This story gets even more comical if you consider that the only reason the bass trombone evolved to even have a second valve was because Bartok wrote this glissando.
@@mccabecompositions The plot thickens! Initially, two-valve bass trombones featured the F valve, and a dependent second valve in flat E. This extended the horn just enough to play the Bartok glissando, which is why this pitch was chosen. From there, a skilled player can theoretically execute a B to F gliss by releasing the valve during the gliss slowly to get the half valve smoothing gliss effect. This became less doable as the second valve evolved to be more useful as a whole, and B moved away from the very end of the slide.
@@sinatrabone no, you’d need an older model where the second valve is in flat E for this trick Since its inception in the sixties, the second valve of the single rotor bass took on different tunings, like Eb, and D.
I saw Graeme Mutchler play this with the Utah symphony a few years ago. They rented that Bartok trombone for the weekend. They even had him bring it out and give the audience a demonstration on it before they started the piece (presumably to get a bit more value for their money! Haha). Graeme is an absolutely fantastic musician, btw. If you ever get the opportunity to hear him in recital, take it!
ive only had to go up to g (-2 position) in a song before, but one time i got high as fuck (on weed, not the note) and accidentally started hitting notes higher than my flute player friend could
@@jeffmousebeans5055no you can't because you can't gliss that interval. It's not the notes individually that are the problem, it's the fact that the slide isn't long enough to play it normally.
No lie, I played this piece in college, and used a Bass Sackbut! The hilarious part was how "fatter" the second trombonist sounded when he did his, lol.
Huh, my history was waaaay off on this. I thought Bartók originally wrote this as a tuba glissando, but no one could do it, so they invented a special bass trombone just to do it. I learned something new today!
Doug Yeo actually was playing his custom Yamaha made F bass trombone in the video shown of him. Its the only one they ever made and they did it just for him to use for this.
Just for testing a theory I somehow managed that glissando using a cloned superbone. As valves 1&3 together is equivalent to an F-trigger, slide 6th position gives the "C". (7th being unavailable) So with all valves 123 and the 6th position I can reach the "B". I just gliss upwards while gradually releasing valve 2 to reach the "F". Not sure if this approach is acceptable to the trombone community though.
Trombone is a magical instrument. When the air raid siren sounds, I tell my wife: our neighbor is teaching a trombone lesson. And my wife immediately calms down. Hi from Ukraine!
@@AndreyRubtsovRU I agree in an orchestral setting not so much but my personal experience is outside of that realm. I can understand why the tuba doesn’t get as much respect as other instruments
@@samuelzackrisson8865 Thats what I thought was the problem at first as well, but as far as I can tell and based on my own experiences it would still be a problem even if the instrument is in f directly, slide positions get weird playing that low even without using one of the triggers
@@jackkuni3137 The slide on the Bartok trombone is double-wrapped, making the slide positions 1/2 as long. And the slide on the bass sackbut has a handle to make 7th position possible.
Its so funny to see this Video, because we are playing and practicing this piece right now and our Trombonist is using method one. Our first rehearsal was very funny, because our Conductor, a trombonist himself, brings his Bass Trombone every time they played the piece and never saw that solution before😂
At Symphony Hall in Boston they have Kauko Kahila's two-valve bass trombone in a glass case with a printed version of the story about how this Bartók gliss led to its innovation / development.
I think you can also fake a bit of it with your embouchure, but it won’t sound as good. I’ve used t this technique to play stuff that technically requires a trigger on trombones without a trigger. You can also play B naturals with a single trigger so it’s a useful technique to know even if you have a trigger.
I managed to squeak bass trombone notes out of a regular trombone with the F attachment by just using my bottom lip, it pissed off my music teacher that I could do it but it worked and thats how I was 3rd trombone for 6 years
"The 12,337.16 trombone!" Tubas, percussion, flutes, string players, etc.: "That's a steal!" I do really appreciate that the reasonable top end for (tenor) trombones tops out around 6 grand.
