The biggest advantage of the Dominion against the Borg, is that the 3 species at the top of the Dominion are terrible candidates for assimilation. The Jem'hadar rely on ketracel white to survive, the Vorta have self termination implants that would likely stop the assimilation process cold, and the founders are basically goo without a circulatory system or organs for the Borg nanoprobes to start the assimilation process. For the Borg to gain the intelligence upper hand they would need to focus on assimilating other Dominion subject peoples, and even that would be limiting, because Dominion subjects seem to know little more than fear of the Jem'hadar about the Dominion. I used to think the Borg would easily defeat the Dominion, now I'm not so certain. The Borg would have to attack with numbers they usually wouldn't bring to bear. Great video, thank you.
I agree with with this but the founders were infected by a virus so the nano probes should be able to affect them also. The question i think would be could they expel them from their bodies before they could do the job which i think is a good possibility.
You are overlooking one of the biggest advantages the Borg have: assimilation. It's more than just turning someone into a drone. They assimilate both life forms and technology, along with any knowledge or data. All it would take is the assimilation of a single Vorta or Jem'Hadar and the entire Collective would know about the ketracel white, the Jem'Hadar dependence on it, and it wouldn't take long to adapt to it. Drones are, remember, more or less self-sustaining in terms of biological needs and only need energy to keep going. It's not beyond what's accepted as canon to say the Borg would find a way for assimilated Jem'Hadar to produce their own ketracel white--or eliminate the need for it entirely. As for the Founders. . .Section 31 developed a biological weapon that nearly killed them all. Do you think the Borg would have much difficulty developing a way to assimilate them using something similar if they decided to? And it is canon that they were working on way to use a bio-ish weapon against Earth and let's not forget what they were able to do to Species whatsit, 8472? (with help from Janeway, of course). The Dominion might be able to defeat a single cube. Maybe a few more. Starfleet has, more than once. But hundreds of cubes? Thousands? The Dominion wouldn't stand a chance.
The Borg would have little interest in the Vorta and Jem'hadar. IIRC, those races are mostly clones. Assimilate a few samples and you basically learn everything about both races. The Founders with their unique abilities would be of great interest to the Borg. But the Founders hide away from almost everyone, so the Borg may not consider it worth the trouble of rooting them out. I always wondered what Starfleet would do if the Borg had crashed the Dominion War looking for Founders to assimilate.
5:41 Only 4 known Vorta? Eris (The Jem’Hadar), Bortas (The Search), Weyoun (For The Cause etc), Kilana (The Ship), Keevan (Rocks and Shoals), Yelgrun (The Magnificent Ferengi), Luaran (Tacking Into The Wind), Gelnon (Honour Among Thieves)… I got 8!
I imagine the Borg would figure out some kind of radiation that destroys the ketracel white. The Jem hedar are a worthless species in the grand scheme.
A Borg cube can carry tens of thousands of drones. While the jem'h'dar certainly would kill many drones in a boarding action, they wouldn't be able to diminish their numbers quickly enough to really weaken the cube due to lack of drones. That being said, the dominion has no problem using ramming attacks when their weapons become ineffective, or even just to prove a point. As far as we have seen, the Borg do not have the ability to adapt to such tactics. The dominion would win several battles, until the Borg either consider them a big enough threat, or unworthy of further attention. If the Borg considered the dominion a real threat, they could send an enormous force of cubes to destroy the Dominion. As vast as the Dominion is and as impressive as their ability to produce ships and warriors is, they do not hold a candle to the population and capabilities of the Borg. The founders may be immune to assimilation, or they may be susceptible, we'll assume them immune for now. The jem'h'dar however are likely vulnerable, and would be assimilated easily. Their dependency of ketracel white not being a problem for Borg nanoprobes to replicate or compensate for. Borg do not eat, or even breathe, they only need energy for their organic components to be supplied with everything they need to survive. Their strong, durable frames and shrouding ability would make them excellent tactical drones. The vorta are likely not worthy of assimilation, except maybe their energy blast ability that was only shown in a single episode and may have had a technological origin not shown. The Borg may be especially interested in the Dominion's cloning technology. As far as we know, Borg drones do not reproduce biologically to produce more drones, they must assimilate other beings into their collective to increase their numbers. If the Borg gain the ability to quickly produce an unlimited number of disposable drones without the need to expend resources on assimilating other species, resistance would truly be futile.
Great video! I agree, the Borg would be too much for the Dominion. The borg considered their losses to the federation as tactical defeats. The federation ultimately isn’t worth worrying about atm. The dominion pose a much greater threat. They’re aggressive in ways the federation couldn’t accept. I’d rather take my chances with the Borg. They’re not motivated to pursue unless they need to know how to assimilate. The Dominion might not be worth assimilating, but their threat is too real. I’d love to see a Star Trek “what if?” Featuring these two. Thanks for doing this, it was fun! Edit - Also, I don’t see why the founders could be difficult to assimilate. They’re nanites, and the founders are still physical organisms with actual cells, or cell-like bodies. It wouldn’t take long for the borg to assimilate the founders. Then you end up with borgified founders. That’s a scary proposition!
The Borg win period. The Jem'Hadar and Vorta would be assimilated in the first encounter. The dependency on white would be easily removed and the Vorta would not know to kill themselves before capture. After that the rest is just adaptation. The founders are nothing special for the Borg. The Borg could take out the Federation at any time if they wanted. They have never bothered to make any real move.
The ST galaxy, being divided into four quadrants has a map showing the Gamma and Delta quadrants sitting side by side in what we would call the NW & NE areas. Both empires are supposed to be 10, 000 years old. And in each being so, how has there never been even a single battle between the two? Transwarp tunnels would definitely make it happen and we know that the Borg like to pick fights with tough enemies (the even went into the fluidic space dimension to engage 8472) and yet in the neighboring quadrant no ventures? There’s a story somewhere there worthy of exploring with thousands of years to boot. It’s also worth noting that Janeway engaged the Borg in their home territory, the DS9 folks occasionally ventured into the Gamma Quadrant but by and large the bulk of the Dominion War was in the Alpha Quadrant where they were far away from their territory and required making alliances with the Cardassians and the Breen to aid in getting the job done. We’ve never seen what the Dominion could do defending their own space. For all we know, they could have a bunch of extra tricks up their sleeve like they had against the Obsidian/Tal Shiar alliance attack. Honestly I don’t know who would win, but I would prefer it to be the Dominion simply because I hate and loathe the Borg, especially the original way they were undefeatable in the same way Superman and Darth Vader irritate me to no end. As for VOY making them weak, you could say that PIC did the same thing with the Changeling, making her serve a dying weak Borg Queen. So it’s basically the VOY neutering but in the other direction, so there’s that….
The borg would destroy the dominion in very short order. while the dominion is powerful they are slow to adapt. the only reason they were so powerful against the federation is their tech was so different. this would be an advantage for exactly one encounter with the borg. just one. :-) then it would be all downhill. sure they might have trouble assimilating (but not destroying that would be easy) changelings but changelings are not really that powerful without their subjects. not enough of them. it would be a brutal nasty very short war.
I believe I made that point in the video as the Borg began taking over Dominion territory. But it is my firm belief that if the Dominion were to fall the channelings would do everything to ensure the Borg would go down with them. At least as many of them as possible. If you enjoyed this video please consider watching our other content and subscribing
@@QuestionOfTrek sure but they are impotent. they can't DO anything to make the borg fall with them. the changelings really have no power. they can't actually DO anything except subterfuge and stealth and internal tactics (which would not work on the borg) there is not ENOUGH of them. And those cloaked mines would not harm borg ships. so the dominion would throw themselves against a wall of mines that would not harm the borg. they would just die. I think this is why they had to tone down the borg. just too OP.
The Dominion is slow to adapt using traditional technology. They are extremely quick to adapt using bio technology. The Dominion would engineer a retrovirus that destroys drones and have two more ready to go when the Borg eventually adapted to the first one.
@@QuestionOfTrekthe Dominion would fall before the changelings even found out about the Borg arriving. Because of the nature of the gamma quadrant Jem'Hadar and Vorta, all encounters with the Borg would end with no survivors.
