From Protestantism to Catholicism w/ Philosopher Alex Plato
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- In this interview, I chat with Dr. Alex Plato (yes, that's his real last name) about his conversion from Protestantism to Catholicism. Conversion stories are always interesting! This one is no exception.
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Yes! This has been immensely helpful. Dr. Plato articulated so many of my own internal arguments, wrestlings, and conclusions. I’m not yet Catholic, but I desire to be. Pray for me!
You desire to pray to patron saints, Mary, accept Marian dogmas because there tradition says so?
The Word Of God is the two edged sword not catholism. Just to clarify!
It’s beautiful being a Catholic, we have the most precious sacraments like the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, sacrament of reconciliation. After confession, one experiences the most wonderful feeling of having a heavy weight lifted off your shoulders. Receiving Jesus Christ is an indescribable feeling. The love and assistance from our mother in heaven fills your heart. I could never leave the treasures we have in our Catholic faith. May God bless you and guide you in this journey. Ask, and you shall receive… God knows our hearts and he is always listening. He will grant you what you ask him if it’s good for the salvation of your soul.
I will pray for you. The greatest humans to live were the Saints and I will pray to them to help you along on your journey back to Christ the King. Through the intercession of his saints and the blessed Virgin Mary , His Mother on Earth and Ours, You will be safe from the enemy who tricks us and tests our faith. God bless you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit Amen.
In the Catholic Church we have patron saints for just about everything, from Alpine troops (St. Maurice) to zoos (St. Francis of Assisi). They’re an important part of Catholic spirituality, because we believe that the saints are still alive, that we are still connected to them through the Holy Spirit in the Communion of Saints, and that they can still help us with their prayers since they’re united with God in heaven. We also should have patrons of our own. I have a small army but my main man is Saint Columba of Scotland. I also have Saint Stephen the Protomartyr as my confirmation Saint because as a young boy I was compelled by his bravery and commitment to our Lord , God and saviour Jesus Christ. His story left an almighty impression on me and I pray for his intercession along with others. Saint Peter, Saint Andrew, Blessed Carlo Acutis and the list goes on. It’s wonderful to learn of their lives as all of them offer us a virtue to learn and they always direct us to Jesus Christ on the cross. We can find who our patrons are in all sorts of glorious ways and they can find us too. They will help you forever.
@@mari7775
All believers are indwelt with the HOLY SPIRIT. Catholism claims the eucharist is literal body and Blood?
That would make it a contradiction.
Is catholism saying that the HOLY SPIRIT is not enough or not God?
Jesus said do this in memory !
We already have His presence in and thru the HOLY SPIRIT, get it!
OK, I am seriously impressed by Dr Plato. Bring him back, Cameron 🙂
I'm not impressed
@@hello-cn5nh Ciao
@@hello-cn5nh Well, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
Catholicism, the one and only church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ. Every other denomination are founded by men and teach different doctrines but not Jesus's doctrines.
@@comunidadpadreluistoro I don't think it is so simple. Eastern Ortodox also have apostolic succession, so they can claim exactly the same.
Yes! Please have Plato on the show again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hear hear!
Yes I would love to have Dr. Plato back on! Become Catholic, I am going to cross the Tiber as soon as possible.
Welcome brother.
Ave Christus Rex
Same here! Making my way to the Church 🙏🏻
@@tony1685 it says “The Catholic Church is not *the* Church” ??
@@tony1685 tell us which commandments has the Church broken in regards to your references? And, have you personally broken any commandment that He will not forgive you for?
@@tony1685 Of course I believe it, as Scripture I must believe it. It’s your interpretations I still fail to understand. Are you Adventist?
Dr. Plato is the best. Took 4 classes with him at Franciscan. So much knowledge packed into each and every class. Sometimes I had to take a nap afterwards because it was so mentally exhausting haha.
awesome. i’m going to Franciscan next year to major in philosophy. very excited
Dr. Plato is the best. The only teacher that I wish would lecture more!
@@tony1685 Stop following the wrong religion and convert to Hinduism!
Yes you should bring Dr. Plato to the show again 🖒
God bless you two brothers
Yes, please have Dr Plato back. I am a cradle Catholic and I love accompanying new Catholics and non-Catholics on their journey by listening to their stories. God bless you both!
Yes, I would be more happy if I get to hear dr. Plato again on this channel..thnku cam and Dr. Plato😇😇
Yes, bring back Dr. Plato back!
my husband and I became Catholic from protestantism a year and a half ago & Dr Plato brings up things I totally relate with! Im not so smart & deeply thought as he is haha but so many things he said I totally related with thinking about & considering as we converted. God bless!
@@tony1685 Colossians 2:16
God Bless You! Welcome home!
@@tony1685 I am praying for you.
@@tony1685 Hi Tony - I’ve learned through much experience that RUclips is not a productive place for such discussions and debate. Rather than me reproducing fundamental Catholic teachings here, I ask you to prayerfully access the videos on RUclips by people like Trent Horn, Jimmy Akin, Scott Hahn, Joe Heschmeyer and many others who are so gifted at explaining the beautiful harmony between the Church Christ left us and the Holy Scriptures that came forth through the work of the Holy Spirit from that church. I realize right now you don’t agree with that last statement, and that’s fine, we are all at different points in our walk with the Lord. If you believe in Jesus and are baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then we are brothers in Christ. Peace.
