There's a lot of information that's being recorded on this sheet, but a lot of it is largely inconsequential to a player's decision for where to farm, so if that is the purpose of this sheet, then there is a lot you can get rid of. Additional Exp% is unnecessary because players will either have the exp multipliers or not, and there is not much the player can do if they don't have 3x coupons/Zero legion/Mercedes Link/MVP buff/Loaded Dice/Pendant of the Spirit. Also, extrapolating Raw exp% rates from the %exp multiplier and before & after is unreliable due to the various temporary or non-visual exp multipliers, such as level difference, event exp bonuses (the 30 exp bursts a day), rune buffs (affected by Evan Link Level), etc. To account for all of these different factors, you'd need to note way too much information, and this is all unnecessary since there is a simpler and more reliable way of expressing how effective a map's exp rates are. Fundamentally, all exp rates are derivations of 2 things: kill rate and exp per mob. A column for Kill Count and a column for training duration would give you the Kill Count/hr. The raw exp per mob kill can be found on maplemaps.net for each map(I believe there's a giant spreadsheet with this info for lv200+ maps as well). The product of these would give you the raw exp/hr for that map, which would be all you need to compare different maps in terms of where you should farm. It would be up to the individual player to be aware of all the various exp multipliers to capitalize on that information. Arguably, you would also need a column for what class is farming on each map, because different classes are better suited for different maps, but Sol Janus may even out the playing field, so that's your call. The columns for Mesos, frags, nodes, and fams are also not useful atm because, unless I am blind, I do not see any note of the Meso%, Drop Rate%, and Auto Steal correlated with those yields. As such, those numbers exist in a vacuum. Hopefully this all made sense, but I'll try to reply if you have any questions.
Though you've made some fair points, I have to disagree with a few and most are due to the fact that getting exact numbers are unlikely in any scenario due to unpredictable circumstances. This sheet/tool is purely to get a better idea of how much exp is gained in xyz scenario. I have to disagree with you on your point regarding sdditional EXP: it's needed to find the raw exp% gained in a session. It calculates everything you had mentioned like difference in coupons, mvp, legion, links, pendant of spirit, even burning maps - it ALL can now be accounted for by just looking at raw exp% gained. So, if you're missing out on 3 factors of additional EXP gain, but can make up for that difference in a 3x coupon compared to their 2x or whatever the case, effectively, it is the exact same. The main factor that matters aside from kill count, is that additional exp% and if the classes/players can map clear upon respawn. A column for kill count and a column for training duration - sure can give an hourly count, but everyone's human and maybe missed 2 mobs for a few spawns or maybe they took a portal, or maybe they had the blue thunder wolf spawn, or the butterflies, or the gargoyles I think they are... How would we ever know we have accurate info besides the Battle Analysis? We wouldn't. Your method is also implying every player/class can map clear upon spawn - which simply isn't true for every situation. Battle Analysis provides the most accurate data. The commant about meso%/drop% is valid - I was considering adding this before going to sleep last night - so rest assured I'll be making a visually pleasing addition with this.
@@uncappedgames5200 Using exp% as a metric is fundamentally flawed in a game that has a non-linearly scaling exp curve for each level. I could be farming just as effectively as someone else, but my exp% would be halved because I'm a higher level. Your sheet in its current state would tell me that I'm only farming at half efficiency, until you also include separate columns for mob level and character level, include the level exp multiplier in the exp% values, and then also use formulas to account for the fact that 1% exp at level 270 ~= 3% exp at level 260 due to the exp curve, as an example. Either that, or you assume that players just inherently know how much 1% exp is worth at each level, which does not sound reasonable to me at all. It is much more straightforward and digestible to a viewer to just express exp rates as their values in M/s or B/hr If a player has 300% additional exp on map 1 vs 300% additional exp on map 2, it makes literally no difference in the decision-making process. I also can't imagine a scenario in which an individual player would choose to have 300% exp on one map, but only 200% on another map, if they're trying their best to get exp on both maps. There is only one exp multiplier that changes with the map, which is burning, and I have yet to ever farm on a good map that had any burning. In 99% of all scenarios, additional exp is irrelevant to map choice. If burning is a meaningful and relevant multiplier for training in maps lv 270 and beyond, and I just haven't seen it yet myself, then you can correct me on this point. I never asked for optimal kill rates or maximum farming efficiency, so not sure why you're talking about human error or assuming every player can map clear on spawn. All I meant was for people to do a BA, take the mobs killed, put in the time in hours, then divide to get a kill rate with a spreadsheet formula. Were you thinking I was expecting people to keep track of their exact kill counts without doing a BA? Using maple maps to get the exp per mob kill is simply an additional step to ensure that getting 15k kills per hour in Cernium gives more exp than 17k kills per hour in Limina, as an example.
