless people
4. Rest of the lands should keep as a government ownership for use to the commuty for farming and industry
It is funny how the video is only uploaded in a manner to hear what the other party members has to say., but when Afriforum wants to name their 8 point solution, the video was cut off. Just show you that this channel has double standards.
This problem can be easily solved, simply get the hell out it don't belong to you devils, that the bible speak of
Agreed. That is true
I agree @Misha, if you have a strong case for something you can advocate for it without deceptive and misleading tactics
Until we state hunting them and kill them like how they killed our p/ple ,they ll know we serious
It’s even funnier that they are their and have been their in a land that’s not theirs while arguing that they have rights their. They can use those same agricultural machines in Europe.
The land was not stolen. This land is our land. We worked it and build it up from nothing Even after Britain came and burned the farms and farmlands.
TAKE THE LAND - God will feed the people-let them move in with there cousins in New Zeland
God doesn't feed anyone. Working men do.
- the people were eating long before the white man showed up - and eating good I might add- U obviously don’t know the Lord & the Lord does not know U - so again TAKE the LAND the people will eat -- the only way u r going to get rid of black people, is if we collectively get together & walk off the planet --
God will let you perish if you continue to hate
Not the brightest pea in the pot. Why don't your god help the people of Zimbabwe or Rwanda or Nigeria or Venezuela. Braindead
@@GertduPreez He will. First He is busy killing off the devils. Cave Beast.
I really like Shavambu when he is dealing with Afrifurum.
IF YOU EVER ATE FOOD BROUGHT ON A 'REFRIGERATED TRUCK' YOU USED AN INVENTION CREATED BY A BLACK MAN - FRED JONES
And if that truck stops at the traffic light, those very same traffic light were invented by a black person💪🏾
Not true. refrigeration was invented by a scotsman
@@ayobampilo5762 - really - I did not know that - I seriously doubt it.
I am pleased by the spirit of justice displayed by the 2 withes MP...
I say keep on with your insults and undermining our pain, fuel us we need the strength 👏🙏
As an Irish man I was thinking using the same line of argument I should go over to my neighbour who's family 400 years ago got their land from Cromwell and kick him out. Then I though t for a minute and said what a bat shit crazy idea. SA can't be considered a modern country because its not that they can't live together it's that they don't want to. World is laughing at them.
True
You are right. I agree.
What one of those Americans with 2% Irish in them and never set foot in the country but identify as an Irishman?
Except only 31% of people support this dumb policy. The number of people who support this policy drops to 10% when asked if they would allow the state to take respondent's property. People who support this madness are a small loud minority who try to silence the majority
Nope they not lying..irish ppl actually hate the english they still even nw tlk abt how they were treated..the irsh even nw stilk wsnt that plc in the north
If you don’t like the current government in South Africa, then vote them out of office. That’s how democracy works.
EFF must not waver and proceed with completion. Tengazako has begun in Afrika!
yes draw up the plans for the zink long drop....just remember to anchor it properly because surely it shull tumble down in the wind
The white man is never your brother , that ✊🏾✊🏿
✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽
I am a black south African who agrees with both the arguments that Afriforum and the EFF present, as a history major I argue that South Africa's history has too many dimensions to it to follow the course that either side supposes. I feel this country needs to find a compromise just like our constitution and so forth. Conquest and the after effects are a reality in this country but the reality of this belonging to one group is also something you can't deny but the food shortage is also a reality that we have to face. there was alot going on in the interior that kinda makes this a little more complicated. Karl Marx was right about a lot of things and I believe that these realities that both sides present are as a result of capitalism and neo liberalism. SA mustn't become a completely communist state but I believe that we should work towards both groups following the same route we were after 1994. South Africans are people who are always thinking in colour ALLL SOUTH AFRICANS are like that. SOuth Africa look in the mirror and and ask yourself what do you want. I feel like expropriation should be shared plots that save the food industry and empower blacks that way we dont get into a civil war or another wave of oppression.
I can't wait to join the fighters
Well done Ernst
You get your land...We love you!!!
