@@andreaghiretti8189 You say that, but I won an extremely similar battle yesterday (actually, it might have been a little worse) and the most important part of the battle was holding 3/4 of the wall to use piercing towers to hit the marauder champions on their way in, then use halberd infantry to kill monsters as they reach the capture points. I kept most of my force on the wall for the entire battle, and I didn't even have the rocket towers.
@@honorguard7616 That would just make walls less viable to hold. Which isn't great. YOu want walls to be good to hold with races that have ranged units. Melee factions obviously shouldn't hold walls as much. Or low range units, but warhammer 2 was good with holding walls. Warhammer 3 you are better off without walls in most cases, tier 3 garrison building in minor settlements is just a waste of gold to build. which is kinda sad to me. I build that in a settlement before I realized it was bad to do, but I was attacked before it finished, beat down 2 nurgle armies and 3 norsca armies at the same time, Think you can only fight 3 armies though so I think it was 1 nurgle 2 norsca in the actual fight. Had a lord stationed so unchecked large army as well. Which can bug out so you only get 1 unit at a time instead of it keeping 20 at all time, which did happen to me that fight. so it was pretty much a stomp. Next turn my walls finished and they attacked me again and I lost horribly against roughly the same army because the walled settlement had no good place to turtle down. and holding walls are only possible if you out number your enemies greatly or can hold them there. Kislev cannot do that with a garrison.
@@GLUFSAREN Call my confusion,this would make them more viable to hold,it makes attacking the walls without siege towers slower and more difficult (So you get guys up slower and more tired offensively and the defense can have monsterous infantry and such on the wall)
I just can't believe Soren Kalsarikannit is an actual name in the game. It's so incredibly funny. Finnish lore for those who aren't familiar with it; Kalsarikännit is a term coined in Finland for drinking alcohol at home, preferably alone, and in your underwear, with no intention of going out or doing anything but getting drunk. I like translating it to pantsdrunk.
this is exactly like my experience playing aoe1 when i was a kid. i tried walling everything or playing properly but just got overwhelmed o harder difficulties, but as soon is a started leaving gaps, the ai would gun it for the opening ignoring everything else. basically turned the game into a tower defense, i just made mazes for days and killed them in the meat grinder lol
The jank tower positions seem like they were made for turrets other than these generic ones that are used by every faction. It's like Cathay was meant to have taller ones that could shoot over all the roofs around them, but then later on it got changed to these generic ones that every single factions builds
It really seems that way, and it's a crying shame that every faction has the same buildable towers aesthetically. It feels super lazy to just copy paste every tower no matter what faction you're playing.
@@theonesithtorulethemall I would've settled for them to just look thematic but no they all look the same. Guess mods are going to have to fix that as well..
All I can think watching this is how ridiculous it is that enemy units rout to tactically advantageous positions. Like you're smashing them, and then suddenly they're capping points because they just rout back into the city
god i fucking hate this shit, especially those gawd damn trolls who can route and then go through barricades. Only to regen healthy and therefore recover their morale and basically flank or disrupt your backline its soo stupid.
One of the problems with these walled settlements is how close the enemy gets to deploy. You get at most 60 seconds to utilize the walls before even basic infantry gets there. Just have them spawn much closer to the other end of the map, it's immersion-breaking to assume that they could just walk up that close to the city before you would start firing your towers. You should have to bring an overwhelming force to win a siege and changing this would be a good step in the right direction.
I think its the Layout, the fort helmgard had the best Layout in warhammer 2, since the garision culd actually defend it, while in 3, the bastion especaly screams second army please
To be fair, you can reduce upkeep for a stationary army up to 65%, so it’s not meant to be an easy defense with just the garrison, you shall always have an army deployed there as long as you didn’t capture the steppe
@@harrytan5579 bro, in my cathay campaign all my gates have one full high end army in garrison plus the local garrison. Once you build the upkeep reduction building in the gates then those armies cost barely anything and you just let them sit there to recieve upkeep bonus and easily auto resolve all the siege. If one gate is overwhelmed, the other defend forces are within force march distances to reinforce
If it helps, from my experience you lose the rocket towers once you upgrade past T3. However I feel it’s worth it to upgrade anyway because of the upkeep reduction building that just lets you garrison whole armies for a pittance. They can chill and defend the walls and then you have the option to send them out to deal with rifts that pop up if you don’t want to use a hero action. But like really, even if it’s just some peasant chaff keep those walls fully garrisoned with upkeep reduction and you’ll never have a problem here.
You could also park other armies in the area behind the gates to deal with portals and just move them back, since the upkeep-reduction works for the province, not just garrisond armies. So camping full stacks of dragon guard cost pennys to maintain.
@@randomnames404 oh that’s awesome! Gonna keep it in mind next time I’m playing Cathay. Turn the walls into some sort of terracotta sentinel parking lot.
I literally had 2 full stacks in each gate with mostly celestial dragon guards/crossbows and Terrocata Sentinels. Kurgan were a joke when I could do that. Half the time it'd even let me autoresolve on Very Hard with minimal casualties with 2-3 stack attacks. Only ones I ever had to worry about were the initial ones before the gates were built up.
@@randomnames404 use heroes for that instead. I had a full stack in each Gate with a hero in all of them, so that they can all go close rifts as needed
@@theodemir1953 It's 100% better to use armies to close rifts if available. Closing a rift with an army gives you easy experience on the army and easy money. Closing it with a hero costs money and gives no experience. That "if available" is important though. It's much easier to park a hero by each rift site in your empire than it is to park an army large enough to clear them. I keep some spare armies in the bastion and then send them to kill nearby rifts, but use heroes for ones far away in my empire.