It's pretty obvious to me that the Borg would win a straight fight based on the Dominion we saw in DS9 and the Borg we saw in TNG and First Contact (maybe the Dominion could take the cucked Borg we got in the last two seasons of Voyager but that is another discussion). A single Cube almost wiped out earth and decapitated the entire federation not once but twice. Keep in mind that the Collective has thousands if not millions of cubes at their disposal. A well-armed Dominion attack force can be legitimately challenged by a fleet of federation ships, a single cube suffered nothing but superficial damage against what was surely a massive fleet in First Contact and probably could have kept going and wiped the entire federation out if it wasn't for inside information that Picard brought to the fight. I am not saying that there aren't some long-shot scenarios where the Dominion could turn the tables, just that in a straight fight the Borg would win hands-down. One obscure plot twist where I could see the Dominion potentially gaining the upper hand is with the Founders and just how similar their cellular structure is to a species like 8472. It is unclear if the Borg could assimilate a Changeling as we know that the Borg have difficulty assimilating certain exotic cellular structures. If the Borg would encounter the same difficulty with Founders as they would with 8472 (and that is a big "if") then the question is whether or not the Dominion would be able/willing to incorporate that cellular structure into Dominion weaponry and create biological weaponry that could be as effective against the Borg as 8472's bioships were. A lot of speculation here though, the Jem'hadar and Vorta certainly wouldn't even be willing to entertain using divine Founder tissue in such a disrespectful manner, but maybe they would if the Founders made the order. Given how much of a long-shot this is, I would still say the odds favor the Borg big time, especially if the Borg got serious about the fight and sent an entire fleet instead of a single cube.
I completely agree with this video the Borg would freaking dominate the dominion it wouldn’t even be close as the dominion fleets would essentially be little more than food for the borg and the occasional stop gap at best and the founders have nothing they can do to the borg as their ability to assimilate and adapt would quickly conquer any technology or biological weapons and a majority of the biological ‘advantages’ that the founders have would be rendered moot by the sheer numbers of the borg and the collective mind which essentially eliminates any possible individual subterfuge it would be so one sided that it’s ridiculous The federation which doesn’t stand a very good chance against the borg still stands a better chance than the dominion does
Depend on which version of the borg your talking about. If it's the same borg that got defeated on the daily by Janeway then it's the dominion, without a doubt. If its the unstoppable all coming force they were made out to be at their debut? borg, no problem. And it just kind of flip flops as the writers add nerfs or buffs throughout their history.
Neither Janeway nor the Federation have ever had the Borg put forth a serious effort to take them out. Just the usual low effort of the Collective. Even when the Borg had went after Earth directly they never have put forth a serious effort. The Borg could streamroll them at will. Even the Dominion would be even easier for the Borg.
eveb though that would happen, the borg do not need the wormhole to get to the alpha quadrent, thats what their transwarp ability, liek in voyager when they arived in the alpha quadrent formt he Gamma
Vorta that we know of: 1. The one who does the psychokenisis, in the first episode with them in it. 2. Weyoun 3. The one in The Ship 4. There's one more that is dying in an episode. 5. Iggy Pop I'm sure there are more than that which we see on screen, there are several mentioned that we don't see, so there are more that 4. Do you do ANY research?
Transwarp Network Gateway - massive fleets from the Unicomplex go immediately into the Gamma Quadrant. They don't need a wormhole or anything. And also probably a cube sent back through time to assimilate the Founders and Jem Hadar while weak. Also, a Borg Queen doesn't "go" anywhere. There is only one Borg Queen at any time.
Yes, and also the Borg's tactical cube is impervious to ramming ships, even at warp speed. They also use personal shielding and can phase, making hand to hand combat impossible with them. The Dominion would be a very, very weak adversary for them.
Till the Jem H’dar would be assimilated and then the changelings, the Borg command more ships and troops and would develop a weapon to naturalise the changelings, the “Houdini’s” would be picked up by bork drones sensors and the Dominion would fall. It would be game over for the Dominion and the changelings. Starfleet even managed to infect them with a virus and then manipulate their genome. So it would be a complete Borg win.
i dont think it would, considering the size of the Borg, if the Borg truely wanted to assamalate or take out the Dominion they would send a few thousand Borg ships of various sizes.
I believe the word you're looking for to describe the Dominion is hegemony. It's effectively a collection of vassal states that owe fealty and tribute to the Founders or else.
No the term "hegemony" implies dominance through soft power and a more passive form of military intimidation, more like the US or the old British Empire. Hegemony is a bit more subtle; the Dominion were more of a proper empire.
@@mbaxter22not sure how you get the Dominion as being an empire. The vast majority of people didn't even know who the founders were just that they were.
The borg win this. The Founders can’t fake being a Borg due to them not being in the collective. Without that they are just another empire to fall when the Borg adapt to their tech
3 attack ships take out a Cube No way 13 might be possible but very unlikely 30 possible still doubtful Attack ships just don't have the necessary firepower.
@@nerys71 Yeah I disagree with that concept as well. The Jem got lucky against the Fed during their first encounter. Look at the Battle of Wolf 359, where ONE Cube took down 39 Fed ships of various classes. A Borg Cube pretty much ignores shields and the Dominion wouldn't know the trick of changing shield frequency to defend against their beams and transporters (because, in addition to ship weapons, the Borg would be beaming in Drones to takeover ship systems and assimilate the crew). 3 Jem Fighters would be eaten up pretty quick by a Cube. Maybe QuestionOfTrek was thinking 3 Jem'Hadar Battlecruisers rather than the Fighters?
true, but the federation were using mostly older class ships, doesnt help when you have miranda, excelsior and constitutions in the fleet. only a battle section foa galaxy class and maybe 1 or 2 ambassador and nebula classes were involved.
If it was an all out assault the Borg would win no contest, it was mentioned in Voyager that there are millions of Borg ships of varying sizes. Whereas the Dominion fleet while still outnumbering all the Alpha Quadrant races is in the tens of thousands (although in a wartime footing can build attack ships very quickly) lets say 50,000 fighters in total. However the Borg would only send what they would deem efficient to conquer the Dominion, maybe a hundred cubes. The Borg have also shown a limit to their ability to adapt and regenerate while in withering combat, their cubes appear to be weak to sustained waves of highly maneuverable attack ships, which the Dominion excel at. Dominion Polaron torpedoes would probably by more effective than Federation phasers and photons. The Borg would not emerge unscathed, however in the end Resistance might be futile. One possibility also is the Alpha Quadrant might come to the aid of the Dominion to prevent some of the Founders technology being assimilated.
Yes, maybe one could kill the Queen but not take her place in the sense of leading the collective. They’d only be able to imitate the queens physical likeness, not her technologically networked connection to the hive.
How can the changeling take the place of the Queen? They may be able to look like her, but when she gives orders she doesn't need to speak. She is, as she told Picard, in many places at the same time. The changeling isn't able to do that. Unless they get assimilated in which case it kinda negates the whole theory.
They explored this idea in the 1st Star Trek armada game the borg it wasn't cannon I think but It made sense the dominion wasn't ready for the borg as you really had to know exactly how to beat them like ex borg did such as Picard. The borg often used the ships of there victims technology against them and if the doimion lost enough of Ketracel-white production quickly it could be a landslide victory for the borg which is easily possible.
We should also not forget the borg did have as use time travel technology against the federation in 1st contact so it definitely would use that if needed ots hard to say what the founders could do in response with out full knowledge of the same technology with there hierarchies limiting the same type of response the federation had and knowledge from picard it might lead to the whole area being take using that technology.
The 2 greatest villains in Star Trek... In truth, i strongly suspect that they would both be quite happy leaving the other alone... Both have extremely powerful militarys...
Great video. Just a thought, why didn't a Starfleet captain just suggest replicating the plot armor all on-screen Starships have and passing that out to the fleet to defeat both enemies at the same time?
@@QuestionOfTrekNo, it would not help at all. The Borg nanoprobes would not be stopped at all. Immunity to poisons and toxins is completely different.
Everyone keeps asking the unstoppable force question, but I’m pretty sure the kinetic energy is transferred into heat, so it would melt the unmovable object.
Whichever side won would then be much too powerful with the combined knowledge from both, and as such would totally obliterate Starfleet after some recuperation.
As has been shown, the borg would adapt to the mine field. This would end up placing the borg in federation space. The borg would of learnt of the regeneration cycle weakness of the dominions changeling leaders, and sadly eradicated them. Though as the borg are experts at adapting, I do think the nanites would of been adapted to assimilate the changelings. thus leading to a new form of borg reminiscent of the second terminator, or lesser third form. Liquid borg....considering how many shapeshifting aliens there are in the series it is only a matter of time. However, as the borg have been shown with a weakness to projectile based weapons, physical weapons would be effective against them.
