The $12,337.16 Bartók Glissando...
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Have you ever felt the need to go out and secure a $12,000 instrument just to play two notes? Have you ever seen a trombonist tie a shoelace to his bone? Neither have I, but today we will be exploring the 4 methods involved in playing the infamous bass trombone solo in the fourth movement of Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra! Which one do you like best?
Take a lesson with me! - forms.gle/Kt2L...
Douglas Yeo Video - • Douglas Yeo Yamaha Tro...
Graeme Mutchler Video - • Bartok Trombone
#basstrombone #orchestra #classicalmusic
This story gets even more comical if you consider that the only reason the bass trombone evolved to even have a second valve was because Bartok wrote this glissando.
Even the modern 2 valve Vass trombones can't play it smoothly without the tuning slide trick
@@mccabecompositions The plot thickens!
Initially, two-valve bass trombones featured the F valve, and a dependent second valve in flat E. This extended the horn just enough to play the Bartok glissando, which is why this pitch was chosen.
From there, a skilled player can theoretically execute a B to F gliss by releasing the valve during the gliss slowly to get the half valve smoothing gliss effect.
This became less doable as the second valve evolved to be more useful as a whole, and B moved away from the very end of the slide.
So would a dependent, double valve bass still be able to do this?
@@sinatrabone no, you’d need an older model where the second valve is in flat E for this trick
Since its inception in the sixties, the second valve of the single rotor bass took on different tunings, like Eb, and D.
It’s even funnier because it’s just a loud fart sound 😂
Bartok setting the trombone industry for life with just two notes (or one sliding tone, whichever way you slice it)
An uncountable number of tones in a range
"Or how I learned to stop caring and make millions off of trombones"
I don't wanna slice it I wanna slide it.
One small passage in a piece, one giant profit for the trombone industry!
I saw Graeme Mutchler play this with the Utah symphony a few years ago. They rented that Bartok trombone for the weekend. They even had him bring it out and give the audience a demonstration on it before they started the piece (presumably to get a bit more value for their money! Haha).
Graeme is an absolutely fantastic musician, btw. If you ever get the opportunity to hear him in recital, take it!
Hello, this costs $12k and only has one use near the end of the show. Enjoy the performance folks!
Interesting, because that tiny little clip of Mutchler at 1:00 is in the lobby of the Utah Symphony’s very own Abravanel Hall by coincidence.
The ultimate way to show your big trombone $$$. Alsothe other day I hit my first double C and I'm very proud😊
You’re getting there
Double C was upwards right? Not entierly familiar with english terms on that front. If so, i can only hit single(?) Eb on my Tuba, so wow
high or low?
@@shadowflarehd2376 high
ive only had to go up to g (-2 position) in a song before, but one time i got high as fuck (on weed, not the note) and accidentally started hitting notes higher than my flute player friend could
damn, i cant imagine having a tuning slide that moved that easily
Lol
I was thinking that, too. How much grease is on that thing?
Hetman Light Slide Gel is pretty easy to move
@@counterfit5 no i know, i was making a joke about public school instruments lmao
if you have a good quality horn it'll move easily
Trombone is a magical instrument.
When the air raid siren sounds, I tell my wife: our neighbor is teaching a trombone lesson. And my wife immediately calms down.
Hi from Ukraine!
Hope you’re doing alright
No lie, I played this piece in college, and used a Bass Sackbut! The hilarious part was how "fatter" the second trombonist sounded when he did his, lol.
Doug Yeo actually was playing his custom Yamaha made F bass trombone in the video shown of him. Its the only one they ever made and they did it just for him to use for this.
Bartok wrote a two-note joke that literally changed trombone history
its hilarious cuz you can play it easily with a regular Bb/F Orchestral Tenor Trombone
@@jeffmousebeans5055no you can't because you can't gliss that interval. It's not the notes individually that are the problem, it's the fact that the slide isn't long enough to play it normally.
@@gunnarkilborn3915 bro i have a Bb/F tenor trombone and i can do it easily. If you want i can make a video of me doing it
@@jeffmousebeans5055 "you can play it easily with a regular Bb/F Orchestral Tenor Trombone" -- this is incorrect
@@jebbishop3 it literally is. do you want me to post a video of me doing it? cuz i can, and its not hard at all
Tubists are never busy anyway. So just getting them to do it is easier.