Trinidad and Tobago
In Africa, African languages should be spoken.
we have up to 3000 to choose from... you choose, post it on fb,, twitter etc, and get it going.
Why talk at all?
English and French make it 3002. Why learn those too foreign languages and make them officially when it could have just been another African language ? The issue is forcing Africans with colonialism and apartheid to learn your language.
Afrikaans is an African language
Afrikaans is an African language
"great lecture for reminding the world kenya will never forget south africa apartheid now julius malema is kiboko yao what's going around comes around of land grabbers and white farmers they have fail measurable on politics"
"...cannot survive if you cannot dig a borehole" BOOM!
"we trying to build new south Africa but you're taking us back"..strong point
Very powerful point
you keep telling a lie to yourself and the people enough times and you and everybody will start believing it.
@Patrick Kazan again look in mirror. read a book and educate yourself before spitting hatred and fire from your brother the devil
America Natives, Aborigines, San, Khoi, Indians, etc. did not rape themselves to create mixed race kids. At least some of us read books and are varsity students. I bet what you are saying is what you constantly hear from your society.
@@billymashamaite9892 thank you. finally the education you are getting for free is coming through. you can see the light. hopefully you will continue to see the light.
Tor ent it really is working. I wish it could also destruct your stupid bigoted thinking that makes you feel like you know much when, in fact, you don't. I've seen quite a number of your comments on this thread, and I can tell how much you've been indoctrinated into believing everything that your society beliefs. You're no different from most of those that resemble you. Your thinking is just the same. It's like you have been told how much superior and intelligent you're because of your phenotypical attributes. That lie has been told again and again that it eventually manifested itself as a fact. Chill, it's not 1820. Things have changed to a point that most of what you believe have been refuted over and over again, not only by intellectuals, but by reality itself.
I bet Afrikaner beggars who live on the streets and those that live under extreme poverty can tell you how much that lie led them to where they are today. These are ever-changing times. Someday you will be left with your white superiority complex and the K-word living under massive discrimination from black people. Too bad not all of you are like that. Most of my classmate who happened to be of Afrikaner descendants don't have that kinda thinking.
You can ridicule us all you want. It's fine.
What did Afrikaners and Boers ever do for South Africa? Clean water? OK, other than clean water. The roads. Other than the roads. Hospitals? Other than hospitals. Schools. Other than schools. Law and order? Other than law and order. Sanitation? Doesn't count.
People keep talking about DEMOCRACY. Isn't democracy just mob rule? What does the R in RSA stand for? What is the difference between a republic and a democracy?
Afriforum... Keep striving for a beter South Africa.
Afri-forum failed to stick to the subject matter... This committee serves to answer the question, should the constitution amended to allow for expropriation without compensation, if not then why not? And recommendation were to be made to find alternative solutions. It wasn't about ANC or EEF or state capture or anything of that sort. So they just ignored the subject matter in an attempt to scare e everyone...
Ernst was replyng to the line of argumentation of the members of the comitee. They first started with muh history.
EFF CONTINUE THE GOOD FIGHT BROTHER'S AND SISTER'S THE CONTINENT OF AFRICA GOT YOUR BACK.
The vote disagrees with you, just because you're a racist doesn't mean Most South Africans are.
@@devilliersduplessis7904 oof burn 😂
Let me highlight your stupidity.
As Mr de Plessis stated, other Africans beyond South Africa don't have the same experiences, the same thoughts, the same motivations, but the EFF likes to make such arrogant bold claims to our locals as if these foreign Africans agree, just to make themselves look big. In reality those people will laugh at you and the EFF for these radical assumptions and made up bullshit.
The ones creating "the struggle" are very people who claim to fight it. The EFF is not educating Africans on the true history of this nation, and to hear all peoples side of the story, they are not teaching them to move on from the past, instead they re enforce this victimization. Fabricate their own version of events to sell a narrative. Victims cannot rise. You can't build a nation of your a victim, you can if you are mature enough to grow as people and to be better than you were the day before. The EFF is a finger with a long nail that scratches at old wounds, bleeding their own people dry. And the youth are suckers for the shit they spew.