I think the dominion would be willing to use the attack fighterd to ram the cubes, or the strike cruisers, i think 1 would take out a cube. The dominion could replace their lost ships and jem hadar without too much trouble. I think a better question to ask is, would the dominion try and capture a cube? 100,000 of those methed up, sword wielding addicts would cause problems for drones if they were beamed onto a cube, i think they would initiate a self destruct rathrr than lose a cube.
I disagree as how would the dominion cope with 100 borg cubes and obviously the borg would associate the voltage and the Jem Hadar. If a Starfleet Armad of 39 ships couldn't defeat a single cube I don't think a dominion fleet would win. I mean the only treason the borg cube was destroyed in First Contact was because Picard knew precisely where to fire to destroy it as he was still connected and could hear the borg.
And how many cubes did Voyager defeat. Keep in mind after WOLF 359 a whole new line of ships were created in defeating the Borg like The Sovereign, The Akira, The Prometheus, the Intrepid And the Defiant class ships which were still vulnerable to the Dominion.
I was thinking about this and the changelings/founders would be the difference. Can the Borg even assimilate them? If not, they could enter Borg Cubes at will and sabotage them.
I was also wondering if a Founder could be assimilated and what effects would each gain or suffer. Both would likely suffer insanity, due from each others alien hive mind processes (unexpected).
The Borg couldn't give them the 'ol chop off an arm and weld a wifi router to the head, but the Borg's opening gambit for a race they want to assimilate is a heaping injection tube full of nanites to prepare the target. I see no reason why The Collective couldn't figure out a way to use them to assimilate a Changeling at a cellular level, even if they couldn't give one the chopshop special afterward. They could even load up an assimilated Changeling with modified nanites to infect all the Changelings in The Great Link.
@@nextlevelenglish5858 are you sure? I could see it going either way? Founders are very resilient and can do a lot of things with their body. They were even able to turn into mists (something that wouldn't even have a form that nanoprobes could assimilate). I could see a Founder crushing all the nanoprobes as soon as it goes into their body. Founders, at first glance, seem to be more resilient than even Species 8472.
I did. point that out in the video that’s why the Jem Hadar would use their bladed weapons which we know Borg drones are susceptible. Also the ships would start making suicide runs.
@@starbugmechanic5236 In the video it was shown that the Dominion ships make suicide runs into the cube as they did to the USS Odyssey in the DS9 episode”Jem Hadar”
@@QuestionOfTrek suicide runs would have no effect on the borg. In the pilot we can see an Excelsior ship flying towards the cube at Wolf 359 and nothing happens.
@@nextlevelenglish5858 The excelsior wasn’t on a suicide run but rather an attack fly by which was halted by a tractor beam. Given the smaller size and sheer number of the Jem Hadar fighters the Borg wouldn’t be able to stop them all.
@@QuestionOfTrek I doubt that all of the existing novelists own the I.P. either, I believe when they submit their novels to a publisher that the publishers acquire a license. You ought to look into it... at the very least.
@@jamesdietz29 I don’t know how that works to be honest. I could look into it. I always assumed the IP holders commission the writers to produce more merch for the existing franchise.
@@QuestionOfTrek Screenplays may be commissioned, but I think novels are licensed after they are written prior to publishing. If you pursue this, I wish you success!
The Borg vs Star Gate's Replicators who would win a war and adapt faster? I put my money on Replicators because the Borg would become an all you can eat buffet.
Once you accept that 3 Jem fighters = 1 Borg cube, it becomes a question of "Can the Borg produce cubes faster than the Dominion builds fighters?". Doubt that. How do you address the kamikaze approach?
a borg cube would not have much trouble with even 30 jem hadar fighters. remember even against federation tech the jem hardar weapons were effective but not obscenely powerful in comparison. borg weapons are obscenely powerful in comparison. there is no way crashing a jem fighter into a borg ship would destroy 75% of it. entire STARSHIPS crashed into borg cubes doing basically nothing.
@@nerys71 I tend to agree! Not only that, but when the Enterprise first encounter a Borg cube in System J-25, the Borg adapted very quickly to both the phasers and photon torpedoes to the point that everything Picard threw at them did nothing at all. I suspect the Borg would adapt quickly to the various Dominion energy weapons.
Nothing. The "kamikaze" would do absolutely nothing. In the battle of Wolf 359 we see an excelsior ship fly into a borg cube (implied, at the beginning of the pilot of DS9) and NOTHING happens. So the little jem hadar ships would explode within the Borg electomagnetic field and the cube would remain intact.
One cube against the dominion fleet dominion there ships are Tiffany they got the jem Hadar supersoldiers on steroids so even when the Borg adapt jem Hadar are good at Kombat
I'm going to post two comments this the first comment without viewing the video . I will do a second comment after the video . The tech tree that the dominion have is extremely esoteric in nature and the Dominion forces won't stop killing a Borg cube until it is gone like Picard did during his initial encounter with the borg . Still Borg adaptation will occur sooner or later to Dominion weapons . So if it is a small Borg incursion then the dominion if in "character" would stomp a small force of one and maybe even two Borg cubes . Beyond two cubes the Borg adaptation comes online and it becomes a brutal slugfest. Dominion ships are both sheilded and armored very well . The Gem Haddar would be difficult to assimilate because of their physical prowess and their dependency on ketracell white . The dominion and the Gem Haddar are the perfect rivals to the Borg . Having said that a large enough Borg presence would eventually overwhelm the dominion and the Gem Haddar like any other species . There would be catastrophic casualties on both sides but no side would care about their own casualties in this or any other fight . Great match up .
Interesting, but it is based on the idea that it would be a slugfest between the 2. The Borg assimilate new technology ans species as a matter of gaining technical and strategic knowledge of new races. If the encountered a patrol prior to a colony the objective would be to disable one of the ships and assimilate the crew. While the jemhadar are mostly just grunt soldiers the Borg would quickly learn that they are a cloned species. The Borg would be highly intested in this tech that can grow new drones in days and program loyalty. If a vorta was assimilated even more tactical info is gained like location of cloning facilities. This ability to quickly staff cubes and shipbuilding would rapidly expand the Borg forces. The could return the captured tech to borg space then return in months with a force of 10,000 cubes to rapidly overwelm any force they would encounter. With this new ability to rapidly increase forces without waiting for assimilation of humanoids that take decades to mature slowing force growth. The galaxy would rapidly become Borg dominant.
You give the dominion way too much power. They might have gotten rid of the first cube, but not the other three. At least not completely. They would have been assimilated.
The Borg wouldn’t assimilate the Jem Hadar or the Vorta due to the dependence on the white and the vorta have to short a lifespan as both races are clones.
@@QuestionOfTrekBS, they would easily assimilate both and quickly remove the dependency on the White. Bashir almost had it done by himself, much less the Borg.
Good video and thumbs up for sure! I just don't agree with the conclusion. The start to it is that the Borg are weak in some way to Physical damage and yes we did see it in the movie but this is not a true weakness as they are able to adapt to physical damage. Granted it does take longer for this adaption to spread to the rest of them it is not a Borg end all. Attacks that target the flesh of Borg have been seen to be effective but again not a end all for them. They can adapt over time. Just as the federation was able to adapt to their weapons and counts them the Borg would as well. I think based on the conditions overall that the Borg would win this battle with out to much effort. As the founders produced more troops and equipment the Borg would assimilate it that much faster taking the advantage. The real question is could the founders find a way to counter the assimilation process or not. If no then they lose if yes then they win. Still thumb's up as I don't have to agree with the conclusion to respect the overall quality of the video itself.
You forgot something. Both the Borg and Jem' hadar both use birthing chamber. Jem' Hdar are clones and gave no families. The Borg call Maturation Chamber. If either side co-opted the other soldier producing technology. Replacement soldiers could be quickly replaced. We don't know the length of time Annika Johanson spent from six to adulthood as 7of9 in there. Say few years at least; not months. This could be game changer. Borg grown at decelerated rate. Or Hem'Hdar replacement in days with nanotech and cyborg technology built in.
