As I understood it, bearings wear at the rate of one thousandth per year. The quality of ancient engineering never ceases to amaze me. Thanks Keith for teaching us so many things.
...delicate wooden box last week and fix a 1917 steam locomotive engine this week, ......and pretty much everything else in between...over the last few yrs shows, ......no where else you can see this type of work, than in your back yard Mr. Rucker........appreciate the invite.........
+cerberus Most of the time, yes, but I have had a few jobs where it was the most nerve racking thing! I can remember once where I had worked for nearly two days making something and the last step was to cut some threads. I was so worried I would mess it up and have to start over.....
i hadn't even dared to hope that i would see the actual locomotive in question - even though it's not the whole thing, i'm quite happy. 3 thumbs up for the work and for filling in the context.
Those third, fourth and fifth chips coming off looked so freaking good, when you made that cut everything must have been tuned in so well, feeds, speeds, depth. It's the same satisfying feeling you get when you watch a quarterback gets rushed, keeps his cool and throws to a wide-reciever who turns around just in time. Precision & art.
Toot, toot! Tell us Keith, you ever had the famous line from "the Little Engine that Could" in your head as you've worked on a project from time to time? "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can!" LOL! Well, I know that we always "thought you could!" LOL! Thanks to you and everyone for keeping the steam flowing and that museum going, and thanks for bringing us along on video. Aloha...Chuck.
+Knolltop Farms The little blue engine looked up at the hill. His light was weak, his whistle was shrill. He was tired and small, and the hill was tall, And his face blushed red as he softly said, “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.” So he started up with a chug and a strain, And he puffed and pulled with might and main. And slowly he climbed, a foot at a time, And his engine coughed as he whispered soft, “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.” With a squeak and a creak and a toot and a sigh, With an extra hope and an extra try, He would not stop - now he neared the top - And strong and proud he cried out loud, “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can!” He was almost there, when - CRASH! SMASH! BASH! He slid down and mashed into engine hash On the rocks below... which goes to show If the track is tough and the hill is rough, THINKING you can just ain’t enough! -Shel Silverstein
+Knolltop Farms Sometimes when the tracks are wet and the cars are loaded, we have one little grade on our railroad that can be quite the challenge. Many times, I have chanted that as I went up the hill. But in the machine shop, I am usually saying "I know I can, I know I can, I know I can....." At least that is what I keep telling myself....
Another thumbs up for you!....and...interesting that there's about 7-9 guys on you-tube, machinists, that I really like....and the same bunch of guys received the Niagara Cutter packaged gifts....! Someone is doing something right!! Mostly a good mix of showing, talking, explaining and doing....a couple guys tend to talk a bit long...but makeup for it with very detailed work later.
Thanks as always for the video Keith! Had a long day at work today and an hour in the dentist chair getting a crown put on afterwards. Needless to say, some home made meatloaf and kick back with a nice video and everything is right as rain. Thanks buddy! Can't wait to see the rest of the fix!
Never a shortage of work to do at the museum it seems. Looking forward to seeing you make the "bearing halves" when you get around to it. Always enjoy the videos :)
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I knew that, was just stating that working with Babbitt is an art, I've watched Keith Fenner make babbitt repairs in his videos. I have learned so much more old school shop work from all of you, You-tube creator's & enjoy every minute of it .
It's no surprise it pulled threads given the amount of tension being generated, especially if it is allowed to knock after wear has occurred. Most strap style bearings like this have a bolt or set screw that locks the wedge in place. Not a real good way to add one on this set up. Your lucky to have such interesting projects!
Don't see that style bearing much anymore these days. It is nice to have a way to compensate for wear when the bearings get a bit loose. Do those bearings get bound any when the locomotive turns? Looks like it would.
I like the machining part of the video as much as learning how the old machines work. Learning that the bearings are silicon bronze, could you just braze the bearing surface and then re-machine them?
+TheDisorderly1 Brazing up the old bearings is a possibility, but in this case, there is a LOT of the material that has been worn down over the past 98 years - I think it would be better to just make some new ones.