I honestly think they should just remove the tickets mechanic, especially in campaign, and make it so that losing points simply lowers your armies morale, which makes sense. And if you lose the main point you should start to suffer massive leadership penalties so that only the unbreakable and super morale strong units keep fighting
Have it be like only having flying units where it's a gradually increasing leadership debuff if you're defending and don't have any of the critical points
Yeah either this, or just make only one of the points lose you the game. I'd be okay if there were two points like this, but one of them if lost should give you some debuffs or perhaps remove buffs that you get from holding it (which makes better sense to me) and the other one if lost will behave exactly like now - give you a countdown to recap it or you lose the battle. Having two points that each make you lose the battle is just stupid as fuck. Yeah the people from WH2 team had nothing to do with this game and it fucking shows.. These people never played WH before and you can really tell that they had no idea what the were doing.. Just look at the two towers from this settlement, the completely useless traits and techs and the whole god awful RoC campaign. The game is fun but there is literally not a single good thing to say about the mechanics of RoC campaign.
Or just get rid of the points completely. I get it, its there to preven kiting chese, but being able to cheese a siege is less of a problem than siege being shit because capture points ruin it.
Looks like a waste to have a lord sitting in a bastion gate without a couple of field artillery units or a sky junk. Rocket batteries can directly fire into the reinforcement spawn point.
@@BenHyle in ham2 there's a mod for the dwarves that has engineers with the ability to construct trenches an barricades plus siege weapon right on the battle field... I use to protect against a flank with the intention to funnel troops into a kill zone
I really really like the fact that you can funnel the AI down certain paths, if you barricade spots before the battle starts. I think it's unintended by CA, but it's a fun feature to be able to create a strategic advantage and a powerful defense.
@@Soeeasy Yeah from a realism point of view it's dumb. But it allows your garrisons to be able to defend themselves, instead of needing an additional 20 stack army stationed there to be able to defend anything.
@@kaptajnklo5341 Also, sieges already make no sense from a realism point of view. The average major settlement garrison should be MUCH larger. It should be mostly chaff, but it should be huge; a settlement should be full of people who may not have much military experience or training, but could be given arms and willing to defend the city. A fort like this may be different. It wouldn't have a large standing population to defend, so it makes sense that you would need to pay extra to give it a large garrison (via a standing army). However, the sole purpose of the "city" is to defend. You shouldn't need to build barricades to funnel them a certain way in the first place. They should already be funneled by the design of the fort, because that is it's *entire* purpose. So yeah, barricades should not funnel enemies the way they do. But it's one unrealistic element that balances out other unrealistic elements to make the game enjoyable, so I'm fine with it.
Saying those towers suck is a massive understatement, the entire layout of the bastions is moronic as it’s not designed to funnel enemy forces or maximise kill zones which considering the bastions entire purpose is to defend and not finance the Grand Cathay it’s design really is awful, most of the ornate buildings etc should be behind the huge ass wall behind it.
@@adriankoch964 Well that was my initial thought too, but you have to remember that they are being built in the middle of a battle...which doesn't really make sense that an army would be able to do that, but if they could then the architecture would certainly be very plain.
@@rovers141 you’d think that you wouldn’t be able to build during a siege, but it was done in medieval Europe. Though to be fair, rolling up and building siege equipment usually meant they’d surrender. Building and rebuilding the walls, defenses, and town inside was crazy expensive. As a result most sieges never fired a shot. Even in modern armies there are combat engineers building all manner of structures even under combat. So it’s only a little on the edge. But magic is in the world, so we can handwave a little. ;)
@@loowick4074 I'm waiting for a standalone DLC for the new tower factions where there will tower cavalary and customizable tower mounts for other small towers.
I personally find the walls helpful, even in minor settlements. They allow more time to build towers inside the settlement and if you send out cavalry or flying units to distract the attackers the wall towers can do a lot more damage. Legend's tactic against Skarbrand was a perfect example.
I saw norscan and bastion, and settled in for brutality. The number of towers that the two main points hold lets you do a defense in depth that absolutely wrecks.
With the unit experience, if they gain a chevron in battle you can’t see what effect it has until you either go to the campaign map or load up the next battle.
I would love a statistic for tower damage at the end battle screen, I would love to know exactly which tower did what, but that's probably too big an ask, instead i'd settle for just tower damage/kills
Awesome. I'll certainly be planting barricades pre battle if it disables their pathing options then. I was fighting in the sides previously and it's trickier to hold two approaches than 1 for sure
The great bastion settlements are actually quite easy to defend. Once you upgrade them, you can station a pretty decent army in each of them for real cheap, without considering that level 5 bastions will have an actually great garrison by themselves. Wall towers and buildable towers do work super well too, you can kill 2/3 full units before they even reach the wall, plus camping in the main battle point, close to the two huge pillars, will make it relatively easy to defend your units from incoming waves.
The norscan general is Soren Kalsarikannit - "kalsarikännit, is a form of drinking culture, originating in Finland, in which the drinker consumes alcoholic drinks at home, dressed in as little clothing as possible, mainly in underwear with no intention of going out." Well played, CA
Iirc there is a line in the DB that determines how long projectiles are immune to collision after spawning. So the towers can maybe still shoot in some directions from there. The projectiles will move through the walls. While protecting it from retaliatory fire
18:56 Guys, did you notice how this formation on units, which was turned off previously manually by Legend, is turned on? Always that crap in battles, what a heck is going on in this game?