I'm an African, born after Apartheid, I know nothing of the old times because I never lived them. I had the brains enough to go and educate myself, talk to all people, gain a larger perspective, beyond just my own history. Too many people in SA are clueless, tinking pride and ideology alone can put food on the table, create jobs. Laughable!
Land is useless if you can't develop it, and that alone costs hundreds of thousands if not millions of Rands to do. Where is that money gonna come from? Out of Malema ass? Tax payers? In this economy? Hah!
I wouldn't praise a man like Malema who made his money from stealing from his own people. No different than the failed ANC who turned SA into a shithole.
They call it insults. They call it threatening. But it's true. The truth hurts ! The EFF's reasoning is childish, selfish, ignorant, irrelevant and worst of all, short sighted. Unfortunately the ignorant masses will follow regardless. But, that is after all the game they are playing.
so you want blacks to lick you bottoms not anymore
My ancestors were kidnapped and forced to leave the motherland and sold to the merchant ships sailing to America. With that said, I would like to visit Africa someday. Would there be a piece of land left for me when I get back? 🙂
Yes bro
When you get back to what?
@@PalesaSekhoetsane I will be back to the motherland when things are quiet down and back to our ancestors' hands.
@@maurichaelr.101 come bro you will get your land
@@craigdavidson1493 😀 I will hope so. Thanks...
I love this given fact you'll run out of food, and her comment is it's insanity hahah
The same process should happen across Africa! Why would the colonialist still own land 50-60 years after independence? If it is justifiable that they acquired their land through violence then they should be stripped off their title deeds and their nationality! This is the age of Neo-Pan Africanism
Babylon money dnt worth nothing ..marcus garvey 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I disagree with Mr. Rhodes solution where stated that people should find mean to work themselves out of poverty. How do poor black SA, work themselves out of poverty when during apartheid were denied access to many things that would better their lives. It is only in 1994 that Black SA have been free, a period of only 24 years since they became free. and you expect them to find solutions to get themselves out poverty, when 80 % of the economy in SA is run by white SA? i find your comment to be absurd,unfair and insulting to black SA. Your solution are certainly a way to advance your interests and agendas.
Point is we gave you a first world fucking country a first world army and economy and you've only lived off what we have built! Slowly destroying everything you get your hands on
SA's problem is not white people, but rather that the population of the country has increased TOO QUICKLY. How can you increase the average standard of living, while the population grows so quickly, from 5m to 58m in just over 100 years? America only increased from 90m to 340m in that time. Get it? America's population increased 4 times, SA's increased 12 times.
I seen it suggested in the comment threads about this particular topic that all the white people should pack their s*** up and leave including their farming equipment including the irrigation systems including everything of technology that they have brought that should bode well
Marius Herbst You gave us nothing. besides we did not need you to come and build anything. All you did was to exploit our land and resources. We did not need you in the first place. We never invited you. You invaded. Africa does not need Europeans to develop, we will develop at our own pace.
Jan Chudak Read your history man. Seems like you do not know what you are talking about!
Its simple, europe for europeans, africa for africans, asia for asians.... Everybody should just go home.
Let us see who benefited from Apartheid .
Since 1970 the budget for black education was raised by about 30% per year every year. More than any other government department.
In the period 1955 -1984 the amount of black school students increased 31 times from 35,000 to 1,096 000.
65% of black South African children were at school compared to Egypt 64%, Nigeria 57%, Ghana52%, Tanzania50% and Ethiopia 29%.
Amongst the adults of South Africa, 71% could read and write (80% between the ages 12 and 22). Compare this to Kenya 47%, Egypt 38%, Nigeria 34% and Mozambique at 26%.
In South Africa, the whites built 15 new classrooms for blacks every working day, every year. At 40 children per class it meant space for an additional 600 black students every day!
In 1985 there were 42,000 Blacks at 5 universities in South Africa, about the same amount at the universities of the homelands (another 40,000 at another five).