@@tony1685 Tony this is most certainly not a good place for discussion. What are the chances that your mind could be changed by ANYTHING said here? I dare say it’s 0%. Just like Saul was not going to be convinced by mere words, but rather a different kind of intervention changed his heart. I’ve experienced an unsurpassing love from this Jesus and His gifts that HE freely gives through His Church. I’m as confident in the reality of this Christ as I am that the sun will rise tomorrow. And I’ve seen and experienced literal miracles too when praying to Jesus, special gifts of God to show His love for me as an individual.
If you get to heaven and see Catholics - will you turn away, and say, “No way God, THOSE people aren’t supposed to be here!!” Please be very very careful about criticizing His Church. It’s one thing to have debates about scientific theories or politics and later find out you were on the wrong side… the consequences aren’t that bad… but if what the Catholic Church teaches turns out to be true and you spent so much time directly attacking it and spreading lies about it… then what? “Oops God, I’m sorry.” You would really be banking on God’s mercy to excuse you based on ignorance. You simply have NO IDEA what you are talking about when you talk about the Catholic faith. The claim that Catholics are pagans is so juvenile and profoundly wrong there is no use in replying to it. If someone says the moon is made of cheese, how many hours would you be willing to debate them? And do you think that person would ever be convinced otherwise anyway??
But I AM happy to talk with non-Catholic Christians about all sorts of things, sharing about what we DO have in common, which is a love for Christ and hearts filled with thanksgiving for what He has done for us. We have an amazing God. God Bless.
Yes, bring Plato back.
Yes, I would love to see Dr Plato back on your show.
Yes would love to have Dr. Plato back on
Bring Dr Plato back on Please.
Yes, please bring Dr. Plato back on!
Also - my wife and I are going through the same search you are. It's a blessing to have channels like yours and Matt's to inspire and inform our own conversations.
20 minutes in, reminds so much of Ronald Knox’s book “The Belief of Catholics” - which he explains why Catholics decide to be Catholics. And somewhat tells of his conversion from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism. I think you would like it Cameron
If you like Fr Knox you should check out the Enthusiasm series on Meaning of Catholic channel
Yes, please have Dr. PLATO back on the show.
I'm all for bringing back Dr. Plato! Thanks for having him on!
Yes, bring him back please! Very interested in these types of discussions.
Plato’s remarks at minute 59 practically had me in tears. Deeply want to know what God wants of me and as sincerely as I can, trying to discern through prayer and study what god has revealed
Please have Dr. Plato back to discuss the Pascal's wager!!
Pascal's Wager, believe it or not, has however subtly played a big role in my staying Catholic. And, it's a good thing it did because, since faith grows and deepens only over time, it gave me that time I needed. If a discussion between you and Dr. Plato can tweak me and/or others further in the right direction, please do it. Thank you, and God bless.,
BTW, catholicism is true!
Catholicism is a perversion of what Jesus actually said.
Catholicism elevates humans and degrades God.
Telling your sins to a human does not erase them.
God doesn't need a representative on Earth to do his work
@@friendlyneighborhoodhuman John 20, 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
@@friendlyneighborhoodhuman John 20, 21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
@@friendlyneighborhoodhuman John 20:21
@@aadschram5877 that's the problem with these modern English translations..
In Mark Jesus clearly says only the Son OF MAN has the authority of forgiving sins and in the Bible, Son of Man title is exclusively given to Jesus alone..
Now you are telling me that, there are Jesus 2.0's are living among us?
Thank you both. I’m a cradle Catholic but, if I wasn’t I would convert. The reason to be Catholic is so simple the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. May God always bless you all.
That doesn't make any sense at all. Catholicism adds works to salvation. By definition it is more complicated than true Protestant Christianity.
By saying this it unfortunately shows you do not know what Catholics believe or our relationship with Jesus. I am a convert from atheism. I was Baptised Catholic decades ago and I understand exactly why I am Catholic, because of Christ. I would encourage you to really experience what Catholics believe, how we pray and worship. We have an intimate relationship with Jesus, you are mislead if you think anything else.
Cradle Catholic and I love my faith and I continue to learn more and more. The more I learn, the more I appreciate my faith.
@@viviennedunbar3374 I love when people on the internet gaslight me. I was raised Catholic. I personally have spent hours studying Catholicism. Adding works to salvation is saying that what Jesus did isn't good enough. That's disgusting. Accept Christ, don't add to it. Mike Winger has done excellent teachings on Catholicism.
@@MyBrandingIsBad Mike Winger is a more like magic Mike😂. He loves to twist things around and pretend he is so humble 🤢 hypocrisy much.
There are better Protestant ministers/preachers to be following.
YES! Bring Plato back. Thank you!!
Why? nothing new under the sun.
Catholic theology leads to confusion and bondage
@@fabiotuan5206 Sad you feel that way. I Enjoy watching these conversations between Christians.
Yes! Have The philosopher with the coolest name back on the show!
Yay! Thank you for being open to Catholicism ^_^❤
Absolutely yes to having Dr. Plato on again! 🙏🏻
Yes!! Please bring back Dr Plato. This was so enjoyable to watch and contemplate! Keep up the excellent work Cameron!!
Thank you gentleman. God bless you both!