Can they mop the floor as well? Looks like a slippery slope to me
Hey now we can be very busy depending on what piece we’re playing 😂
@@tracefuqua3651 naaaah. Not in a symph orchestra
PS okay okay, maybe if its a short one, like short ride in a fast machine but not core repertoire
@@AndreyRubtsovRU I agree in an orchestral setting not so much but my personal experience is outside of that realm. I can understand why the tuba doesn’t get as much respect as other instruments
@@tracefuqua3651 orchestra tubists though? Yeah, busy counting to four 600 times.
Wouldn't just using the f attachment also work since it makes the instrument be in the key of f?
the slide isn't long enough. when using the valve you only get about 6 positions
@@samuelzackrisson8865 Thats what I thought was the problem at first as well, but as far as I can tell and based on my own experiences it would still be a problem even if the instrument is in f directly, slide positions get weird playing that low even without using one of the triggers
@@jackkuni3137 I have a trombone with a trigger and i can tell it's impossible to play b natural on it. c is just about possible
@@jackkuni3137 The slide on the Bartok trombone is double-wrapped, making the slide positions 1/2 as long. And the slide on the bass sackbut has a handle to make 7th position possible.
@@jeremyquiros5483 Thanks for the explanation, I did not notice that part and that makes a lot more sense
Its so funny to see this Video, because we are playing and practicing this piece right now and our Trombonist is using method one. Our first rehearsal was very funny, because our Conductor, a trombonist himself, brings his Bass Trombone every time they played the piece and never saw that solution before😂
"Method three bring a bass sackbutt and let it rip."
Got me☠️💀💀☠️
Hi Timo, I’m a professional tubist. Can I make a sackbut suggestion? Don’t puff your cheeks, keep the corners firm. Low register will rip.
0:24 Taco Bell sound
for no reason, ive watched this video over 50 times
More videos like this, love when u make longer videos like this😊
Every orchestra needs to have a Bartok F bone in it's inventory for that one piece. Just like they own timpani and bass drums.
Effectively a big middle finger to Shostakovich's Seventh
blowing the raspberry...
At Symphony Hall in Boston they have Kauko Kahila's two-valve bass trombone in a glass case with a printed version of the story about how this Bartók gliss led to its innovation / development.
I've met Douglas Yeo before! He's the interim trombone professor at the University of Illinois right now, very friendly and nice.
I just noticed that how the tubas mouthpiece at 0:28 looks clear or am I just seeing things
Probably a Kelly 50.
Just for testing a theory I somehow managed that glissando using a cloned superbone. As valves 1&3 together is equivalent to an F-trigger, slide 6th position gives the "C". (7th being unavailable) So with all valves 123 and the 6th position I can reach the "B". I just gliss upwards while gradually releasing valve 2 to reach the "F". Not sure if this approach is acceptable to the trombone community though.
You should play the trombone solo form GBA Riverside Park, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe please!
"The 12,337.16 trombone!"
Tubas, percussion, flutes, string players, etc.: "That's a steal!"
I do really appreciate that the reasonable top end for (tenor) trombones tops out around 6 grand.
Flutes? Those are cheap AF!
@@q12aw50 You'd think so, and some of them can be, but the really high end stuff is stupid expensive, because they're literally made out of stuff like Silver, or Gold.
I managed to squeak bass trombone notes out of a regular trombone with the F attachment by just using my bottom lip, it pissed off my music teacher that I could do it but it worked and thats how I was 3rd trombone for 6 years
1:20 that Honda guy in you'r neighbourhood at 3am when you try to sleep
When a young composer writes such a clumsy thing, he is despised. When an established composer does the same thing, everyone thinks it is brilliant...
Wtf are you smoking that has nothing to do with the video
this is insane!
I never knew this until today thanks!
This is fascinating and hilarious, tysm
Musicians: Write something I could play
Composers: hahahahaha, NO.....
Jazz gang says: ever heard of fake notes? We get to play a low D of C without valve if you practice enough xD
genius
am I the only one mesmerized by the "value" of instruments in the frame while pondering the choice of a Clear Kellyberg tuba mouthpiece? LOL ( nothing against them, I use one for a teaching tool, but.....)
Your like the only youtuber who owns a Bass Sackbut.
Darn that Bartok!
AMEN
The little-known rarely-used original lyrics immediately after that brief trombone solo are, "Elnézést a fingásért !!"
All that hassle and I could've farted that note in F if you had given me $12,34🤔🤷🏼♂️
going to get the big bucks (hopefully)
Murph!