Cathay is the only faction to have Formation attack in WH3 and it's on by Default. In Rome 2 it was generally a good thing for a unit to have formation attack but not this case
@@Wolfspaule There are no more superchats from me, YT aborted this feature from my country. I know it is might seems funny, but it is actually not, dude. Not just because of superchats, but mostly because shitstorm that's coming for us
Hello. I am a Total War Warhammer fan, been an avid player since Warhammer I came out, and have continued on up to Warhammer III. I just wanted to take some time to commend you on a few comments on stream you did when you spoke so passionately, and so energetic about the current state of Warhammer III that I couldn't help but show my support and admiration towards you and your work. I have faith that the game will eventually get fixed in terms of bugs, optimization, campaign and more. I remember something similar ocurring with Warhammer II and it managed to rise above our expectations. Meanwhile, all of us who love these games must raise our voices to CA and ask them, with the same amount of passion and love that you have shown to fix all these errors that have showing up. Optimization, bugs, gameplay and unit errors.... all so that this game that we love continues to grow and expand just as Warhammer II did. Tonight I finally finished an Ogre Kingdoms campaign on normal and, honestly, i loved every minute of it, and i can't wait to finish it again with all races and new DLC races, especially chaos dwarfs. I don't want this game to die; the more i play the more I find something new that brings me joy, and i'm sure i'm not alone in this. We must all raise our voice and ask CA to please fix all these issues so that we can all enjoy this game to its fullest potential. Sorry for the ramble, but I feel Legend here has spoken on behalf of everyone who loves these games, and so I send him my deepest gratitude all the way from Spain for voicing our concerns. Thank you, and happy gaming.
I feel like the reason the Ai doesn't break down barricades is before the battle begins it does quick checkups on what the best moves would be for each unit it has, so when the battle starts it'll execute it no matter the obstacle put there afterword, but make an obstacle before the battle and the ai will work around what it believes to be the path of least resistance, at least in terms of movement wise, I feel like its incredibly similar to how the ai works with rimworld and raids.
I think some defender buildings should have some small squad ranged attack groups. Like the tall city towers here could have a group of 10 crossbow units that constantly fire until the enemy gets close in the city, then they run. Like the quality to garrison buildings. When mortal empires comes out, imagine a shaven settlement. Without any upgrades it could just have some slingers. With full upgrades some rattling gunners could be stationed watching main streets.
It Worked !!!!!!!!! I used this method on a 1v4 and it worded :-D thx a lot M. Legend :-D it really save my mental health xD (was quite mad at this game cause of 4v1 without the opportunity of beeing prepared)
Soren Kalsarikannit is leading one of the Kurgan armies. Kalsarikännit (Finnish) = The feeling when you are going to get drunk home alone in your underwear - with no intention of going out. 10/10
Kind of reminds me of a defensive siege battle I had in Medieval 2. The walls were already breached in 1 spot, and the army I had there was severely depleted after a previous siege battle. However, this time, since there was already a hole in the wall, the AI just bum rushed it, and some spear dudes held the breach while a couple of depleted peasant archers just slaughtered the whole AI army. Super, super weird battle. I think I had 2 fresh units of some type of spearmen that could do the Schiltron formation, and a handful of depleted dismounted knights, a depleted generals bodyguard and as said, a few depleted peasant archers. Never thought I'd win it, but I played it anyway because I thought I'd do a better job than auto.
Openimg the gate and baiting the AI imto a U of spikes, whilst shooting them in the back from the walls is the classic siege defence strategy vs AI. CA never managed to make the AI understand strongpoints it would be better off circumventing in siege. Shame too, flank and rear charges worked suprising ly well.with the AI in field battles in M2.
This is like the old days in medieval 2, aslong as you kept motte and bailey with the wooden walls no one could climb or get in, they knock the walls down thwn you place one unit of a phalanx and bam the whole army loses in one hole in a wall lol.
Could have used some of those spare winds on the Yin slowing spell on the mammoths while they passed by the celestial crossbows. Slower speed would've improved accuracy so more DPS, more time in close range improves accuracy and so even more DPS, and more time in range total I think it would have been worth the winds.
@LegendofTotalWar i jusr found out that you can put up to 3 missile/archer units facing the same way on top of gates, you drag them in to tighter colums. really makes it more fun to use the walls/gates :) love from Sweden
honestly every saving your disaster siege video just convinces me they need to do a major rework of towers, literally just made the problem worse instead of fixing one of the main problems in the total war franchise
Btw Legend, disabling formation attack makes Cathay melee units perform about 10% better. Formation attack also ruins their mass. Funnily enough guard mode works just as well as it always did.
Hey Legend! Hope you doing fine while enjoying the Break from streaming. Just in Case you havent Heard about it yet, CA made a Post, telling they Change the Main Campaign based on Feedbacks! Hope to see the cheese for the cheese God again soon enough. In the meantime i enioy your Videos. That Chinese Dude on the Thumbnail is top Tier btw 😂
The great wall of China kept Mongolians till a defector with the the knowledge of trebuchet an rockets they where able to breach the walls but what they did is go around where the walls end an ransacked every town zn got bribed to leave
That one lord at 16:12 is called Soren Kalsarikannit. Literal translation for Kalsarikannit (or kännit) from Finnish is underpants drunk or something of that nature. It's when you stay at home drinking alone in your underpants. Very common saying here and I wonder how it got into the game.