@@rsking6120 1.) There is a section for levels - this is not there to be ignored - due to the scaling exp requirement. Also, It is vital to consider additional exp% so we can get the RAW EXP% and calculate from the total exp gained. I felt that was fairly clear and direct in my objective here. Getting a flat number wouldn't be much different. 2.) Burning maps are calculated in your Additional EXP - which is asked for in the sheet to gain a better idea of what map gives better RAW EXP% because not everyone can manage the same exact Additional EXP 3.) I'm entirely unsure of what you're asking tbh. Everything you're claiming is not being accounted for is in fact being accounted for. Maps, burning, kill count, levels, and even things you didn't mention like Portals and variance between other mobs spawning have been accounted for in this formula. Simply put, if you can provide me an exact formula or clear-cut and concise explanation of what it is that I'm not accounting for that is not within the sheet, please do. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure what your point is, considering what you've stated being a problematic factor has already been considered.
@@uncappedgames5200 1) There needs to be a distinction between mob level and character level due to the final exp multiplier based on level difference that is not displayed in the additional exp stat. The only way to ignore this distinction would be to assume that characters are always training on mobs within 1 level of their own. 2) I understand that burning is a part of additional exp. What I asked, which you didn't respond to, was if you ever actually get burning while training, because if you don't, then there will never be a difference in additional exp between maps. 3) So your first entry was 7437 kills in what I'm assuming is 30 minutes? Can't tell because you don't have a column for training duration yet. 7437/0.5 = 14874 kills/hr From Maple Maps: Gentle Summer exp per mob = 2.94M exp Raw Exp Rate: 14874 * 2.94M = 43.72956 B exp/hr Having Exp rates in B/hr rather than exp%/hr would allow you to compare rates between different level ranges directly, which would be infinitely more useful than only being able to compare to other entries within the same level. If you don't see the utility in this, then I don't have anything else to say.
@@rsking6120 1.) I think both of our concerns are considered in the sheet, no? Level is mentioned, but if you are X level and you are killing X-5 levels as opposed to X-1 levels, you don't think the END result of how much raw exp someone got is more important than taking additional steps to consider and take note of the level / exp difference? If I get more exp at X-5 level maps, I will be training there. Also, with the current formula, it does not* consider everyone is training on mobs within a level of their own, but, in fact, your method would require it to be added into the equation. Because then flat exp is flat exp*(with a big asterisk and more to consider). 2.) Whether you get burning or not is irrelevant in this sheet - burning, if any, is considered in the additional exp column. There is an argument to be made to maybe indicate whether the map you grinded at is commonly high burning or not, but I feel that could be considered as fluff for the purpose of this tool. However, if people want it enough, I could add it. 3.) My sessions are considered to be 30min - In cell G3, I have 30min listed there. I feel it's fair to assume the rest of each entry is 30min just by that 1 cell. Thank you for explaining your point further about the value of having flat exp as well as opposed to only* exp%. But, even with this consideration, I still look at the end result of "I got X raw EXP% at Y map, being Z level" over the flat numbers. I feel what you're saying is what I'm doing, but purely in flat exp vs exp%, I'm quite unsure of what we're missing on both ends in our discussion. Utilizing that formula of (Mob kill * raw mob exp * additional exp) would require players to input more cells that they will have to do research on and, thus, adding another step to this process that, frankly, I find unnecessary. Either that or I set a script up to determine each map's mob(s) and automate that process - this will take way too much time and is not future-proof due to the game's constant updates. In a world where the exp curve gets reduced, then fine - you definitely win the battle of flat exp vs exp%. I'm not saying there's no point to your side, I'm saying the more ideal route and more consumable route is exp% - while still considering level of character, additional exp, raw exp%, portals, etc. There's value for both, but I'm also trying to provide a tool that isn't "Okay fill out 50 things to find optimal rates after 10 entries" - that's not what I want for this game's community. I want easy to digest and simple to understand tools that gives the correct information to help players make better informed decisions and find optimal routes for grinding. That being said, I will *try* and integrate a flat exp section, but I want to make it easy to utilize for people filling out entries.
![[Maplestory] Star Force & Potential Priority Guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AhrHldS0eWo/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Maplestory] Star Force & Potential Priority Guide](/img/tr.png)
![[Maplestory] General Gear Progression Guide (with Written updated 6/11/24)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AMeodnl2Q3k/mqdefault.jpg)
There's a lot of information that's being recorded on this sheet, but a lot of it is largely inconsequential to a player's decision for where to farm, so if that is the purpose of this sheet, then there is a lot you can get rid of.