"in the days of my youth, father william said ..." thank you keth for the show. it really brings back the old memory. i hope the wedge bolt is long enough to protrude the chap-frame (that's what it used to be named, if i remember it) and to extend below it for the lock-nut. some engines have the crank-pin tapered with the nut on the inner part of the wheel. how is it arranged in yours? if he pin is removable, perhaps it would be worth it for the longevity of the engine to remove the pin and to make a new one out of a modern material? friction resistant? thank you for the video. ways too much fun in your museum, brother! -toly
+Toly Dukhovny Thanks Toly - "Chap Frame" - that is new to me but probably correct. And yes, the bolt is long enough for a lock nut to go on the bottom. As for the crank pins, I am not sure how they are attached to the wheels. If I can get them out though, I will probably make new ones when I make the new bearings. I know that on some locomotive wheels, they would actually turn the crank pins on a wheel lathe where the whole wheel set was turning where the pin was on center. Those old wheel lathes are pretty cool machines - I have seen the one at the Tennessee Valley Railway Museum and the Illinois Railway Museum, but never when they were being used.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org in most cases, the repair is concerned around restoring the profile and the roundness of the run surfaces of the wheels of a pair, not the pins. in case the pis need resurfacing, and the wheel pair can fit the lathe -- with the long offset, -- that's a whole different operation, but not more complex than that of resurfacing the crankshaft journals. some of those lathe machines are of great -- probably the gap-type -- clearance. if so, one is to face another problem of how to de-axe the wheel, and how to reassemble it back again. that would take a big oven and a big tens of tons horizontal press. i hope your relatively small engine would have the removable crank pins. contrarywise, it'll be a very fascinating project if that r/r museum lets you use their axle lathe. i hope you'd film the whole operation, and i hope i could make time to be there to help you. i'm quite sure the greater talents (s.a. adam, or even the funny beard fenner) would be just tickled in to jump into the project. that all could be a remarkable collaboration project. -toly
I'm sort of surprised that there wasn't any concern on the thread style. Maybe using a buttress thread or acme to give a little more thread material. I'm familiar with most of the reasons for not changing thread syle such keeping all parts the same maybe for interchangeability . And yes, it's lasted this long so replacement part should last as long. But, still seems to be a light thread choice for the application.
I assume that whenthe brass bearings were made, it was done with a gap between the two halves to allow for the adjustment? Looking forward to seeing more of this repair. And, thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
+GeoffreyThorpe123 Yes, there is a gap between them. Over the years, as they have continued to wear, we have had to cut out more and more of the gap as it keeps shrinking!
Keith: when do you feel like you are working? Fixing old locos, old wood wording power tools, etc. isnt what one usually finds in the help wanted section of the job market.
+SirDeanosity it's still work, even if you enjoy the product you are making, hating work isn't really what work is, that just makes you die young usually.
Keith, please give some operational detail on the followup as it seems to me that the you're going backwards. Screw and wedge repair looks dandy and was needed. However, the peg shaft seems to be the wear item and should be replaced with a more durable material rather than the bronze blocks.
+Eddie the Grouch Are you talking about the crank pin on the locomotive? If so, I may just replace it when I make the new bearings if I can get it out to do the replacement. But the bronze bearings are where most of the wear has taken place - some of those bearings have .750" of shims behind the bearings from where they have worn down so much. Part of the reason I am going to replace the bearings is that they are getting so thin in the bottom that they don't have much wear left in them!
Keith, sending you a page out of my "Copper-base Alloys Foundry Practice" book. On this page is a bunch of copper alloys used for various applications including a Bearing alloy used in the Railroad industry. The book is dated 1952,1965. If the foundry that you use is worth its' salt they will have the alloys needed to cast your parts in the authentic alloy used for Railroad bearings. I've learned that you try to make everything for the Museum as if it is back in the past so the page of alloys might come in handy. Will scan the page and send it to your email address after I post this. Later!
Very interesting video, suprised when i noticed how tiny the lock splint or what its called is on the locomotives main shaft! I reccon its a lot of force on that shaft. Anyway, Nice work :-)
Using all thread isn't so much a bad thing, the thread is rolled and is a bit stronger than a cut thread, i guess welding the nut is the weakest point though, i prefer to pin them. One of the bronze blocks looks fine and can go past its 'round' so will tighten up on the rod, but the other you can see is still at round when they are touching, so has no adjustment left, perhaps a simple mill a bit off the middle at the top bottom points?
Ian Clarke i thought it was mostly the worn threads stopping it going tight, i was supposing seeing the small gap on one of the pair, that it might touch ends and thus might get a bit more life from it
+jusb1066 The brasses in the locomotive are heavily shimmed now from years of adjusting them. Some of the bearings have shims that are nearly 3/4" thick from where the brass has worn away over the years. Part of the reason we are needing to make new brasses.
Keith, I was surprised how heavy your first cut was. So you made a heavier than normal initial cut on the hex to avoid making an interrupted cut? By the way, have you ever had a chance to visit the Henry Ford Museum? They have an Allegheny Locomotive that is among the largest ever produced. For someone interested in this sort of thing, it alone is worth the trip. Thanks for the video.
+Ian Butler The lathe will take a pretty heavy cut and I like to make short work out of these projects. That first cut you can take more than the next ones because so much of what you are taking off is air between the hex flats!
Keith Great job on the new adjusting screw Question how is the wedge locked into place after adjustment There must be space between the two pieces to allow for future adjustment , so the bearing must be loose to flap around Is the adjustment screw nutted up to fix it One point take great care with the new parts especially for the connecting rod one , it's the front bit that has to be correct centre of shaft to front flat else the rod length will be wrong and bind up To give you my history of steam engines I have built a fair few 5 inch gauge rivet perfect scale main line outline ones in the past and as you know as the size goes down the tolerance gets smaller and the coupling rod length was one of the most critical along with the steam porting , wether it be slide valve one my favourite piston valve with Walcharts gear good luck with the repair those old engines can bite you in the bum as the were hand made to fit Stuart
+John D While there was probably not a steam locomotive section in the local general store, as long as these companies that made them were in business it was easy to order spare parts.