@@q12aw50 You'd think so, and some of them can be, but the really high end stuff is stupid expensive, because they're literally made out of stuff like Silver, or Gold.
is that winfred felton in the bassoon section? tell him dean from undergrad in denver says hey! sweet video, that tuning slide assist to get the Bb in 6th position was genius
Genuine Skill issue, when i was in highschool band i had a dream to play bass trombone but was too poor so i would just pitch down with my lips while in 6th position on my pea shooter. The skill issue part was a joke but the note bending wasn't, i got pretty good at, and even tho on its own it sounded like ass i would play some parts down an octave with the ensemble by doing this. my grandparents finally bought me a single trigger bass trombone my softmore year tho.
am I the only one mesmerized by the "value" of instruments in the frame while pondering the choice of a Clear Kellyberg tuba mouthpiece? LOL ( nothing against them, I use one for a teaching tool, but.....)
It's totally playable with a fifth valve, as many instruments today have, and also totally possible with a compensating valve set as the British use (though compensating valves tend to make instruments sound stuffy). It is also sometimes possible to use false tones on 3 and 4 valve instruments. A single valve bass trombone has the same problem, but slightly less severe. Trigger + 7th position is equivalent to 1-2-3-4 (with a tuning slide pulled) on tuba. This is why bass trombones have a 2nd trigger. This gliss is still not quite possible with that valve setup, though, because you'd need to instantly move the slide out like four positions when disengaging the Gb valve, since that valve needs to be engaged tor B and disengaged for F.
Hey Trombone Timo! Just curious on what model of trombone you use because I am interested in looking to buy one for myself. Do you know where I could go to find one? Thanks!
Hey in numb chuks o evil tree o evil tree there’s a Seneca where the chuks fungus playing the cilenders and Dillard playing the trumpet plz go check if is not Andrew crowtly
The easiest and the most cost effective way is to cheat by starting the glissando a semitone higher. Very few people will notice, including some conductors.
This story gets even more comical if you consider that the only reason the bass trombone evolved to even have a second valve was because Bartok wrote this glissando.
Even the modern 2 valve Vass trombones can't play it smoothly without the tuning slide trick
@@mccabecompositions The plot thickens!
Initially, two-valve bass trombones featured the F valve, and a dependent second valve in flat E. This extended the horn just enough to play the Bartok glissando, which is why this pitch was chosen.
From there, a skilled player can theoretically execute a B to F gliss by releasing the valve during the gliss slowly to get the half valve smoothing gliss effect.
This became less doable as the second valve evolved to be more useful as a whole, and B moved away from the very end of the slide.
So would a dependent, double valve bass still be able to do this?
@@sinatrabone no, you’d need an older model where the second valve is in flat E for this trick
Since its inception in the sixties, the second valve of the single rotor bass took on different tunings, like Eb, and D.
It’s even funnier because it’s just a loud fart sound 😂
Bartok setting the trombone industry for life with just two notes (or one sliding tone, whichever way you slice it)
An uncountable number of tones in a range
"Or how I learned to stop caring and make millions off of trombones"
I don't wanna slice it I wanna slide it.
One small passage in a piece, one giant profit for the trombone industry!
I saw Graeme Mutchler play this with the Utah symphony a few years ago. They rented that Bartok trombone for the weekend. They even had him bring it out and give the audience a demonstration on it before they started the piece (presumably to get a bit more value for their money! Haha).
Graeme is an absolutely fantastic musician, btw. If you ever get the opportunity to hear him in recital, take it!
Hello, this costs $12k and only has one use near the end of the show. Enjoy the performance folks!
Interesting, because that tiny little clip of Mutchler at 1:00 is in the lobby of the Utah Symphony’s very own Abravanel Hall by coincidence.
The ultimate way to show your big trombone $$$. Alsothe other day I hit my first double C and I'm very proud😊
You’re getting there
Double C was upwards right? Not entierly familiar with english terms on that front. If so, i can only hit single(?) Eb on my Tuba, so wow
high or low?