Yes, please have Dr Plato on again.
"If you seek the Truth - There is no anxiety" 57:43 Thanks for reminding me of this promise of God Dr. Plato, as I from time to time experience a lot of anxiety,
reminding myself of this promise dissipates that!
It's wonderful how a simple remembrance of God's promises can bring one at ease.
Yes DR. Plato 😊 Yes Cameron. I subscribed two years ago, give or take, you are not the only one who is on this journey. I honestly respect someone who can decide what to believe. For me it was never a choice. I am proud most of the time, bust sometimes I ponder that pride. I have had genuine moments with God. It's funny how a moment can touch eternity. God has rewarded my faith in the last six months through RUclips of all things... Caitlin Bennett at liberty hangout, Milo Yinnopolis has re affirmed his faith, Jordan Peterson has been seen at masses lately, hopefully you're next Cameron. Even learning the actor who plays Jesus in the Chosen is Catholic was cool. I have other examples of my experiences in life, I'm so blessed to see these things through time and be aware of them, and contemplate 😭 "little things" to some people, but not for me this is how God made me. God bless, your brother in Christ.
Thank you.
God bless you on your journey!
What a great conversation. Cameron, Mother Church is waiting! God bless.
OMG...This man is awesome...thanks for bringing him on Cameroon
Dr. Plato is so cool, so relatable, and so brilliant. Bring him back!
Mr. Plato's spiritual & psychological journey mirrors my own in so many ways.
I, along with many other viewers, feel as though he clearly gave language & words to the many thoughts which have passed through our minds in the last few months or even years.
YES, please be of such charity and host him again as soon as you both are available to do so.
Blessings of Peace! Viva Christo Rey!
Hello, I've just found your channel. My whole clan were Protestants back in pre-1949 China. I am grateful for my parents' acceptance of my Catholic faith. I love my mum's Lutheran church and she accepts my devotion to Mary. It is really wonderful to be able to practise your faith and follow your heart. Thank you.
Of course we want Dr Plato back. What a great conversation!
Indeed! Please bring Mr. Plato back!
Maybe touch more on how Catholics and Protestant Christians be one. What is dividing us? Fear? Pride? Not your taste?
Hard to be one when we all don’t believe the same things. Reconciling these differences is the best way to become unified.
Read Galatians
YES! Have him back on! I love the way he can speak so academically and yet use context and vocabulary to communicate the meanings in a more elementary way.
I had never hear of Dr. Plato. He really made me think. Please bring him back. I want to hear the rest of this conversation especially if it centers around Pascal's wager.
I relate to Plato's complaint of too much noise in the evangelical church
Literal noise - as in WAY TOO LOUD music - constantly. For the literal love of God, please turn down the musical noise!
@@marlaemerson3008 not only that but during prayer when the pastors are trying to intercede for us, it only gets pretty hectic.
@@marlaemerson3008 I really love the Silence in the prayerlife of the Catholic Church. In high school , in college and even when I was already working, we were sent to retreats at some religious convent. The talk given by a priest and then the silence. Beautiful. They make your soul breathe. Our relationship with Our Lord deepens only in silence. The music is good but silence is absolutely necessary.
Yes! Have Dr. Plato back!
Why? nothing new under the sun
Catholic theology leads to confusion and bondage
Yes, have hi back again ! And tanks for you amazing work, Cameron !!
Yes, would love to hear from Dr Plato again!
You should invite Dr. Brant pitre or Dr. John Bergsma who comes from a protestant background... many blessings 🙌 🙏
I love long format. Awesome interview, I've been on a Dr. Plato binge for a couple days now.
Nice to finally see Plato make an appearance on your channel!
Great video but as a Protestant, I just didn’t hear a good argument for converting to Catholic. Love the exchange of information here though!
We of the Catholic Church welcome our Christian brothers and sisters to join us in unity along with the seven sacraments. The Sacraments are what you are seeking and don't know yet. How beautiful it is to receive the Body and Blood of our Lord as He said.
This was a phenomenal interview! Please have him back on in the future!
Need to have him on again giving talks on other topics.
Heck ya bring him back!
Yes! Please have Dr. Plato back soon!
Yes please have Plato back on. One of my favorite guests you’ve ever had
Enjoyed listening to Plato and would definitely like to hear more from him
I was Protestant for 20+ years. Now in the process of becoming a priest in the Anglican Catholic Church. Many conversion stories out there. Great stuff
Anglican Catholics are still technically protestant!
@@emiliawisniewski3947 only in the sense of breaking away from the Roman church in the English reformation. However we tend to stay away from the term since the British church goes back to the year 200 or so
@@ryanthomas3059 If you’re referring to the personal ordinariates of the Catholic Church for former Anglicans (incorrectly called Anglican Catholics) or the Latin Rite English Catholics that have always been in communion with Rome, then I would agree with you. Those two groups represent the ‘Church in England’ as it was established historically. But if you’re referring to Anglican Catholics as the group under the Anglican communion (which is what I'm assuming you are referring to) then it’s incorrect to not refer to this group as protestant.
The English Reformation was part of the greater Protestant Reformation occurring in Europe at the time, originating in Germany. King Henry was heavily influenced by the German Protestant Reformer's theology, but retained almost all of the liturgical elements of the Latin Rite Catholic Church mass.