Old technology is great, it last and last, at that rate with the size of the pin it will be still running in 500 years... lol The re-install part should prove interesting, with the details on lubrication, tolerances and so on... ;)
+warrantyvoid100 yeah, They jack up the locomotive and put a leather belt around the drive wheel to a jack shaft in the computer room. Everybody knows that!
+bendavanza It is actually hard to find one that is threaded that far up on the bolt - most are only threaded near the bottom. We could have probably special ordered some from somewhere, but with the metal lathe in the shop, I can just knock them out quicker and probably cheaper than buying them and having them shipped.
Hi Keith Again an excellent video - THANK YOU I am curious though - I believe the hex stock you used would have been mild steel and while I would think it would work for the short time wouldn't it have been better to make them out of a better quality of steel? My thought here is I would think there would be significant tension stresses put on the bolts (ie the connecting pin would push on the bronze which would push on the wedge which would tension the bolt). Thanks again - Rod
+Newmachinist I guess there are a couple of ways to think about this. You are correct that the wedge and bolt will both have stresses on them. My thinking was that I would rather the bolt be softer than the wedge so that it will fail before the wedge does. The bolt is a lot easier to make than the wedges is. But one could easily make the argument that you make as well.
Any chance of cleaning out the chowder and putting a helicoil or other threaded insert in the old one to have a spare on hand? Or a helicoil in the new one to make repairing the threads easy in the future?
Do you ever harden your new bolts, Keith? I know you have a mini forge and the bolts look like they are made from a mild steel bar stock so I was curious if they are hard enough on their own.
On the stripped wedge why not bore and press a plug in from the bottom with a small shoulder on top of hole to bear against. Then drill and tap so you have new good threads without having to replace an original part. Also you can shave the bearing blocks and refit them with blue and a scraper. High pressure but not high speed so they should be good for another 100 years unless you decide to take it logging. Mike (o\!/o)
+Integra DIY There is a feeling amongst restorers that you use as much as possible of the original parts as possible and only replace if there is absolutely necessary. Anal I know but it maintains the history.
+Moholo 88 I considered putting a sleeve in the holes, but decided against it. There is actually a lot of pressure on these threads and I was worried that the plug might work loose, even with a press fit. It may be overkill, but I would rather just have to do this once. With any luck, my new wedge will last another 98 years like the original one!
+Moholo 88 I'd be tempted to make a 1" - 8 threaded plug - or maybe a 7/8" - 9 ... probably in left-hand thread now that I think about it... and then stake it in place, with an inner bore drilled and tapped for the 5/8" - 11 bolt... And, considering just how much effort that would take, I'd say forget it, and just mill up a new replacement wedge instead... Eric
I notice the lack of Babbitt on these bearings. Does the shaft the bearings ride on turn so slowly (relatively) that Babbitt material isn't needed or has it just worn away over the years?
+Carknocker001 perhaps the pressure load is too much for babbet and thus needs the extra of proper bronze, or a simple white metal reline would be fast to do.
+Carknocker001 Bronze is also a good bearing material and it tends to hold up better to heavy loads and the "banging" that you get on the wheels of a locomotive. No babbitt in these bearings at all.
I noticed when you were doing the threading that you got a few curls that looked like little Christmas trees, have you ever considered keeping those and turning them into ornaments for your or a friends tree?
I've been waiting for an excuse to quote this Keith.... “It is an extraordinary fact but a true one that there are thousands of men in Britain who will never need Viagra as long as there are steam trains in operation” Bill Bryson, The Road to Little Dribbling, Chapter 14, East Anglia
great video, are the pins pressed into the wheel? Why not just machine the bearing out of solid stock instead of casting?cost? Im sorry to hear about your worn out nut.At least you still have a half of a nut.
Probably not that important, but that new wedge looks wrong, the internals of the U shaped pieces both have radiused corners, so if the new wedge was fully up on the travel it would impinge on the radius and not get full travel.
+Sparky Projects The wedge I will be making will have the rounded corners. The other wedge that I showed fits a different bearing and on that bearing, the wedge is on the other side, so there is no raidused corners that it needs to fit into. Same principle, but the bearing is installed backwards from the one I am working on.
Could you build the inside up with brazeing rod, and rebore it to size you need to fix it.. Or is there to much oil in the brass for the brazeing to stick good?
+Keith Gutshall There is just a LOT of metal that is gone. These bearings have shims in them about 3/4" thick on both sides. I think that making new ones would be a better option in this situation.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Very interesting Keith. Is there nothing that could be done to save the old wedges? Could the holes be filled, re-drilled and tapped ?
