also worth mentioning that more recently, many great players have been experimenting with jynx as a facilitator of lategame alakazam, and the combo has borne good results
imagine queuing into bkc in a meta without team preview. he knows your whole team before you even click a move. at least with team preview you know his team too
GSC OU is my favorite metagame (not counting randbats). Haven't played it extensively in the last year, but when I was last regularly active Jynx's rising popularity was causing some interesting ladder matches for sure. Love seeing your gen 2 videos!
I learned alot about this and Jynx is one of my favorite Pokemon of all, so this was satisfying. Thanks for such a great video! 34:05 I would argue your grievance isn't just not the fault of Jynx and I wouldn't even say it's the fault of the playerbase. I would say that this is more a problem with how Pokemon is designed as a game. Speaking as a versed competitive Pokemon player that has played monster collector RPG genre games outside of Pokemon, it's very fair to say Pokemon is very lacking in many control elements that make situations more luck rather than skill. For example, one of my favorite video games of all both casually and competitively, Yo-Kai Watch, has all kinds of team setups where you can't make similar grievances. There are team setups you can make that can GUARANTEE powerful crit damage, GUARANTEE killing off opponents that got lucky with random damage rolls with only a smidgen of their HP left or even GUARANTEE attacks that can completely negate accuracy/evasion checks. Many strategies players make use of in competitive Yo-Kai Watch would be considered game breaking in the context of Pokemon due to how consistent the sheer wide variety of strategies are that have very weak equivalents in Pokemon. Yo-Kai Watch is just one example, but monster collectors both older and newer than Pokemon have things like that such as Shin Megami Tensei, Dragon Quest Monsters and even Digimon. With Jynx getting SpDef drops or Freeze status, that's just another example of this kind of thing because neither player has any control over that kind of thing like they would in another game of the same genre. All the games I listed above have no shortage of ways to practically guarantee debuffs or status conditions that are by comparison far stronger but the games also give players ways to get rid of them with little issue. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you can't really blame the players entirely when it's the fault of how the game is designed that LETS the player exploit an option that neither player has control over. TLDR; Hate the game, not the player.
Wow, good to see VIL is still active. He gave me one of his best GSC teams back the day that he used to win some Smogon tournaments. I remember thinking it was weird that 5/6 pokemon had explosion. It was pretty unheard of to have that many pokemon packing boom back in 2004-2005. Needless to say that team was a force to be reckoned with.
i genuinely don’t see a resemblance, wishport meta was just keeping frail offensive mons alive with a dumbass pink blob that never died. gsc is (usually) slow and methodical with plenty exceptions (machamp, heracross, nidoking etc.) with a team of mostly bulky mons with some setup sweepers and hazards/hazard control
I think the hatred for GSC meta just comes from an intolerance of anything being slow nowadays. And while it's not my favorite I'd much rather have it that the horrible power crept meta we have now. And too many legendaries in OU.. Besides if I wanted to play a fun meta with post physical/special split I'll just play Gen 5, Gen 4 (despite how stealth rocks ruins overall balance of the meta) and even Gen 6.
@@mangosteak There isn't anything wrong with a legendary as a meta staple, I mean Gen 2 has Raikou and Zapdos even ADV has Jirachi and Suicune, but when itt becomes flooded with them that other mons are justt worse it can make a meta boring.
I always thought the best and easiest way to improve GSC is just ban one of Rest or Sleep Talk. Or limit each to one Pokemon per team. And limit Leftovers to one Pokemon per team! The max EVs of Gen 2 make for a great metagame if Rest and Sleep Talk become much less prevalent. I like the idea of most Pokemon being able to take multiple hits, and be more capable mixed attackers. The offensive giga power creep of later gens, and more so the polarizing nature of offense and defense as to becoming more balanced, has become really off-putting and dissatisfying.
The central issue of Gen 2 OU's appeal is Rest-Talk, specifically because of Sleep Talk calling Rest. That's what enabled the "stall" play which is a lot of people's, including mine's, introduction to this metagame, and remains a theme throughout the viewing experience.
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 I just dont see a downside to having one. its indeed a rare occurance, but whenever it happens its pretty much gg and often its completely unintentional as well
@@Erasuma how would you enforce it? you can’t go for a potential freeze move if a pokemon is frozen? you can but the freeze doesn’t proc? i just don’t see the need for it tbh in anything after RBY
Gen 2 may not be "all stall" buts its definitely the defining play style as seen when Offensive rose in response to it yet stall is still a Pillar of the Meta game.