The break from the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church and the formation of the Church of England was a protestant movement. At that point in history there were then English Latin Rite Catholics (still in communion with Rome but worshipping in secret) and English Protestants (i.e. Church of England). However if you had walked into a COE service at the time, it would have been the same as a Latin Rite mass in its presentation, but not in its substance. The presentation of the liturgy changed fundamentally over time and some were not happy with this and the Anglican Catholic Church group evolved as a revisionist movement in the Church of England spurred by the Oxford Movement to get the Church of England back to its “Catholic” roots. There are some members of this movement that claim to be under papal supremacy although are not in communion with Rome (but are trying), but the vast majority of Anglican Catholics are not seeking communion with Rome but would like a return to the culture (for lack of a better world) that originated in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. They are still firmly part of the ‘Anglican’ communion which is a group of diverse protestant churches.
Interestingly this unique English style of Latin rite worship has found its way back into the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church through the personal ordinariates for former Anglicans. Not being a Catholic of English origin myself, it’s quite a nice form of liturgical worship to observe, and I’m glad its back in the Catholic family.
To say that you’ve ‘converted’ from being a Protestant into an Anglican Catholic is also incorrect as you’re still a Protestant Christian, you’ve simply changed denominations. But if you were to become an Orthodox or Catholic Christian then the term ‘converted’ would be correct. If we want to really get stuck in the weeds, you’re also not technically becoming a priest, as only Eastern Orthodox and Catholics have the true apostolic succession required to permit this. Therefore any host you hold up in your service will remain bread, even if you truly believe in transubstantiation, in contrast to your other Protestant peers .
I can see your squeamishness with the use of the term ‘Protestant’ as the splintering of the Protestant is so immense that to call yourself a ‘Protestant’ isn’t as descriptive at all, but it is technically correct. Anglican Catholics are Protestant Christians in the Anglican Communion who can trace their origin to the Church of England. There’s nothing to be ashamed of, it’s simply history.
@@emiliawisniewski3947 well you as a Roman Catholic would see it this way but is sadly incorrect. Orthodox and anglicans are waiting for the schismatic time to come back to traditions Catholic orthodoxy.
@@tony1685 I have no idea what you mean in this context
Yes, please have Dr. Plato back on any chance you can. I love the way he articulates himself, it's consistantly captivating.
Cameron, thank You! We will pray for The Truth to guide You. And yes, please Bring Dr. Plato back💕
Super interesting. I find it fascinating how Plato points out that he struggles why his other theological friends haven’t come to the same conclusion that he has.. I feel exactly the same! I still think the ultimate evidence points to Catholicism. I suppose the question would actually be how important the question of history actually is….
@YAJUN YUAN But what if the Holy Spirit guided the Church? By His Omnipotent power He would prevent any and all erroneous changes.
@YAJUN YUAN spoken like someone with no faith
@YAJUN YUAN Hi Yajun Yuan, I am a simple practising Catholic man. My intentions are purely investigative on understanding your truth and to get a better perspective in a respectful manner. From your view as you say after 200 years something changed in the true Church which indicates that the Catholic Church or even Orthodoxy isn't the real Church Christ founded. I guess you are of the view that we are misguided by the truth yet we did something hopefully righteous in eyes of God. We passed on scripture from generation to generation and still let Christianity spread (in error by your opinion) throughout the known world (even after AD200). If the Catholic or Orthdox Churches are the oldest surviving Churches who believe in Christ today, I just don't understand that centuries would pass by until the truth is revealed to a true Protestant Church (definition in my words - any demonination opposing Catholics or Orthdoxy). Which Protestant church and how does this connect with the Church that Christ essentially builds with Peter as the rock, not 1500+ years later? Also it is said that, Nor will the gates of hades prevail against it. If the church of 200 years failed? Why should any other truth be recognised, even yours?
My other thoughts... To be in union with Christ is to be united in his truth (no division as there can only be one truth). Before the Protestant reform, there was no major disunity until the Catholic and Orthdox Church split. This unity lasted for 8 centuries even if we discount the first 2. Since 1500s to now, the number of Christian denominations is in the tens of thousands. Nothing of this calibre is seen in old testament Israel i.e. the largest division AFAIK was Israel/Judah and the Pharisees/Saducees.
I guess there are so many apparent truths but the most important truth to get right is the subject of salvation.
God bless you.
Cameron, the things Dr Plato said to you about you at the end struck a nerve in a good way. I could see even if subtly how moved and emotional you were getting. The Truth moves people in such a way. God bless!
Yes, please have Dr. Plato back on and would be nice to discuss something more direct to his field.
Cameron” I am not Catholic, yet” God Bless your journey whatever you decide.
