Is Writing an Art or a Craft?
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- This video was inspired by a video response @MattWall made to a video about Hemingway's writing advice made by @Bookfox
Check out Matt's Video Here:
• Destroying Hemingway w...
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Love this discussion. I'm in the "art and craft" camp, though of course lots of writing is pure craft or even just formula in some cases, and these are valuable in many ways and forms, if not art. I'm grateful that your review of the art/craft dichotomy reminded me of a classic writing advice book by Dorothea Brande called Becoming a Writer. Before we ever heard about the right brain/left brain, she recognized two essential processes at work in creating the more aesthetically ambitious kind of writing as composed of essentially an art part where the writer is in a dreamier, non-censorious state and a more craftlike approach to recognizing problems to be addressed in the drafted text. The problems identified can then be addressed using more "prosaic" skills and/or a return to the dream state as it were, as appropriate. In the best scenarios I subscribe to this approach, and I am deeply skeptical of the idea, for writing in any case, of just letting it rip once and never revising. That way lies (at least partial) badness, lol, imo.
Wonderful turn of phrase at the end. I think we are in the same camp. When writing I do my best to just go with the inspiration and give no thought to editing. But I do this knowing I will be editing and revising and as painful as it can be I really relish that more craftsman type of work because I believe it makes the whole thing better.
_First!_ I love collecting writing advice. And, what's my favorite one, the one I quote all the time? In a 90s workshop at ASU, some undergrad asked Olly Stone: "What's the _secret to good writing?"_ and Oliver said, "Keep yer ass in the chair ..." (And? And, dont put your writing desk in front of a window," I advise 😊 It's said that Vonnegut wrote "one page at a time;" meaning, he rewrote a page till it was "finished," then went on, then, by its end he had a finished novel! (That last one might be apocryphal 😉) Great one, Brian 🖋
You definitely have to put in the seat time. Thanks Allen.
Fascinating discussion! I agree that ultimately it’s both art and craft - different creators will balance those concerns in different ratios. From my perspective as a musician, my best work has been a combination of artistic inspiration and hard work. Without revising and honing the initial idea, it might not be as clear or powerful to an audience as it was to me when the idea first occurred.
Thank you. I think we are in the same camp.
In poetry both approaches have always felt to me as represented by Coleridge and Wordsworth - one more inspirational, one more craftsmanny. When working well there’s little distinction; when not, well, either can be bad differently. Yeats - possibly the best poet of his day - is well known for his revisions. He wrote in “Adam’s Curse”: “A line will take us hours maybe;/ Yet… [must] seem a moment’s thought” - no one will deny he catches it just right usually.
I meant to discuss poetry as being perhaps more in the inspiration side and have a pair of poets to contrast but I didn’t know enough to come up with a pair. Thank you for lending your expertise.
Most of the art that has been conserved throughout history was produced by competent, even superior craftsmen, but perhaps the art that is most cherished and lauded is that which bears some mark of that elusive quality we call genius. And this genius is something that can't be taught, it is an innate aptitude of the artist that can admittedly be cultivated and encouraged, but always remains at least somewhat mysterious, even to the artist herself.
@@barrymoore4470 Great response. Thank you.
Something I noticed by paying attention to what artists are most successful (aside from those with familial connections and money). And consistently, it's the people who are hard workers. Who are consistent. The journeymen. Is there also an element of "talent" or artistic ability? Of course. But someone with a small amount of artistic ability who learns the craft and learns how to be a professional will nearly always succeed far more than someone who has tremendous ability but fails to develop skill or consistent habits.
In my own work, I have found that focusing on the craft is a bit like keeping the lines open, so that when inspiration does come, I am able to capture it more effectively, to give it fuller expression.
I agree with your comment pretty completely and I think Matt would as well. Particularly the bit about focusing on craft as a way to keep the line to inspiration open.
you've nailed the niche of dancing around pondersome questions, Brian. Why can I never think of these? 😂
Dancing is one of my hidden talents🙂
Inspired revision? I think what people call 'the muse' is often a flash of intuition that bridges between the current state and a meaningful, significant preferred alternative state. Sometimes, these flashes of insight happen only after being immersed in the crafting itself. That's why people say to keep engaged with the work/story every day - so that the connections remain significant to the working memory. I think sleep and dreams function like this from day to day, alternating between careful immersion and relaxation, or work and play.
Great answer! I think that for Matt the muse is a more long term visitor.