A ton of names are foreign puns or things like that, lizardmen have a ton of Dutch names for lords/heroes and the wood Elves near the empire in TWW3 is called Ellendeling which roughly translates to miserable person. Gives me a chuckle every time
This is essentially playing a TD (tower defense) game; minimal micro, just strategically set up points and watch the fodder go through the meat grinder.
I tried this with a larger army but lower quality (peasant stack with 2 tera cotta since I got an event that made recruitment of terra cotta cheap a few turns earlier). But Tzeentch was attacking so his chaos furries took the walls after I killed most of the Norscans. And my settlement was low leveled because I'd just retaken it a few turns back and on VH it takes forever for settlements to start gaining growth again. Therefore my towers didn't have the explosive damage of these ones. I lost badly XD, this is bad since Miao Ying is further East and I just lost a lot because I fought a settlement battle poorly. I basically need my Caravan army to arrive at it's stop next turn and for Miao Ying to head back so I can get her to one by one pick off these 2 armies and the new ones that are about to flood in.
Actually, you don't really need to defend the right flank and left flank in that choke point. You only need to stack all your spearmans defending the edge between main road and victory point. A bit risky but totally worth trying.
Once again, i think you save me xD I'm again 4 armies and Tier 3 or 4 garnison... no idea how to win this... i just search if you did a Bastion disaster battle... and... i'm ganna try this right now !!!!!! :-D
I had a similar battle except I had a lord and 2 terracotta warriors and it was a tier 5 settlement. Unfortunately I was up against 4 armies and made it through the first 3 but wiped on the last 1
The beauty of newest TW game. Units shooting through the walls, enemy ignoring everything and just pushing to capture points, useless towers and formation that makes units weaker.
Legend of total war using the walls why I never thought I’d see the day
Yeah i dont get it hes not even uising them to warpbomb a high tier infantry right out of siege tower. Is he ill?!?!?!?
Its not the walls are good now, its the double point necessary to win that took away the turtling option.
Depends on the race... or more importantly their towers. As skaven, he did it too since they get pretty god towers.
@@andreaghiretti8189 You say that, but I won an extremely similar battle yesterday (actually, it might have been a little worse) and the most important part of the battle was holding 3/4 of the wall to use piercing towers to hit the marauder champions on their way in, then use halberd infantry to kill monsters as they reach the capture points. I kept most of my force on the wall for the entire battle, and I didn't even have the rocket towers.
HOLDING THE WALLS IS ACTUALLY QUITE VIABLE
we've come to the point in Warhammer history when this statement provokes a few raised brows.
i think total war history, its been a while since this was the case
Solution to improve ; make ladders far slower and more tiring to the troops
Allow monster inf on walls as well
@@honorguard7616 That would just make walls less viable to hold. Which isn't great. YOu want walls to be good to hold with races that have ranged units.
Melee factions obviously shouldn't hold walls as much. Or low range units, but warhammer 2 was good with holding walls. Warhammer 3 you are better off without walls in most cases, tier 3 garrison building in minor settlements is just a waste of gold to build. which is kinda sad to me.
I build that in a settlement before I realized it was bad to do, but I was attacked before it finished, beat down 2 nurgle armies and 3 norsca armies at the same time,
Think you can only fight 3 armies though so I think it was 1 nurgle 2 norsca in the actual fight.
Had a lord stationed so unchecked large army as well. Which can bug out so you only get 1 unit at a time instead of it keeping 20 at all time, which did happen to me that fight. so it was pretty much a stomp.
Next turn my walls finished and they attacked me again and I lost horribly against roughly the same army because the walled settlement had no good place to turtle down.
and holding walls are only possible if you out number your enemies greatly or can hold them there. Kislev cannot do that with a garrison.
Is it "holding" if in truth you just let the enemy move over and past them? It's not that it was fighting in it, it was just keeping the towers.
@@GLUFSAREN Call my confusion,this would make them more viable to hold,it makes attacking the walls without siege towers slower and more difficult (So you get guys up slower and more tired offensively and the defense can have monsterous infantry and such on the wall)
I've always loved the fact that garrison units retain their experience.
Prawda
Since medieval 2
I just can't believe Soren Kalsarikannit is an actual name in the game. It's so incredibly funny.
Finnish lore for those who aren't familiar with it; Kalsarikännit is a term coined in Finland for drinking alcohol at home, preferably alone, and in your underwear, with no intention of going out or doing anything but getting drunk. I like translating it to pantsdrunk.
Now that's a good loredump
A most profoundly Finnish way to party; straight to alcohol coma with no need for superfluous social interaction.
classic GW tradition of creating joke names that sound legit. There's an ork in 40k who's name is a pun of Margaret Thatcher.
i mean we have cavill the elf, sporctacus, losteriksson Du Kul (sounds like losteriksson from ass in french) and many others i can't remember
LMAO
this is exactly like my experience playing aoe1 when i was a kid. i tried walling everything or playing properly but just got overwhelmed o harder difficulties, but as soon is a started leaving gaps, the ai would gun it for the opening ignoring everything else. basically turned the game into a tower defense, i just made mazes for days and killed them in the meat grinder lol
reminds me of age of mythology.
@@artolaganus Same, just built wall mazes with tons of towers every time xD
Nice strat, Id do the same in aoe3 with a bunch of artillery blasting everyone, so fun
@@artolaganus Yess, AoM was so fun!