@@shadowflarehd2376 high
ive only had to go up to g (-2 position) in a song before, but one time i got high as fuck (on weed, not the note) and accidentally started hitting notes higher than my flute player friend could
Bartok wrote a two-note joke that literally changed trombone history
its hilarious cuz you can play it easily with a regular Bb/F Orchestral Tenor Trombone
@@jeffmousebeans5055no you can't because you can't gliss that interval. It's not the notes individually that are the problem, it's the fact that the slide isn't long enough to play it normally.
@@gunnarkilborn3915 bro i have a Bb/F tenor trombone and i can do it easily. If you want i can make a video of me doing it
@@jeffmousebeans5055 "you can play it easily with a regular Bb/F Orchestral Tenor Trombone" -- this is incorrect
@@jebbishop3 it literally is. do you want me to post a video of me doing it? cuz i can, and its not hard at all
damn, i cant imagine having a tuning slide that moved that easily
Lol
I was thinking that, too. How much grease is on that thing?
Hetman Light Slide Gel is pretty easy to move
@@counterfit5 no i know, i was making a joke about public school instruments lmao
if you have a good quality horn it'll move easily
No lie, I played this piece in college, and used a Bass Sackbut! The hilarious part was how "fatter" the second trombonist sounded when he did his, lol.
Huh, my history was waaaay off on this. I thought Bartók originally wrote this as a tuba glissando, but no one could do it, so they invented a special bass trombone just to do it. I learned something new today!
that's in the Miraculous Mandarin
Doug Yeo actually was playing his custom Yamaha made F bass trombone in the video shown of him. Its the only one they ever made and they did it just for him to use for this.
Just for testing a theory I somehow managed that glissando using a cloned superbone. As valves 1&3 together is equivalent to an F-trigger, slide 6th position gives the "C". (7th being unavailable) So with all valves 123 and the 6th position I can reach the "B". I just gliss upwards while gradually releasing valve 2 to reach the "F". Not sure if this approach is acceptable to the trombone community though.
That’s very creative and I wouldn’t have thought of that lol
Trombone is a magical instrument.
When the air raid siren sounds, I tell my wife: our neighbor is teaching a trombone lesson. And my wife immediately calms down.
Hi from Ukraine!
Hope you’re doing alright
Tubists are never busy anyway. So just getting them to do it is easier.
Can they mop the floor as well? Looks like a slippery slope to me
Hey now we can be very busy depending on what piece we’re playing 😂
@@tracefuqua3651 naaaah. Not in a symph orchestra
PS okay okay, maybe if its a short one, like short ride in a fast machine but not core repertoire
@@AndreyRubtsovRU I agree in an orchestral setting not so much but my personal experience is outside of that realm. I can understand why the tuba doesn’t get as much respect as other instruments
@@tracefuqua3651 orchestra tubists though? Yeah, busy counting to four 600 times.
Bartok is like, "I always find that trombone sound funny, so I'll put it here."
Wouldn't just using the f attachment also work since it makes the instrument be in the key of f?
the slide isn't long enough. when using the valve you only get about 6 positions
@@samuelzackrisson8865 Thats what I thought was the problem at first as well, but as far as I can tell and based on my own experiences it would still be a problem even if the instrument is in f directly, slide positions get weird playing that low even without using one of the triggers
@@jackkuni3137 I have a trombone with a trigger and i can tell it's impossible to play b natural on it. c is just about possible
@@jackkuni3137 The slide on the Bartok trombone is double-wrapped, making the slide positions 1/2 as long. And the slide on the bass sackbut has a handle to make 7th position possible.
@@jeremyquiros5483 Thanks for the explanation, I did not notice that part and that makes a lot more sense
Glad to know that Clarinets aren't the only section that classical orchestral composers hate.
Tuning slide assist is on my list of under-appreciated words
Its so funny to see this Video, because we are playing and practicing this piece right now and our Trombonist is using method one. Our first rehearsal was very funny, because our Conductor, a trombonist himself, brings his Bass Trombone every time they played the piece and never saw that solution before😂
Making things even crazier, this is a tritonal glissando!