I don’t get it 🤷🏻♀️
You have the true heart of seeking God's truth.Your openess in hearing this podcast and your response proves you will one day find Joy in Christ.God bless
Lovely to watch your journey, brother. I'm a convert to Catholicism myself, and all I'll say for now is:
(1) challenges keep coming but it's all worth it and I've never regretted receiving the gift of coming into the Church; and
(2) ... what else was I going to say? Maybe only the first point matters. Maybe here's a different, second thought that occurred to me after forgetting my original second thought: entering the Church does NOTHING to separate you from God, in case you fear anything like that. Like, as if ritual or icons or devotions etc would 'crowd' your mind or distract you or occupy your time when you should be spending it on God or God-directed things. Rather, _everything_ in the Church turns out to be yet one more opportunity to grow into the fullness of Christ; yet one more opportunity to be shaped by the potter, to be purified by fire. While it may be possible to misuse a resource, the Church also offers resources for how to prudently avail yourself of her resources... and at the base of everything Christ is with you, and the Holy Spirit is with you to help you navigate each challenge or moment of confusion. If you are already baptized, brother, then the Holy Spirit is already with you in a special way and you are already our brother in a special way: I know I speak for many when I say we look forward to you coming home into the fulness of the home you were made for! Each step closer to eternity, and that eternity starts now. With the household of Mother Church on earth, where Jesus remains with us until the end of the age. Jesus prayed that we would be one as he and the Father are one: I pray the same thing now, for you and myself and all of us reading these comments now.
I am a protestant and I can't understand the fullness of truth with respect to Mary's whole being. What is she? A human? A god? If she's just a human, shall we treat her as such? Catholic answer that I usually hear is, we revere Mary because she is Jesus' mother. But that could be confusing because the kimd reverence we give to God can be extended to Mary, which could further mean that we respect Mary like a divine being? That's one major reason why some Catholics, are "practically" worshipping Mary despite their denial. That is also the reason why I hesitate becoming a catholic.
@@jingostarrsumatra4659 To be clear: Mary is human, not a god. When we speak of honouring Mary as Jesus's mother, we are hearkening back to the commandment that every person is to honour their father and mother, and we trust that as the perfect human (Jesus being the God-man Himself, fully God and fully man, perfect in every human virtue including the virtue of filial piety), Jesus perfectly lived out what it means to honour his mother. Even though she is a mere human, a mere creation in every way by nature subordinate to her Creator -- the Creator humbled himself to his creature first by becoming a baby in the arms of his created mother, and subjecting himself to the rule of his merely human, merely creaturely parents in their human household, before subjecting himself to the religious and political authorities who sent him to his cross. And he subjected himself to them without resentment, in a manifestation of his Divine humility. Part of the perfection of his humanity was in how perfectly he lived out being a son who truly honoured his human parents. Not just lip service that didn't involve his heart or mind, but true honour of his parents as only the God-man could perfectly do. (So this is why you'll often hear Catholics say that it's not _possible_ to honour Mary more than Jesus does, because Jesus honours her perfectly and we can never outdo him in honouring his mother; it's not meant to say we can't wrongfully do things that have nothing to do with honour-properly-understood and are actually sinful or something, but if we're talking about true and virtuous honouring? We can't overdo that, we can't outdo Jesus in the honour of son for mother that he embodies for Mary.)
And from the cross, Jesus gave his mother to us and called her our mother, so now we honour her as our mother too. There's more to discuss from there, but that's where I'd start, and also with the reminder for all of us that the fact that some people might go 'too far' in applying a _misunderstanding_ of _any_ Christian teaching, can't ever invalidate the reality of a teaching when its properly understood. Misunderstandings of teachings should only ever call us to better catechesis/learning and application of teachings properly understood, not to abandoning any element of truth just because some people misunderstand the truth.
You might benefit from Tim Staples' book, 'Behold Your Mother'? Or maybe from checking out free material about Mary from the Catholic Answers youtube channel or Catholic.com. But basically I just want to encourage you: what the Church really teaches about Mary is nothing to be afraid of, and becoming Catholic will _never_ require that you adopt some false belief that Mary is a god or anything like that. You are safe to continue to explore the Church and know that you will never be required to elevate a creature above the Creator (in fact you would be guilty if you did -- even if you see others who seem to be actually living out that failure). Cling to Jesus, and follow where he goes, and do what he says: That's the only thing Mary will ever point you to anyway, as she instructed the servants at the wedding at Cana. Mary always points us straight back to her son, as our Lord and hers. The fact that Jesus honours her as the perfect God-man obeying the commandment to honour his mother, and the fact that he gave her to be our mother from the cross, is a beautiful mystery to be unpacked perhaps across a lifetime -- but you don't actually have to start there by the way if it's difficult for you. I didn't begin to draw close to Mary until some time after entering the Church, and that's okay. For now just keep your eyes on her son, and maybe at most explore enough about Mary to learn that nothing about her should _prevent_ you from becoming Catholic? And don't force yourself to try to adopt any particular form of devotion related to her that feels totally alien or even blasphemous to you right now. The point is her Son, her Lord, our Lord, the Son of the Father. The Father is God: Mary is just a creature, albeit a creature honoured by the Son as part of his Divine condescension and humility, as part of subjecting himself in service to his creation. But God is God, and Mary isn't. Mary is just a creature, and the Church will never teach otherwise. And now I'm talking in circles and will just stop. But be not afraid :) There really is nothing 'wrong' about honouring Jesus' mother like he honoured her -- and no one will ask you to honour her _more_ than Jesus would honour her, and we wouldn't be capable of that anyway. Discussion about what honour should look like and comfort levels with different practices are a separate conversation, but that's basically the crux of it as far as I see.
@@caterinadc5567 i am replete with catholic narratives with regard to Mary (don't get me wrong on that, i have no intention to be rude). And my problem with that is there are lots of people who've been in the Church for so long, yet still failed to see the distinction between "honouring" and blatantly "worshipping". The ambiguity of such "honouring" is causing people to fall, and the fact that it's been happening for so long is telling us that Church authority is somehow ambivalent on correcting such mistake.