Hahahaha nice, great story
The jank tower positions seem like they were made for turrets other than these generic ones that are used by every faction. It's like Cathay was meant to have taller ones that could shoot over all the roofs around them, but then later on it got changed to these generic ones that every single factions builds
It really seems that way, and it's a crying shame that every faction has the same buildable towers aesthetically. It feels super lazy to just copy paste every tower no matter what faction you're playing.
@@vigil2150 " It feels super lazy" could describe most of WH3 atm. Right next to "it feels like whoever thought this was a good idea is a idiot"
@@unyieldingsarcasm2505 Definitely...
@@vigil2150 if they atleast looked cool...
@@theonesithtorulethemall I would've settled for them to just look thematic but no they all look the same. Guess mods are going to have to fix that as well..
By Sigmar! Tariffs video was right, Norscans really can’t comprehend walls.
Yup
All I can think watching this is how ridiculous it is that enemy units rout to tactically advantageous positions.
Like you're smashing them, and then suddenly they're capping points because they just rout back into the city
god i fucking hate this shit, especially those gawd damn trolls who can route and then go through barricades. Only to regen healthy and therefore recover their morale and basically flank or disrupt your backline its soo stupid.
Reminds me off one of Tariff's skits. The Norscans cant ~see~ the walls, therefore they just run to the one thing they can see, the killbox!
Haha dude that's hilarious
One of the problems with these walled settlements is how close the enemy gets to deploy. You get at most 60 seconds to utilize the walls before even basic infantry gets there. Just have them spawn much closer to the other end of the map, it's immersion-breaking to assume that they could just walk up that close to the city before you would start firing your towers. You should have to bring an overwhelming force to win a siege and changing this would be a good step in the right direction.
I think its the Layout, the fort helmgard had the best Layout in warhammer 2, since the garision culd actually defend it, while in 3, the bastion especaly screams second army please
To be fair, you can reduce upkeep for a stationary army up to 65%, so it’s not meant to be an easy defense with just the garrison, you shall always have an army deployed there as long as you didn’t capture the steppe
Player faction can't afford using two armies for every siege.
@@harrytan5579 you are wrong Mister, with 4% increase in upkeep instead of 15%, you can aford more armys without a Problem.
@@harrytan5579 bro, in my cathay campaign all my gates have one full high end army in garrison plus the local garrison. Once you build the upkeep reduction building in the gates then those armies cost barely anything and you just let them sit there to recieve upkeep bonus and easily auto resolve all the siege. If one gate is overwhelmed, the other defend forces are within force march distances to reinforce
If it helps, from my experience you lose the rocket towers once you upgrade past T3. However I feel it’s worth it to upgrade anyway because of the upkeep reduction building that just lets you garrison whole armies for a pittance. They can chill and defend the walls and then you have the option to send them out to deal with rifts that pop up if you don’t want to use a hero action. But like really, even if it’s just some peasant chaff keep those walls fully garrisoned with upkeep reduction and you’ll never have a problem here.
You could also park other armies in the area behind the gates to deal with portals and just move them back, since the upkeep-reduction works for the province, not just garrisond armies.
So camping full stacks of dragon guard cost pennys to maintain.
@@randomnames404 oh that’s awesome! Gonna keep it in mind next time I’m playing Cathay. Turn the walls into some sort of terracotta sentinel parking lot.
I literally had 2 full stacks in each gate with mostly celestial dragon guards/crossbows and Terrocata Sentinels. Kurgan were a joke when I could do that. Half the time it'd even let me autoresolve on Very Hard with minimal casualties with 2-3 stack attacks. Only ones I ever had to worry about were the initial ones before the gates were built up.
@@randomnames404 use heroes for that instead. I had a full stack in each Gate with a hero in all of them, so that they can all go close rifts as needed
@@theodemir1953 It's 100% better to use armies to close rifts if available. Closing a rift with an army gives you easy experience on the army and easy money. Closing it with a hero costs money and gives no experience. That "if available" is important though. It's much easier to park a hero by each rift site in your empire than it is to park an army large enough to clear them. I keep some spare armies in the bastion and then send them to kill nearby rifts, but use heroes for ones far away in my empire.
Barricade is a wall and Norscans can’t sense the presence of the wall.
I honestly think they should just remove the tickets mechanic, especially in campaign, and make it so that losing points simply lowers your armies morale, which makes sense. And if you lose the main point you should start to suffer massive leadership penalties so that only the unbreakable and super morale strong units keep fighting
Have it be like only having flying units where it's a gradually increasing leadership debuff if you're defending and don't have any of the critical points
The tickets mechanic was nice when I had some enemy spawn get stuck in terrain and become unreachable. Had no other way to win the battle.
Yeah I wish it was that for domination MP too, rather than a sudden win against unrouted enemy units
Yeah either this, or just make only one of the points lose you the game. I'd be okay if there were two points like this, but one of them if lost should give you some debuffs or perhaps remove buffs that you get from holding it (which makes better sense to me) and the other one if lost will behave exactly like now - give you a countdown to recap it or you lose the battle.
Having two points that each make you lose the battle is just stupid as fuck. Yeah the people from WH2 team had nothing to do with this game and it fucking shows.. These people never played WH before and you can really tell that they had no idea what the were doing.. Just look at the two towers from this settlement, the completely useless traits and techs and the whole god awful RoC campaign. The game is fun but there is literally not a single good thing to say about the mechanics of RoC campaign.