Somewhat related question, how in the world is snorlax not banned? When discussing bans, you're a huge proponent of the idea that a pokemon doesn't need to ohko everything or be unkillable to be banworthy, but rather have a suffocating hold on both teambuilding and gameplay. And lax fits both. Any other generation, and something like it would be gone in a heartbeat. So why is it that in gsc we say "it's okay to need 2 electrics with the inaccurate thunder, and also an explosion or 2, AND our own snorlax, *just* to handle the opponent's?" I get that there aren't many pokemon in the game, but getting rid of lax would allow so much more diversity. Sure, other pokemon would seem unstoppable, but we haven't tried it in a meta where that's the case. There can be other checks to the electrics, but we have no reason to try because of the one size fits all solution in lax. Maybe I'm just inexperienced, but anything that's literally *required* for a good team seems a little too oppressive.
it's been tried before. gsc with lax has a lot more diversity than the laxless variant. it actually does fulfill the full stall stereotype because it's too difficult to otherwise reasonably answer offensive pokes without the catch-all that lax provides. if this were a modern metagame with a modern playerbase, after you nixed lax you'd follow with zapdos (at bare minimum) and see what else happens...but in such an old metagame, it's not feasible (especially since the idea of banning anything but the most extreme pokemon from ou used to be very frowned upon in the first 3 gens, before suspect testing)
Yeah, its hard to fathom banning Jynx when a pokemon that is quite literally the topmost S-rank uber remains somehow (for the most part) unquestionably OU.
@@BKCplaysPokemon That makes sense. It's a shame the meta is so static in the viable options, since there are so many pokes that are just invalidated. I guess I'll just need to get into other tiers, too
Off topic but I kinda just need toget this off my chest: I think I'll quit competitive Pokémon once and for all. I'm so frustrated, like I've been playing competitive since 2011 now and I've always been really bad. I'm the laughing stock of my friend group and the highest elo I can get on showdown is around 1300 (on a good day), never made it last 1400 and never will. And then to have people who play for a few months telling me I need to practice more, is just disheartening. I love your videos and the concept of competitive battling, but I think I'll never get into it, or never eben be mediocre at it.
I don't know the full extent of your situation but the point of playing pokemon is to enjoy it. chasing certain standards of being "good" isn't worth it if it stresses you out and makes you unhappy. personally, I would completely block out what others are saying and do whatever you like. all the best. (ps playing well or whatever comes a lot more easily and naturally when you are taking it easy and having fun)
If you haven't already I would also recommend you check out Jamvad's RUclips channel before deciding to quit, he has some really good videos where he gives tips to improve both your mindset and playing ability which have personally helped me when a ton when I felt the same as you. Best of luck!
The Pokemon battle is played before you ever load up a match. It's not for the type of person who doesn't enjoy studying team matchups, lines, and movesets, and most imprtantly: being creative. There is a massive barrier to entry, and it sounds like the reason you have not been finding success despite all of your time with the simulator is: you have not hurdled the wall. Some people (like you mentioned) are intuitive with the skills revolving around Pokemon, so they may pass the knowledge barrier quickly. I don't know if you just want your frustration validated, but it is definitely true that not everyone is cut out for it. Some people would think this is torture, while others could get lost in their minds for hours and feel nothing short of energized coming out the other end.
@@ninezerotwo1778 personally I get frustrated when I try being creative and it doesn't pan out. Not that it's anyone's fault but my own but it still makes me wanna walk away. I'll have an idea, like "what if I set up aurora veil and switch in a weakness policy shell smash cloyster, it'll have skyrocketed stats in no time and the veil will make up for its lowered defences.". Naah, gets yeeted anyway in a turn or two by zeraora with plasma fists or something effortless. You learn what ideas are bad but sometimes you feel like creativity is stifled by sheer power.
I completely disagree with your point on the addition of the freeze clause. If it was removed Ice would be considered a better defensive type and TriAttack would get a lot of value. Refusal to adapt should never be an excuse.