@@jingostarrsumatra4659 I appreciate that you're not trying to be rude! I also appreciate what sounds like your intuition that the Church hierarchy 'should' be more effective at publicly and persistently correcting the mistakes of her erring members. I actually share your starting intuition (and personally long for more clarity and manifest courage from those in teaching offices), so guess where I might see things a little differently is on a few other points... Here's the main one:
It strikes me that our intuition of what we 'should' be seeing from those in the Church hierarchy (clear and persistent pastoral corrections when lay members err) is more of a 'wouldn't it be nice' intuition, similar to how it 'would be nice' if Jesus just miraculously manifested himself to every human on earth at once, the way that many atheists say God 'should' do things if He really wants us to be Christian.
I think just like atheists are missing the mark when they claim that God 'should' do things according to their intuitions and if He doesn't, they're excused from belief, we'd be missing the mark to claim the Church 'should' do things according to our intuitions and if she doesn't, we're excused from belief. Jesus simply never promised to manifest himself to every human on earth at once in the way atheists might wistfully imagine, and Jesus simply never promised that his Church's members would be so personally impeccable that they'd make pastorally prudent choices persistently, in the way that we might wistfully imagine. Jesus never promised that becoming a priest would make a man such a perfect parent that he would never fail to be consistent with disciplining his children, would never be overwhelmed or distracted or even allowed to choose sin; Jesus never promised to take away the free will of the members of His Church to the point of His Church's members being immune to human temptations, frailties, or the consequences of our own self-permitted failures. Jesus empowers the Church through the Holy Spirit to preserve the deposit of faith and teach truthfully, yes: but what is promised is actually more limited than we often might wish, and is less coercive against our free will, and includes allowing us to deal with the consequences of our own personal/political/pastoral failures, more than we might think we'd prefer.
The truth is that of Jesus' handpicked apostles, one betrayed him to death, another denied him three times, and all but one were absent at the foot of the cross. If anything, this witness should only fill us with awe at the heroic deeds Church members often _do_ perform through the Holy Spirit -- not fill us with glumness when God allows us to see the reality of our human failings and ongoing need to cooperate with His graces. Yes, sometimes Church leaders fail to live up to the pastoral responsibilities of the teaching office with which they've been entrusted, and sometimes God allows those failures to have consequences... and that's a reason for us to pray for the souls of all those entrusted with the heavy burden of a teaching office, and to pray for the souls of those impacted by their pastoral failures.
I mean the truth also is, by the way, that the Church _has_ addressed excesses of Marian devotion, in a clear way. No one with internet access who honestly investigates the question can fail to learn what the Church actually teaches vs doesn't teach about Mary. So again, I don't think we can hold 'The Church' overall guilty for whatever small geographic regions may have lax overseers who fail to _persistently repeat_ and implement the teachings of the Church for those members of their local flock who persistently reject the actual teaching of the Church. And that's assuming their local clerics don't try to issue the corrections, and it's not just really stubborn individual laypeople determined to ignore legitimate authorities (in which case, what's your suggestion? Excommunication? I mean that does get used sometimes, but excommunication is a sort of side topic and ongoing debate between people who disagree about when that's the right medicine to use versus different medicine). Even if members of some regions broke away from the Church entirely and publicly and deliberately on some point, even if priests or bishops did so, that wouldn't invalidate the Church herself, only underline further how it's possible for each of us as individuals to reject the authority of the Church Christ gave us, to fall away. And it can only remind us of how minimal and specific the promises Jesus made us are, and how we have to continually go back to the root of it, go back to the basics of the Church he gave us, go back to the rock of Peter, the deposit of faith, and Jesus himself in the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist (and so on).
The politics of pastoral care and personal failures to be prudent in political/pastoral matters -- it's important, and honestly I get emotional about pastors who seem to fail to exercise their teaching authority in what seems to me like the best way. I look forward with hope to the day when our teachers remember their obligation of clarity, when they remember that the truth is what sets us all free, and stop being coy or shy with it under the impression that this may pastorally help anyone. But in the end, I have to attend to where Jesus has actually called me -- and in my day-to-day, this is His Church, and working out my own salvation with fear and trembling while a lay member of His Church. I am not myself a priest or bishop, and while I may have opinions (and there may be appropriate fora for expressing them), ultimately I believe at the final judgement I'll have to give account for what I did with what I was given... and I believe I've been given enough to know that Christ founded his Church on the rock of Peter and this is where I need to endure, to cling close to Christ. Even amidst the storms that are all the worse for any Church members (like Judas) being complicit in them. Whatever opinions I may express or whatever work I may do towards reform of the Church (if God seems to call me to that), I see no alternative to first submitting to the Church and being a member of her, to do whatever work God calls me to from within. I honestly believe I need the Church more than she needs me. She is the boat, the ark with which Christ saves us from the storm, the flood. So if God calls me to defend or otherwise support her, may I absolutely do so -- but may I do that from the inside, not imagine I can somehow do that from the outside. I need to receive from Christ first, before I can authentically communicate Christ to others. And while the Church may have her Judas's, she also has her bridegroom, Christ. So here I am. In the boat to be with Christ, not with Judas, even if Judas is here too. Letting Judas into his boat was Jesus's call, not mine, and I'm going to focus on how grateful I am that Jesus made the call to let me in too, rather than jumping out of the boat to get away from Judas (inherently getting away from Jesus when I leave the boat too). I can't think it's my calling to try to be Judas's judge (or the boat's judge on the basis of Judas being in it). Jesus is the judge, and I'll leave that to him, and just be thankful he let me into this hospital rather than judging the hospital for having sick people in it.