Is there only brass in the bearing? I have done similar repair on steam Engine but there has it been Babbits (I hopr that is the name in English) Then was it to first take away the metal and casting new babbits in the brass.
+Flowerbay I do a lot of babbitt bearings, but bronze would have been the preferred material for the locomotive because it can take a lot more beating. Both make excellent bearing materials.
+KevCarrico There are several alloys that are used for bearing purposes. If you go to the McMaster-Carr web site and search for "Bearing Bronze", you will find a good description of several of the alloys that they sell and you can try and find one that looks good for the job that you have.
+KevCarrico There are several alloys that are used for bearing purposes. If you go to the McMaster-Carr web site and search for "Bearing Bronze", you will find a good description of several of the alloys that they sell and you can try and find one that looks good for the job that you have.
+OLD WIPPER-SNAPPER Not sure I am following what you mean when you say "pins". As for locktight, I would would be afraid to use it in this application - the locomotive gets pretty hot and heat will break down lock tight.
As I understood it, bearings wear at the rate of one thousandth per year.
The quality of ancient engineering never ceases to amaze me.
Thanks Keith for teaching us so many things.
Nice job on the bolts Keith. Look forward to milling of the wedges. regards from the UK
+Gary C Hope to get that video posted on Friday!
I like the machining part of the video as much as learning how the old machines work
...delicate wooden box last week and fix a 1917 steam locomotive engine this week, ......and pretty much everything else in between...over the last few yrs shows, ......no where else you can see this type of work, than in your back yard Mr. Rucker........appreciate the invite.........
+Rick L Glad to have you over!
Threading is the most enjoyable thing you can do with a lathe. Nice video, thanks for sharing.
+cerberus Most of the time, yes, but I have had a few jobs where it was the most nerve racking thing! I can remember once where I had worked for nearly two days making something and the last step was to cut some threads. I was so worried I would mess it up and have to start over.....
i hadn't even dared to hope that i would see the actual locomotive in question - even though it's not the whole thing, i'm quite happy. 3 thumbs up for the work and for filling in the context.
+Gigaguenther Look back through my videos - I have a whole video devoted to the locomotive where I show how to fire it up and run it!
interesting stuff, once again. what would the museum be without you. cheers.
+Flip de boer Thanks!
Those third, fourth and fifth chips coming off looked so freaking good, when you made that cut everything must have been tuned in so well, feeds, speeds, depth. It's the same satisfying feeling you get when you watch a quarterback gets rushed, keeps his cool and throws to a wide-reciever who turns around just in time. Precision & art.
Nice one. From a model engineer here in England, I am pleased to see some sound skills being shown on this format. The loco looks good too.
Fascinating job Keith. Nice bolt turning. The new wedge will be an interesting piece.
+ChrisB257 The wedge was a fun project with all kinds of cool mill work. I hope to get that out on Friday!
GREAT THREADING JOB. CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THE NEXT STEP. THANKS KEITH.
+ROBERT HORNER Thanks!
Toot, toot! Tell us Keith, you ever had the famous line from "the Little Engine that Could" in your head as you've worked on a project from time to time? "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can!" LOL! Well, I know that we always "thought you could!" LOL!
Thanks to you and everyone for keeping the steam flowing and that museum going, and thanks for bringing us along on video. Aloha...Chuck.
+Knolltop Farms
The little blue engine looked up at the hill.
His light was weak, his whistle was shrill.
He was tired and small, and the hill was tall,
And his face blushed red as he softly said,
“I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.”
So he started up with a chug and a strain,
And he puffed and pulled with might and main.
And slowly he climbed, a foot at a time,
And his engine coughed as he whispered soft,
“I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.”
With a squeak and a creak and a toot and a sigh,
With an extra hope and an extra try,
He would not stop - now he neared the top -
And strong and proud he cried out loud,
“I think I can, I think I can, I think I can!”
He was almost there, when - CRASH! SMASH! BASH!
He slid down and mashed into engine hash
On the rocks below... which goes to show
If the track is tough and the hill is rough,
THINKING you can just ain’t enough!
-Shel Silverstein
+Knolltop Farms Sometimes when the tracks are wet and the cars are loaded, we have one little grade on our railroad that can be quite the challenge. Many times, I have chanted that as I went up the hill. But in the machine shop, I am usually saying "I know I can, I know I can, I know I can....." At least that is what I keep telling myself....
Another thumbs up for you!....and...interesting that there's about 7-9 guys on you-tube, machinists, that I really like....and the same bunch of guys received the Niagara Cutter packaged gifts....!
Someone is doing something right!! Mostly a good mix of showing, talking, explaining and doing....a couple guys tend to talk a bit long...but makeup for it with very detailed work later.
Thank you!
Never seen a design quite like that for taking up the slack in the bearings - simple but effective.
+Dan Whiteford It works! And has been working on this locomotive for the past 98 years!
Straps & wedges - informative video for sure! Thank you once more.
+Joe Rogers Thanks for watching Joe!