Zelda might know the answer. She's a lovely dog.😍
She is, but she is very stubborn.😀
I love a video that creates a thoughtful conversation. Thank you for sharing your perspective. I agree that the way in which beautiful writing paints a picture and draws a reader into an atmospheric nook in their imagination is a form of art. I think the work is the craft and the way the reader experiences the finished piece is art. I think writing is a collaborative art because it tries on the reader to experience the work/craft.
@@books_and_bocadillos Thank you for your comment. I think we agree about art and how it is a product of the craft. I think it is a rare person who that kind of skill with the spiritual artistic ability/sensibility, but that we don’t have to have the latter to create art.
I'd relate the idea of the muse to the idea of a runners high where it's this sensation that people definitely feel and have shared experience of, but I've personally never felt it.
Interesting topic! I always love response videos.
@@ellethinks Thanks Elle. I like the comparison to a runners high.
"Of making many books there is no end"
Thank you for your wonderful cultural literary channel mr Brian . I read interesting article about writing art or craft , written by maira Allen I chose key points briefly here it’s she mentioned friend asked me one day writing should be classified as art or craft ? . Problem we so often is that non writers tend to imagine that writing is rather like talking anyone can do it. Imean talking is just putting words together in right order . She continued as she wrote visual artists accepting writing as art , at least art deserves to be considered right up with say painting or sculpture. Many writers themselves prefer not to think of writing as art . James chartrand blogging ( men with pens ) , writes I’m just say who can write for money . In his view writing is trade , just business, such as flipping burgers trade is craft .
Writing is both art and craft, as you said. For me, revision is where I find the muse. Revision has nothing to do with making something better for an audience (at first). It is all about going over what I've written quickly in first and second drafts and finding what I've hidden there for myself. Deepening, connecting, exploring, unearthing. Revision is the artistic side of writing (for me). Proofreading and copyediting are the craft side. =)
Oooh, I like what you said about revision being the way you find what you have hidden for yourself. You are the second person to point out to me that revision is where the art is for them. I think this is true for me as well, but I hadn't thought about it the way you explained it.
I agree that the line between craft and art is blurred. Chekhov is said to have once advised an aspiring novelist to ‘write until your fingers break’.
I jumped up at the barking.😅
Sorry about Zelda barking. She’s a butthead.
I certainly agree that practice increases ability (Matt does as well) it’s what happens after that where we diverge.
@@BookishTexan Zelda is a beautiful name.
I'm not sure about the difference between craftsmanship and art, but I've just realised that I might prefer a writer who identifies as a craftsman to a writer who identifies as an artist.
@ She is named after Zelda Fitzgerald and Zelda from the old TV show The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis.
Last part of article as I read craft can define as distinct from arts and crafts show .second definition craft refers to specifically to one trade one learns one craft , until one is proficient enough to make paying trade .
To get back to arts and crafts dichotomy, as she mentioned my definition first craft is something can be taught to virtually anyone. For example make dolls , you could article telling me , hundreds of people how to make similar dolls . Second craft involves assembly items exist in one form to another. For example crafts beaded necklace is product depends on skills , craft as trade takes concept of next level . In case of writing for instance turning out copy , press release. Let look at art , to my mind art is process of relating something out of nothing. Second it cannot be taught , packed into kit . Third key factor I believe you look at work of art , as I look at bead necklace, look to photograph. Writer can’t accomplish this without. Brilliant writers are as I believe both born and made . Inspiration only half battle . Lot of us are crafts putting food on table , creating articles, copy. Charles dickens earned living edited magazine household words , which morphed into all year round . Most of us like chartrand , don’t kid ourselves into believing works are art . I hope you like my synopsis. Merry Christmas happy new year in advance. Best wishes for you your dearest ones .
@@Khatoon170 Hello Khatoon! Thank you for sharing this information with me. It definitely gets to the heart of the issue I raised in my video. I think writing can be taught and learned, but inspiration can’t except in the sense that learning the skills may itself provide inspiration. I don’t think you have to be an artist to create art, but I think for artists creation comes from a different place inside themselves than it does for craftsmen.
J.S. Bach is credited for saying: “It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself." Some refer to Bach’s musical philosophy as that of a craftsman, but who would deny his music is art?
A misconception about jazz and improv is that it just geniusly flows out of the musician. In reality, jazz musicians work on their “craft” by practicing scales and exercises daily for years. They have to know their instrument or voice intimately to create that effect.
All that to say, I don’t think art and craft need to be separated. 👍
@@Johanna_reads I had not heard that about Bach. I didn’t mean to sound moly that Jazz musicians aren’t incredibly skilled and practiced musicians. Just that in the moment of the solo they are spontaneously creating art. They couldn’t do that without having developed the skills. I think that is what Matt was getting at as well.