After an initial contact with the Jem’hadar, the Borg would lose interest in them as they had no interest in the Kazon and just go away because of that lack f interest. Perhaps they might express an interest in the Vorta but I suspect that the borg would not be interest in the vorta As the founders, normally they stay out of conflict and send in their clones. 4 Jem’hadar ships would not damage a cube significantly as the cube is too massive and is capable of destroying fleets of ships (Wolf 359)
the real question here is how much damage the borg take before taking over the Gamma Quadrant becasue if they taker a substantial amount of losses then a swift counter assault by the alpha quadrant alliance would possibly be able to stop them from consolidating their gains. but in the much more likely event the borg are able to repulse such an attack then Starfleet just handed their most deadly enamy all the resources of an entire quadrant, the powerful technolgy of the dominion and the biology of the founders and damned countless innocent slaves subjects of the dominion to assimilation.
The Borg know of the Dominion and the Founders. The Founders would be a tempting target for the borg. I am sure the Nanoprows would be more than a match. The Borg vs the Voth would be more interesting of a match up...
The nids. Actually, I think everything in 40K can beat the borg. Adeptus mechanicus would assimilate them. The Necron would probably just call them primitive amateurs, and not even waste their time lol.
There has to of been a point in the Startrek Universe, that either the Dominion knew about the Borg. So either the Borg had given the Dominion a designation and made extremely brief contact. Or the Dominion had been aware of the Borg and found a way to counter measure the Borg. Or the Borg and Dominion had never had contact.
If the Dominion knew about the federation and was slowly handicapping the federation, they would know about the borg and likewise did the same. But then, wouldn't the Dominion side with the Borg? What is the goal of the founders? To control solids. Who does a better job at controlling solids? The borg. So all a changeling has to do is replace the Borg queen and the Borg is theirs.
@@QuestionOfTrek Seems obvious they were planning on the borg next but then, why bother. They are just competing tyrants at that point. Their strategy with the alpha quadrant was to puppet rule anyway.
The Borg queen for most parts is just tech. We see it multiple times that the fleshy parts are just added to the core queen. Looking like a queen doesnt give you any connection to the borg collective. And integrating borg parts into a founder ( lets just assume thats possible) overrides any chance of activly taking over anything.
HOLD IT‼️ If the Borg could pick up an signal from an "supposably" cloaked ship, then why couldn't the Dominion? Plus not even Romulan ships can stay cloaked for days on end......Plot hole 😂. P.S. you forgot the Vorta do not have very good "long range" eyesight. 😎
They didn’t pick up a signal from a cloaked ship. They picked up a signal from an interplexing beacon which was brought to the gamma quadrant by a cloaked ship.
You lost me at 3 dominion attack ships take out 1 cube because they ram things. Sorry but no one cube has been known to take out armadas of ships and I’m sure the dominion wasn’t the first to try ramming there ships in desperation I’m sure they would have adapted to that tactic.
The borg are actually quite easy to beat. The federation just refuses to what it would take. This author fails to realize this. Genetic adaptations to prevent assimilation, weapons of mass destruction, creation of counter nanos, the dominion would be on high alert and mobilize its entire force to eliminate the unimatrix before it can establish. We know from DS9 that the dominion fleet seen in the war was but a fraction of its forces. The dominion had the forces to out right conquer the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. It would have just been to costly. With the Borg after the first encounter the Dominion would not hesitate to go scorched earth.
You want to talk about a what we see being a small fraction of their forces, the borg are basically the poster boys of that. They control a large portion of the delta quadrant and, in addition to potentially possessing millions of ships of varying sizes, also possess transwarp and time travel capabilities. There is no argument to be made for the Dominion's victory, only for them to make it too costly to be worth it for the Borg. Even that is unlikely, the Borg like bodies to assimilate and that's one thing the Dominion isn't short on.
You over estimate what has been tried against the Borg. Peoples have tried everything you mentioned against the Borg and failed on the large scale. The Federation is only around because the Borg don't care enough to destroy them outright. At most they let them exist to develop more advanced tech.
While it is true 3 jem’hadar fighter did destroy a galaxy class starship, but let’s get real here 1 borg cube has destroyed an excelsior class starship within seconds. And we see the enterprise D get it’s ass kicked like it’s nothing. So yeah 3 fighters would get there ass kicked and borg wouldn’t even break a sweat. Plus ounce the borg adapt to the jem’hadar weapons what hell else do they have ? Ramming the cube ? Oh which wouldn’t destroy the cube in one hit !!! It would take 15-30 fighters ramming the cube. And the borg can send hundreds of cubes !!!
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The biggest advantage of the Dominion against the Borg, is that the 3 species at the top of the Dominion are terrible candidates for assimilation. The Jem'hadar rely on ketracel white to survive, the Vorta have self termination implants that would likely stop the assimilation process cold, and the founders are basically goo without a circulatory system or organs for the Borg nanoprobes to start the assimilation process. For the Borg to gain the intelligence upper hand they would need to focus on assimilating other Dominion subject peoples, and even that would be limiting, because Dominion subjects seem to know little more than fear of the Jem'hadar about the Dominion. I used to think the Borg would easily defeat the Dominion, now I'm not so certain. The Borg would have to attack with numbers they usually wouldn't bring to bear. Great video, thank you.
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I agree with with this but the founders were infected by a virus so the nano probes should be able to affect them also. The question i think would be could they expel them from their bodies before they could do the job which i think is a good possibility.
You are overlooking one of the biggest advantages the Borg have: assimilation. It's more than just turning someone into a drone. They assimilate both life forms and technology, along with any knowledge or data. All it would take is the assimilation of a single Vorta or Jem'Hadar and the entire Collective would know about the ketracel white, the Jem'Hadar dependence on it, and it wouldn't take long to adapt to it. Drones are, remember, more or less self-sustaining in terms of biological needs and only need energy to keep going. It's not beyond what's accepted as canon to say the Borg would find a way for assimilated Jem'Hadar to produce their own ketracel white--or eliminate the need for it entirely.
As for the Founders. . .Section 31 developed a biological weapon that nearly killed them all. Do you think the Borg would have much difficulty developing a way to assimilate them using something similar if they decided to? And it is canon that they were working on way to use a bio-ish weapon against Earth and let's not forget what they were able to do to Species whatsit, 8472? (with help from Janeway, of course).
The Dominion might be able to defeat a single cube. Maybe a few more. Starfleet has, more than once. But hundreds of cubes? Thousands? The Dominion wouldn't stand a chance.
@@fgutz1970 that is an advantage the Borg would never get the chance to utilize. The Vorta can simply kill themselves
The Borg would have little interest in the Vorta and Jem'hadar. IIRC, those races are mostly clones. Assimilate a few samples and you basically learn everything about both races.
The Founders with their unique abilities would be of great interest to the Borg. But the Founders hide away from almost everyone, so the Borg may not consider it worth the trouble of rooting them out.
I always wondered what Starfleet would do if the Borg had crashed the Dominion War looking for Founders to assimilate.
5:41 Only 4 known Vorta? Eris (The Jem’Hadar), Bortas (The Search), Weyoun (For The Cause etc), Kilana (The Ship), Keevan (Rocks and Shoals), Yelgrun (The Magnificent Ferengi), Luaran (Tacking Into The Wind), Gelnon (Honour Among Thieves)… I got 8!
And it's probable that there are thousands if not millions out there.
Especially considering that each jem hadar warship is lead by a vorta
I've got 6 slips on the Borg. Easiest money I'll ever make.
I imagine the Borg would figure out some kind of radiation that destroys the ketracel white. The Jem hedar are a worthless species in the grand scheme.
The Dominion has endured for 2000 years, they'll endure long after your collective consciousness has crumbled into dust.
A Borg cube can carry tens of thousands of drones. While the jem'h'dar certainly would kill many drones in a boarding action, they wouldn't be able to diminish their numbers quickly enough to really weaken the cube due to lack of drones. That being said, the dominion has no problem using ramming attacks when their weapons become ineffective, or even just to prove a point. As far as we have seen, the Borg do not have the ability to adapt to such tactics. The dominion would win several battles, until the Borg either consider them a big enough threat, or unworthy of further attention. If the Borg considered the dominion a real threat, they could send an enormous force of cubes to destroy the Dominion. As vast as the Dominion is and as impressive as their ability to produce ships and warriors is, they do not hold a candle to the population and capabilities of the Borg.