In an article called “Die Afrikaner” 11 Feb 1987, the quarterly magazine called “Vox Africana Nr 29 4/87 stated that,
South Africa had 4,8 million whites and 18,2 million blacks in 1987. The whites paid 77% of the taxes and the blacks only 15%...despite this...56% of the government budget was spent on blacks.
During the time of Dr. Verwoerd. the living standards of Blacks were rising at 5,4% per year against that of the whites at 3,9% per year. In 1965 the economic growth of South Africa was the second highest in the world at 7,9%. The rate of inflation was a mere 2% per annum and the prime interest rate only 3% per annum. Domestic savings were so great that South Africa needed no foreign loans for normal economic expansion.
Even Lord Deedes admitted, “White South Africa grew to become the economic giant of the continent, the other members of the Commonwealth virtually sank into poverty.”
At the height of Apartheid in 1978 Soweto had 115 football fields, 3 Rugby fields, 4 athletic tracks, 11 Cricket fields, 2 Golf courses, 47 Tennis courts, 7 swimming pools built to Olympic standards, 5 Bowling alleys, 81 Netball fields, 39 children play parks, and countless civic halls, movie houses and clubhouses.
In addition to this, Soweto had 300 churches, 365 schools, 2 Technical Colleges, 8 clinics, 63 child day care centres, 11 Post Offices, and its own fruit and vegetable market.
There were 2300 registered companies that belonged to black businessmen, about 1000 private taxi companies. 3% of the 50,000 vehicle owners in 1978 were Mercedes Benz owners. Soweto alone had more cars, taxis, schools, churches and sport facilities than most independent countries in Africa. The Blacks of South Africa had more private vehicles than the entire white population of the USSR at the time.
Today Soweto has modern shopping malls like, Dobsonville Shopping Centre. In 2005 the Protea Gardens Mall opened. This was followed by the Baramall Shopping Centre and the Jabulani Shopping complex and the Maponya Mall. Experts say that Soweto has as much as 25% oversupply of retail space.
The biggest hospital in the world, Baragwanath with 3200 beds and at its peak during Apartheid with almost 8000 staff, had 23 operation theatres fitted out with the most modern medical equipment that existed in the world. Blacks were treated here, operated on...at full state costs to the white-taxpayers for unlimited periods. The budget of this hospital was and is higher than the yearly budget of most small member states of the United Nations.
Next door to Baragwanath is the St. John’s Eye Clinic. The clinic was world famous for the treatment of Glaucoma, Cataracts, traumatic eye injuries and rare tropical diseases.
Baragwanath in 1978 employed 450 medical doctors in full-time service. It treated 112 000 in-patients and 1.62 million out-patients per year. The children and infant death rate with 34.8 per 1000 was lower than Harlem in New York.
In 1982 alone, this hospital performed 898 heart operations of world quality.
Ironically...90% of the blood donors for this hospital were whites, who donated blood free of charge, totally voluntarily...to save black lives. (Quoted from The Citizen, 2 April 1987).
Whites have already given blacks their blood. What more do they want?
Rubbish
Once again whites want thanks for putting themselves where they are not wanted.
All of you that are hating this comment: would you mind to tell me the reason? just because he was stating facts? AHAH JOKES ON YOU, when reality will punch you it will be much harder than the racism you are trying to invoke against people that brought SA to shine, now it’s just going in crumbles because of double-faced politicians. Keep in mind that racism doesn’t beat racism and if something happens the world won’t stay silent for long until actions will be performed to shut this type of government down.
A bunch of Bantu raiders think SA is theirs....
Shit or get off the pot!
🤔🤔🤔 Thieves refusing to give back what they had stolen 🤣🤣🤣
they r making your food idiot... how would you gonna do it... what supplier gonna take you seriously ? gonna look at you ahah hubba bubbba is talking lol you r joke people. whites should stop supporting africa once and for good...
The land belong to Whites.
Respect this. This os history
@@viniciusbortoloso4678 Nothing in Africa belongs to whites. NOTHING.