And with that final metaphor mixed in, I'll let you return to your morning. :) Sorry for the long-windedness! I hope something was fruitful there.
@@caterinadc5567 Having read all of your reply, it made me realize that being lax in reminding the laity is not the root cause of the excesses (Marian devotion), but the reasoning behind the identification of Mary's being does, which lacks clarity. I wanted to believe that you are going to agree with me that God's Church does not lead people to idolatry, which isn't entirely happening.
I, myself, on a journey toward either Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. I am spending next two years observing both churches. This year I am only spend time in a Roman Catholic church, and next year, I will spend time in the Orthodox church. I think you need to invite more Orthodox guest that are well verses to present their case too.
I was on the same journey and came to Roman Catholicism as I began to see the schism of 1054 as the first reformation and split from the true faith. Good luck on your journey and God Bless.
Praying for you and your journey!!🙏
Are you kidding bring him back. He made my phone overheat with all that fire thats coming out of his mouth ❤️🔥🙏✝️
Bless you both for such an incredible talk. This is so helpful.
And he must have a student called Gorge Aristotle.
Please have Alex Plato back on!!!! 🙏💕
44:20 this is actually an argument I've used cool to see someone like Alex find that reasoning persuasive as well
Most impactful interview I have seen in a long time. I have watched, listened to and read so many of the arguments that you normally don't run into anything impactful but Dr. Plato really has an approach to how we judge truth that stimulated so many more thoughts.
Yes, please bring him back and don’t wait.
Yes, id love hear more from him! Watching from Kenya
Yes! Have Dr. Plato back!! ❤️🙏 God bless you and protect you brother in Christ!
Yes! Bring Dr. Plato back! Say more! 😁🙏🤍
Yes, I would love to have Dr. Plato back on to talk about Pascal's wager and Catholicism!
Yes, I would love to hear more from Dr. Alex Plato!
I'm agnostic on (re)converting to Roman Catholicism or staying at my non-denominational/ Pentecostal church. Before, I was completely against Catholicism due to poor examples of the faith practiced at my childhood church. Now, I'm open to it due to these dialogues on your channel and Gospel Simplicity channel. I'm willing to denounce my current faith if the Catholic Church is true, but if it isn't true I can finally put this to rest, and continue this journey through Protestantism.
My friend, I was similar to you. Baptized Catholic, but was atheist for much of my youth. Later I attended and participated in a wonderful Presbyterian church. I deeply loved my Protestant church; however, what ultimately brought me back to Catholicism was the Eucharist. I still had many questions about the Catholicism, but after I became convinced that Jesus’ divine presence was in the sacrament, I reasoned that it would be impossible for Jesus to be fully present, yet be surrounded by theological error; therefore, I put my trust in Catholic doctrine. Best decision I ever made. If Jesus is present somewhere, where else in the universe should a Christian be?
@@Serquss How did the Eucharist bring you to Catholicism, when the Orthodox also have the sacraments?
Yes, I would love to see Dr. Plato again
Please invite him again. Great interview!!
Also, please consider to invite Dr. Brant Pitre.
God bless you!
Yes, more Dr. Plato
Yes, it would be wonderful to see Dr Plato regularly in your show. It is obvious that we have barely scratched the surface of the depth of his insights into the truths of the Faith. He is a brilliant mind.
What a great interview
Please bring Plato back to the show! The part on the teaching authority blew my mind. Most Christians accept the first councils. In the Orthodox Church the teaching authority has been “on pause” since 787. But heresies and the need to respond to them have not ended in 787 after Christ. Why has the Orthodox’s Church teaching authority been “on pause” since then? Because the Orthodox Church sadly severed the ties with the successor of Peter. In the Catholic Church the living teaching authority is alive and well.
In 787 you had the second council of Nicea, the last of the first seven councils.
@YAJUN YUAN Yes...The Church's take on inventions like cloning, in vitro fertilization etc..It could also be unprecedented social issues..
Exactly!
I think the Orthodox would still hold that they have an infallible teaching body, even from 787 on. They don't have the Magisterium but I think that still, the Ecumenical Patriarch and other Patriarchs have an authoritative power in matter of Faith and morals
@@giacomofilosofia That's a good point, thanks! To me it seems, though, the fact of the "lacking" councils remains striking. In 2016 an attempt at a pan-Orthodox council was made, but the Russian Orthodox Church pulled out and the Orthodox Churches of Antioch, Bulgaria, Georgia and America all did not participate...
Yes! Have this man back on!
Beautiful. Bring him back. Glory to God. Thank you Holy Spirit, my lovely.
This guy (Plato) is great! I loved hearing him talk. A real truth-seeker who has had quite a journey - and he explains things so well.
Yes I would love to have him back!
Love to see you interview a person who left Roman Catholicism to Protestantism.