Or just get rid of the points completely. I get it, its there to preven kiting chese, but being able to cheese a siege is less of a problem than siege being shit because capture points ruin it.
Shout-out to the automatic subtitles calling Norscan War hounds North Korean War hounds.
I thought the Great Bastion was meant to mirror the great Wall of China, turns out it's the Korean DMZ
No monkey allowed- Yao Ming
These new disaster battles are such good entertainment. Great stuff Legend!
Looks like a waste to have a lord sitting in a bastion gate without a couple of field artillery units or a sky junk. Rocket batteries can directly fire into the reinforcement spawn point.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have barricades an traps set up to funnel them outside the gates.. not inside the city lol
@@SomeIdiotLUL you've got a thousand soldiers there, not digging ditches. Dig some ditches!
@@BenHyle in ham2 there's a mod for the dwarves that has engineers with the ability to construct trenches an barricades plus siege weapon right on the battle field... I use to protect against a flank with the intention to funnel troops into a kill zone
It was my campaign. I lost the battle many times and tried to revert to a older auto save and beat it by recruting a lord.
@@BenHyle This comment killed me, I just re-watched those videos a few days ago.
I really really like the fact that you can funnel the AI down certain paths, if you barricade spots before the battle starts. I think it's unintended by CA, but it's a fun feature to be able to create a strategic advantage and a powerful defense.
Yeah, cuz otherwise theres 6 paths you must defend, which is too many to hold when the enemy has 4x the numbers
What do you mean it's dumb
@@Soeeasy Yeah from a realism point of view it's dumb. But it allows your garrisons to be able to defend themselves, instead of needing an additional 20 stack army stationed there to be able to defend anything.
@@kaptajnklo5341 Also, sieges already make no sense from a realism point of view.
The average major settlement garrison should be MUCH larger. It should be mostly chaff, but it should be huge; a settlement should be full of people who may not have much military experience or training, but could be given arms and willing to defend the city.
A fort like this may be different. It wouldn't have a large standing population to defend, so it makes sense that you would need to pay extra to give it a large garrison (via a standing army). However, the sole purpose of the "city" is to defend. You shouldn't need to build barricades to funnel them a certain way in the first place. They should already be funneled by the design of the fort, because that is it's *entire* purpose.
So yeah, barricades should not funnel enemies the way they do. But it's one unrealistic element that balances out other unrealistic elements to make the game enjoyable, so I'm fine with it.
So you just enjoy easy tower defence games. You should try out bloons.
Saying those towers suck is a massive understatement, the entire layout of the bastions is moronic as it’s not designed to funnel enemy forces or maximise kill zones which considering the bastions entire purpose is to defend and not finance the Grand Cathay it’s design really is awful, most of the ornate buildings etc should be behind the huge ass wall behind it.
Immagen it was build like helmgard, 1 army wuld actually sufice
And then the buildable towers and barricades look like they are made from twigs, BUT NICE PAGODAS, HUH?
Unfortunately the Bastions are way harder to defend than Wh2 forts and that's a shame and makes no sense
@@adriankoch964 Well that was my initial thought too, but you have to remember that they are being built in the middle of a battle...which doesn't really make sense that an army would be able to do that, but if they could then the architecture would certainly be very plain.
@@rovers141 you’d think that you wouldn’t be able to build during a siege, but it was done in medieval Europe.
Though to be fair, rolling up and building siege equipment usually meant they’d surrender. Building and rebuilding the walls, defenses, and town inside was crazy expensive. As a result most sieges never fired a shot. Even in modern armies there are combat engineers building all manner of structures even under combat.
So it’s only a little on the edge. But magic is in the world, so we can handwave a little. ;)
It's like whoever put those back towers there has never played a total war game lol
It's like a Tarriff video coming true
TWH3 is now a tower defense game - confirmed.
*Tower offence game
@@loowick4074 I'm waiting for a standalone DLC for the new tower factions where there will tower cavalary and customizable tower mounts for other small towers.
All i know is i have ZERO CAPPING POWER. Because i NEVER CAP
@@bigdaddy6670 lol
New player here. I'm learning so much from your videos Thank you for your work!
Barricade hack is gonna be a life saver now in future battles. So hard defending the two points. Thanks for finding that out for us Legend!
Have to live vicariously through these videos as my game randomly crashes too often to play
I personally find the walls helpful, even in minor settlements. They allow more time to build towers inside the settlement and if you send out cavalry or flying units to distract the attackers the wall towers can do a lot more damage. Legend's tactic against Skarbrand was a perfect example.
Yeah and then you realize they don't attack you at all and starve you out in siege and take the city just like that
I totally got the thumbnail reference. Love it as always!
I saw norscan and bastion, and settled in for brutality. The number of towers that the two main points hold lets you do a defense in depth that absolutely wrecks.
With the unit experience, if they gain a chevron in battle you can’t see what effect it has until you either go to the campaign map or load up the next battle.
I would love a statistic for tower damage at the end battle screen, I would love to know exactly which tower did what, but that's probably too big an ask, instead i'd settle for just tower damage/kills
I must say, the city looks gorgeous,
It's aesthetically nice to look at!
Norscan monkes are here to submit tribute
Awesome. I'll certainly be planting barricades pre battle if it disables their pathing options then.
I was fighting in the sides previously and it's trickier to hold two approaches than 1 for sure
the enemy just disregarding your army and beelining to the point is really silly.