Thanks as always for the video Keith! Had a long day at work today and an hour in the dentist chair getting a crown put on afterwards. Needless to say, some home made meatloaf and kick back with a nice video and everything is right as rain.
Thanks buddy! Can't wait to see the rest of the fix!
+Brian Streufert Thanks as always Brian for taking the time to watch and comment!
Never a shortage of work to do at the museum it seems. Looking forward to seeing you make the "bearing halves" when you get around to it. Always enjoy the videos :)
+Rj Bin1971 Yes, there is always something to work on at the museum. No shortage of content for new videos!
that was cool, thanks for taking the time to stage, film and edit this material.
+Paul Gdry Thanks Paul!
Great stuff Keith. Thank you!
+Gloveman009 Thanks for watching
Interesting for sure, thanks Keith
+Bundy Bears Shed Thanks!
This was REALLY interesting! Thanks, Keith!
+Sean Harrington Thanks Sean, I am glad that you found it interesting and worthy of your time!
Great stuff again Keith!!
+Luke Albanese Thanks Luke!
Also, repairs where Babbitt is involved are really interesting , Great topics & videos .....
+Robert Perrigo No babbitt on this fix - the new bearings will be made from bronze.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I knew that, was just stating that working with Babbitt is an art, I've watched Keith Fenner make babbitt repairs in his videos. I have learned so much more old school shop work from all of you, You-tube creator's & enjoy every minute of it .
Hello Keith,
Great work and again an interesting video !
Many greetings from Roel.
+RoelTyros Thanks!
Thanks for the video. Very cool. Larry
+GeriLarry Ogle Thank you!
Nice and interesting work! Thank you
+phooesnax Thanks for watching!
Good video! I love the steam engine stuff.
+MattsMotorz Thanks- I love steam engine stuff as well!
as always an interesting video showing your great skill.
+chuckwin100 Thanks!
Great video...... Thanks so much for sharing........... Merry Christmas, Happy New Years!
+Kenny A Thank you - and a very Merry Christmas to you as well!
AMAZING VIDEO!!! thank you!
+KevCarrico Thanks!
Thumbs up, nice little task .
+Robert Perrigo Thanks!
Cool vid Keith.Hope they can start work on your shop soon!
+Mr Frog They are supposed to get started framing next week - they are taking this week off for Thanksgiving.
It would be a nice Christmas present for you to get it roughed in!
I'd love to have a tutor like you!
+mejinks1978 You are welcome to come hang out in the shop any time!
Believe it or not, as soon as I win the lottery, a visit to you is on my bucket list!
It's no surprise it pulled threads given the amount of tension being generated, especially if it is allowed to knock after wear has occurred. Most strap style bearings like this have a bolt or set screw that locks the wedge in place. Not a real good way to add one on this set up. Your lucky to have such interesting projects!
+ilkjdsflkfj All in all, I think it has held up pretty well considering the locomotive was built in 1917!
Don't see that style bearing much anymore these days. It is nice to have a way to compensate for wear when the bearings get a bit loose. Do those bearings get bound any when the locomotive turns? Looks like it would.
+bcbloc02 We have never had issues with them binding as long as they are not too tight.
good to see this old machine's
I like the machining part of the video as much as learning how the old machines work. Learning that the bearings are silicon bronze, could you just braze the bearing surface and then re-machine them?
+TheDisorderly1 Brazing up the old bearings is a possibility, but in this case, there is a LOT of the material that has been worn down over the past 98 years - I think it would be better to just make some new ones.
"in the days of my youth, father william said ..."
thank you keth for the show. it really brings back the old memory.
i hope the wedge bolt is long enough to protrude the chap-frame (that's what it used to be named, if i remember it) and to extend below it for the lock-nut.
some engines have the crank-pin tapered with the nut on the inner part of the wheel. how is it arranged in yours?
if he pin is removable, perhaps it would be worth it for the longevity of the engine to remove the pin and to make a new one out of a modern material? friction resistant?
thank you for the video. ways too much fun in your museum, brother!
-toly
+Toly Dukhovny Thanks Toly - "Chap Frame" - that is new to me but probably correct. And yes, the bolt is long enough for a lock nut to go on the bottom. As for the crank pins, I am not sure how they are attached to the wheels. If I can get them out though, I will probably make new ones when I make the new bearings. I know that on some locomotive wheels, they would actually turn the crank pins on a wheel lathe where the whole wheel set was turning where the pin was on center. Those old wheel lathes are pretty cool machines - I have seen the one at the Tennessee Valley Railway Museum and the Illinois Railway Museum, but never when they were being used.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org in most cases, the repair is concerned around restoring the profile and the roundness of the run surfaces of the wheels of a pair, not the pins. in case the pis need resurfacing, and the wheel pair can fit the lathe -- with the long offset, -- that's a whole different operation, but not more complex than that of resurfacing the crankshaft journals.
some of those lathe machines are of great -- probably the gap-type -- clearance. if so, one is to face another problem of how to de-axe the wheel, and how to reassemble it back again. that would take a big oven and a big tens of tons horizontal press.
i hope your relatively small engine would have the removable crank pins.
contrarywise, it'll be a very fascinating project if that r/r museum lets you use their axle lathe. i hope you'd film the whole operation, and i hope i could make time to be there to help you. i'm quite sure the greater talents (s.a. adam, or even the funny beard fenner) would be just tickled in to jump into the project. that all could be a remarkable collaboration project.