The founders may be immune to assimilation, or they may be susceptible, we'll assume them immune for now. The jem'h'dar however are likely vulnerable, and would be assimilated easily. Their dependency of ketracel white not being a problem for Borg nanoprobes to replicate or compensate for. Borg do not eat, or even breathe, they only need energy for their organic components to be supplied with everything they need to survive. Their strong, durable frames and shrouding ability would make them excellent tactical drones. The vorta are likely not worthy of assimilation, except maybe their energy blast ability that was only shown in a single episode and may have had a technological origin not shown.
The Borg may be especially interested in the Dominion's cloning technology.
As far as we know, Borg drones do not reproduce biologically to produce more drones, they must assimilate other beings into their collective to increase their numbers. If the Borg gain the ability to quickly produce an unlimited number of disposable drones without the need to expend resources on assimilating other species, resistance would truly be futile.
I do cover some of what you say in the video.
One additional note on Vorta strengths & weaknesses. Vorta have excellent hearing but poor eyesight.
I'll bet all my gold-pressed Latinum on the Borg. I shall soon be a very rich man.
You’ll have to watch it to the end
@Tod Kurzbard after all, war is good for business.
I feel like the tagline for this video should be stolen from Alien vs Predator : whoever wins, we lose
Even Q knew the unstoppable power in the universe is the Borg. The Dominion would last a week and the entire gamma quadrant would be forever Borg.
The Borg should assimilate the Founders. Those changlings will be like T1000
That would prove most difficult
@@QuestionOfTreknot really. The Founders nothing special. They are far different from species 8472. The Founders cannot defend themselves.
How would they assimilate an ocean of founders
Great video! I agree, the Borg would be too much for the Dominion. The borg considered their losses to the federation as tactical defeats. The federation ultimately isn’t worth worrying about atm. The dominion pose a much greater threat. They’re aggressive in ways the federation couldn’t accept. I’d rather take my chances with the Borg. They’re not motivated to pursue unless they need to know how to assimilate. The Dominion might not be worth assimilating, but their threat is too real. I’d love to see a Star Trek “what if?” Featuring these two. Thanks for doing this, it was fun!
Edit - Also, I don’t see why the founders could be difficult to assimilate. They’re nanites, and the founders are still physical organisms with actual cells, or cell-like bodies. It wouldn’t take long for the borg to assimilate the founders. Then you end up with borgified founders. That’s a scary proposition!
Thankyou I’m glad Hoi enjoyed the video.
They would assimilate Vorta and learn all they need to know.
Borg vs Dominion, who wins?.
The Cybermen.
The Borg win period.
The Jem'Hadar and Vorta would be assimilated in the first encounter. The dependency on white would be easily removed and the Vorta would not know to kill themselves before capture. After that the rest is just adaptation. The founders are nothing special for the Borg.
The Borg could take out the Federation at any time if they wanted. They have never bothered to make any real move.
The ST galaxy, being divided into four quadrants has a map showing the Gamma and Delta quadrants sitting side by side in what we would call the NW & NE areas. Both empires are supposed to be 10, 000 years old. And in each being so, how has there never been even a single battle between the two? Transwarp tunnels would definitely make it happen and we know that the Borg like to pick fights with tough enemies (the even went into the fluidic space dimension to engage 8472) and yet in the neighboring quadrant no ventures? There’s a story somewhere there worthy of exploring with thousands of years to boot. It’s also worth noting that Janeway engaged the Borg in their home territory, the DS9 folks occasionally ventured into the Gamma Quadrant but by and large the bulk of the Dominion War was in the Alpha Quadrant where they were far away from their territory and required making alliances with the Cardassians and the Breen to aid in getting the job done. We’ve never seen what the Dominion could do defending their own space. For all we know, they could have a bunch of extra tricks up their sleeve like they had against the Obsidian/Tal Shiar alliance attack. Honestly I don’t know who would win, but I would prefer it to be the Dominion simply because I hate and loathe the Borg, especially the original way they were undefeatable in the same way Superman and Darth Vader irritate me to no end. As for VOY making them weak, you could say that PIC did the same thing with the Changeling, making her serve a dying weak Borg Queen. So it’s basically the VOY neutering but in the other direction, so there’s that….
The borg would destroy the dominion in very short order. while the dominion is powerful they are slow to adapt. the only reason they were so powerful against the federation is their tech was so different. this would be an advantage for exactly one encounter with the borg. just one. :-) then it would be all downhill. sure they might have trouble assimilating (but not destroying that would be easy) changelings but changelings are not really that powerful without their subjects. not enough of them.
it would be a brutal nasty very short war.
I believe I made that point in the video as the Borg began taking over Dominion territory. But it is my firm belief that if the Dominion were to fall the channelings would do everything to ensure the Borg would go down with them. At least as many of them as possible.
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@@QuestionOfTrek sure but they are impotent. they can't DO anything to make the borg fall with them. the changelings really have no power. they can't actually DO anything except subterfuge and stealth and internal tactics (which would not work on the borg) there is not ENOUGH of them.
And those cloaked mines would not harm borg ships. so the dominion would throw themselves against a wall of mines that would not harm the borg. they would just die.
I think this is why they had to tone down the borg. just too OP.
The Dominion is slow to adapt using traditional technology. They are extremely quick to adapt using bio technology. The Dominion would engineer a retrovirus that destroys drones and have two more ready to go when the Borg eventually adapted to the first one.
@@QuestionOfTrekthe Dominion would fall before the changelings even found out about the Borg arriving. Because of the nature of the gamma quadrant Jem'Hadar and Vorta, all encounters with the Borg would end with no survivors.
You’d think the blight would be the ultimate bio-weapon against the borg. It has the sensitivity to energy fields that accelerates it
It's pretty obvious to me that the Borg would win a straight fight based on the Dominion we saw in DS9 and the Borg we saw in TNG and First Contact (maybe the Dominion could take the cucked Borg we got in the last two seasons of Voyager but that is another discussion). A single Cube almost wiped out earth and decapitated the entire federation not once but twice. Keep in mind that the Collective has thousands if not millions of cubes at their disposal. A well-armed Dominion attack force can be legitimately challenged by a fleet of federation ships, a single cube suffered nothing but superficial damage against what was surely a massive fleet in First Contact and probably could have kept going and wiped the entire federation out if it wasn't for inside information that Picard brought to the fight.
I am not saying that there aren't some long-shot scenarios where the Dominion could turn the tables, just that in a straight fight the Borg would win hands-down. One obscure plot twist where I could see the Dominion potentially gaining the upper hand is with the Founders and just how similar their cellular structure is to a species like 8472. It is unclear if the Borg could assimilate a Changeling as we know that the Borg have difficulty assimilating certain exotic cellular structures. If the Borg would encounter the same difficulty with Founders as they would with 8472 (and that is a big "if") then the question is whether or not the Dominion would be able/willing to incorporate that cellular structure into Dominion weaponry and create biological weaponry that could be as effective against the Borg as 8472's bioships were. A lot of speculation here though, the Jem'hadar and Vorta certainly wouldn't even be willing to entertain using divine Founder tissue in such a disrespectful manner, but maybe they would if the Founders made the order. Given how much of a long-shot this is, I would still say the odds favor the Borg big time, especially if the Borg got serious about the fight and sent an entire fleet instead of a single cube.
You would have to have the Jem'Hadar Alphas. The Gammas are incapable of adapting nearly fast enough.
My money is on the Borg.
I completely agree with this video the Borg would freaking dominate the dominion it wouldn’t even be close as the dominion fleets would essentially be little more than food for the borg and the occasional stop gap at best and the founders have nothing they can do to the borg as their ability to assimilate and adapt would quickly conquer any technology or biological weapons and a majority of the biological ‘advantages’ that the founders have would be rendered moot by the sheer numbers of the borg and the collective mind which essentially eliminates any possible individual subterfuge it would be so one sided that it’s ridiculous
The federation which doesn’t stand a very good chance against the borg still stands a better chance than the dominion does
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Depend on which version of the borg your talking about. If it's the same borg that got defeated on the daily by Janeway then it's the dominion, without a doubt.
If its the unstoppable all coming force they were made out to be at their debut? borg, no problem.
And it just kind of flip flops as the writers add nerfs or buffs throughout their history.