7:21 "yep, that's it. don't listen to what i tell you! what do i know?! i'm just the commander! don't listen to me!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
The elite infantry is just having a good time while their lord and brother fighting to the death lol
I like how ca does a two step forwards and one step back when it comes settlement in warhammer
The great bastion settlements are actually quite easy to defend. Once you upgrade them, you can station a pretty decent army in each of them for real cheap, without considering that level 5 bastions will have an actually great garrison by themselves. Wall towers and buildable towers do work super well too, you can kill 2/3 full units before they even reach the wall, plus camping in the main battle point, close to the two huge pillars, will make it relatively easy to defend your units from incoming waves.
There is a tower that can shoot at the enemy’s reinforcement point. Very useful and good fields of fire. It is on the bottom just behind the main wall
"Barricades are great if you build them at the right time."
Sun Tzu, probably
The norscan general is Soren Kalsarikannit - "kalsarikännit, is a form of drinking culture, originating in Finland, in which the drinker consumes alcoholic drinks at home, dressed in as little clothing as possible, mainly in underwear with no intention of going out."
Well played, CA
now this is a nice way to defend keeps compared to older total war games
Iirc there is a line in the DB that determines how long projectiles are immune to collision after spawning. So the towers can maybe still shoot in some directions from there. The projectiles will move through the walls. While protecting it from retaliatory fire
Can confirm tier 4 and 5 towers shoot arrows
18:56 Guys, did you notice how this formation on units, which was turned off previously manually by Legend, is turned on? Always that crap in battles, what a heck is going on in this game?
playing rome 2 i see often that you cant turn off formation attack on walls, is that still the case?
Cathay is the only faction to have Formation attack in WH3 and it's on by Default. In Rome 2 it was generally a good thing for a unit to have formation attack but not this case
"100 Rubel Superchat says:"
I turned off air skirmish immediately.
In a quest battle, it put all my ranged units on skirmish
@@Wolfspaule There are no more superchats from me, YT aborted this feature from my country. I know it is might seems funny, but it is actually not, dude. Not just because of superchats, but mostly because shitstorm that's coming for us
I feel like this battle shows how fun and cool the new supply mechanic is when playing a defensive siege, new strategies etc.
Probably your best thumbnail EVER XD!!!
23:28 hearing the gecko agree with ya here 😂
Hello. I am a Total War Warhammer fan, been an avid player since Warhammer I came out, and have continued on up to Warhammer III. I just wanted to take some time to commend you on a few comments on stream you did when you spoke so passionately, and so energetic about the current state of Warhammer III that I couldn't help but show my support and admiration towards you and your work. I have faith that the game will eventually get fixed in terms of bugs, optimization, campaign and more. I remember something similar ocurring with Warhammer II and it managed to rise above our expectations.
Meanwhile, all of us who love these games must raise our voices to CA and ask them, with the same amount of passion and love that you have shown to fix all these errors that have showing up. Optimization, bugs, gameplay and unit errors.... all so that this game that we love continues to grow and expand just as Warhammer II did.
Tonight I finally finished an Ogre Kingdoms campaign on normal and, honestly, i loved every minute of it, and i can't wait to finish it again with all races and new DLC races, especially chaos dwarfs. I don't want this game to die; the more i play the more I find something new that brings me joy, and i'm sure i'm not alone in this. We must all raise our voice and ask CA to please fix all these issues so that we can all enjoy this game to its fullest potential.
Sorry for the ramble, but I feel Legend here has spoken on behalf of everyone who loves these games, and so I send him my deepest gratitude all the way from Spain for voicing our concerns. Thank you, and happy gaming.
Wow, pretty much the garrison alone holding against 3 fullstacks - that's metal.
For the longest time I always thought control large army just meant the A.I. would control the reinforcing army...
Goddamn mongori-kurgans
I feel like the reason the Ai doesn't break down barricades is before the battle begins it does quick checkups on what the best moves would be for each unit it has, so when the battle starts it'll execute it no matter the obstacle put there afterword, but make an obstacle before the battle and the ai will work around what it believes to be the path of least resistance, at least in terms of movement wise, I feel like its incredibly similar to how the ai works with rimworld and raids.
From 13:15 it looks like one of those old tower defense browser games.
Damn Norscans come and attack your city wall
WOW.> I did not know taking off large armies slowed reinforcements down.. GOOD TO KNOW... Great strategy too btw..
Legend: What do I know, Im just a commander dont listen to me :D
Norscans can't tell the difference between barricades and wa-
I think some defender buildings should have some small squad ranged attack groups.
Like the tall city towers here could have a group of 10 crossbow units that constantly fire until the enemy gets close in the city, then they run. Like the quality to garrison buildings.
When mortal empires comes out, imagine a shaven settlement. Without any upgrades it could just have some slingers. With full upgrades some rattling gunners could be stationed watching main streets.
Kurgans are such good allies playing as Khairos
It Worked !!!!!!!!! I used this method on a 1v4 and it worded :-D thx a lot M. Legend :-D it really save my mental health xD (was quite mad at this game cause of 4v1 without the opportunity of beeing prepared)
He did it...he used the reference!
I wonder if the shooting through obstacles thing is the same part of the WE update that stops projectile collision for 1.5 seconds after shooting?
the great attempted ape escape of 2502 IC (colorized)
Welcome to City Wall!
Everybody gangsta still legend doesn’t have a semi disaster battle
Soren Kalsarikannit is leading one of the Kurgan armies. Kalsarikännit (Finnish) = The feeling when you are going to get drunk home alone in your underwear - with no intention of going out.