Cameron, I really enjoyed Dr. Plato. The quotes from Gerald Manley Hopkins were a powerful evidence of how the Holy Spirit leads people to Jesus and His Church. Loved it.
The Hopkins quote brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing.
This was really interesting and thought provoking! Ultimately, it seems like he decided to trust that God has revealed additional doctrines to the leaders in the Catholic church and he decided to trust these human teachers even though it went against what he personally saw in scripture or could personally be convinced of himself. This seems similar to the Gnostic claims that we need to trust some anointed one(s) to teach us (contra 1 John 2:26 - 27). I say this carefully, because I can't know his heart, but, also, at least when it comes to the overall revelation God has provided to humans, it feels like he transferred his trust from being centered in Christ alone to being centered on these human leaders/organization.
When I read the New Testament, it seems clear that the apostles were writing these things down so that we would believe in Christ and find life in Christ (for example, John 20:31).
Dr. Plato made the same choice that the early church had to make. Before the Bible canon was created and printed on paper, people had teachers (apostle - bishops) and were told in epistles to hold fast to the traditions that were taught to them by word of mouth or by letter. Jesus breathed on them, their teachings became God breathed, just like the scriptures. In charity and in Christ.
@@bevious Respectfully, it's not the same at all. The early believers did not have to decide between following the traditions of the church or following doctrines that contradict those earliest traditions and teachings.
I think he was more saying should I trust in myself and what my peers believe or what the teaching authority that the Catholic Church believes that has 2000 years of prayer, discernment, and studying to interpret scripture. Both claimed to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit. So it’s his own understanding vs the 2000 years of understanding of the Catholic Church.
My favorite professor at Franciscan, wish I got to take more classes from him.
Yes, bring him back!
I am a truth-seeking Protestant, historically oriented. I am sorry to say that, but I was disappointed in this interview because I expected something more from an intellectual with such an education. While I am not persuaded by the arguments from Catholic Answers, they at least have some, though little, capacity to convince some people. Meanwhile, in the case of Dr. Plato, we were dealing primarily with ought-is fallacy: "We seem to need an infallible Magisterium, so the infallible Magisterium exists and functions in the Roman Church.".
Authority was given to the church by Jesus himself, not sola scriptura false doctrine i.e. personal opinion of the bible.
Jordan Peterson is another good guest to have. Jordan has hesitancy to convert to Christianity. He is going on a spiritual journey as well.
It would be nice to have Jordan Peterson, Bishop Robert Barron, and Alex Plato to have discussion in your show for 3 hours.
Yes please! Have Dr. Plato back on ur channel! ❤️
Have him back, absolutely great interview. He had a lot of very good points.
God's blessings upon you and your spiritual journey, Cameron.
While I am a recent convert to Catholicism myself, having been seriously considering Eastern Orthodoxy for awhile, I would like to gently push back against Plato's case for Catholicism.
Eastern Orthodoxy does have an active and living magisterium capable of making decisive rulings of faith over the laity, however, this magisterial rule is done completely on a local level rather than on a universal level, differentlty from the ecumenical councils. There can be and have been Eastern Orthodox councils that have taken place even after the great schism of 1054 (just that these councils are only recognized on a local level, as far as I am aware), where certain regions have come together for instance in order to anathematize the teachings that were put forward during the first Vatican Council, regarding the infallibility of papal teaching.
His argument that there can no longer be broader ecumenical councils that take place given their disunity with the Roman Bishop is presuming a Catholic paradigm rather than an Eastern Orthodox one, for, to the Eastern Orthodox, unity with Rome is unnecessary to congregate ecumenically, since they understand the Roman Church to have fallen into heresy and to no longer be part of God's one true church. Now, I disagree of course, since I'm Catholic, but this is the way that the Eastern Orthodox would understand things. Within the East, the bishop of Rome never played such a prominent role in the bringing together of ecumenical councils, rather, from the Eastern perspective, whatever political governing body that is in authority at that point in time would be given the responsibility of forming a council during a time of disagreement between various churches, to where it was basically up to the emperor to bring the churches together in order to settle these sorts of disputes. Theoretically, under the Eastern Orthodox paradigm, another ecunemical council could still take place in our modern age if some other significant governing body felt required to initiate a council, someone like the United Nations or something like that. Now, I find that highly unlikely to ever take place, which is why I think that a head bishop of the church is necessary in order to affirm and establish councils as being legitimate, but I just wanted to press back against Plato's case to make the point that the Eastern Orthodox Church can and could very well still make economical rulings of faith over the Christian community, if ever it were the case that the church needed this to happen.
"Eastern Orthodoxy does have an active and living magisterium capable of making decisive rulings of faith over the laity, however, this magisterial rule is done completely on a local level rather than on a universal level, differentlty from the ecumenical councils. "
The role of individual bishops is not that of Magisterium. Local bishops can make practical decisions for how to best live out the faith (like how often should we fast? how strictly? when do we confirm the kids? etc.), but just logically speaking, let alone scripturally, they have NO authority to determine faith and doctrine.
Otherwise you get the insanity that the Eastern Orthodox have, where some bishops reject contraception entirely (and then some), while others completely allow it, and many in-between. All saying their views are doctrinal.
If you lived in Orthodox countries you'd see their situation is pretty dire.