-toly
I'm sort of surprised that there wasn't any concern on the thread style. Maybe using a buttress thread or acme to give a little more thread material. I'm familiar with most of the reasons for not changing thread syle such keeping all parts the same maybe for interchangeability . And yes, it's lasted this long so replacement part should last as long. But, still seems to be a light thread choice for the application.
That was awesome.
+john gnang Thank you!
Looks good
I assume that whenthe brass bearings were made, it was done with a gap between the two halves to allow for the adjustment?
Looking forward to seeing more of this repair.
And, thank you for taking the time to make these videos.
+GeoffreyThorpe123 Yes, there is a gap between them. Over the years, as they have continued to wear, we have had to cut out more and more of the gap as it keeps shrinking!
Thanks you keep it very intersting
+Charlie Wood Thank you Charlie!
Keith: when do you feel like you are working? Fixing old locos, old wood wording power tools, etc. isnt what one usually finds in the help wanted section of the job market.
+SirDeanosity it's still work, even if you enjoy the product you are making, hating work isn't really what work is, that just makes you die young usually.
+SirDeanosity Since I am volunteering at the museum, when it starts feeling like work, I will probably just stay home!
+jusb1066 Oh I didn't mean it in that sense. I envy Keith for the opportunity to fix life size toys.
Keith, please give some operational detail on the followup as it seems to me that the you're going backwards. Screw and wedge repair looks dandy and was needed. However, the peg shaft seems to be the wear item and should be replaced with a more durable material rather than the bronze blocks.
+Eddie the Grouch Are you talking about the crank pin on the locomotive? If so, I may just replace it when I make the new bearings if I can get it out to do the replacement. But the bronze bearings are where most of the wear has taken place - some of those bearings have .750" of shims behind the bearings from where they have worn down so much. Part of the reason I am going to replace the bearings is that they are getting so thin in the bottom that they don't have much wear left in them!
Ahh! That makes sense, then. The wear pattern on the bronze around 5:30 mislead me.
Interesting stuff Keith. :-)
+CompEdgeX Thank you!
Keith, sending you a page out of my "Copper-base Alloys Foundry Practice" book. On this page is a bunch of copper alloys used for various applications including a Bearing alloy used in the Railroad industry. The book is dated 1952,1965. If the foundry that you use is worth its' salt they will have the alloys needed to cast your parts in the authentic alloy used for Railroad bearings. I've learned that you try to make everything for the Museum as if it is back in the past so the page of alloys might come in handy. Will scan the page and send it to your email address after I post this. Later!
+sandrammer Thanks Tom - I got the email.
Hope you can find use for it.
Very interesting video, suprised when i noticed how tiny the lock splint or what its called is on the locomotives main shaft! I reccon its a lot of force on that shaft. Anyway, Nice work :-)
+Ståle Sætervik Well, it is a small locomotive - at least from locomotives standards!
Using all thread isn't so much a bad thing, the thread is rolled and is a bit stronger than a cut thread, i guess welding the nut is the weakest point though, i prefer to pin them. One of the bronze blocks looks fine and can go past its 'round' so will tighten up on the rod, but the other you can see is still at round when they are touching, so has no adjustment left, perhaps a simple mill a bit off the middle at the top bottom points?
+jusb1066
Then you'd need to shim the wedge to take up the slack, I can't see a practical way to do that without risking it coming loose.
Ian Clarke
i thought it was mostly the worn threads stopping it going tight, i was supposing seeing the small gap on one of the pair, that it might touch ends and thus might get a bit more life from it
+jusb1066 The brasses in the locomotive are heavily shimmed now from years of adjusting them. Some of the bearings have shims that are nearly 3/4" thick from where the brass has worn away over the years. Part of the reason we are needing to make new brasses.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I guess when you cant shim it anymore, you call Keith in!
Keith,
I was surprised how heavy your first cut was. So you made a heavier than normal initial cut on the hex to avoid making an interrupted cut?
By the way, have you ever had a chance to visit the Henry Ford Museum? They have an Allegheny Locomotive that is among the largest ever produced. For someone interested in this sort of thing, it alone is worth the trip.
Thanks for the video.
+Ian Butler The lathe will take a pretty heavy cut and I like to make short work out of these projects. That first cut you can take more than the next ones because so much of what you are taking off is air between the hex flats!
Interesting topic and great video. Would repairing the wedge with a Helicoil or similar be too weak?
+Morris Gallo The thread went the entire depth of the wedge - I have never seen helicoils that long.