Murph moment
Murph’s magical music moment
i can actually do this bartok solo with the need of having a bass trombone and 3 hands on my straight tenor trombone
im starting band soon and playing the trombone do yall got any tips
Practice
I have a simple single rotary trombone. I bet you i could play that easy
1:10 this always make me laugh XD
Hey in numb chuks o evil tree o evil tree there’s a Seneca where the chuks fungus playing the cilenders and Dillard playing the trumpet plz go check if is not Andrew crowtly
You could record the note and then play it back yay
SACKBUT FTW!!!!!!!
I am currently play trombone in school I has a quest for you have you ever played with Karl Jackson
I like the bass sackbut method.
1:12 bring a bass saxBUT and LET IT RIP key word RIP 💀💀💀
Do you also hear the minecraft zombie sound??? 1:11
I played this on a regular f attachment what is the problem
Hey Trombone Timo! Just curious on what model of trombone you use because I am interested in looking to buy one for myself. Do you know where I could go to find one? Thanks!
Sounds like Rich People problems , to me 😮
Sounds like you just suck at music
is this in Trombone Hero?
Or spend a couple hundred having a tech make a long slide for you- senior tech and bass bone player here. It’s really not that hard
The F bass sack butt has to be the most flatulent instrument name in history
Is it really _just_ two notes tho? Is a CVT just two gears? I'ma callin' science on that.
method 3>>>
Cool
I have a song u can do on trombone the song called Black blues
Can’t you used both the F attachment and the Gb attachment to make that glissando?
No, because if you use both triggers, the low B would be on somewhere around the 5th position, so you can't do a glissando over 6 semitones ...
When you have big trombone $$$
Hungary magyar vagyok ismerem Bartók Bélát
Sounds like a design flaw to me
I played the bass sacbut in college,..it was a horrible instrument, thank god for modern trombones
I think step one would be for the composer to not write such a part.
Did you even watch the video
Easy Solution…Get A ContraBass Trombone…
Why would you write a part that an instrument can't play?
I’m just gonna assume you did watch the video and you’re just stupid
Did you watch video?
It's expensive to be trombonist. 😮
It's actually very inexpensive compared to every other orchestral instrument.
Imagine paying 12 grand just to play a glissando that can be handled on any standard cello (or cello derivative like the mandocello or tenor banjo,) bass (or bass derivatives like the bass guitar,) bajo sexto (or it's reduced range little brother the bajo quinto) or the increasingly popular seven string classical guitar. It's even a solo so you wouldn't have to worry about being overpowered by the rest of the orchestra.
This message brought to you by strings gang.
those instruments are comically weak compared to a trombone
I can easily demolish a cello
Can’t be said for a trombone
Checkmate
@@kochi3accordionName a single trombone-focused recording that has captured the public imagination the same way Jacqueline du Pre's rendition of Elgar's Cello Concerto has. I'll wait.
@@tjenadonn6158 what the fuck does public image have to do with the fact that brass instruments are very loud?
@@kochi3accordion You ever heard of a little thing called amplification? Even leaving aside electric celli, with even the most top-of-the-line models from the likes of Wood Instruments and NS Designs plus the cost of a good amp still costing less than a Bartok trombone, you can just straight up mike the soloist. Even period accurate chamber orchestras like the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment use some sort of sound reinforcement during live performances.
Huh?
Hello :D
Just lip down
Or just go back to playing bass trombones in the historically correct key instead of big ass tenor trombones.
And 0.16$plz…😂
you're overcomplicating it. Autotune. Fix it in post.
bruh
Always knew trombones were perverts!!!!! lol
Just bring your Contabass... itll do that right?...... right?
Or lip it down like a man. It’s free.
why u gotta bring gender into this, playing trombone isn't about being a man or woman
@@jacksonmurphy1324 men are far superior to women in playing trombone. Why do you think it’s called Trombone, not Tromhole? Duh….
Imagine paying so much to play complete garbage.