@@BKCplaysPokemon What do you mean? Freeze clause was in the competitive ruleset since before GSC existed. The game has barely had any modern interpretation without gameplay limiting rulesets devised on the basis of RNG reduction. It was also not used much early on because it didn't status normal Pokemon (not that the showdown scene even knew that until more recently, which serves to show that the entire community aren't as bright as they pretend to be)
@@BKCplaysPokemon It's 20% chance to freeze was never explored because of the freeze clause and wanting to use Ice Beam on other mons. The status clauses have only ever served to dumb down switches
also worth mentioning that more recently, many great players have been experimenting with jynx as a facilitator of lategame alakazam, and the combo has borne good results
ZOKURU OFFENCE
boo ya
@@cherryb0ng he said great players
@@pikminologueraisin2139
Ouch
@@pikminologueraisin2139 right right
imagine queuing into bkc in a meta without team preview. he knows your whole team before you even click a move. at least with team preview you know his team too
If you play gsc enough you can tell what things people are gonna have on what team
@@bobbymcfee2974 No BKC simply has the superpower to always know what your team is, don't try to get cocky and assume you have the same godly power
"boo GSC is all stall"
"boo GSC is too offensive"
"boo ban Jynx"
"Boo GSC Exists!"
“Boo my parents are getting divorced!”
Schrödinger's metagame
To be fair, GSC is ass
Exeggutor: Just got in on Curse Machamp, time to sub on ever...
Jynx: *Switches in*
Exeggutor: haha just kidding
YESS, GSC OU is my fav to listen to, I don't play it but it intrigues me so much.
Have the same with adv ou
Intrigue you how? Lol
@@JSB-2Z-2K it is interesting hearing about an old generation metagame of which I know very little about.
@@JSB-2Z-2K it’s the best gen
@@DantinozMC why don’t you play it then?
GSC OU is my favorite metagame (not counting randbats). Haven't played it extensively in the last year, but when I was last regularly active Jynx's rising popularity was causing some interesting ladder matches for sure.
Love seeing your gen 2 videos!
Back in the day, when stall was considered the meta to specialize with spikes because it was "useless" and slowpaced.
I learned alot about this and Jynx is one of my favorite Pokemon of all, so this was satisfying.
Thanks for such a great video!
34:05
I would argue your grievance isn't just not the fault of Jynx and I wouldn't even say it's the fault of the playerbase.
I would say that this is more a problem with how Pokemon is designed as a game.
Speaking as a versed competitive Pokemon player that has played monster collector RPG genre games outside of Pokemon, it's very fair to say Pokemon is very lacking in many control elements that make situations more luck rather than skill.
For example, one of my favorite video games of all both casually and competitively, Yo-Kai Watch, has all kinds of team setups where you can't make similar grievances. There are team setups you can make that can GUARANTEE powerful crit damage, GUARANTEE killing off opponents that got lucky with random damage rolls with only a smidgen of their HP left or even GUARANTEE attacks that can completely negate accuracy/evasion checks. Many strategies players make use of in competitive Yo-Kai Watch would be considered game breaking in the context of Pokemon due to how consistent the sheer wide variety of strategies are that have very weak equivalents in Pokemon.
Yo-Kai Watch is just one example, but monster collectors both older and newer than Pokemon have things like that such as Shin Megami Tensei, Dragon Quest Monsters and even Digimon.
With Jynx getting SpDef drops or Freeze status, that's just another example of this kind of thing because neither player has any control over that kind of thing like they would in another game of the same genre. All the games I listed above have no shortage of ways to practically guarantee debuffs or status conditions that are by comparison far stronger but the games also give players ways to get rid of them with little issue.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you can't really blame the players entirely when it's the fault of how the game is designed that LETS the player exploit an option that neither player has control over.
TLDR; Hate the game, not the player.
Wow, good to see VIL is still active. He gave me one of his best GSC teams back the day that he used to win some Smogon tournaments. I remember thinking it was weird that 5/6 pokemon had explosion. It was pretty unheard of to have that many pokemon packing boom back in 2004-2005. Needless to say that team was a force to be reckoned with.
Omg gsc content yesss
Hyped!
These new themes in the playlist? The music in this vid is killer
I constantly add new stuff to the playlist yeah
@@BKCplaysPokemon always blessing us🙌
@@notimpressedbyyourm4932 It's from Pkmn Mystery Dungeon
GSC OU feels like gen 8 OU back when wish port clef had 50% usage
Literally how? There’s no excessive pivoting nor is there wish at all.