I used a bit of both versions for this video.
not entirely a fair comparison since Voyager and Janeway had plot armor
Neither Janeway nor the Federation have ever had the Borg put forth a serious effort to take them out. Just the usual low effort of the Collective. Even when the Borg had went after Earth directly they never have put forth a serious effort. The Borg could streamroll them at will. Even the Dominion would be even easier for the Borg.
@LainK1978 That just proof that you can't assimilate the professional grind set with nanoprobes alone 🫡
No, the Sisko would convince The Prophets to “disappear” all the Dominion and Borg ships while in the wormhole! Score one for the wormhole aliens!
Unfortunately Sisko was not involved in this scenario 😂😂
eveb though that would happen, the borg do not need the wormhole to get to the alpha quadrent, thats what their transwarp ability, liek in voyager when they arived in the alpha quadrent formt he Gamma
@@aerialballet1990 they don’t need it that is true but they were in pursuit of the dominion fleet.
I'm pretty sure that the Defiant would drop the beacon into the Gamma quadrant, and Sisko would campaign to be the captain of this mission.
Vorta that we know of:
1. The one who does the psychokenisis, in the first episode with them in it.
2. Weyoun
3. The one in The Ship
4. There's one more that is dying in an episode.
5. Iggy Pop
I'm sure there are more than that which we see on screen, there are several mentioned that we don't see, so there are more that 4.
Do you do ANY research?
Transwarp Network Gateway - massive fleets from the Unicomplex go immediately into the Gamma Quadrant. They don't need a wormhole or anything. And also probably a cube sent back through time to assimilate the Founders and Jem Hadar while weak.
Also, a Borg Queen doesn't "go" anywhere. There is only one Borg Queen at any time.
Yes, and also the Borg's tactical cube is impervious to ramming ships, even at warp speed. They also use personal shielding and can phase, making hand to hand combat impossible with them. The Dominion would be a very, very weak adversary for them.
Well you get a few Borg cubes full of clones.
Till the Jem H’dar would be assimilated and then the changelings, the Borg command more ships and troops and would develop a weapon to naturalise the changelings, the “Houdini’s” would be picked up by bork drones sensors and the Dominion would fall. It would be game over for the Dominion and the changelings. Starfleet even managed to infect them with a virus and then manipulate their genome. So it would be a complete Borg win.
One bee sting will annoy you but a thousand will kill you. The same goes for the Borg.
Nice choice on the Battlestar drums!
I have wondered about this match up.
I wasn’t the first to come up with it but it was a lot of fun making it.
That was quite interesting, I guess there's very little the Dominion could do to win against the hive.
Well they would definitely give the Borg a run for their money.
It would be a stalemate. They are each 'the boss' for their side of the trek.
i dont think it would, considering the size of the Borg, if the Borg truely wanted to assamalate or take out the Dominion they would send a few thousand Borg ships of various sizes.
@@aerialballet1990 Why haven't they done this to the Federation?
I believe the word you're looking for to describe the Dominion is hegemony. It's effectively a collection of vassal states that owe fealty and tribute to the Founders or else.
No the term "hegemony" implies dominance through soft power and a more passive form of military intimidation, more like the US or the old British Empire.
Hegemony is a bit more subtle; the Dominion were more of a proper empire.
@@mbaxter22not sure how you get the Dominion as being an empire. The vast majority of people didn't even know who the founders were just that they were.
The borg win this. The Founders can’t fake being a Borg due to them not being in the collective. Without that they are just another empire to fall when the Borg adapt to their tech
3 attack ships take out a Cube
No way
13 might be possible but very unlikely
30 possible still doubtful
Attack ships just don't have the necessary firepower.
this 3 jem fighters would not stand a change against a cube. not even remotely. and agreed even 30 of them would be a long shot.
@@nerys71 Yeah I disagree with that concept as well. The Jem got lucky against the Fed during their first encounter. Look at the Battle of Wolf 359, where ONE Cube took down 39 Fed ships of various classes. A Borg Cube pretty much ignores shields and the Dominion wouldn't know the trick of changing shield frequency to defend against their beams and transporters (because, in addition to ship weapons, the Borg would be beaming in Drones to takeover ship systems and assimilate the crew). 3 Jem Fighters would be eaten up pretty quick by a Cube. Maybe QuestionOfTrek was thinking 3 Jem'Hadar Battlecruisers rather than the Fighters?
true, but the federation were using mostly older class ships, doesnt help when you have miranda, excelsior and constitutions in the fleet. only a battle section foa galaxy class and maybe 1 or 2 ambassador and nebula classes were involved.
@@VladamireDeven with Jem'Hadar battle Cruisers it wouldn't happen.
If it was an all out assault the Borg would win no contest, it was mentioned in Voyager that there are millions of Borg ships of varying sizes. Whereas the Dominion fleet while still outnumbering all the Alpha Quadrant races is in the tens of thousands (although in a wartime footing can build attack ships very quickly) lets say 50,000 fighters in total. However the Borg would only send what they would deem efficient to conquer the Dominion, maybe a hundred cubes. The Borg have also shown a limit to their ability to adapt and regenerate while in withering combat, their cubes appear to be weak to sustained waves of highly maneuverable attack ships, which the Dominion excel at. Dominion Polaron torpedoes would probably by more effective than Federation phasers and photons. The Borg would not emerge unscathed, however in the end Resistance might be futile. One possibility also is the Alpha Quadrant might come to the aid of the Dominion to prevent some of the Founders technology being assimilated.
I was thinking the dominion would win 1 change ling could kill the queen take her place and order the other borg ships to attack each other
Oooooh I do like that.
Yes, maybe one could kill the Queen but not take her place in the sense of leading the collective. They’d only be able to imitate the queens physical likeness, not her technologically networked connection to the hive.
How can the changeling take the place of the Queen? They may be able to look like her, but when she gives orders she doesn't need to speak. She is, as she told Picard, in many places at the same time. The changeling isn't able to do that. Unless they get assimilated in which case it kinda negates the whole theory.
@@corbin_4738 well considering Odo can create the commbadge as his whole uniform is part of his body it wouldn’t be impossible.
How about the Sphere-builders vs the Borg vs the Dominion vs Species 8472?
The Iconians would devistate them all I think.😂😂
Yay, Conti has a new video!
Eager for part 2..!
Ooops..ROUND-2 was part of the same show...
--Also.. awesome choice in musical scores.
They explored this idea in the 1st Star Trek armada game the borg it wasn't cannon I think but It made sense the dominion wasn't ready for the borg as you really had to know exactly how to beat them like ex borg did such as Picard. The borg often used the ships of there victims technology against them and if the doimion lost enough of Ketracel-white production quickly it could be a landslide victory for the borg which is easily possible.
It all depends, keep in mind the founders were also master strategists who were usuall a few steps ahead of their adversaries.
We should also not forget the borg did have as use time travel technology against the federation in 1st contact so it definitely would use that if needed ots hard to say what the founders could do in response with out full knowledge of the same technology with there hierarchies limiting the same type of response the federation had and knowledge from picard it might lead to the whole area being take using that technology.
The 2 greatest villains in Star Trek...
In truth, i strongly suspect that they would both be quite happy leaving the other alone... Both have extremely powerful militarys...
Fantastic video, keep it up 👍🏻
Thankyou 🖖🖖
Nicely done!
Great video. Just a thought, why didn't a Starfleet captain just suggest replicating the plot armor all on-screen Starships have and passing that out to the fleet to defeat both enemies at the same time?
I suppose the Vorta's immunity to a wide variety of poisons and toxins isn't exactly relevant to a Borg invasion.
It could make them more resistant to Borg nanoprobes.
@@QuestionOfTrek maybe the Founders used that to make some commando Vorta to conduct cube infiltration missions.
@@QuestionOfTrekNo, it would not help at all. The Borg nanoprobes would not be stopped at all. Immunity to poisons and toxins is completely different.
Great video!
Thankyou, I Hope you enjoyed it,
Thing is, it may have already happened. We just don't know about it.
Everyone keeps asking the unstoppable force question, but I’m pretty sure the kinetic energy is transferred into heat, so it would melt the unmovable object.
Well I would expect that they would annihilate one another.
One war I would like to see, The Dominion, in their full force, against the Galactic Empire, under Palpatine, at their peak.
Likin this one!
Hoping to see a bit more later on!
STRONK Nerd Energy here!
Whichever side won would then be much too powerful with the combined knowledge from both, and as such would totally obliterate Starfleet after some recuperation.