Additional Exp% is unnecessary because players will either have the exp multipliers or not, and there is not much the player can do if they don't have 3x coupons/Zero legion/Mercedes Link/MVP buff/Loaded Dice/Pendant of the Spirit. Also, extrapolating Raw exp% rates from the %exp multiplier and before & after is unreliable due to the various temporary or non-visual exp multipliers, such as level difference, event exp bonuses (the 30 exp bursts a day), rune buffs (affected by Evan Link Level), etc. To account for all of these different factors, you'd need to note way too much information, and this is all unnecessary since there is a simpler and more reliable way of expressing how effective a map's exp rates are.
Fundamentally, all exp rates are derivations of 2 things: kill rate and exp per mob. A column for Kill Count and a column for training duration would give you the Kill Count/hr. The raw exp per mob kill can be found on maplemaps.net for each map(I believe there's a giant spreadsheet with this info for lv200+ maps as well). The product of these would give you the raw exp/hr for that map, which would be all you need to compare different maps in terms of where you should farm. It would be up to the individual player to be aware of all the various exp multipliers to capitalize on that information. Arguably, you would also need a column for what class is farming on each map, because different classes are better suited for different maps, but Sol Janus may even out the playing field, so that's your call.
The columns for Mesos, frags, nodes, and fams are also not useful atm because, unless I am blind, I do not see any note of the Meso%, Drop Rate%, and Auto Steal correlated with those yields. As such, those numbers exist in a vacuum.
Hopefully this all made sense, but I'll try to reply if you have any questions.
Though you've made some fair points, I have to disagree with a few and most are due to the fact that getting exact numbers are unlikely in any scenario due to unpredictable circumstances. This sheet/tool is purely to get a better idea of how much exp is gained in xyz scenario.
I have to disagree with you on your point regarding sdditional EXP: it's needed to find the raw exp% gained in a session. It calculates everything you had mentioned like difference in coupons, mvp, legion, links, pendant of spirit, even burning maps - it ALL can now be accounted for by just looking at raw exp% gained. So, if you're missing out on 3 factors of additional EXP gain, but can make up for that difference in a 3x coupon compared to their 2x or whatever the case, effectively, it is the exact same. The main factor that matters aside from kill count, is that additional exp% and if the classes/players can map clear upon respawn.
A column for kill count and a column for training duration - sure can give an hourly count, but everyone's human and maybe missed 2 mobs for a few spawns or maybe they took a portal, or maybe they had the blue thunder wolf spawn, or the butterflies, or the gargoyles I think they are... How would we ever know we have accurate info besides the Battle Analysis? We wouldn't. Your method is also implying every player/class can map clear upon spawn - which simply isn't true for every situation. Battle Analysis provides the most accurate data.
The commant about meso%/drop% is valid - I was considering adding this before going to sleep last night - so rest assured I'll be making a visually pleasing addition with this.
@@uncappedgames5200
Using exp% as a metric is fundamentally flawed in a game that has a non-linearly scaling exp curve for each level. I could be farming just as effectively as someone else, but my exp% would be halved because I'm a higher level. Your sheet in its current state would tell me that I'm only farming at half efficiency, until you also include separate columns for mob level and character level, include the level exp multiplier in the exp% values, and then also use formulas to account for the fact that 1% exp at level 270 ~= 3% exp at level 260 due to the exp curve, as an example. Either that, or you assume that players just inherently know how much 1% exp is worth at each level, which does not sound reasonable to me at all. It is much more straightforward and digestible to a viewer to just express exp rates as their values in M/s or B/hr
If a player has 300% additional exp on map 1 vs 300% additional exp on map 2, it makes literally no difference in the decision-making process. I also can't imagine a scenario in which an individual player would choose to have 300% exp on one map, but only 200% on another map, if they're trying their best to get exp on both maps. There is only one exp multiplier that changes with the map, which is burning, and I have yet to ever farm on a good map that had any burning. In 99% of all scenarios, additional exp is irrelevant to map choice. If burning is a meaningful and relevant multiplier for training in maps lv 270 and beyond, and I just haven't seen it yet myself, then you can correct me on this point.