@@dreadknight2439 you don’t need pivots in a game where bulky rest talk sets are everywhere. but that sort of slow pace is what i’m talking about.
i genuinely don’t see a resemblance, wishport meta was just keeping frail offensive mons alive with a dumbass pink blob that never died.
gsc is (usually) slow and methodical with plenty exceptions (machamp, heracross, nidoking etc.) with a team of mostly bulky mons with some setup sweepers and hazards/hazard control
Yo, any chance we could get an ADV Doubles OU vid? It seems like such a cool meta and it's on the RoA ladder this month!
ADV 1v1 was a ladder of the month,is such a cool meta, but didn’t get a video 😭😭😭
@@LRXC1 lowkey that statement biased
Good stuff as always. I’d love to get a vid on your thoughts concerning more niche picks like Piloswine, Heracross, and Misdreavus.
Yea I would love to see a Golem vid soon
Yay! A Jynx video! 🥰
I think the hatred for GSC meta just comes from an intolerance of anything being slow nowadays. And while it's not my favorite I'd much rather have it that the horrible power crept meta we have now. And too many legendaries in OU..
Besides if I wanted to play a fun meta with post physical/special split I'll just play Gen 5, Gen 4 (despite how stealth rocks ruins overall balance of the meta) and even Gen 6.
imo if there is a game where the powercreep isn't really a problem it's Pokémon
@@pikminologueraisin2139 yeah, the fact starmie is NU wasn't a case of it got powercrept by 200 mons, just it falling out of the meta for example
What is the problem with legendaries in ur metagame?
@@mangosteak There isn't anything wrong with a legendary as a meta staple, I mean Gen 2 has Raikou and Zapdos even ADV has Jirachi and Suicune, but when itt becomes flooded with them that other mons are justt worse it can make a meta boring.
@@acekun6493 Not really its power creeped, since its frailness caught up with it among other factors.
I always thought the best and easiest way to improve GSC is just ban one of Rest or Sleep Talk. Or limit each to one Pokemon per team. And limit Leftovers to one Pokemon per team!
The max EVs of Gen 2 make for a great metagame if Rest and Sleep Talk become much less prevalent. I like the idea of most Pokemon being able to take multiple hits, and be more capable mixed attackers. The offensive giga power creep of later gens, and more so the polarizing nature of offense and defense as to becoming more balanced, has become really off-putting and dissatisfying.
The central issue of Gen 2 OU's appeal is Rest-Talk, specifically because of Sleep Talk calling Rest. That's what enabled the "stall" play which is a lot of people's, including mine's, introduction to this metagame, and remains a theme throughout the viewing experience.
I love GSC Offense
Mr. E really hit em with the mono-sex team featuring Jynx.
I really like jynx as an offensive Juggernaut only hindered by Steel types
lmao imagine not having a freeze clause
... most modern metas?
why would you need one? freeze can’t be reliably spammed like sleep can
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 I just dont see a downside to having one. its indeed a rare occurance, but whenever it happens its pretty much gg and often its completely unintentional as well
@@Erasuma how would you enforce it? you can’t go for a potential freeze move if a pokemon is frozen? you can but the freeze doesn’t proc? i just don’t see the need for it tbh in anything after RBY
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 yeah its been in older games with which freezes wont proc after u have already frozen something
Gen 2 may not be "all stall" buts its definitely the defining play style as seen when Offensive rose in response to it yet stall is still a Pillar of the Meta game.
If you aint first, youre last
Somewhat related question, how in the world is snorlax not banned?
When discussing bans, you're a huge proponent of the idea that a pokemon doesn't need to ohko everything or be unkillable to be banworthy, but rather have a suffocating hold on both teambuilding and gameplay. And lax fits both. Any other generation, and something like it would be gone in a heartbeat. So why is it that in gsc we say "it's okay to need 2 electrics with the inaccurate thunder, and also an explosion or 2, AND our own snorlax, *just* to handle the opponent's?"
I get that there aren't many pokemon in the game, but getting rid of lax would allow so much more diversity. Sure, other pokemon would seem unstoppable, but we haven't tried it in a meta where that's the case. There can be other checks to the electrics, but we have no reason to try because of the one size fits all solution in lax.
Maybe I'm just inexperienced, but anything that's literally *required* for a good team seems a little too oppressive.
it's been tried before. gsc with lax has a lot more diversity than the laxless variant. it actually does fulfill the full stall stereotype because it's too difficult to otherwise reasonably answer offensive pokes without the catch-all that lax provides. if this were a modern metagame with a modern playerbase, after you nixed lax you'd follow with zapdos (at bare minimum) and see what else happens...but in such an old metagame, it's not feasible (especially since the idea of banning anything but the most extreme pokemon from ou used to be very frowned upon in the first 3 gens, before suspect testing)
Yeah, its hard to fathom banning Jynx when a pokemon that is quite literally the topmost S-rank uber remains somehow (for the most part) unquestionably OU.