@@MilanCrow get off the land and the sun and earth will feed the original man as it has done since the beginning of time. just gtfo.
Why are the first and the last part of this hearing not included? I'm interested what those other seven points of the AFF are.
In order for people to build an understanding of and an opinion about the issue, they need to be presented with information. That which includes hearing arguments from both debating sides, that people then can put into context.
It's hard enough to ignore all those ignorant and many times racist and disgusting comments here on RUclips. But I and probably many others still use this platform as a way to broaden their own perspectives on these difficult but important and urgent debates that will eventually shape the SA of the future.
IF parliament was like this all the time we'd have free education
and it would be worthless.
Give us our land back.
Take it back then... its yours???
@Patrick Kazan jah in body bags
@Patrick Kazan im not your boy and im sober
This can never get Old,The composure of Comrade Shivambu
Its high time people realise Land Reform is inevitable lol
Two wrongs don't make a right.
how is it wrong to take what rightly belongs to you? its simply correcting the injustices of the past
@@NWG1961 Sure as hell makes it even, PARASITE.
Afro forum needs to take the point of "No man 's land out of their arguments " it makes sound unwise, unprepared, desperate and not really intelligent because, for instance, there is a desert in Namibia, people don't live in it , does it make that part of land any less part of Namibia, ? Does it mean Germans should come there and say ok, that land is inhabited, so it is a no man's land, let s take it? I don't think that afro forum rep. Is listening to himself... like can South Africa go to the UK take a piece of land that isn't occupied, and declare it was a no man s land..so we as South Africans decided to settle here? If the roles were reversed, would European? Accept that? That is what he should think about
CC GK this was before borders bro... context!
@@michaelsathekge3262 there has always been borders, just not the Europeans borders,,Africa was made of kingdoms, or tribes, and each one knew how far their lands extended to..
@@ccgk1325 and how did they know how far land extends? Borders are borders, period! how can you argue the difference between "Tribal/African" vs European borders? at some point you need some kind of evidence we can all consider for the better. btw, Afriforum are in support of redistribution of land they just dont think the government is better placed to decide for individuals, the state has never been more efficient than individuals especially in social problems. The main issue here is property rights transferred from individuals to the state, even though the little distribution that has been done so far under the "willing buyer, willing seller" clause has produced unsatisfactory results as it is so how can there be an argument to do the same thing only without compensation to be in the constitution instead of a bill or an extra piece of legislation?
The normans, romans, and vikings did.
@@michaelsathekge3262 you didn't get what I meant by European borders..European borders are the borders that divide the African countries.. what do you mean how did they know how their land extend to? How do we know today how far each country s land extend to? .... Afriforum no matter their intention they are very insensitive on their approach especially when they mention that nonsense of "No man s land" ... Representatives of Afriforum look all white, and you want the fate of the country to be decided by those we trying to get from again? ,,I don't disagree that the current government over time has proven to be incompetent, but that's only because those who apparently fought for independence do not want to let go of power and those with more advanced knowledge do the work..but it s certainly NOT a group of whites or Asians that will bring better change coz as history has proven multiple times, White look out for whites..it will be insanity to hand the final decision on the matters concerning land
They have every right to avenge our Ancestors and take back what stolen. Be glad they arent talking deportations
There is not and was never a single square foot of uninhabited land for Europeans in Any part of Africa. That man made such a passionate statement at the end but he simply forgot that they have no authority over African land. if South Africans want to live in huts and let wild life flourish, that is their choice to make their decision their domain, not yours.
Yes there is. Only racists believe what you say. So there is none and no land in EU for blacks? Got lots of friends there doing well you will need to tell them they are unwelcome. Get real man, giving the rest of us a bad name.
I don't understand all this nonsense. Why are people so militant? If these people in parliament were more rational, then a solution could perhaps be found. Ernst Roets conducted himself extremely well. Sure not all will agree with what he said, but he respectfully lets others talk without interrupting and has intelligent answers to questions posed to him. If the others did the same, then we would be getting somewhere. Unfortunately, this will never happen.