More videos like this, love when u make longer videos like this😊
"Method three bring a bass sackbutt and let it rip."
Got me☠️💀💀☠️
1:00 Love the Dale Chihuly sculpture in the background.
for no reason, ive watched this video over 50 times
Love this content!
At Symphony Hall in Boston they have Kauko Kahila's two-valve bass trombone in a glass case with a printed version of the story about how this Bartók gliss led to its innovation / development.
Hi Timo, I’m a professional tubist. Can I make a sackbut suggestion? Don’t puff your cheeks, keep the corners firm. Low register will rip.
did I hear a Minecraft zombie? 1:11
I've met Douglas Yeo before! He's the interim trombone professor at the University of Illinois right now, very friendly and nice.
I think you can also fake a bit of it with your embouchure, but it won’t sound as good. I’ve used t this technique to play stuff that technically requires a trigger on trombones without a trigger. You can also play B naturals with a single trigger so it’s a useful technique to know even if you have a trigger.
Every orchestra needs to have a Bartok F bone in it's inventory for that one piece. Just like they own timpani and bass drums.
Beautiful
Ok then, let's transpose the whole concerto xD
Option 4 play on a euphonium and do a half valve fake glisando that sounds 80 percent as good at 1/6th the cost and 1/10th the effort.
Love the Sackbut sound! Very ethereal, in a T-bone way;)-John in Texas
I managed to squeak bass trombone notes out of a regular trombone with the F attachment by just using my bottom lip, it pissed off my music teacher that I could do it but it worked and thats how I was 3rd trombone for 6 years
This is fascinating and hilarious, tysm
In the Miraculous Mandarin there’s a section that has a bunch of these glosses but much quieter 😊
also downward ones, which can't be played by the shoelace method.
"The 12,337.16 trombone!"
Tubas, percussion, flutes, string players, etc.: "That's a steal!"
I do really appreciate that the reasonable top end for (tenor) trombones tops out around 6 grand.
Flutes? Those are cheap AF!
@@q12aw50 You'd think so, and some of them can be, but the really high end stuff is stupid expensive, because they're literally made out of stuff like Silver, or Gold.
1:20 that Honda guy in you'r neighbourhood at 3am when you try to sleep
I never knew this until today thanks!
is that winfred felton in the bassoon section? tell him dean from undergrad in denver says hey! sweet video, that tuning slide assist to get the Bb in 6th position was genius
I just noticed that how the tubas mouthpiece at 0:28 looks clear or am I just seeing things
Probably a Kelly 50.
Shostakovich: _Composes 7th symphony about the death and destruction of Leningrad_
Bartok: "And I took that personally."
You should play the trombone solo form GBA Riverside Park, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe please!
0:23 waaaaAAH!
Effectively a big middle finger to Shostakovich's Seventh
blowing the raspberry...
this is insane!
how long of pvc would you have to put on your f attachment to do it I wonder... if you really wanted to do it that way
I reckon at least 1 foot
Wanna know something funny? There is a 3rd valve configuration for bass trombonists. It is called a greenhoe 3-valve bass trombone.
My tuning slide could never
0:25 is that timo near the sheet music
going to get the big bucks (hopefully)
A Bb/F & E bass trombone can do it. I had an Elkhart 62h in this configuration, no problem
Your like the only youtuber who owns a Bass Sackbut.
0:24 Taco Bell sound
Darn that Bartok!
AMEN
Why do i have spongebob in my head xD
Genuine Skill issue, when i was in highschool band i had a dream to play bass trombone but was too poor so i would just pitch down with my lips while in 6th position on my pea shooter.
The skill issue part was a joke but the note bending wasn't, i got pretty good at, and even tho on its own it sounded like ass i would play some parts down an octave with the ensemble by doing this. my grandparents finally bought me a single trigger bass trombone my softmore year tho.