Scenario 2 : Borg vs Dominion + Imperial Empire of Star Wars under Palpatine about 15 years before Battle of Endor.
The Borg still win.
As has been shown, the borg would adapt to the mine field. This would end up placing the borg in federation space. The borg would of learnt of the regeneration cycle weakness of the dominions changeling leaders, and sadly eradicated them. Though as the borg are experts at adapting, I do think the nanites would of been adapted to assimilate the changelings. thus leading to a new form of borg reminiscent of the second terminator, or lesser third form. Liquid borg....considering how many shapeshifting aliens there are in the series it is only a matter of time. However, as the borg have been shown with a weakness to projectile based weapons, physical weapons would be effective against them.
The Minefield was pointless to begin with for the board. It was only there to keep the Dominion from escaping. And even that is laughable.
I think the dominion would be willing to use the attack fighterd to ram the cubes, or the strike cruisers, i think 1 would take out a cube. The dominion could replace their lost ships and jem hadar without too much trouble. I think a better question to ask is, would the dominion try and capture a cube? 100,000 of those methed up, sword wielding addicts would cause problems for drones if they were beamed onto a cube, i think they would initiate a self destruct rathrr than lose a cube.
However the Borg have shown the ability to block transporters in tng if they choose to
The Borg Cubes dwarf them and would not be taken out by them.
There are easily more than 100,000 drones on each Cube.
I disagree as how would the dominion cope with 100 borg cubes and obviously the borg would associate the voltage and the Jem Hadar. If a Starfleet Armad of 39 ships couldn't defeat a single cube I don't think a dominion fleet would win.
I mean the only treason the borg cube was destroyed in First Contact was because Picard knew precisely where to fire to destroy it as he was still connected and could hear the borg.
And how many cubes did Voyager defeat. Keep in mind after WOLF 359 a whole new line of ships were created in defeating the Borg like The Sovereign, The Akira, The Prometheus, the Intrepid And the Defiant class ships which were still vulnerable to the Dominion.
The Borg could create nanites to counter shapeshifters.
Excellent work.
The Borg adapt the Dominion would not be to respond
Well I did mention that later on in the video hence the Jem Hadar resorting to bladed weapons and suicide runs.
@@QuestionOfTrekBladed weapons would not work any better and their suicide runs would be pointless.
I was thinking about this and the changelings/founders would be the difference. Can the Borg even assimilate them? If not, they could enter Borg Cubes at will and sabotage them.
I was also wondering if a Founder could be assimilated and what effects would each gain or suffer.
Both would likely suffer insanity, due from each others alien hive mind processes (unexpected).
The Borg couldn't give them the 'ol chop off an arm and weld a wifi router to the head, but the Borg's opening gambit for a race they want to assimilate is a heaping injection tube full of nanites to prepare the target. I see no reason why The Collective couldn't figure out a way to use them to assimilate a Changeling at a cellular level, even if they couldn't give one the chopshop special afterward. They could even load up an assimilated Changeling with modified nanites to infect all the Changelings in The Great Link.
of course they can, nanoprobes are tiny, the size of a human red blood cell.
@@nextlevelenglish5858 are you sure? I could see it going either way? Founders are very resilient and can do a lot of things with their body. They were even able to turn into mists (something that wouldn't even have a form that nanoprobes could assimilate). I could see a Founder crushing all the nanoprobes as soon as it goes into their body. Founders, at first glance, seem to be more resilient than even Species 8472.
@@volbound1700 the nanoprobes are so small, the size of a red blood cell, there is NO way a founder could remove them without a surgical procedure
One possibility is that the Dominion allies with the Alpha Quadrant/Federation to neutralize/defeat the borg
The dominion would get a few blows in round 1, then round two they’d just get curb stomped by a bunch of coked up borg.
😂😂 coked up Borg. I love it.🖖🖖
Just sayin. Don’t let them get a hold of that white lol.
Wouldn’t the Borg adapt to Dominion weapons over time?
I did. point that out in the video that’s why the Jem Hadar would use their bladed weapons which we know Borg drones are susceptible. Also the ships would start making suicide runs.
@@QuestionOfTrek I meant the Borg Cubes.
@@starbugmechanic5236 In the video it was shown that the Dominion ships make suicide runs into the cube as they did to the USS Odyssey in the DS9 episode”Jem Hadar”
@@QuestionOfTrek suicide runs would have no effect on the borg. In the pilot we can see an Excelsior ship flying towards the cube at Wolf 359 and nothing happens.
@@nextlevelenglish5858 The excelsior wasn’t on a suicide run but rather an attack fly by which was halted by a tractor beam. Given the smaller size and sheer number of the Jem Hadar fighters the Borg wouldn’t be able to stop them all.
You should really consider fleshing this out into a novel and/or screenplay.
Unfortunately I have to be careful. I don’t own the I.P. So how I present fanfic is restricted to the rules laid out by CBS from 2017.
@@QuestionOfTrek I doubt that all of the existing novelists own the I.P. either, I believe when they submit their novels to a publisher that the publishers acquire a license. You ought to look into it... at the very least.
@@jamesdietz29 I don’t know how that works to be honest. I could look into it. I always assumed the IP holders commission the writers to produce more merch for the existing franchise.
@@QuestionOfTrek Screenplays may be commissioned, but I think novels are licensed after they are written prior to publishing. If you pursue this, I wish you success!
@@jamesdietz29 Thankyou I’ll give it some thought and research. 🖖🖖
The Borg vs Star Gate's Replicators who would win a war and adapt faster? I put my money on Replicators because the Borg would become an all you can eat buffet.
The Replictors would take over the Borg because they would. Be the perfection that the Borg seek.
Hello, could you do a versus video of The Jem'Hadar against the Super Soldiers of TNG Season 3 Eps.11 "The Hunted".
At some point yes, I’m working on a number of projects but yes I will make this video. 🖖🖖🖖
@@QuestionOfTrek Thank You, it should get a lot of views (:
I hope so.
Once you accept that 3 Jem fighters = 1 Borg cube, it becomes a question of "Can the Borg produce cubes faster than the Dominion builds fighters?". Doubt that. How do you address the kamikaze approach?
Simple. The Borg would adapt. I can easily envision a Borg Cube easily vaporizing the fighters.
a borg cube would not have much trouble with even 30 jem hadar fighters. remember even against federation tech the jem hardar weapons were effective but not obscenely powerful in comparison. borg weapons are obscenely powerful in comparison. there is no way crashing a jem fighter into a borg ship would destroy 75% of it. entire STARSHIPS crashed into borg cubes doing basically nothing.
@@nerys71 I tend to agree! Not only that, but when the Enterprise first encounter a Borg cube in System J-25, the Borg adapted very quickly to both the phasers and photon torpedoes to the point that everything Picard threw at them did nothing at all. I suspect the Borg would adapt quickly to the various Dominion energy weapons.
Nothing. The "kamikaze" would do absolutely nothing. In the battle of Wolf 359 we see an excelsior ship fly into a borg cube (implied, at the beginning of the pilot of DS9) and NOTHING happens. So the little jem hadar ships would explode within the Borg electomagnetic field and the cube would remain intact.
One cube against the dominion fleet dominion there ships are Tiffany they got the jem Hadar supersoldiers on steroids so even when the Borg adapt jem Hadar are good at Kombat
Keep watching until the end.
I'm going to post two comments this the first comment without viewing the video . I will do a second comment after the video . The tech tree that the dominion have is extremely esoteric in nature and the Dominion forces won't stop killing a Borg cube until it is gone like Picard did during his initial encounter with the borg . Still Borg adaptation will occur sooner or later to Dominion weapons . So if it is a small Borg incursion then the dominion if in "character" would stomp a small force of one and maybe even two Borg cubes . Beyond two cubes the Borg adaptation comes online and it becomes a brutal slugfest. Dominion ships are both sheilded and armored very well . The Gem Haddar would be difficult to assimilate because of their physical prowess and their dependency on ketracell white . The dominion and the Gem Haddar are the perfect rivals to the Borg . Having said that a large enough Borg presence would eventually overwhelm the dominion and the Gem Haddar like any other species . There would be catastrophic casualties on both sides but no side would care about their own casualties in this or any other fight . Great match up .
Thank you for not referring to me a A Good Trinary.