On point
@@pelomk9022 oh my god. One cannot have a conversation with people full of hate. Murder? Rape? You are not from south africa are you?
And your response Pelo is exactly the point I was making. Why have these review committees if you have no intention of discussing matters rationally? Do you consider Nelson Mandela a role model or not?
Because they are black.
They don't want to miss a major theft opportunity.
Yeah getting some where to steal more land,crooks,and thevies
It's our land, we want ownership of it, that's all, you'll can rent it but you can't own it!
you don't understand the basic economics of the real world... go back to playing video games.
Soveel EFF members hier in die comments...
Surely there is a cut of point in law for how far one can go back to put a claim to a case? For example, if my father has killed or stollen, by law must I as his child be put in jail? Must one pay for their parents crimes? Steel man arguments...
Kapri - “If you are referring to the Christian Bible and not the Quran then,” God’s warning to visit iniquity on future generations is part of the Old Testament Law. A generational curse was a consequence for a specific nation (Israel) for a specific sin (idolatry). The history books of the Old Testament (especially Judges) contain the record of this divine punishment meted out. Yes, God promised to visit Israel’s sin upon the third and fourth generations, but in the very next verse He promised that He would show “love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments” (Exodus 20:6). In other words, God’s grace lasts a thousand times longer than His wrath. Taken from: ‘Gotoquestions.org’
“Of course satan will whisper in ones ear that one needs to pay for the sins of ones parents. But that is a lie, since Jesus declared by His sacrifice that IT IS DONE! However I think I’m throwing pearls to the swine here, so I will stop wasting my time lol...argue with an idiot you start looking like one yourself. And besides Shangoma magic doesn’t work if you’re Christian, so goodness knows what you are trying to figure out in your grey matter😂
Sins of the father
@Kapri...by saying do you mean as in me..? Or what does us mean? Are you referring to me as white
You must not go to jail. But you can't be allowed to profit from the crimes of your father. Life can't be returned. But property can. If your father stole you return the stolen items and not profit from them just because you didn't steal them.
@@monicaabiaza9488 It is also a matter of decency. If one is caught with stolen goods you can be charged also, it does not matter if you stole it, you are in possession and it does not belong to you. It is also returned to the right full owner.
It's hypocritical for Europeans to proclaim anything with out deeds. Invasion doesn't come with a deed or trail of documentation. Also compensations are for mutual losses. Not unfair practices! A mirror for a country. Their really proud to acknowledge that in history?
EFF👍💪💪
The land debate looked like a court case. Roets on trail for something that happened in history.
Moral question:
Can ones descendants and future generations (including any look-a-likes) be punished in future for something that a "government of the time" has done ? E.g. Marikana
Interesting. Someone in favor of generational punishment of normal citizens, based on the actions of a previous/future government. Do you think more people have the same view as you ?
If you support it, then I assume you have thought it through. How do you think should it be implemented, should there be some International rules for generational punishment ?
I still don't see how this should be implemented. What do you think ?
Should this apply to every country in the world ?
Should all crimes be included, or just government crimes ?
For how far back in history should it be applied ?
Who should make the rules and what should it be ?
What criteria should one used to decide if someone should be punished ? An International court of law with evidence that your ancestors lived in that same era, or were part of the government, or do you apply it to everyone that looks similar ?
Should the list of crimes be adjusted on a yearly basis ?
Should there be sufficient historic evidence, or is popular believe enough for punishment (Like Mob justice) ?
Should more punishment measures be added every year, as the current government feels fit ?
For how long should the punished last ? 10 years, 25 years, 100 years, several generations, forever ?
Should only descendants be punished or should someone else also receive benefits from the punishment ?
Can a descendant be punished again in future if their ancestors was already punished for the same crime ?
Can any government of the day decide to change the criteria ?
Should every generation have a police force looking into historic crimes and hunting down decedents and look-a-likes ?