10/10
Was a good battle to watch
You use wall to inspire me me to use this contraption
Cheese for the cheese god priest HandsUp.
The thumbnail is just great
Great video title. Made me laugh.
Kind of reminds me of a defensive siege battle I had in Medieval 2. The walls were already breached in 1 spot, and the army I had there was severely depleted after a previous siege battle. However, this time, since there was already a hole in the wall, the AI just bum rushed it, and some spear dudes held the breach while a couple of depleted peasant archers just slaughtered the whole AI army. Super, super weird battle. I think I had 2 fresh units of some type of spearmen that could do the Schiltron formation, and a handful of depleted dismounted knights, a depleted generals bodyguard and as said, a few depleted peasant archers. Never thought I'd win it, but I played it anyway because I thought I'd do a better job than auto.
Openimg the gate and baiting the AI imto a U of spikes, whilst shooting them in the back from the walls is the classic siege defence strategy vs AI.
CA never managed to make the AI understand strongpoints it would be better off circumventing in siege.
Shame too, flank and rear charges worked suprising ly well.with the AI in field battles in M2.
This is like the old days in medieval 2, aslong as you kept motte and bailey with the wooden walls no one could climb or get in, they knock the walls down thwn you place one unit of a phalanx and bam the whole army loses in one hole in a wall lol.
true auzzie when you can hear the geko in the background hahahaha
Could have used some of those spare winds on the Yin slowing spell on the mammoths while they passed by the celestial crossbows. Slower speed would've improved accuracy so more DPS, more time in close range improves accuracy and so even more DPS, and more time in range total I think it would have been worth the winds.
Exploiting the Norscan monke's inability to understand walls.
@LegendofTotalWar i jusr found out that you can put up to 3 missile/archer units facing the same way on top of gates, you drag them in to tighter colums. really makes it more fun to use the walls/gates :) love from Sweden
This is a good video title.
honestly every saving your disaster siege video just convinces me they need to do a major rework of towers, literally just made the problem worse instead of fixing one of the main problems in the total war franchise
Btw Legend, disabling formation attack makes Cathay melee units perform about 10% better. Formation attack also ruins their mass.
Funnily enough guard mode works just as well as it always did.
Hey Legend! Hope you doing fine while enjoying the Break from streaming. Just in Case you havent Heard about it yet, CA made a Post, telling they Change the Main Campaign based on Feedbacks! Hope to see the cheese for the cheese God again soon enough. In the meantime i enioy your Videos. That Chinese Dude on the Thumbnail is top Tier btw 😂
Legend, in cathay settlements, do the artillary platform buildings actually allow you to place artillary on top?
As a Chinese I like and approve the city wall reference
The great wall of China kept Mongolians till a defector with the the knowledge of trebuchet an rockets they where able to breach the walls but what they did is go around where the walls end an ransacked every town zn got bribed to leave
@@SomeIdiotLUL i meant the south park guy from the thumbnail lol
Thanks for the video
That one lord at 16:12 is called Soren Kalsarikannit. Literal translation for Kalsarikannit (or kännit) from Finnish is underpants drunk or something of that nature.
It's when you stay at home drinking alone in your underpants. Very common saying here and I wonder how it got into the game.
A ton of names are foreign puns or things like that, lizardmen have a ton of Dutch names for lords/heroes and the wood Elves near the empire in TWW3 is called Ellendeling which roughly translates to miserable person. Gives me a chuckle every time
that thumbnail is soooo good !
This is essentially playing a TD (tower defense) game; minimal micro, just strategically set up points and watch the fodder go through the meat grinder.
I tried this with a larger army but lower quality (peasant stack with 2 tera cotta since I got an event that made recruitment of terra cotta cheap a few turns earlier). But Tzeentch was attacking so his chaos furries took the walls after I killed most of the Norscans. And my settlement was low leveled because I'd just retaken it a few turns back and on VH it takes forever for settlements to start gaining growth again. Therefore my towers didn't have the explosive damage of these ones. I lost badly XD, this is bad since Miao Ying is further East and I just lost a lot because I fought a settlement battle poorly. I basically need my Caravan army to arrive at it's stop next turn and for Miao Ying to head back so I can get her to one by one pick off these 2 armies and the new ones that are about to flood in.
I love this title
Seems like Legend is just gaslighting the guy about his bad luck :D
Actually, you don't really need to defend the right flank and left flank in that choke point. You only need to stack all your spearmans defending the edge between main road and victory point. A bit risky but totally worth trying.
Once again, i think you save me xD
I'm again 4 armies and Tier 3 or 4 garnison... no idea how to win this... i just search if you did a Bastion disaster battle... and... i'm ganna try this right now !!!!!! :-D
Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
The thumbnail made me laugh so hard
I had a similar battle except I had a lord and 2 terracotta warriors and it was a tier 5 settlement. Unfortunately I was up against 4 armies and made it through the first 3 but wiped on the last 1
WA...WA.....WAAA
*Queue interstellar theme here*
Edit: whoever design that fortress has no idea how fortresses actually work.
"Has no idea how X works" is pretty much CA's slogan.
Not gonna lie, Cathay has really grown on me as one of my favorite factions. I'm a still a fanboy for Tzeentch and Ogres though.
The beauty of newest TW game. Units shooting through the walls, enemy ignoring everything and just pushing to capture points, useless towers and formation that makes units weaker.