Keith
Great job on the new adjusting screw
Question how is the wedge locked into place after adjustment
There must be space between the two pieces to allow for future adjustment , so the bearing must be loose to flap around
Is the adjustment screw nutted up to fix it
One point take great care with the new parts especially for the connecting rod one , it's the front bit that has to be correct centre of shaft to front flat else the rod length will be wrong and bind up
To give you my history of steam engines I have built a fair few 5 inch gauge rivet perfect scale main line outline ones in the past and as you know as the size goes down the tolerance gets smaller and the coupling rod length was one of the most critical along with the steam porting , wether it be slide valve one my favourite piston valve with Walcharts gear good luck with the repair those old engines can bite you in the bum as the were hand made to fit
Stuart
+Stuart Hardy Stuart, Yes, there is a lock nut on the bottom of the screw to lock it in place.
At 7:09, back in the day, would you say that there was plenty of extra parts for steam locos? Like today, we just go to NAPA to get a part.
+John D While there was probably not a steam locomotive section in the local general store, as long as these companies that made them were in business it was easy to order spare parts.
Old technology is great, it last and last, at that rate with the size of the pin it will be still running in 500 years... lol
The re-install part should prove interesting, with the details on lubrication, tolerances and so on... ;)
+pierre beaudry The locomotive is 98 years old this year. I hope that my new parts will last at least as long as the originals!
Will you be making the patterns from wood or are you going to 3d print them? I'm assuming the museum has a steam driven 3d printer.
+warrantyvoid100 yeah, They jack up the locomotive and put a leather belt around the drive wheel to a jack shaft in the computer room. Everybody knows that!
+warrantyvoid100 I will probably just make these out of wood.
Nice looking bolts, and it makes for nice footage, but a bolt like that should be easy enough to find in grade 8?
+bendavanza It is actually hard to find one that is threaded that far up on the bolt - most are only threaded near the bottom. We could have probably special ordered some from somewhere, but with the metal lathe in the shop, I can just knock them out quicker and probably cheaper than buying them and having them shipped.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I knew there had to be a good reason. I enjoy learning from your videos.
Hi Keith Again an excellent video - THANK YOU
I am curious though - I believe the hex stock you used would have been mild steel and
while I would think it would work for the short time wouldn't it have been better to make
them out of a better quality of steel? My thought here is I would think there would be
significant tension stresses put on the bolts (ie the connecting pin would push on the bronze which would push on the wedge which would tension the bolt).
Thanks again - Rod
+Newmachinist I guess there are a couple of ways to think about this. You are correct that the wedge and bolt will both have stresses on them. My thinking was that I would rather the bolt be softer than the wedge so that it will fail before the wedge does. The bolt is a lot easier to make than the wedges is. But one could easily make the argument that you make as well.
Any chance of cleaning out the chowder and putting a helicoil or other threaded insert in the old one to have a spare on hand? Or a helicoil in the new one to make repairing the threads easy in the future?
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Thanks Keith - makes total sense to
me now.
Do you ever harden your new bolts, Keith? I know you have a mini forge and the bolts look like they are made from a mild steel bar stock so I was curious if they are hard enough on their own.
+BigRalphSmith I have hardened bolts in some situations, but we did not on these.
keith interesting video.
+Robert Kutz Thanks Robert!
Yep, time for some new parts; will you machine the new bearing bronzes? Greg
+Charles Compton We will have the new bearings cast and then I will machine them.
On the stripped wedge why not bore and press a plug in from the bottom with a small shoulder on top of hole to bear against. Then drill and tap so you have new good threads without having to replace an original part. Also you can shave the bearing blocks and refit them with blue and a scraper. High pressure but not high speed so they should be good for another 100 years unless you decide to take it logging.
Mike (o\!/o)
I like the idea of trying to save the original part that way as well.
its best to replace the part with a new part. bore and sleeve is more of a temp fix
+Integra DIY There is a feeling amongst restorers that you use as much as possible of the original parts as possible and only replace if there is absolutely necessary. Anal I know but it maintains the history.
+Moholo 88 I considered putting a sleeve in the holes, but decided against it. There is actually a lot of pressure on these threads and I was worried that the plug might work loose, even with a press fit. It may be overkill, but I would rather just have to do this once. With any luck, my new wedge will last another 98 years like the original one!
+Moholo 88 I'd be tempted to make a 1" - 8 threaded plug - or maybe a 7/8" - 9 ... probably in left-hand thread now that I think about it... and then stake it in place, with an inner bore drilled and tapped for the 5/8" - 11 bolt...
And, considering just how much effort that would take, I'd say forget it, and just mill up a new replacement wedge instead...
Eric
Machinists make the world work.
+Wes Gates We at least make the parts and pieces that make the world work!
I notice the lack of Babbitt on these bearings. Does the shaft the bearings ride on turn so slowly (relatively) that Babbitt material isn't needed or has it just worn away over the years?
+Carknocker001 perhaps the pressure load is too much for babbet and thus needs the extra of proper bronze, or a simple white metal reline would be fast to do.