I never asked for optimal kill rates or maximum farming efficiency, so not sure why you're talking about human error or assuming every player can map clear on spawn. All I meant was for people to do a BA, take the mobs killed, put in the time in hours, then divide to get a kill rate with a spreadsheet formula. Were you thinking I was expecting people to keep track of their exact kill counts without doing a BA? Using maple maps to get the exp per mob kill is simply an additional step to ensure that getting 15k kills per hour in Cernium gives more exp than 17k kills per hour in Limina, as an example.
@@rsking6120
1.) There is a section for levels - this is not there to be ignored - due to the scaling exp requirement. Also, It is vital to consider additional exp% so we can get the RAW EXP% and calculate from the total exp gained. I felt that was fairly clear and direct in my objective here. Getting a flat number wouldn't be much different.
2.) Burning maps are calculated in your Additional EXP - which is asked for in the sheet to gain a better idea of what map gives better RAW EXP% because not everyone can manage the same exact Additional EXP
3.) I'm entirely unsure of what you're asking tbh. Everything you're claiming is not being accounted for is in fact being accounted for.
Maps, burning, kill count, levels, and even things you didn't mention like Portals and variance between other mobs spawning have been accounted for in this formula. Simply put, if you can provide me an exact formula or clear-cut and concise explanation of what it is that I'm not accounting for that is not within the sheet, please do. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure what your point is, considering what you've stated being a problematic factor has already been considered.
@@uncappedgames5200 1) There needs to be a distinction between mob level and character level due to the final exp multiplier based on level difference that is not displayed in the additional exp stat. The only way to ignore this distinction would be to assume that characters are always training on mobs within 1 level of their own.
2) I understand that burning is a part of additional exp. What I asked, which you didn't respond to, was if you ever actually get burning while training, because if you don't, then there will never be a difference in additional exp between maps.
3) So your first entry was 7437 kills in what I'm assuming is 30 minutes? Can't tell because you don't have a column for training duration yet.
7437/0.5 = 14874 kills/hr
From Maple Maps: Gentle Summer exp per mob = 2.94M exp
Raw Exp Rate: 14874 * 2.94M = 43.72956 B exp/hr
Having Exp rates in B/hr rather than exp%/hr would allow you to compare rates between different level ranges directly, which would be infinitely more useful than only being able to compare to other entries within the same level. If you don't see the utility in this, then I don't have anything else to say.
@@rsking6120 1.) I think both of our concerns are considered in the sheet, no? Level is mentioned, but if you are X level and you are killing X-5 levels as opposed to X-1 levels, you don't think the END result of how much raw exp someone got is more important than taking additional steps to consider and take note of the level / exp difference? If I get more exp at X-5 level maps, I will be training there. Also, with the current formula, it does not* consider everyone is training on mobs within a level of their own, but, in fact, your method would require it to be added into the equation. Because then flat exp is flat exp*(with a big asterisk and more to consider).
2.) Whether you get burning or not is irrelevant in this sheet - burning, if any, is considered in the additional exp column. There is an argument to be made to maybe indicate whether the map you grinded at is commonly high burning or not, but I feel that could be considered as fluff for the purpose of this tool. However, if people want it enough, I could add it.
3.) My sessions are considered to be 30min - In cell G3, I have 30min listed there. I feel it's fair to assume the rest of each entry is 30min just by that 1 cell.
Thank you for explaining your point further about the value of having flat exp as well as opposed to only* exp%. But, even with this consideration, I still look at the end result of "I got X raw EXP% at Y map, being Z level" over the flat numbers. I feel what you're saying is what I'm doing, but purely in flat exp vs exp%, I'm quite unsure of what we're missing on both ends in our discussion. Utilizing that formula of (Mob kill * raw mob exp * additional exp) would require players to input more cells that they will have to do research on and, thus, adding another step to this process that, frankly, I find unnecessary. Either that or I set a script up to determine each map's mob(s) and automate that process - this will take way too much time and is not future-proof due to the game's constant updates. In a world where the exp curve gets reduced, then fine - you definitely win the battle of flat exp vs exp%. I'm not saying there's no point to your side, I'm saying the more ideal route and more consumable route is exp% - while still considering level of character, additional exp, raw exp%, portals, etc.
There's value for both, but I'm also trying to provide a tool that isn't "Okay fill out 50 things to find optimal rates after 10 entries" - that's not what I want for this game's community. I want easy to digest and simple to understand tools that gives the correct information to help players make better informed decisions and find optimal routes for grinding.
That being said, I will *try* and integrate a flat exp section, but I want to make it easy to utilize for people filling out entries.
All ur guides are extremely informative. SUBBED !
lets get hat 1k
First
Oof.. And last 🥴
@@uncappedgames5200 liked, commented, and already subscribed.