Buying an instrument for this purpose is stupid. This is just stupidity. Pure stupidity. Nonsense. There isn't any special artistic result due to these stupid things. People and musicians get stupid because they admire and worship certain famous or not composers. I am better composer than him. Plus more economical. If I too had the resources, I would create miracles. In much more practical ways. Nowadays there are lots of prodigies that start composing at age of 3 or 4. And they get mature artistically, musically very early. But history will never remember their names, even if they are much more gifted and geniuses than Mozart. See, luck olays the major role. Everybody is substitutionable. No, Mozart or Bartok or Beethoven or Stravinsky or Glück weren't something special. Yes, they were gifted etc. But humanity would have created their masterpieces sooner or later either way. Using Mozart or any other individual instead. It doesn't matter who. Lots of individuals are capable. Human species has a lot of options. So don't bother worshipping specific composers. They don't deserve more love or fame than any other gifted or not gifted individual on the planet. It was merely luck. Mozart was lucky. Beethoven was lucky. Bach was lucky and so on. A lot of scientific research supports this evidence, rather than the belief that some people are exceptional by their own choice or effort. Most of scientists agree with this. I read about this. I didn't make this stuff up. So buying an musicalninstrument for this purpose isn't worth it. It is stupid. No composer is worth this. I am not worth it as a composer as well. Be smart people
You seem cool and fun
Wtf
It’s an instrument
@@NotFine a very expensive instrument. At the same time children all over the world are starving. If we need Art that much, then we should really reconsider our priorities. Is THIS the kind of Art we want to have in our societies?
@@dimkk605 Oh so why are you wasting your time making this comment and not helping starving children. Yes there are problems happening right now, but you cant just use them to justify hating any action that's not addressing them.
Also wdym this kind of art? It's a song that used an instrument that was common at the time. That's like berating a composer for writing for a F attachment trombone. Buying an instrument for it while yes is probably irresponsible with your money, you're allowed to spend your money on stuff you care about. Do you write novels about people who buy cars as a hobby?
@@NotFine @NotFine I write novels about almost anything. Not only for this particular issue. This is just who I am. I talk a lot. 😁 I argue a lot. And this is totally fine.
Let's not open this topic about starving children. Ofcourse people waste their time and energy in lots of useless stuff. Including myself.
Of course I help starving children on a regular basis. I assume you too. But this is not a philanthropy showing off. Comparing yourself to others regarding who is more humane is a little stupid in my personal point of view. The only reason I mentioned starving children was to simply point out that the argue "it's just an instrument" is nothing more than an excuse. Cause it's not just an instrument. It's something truely expensive. Something that takes a lot of effort to accomplish. This orchestra wasted a lot of energy and money etc to a meaningless thing. I dont blame the composer. He was a man of his time. He didn't humanity to adopt his mindset. He just suggested his own idea, this composition with this instrument. If we still keep up with this idea, if we still continue admiring dead composers because "this is the trend nowdays", if we spend a lot of time and energy and money for this stupidity just because Bartok is famous, then it's totally OUR fault.
Can we change as a society? Or do we still endorse this kind of meaningless art-less activity? Can we change and use are resources more wisely? Can we stop admiring people that aren't worth is so much afterall at the expense of ourselves? Yes we can. Or perhaps we can admire them in wiser ways. This is the real challenge.
I am not willing to escape this crucial question. I could easily turn this conversation into a personal-ad hominem fight. You gave me many reasons. But that's not the point. I don't care if I am right or you are right. We are both right. Or not It doesn't matter. Expecting finding justice online is immature. Not my field.
It's not even a nice sounding sound. Why is it in the piece of music?
Why does every aspect of a music piece need to sound nice?
Huh, my history was waaaay off on this. I thought Bartók originally wrote this as a tuba glissando, but no one could do it, so they invented a special bass trombone just to do it. I learned something new today!
that's in the Miraculous Mandarin
Bartok is like, "I always find that trombone sound funny, so I'll put it here."
Glad to know that Clarinets aren't the only section that classical orchestral composers hate.
at 1:11 you can hear a minecraft zombie groan
Making things even crazier, this is a tritonal glissando!
Tuning slide assist is on my list of under-appreciated words
is that winfred felton in the bassoon section? tell him dean from undergrad in denver says hey! sweet video, that tuning slide assist to get the Bb in 6th position was genius
method 4: lip it down to the B
Ok then, let's transpose the whole concerto xD
I think you can also fake a bit of it with your embouchure, but it won’t sound as good. I’ve used t this technique to play stuff that technically requires a trigger on trombones without a trigger. You can also play B naturals with a single trigger so it’s a useful technique to know even if you have a trigger.
The easiest and the most cost effective way is to cheat by starting the glissando a semitone higher. Very few people will notice, including some conductors.
I always notice
how long of pvc would you have to put on your f attachment to do it I wonder... if you really wanted to do it that way
I reckon at least 1 foot
Option 4 play on a euphonium and do a half valve fake glisando that sounds 80 percent as good at 1/6th the cost and 1/10th the effort.
1:30 isn’t that an F bass trombone
In the Miraculous Mandarin there’s a section that has a bunch of these glosses but much quieter 😊
also downward ones, which can't be played by the shoelace method.
Love this content!