@@BKCplaysPokemon That makes sense. It's a shame the meta is so static in the viable options, since there are so many pokes that are just invalidated. I guess I'll just need to get into other tiers, too
Off topic but I kinda just need toget this off my chest: I think I'll quit competitive Pokémon once and for all. I'm so frustrated, like I've been playing competitive since 2011 now and I've always been really bad. I'm the laughing stock of my friend group and the highest elo I can get on showdown is around 1300 (on a good day), never made it last 1400 and never will. And then to have people who play for a few months telling me I need to practice more, is just disheartening. I love your videos and the concept of competitive battling, but I think I'll never get into it, or never eben be mediocre at it.
I don't know the full extent of your situation but the point of playing pokemon is to enjoy it. chasing certain standards of being "good" isn't worth it if it stresses you out and makes you unhappy. personally, I would completely block out what others are saying and do whatever you like. all the best. (ps playing well or whatever comes a lot more easily and naturally when you are taking it easy and having fun)
If you haven't already I would also recommend you check out Jamvad's RUclips channel before deciding to quit, he has some really good videos where he gives tips to improve both your mindset and playing ability which have personally helped me when a ton when I felt the same as you. Best of luck!
The Pokemon battle is played before you ever load up a match. It's not for the type of person who doesn't enjoy studying team matchups, lines, and movesets, and most imprtantly: being creative. There is a massive barrier to entry, and it sounds like the reason you have not been finding success despite all of your time with the simulator is: you have not hurdled the wall. Some people (like you mentioned) are intuitive with the skills revolving around Pokemon, so they may pass the knowledge barrier quickly. I don't know if you just want your frustration validated, but it is definitely true that not everyone is cut out for it. Some people would think this is torture, while others could get lost in their minds for hours and feel nothing short of energized coming out the other end.
@@ninezerotwo1778 have you played random battle formats?
@@ninezerotwo1778 personally I get frustrated when I try being creative and it doesn't pan out. Not that it's anyone's fault but my own but it still makes me wanna walk away. I'll have an idea, like "what if I set up aurora veil and switch in a weakness policy shell smash cloyster, it'll have skyrocketed stats in no time and the veil will make up for its lowered defences.". Naah, gets yeeted anyway in a turn or two by zeraora with plasma fists or something effortless.
You learn what ideas are bad but sometimes you feel like creativity is stifled by sheer power.
nice video!
I was wondering, would you be willing to cover gen 2 ubers at some point?
A tier rarely talked about, i feel.
Keep up the good work :)
isn’t that tier just celebi, ho-oh,, mew, mew 2, lugia and then boom snorlax?
@@fulltimeslackerii8229 Probably, but doesn't a few other pokemons feature? Ttar?
GSC is all stall nothing but Rest/Sleep Talk and leftovers. Very few wallbreakers.
Am I doing this right?
PMD music!
what do you think of big yellow's pokémon content ?
I watch/queue gen 2 battles all the time.
Legit never see anyone use Jynx.
The anti-meta becomes the meta
im wondering if tentacruel is gonna be ou too at some point
doubtful
I see Slavic gods names, u slavic by chance?
Hes czech
You lied about no more ou vids tf
this isn’t DPP Ubers
You spoil me
only boomers dislike Jynx
I completely disagree with your point on the addition of the freeze clause. If it was removed Ice would be considered a better defensive type and TriAttack would get a lot of value. Refusal to adapt should never be an excuse.
tri attack was literally never used before freeze clause was implemented
Tri attack 😂😂
@@BKCplaysPokemon What do you mean? Freeze clause was in the competitive ruleset since before GSC existed. The game has barely had any modern interpretation without gameplay limiting rulesets devised on the basis of RNG reduction. It was also not used much early on because it didn't status normal Pokemon (not that the showdown scene even knew that until more recently, which serves to show that the entire community aren't as bright as they pretend to be)
tri attack was literally never used because it is an outclassed attack (a worse double-edge almost always) only used by middling to bad pokemon
@@BKCplaysPokemon It's 20% chance to freeze was never explored because of the freeze clause and wanting to use Ice Beam on other mons. The status clauses have only ever served to dumb down switches