You can just pull the tuning slide all the way out and play it on a normal F attachment trombone.
genius
Musicians: Write something I could play
Composers: hahahahaha, NO.....
im starting band soon and playing the trombone do yall got any tips
Practice
am I the only one mesmerized by the "value" of instruments in the frame while pondering the choice of a Clear Kellyberg tuba mouthpiece? LOL ( nothing against them, I use one for a teaching tool, but.....)
Hi bro. Can u play tarantella (Gioachino rossini) please ?
When a young composer writes such a clumsy thing, he is despised. When an established composer does the same thing, everyone thinks it is brilliant...
Wtf are you smoking that has nothing to do with the video
That "augh this is terrible" made me chuckle, even if I don't know how horrible it is because I never played brass lmao
It sounds awful
@@q12aw50 Oh so that's why; I first thought it's the mouth feel that is awful instead lmao
@@aloysiuskurnia7643 it probably is too lol
I am currently play trombone in school I has a quest for you have you ever played with Karl Jackson
I don’t know why I thought the clarinet part before the trombone solo, looks easier.
What is the name of the piece? What should I type in to listen to it?
Reject bartok trombones.
Embrace sackbut.
WIth the assist finally the tuba players will have something to do during rests
I played this on a regular f attachment what is the problem
i can actually do this bartok solo with the need of having a bass trombone and 3 hands on my straight tenor trombone
I didnt know chrizzhall played the tuba💀
Jazz gang says: ever heard of fake notes? We get to play a low D of C without valve if you practice enough xD
I know the pedal b is unplayable on a b flat tuba. Is this the same reason for the bass trombone?
It's totally playable with a fifth valve, as many instruments today have, and also totally possible with a compensating valve set as the British use (though compensating valves tend to make instruments sound stuffy). It is also sometimes possible to use false tones on 3 and 4 valve instruments.
A single valve bass trombone has the same problem, but slightly less severe. Trigger + 7th position is equivalent to 1-2-3-4 (with a tuning slide pulled) on tuba. This is why bass trombones have a 2nd trigger. This gliss is still not quite possible with that valve setup, though, because you'd need to instantly move the slide out like four positions when disengaging the Gb valve, since that valve needs to be engaged tor B and disengaged for F.
is this in Trombone Hero?
method 4: lip it down to the B
1:30 isn’t that an F bass trombone
Man those quintuplets at 0:19 were not clean at all
Hey Trombone Timo! Just curious on what model of trombone you use because I am interested in looking to buy one for myself. Do you know where I could go to find one? Thanks!
Hey in numb chuks o evil tree o evil tree there’s a Seneca where the chuks fungus playing the cilenders and Dillard playing the trumpet plz go check if is not Andrew crowtly
1:10 this always make me laugh XD
Does anyone know what the full song is called?
I like the bass sackbut method.
The little-known rarely-used original lyrics immediately after that brief trombone solo are, "Elnézést a fingásért !!"
You could record the note and then play it back yay
so we not gonna talk about the composers posture lol
Is this harder than the whole Rach 3?
The easiest and the most cost effective way is to cheat by starting the glissando a semitone higher. Very few people will notice, including some conductors.
I always notice
Murph!
Murph moment
Murph’s magical music moment
Can’t you used both the F attachment and the Gb attachment to make that glissando?
No, because if you use both triggers, the low B would be on somewhere around the 5th position, so you can't do a glissando over 6 semitones ...
Cool
SACKBUT FTW!!!!!!!
mclovin is playing trombone, omg, superbad is real
I have a simple single rotary trombone. I bet you i could play that easy
Or spend a couple hundred having a tech make a long slide for you- senior tech and bass bone player here. It’s really not that hard
I have a song u can do on trombone the song called Black blues
When you have big trombone $$$
Is it really _just_ two notes tho? Is a CVT just two gears? I'ma callin' science on that.
All that hassle and I could've farted that note in F if you had given me $12,34🤔🤷🏼♂️