Interesting, but it is based on the idea that it would be a slugfest between the 2. The Borg assimilate new technology ans species as a matter of gaining technical and strategic knowledge of new races. If the encountered a patrol prior to a colony the objective would be to disable one of the ships and assimilate the crew. While the jemhadar are mostly just grunt soldiers the Borg would quickly learn that they are a cloned species. The Borg would be highly intested in this tech that can grow new drones in days and program loyalty. If a vorta was assimilated even more tactical info is gained like location of cloning facilities. This ability to quickly staff cubes and shipbuilding would rapidly expand the Borg forces. The could return the captured tech to borg space then return in months with a force of 10,000 cubes to rapidly overwelm any force they would encounter. With this new ability to rapidly increase forces without waiting for assimilation of humanoids that take decades to mature slowing force growth.
The galaxy would rapidly become Borg dominant.
They should have showed a borg threat on the demenian because their tec would have be helpful agains the alpha quadrant
The Quickening and the Blight are the same thing, homie. Quickening is the last stage of the Blight
The Jem Hadarr, star treks cheap knock off of the glorious Sontaran empire.
Deleeeeete..!!!!😂😂🖖🖖
What's the music?
Honestly I don’t remember 😂😂
did you just use an Imovie stock intro for your video?
You give the dominion way too much power. They might have gotten rid of the first cube, but not the other three. At least not completely. They would have been assimilated.
The Borg wouldn’t assimilate the Jem Hadar or the Vorta due to the dependence on the white and the vorta have to short a lifespan as both races are clones.
@@QuestionOfTrekBS, they would easily assimilate both and quickly remove the dependency on the White. Bashir almost had it done by himself, much less the Borg.
Good video and thumbs up for sure! I just don't agree with the conclusion. The start to it is that the Borg are weak in some way to Physical damage and yes we did see it in the movie but this is not a true weakness as they are able to adapt to physical damage. Granted it does take longer for this adaption to spread to the rest of them it is not a Borg end all. Attacks that target the flesh of Borg have been seen to be effective but again not a end all for them. They can adapt over time. Just as the federation was able to adapt to their weapons and counts them the Borg would as well. I think based on the conditions overall that the Borg would win this battle with out to much effort. As the founders produced more troops and equipment the Borg would assimilate it that much faster taking the advantage. The real question is could the founders find a way to counter the assimilation process or not. If no then they lose if yes then they win. Still thumb's up as I don't have to agree with the conclusion to respect the overall quality of the video itself.
You forgot something. Both the Borg and Jem' hadar both use birthing chamber. Jem' Hdar are clones and gave no families. The Borg call Maturation Chamber. If either side co-opted the other soldier producing technology. Replacement soldiers could be quickly replaced. We don't know the length of time Annika Johanson spent from six to adulthood as 7of9 in there. Say few years at least; not months. This could be game changer. Borg grown at decelerated rate. Or Hem'Hdar replacement in days with nanotech and cyborg technology built in.
After an initial contact with the Jem’hadar, the Borg would lose interest in them as they had no interest in the Kazon and just go away because of that lack f interest.
Perhaps they might express an interest in the Vorta but I suspect that the borg would not be interest in the vorta
As the founders, normally they stay out of conflict and send in their clones.
4 Jem’hadar ships would not damage a cube significantly as the cube is too massive and is capable of destroying fleets of ships (Wolf 359)
Nice :)
Thanks
the real question here is how much damage the borg take before taking over the Gamma Quadrant becasue if they taker a substantial amount of losses then a swift counter assault by the alpha quadrant alliance would possibly be able to stop them from consolidating their gains. but in the much more likely event the borg are able to repulse such an attack then Starfleet just handed their most deadly enamy all the resources of an entire quadrant, the powerful technolgy of the dominion and the biology of the founders and damned countless innocent slaves subjects of the dominion to assimilation.
There are many worlds in the Gamma Quadrant that can be assimilated to replace their diminished ranks
The Borg would assimilate far more than they would lose.
The Borg know of the Dominion and the Founders. The Founders would be a tempting target for the borg. I am sure the Nanoprows would be more than a match. The Borg vs the Voth would be more interesting of a match up...
makes me wonder who would win: the borg from star trek or the tyranids from warhammer 40.000 :p
The nids. Actually, I think everything in 40K can beat the borg. Adeptus mechanicus would assimilate them. The Necron would probably just call them primitive amateurs, and not even waste their time lol.
There has to of been a point in the Startrek Universe, that either the Dominion knew about the Borg. So either the Borg had given the Dominion a designation and made extremely brief contact. Or the Dominion had been aware of the Borg and found a way to counter measure the Borg. Or the Borg and Dominion had never had contact.
Well there was never anything mentioned in the books or on the show that the two forces ever met.
You cannot reason with a force of nature...the borg is a storm to be weathered not an adversary to subdue.
I'm just gonna say this once... SECTION 31 DID NOTHING WRONG
What they do is always for the greater good.
If the Dominion knew about the federation and was slowly handicapping the federation, they would know about the borg and likewise did the same.
But then, wouldn't the Dominion side with the Borg? What is the goal of the founders? To control solids. Who does a better job at controlling solids? The borg. So all a changeling has to do is replace the Borg queen and the Borg is theirs.
I see your point but neither like to share power. That was their down fall in the end.
@@QuestionOfTrek Seems obvious they were planning on the borg next but then, why bother. They are just competing tyrants at that point. Their strategy with the alpha quadrant was to puppet rule anyway.
The Borg queen for most parts is just tech. We see it multiple times that the fleshy parts are just added to the core queen. Looking like a queen doesnt give you any connection to the borg collective. And integrating borg parts into a founder ( lets just assume thats possible) overrides any chance of activly taking over anything.
Better the founder and The Borg fighting against each other than work togather to destroy the United Federation of Planets........(Picard S3)
Yeah that was not a great plot.
HOLD IT‼️ If the Borg could pick up an signal from an "supposably" cloaked ship, then why couldn't the Dominion? Plus not even Romulan ships can stay cloaked for days on end......Plot hole 😂. P.S. you forgot the Vorta do not have very good "long range" eyesight. 😎
They didn’t pick up a signal from a cloaked ship. They picked up a signal from an interplexing beacon which was brought to the gamma quadrant by a cloaked ship.
It's not known only as 'The White' though, is it?
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Thankyou
Correction its not billions of borg.. its trillions
Almost 😂
You lost me at 3 dominion attack ships take out 1 cube because they ram things. Sorry but no one cube has been known to take out armadas of ships and I’m sure the dominion wasn’t the first to try ramming there ships in desperation I’m sure they would have adapted to that tactic.
The Borg win. Next.
Borg all day long no contest
The borg are actually quite easy to beat. The federation just refuses to what it would take. This author fails to realize this. Genetic adaptations to prevent assimilation, weapons of mass destruction, creation of counter nanos, the dominion would be on high alert and mobilize its entire force to eliminate the unimatrix before it can establish. We know from DS9 that the dominion fleet seen in the war was but a fraction of its forces. The dominion had the forces to out right conquer the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. It would have just been to costly. With the Borg after the first encounter the Dominion would not hesitate to go scorched earth.
You want to talk about a what we see being a small fraction of their forces, the borg are basically the poster boys of that. They control a large portion of the delta quadrant and, in addition to potentially possessing millions of ships of varying sizes, also possess transwarp and time travel capabilities. There is no argument to be made for the Dominion's victory, only for them to make it too costly to be worth it for the Borg. Even that is unlikely, the Borg like bodies to assimilate and that's one thing the Dominion isn't short on.
You over estimate what has been tried against the Borg. Peoples have tried everything you mentioned against the Borg and failed on the large scale. The Federation is only around because the Borg don't care enough to destroy them outright. At most they let them exist to develop more advanced tech.
To be honest it's more like two unstoppable forces colliding then there being an immovable object. :P
While it is true 3 jem’hadar fighter did destroy a galaxy class starship, but let’s get real here 1 borg cube has destroyed an excelsior class starship within seconds. And we see the enterprise D get it’s ass kicked like it’s nothing. So yeah 3 fighters would get there ass kicked and borg wouldn’t even break a sweat.
Plus ounce the borg adapt to the jem’hadar weapons what hell else do they have ?
Ramming the cube ?
Oh which wouldn’t destroy the cube in one hit !!! It would take 15-30 fighters ramming the cube.
And the borg can send hundreds of cubes !!!
Watch to the end of the video
Music is too loud
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!!
Not always, but often
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