I don’t see writing in quite the same way because it lacks the performance element. But I agree that craftsman can create art just, perhaps, differently than artists.
Johanna I’m guessing you have a background in music.
@ I do! Thanks for the in-depth response ☺️
Interesting video. I was like wait! A writing channel I've never heard of? And then you mentioned the "muse" thing and I was, ah, nevermind. I'm pretty much a materialist, and when people start externalizing their subconscious into some kind of spiritual / paranormal thing I just check out of the conversation. Even the way some writers talk about the their characters as if they're real and with a will independent of the author weirds me out. As for art vs craft "art" is more a value judgement than a useful category as far as I'm concerned.
@@boxoweasels I have always thought about writing in much the same way as you describe it. In the past writers talking about their characters as being independent from them has produced a similar reaction with me. Matt’s videos have forced me to consider that others might just relate to creation in a different way than I do. I don’t know if Matt sees the muse as a paranormal thing, but I have come to believe it is a very real thing for him. Who am I to say he’s wrong for him.
I see writing as very much a craft--something that requires planning and hard work as well as skill. I exclusively write nonfiction, but when I hear my serious poet friends and novelist friends talking about their work, they think of it that way too. I mean--they call it WORK for a reason. When I think about physical arts, I see a different kind of distinction. Are we talking about the creation of a piece based on tradition--or the creation of a piece that ideologically feels totally new in some way? For us knitters using traditional stitches and vaguely traditional patterns or even garment shapes, I would always call it craft. For someone imagining and then bringing into being something that doesn't have a set of rules behind it in some way, I think of it as art. Of course, that distinction doesn't necessarily work if we're talking about art created before modernism, does it?
@@HannahsBooks It is harder to imagine the inspiration to complete creation before modernism. The only examples I could think of were all post WWII. I definitely agree that writing is work that requires craft/skill planning and effort. That said, I think (as Matt said) that once the skills have been acquired that it is possible to create improvisational works that are art. Matt seems to create almost in opposition to every tradition.
"Only unrevised writing can be art" sounds like something a pretentious wannabe would say to sound cool at a party, honestly.
@@MustReadMore Matt is far from pretentious and far from a wannabe.
@BookishTexan I genuinely didn't mean to insult him, but I realize my comment came off that way and I apologize for that. I just meant that the idea behind that statement strikes me as narrow minded, that something finely crafted can't be art
@@MustReadMore Thank you for this reply. I am afraid I summarized Matt's pov poorly. He doesn't say things that are finely crafted can't be art, he believes that once an artist learns the skills that what is produced is art without need of revision. That it is already done right. Its not that the work isn't art so much as a craftsman isnt an artist because they need to revise. Not sure this helps or makes sense.
@@BookishTexan Well, it is somewhat confusing. I think I see writing as a craft and the finished product as art, and that what we call the creator, regardless of their methods, isn't as important as their creation. Whether Hemingway was an artist or a craftsman doesn't change that his books themselves are works of art, and I think that applies to writers and writing as a whole. I hope that makes sense
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Some artists are simply better at the craft of editing than that of spontaneous creation. For them, the chance of creating art is more apt to occur during the editing process. Besides that, struggling to capture the perfect line in the first draft is to constantly court frustration and artistic blockade.
Of course that self-justifies the fact that I developed into a better editor than a writer. When I was young I would do most of the writing and revision in my head and just sit down to capture the final product, but I cannot carry all that around in my head and be able to recall it, anymore.
@@slothrob Amazing comment! I hadn’t thought of a persons “art” being in their talent for editing. And I think that struggle to capture the perfect line would prevent me from writing at all. In Matt’s case I think he trusts that he has written enough and honed his skills enough to trust that what he writes is right. I’ll never be there, but I can see where others could.
@@BookishTexan I'm not sure how qualified I am to comment on writing as art, since my attempts at creative writing were never very successful. I produced a tall pile of scientific writing, though, and wrote nearly every day of the last 5 years of my career. Every line had to be impeccably clear yet brief, due to the purpose of the work, and I would have spent all day in contemplation if I attempted that on the 1st pass. Instead I would first capture my thoughts and by the 3rd pass I might be close enough to limit how much my reviewers forced me to rewrite a 4th time.
@ Most of my writing to this point has been in the field of history - from standardized test questions to a military history published this year - so like you I have focused on clarity more than beauty. Maybe that’s why I view writing more as a craft. I have been trying my hand at fiction this year and find that I apply the same technique, but in a different way.