+Carknocker001 Bronze is also a good bearing material and it tends to hold up better to heavy loads and the "banging" that you get on the wheels of a locomotive. No babbitt in these bearings at all.
+Carknocker001 Thanks for the responses...learning something new is a good thing!
Oops,my bad.You did say 5/8-11,don't know where I got that from.I was watching the video while the Haas was running and must have missed that.
+Jason Carpenter No problem! I have made parts the wrong size before because I got confused in my mind....
I noticed when you were doing the threading that you got a few curls that looked like little Christmas trees, have you ever considered keeping those and turning them into ornaments for your or a friends tree?
+idopyrotechnics LOL - No, I have not thought of that before! Of course, those little Christmas trees would be razor sharp....
perfect you don't even have to trim your tree at all the ornament will do it for you... or it can be training for someone to de-bur 😂
I've been waiting for an excuse to quote this Keith....
“It is an extraordinary fact but a true one that there are thousands of men in Britain who will never need Viagra as long as there are steam trains in operation”
Bill Bryson, The Road to Little Dribbling, Chapter 14, East Anglia
+Gordon McMillan
Is that because women give steam loco guys a wide berth ?
+Ian Clarke yep being greasy and covered in black grime has never worked for me
+Gordon McMillan I can relate to that quote!
great video, are the pins pressed into the wheel? Why not just machine the bearing out of solid stock instead of casting?cost? Im sorry to hear about your worn out nut.At least you still have a half of a nut.
Probably not that important, but that new wedge looks wrong, the internals of the U shaped pieces both have radiused corners, so if the new wedge was fully up on the travel it would impinge on the radius and not get full travel.
that was the old wedge, hes going to make an exact duplicate
+Integra DIY The old wedge has the rounded corners to fit the U piece iirc
The one with the worn out threads
+Sparky Projects The wedge I will be making will have the rounded corners. The other wedge that I showed fits a different bearing and on that bearing, the wedge is on the other side, so there is no raidused corners that it needs to fit into. Same principle, but the bearing is installed backwards from the one I am working on.
Could you build the inside up with brazeing rod, and rebore it to size you need to fix it.. Or is there to much oil in the brass for the brazeing to stick good?
+Keith Gutshall There is just a LOT of metal that is gone. These bearings have shims in them about 3/4" thick on both sides. I think that making new ones would be a better option in this situation.
Shouldnt those bolts be high tensile ?
For the stripped thread why not use a helicoil? Quicker & saves vintage part.
+Cranky Old Man Productions That part is threaded the entire length of the wedge - I have never seen a helicol that long.
I think you will find that angle is 81 degrees, not 89 degrees.
If it were 89 degrees, it would be only 1 degree (not 9 degrees) off a 90.
Would it be possible to make an over sized pin than a new bushing?
+Dan N never mind I read some of the comments and got the answer. Thank you for the great videos.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Very interesting Keith. Is there nothing that could be done to save the old wedges? Could the holes be filled, re-drilled and tapped ?
+Spoif A repair could be attempted, but it was my opinion that a new part was the best route to go.
Is there only brass in the bearing? I have done similar repair on steam Engine but there has it been Babbits (I hopr that is the name in English) Then was it to first take away the metal and casting new babbits in the brass.
+Flowerbay I do a lot of babbitt bearings, but bronze would have been the preferred material for the locomotive because it can take a lot more beating. Both make excellent bearing materials.
Keith; ii TPI sounds like a british thread. What speed ( RPM ) did you use to cut the threads?....Hal
+Hal Edmondson TPI = Teeth Per Inch or Threads Per Inch.
what is a great, general hobbyist "bearing bronze"?
+KevCarrico There are several alloys that are used for bearing purposes. If you go to the McMaster-Carr web site and search for "Bearing Bronze", you will find a good description of several of the alloys that they sell and you can try and find one that looks good for the job that you have.
+KevCarrico There are several alloys that are used for bearing purposes. If you go to the McMaster-Carr web site and search for "Bearing Bronze", you will find a good description of several of the alloys that they sell and you can try and find one that looks good for the job that you have.
COULD YOU SLEEVE THE PINS & LOCK-TIGHT THEM ??
+OLD WIPPER-SNAPPER Not sure I am following what you mean when you say "pins". As for locktight, I would would be afraid to use it in this application - the locomotive gets pretty hot and heat will break down lock tight.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️👍🏼
I've watched a lot of machinist cutting threads, they all make relief cuts where the thread ends why don't you
1/2-11!You don't see that much.
+Jason Carpenter If I said 1/2"-11, then I was wrong - it was 5/8"-11.
hi keith
+Andy Coakes Hello Andy!
been out and about today cracking video by the way
Like ~M~
Locomotive-related machining is ALWAYS a hit.... Why can't YOU simply fabricate those bearing blocks from bronze plates & tubes....???
You could machine it from a solid piece, but there would be a lot of waste. Expensive waste.....