Yes, because yaw still using Jim crow laws and ect within the USA, shit we still got the kkk in the USA doing marches with their robes and hoods on, and recently here in the USA the hangings of black people men and women, so yes! to your question
With many black millionaires, more blacks with degrees, jobs, cars and a bigger black middle class than whites, Is race still a proxy for dis/advantage ? We are a family of six living on a 600 sqm stand, newest car is more than 20 years old and we are struggling just to get decent education for the children.
Any reliable facts to back your statement ?
I LOVE THE WAY WE HAVE WOKEN UP... NOW CONTINUE TO REGIMENT UP, AND RUN THE DEVIL OUT!!!
The EFF told the whole truth!
Yes
@@barnieglover8879 That is racist.
Truth makes u scare but won't hurt you 😆😆😆we need our land peacefully if not we are ready to take the way u over took our grand grand father's
Where is your land?
@Kobus in ur big head😇
@@amandra3996 wow well spoken man sophistication of a 2 year old
Africans its time to Fight 4 what is yours, Fight , fight, Yes Fight,....Do not sucumb to nobody....
Just a question: If I have to take responsibility for my great great grandparents actions, then surely we need to judge all people and go back as far as we can to find some wrongdoing in there ancestry and fix it, in other words play God. Why do I never here about the hundreds of thousands murdered by Shaka? Should this not also be investigated and discussed in parliament?
Because you Europeans invented a false history that one man killed millions of his own kind when the whole Nguni population was less than 500 000 in the 19th Century.
As regards the land issue..if a bunch of Zulus own the majority of land in Germany or England; that it should be redistributed to the common German/English folk would be seen as just, equitable and necessary. But here; European colonists are refusing to give up un-used African land they own.
@@ohlangeni Go and dig them up and get your godly revenge, just make sure non of your ancestors were slave traders or rapists.
I seen no counter argument, I only seen emotional response over logic and critical thinking.
Kangaroo court.
Listening is a skill , Ur hearing not listening Its so so sad that "Some" whites only understand war!
Very good ! Tell him the Truth. Well done.
Yeah big sister tell them the truth
..ROYAL WE..
I would love to see the presentation AfriForm made
No need filled with arrogance that can only be displayed by someone defending their privileges.
Groot respek Meneer Roets.Die manier hoe jy die saak/huidige situasie behandel is puik...
God it’s videos like these that make me hate humanity as a whole. When we bring emotions into finding solutions then only hatred and war will follow.
We are suffering and your colonizers have killed stolen taken lied, but you devils want us to be unemotional! FOH You need to control our emotions too?
@@MzSarenaX the colonizers stole nothing. The Zulu moved south 100 years after European settlement.
"Fuck That" The Whites Started It And The Africans Will Finish It... TAKE BACK THE LAND!
@@laurenjamieson8411 Lol nobody believes that LIE. Get ready for war. You ALL need to die.
@@laurenjamieson8411 Shut your dirty fucking mouth. You feed on emotions and chaos, you're only scared of what will happen once all black people know their TRUE history and start revolting to your illusion that you call a civil modern society. RISE UP!
All the animals that are in private game reserves are owned but no person can give birth to an animal. How the hell do you fence an animal and then claim ownership of the animal. Or did you work the animals aswell??
So since you are an animal, are you happy by being owned since they fenced you in?
Do you breed with them?
duh...
Yes.
0:37 If the eyes are the windows to the soul...welcome to the void...
This is a deflection debate, I did not really see the members debating what he said, they rather attacked him personally and that's what people do who does not have a point to stand on.
Is going to get worse just watch the space
You want land? BUY IT!!!! It is pathetic how may Bantu are buying into the EFF shit that they are owed anything by anyone.
NOPE. YOU DIDN'T BUY IT. SO KICK ROCKS.
@@dutchboyslim5951 some whites before blacks? You're a moron, Bantu people migrated to South Africa more than a thousand years before any white settler. Just because there was empty land doesn't make that land yours, you telling me I can go to any country and take land just because it's empty? Morons will moron.
@dutchboyslim...lies
I guess the only place in the world where stupid is addressed as honorable is in a parliament.
Zimbabwe 2.0
NO WAR PLEASE!!! lets be pro life and figure this out sensibly
Did you hear any sensible arguments bar that of Ernst Roets lol
palesa sekhoetsane do you think white supremecy will give africans back their land. Do you think apartaid would of ended if cuban soldiers were not threatening to march from angola and congo to south africa to end it by force.
Anyone advocating for war has obviously never experienced it. If you have you'd not even consider it an option.
palesa sekhoetsane thats a lovely thing to suggest and africans have only wanted peace. But idealistically apartaid would not of ended if cuban soldiers were not threatening to march to the gates of south africa to end it. Please dont disrespect the sacrifice of those who have given their lives for african liberation. Europeans in south africa want your land soul and freedom. They want south africa to be like the usa where indiginous people are deleted from all walk of life.
hell no white people are still racist and greedy...they must go back to europe finish n klaaaaaaaaaaaaar!
Does this mean I can claim compensation from the british for land that was taken in Ireland from my family back in the 1700s ?, Woo hoo PAYDAY!!!!!
Amazing hearings as heard by an African American
Ok re re re te te te um um um???
I would love to see a debate between Afriforum and the guy who wrote "The Land is Ours" since both have such compelling arguments.
So would I, that would be great if it could be conducted in a civil way, great idea!
People it's not complicated, their OWN records say they stopped for a refreshment station ,time has come for them to journey on...full stop nd a full stop is not a stop for fools 😂
The white guy that spoke Afrikaans is completely wrong when he say that he has been 20 years in parliament where relationships were being build. All what I see is devision and complete destruction of South Africa the last 20 years. Maybe what he have meant was that a circus was build and that Ernst destroyed this circus relationship. But Ernst is 100% right, because a circus relationship is not there to govern a country, it normally works better if one have trained government officials that care for the people in the land and govern accordingly, whereas the main focus for a circus is to make money, so I am sure from this that this guy though that his aim is to build good relationships with his employer called the South African government because it served him well. I also think the same applies to rest of the circus management we see in this and other videos.
Go home
Idk dewet
Europeans must go
Elton, I'm unsure of your historical background....but most black South African groups, did not reside in South Africa. They migrated to South Africa, from further north, sometimes displacing indigenous peoples. Thus, by definition, if one is born in South Africa, then one is a native. I was born here...and I've never been out of the country. None of my grandparents were born outside of South Africa. Thus, I have no idea where you think I must go.
Elton Williams THEY GOT A LONG WAYS TO GO. UNIVERSE
Taking a high ground on this by Afriforum is counterproductive,this land is big enough for everyone,restorative justice for development,you guys can work together to sort this,majority of native Africans are rooting for bloodshed,that’s not the way to go.
South African must find another peaceful way to talk about land acquisition. This tone of talking is not the way out. All I see is a bad out come. Black South African cannot wish for old bad days.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
@@NWG1961 But they damn sure make it even.
then the guy goes on and say we need to come together as a nation haibo it wasn't like that when you first came here. you guys were killing people like insects and now you want us to be nice to you and pretend like we are one big happy fam
At least try to live together. We must all live and let live.
Thabiso Senzo, you have to admit your women painted with white clay, do look some what similar to giant insects. It's not like they produce real human babies.
WHKCCP imma let that slide cause clearly you don’t know what you on about
Thank u so very much, Africa belong to us,
your attitude is tge worst. you better count your words. you are the problem. i still do not own land and walked 15km to gi to school. you are not special
Get them the hell out,of there, these devils,always taking,steeling and lying, they no good no good,who asked them to come any way nobody,alway, lying
Amusing that they accuse him of threatening them, WHILE they are threatening him, isn't it?
yes take them out of your rightful land. If you have land you have power. Stop talking and just do it.
Support our Africa women to bring our black children in this world rightfully Africa is for our African children
BRING BACK APARTHIED
Three wrongs don't make a right.
FIGHT for the land .
Soon you will feel it don't worry
Bring it back and let's see what will happen.